Back To The Territories #04 Kevin Sullivan Florida Part 2

Samuel Fly

When Eddie Graham took control of pro wrestling in the state of Florida from Cowboy Luttrel, one of the most significant developments in wrestling history was being put in place. Graham would go on to make Florida a premiere breeding ground for talent and future bookers alike. His mastery and genius are universally recognized.  Join Jim Cornette and Kevin Sullivan, a product of Eddie Graham’s genius and a booker that learned at his feet. Kevin worked in Florida as a top heel and then as a booker. But more importantly to this discussion, Kevin was close to Eddie the man. Eddie confided in Kevin, sometimes before even his own son Mike, placing a strain on Kevin and Mike’s friendship.  We will take you back into the glory days of Florida, from the birth of The “American Dream,” to the Jack Brisco/Dory Funk Jr feud. This is your ticket inside Eddie Graham’s legendary territory during its fiery NWA reign. Hop in with Corny and Kevin and head Back to the Territories!  00:00 The Legacy of Championship Wrestling from Florida 01:42 Introduction by Jim Cornette 02:21 Kevin Sullivan on Eddie Graham's Influence 03:25 Eddie Graham's Attention to Detail 06:35 Eddie Graham's Booking Philosophy 13:03 Eddie Graham's Civic Engagement 16:08 Eddie Graham's Relationship with His Son Mike 30:12 Eddie Graham's Early Career and Influence 50:59 Promoter Strategies and Risks 52:19 The Blade Job Incident 54:04 Television Production in Wrestling 55:54 Gordon Soley's Influence 58:34 The Florida Wrestling Scene 01:07:12 The Briscoe and Funk Rivalry 01:16:07 Dusty Rhodes' Rise to Stardom 01:22:26 Eddie Graham's Booking Genius 01:24:35 Wrestling's Big Money Era 01:33:10 Unification Matches and Cross-Promotions 01:40:24 The Blood Stopped: A Wrestling Anecdote 01:40:40 Jimmy's Early Wrestling Days 01:41:20 Taking the Book: A New Role 01:41:44 The 80s Wrestling Scene 01:43:25 The Power of TBS and Tommy Rich 01:45:06 The Great American Bash 86 01:45:57 Eddie Graham's Controversial Death 01:52:35 The Devil Angle and MTV Influence 02:02:53 Wrestling in the Bahamas: A Dangerous Game 02:13:25 The Legacy of Eddie Graham 02:18:34 Reflections on Wrestling Legends 02:24:17 The Future of Florida Wrestling

Transcript

00:00:00It's not like Dusty's, but you remember when Steiner turned babyface?

00:00:03The people wanted him to be babyface, okay?

00:00:06It got to be that everything that Eddie orchestrated was, like you said,

00:00:11the people demanding him to be babyface.

00:00:13I'd never seen anything like it in my life.

00:00:16But now he goes through with Jack Briscoe on TV.

00:00:20They did that thing on TV.

00:00:21That's right. Time limit draw.

00:00:23He goes to the time limit draw with the golden child, right?

00:00:27And then Gary gets involved in it.

00:00:30You know what I'm saying?

00:00:30That was Gary pushing him around.

00:00:32And then they got Mike came out and Dusty saved Mike

00:00:38because Paxon went to go to do the chop and Dusty jumped in front of Mike and Paxon chopped him.

00:00:44Sacrificed himself.

00:00:45You got it. You got it.

00:00:46Yeah. Dusty loved that too.

00:00:47He used that spot for years after. I loved it.

00:00:49And you know what was crazy about it?

00:00:51You know, we all know Dust, right?

00:00:54And I love him.

00:00:55But you know the stories he'll tell you about people hawking tickets,

00:00:59selling, scalping tickets in Miami and every place around?

00:01:02That was true. I saw it.

00:01:04Everything was sold out.

00:01:07This is 74, right?

00:01:09Yeah.

00:01:10This is 74.

00:01:12I saw people selling tickets for $200, buying tickets in 74.

00:01:19He was so over.

00:01:21I mean, it was, he was like a rock star.

00:01:25But he had, you know, I always mention, you know, there's only a few great managers.

00:01:31Of course, you're one of them and Gary.

00:01:33Gary was fantastic.

00:01:34Gary was fantastic.

00:01:36And with the foreign menace, Paxong Nam, the evil Paxong Nam.

00:01:40We're just leaving Vietnam with our ass kicked, right?

00:01:43And now they were hot.

00:01:44Big national embarrassment.

00:01:46Here's this giant.

00:01:47Paxong Nam.

00:01:49Vietnamese with the glandular disease and a huge face.

00:01:53And that's what, Dusty didn't fit in with Gary's guys also

00:01:57because Gary had the Paxongs and the Kabukis and the foreign menaces and the real bad guys.

00:02:02And then here comes Dusty Rhodes.

00:02:03You haven't any of this.

00:02:04Psychedelic super top, baby.

00:02:06Yeah.

00:02:06And it didn't fit anyway.

00:02:07And Dusty was also nobody.

00:02:09None of Gary's guys usually did their own talking.

00:02:12And then Dusty comes and starts doing the promo.

00:02:14So it was almost made.

00:02:15He doesn't fit.

00:02:16And the people are screaming, this doesn't fit.

00:02:18This doesn't fit.

00:02:19He's the American dream and he's tagging partners with a Vietnamese guy.

00:02:24But the thing about Paxong that everybody forgets, I'm sure you've seen the tapes, Jimmy.

00:02:30You know, we've seen guys like Tanaka, Toro Tanaka break the bricks.

00:02:34Yeah.

00:02:35He was breaking stones.

00:02:37He was a legit deal.

00:02:38You know, like a river stone?

00:02:39Yeah.

00:02:40He'd break that in half.

00:02:42So people bought in that he was Paxong Nam, you know what I mean?

00:02:47And that angle, actually, that angle ended my run because Mike went with Dusty and I went off into New York, you know what I mean?

00:02:57And you went.

00:02:58Yeah.

00:02:58And I went.

00:02:59I went.

00:02:59But now, and I know so much of it was Dusty's and T.C. Lee, the ditch digger that, you know, he worked with.

