Menteri Koordinator Bidang Kemaritiman dan Investasi, Luhut Binsar Pandjaitan menyoroti jumlah investasi hulu minyak dan gas bumi (migas) yang macet dalam 30 tahun terakhir. Menurut Luhut, hal itu imbas dari peraturan atau regulasi yang kurang mendukung.
Luhut mengaku, pihaknya telah membentuk satuan tugas (satgas) sektor migas untuk menginvestigasi dan menangani permasalahan pada sektor ini. Luhut pun telah melaporkan hasil kerja satgas di bawah wewenangnya itu kepada Presiden Joko Widodo (Jokowi) dan presiden terpilih, Prabowo Subianto.
Melalui satgas sektor migas yang telah dibentuk tersebut, maka regulasi-regulasi yang bermasalah akan segera diperbaiki. Dengan demikian, diharapkan sektor migas RI menjadi lebih menarik bagi para investor global.
Luhut mengaku, pihaknya telah membentuk satuan tugas (satgas) sektor migas untuk menginvestigasi dan menangani permasalahan pada sektor ini. Luhut pun telah melaporkan hasil kerja satgas di bawah wewenangnya itu kepada Presiden Joko Widodo (Jokowi) dan presiden terpilih, Prabowo Subianto.
Melalui satgas sektor migas yang telah dibentuk tersebut, maka regulasi-regulasi yang bermasalah akan segera diperbaiki. Dengan demikian, diharapkan sektor migas RI menjadi lebih menarik bagi para investor global.
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TVTranscript
00:00In Indonesia, the economy is not just about money, but also about the people.
00:21Hello viewers, how are you today?
00:23Back again with me, Prasetya Wibowo in the Market Review program,
00:27which will address the issue of economic movement in Indonesia.
00:29And this time, we will discuss from the Hulumigas Indonesia sector,
00:32what is the realisation of its investment,
00:34and what problems still surround the Begas industry in the water.
00:39Let's start the Market Review.
00:51The Minister of Maritime Affairs and Investment said that
00:54Hulumigas' investment is minimal in the last three decades,
00:58one of which is due to the lack of support from the government.
01:02For this reason, Luhut admitted that he has coordinated with the President
01:05and the President-elect to address the issue of Hulumigas' investment.
01:13The Minister of Maritime Affairs and Investment, Luhut Bin Sar Panjaitan,
01:17said that Hulumigas' investment and land gas investment
01:20are relatively minimal in the last 30 years.
01:24Luhut said that Hulumigas' investment is minimal
01:26due to the lack of support from the government.
01:30Luhut also said that he has formed a task force in Kemenko Marfes
01:34to identify the issue of energy security,
01:36including reducing the pressure on the country's fiscal ability.
01:40Luhut also violated the rules of the Ministry of Finance,
01:42which is currently hindering Hulumigas' investment.
01:56We have 11 things that we have to fix.
01:58And I reported to the President and the President-elect,
02:01this is the issue that we have to address.
02:04So I told also our colleague from the Minister of Finance,
02:11something wrong with you guys.
02:1430 years no investment, must be something wrong with the regulation.
02:18We have to change or fix the regulation, harmonize this regulation.
02:23With this condition, Luhut asked the Ministry of Finance
02:26to review the fiscal policy regarding Hulumigas' investment sector
02:30that has been made so far.
02:33Luhut also asked state-owned enterprises in the energy sector,
02:37such as PT Pertamina Persero, to continue expanding abroad.
02:52Yes, Prime Minister, to discuss our topic this time,
02:54the optimization of potential and support for Hulumigas' investment.
02:58We have been connected via Zoom,
03:00together with Mr. Komedi Notonegoro,
03:02Director Executive Reform Minor Institute,
03:04and also Mr. Mose Rizal,
03:06Chairman of the Investment Committee of Asper Migas.
03:09Hello, good morning, Mr. Komedi.
03:11Good morning, Mr. Pras.
03:13How are you?
03:14Alhamdulillah, I'm fine.
03:16Thank you. How are you, Mr. Mose? Good morning.
03:19Good morning, Mr. Pras.
03:21Thank you for your time.
03:23This is the data of SKK Migas.
03:25If we can start by noting that Hulumigas' investment
03:29in the first semester this year has reached US$5.6 billion.
03:34From Asper Migas' own notes,
03:36how is it, if we look at the implementation earlier,
03:39also related to the investment of Hulumigas' activities in the water?