00:03:05T.C. Lee was a real person, at least Dusty says.

00:03:08And his father really was a plumber.

00:03:09But the promos were Dusty's.

00:03:12But how much of the guidance and the direction was Eddie?

00:03:16How much of him was saying, okay, son, you can talk, but here's what you need to say?

00:03:21Or did he just open the door for him and let him just.

00:03:25Well, he opened the door for him and let him just do it.

00:03:28Yeah.

00:03:29But if Eddie wanted something specifically in there, he would give him guidelines.

00:03:36I mean, he'd say, okay, everything he's doing is right on.

00:03:39But is there a way you can, without coming out and overtly saying this, can you say.

00:03:46That you're not going to pull out like we did in Vietnam.

00:03:50You know, I mean, yeah, I didn't think that, you know, so gave Dusty something to think about.

00:03:55But I mean, you know, it was such.

00:03:58I mean, I can remember when he turned.

00:04:02Okay.

00:04:02And the first time him and Mike were on TV, they didn't have Pac song and somebody were going to they were going to wrestle on TV.

00:04:09Right.

00:04:10Yeah.

00:04:10And they went off the air immediately.

00:04:13I was downtown in Tampa.

00:04:17And you could hear the television stations like it was someone preaching on the radio.

00:04:25Gordon Sully's voice was all over.

00:04:27I mean, I was going, what the hell is this?

00:04:29I mean, that was such.

00:04:31I don't think.

00:04:33You know, in my life, I ever saw that intensity of anything.

00:04:38I mean, he just it boomed.

00:04:40I mean, it was okay.

00:04:41Well, they were doing big money.

00:04:43But now the scalping tickets, you know, I mean, and one and even a dusty and all great men and great performers do have egos.

00:04:51But even Dusty wasn't about to say, no, Eddie, I don't think I ought to do that.

00:04:54It's not right for me.

00:04:55But, you know, I know he was going to do whatever.

00:04:57And I had friends, you know, because that's just at that point in time where I was really starting to trade programs and magazines and things back and forth.

00:05:05And I had friends in Florida say, you've never seen anything like this.

00:05:07You've never seen anything like this.

00:05:08And I and finally, you know, then I would travel and I got to see him on TBS on the cable show.

00:05:15It's like 76.

00:05:16And he's doing the promo and wearing the outfits.

00:05:18I'm like, this is insane because it doesn't look like it should work, but it works perfect.

00:05:23Well, I'll show you how again, how Eddie was so on top of things.

00:05:29Remember, I told you about five minutes ago about the bet with Vince.

00:05:34He didn't want Vince to flop.

00:05:36So he suggests a superstar, Dusty of the Bull Rope.

00:05:40You see what I'm saying?

00:05:41Yeah, he because the cards underneath Backlund were always Snooker.

00:05:46Bruno could have Crusher Verdu on top and nobody in underneath.

00:05:49And it was fine.

00:05:49But he stacked the cards because that's the way you made sure that the perception of your main event star was that he was drawn.

00:05:56Yeah. So whether it's Andre or whether Bruno back for a special match or whether it's superstar Billy Graham against Dusty Rhodes.

00:06:02Well, you told me one time Eddie Graham would call Vince McMahon senior and say, can you take Dusty for just, you know, for a couple of weeks?

00:06:09I got to get somebody else over down here.

00:06:11And you couldn't get anybody else over as long as Dusty Rhodes was still there.

00:06:14Nobody could get over Dusty.

00:06:16Well, Terry and I have talked about this, too.

00:06:19Terry would say to me.

00:06:24Eddie would have to get Dusty out there.

00:06:27I mean, he just had it because it was a logjam.

00:06:30You know, I mean, no one's going around them and no one was going to replace him.

00:06:34And he knew that.

00:06:35But he'd send them up to Barnett when Barnett started running, you know, Columbus and Michigan and all that.

00:06:41But all the time he was doing that, he was also going to Houston.

00:06:44He was going to St.

00:06:45Louis. He was going up to Vince.

00:06:48And then Eddie would try to get some guys over and they would do fairly well, you know, but the people would clamor for Dusty to come back.

00:06:57You know, I mean, and as soon as he came back.

00:06:59But that's the thing.

00:07:00They were clamoring for him to come back.

00:07:02How could I miss you?

00:07:03Yeah.

00:07:03If you won't go away.

00:07:04Yeah.

00:07:05And it's just in those days you had a place to send guys so you could protect your investment.

00:07:09Right.

00:07:10So, well, he's getting a little stale over here, even though Dusty was hard to get stale at that time.

00:07:14But any regular talent.

00:07:16Get a little stale over here.

00:07:17But if I send him to X for a few weeks or a few months and he comes back and rock and roll leaves Louisiana, comes back Tennessee for 90 days, goes back.

00:07:25Oh, they're so happy.

00:07:27During these hot periods like this in the 70s, late 70s, early 80s was hot.

00:07:32What was the money like for the top guys in the state of Florida?

00:07:35Home almost every night if you wanted to be.

00:07:38Sun, fun, beaches, weather.

00:07:40JJ and I talked about this in the early 80s in Florida.

00:07:46The guys, I'm sure when Dusty did this in 74, he was making $150,000.

00:07:54In the 80s, you know, you were making $100,000 if you were working with Dusty.

00:07:59Yeah.

00:08:00And...

00:08:021974, that's 40 years ago.

00:08:05Right.

00:08:05$150,000 for those guys figured into that thing, that would be 500 grand now, probably.

00:08:12At least, yeah.

00:08:13And as they say, as the kids say these days, today's money.

00:08:15Yeah, yeah.

00:08:16And in one state.

00:08:19And I mean, of course, now, like Dusty at that point in the mid-70s when he started going to Atlanta

00:08:24and he started going to other places, he wasn't making quite as much from Florida,

00:08:28but he was making more because he was starting to cherry-pick his shots.

00:08:31Yep.

00:08:31Ole Anderson, we talked to him in Charlotte last year,

00:08:35booking the Carolinas and being a booker and a top talent in Atlanta.

00:08:44Also, at the same time, he was making $250,000 a year in the late 70s.

00:08:48Right.

00:08:49And I think, you know, a lot of the guys these days, that's what they would aspire to now in 2015,

00:08:56but they think that Vince created big money in wrestling.

00:08:59The big money for the majority of people in wrestling was actually before...

00:09:04Absolutely.

00:09:04...Vince McMahon got his hands on it.

00:09:06Jimmy, I want to just throw something out at you.

00:09:08I read this just, you know, after I read your book, I read some excerpts from Thez's book, right?

00:09:18When he went to wrestle Ricky Dozan, he went for six weeks, 12 matches, back in 53.

00:09:29Dozan paid him $300,000.

00:09:33And I read Lou's, you may have seen, there's a YouTube clip where he's running on the beach

00:09:39where he had that hotel, right?

00:09:42Yes, yeah, yeah.

00:09:43And if you watch him when he's running on the beach, he's saying,

00:09:46I am working about two days a week now.

00:09:48I've cut back.

00:09:48I'm making $5,000 a week on a bad week.

00:09:51These guys just make huge money.

00:09:53Well, in Chicago, the Dumont Network television, and we're going to cover that in another edition of Back to the Territories,

00:10:01but the U.S. champion, Vern Gagne, who was made by Fred Kohler, who ran the Chicago TV,

00:10:10was the only other touring champion besides Thez and the NWA title.

00:10:13He got the same deal.

00:10:14Instead of the NWA and Thez, it was Gagne got 10% of the house, and Kohler got 3% for the booking fee,

00:10:22instead of Barnett for the NWA.

00:10:25So the point is, even at $2 and $3 tickets, when he was going to buildings that were drawing 5 and 6 and 8 and 10,000 people,

00:10:33whether it be Chicago or Milwaukee or wherever, that's $1,500, $2,000 a day on some of these shows.

00:10:40The point is, the top five money-earning athletes in the United States, pro athletes in the early 50s,

00:10:50were the world heavyweight boxing champion and four pro wrestlers.

00:10:53Gorgeous George, Vern Gagne, Lou Thez, and somebody else, the TV stars.

00:10:57The team sports didn't even compare.

00:10:59So anyway, going back to the original question, long story short, too late,

00:11:05guys were making six figures, working in the state of Florida in the 70s and in the 80s,

00:11:11and that also was helpful for their career because they knew they'd get protégés.

00:11:17Eddie Graham had so many protégés.

00:11:19Jack Briscoe, Bill Watts, Dusty Rhodes, yourself.

00:11:23Briscoe, he knew as an NCAA champion, was going to be an all-American boy from Oklahoma,

00:11:29great amateur wrestler, clean cut, good look.

00:11:32He groomed him, and that included sending him out to Amarillo so he could do jobs for Dorian Terry,

00:11:37you know, which led to some lasting issues.

00:11:42Bill Watts was a protégé in terms of he had already been in the business for 10 years,

00:11:46but he learned to book there.

00:11:48Right.

00:11:50Dusty was a protégé in that he and Dick Murdoch had already been main event guys as the Texas Outlaws,

00:11:55and he already kind of had a clue what he was doing with his deal,

00:11:59but he was shaped in Florida and then made so hot that they were scalping tickets

00:12:02and he was shitting on Jackie Gleason's toilet.

00:12:04Yeah.

00:12:05Yourself, who had been in the business in a variety of positions as talent,

00:12:09but actually got a chance to sit in and listen to these things and book and matchmake.

00:12:14He had so much impact on some—can you think of other people that sat under that learning tree?

00:12:20I mean, everybody that ever worked there, but specifically.

00:12:22I'll tell you one that if he didn't have an accident, Jimmy,

00:12:26we'd be talking about him being the smartest.

00:12:28Bobby Shane.

00:12:29Bobby Shane, by far.

00:12:32He just had it.

00:12:33And the other one was Dickie Slater.

00:12:37You know, when he was in that real bad wreck and he hit his head—

00:12:41Car wreck, okay, yeah.

00:12:42He never was the same.

00:12:43I mean, it did something to him, okay?

00:12:46Had he just watched a videotape of Terry Funk and then he had the car wreck

00:12:50and when he woke up he thought he was Terry?

00:12:52Yeah, I think so.

00:12:53But I'm telling you, he knew how to work the day he came into the business.

00:12:58He knew how to manipulate.

00:12:59He knew how to do angles.

00:13:01He was a big, burly guy and he would get the baby face over before he ever threw a punch,

00:13:07you know what I mean?

00:13:07And when he kicked it in gear, the only guy I ever saw do the similar thing to him,

00:13:13kick it in gear and take it to a different level, Paul Orndorff.

00:13:17Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about.

00:13:19Everybody from Florida that made it really made it, you know what I mean?

00:13:23Because they got to see all this great talent and they got to see it in a different way.

00:13:29Well, Orndorff, when Orndorff was a rookie, Eddie sent him up to Memphis to work for Jerry Jarrett

00:13:36and they put the belt—Lawler worked with him.

00:13:37Lawler could work with anybody whether they had a match or not

00:13:39and they put the belt on him there for a brief time as his first title.

00:13:42But they showed the footage of Orndorff and Bob Backlund working out in the gym

00:13:48where they did that thing where they did the back bridge but their legs were entwined

00:13:52and then they were doing sit-ups with it and it looked like inhuman shit.

00:13:55And these guys are real athletes, holy shit.

00:13:58Two weeks of that and Paul Orndorff was made by the time he got in the ring

00:14:03and then they put him over David Schultz and some underneath heels.

00:14:07One minute, one minute, one minute, and four weeks later he's Lawler for the title.

00:14:11Boom, one punch, knockout.

00:14:13Boom, wins the belt and all of a sudden he's over in a month.

00:14:16Yeah.

00:14:17And you know, those guys, he had such great raw material, such clay to work with.

00:14:25Yeah, and you know, you said something that just jumped out at me.

00:14:29They were all athletes.

00:14:31Slater could have played—you know, he could have played for the Miami Dolphins.

00:14:35Yeah, he was a hot shot football player.

00:14:37Yeah, and he was a very good amateur wrestler.

00:14:41Paul Orndorff, I mean, he went to the pros, football.