03:44Yes, indeed, if it can be said,
03:47the data from SKK Migas is much more accurate.
03:50Because every year they do a work program in budget,
03:53and from there it is clear the value of the next year's program,
03:57what they will invest and so on.
04:01So the data, I don't know.
04:03We have no doubt about the data.
04:05But what I have to see,
04:08we see who is investing.
04:11Because if we look at our old industry,
04:1670% of our Migas production,
04:19especially in oil,
04:2170% of oil production is held by Pertamina.
04:2430% for gas is held by Pertamina.
04:28Who invests in this?
04:30The increase in investment is also possible from us,
04:35from BUMN or the government.
04:40That's what we have to see.
04:43Well, it doesn't reflect how the condition of investment,
04:48especially in Migas, especially in Indonesia.
04:51Because we have seen a lot of changes globally.
04:58We first see it globally,
05:00from the geopolitical side, from the energy transition side.
05:03We see many IOCs,
05:06IOCs that have returned to their cages.
05:09Why? Because the risk is smaller,
05:12it is easier to find funding,
05:15and they also see more potential locations,
05:21more potential,
05:23and also those that are not as mature as Indonesia.
05:26In Indonesia, our Migas oil is quite mature,
05:28so it has naturally declined.
05:32They see what is easier.
05:35Why? Because the report from the IAEA,
05:38just this year,
05:41shows that the demand for oil, Migas oil and gas,
05:47will peak in 2029.
05:50So all of this, they will,
05:52it means they have to make the most of the production,
05:59until later in 2029.
06:01Because in 2029, it will start to flatten,
06:04and it will start to decline.
06:06So they are looking for easier ones.
06:11That's the reality that we are facing now.
06:14Okay, okay.
06:15From the River Miner Institute, what do you think, Mr. Khomeini?
06:18You see, when it comes to investment,
06:20in the first semester, we are already at 75% of the target.
06:23If earlier, Asper Migas criticized,
06:25actually, who is the investor?
06:27Then, what about the target,
06:29that the position of Migas itself,
06:31will reach its peak in 2029?
06:35From your point of view, what do you think?
06:37Yes, as Mr. Moshe said earlier,
06:39in the investment of Migas oil and gas,
06:42there are some things that,
06:44may not have been conveyed to the public yet.
06:49It's a bit different from manufacturing.
06:52If in Migas oil and gas,
06:54today's investment does not reflect
06:56what can be harvested in the immediate time.
06:59Maybe in the next 4-5 years,
07:02there will be results.
07:04But in terms of numbers, I think,
07:06I agree with Mr. Moshe,
07:08because most of the reserves and production
07:10are already in BUMN.
07:12So, when there is an increase,
07:14it does not always become an indicator.
07:16It's not that it doesn't happen,
07:18but it doesn't always become an indicator
07:20that our investment cycle is improving.
07:22It doesn't always represent that.
07:24Because it could be that later,
07:26BUMN is instructed to join
07:28in projects that are said to be
07:30national projects.
07:33So, for example,
07:35for the road,
07:37but there is also the Pertamina side.
07:39It could be in several blocks
07:41that also have to run,
07:43but there is also Pertamina there.
07:45It means that it is the most ideal indicator
07:48when other actors,
07:51which Mr. Moshe mentioned earlier,
07:53as a return to the cage,
07:54some of them contribute to us again.
07:56This does not reduce the meaning
07:58of friends in Pertamina or BUMN,
08:00not at all.
08:02But the nature of the Migas company
08:04needs collaboration.
08:06So it means that the technology is high,
08:08the capital is large,
08:10and it also needs a certain spectrum.
08:12It means that it is already common
08:14if it is a collaboration.
08:16So if there is no collaboration,
08:18this is what becomes the indicator.
08:20I think there are many variables,
08:22both technical, business, and non-business.
08:25We have more non-business problems.
08:28So I often convey to the public,
08:30to media friends too,
08:32that friends in K3S,
08:34including friends in Asper Migas,
08:36are now more busy managing permits
08:38than busy looking for oil and gas themselves.
08:41And the problem is in the government.
08:44And earlier it was said at the delivery,
08:46Mr. LPP delivered a critique like that.
08:49In my opinion,
08:51maybe it's better to be late
08:53than not at all.
08:54Unfortunately, at the end,
08:56there is, let's say,
08:58the end of the government.
09:01But it's better to be late
09:03than not at all
09:05on the government's table.
09:07At first, it was Mr. Prasit.