00:14:45I mean, you look at it, Jack Briscoe, Gerald Briscoe.

00:14:48I mean, the basics, the funks, you know what I mean?

00:14:53They all brought legitimacy to the business, especially that's what Eddie wanted.

00:14:59And I find it very ironic, all these guys that were buff and national champions and all that

00:15:06and ended up with us, he being the biggest one.

00:15:08Maybe because it was different.

00:15:10He was different.

00:15:11Yeah.

00:15:11If you got a ring full of seven-foot guys, you haven't got any giants, right?

00:15:14Yeah.

00:15:16We talked about Eddie's influence on the NWA and on the other promoters.

00:15:20He had not only a vote, but one of the votes on the world title, right?

00:15:24Right.

00:15:26We talked about the fact that people would call him not only for finishes, but to settle disputes.

00:15:30If there was a fight between two other promoters, everybody wanted to know what Eddie said.

00:15:35We talked about the Jarrett and Gulas thing, the relationship with Vince Senior.

00:15:39So there was that—you know how I figured out there was some kind of something going on

00:15:42between Florida and the WWWF?

00:15:45I was a big newspaper clipping trader, right?

00:15:48See what the lineups were.

00:15:49And I discovered that the layouts of some of the Florida ads were the exact same pattern

00:15:55as the layout of some of the WWWF ads all the way up.

00:15:58I'm like, there's something going on here.

00:16:00With the picture of Bruno and Vince Senior.

00:16:02Yeah.

00:16:02Just different names, but the same, you know.

00:16:06Was it just something that they—there had never been an NWA-WWWF unification title match

00:16:14until they did them in Florida.

00:16:16Right.

00:16:18And Eddie Graham was able to get—one of them was Superstar Graham and Harley Race.

00:16:22I was on that show.

00:16:23Were you—was that when the Orange Bowl?

00:16:25Yeah, that was the Orange Bowl.

00:16:26Tell me about that.

00:16:27Holy shit, what a—you know, I mean, a match that took 25 years to put together.

00:16:31Yeah.

00:16:34I'll tell you what I remember about it that was different to me, okay?

00:16:42Eddie brought them into—the Orange Bowl was in a horrible section of town.

00:16:48You know, it's where they play the National—

00:16:49We went there once we did the 86 bash there.

00:16:51Okay, yeah, yeah.

00:16:52Oh, it was brutal.

00:16:53It was like another country, yeah.

00:16:54Yeah, and you remember all the little enclaves and alleyways and different places you could

00:17:01go and get lost and not even get to the ring, you know, if you took the wrong turn?

00:17:05You bump into Igor, or is that Igor?

00:17:08Yeah.

00:17:09You know what I mean?

00:17:10And they were actually on the street outside the stadium, like, middle of the day,

00:17:14because we got there early.

00:17:15They were actually cooking some type of animal and selling it on sticks out there.

00:17:20It looked apparently unlicensed also, just from what I could tell.

00:17:23It was a strange neighborhood, anyway.

00:17:26He took Race and—and I thought this was funny, because he took Race and Superstar

00:17:33in an enclave by themselves.

00:17:36Nobody else was there, you know, and usually maybe Dusty would be there or, you know,

00:17:41one of his guys.

00:17:43And the other thing that I thought was strange, here we are in North Miami, right?

00:17:52And Vince's house is 15 minutes away, and Vince wasn't even there.

00:17:56And he wasn't there.

00:17:57So I'm sure Eddie had gone to Vince's house, asked Vince what he wanted,

00:18:03and Vince said to him, well, this is what I want, Eddie.

00:18:06How do we get there?

00:18:07I'm sure they've got the particulars.

00:18:10And I'm sure, in my head, Vince wouldn't have done it with anybody else but Eddie,

00:18:21right?

00:18:22Yeah, because that—

00:18:23Yeah, it could have been—

00:18:24Harley Race Superstar Graham.

00:18:26I don't think there's much doubt there what's going to take place if, you know,

00:18:30if it had to be that way.

00:18:31Yeah, and I think that Eddie was so close to Vince that Vince said,

00:18:42I don't even have to go.

00:18:43I'm sure it's going to be okay.

00:18:44You know what I mean?

00:18:45And then on the other hand, Vince was smart enough that if I go over,

00:18:49there's a red flag, right?

00:18:50Yeah.

00:18:51But they—I saw, if you watch the tape, Superstar does a lot more wrestling

00:18:57than I ever saw him do.

00:18:58You know, and Eddie said, hey, this is prestige.

00:19:01You know, you're going to act like this is the real deal.

00:19:06Yeah.

00:19:07One of you is going to lose, and you can unify this belt.

00:19:10Because I think Eddie saw, somewhere down the line,

00:19:14if Vincent Sr. had lived, that there could have been a huge unification match

00:19:21because closed circuit was just starting, right?

00:19:24So I think that's what happened.

00:19:26And they had a very good match, and remember they had the count out

00:19:29with the blood and the whole—

00:19:31And they did a couple of them still in Florida, and Backlund did one also.

00:19:36I wrestled Backlund.

00:19:37Did you really?

00:19:38Yeah, I wrestled Backlund for the WWF title in Atlanta twice,

00:19:44and I wrestled him in Miami once.

00:19:49But again, you know what we talked about?

00:19:51You know, even though that was the match, right?

00:19:54Yeah.

00:19:55The match under us was Dusty and Ole in a cage.

00:19:58Yeah.

00:19:59You know what I mean?

00:20:00So Eddie would protect Vincent—

00:20:02Did they do WWF-NWA title versus title anywhere else but Florida now,

00:20:07I'm trying to think?

00:20:08Was there—

00:20:09I think, yeah, they didn't do NWA.

00:20:15They did NWA against WWF in Montreal.

00:20:18Yeah, and they were all going to Houston at the same time

00:20:21because everybody worked for Paul, Nick had an interest, et cetera.

00:20:25And I think they might have had the NWA champion

00:20:33against the WWF champion in Houston.

00:20:37Yeah, that's what it was.

00:20:39Yeah.

00:20:40Or maybe it was Nick and Harley.

00:20:44Right.

00:20:45Moving on.

00:20:46Yes.

00:20:47We talked about the style and the image of the promotion.

00:20:50It was a mix of scientific wrestlers and chaos,

00:20:53but it was all logical and credible, and it fit the presentation.

00:21:01Do you think that the—I guess it's a loaded question.

00:21:06Do you think either would have worked without the other?

00:21:08Maybe I'm answering my own question.

00:21:09Do you think just all scientific wrestling wouldn't have worked

00:21:13and all brawling would have got old real quick?

00:21:15That's how he was able to keep it different

00:21:17because if he had a brawl at the top of the card,

00:21:19it would be scientific underneath.

00:21:21And if he had a wrestling match, they'd do a little more fighting.

00:21:23But it managed to complement each other.

00:21:25Now they have hardcore promotions.

00:21:27They have a lucha promotion.

00:21:28They have a wrestling promotion.

00:21:29They have a sports entertainment promotion.

00:21:31And we're just whacking up the same size pie in smaller pieces.

00:21:35But then he was able to please everybody.

00:21:37Is it just because of the difference in fans and wrestlers?

00:21:41I think that he saw—he used to say to me,

00:21:45you know, we know each other forever, Jimmy.

00:21:49You know, and sometimes I'll paint off the easel.

00:21:51You know, I cut off my ear, Van Gogh.

00:21:53He'd say to me—and this is when I was booking there, too.

00:21:57He'd say to me,

00:21:59are we going to have scorched earth and nothing will grow?

00:22:04That was his cue to me to pull it in, you know?

00:22:07A little bit more wrestling going on.

00:22:10Scorched earth and nothing will grow.

00:22:12That's the perfect way to put it.

00:22:14Once you've burned it, you've burned it.

00:22:16Yeah.

00:22:17And I think that one of the things that you brought up earlier

00:22:21in the interview was where he came from.

00:22:23He came from Amarillo, Texas,

00:22:25and that was the wrestling, right?

00:22:28Wrestling from Texas, right?

00:22:30Was that—

00:22:31Wild and Wooly, yeah.

00:22:32Yeah, okay.

00:22:33Then he went up to New York

00:22:35where there was a little bit more wrestling,

00:22:38but him and Dr. Jerry were causing riots all over the place.

00:22:42Yeah.

00:22:43And then he saw, well, you can only go so far,

00:22:46and now if I own the territory,

00:22:48I don't want to get sued for all this stuff,

00:22:50so let's bring it back just a little, you know what I mean?

00:22:53Just a drava.

00:22:54Just, yeah, just bring it back a little,

00:22:57and okay, we got King Curtis and Mark coming in.

00:23:02Okay, six months, six months,

00:23:07and we'll let them go back to Australia,

00:23:09but let's be prepared when they go

00:23:11that, you know, sift it out,

00:23:15put a handle on it,

00:23:17make sure they don't burn everything up.

00:23:20He just had—

00:23:21Stop the blood for a little while.

00:23:23Yeah, he just had—

00:23:24Oh, yeah.

00:23:25When Curtis and Lewin left,

00:23:26there was no blood for a while, you know what I mean?

00:23:28Because why?

00:23:29Why would you, you know?

00:23:30Yeah, yeah.

00:23:32He just had this ungodly feel to the business.

00:23:38I think, Jimmy, he started very young,

00:23:40what, 15 or 16?

00:23:41Yeah.

00:23:42I think when you're that so deep in it,

00:23:45that was his only relief,

00:23:51was the wrestling business, you know what I mean?

00:23:53He was so absorbed with it that he—

00:24:00I could love to have been

00:24:03in a bunch of conversations with him and Terry

00:24:07and him and Dory Sr.

00:24:09They must have been some great conversations,

00:24:11you know what I mean?

00:24:12But those guys, wrestling was their life,

00:24:15you know what I mean?

00:24:16It was so deep.

00:24:17When did you take the book first time?

00:24:19First time was when I said back in 74,

00:24:23he let me and Dickie have the Fort Myers,

00:24:28and then the first time I took the book was

00:24:32in about 82, I became Dusty's assistant.

00:24:36Then in 85, I took the book until Jimmy bought it out.

00:24:40Well, the 80s, there were changes.

00:24:42There were fresher talent,

00:24:44but still you had Dusty, obviously,

00:24:47but Barry Windham, come on.

00:24:48David Von Erich, they sent David over there,

00:24:51and that's where he got a chance to be a heel,

00:24:53and they were grooming him, right,

00:24:55for the NWA title.

00:24:57He was going to go to Florida to be a heel,

00:24:58then he was already in St. Louis.

00:25:00Was Missouri champion, which we talked about.

00:25:02You were still there, but now you'd gone from

00:25:05a smiling and happy baby face to an evil person

00:25:08who bore no resemblance to this.

00:25:10Wahoo McDaniel, Lex Luger popped up right there

00:25:13just at the last.

00:25:14Dory was still around.

00:25:15Mike Rotunda and Windham were a good team.

00:25:17Ron Bass and Black Bart, the Youngbloods,

00:25:20the Zambuie Express, one of my favorite tag teams,

00:25:22not necessarily for match quality,

00:25:25but just for name and sheer gross poundage.

00:25:29The early 80s were still hot, though.

00:25:32I remember, once again, the Funks and Briscos

00:25:35had a nice little program on TV down there.

00:25:37The names were changing, but Florida wrestling

00:25:41still had cachet in the community, as they say.

00:25:46Dutch told me he booked Florida, I guess,

00:25:50right after you and after Eddie had died.

00:25:54He said, hell, I could have done better,

00:25:56but they didn't tell me when I was booking

00:25:58these big shows.

00:25:59They didn't tell me I could just say we could

00:26:01raise the ticket prices, the championship prices.

00:26:03He didn't know that.

00:26:04He said, Dusty told him one time,

00:26:06why don't you just raise the prices?

00:26:08Well, fuck, I didn't know I could do that, Dream.

00:26:13When you first got the book, the first time

00:26:15of the whole territory, what did you learn

00:26:18that you had not known that you didn't know

00:26:20up until that point?

00:26:22Well, I think what I learned that I didn't know

00:26:26was, and I don't know why I didn't,

00:26:29because I was there when it started,

00:26:31was how powerful TBS was, you know what I mean?