09:09Earlier it was mentioned,
09:11even communication has been blocked
09:13between the current government
09:15and will not come to find a solution
09:17from the national Migas industry.
09:19But okay, it's better to be late
09:21than not at all.
09:23But in your opinion,
09:25will it produce a quick decision
09:27if we talk about Migas investment
09:29than not at all?
09:30While earlier you said, Mr. Komedi,
09:32friends from Migas experts
09:33and maybe other Migas entrepreneurs
09:35are still stuck with the permit issue.
09:37Yes, it means we need a perspective.
09:40The key is leadership.
09:43We can't think of it
09:45only in a year's budget
09:47or even a government agency or a regime
09:50because it's only five years.
09:52So, Mr. Prabowo can't,
09:54with my perspective,
09:56my investment later
09:58is not like that.
10:00You have to think like a citizen.
10:02Okay, I am the investor,
10:04I am the infrastructure,
10:06I am in charge of everything.
10:07I don't know who will be in charge later,
10:09whoever the president is,
10:10I don't care.
10:11Our concern is as a nation.
10:13If we have a president like that,
10:15this will work.
10:16But if the president is only important
10:18in the government period,
10:20especially more specifically in a certain budget year,
10:23it probably won't work.
10:25The Ministry of Finance
10:27will stick to their GPI.
10:29Their GPI will get the state's acceptance,
10:32both tax and non-tax,
10:34as much as possible,
10:35according to the target.
10:36Meanwhile,
10:37friends in Asper Migas,
10:38such as Mas Mosi and K3S,
10:40are contradictory or maybe
10:42relatively opposed to the GPI.
10:45Because what is asked in the condition
10:47of a major field,
10:48it must be incentivized.
10:50Because if we choose that,
10:52do we have production or not at all?
10:54Because the economy of the project is starting to decline.
10:56Unlike manufacturing,
10:58it's like if we take care of people
11:00who are getting older,
11:02with those who are still young,
11:04the cost of care is higher
11:06for those who are getting older.
11:08Our field is getting older.
11:10Medicines, vitamins,
11:12food must be fed,
11:13only then can it perform.
11:15Conditions like that,
11:16we can't avoid it.
11:18And I think our perspective
11:20must be the same.
11:21The choice is then,
11:23why do we take care of old fields?
11:26Do you want to choose to take care of it
11:28so that there is production or not at all?
11:30We have been faced with that choice.
11:32If we want to find new fields,
11:35like what Mas Mosi said earlier,
11:37we need to look at exploration.
11:39Exploration is long.
11:41The process is long.
11:43After finding it, it is still long
11:45towards exploitation.
11:47Often, we are
11:49most of the time,
11:51we like instant food.
11:53So, we buy instant food.
11:55We also buy instant vehicles.
11:57We don't want to go to public transportation.
12:01Moreover, we need to understand
12:03the business structure
12:05in a long-term way.
12:07This is what must be understood
12:09to everyone, I think.
12:11What kind of optimization
12:13is expected from you,
12:15USA Amigas actors?
12:17Next, Mas Mosi,
12:19then Mas Kembali,
12:21we will pause for a moment.
12:23And, Mr. Mirsa,
12:25make sure you are still with us.
12:39Thank you for still joining us
12:41in Market Review.
12:43Next, we will present data for you
12:45on USA Amigas in Indonesia.
12:47We will discuss the movement
12:49from 2017 to 2023.
12:53As you can see on the screen,
12:55in 2017,
12:57US$11.04 billion
12:59and then
13:01US$12.69 billion
13:03in 2018,
13:05and then
13:07US$14.71 billion
13:09in 2021.
13:11There is a slight decrease in 2022,
13:13but it rose again in 2023
13:15to US$15.6 billion.
13:19Next, the value of investment
13:21from four major Amigas projects in Indonesia
13:23from 2022 to
13:252027.
13:27There is a block of Masela,
13:29around US$297 trillion,
13:31Tangguh Train 3,
13:33US$133.5 trillion,
13:35Indonesia Deep Water Development,
13:37US$104.7 trillion,
13:39and Jambaran Tiung Biru,
13:41which is around US$1.2 trillion.
13:43We will continue our discussion
13:45with Mr. Mose,
13:47and Mr. Komeidi Nonoto-Negoro.
13:49Mr. Mose,
13:51if we talk about some problems
13:53or optimizations
13:55that we want to get,
13:57even though Mr. Komeidi
13:59has already emphasized it,
14:01how do you see
14:03the potential or
14:05optimizations that can be done
14:07as soon as the government
14:09can do it?