00:26:36Because I didn't have cable at that time,

00:26:38you know, and I saw how to see an encroachment

00:26:42on it was Tommy Rich.

00:26:44That was the first.

00:26:47And then they sent me up there to go on a tour

00:26:52because they wanted you to get your face

00:26:54to come back into Florida.

00:26:56So I went on a tour and it was the first tour

00:26:59they went on to Columbus, Ohio.

00:27:01Tommy Rich was like the Beatles.

00:27:03The girls were throwing their underwear

00:27:05in the ring, you know what I mean?

00:27:07It was like, whoa, they were sold out.

00:27:09They popped when the guys locked up

00:27:11for the first time.

00:27:12So I started to say, wow.

00:27:13And they hadn't seen live wrestling up there

00:27:16like five, six years before,

00:27:17so it was like they used to say

00:27:19a virgin crowd again, which is another thing

00:27:21we can't ever find is a virgin crowd anymore.

00:27:23They've all been deflowered.

00:27:25Very brutal fashion.

00:27:26But I saw that, you know, the only way

00:27:31to stop this machine being,

00:27:33and it was, you know, again, 605 to 805,

00:27:36what a time slot, right?

00:27:38Because on the East Coast, you're going out

00:27:40on a Saturday night, you sat down,

00:27:42you had a beer, you're watching this.

00:27:45Oh, wait, oh, geez, I'm going to go.

00:27:47I'll be right there.

00:27:48Let's watch this, you know?

00:27:50That kind of thing.

00:27:51The only way they could have ended

00:27:55was the time they went to Memphis

00:27:57and tried to do that.

00:27:59That didn't work.

00:28:00No.

00:28:01Because of all the egos.

00:28:02You know that, right?

00:28:03Well, the Great American Bash 86,

00:28:05that's the one I remember was the worst.

00:28:07There was a couple of stinkers.

00:28:09A couple of great ones.

00:28:10A couple of stinkers.

00:28:11But the worst was Memphis.

00:28:12We're at the Liberty Bowl Stadium

00:28:14in the South Coliseum.

00:28:15It seats 11,000.

00:28:16Liberty Bowl seats 70,000

00:28:18and I think we had 2,000 people.

00:28:21Because Jerry Lawler wasn't on the card.

00:28:23And Lance Russell didn't tell us

00:28:25about it on TV Saturday morning.

00:28:27So people in Memphis weren't buying it.

00:28:29Ric Flair, Dusty Rhodes, we don't give a shit.

00:28:31Could be a second coming of Luthez

00:28:33and, you know, Frank Gotch.

00:28:35But at the period of the early 80s,

00:28:37that's, you know, with all the changes,

00:28:39everybody knows about,

00:28:42Vince starting to expand just at that point.

00:28:44People starting to get a glimmer of smartness.

00:28:46And the promoters helping them along

00:28:48quite a bit later on.

00:28:50Business stayed up for a while there

00:28:52but it started.

00:28:53Was that what..

00:28:54And I hate to get in to the morbid stuff

00:28:56but Eddie's death obviously was sudden

00:28:58and somewhat controversial.

00:28:59And you've told me a few stories about it.

00:29:01But the wrestling business was his business

00:29:03and Eddie's business was his business.

00:29:05And Eddie's business was his business.

00:29:07And Eddie's business was his business.

00:29:09And Eddie's business was his business.

00:29:11And Eddie's business was still fairly solid.

00:29:13His business was fairly solid

00:29:15and he got in to, you know,

00:29:17a land problem

00:29:19that they had.

00:29:21The story I got

00:29:23from a pretty reliable source

00:29:25was Mike.

00:29:27They bought some property

00:29:29and they were going to put

00:29:31a loop around Tampa

00:29:33you know, on I-4.

00:29:35I think it's 204, 240 now.

00:29:37Well they, someone in the county

00:29:40gave them the specifics

00:29:42where it was going to happen.

00:29:44Okay.

00:29:46Eddie put the money up

00:29:48and the guy

00:29:50that was his partner was a crook

00:29:52and it was nothing

00:29:54but a scam.

00:29:56They had the people in the commission scam Eddie.

00:29:58And you know

00:30:00he could have faced some jail time.

00:30:02And I think

00:30:04you know

00:30:06there's been all kinds of surmising

00:30:08what happened but I think

00:30:10I saw him

00:30:12from going, he was

00:30:14sober for 17 years.

00:30:16I was there, he shot down the

00:30:18beer. I went whoa.

00:30:20You know it was right off the cliff.

00:30:22And I think

00:30:24with whatever haunted him

00:30:26we'll never

00:30:28know Jimmy. Yeah.

00:30:30But the thing that I always remember

00:30:32Florida

00:30:34was the last place that

00:30:36Vince Jr. invaded.

00:30:38He didn't go to

00:30:40Florida until. You're right.

00:30:42Probably until after Eddie was dead at that point.

00:30:44Yeah he didn't go.

00:30:46And. Do you think even

00:30:48Vince said well my dad would

00:30:50roll over in his grave if I try to fuck Eddie?

00:30:52You know I kind of think

00:30:54that it was like

00:30:56yeah he

00:30:58might have thought that but he was going to go

00:31:00eventually. But I think

00:31:02he was going to do it

00:31:04where he was thinking

00:31:06because of my dad's

00:31:08relationship with Eddie

00:31:10maybe he'll

00:31:12have no access to

00:31:14talent. Things will

00:31:16go wrong and I can buy him

00:31:18out like I bought

00:31:20Calgary out. Different territories.

00:31:22I think that's what he would have

00:31:24done because you know

00:31:26Eddie was so well connected

00:31:28it wouldn't take Eddie but a phone call to

00:31:30stop a show. You know what I mean?

00:31:32See that was the one thing that Vince

00:31:34people forget that it took him

00:31:36he never got the Carolinas

00:31:38he never got the Carolinas until Crockett folded up

00:31:40he couldn't draw on the Carolinas at all. People didn't

00:31:42view that as wrestling and then it

00:31:44took TBS killing the

00:31:46Carolinas wrestling and then

00:31:48Vince came in you know in the late 90s

00:31:50in the attitude era but that had been years.

00:31:52Right. He never

00:31:54drew a house in Greensboro from 1984

00:31:56to 1999.

00:31:58Mid-South territory

00:32:00was incredibly difficult

00:32:02because people there were like no, Mid-South

00:32:04wrestling is what wrestling is.

00:32:06Florida would have probably been

00:32:08and Memphis had its own thing but

00:32:10he did well in Louisville.

00:32:12It was just the city of Memphis not the whole territory

00:32:14that kind of rejected it but

00:32:16Florida would have been with

00:32:18Eddie Graham still around would that have been the toughest

00:32:20nut to crack? Yeah I think it would

00:32:22have been because of how

00:32:24Eddie structured his whole

00:32:26business and his political

00:32:28positions. He could call somebody up and say hey

00:32:30I don't think they have a license for

00:32:32this, this and this. Yeah. We'll

00:32:34shut you down until you prove it to us.

00:32:36And he was in every major arena in the state at that

00:32:38point in time almost every week

00:32:40or the big events you know

00:32:42whatever so he would have had relationships

00:32:44with every building manager. And I

00:32:46wonder this is something that

00:32:48I've thought about I don't have the answer

00:32:50don't you think that he had the clause

00:32:52you know a month before

00:32:54you couldn't run or a month after me?

00:32:56Yeah.

00:32:58Or a day with a Y in it or whatever.

00:33:00Yeah.

00:33:02So the land

00:33:04issue

00:33:06some people had said well Eddie flew

00:33:08the plane and he flew to the Bahamas a lot

00:33:10you know I think now we're getting into

00:33:129-11 was an inside job etc.

00:33:14But

00:33:16how did you hear about

00:33:18what happened? Explain to the people what happened and how

00:33:20did you hear about it? Well I was

00:33:22in San Antonio

00:33:24and it was

00:33:26Super Bowl Sunday

00:33:28and

00:33:30Mike was at the game

00:33:32in

00:33:34Los Angeles

00:33:36and

00:33:38this is crazy there was a

00:33:40snow storm in San Antonio

00:33:42and the town was

00:33:44I went down there for Luke Williams

00:33:46right? Yeah. He brought me in.

00:33:48San Antonio Blanchard's office.

00:33:50Yeah so Luke brought me in

00:33:52Snow's there once every 20 years.

00:33:54Yeah so we locked in and

00:33:56this

00:33:58guy I knew from Tampa called

00:34:00me and he said

00:34:02it's been on the news, did you hear the news?

00:34:04I said what? He said

00:34:06Eddie's dead. I said what?

00:34:08You know I couldn't believe it and he said

00:34:10Eddie's died and they think it's

00:34:12an apparent gunshot wound.

00:34:14Mike

00:34:16they

00:34:18sent a PA announcement at the

00:34:20Super Bowl. Mike Graham please

00:34:22come to the office.

00:34:24That's right he was at the Super Bowl.

00:34:26He thought it was a rib

00:34:28and he went there and he got on the plane.

00:34:30So I mean it was

00:34:34for him Mike it was like

00:34:36he was blind

00:34:38sided by it you know what I'm saying?

00:34:40But in

00:34:42some recourse when I look back

00:34:44you know

00:34:46sometimes you don't pay attention

00:34:48and you see things coming and you say

00:34:50how did I miss that one?

00:34:52He got really

00:34:54really

00:34:56out of sorts for Eddie you know what I mean?

00:34:58He

00:35:00his beard he didn't shave

00:35:02for three or four days you know what I mean?

00:35:04He wasn't using his boat.

00:35:06Eddie always had

00:35:08the blonde hair it was streaked

00:35:10with grey and

00:35:12he just wasn't himself and I

00:35:14think that whatever it was

00:35:16whether it was the

00:35:189-11 theory which could be

00:35:20possible

00:35:22or the land or whatever

00:35:24I think

00:35:26whatever he was bearing

00:35:28he snapped you know what I mean?

00:35:30He just couldn't take it anymore.

00:35:32Your

00:35:34transformation to and by the way

00:35:36explain you never worshipped

00:35:38the devil. No and I never said.

00:35:40Explain this for people

00:35:42and that came right at

00:35:44Was it right before Eddie was gone or right after?

00:35:46What did he think about it? The point is

00:35:48if you started it right at that point.

00:35:50Explain what it was and then tell what.

00:35:52When I started it

00:35:54the angle was

00:35:56I came back

00:35:58and I was the baby face.

00:36:00Michael had me come back with open arms

00:36:02but Barry Windham and Blackjack said

00:36:04this ain't the same guy

00:36:06that left here you know what I mean?

00:36:08Three years ago this guy's

00:36:10no good. We've known him all along

00:36:12and I'm saying hey we all make mistakes

00:36:14blah blah blah blah.

00:36:16As

00:36:18doing these interviews and Mike's

00:36:20sticking up for me and they want to hang me

00:36:22with the dress room split half and half

00:36:24I started watching

00:36:26MTV right? Horror

00:36:28movies the genre was in right?

00:36:30Billy Idol. So I said

00:36:32I should be able to take something on this and I had

00:36:34just come back with

00:36:36Mark from Singapore, Malaysia

00:36:38Hong Kong. I went to the

00:36:40cave temples in

00:36:42Malaysia

00:36:44and I

00:36:46talked to some of these people

00:36:48called Sifus you know the learned ones

00:36:50and they tell me about this

00:36:52fertility god. A Buddha

00:36:54Deen. I said I never heard of that.

00:36:56Then we go to India and

00:36:58they're chewing the beetle nut and all this.

00:37:00Everything I said was

00:37:02taken

00:37:04off a Hindu's religion.

00:37:06The beetle nut is what they partake

00:37:08in over there

00:37:10and everything was going

00:37:12along fine until Apner

00:37:14put on

00:37:16without no disclaimer

00:37:18from me. The

00:37:20devil is my manager. That's all they had

00:37:22to see in the deep south right?