14:11Yes, we still have to move fast.
14:13That's clear.
14:15I agree 100% with what
14:17Mr. Komeidi said.
14:19One is collaboration.
14:21Pertamina cannot do it alone.
14:23Managing so many fields
14:25cannot be done alone.
14:27They must have partners.
14:29They must have equity partners
14:31there too.
14:33So, those who can help
14:35from the technology side and capital side.
14:37Second,
14:39I agree with Mr. Komeidi.
14:41We mostly deal with
14:43non-technical permits.
14:45People who invest here
14:47focus on production,
14:49not on permits,
14:51not on non-technical things.
14:53So, let me give you an example.
14:55If we want to build a house,
14:57let's say we rent a contractor.
14:59The one who manages the permits,
15:01the one who clears the land,
15:03who is responsible for that?
15:05The one who owns the house.
15:07Of course, the one who owns the house.
15:09If we look at K3S,
15:11the title is K3S,
15:13Contractor, Collaboration Contractor.
15:15So, they are contractors.
15:17Who owns the land,
15:19who owns the assets? The government.
15:21So, who should clear the permits
15:23and clear the land? The government.
15:25And it's already in the
15:27MIGAS law.
15:29So, that is,
15:31if it can be said,
15:33the government, like in the past,
15:35with the land, permits,
15:37and everything,
15:39is responsible for the government,
15:41it is the biggest non-fiscal incentive
15:43that can be given by the government
15:45to K3S.
15:47So, with ease,
15:49so that K3S can focus on
15:51non-technical things,
15:53to produce
15:55our MIGAS reserves.
15:57One more thing is
15:59in 2001,
16:01when the MIGAS law came out,
16:03in 2005, Pertamina IP was established,
16:05where all the land in Indonesia
16:07was handed over to Pertamina.
16:09Pertamina holds,
16:11for only Pertamina IP,
16:13holds 114 thousand
16:15square kilometers.
16:17From 114 thousand square kilometers,
16:19the production is
16:21around 70 thousand
16:23barrels per day.
16:25So, we see
16:27it is very ineffective.
16:29Why? Because it is possible
16:31that 80% of the land
16:35is not used.
16:37Well, our advice
16:39from MIGAS is
16:41how if the land that is not
16:43operated by Pertamina
16:45is returned to the government,
16:47not KSO,
16:49KSO is also very uninteresting.
16:51Return the government, offered as PSC.
16:53What are the advantages there?
16:55There is a lot of data,
16:57there is a lot of data,
16:59so there is a lot of data,
17:01and it can be accelerated,
17:03offered, will be much more interesting.
17:05Pertamina, if you still want to hold
17:07PI there,
17:09please, no problem,
17:11later I will make the rules.
17:13But at least it can be offered
17:15with what? With a PSC contract,
17:17which is much more interesting,
17:19not with KSO.
17:21Now, where does Pertamina focus?
17:23Focus on giant fields.
17:25Like the global NOC now,
17:27in the world, Aramco,
17:29Brazil, Thailand,
17:31and so on, Petronas.
17:33Focus on
17:35the ones with far greater potential.
17:37These small ones, just return it to the government.
17:39Okay, okay.
17:41That can accelerate
17:43the production earlier.
17:45Mas Mosi, if we look at the current conditions,
17:47this is also interesting, we go to Mr. Komedi.
17:49The government has also formed a task force
17:51to win the investment of Hulu MIGAS.
17:53What tasks do you think
17:55will be included as housework
17:57for Satgas? If earlier,
17:59there were some problems that
18:01were actually acknowledged by
18:03Mas Mosi, related to the issue of
18:05permits, then
18:07collaboration that must be tighter.
18:09Maybe Pertamina is competing with other companies.
18:11What is it like?
18:13Yes, if it's about what needs to be done,
18:15almost every year,
18:17complaints have reached
18:19the government table.
18:21I think the place of Mas Mosi in Asper MIGAS,
18:23the IPA friends,
18:25every year the theme is the same,
18:27complaining about the issue of permits,
18:29then where are the rules.
18:31I think it's very detailed.
18:33Maybe this year's document
18:35is just a replacement for the one from last year.
18:37I'm sure it's already
18:39reached the president's table, the minister,
18:41and the minister of technical affairs.
18:43It means that what needs to be done
18:45is already very, very detailed.
18:47Just run it.
18:49In my opinion, when this is formed,
18:51it actually indicates
18:53the effectiveness of
18:55existing ministries and subcontractors.
18:57So, we usually
18:59form a lot of subcontractors and so on.
19:01And it's also
19:03costly. It means
19:05there must be additional costs.
19:07So, the existing ministries
19:09are still there.
19:11This is what causes, I think, the investment
19:13to become a high-cost investment,
19:15which we are not quite interested in.
19:17Actually, the key word
19:19that makes it expensive
19:21is actually in the government itself.
19:23So, as I said earlier,
19:25if we have started investment,
19:27let's say an agreement with the government,
19:29then we have started operating,
19:31there are almost
19:33300 to 400 permits
19:35that must involve 17 ministries and subcontractors.
19:37And this is costly.
19:39So, for example,
19:41if you want to have this contract,
19:43then
19:47let's say
19:51it's already running.
19:53The price is already running
19:55with a few,
19:57let's say,
19:59loan givers.
20:01The price is already calculated.
20:03If the permit is late,
20:05the cost of the flowers that must be paid
20:07is automatically higher.
20:09This is what the government needs to realize.
20:11So, if you want today,
20:13let's say you have explored in one block,
20:15then you still have to
20:17pass the permit,
20:19then the flowers
20:21are already running.
20:23Well, this is what the government needs to realize.
20:25If today, let's say it's approved
20:27with let's say K3S,
20:29there are already costs
20:31that must be borne by K3S.
20:33The longer these permits are completed,
20:35the more expensive
20:37the investment is.
20:39So, let's say
20:41you have to manage environmental permits at KLHK,
20:43the permits are not free
20:45in the whole market.
20:47Is there any undertable money there?
20:49Let's say there is none.
20:51Let's say it's free.
20:53If you want to go to the area
20:55and so on, you need money for transportation.
20:57And so on.
20:59Simple logic, actually.
21:01Let's say we don't talk,
21:03let's say there is a loan giver,
21:05it's been too late, four years,
21:07you have to pay for the loan flowers,
21:09it's already calculated.
21:11Meanwhile, in our neighboring countries,
21:13for example, like Thailand,
21:15like Singapore,
21:17they can be very simple,
21:19let's say when you want to say
21:21Permit A, like that.
21:23Their government can already state,
21:25this will be completed in the next six months.
21:27More or less like that.
21:29So, friends,
21:31let's say the risk,
21:33the IRR is very clear.
21:35So much, the cost is so much,
21:37then the value of my eco-economic project is so much.
21:39Well, in Indonesia,
21:41the government never dared to state,
21:43how long will this be completed, sir, ma'am.
21:45It never existed.
21:47That number came out.
21:49If it doesn't exist, the risk will increase.
21:51Because then,
21:53what if it's six months?
21:55What if it's a year? What if it's two years?
21:57What if it's four years? And so on.
21:59So, there are a lot of questions there.
22:01I think that's the problem.
22:03This is also interesting,
22:05if the government also has a plan,
22:07as a result, to attract investors,
22:09whether this will be sweetened or not,
22:11we will discuss in the next segment.
22:13We will be back in a moment.
22:15And, viewers, we will be back soon,
22:17with the next conversation.
22:33Yes, our conversation is getting more and more interesting,
22:35with Mas Mosy Rijal,
22:37and Mr. Komedi Notonegoro.
22:39Well, Mas Mosy, this is interesting,
22:41if the government, especially the Ministry of Finance,
22:43will have a plan as a result,
22:45to attract investors in Hulumiga,
22:47what do you think?
22:49Sweetener only, or is this something
22:51that is expected?
22:53Okay. Let's talk about non-fiscal first,
22:55what I said earlier.
22:59Non-fiscal incentives are
23:01permits and
23:03land acquisition,
23:05it must be the government
23:07who is responsible, not K3S.
23:09That's clear. Non-technical,
23:11it's the government's business,
23:13technical, it's our business.
23:15And, for example,
23:17in Vietnam,
23:19Vietnam is a special place,
23:21where all land areas
23:23are owned by the government,
23:25owned by the country.
23:27So, they go to the investor,
23:29they give one package.
23:31The land, plus the permit,
23:33not just in the gas industry,
23:35in any industry.
23:37So, it's convenient,
23:39they come with only money,
23:41expertise, technology, and so on,
23:43they can work right away.
23:45There is a process,
23:47but it's much easier than us.
23:49We still have a lot of
23:51self-sector, from the center,
23:53from the government itself,
23:55a lot of self-sector.
23:57Permits, the so-called permits,
23:59become recommendations.
24:01Actually, it's the same.
24:03Recommendations are the same as permits.
24:05There is a one-door permit.
24:07Yes, when it's opened,
24:09there are a lot of media.
24:11The process is the same.
24:13That's what must be compensated.
24:15That's non-fiscal.
24:17Fiscal, that's it.
24:19We see our neighboring countries
24:21looking for investors too.
24:23They also give incentives
24:25and convenience too.
24:27Why?
24:29Because the capital allocated
24:31in the MIGAS sector,
24:33for example in Southeast Asia,
24:35is getting smaller and smaller.
24:39Less than probably 3%
24:41of the total capital
24:45for new oil and gas
24:47globally.
24:49So,
24:51those who need
24:53investment are still the same,
24:55but those who give investment
24:57are getting less.
24:59So, we have to see now,
25:01our investor profile has started
25:03to change.
25:05The IOC is back in the cage.
25:07We have to see
25:09new investors.
25:11New entrants.
25:13While if we look at the data,
25:15new entrants M&A investment,
25:17M&A data,
25:19for new entrants,
25:21we are getting smaller and smaller.
25:23M&A is now less than 40%.
25:25So, in other words,
25:27what was pumped out
25:29is only less than 40%
25:31for new entrants to buy
25:33and enter Indonesia.
25:35This has to be changed.
25:37How do we guide new entrants?
25:39And these new entrants
25:41are not necessarily
25:43those who are already passive in oil and gas.
25:45Sometimes there are companies
25:47like I once helped
25:49a company from Kuwait,
25:51we make them passive in oil and gas,
25:53but as a property company,
25:55who wants to acquire
25:57oil and gas, where? In Russia.
25:59So, things like that,
26:01we have to shift
26:03how we sell
26:05assets,
26:07not assets,
26:09I mean, the potential of our MIGAS
26:11to attract investors.
26:13Okay.
26:15Lastly, I want to ask you,
26:17what is your projection
26:19for the future of our MIGAS industry
26:21with the various challenges
26:23that Mr. Mose has mentioned,
26:25which may not be much different
26:27from year to year,
26:29can it be a short solution?
26:31Yes, hopefully with the leadership
26:33of Mr. Prabowo as president,
26:35there will be changes.
26:37I hope so.
26:39Because, as Mr. Mose said,
26:41what is needed more
26:43is for non-technical matters,
26:45actually, the problem of
26:47tax exemption and so on.
26:49I often say,
26:51fiscal incentives often have no benefit
26:53when non-technical problems
26:55are not solved.
26:57So, Mr. Mose, maybe if you are given a choice,
26:59you are given a tax exemption incentive
27:01within a certain duration,
27:03or the permits are borne by the government from the beginning.
27:05I think the second option will be chosen.
27:07Because it is much more expensive
27:09than just the fiscal incentive
27:11in the process,
27:13it is not simple,
27:15the red carpet is the incentive.
27:17Okay.
27:19Tax exemption and so on.
27:21This is often the case when you get an incentive,
27:23as if it is already a package
27:25and it is easy.
27:27But, in total,
27:29this is a common problem.
27:31Earlier, Mr. Mose often said that
27:33this is PSC, Production Sharing Contract.
27:35The owner of the house,
27:37the one who has the permit,
27:39the one who has the permit, is the state or the government.
27:41So, the mindset must be planted.
27:43So, it means,
27:45the one who wants to bother to prepare the permit,
27:47prepare other things,
27:49is the one who has the incentive.
27:51The one who is the IO,
27:53the one who is the entertainment,
27:55and so on, just come and
27:57crowd the incentive.
27:59Like Mr. Mose came, put the money,
28:01the investment is there,
28:03but the one who prepares the apparatus,
28:05the permit, and so on, is the one who has the incentive.
28:07Who has the incentive in PSC?
28:09The one who has the incentive is the Indonesian government
28:11I think that's it.
28:13So, the problem that needs to be solved
28:15immediately is the non-business one.
28:17How to integrate the position to the region,
28:19between the ministries,
28:21which has been said earlier,
28:23is no longer egosectoral,
28:25to be able to support the work of the national gas industry in the future.
28:27Mr. Mose, thank you very much for the time and sharing
28:29that you have delivered.
28:31Mr. Komedi, thank you for the insight that you have delivered
28:33to the audience today.
28:35Congratulations on continuing your activities again.
28:37Stay healthy.