00:37:24So I was hung

00:37:26you know at that time I was

00:37:28hung

00:37:30and at

00:37:32that time if you remember

00:37:34you know when

00:37:36MTV first came out too

00:37:38with all these videos. They were kind of

00:37:40dark and kind of

00:37:42that way you know what I mean? So I just

00:37:44jumped on the bandwagon and went with it

00:37:46but Eddie

00:37:48at first said to

00:37:50me you better be careful with this. That's

00:37:52all I care. You know I care.

00:37:54Just be careful with this

00:37:56and I knew he

00:37:58critiqued my interviews you know what I mean. I never

00:38:00used that word devil. I never

00:38:02said anything and

00:38:04what happened was

00:38:06you know thus he got into that.

00:38:08The devil himself. The devil himself.

00:38:10The devil made me do it baby.

00:38:12Then he got into that and then it became

00:38:14boom you know being

00:38:16Mark and it didn't help

00:38:18me to say

00:38:20oh I'm not doing this when Mark

00:38:22is rolling his eyes and

00:38:24yeesh yeesh you know

00:38:26and he crashes his leg. The third eye.

00:38:28The third eye and we're talking

00:38:30and we're talking about feasting

00:38:32and rejoicing and the other thing was

00:38:34because

00:38:36we're going the other way.

00:38:38We're not wrestlers right. We're

00:38:40not some crazy

00:38:42best. We went

00:38:44everywhere with our robes

00:38:46on. I would go to

00:38:48grocery shop with my robe on.

00:38:50I went to the gym one time.

00:38:52I went to the gym one time. Now this wasn't a

00:38:54wrestling robe. He looked like one of the druids that

00:38:56accompanies the undertaker. Yeah.

00:38:58So Mark would wear his purple one

00:39:00and I went into the gym one

00:39:02day because

00:39:04there was some people talking about wrestling

00:39:06you know. They said me and Mark used

00:39:08to train together.

00:39:10Mark overheard them saying

00:39:12Mark can talk see.

00:39:14Hayes can talk.

00:39:16They're not wacky.

00:39:18Mark says you got to do something

00:39:20tomorrow. He said we'll go in

00:39:22separate. I said what do you

00:39:24want me to do? He said ah you come up with it.

00:39:26So it was Rick Poston's

00:39:28gym. The one that Scott Hall always

00:39:30talks about that he was trying to be a wrestler.

00:39:32Yeah, yeah, yeah. I walk

00:39:34in there. Mark's in there and I

00:39:36got my robe on and I

00:39:38don't have shoes and I say

00:39:40who is following me for the

00:39:42summer? We're going to the burning

00:39:44sands. We're toughing our

00:39:46feet up. People looked at me and they

00:39:48went whoa. Let's go to the bathroom.

00:39:50You know what I mean? So

00:39:52me and Mark would be driving down the road. This

00:39:54got to be such a kick too.

00:39:56We'd be driving down the road. Mark would have the

00:39:58light on. We'd be drinking beer.

00:40:00We'd be coming up that Yeehaw junction

00:40:02three times a week, right? Yeah.

00:40:04First time it happens

00:40:06pulls us over. Marky

00:40:08jumps on. Thank you for protecting

00:40:10us. Good. I was speeding.

00:40:12The cop

00:40:14was blown away, right? Marky says

00:40:16thank you officer. Thank you.

00:40:18Every week we'd come by three times a week.

00:40:20The cop would stop us. What are you guys doing?

00:40:22Eventually

00:40:24Marky would say to him, hey you want a beer?

00:40:26Well I'm not supposed to. He said who's going to know?

00:40:28You think I'm going to tell you?

00:40:30We got cops drinking the beer on the side of the road

00:40:32wearing a black robe and a

00:40:34purple robe. That must have looked good to the

00:40:36people going by, huh?

00:40:38You had all kinds of weirdos

00:40:40following you guys around too. What was the story

00:40:42of the one time? Van.

00:40:44Yes, the van that burned the van.

00:40:46Here's the thing. Outside of

00:40:48Orlando there's a town called

00:40:50Casadega. It's mediums

00:40:52people that

00:40:54believe in Wittica.

00:40:56Psychics, card readers.

00:40:58Paranormal.

00:41:00Paranormal.

00:41:02Well

00:41:04Orlando was good old

00:41:06boys. They were

00:41:08cowboys. They came, Mulligan

00:41:10and Dusty

00:41:12could talk them into the building. Mulligan

00:41:14used to say, get mama from

00:41:16the kitchen. I need help. I

00:41:18went by the car. Smoke was

00:41:20billeting out of it. Pantyhose.

00:41:22I don't know what's going on in there.

00:41:24These

00:41:26people from Casadega started

00:41:28coming to the matches and cheering

00:41:30me and Mark. There was about five

00:41:32guys.

00:41:34They come in the van and they gave me

00:41:36these elaborate set of

00:41:38bones that were varnished and

00:41:40stuff. I said, I'm going to wear them tonight.

00:41:42I wear them. Bones from what

00:41:44type of animal? It was a chicken.

00:41:46These kids jump up and they're

00:41:48like, hey, get it.

00:41:50It's me and Mark.

00:41:52We're leaving. We see this

00:41:54huge fire.

00:41:56We see the town

00:41:58folks chasing

00:42:00the Frankenstein monsters and

00:42:02beating them with boards and shit

00:42:04and throwing rocks at them.

00:42:06I said to Mark, should we stop?

00:42:08He said, are you shitting me? Let's keep going.

00:42:10Let's get out of here. Burn the

00:42:12van down. Beat the kids up.

00:42:14Beat the kids up.

00:42:16Where did you find all those

00:42:18people, those fucking snakes?

00:42:20It was crazy

00:42:22because Jake and I

00:42:24were partners first.

00:42:26I carried the snake before Jake.

00:42:28A friend

00:42:30of mine, his father,

00:42:32was High Gardener.

00:42:34The only talk show Elvis was ever on

00:42:36was on that show.

00:42:38Around town went high.

00:42:40HY.

00:42:42His mother was

00:42:44in the syndicated newspapers.

00:42:46The BBC

00:42:48just bought his father's old

00:42:50library and they're going to do a special on him.

00:42:52He's into snakes

00:42:54so he was the first one to give me a snake.

00:42:56It's like anything else.

00:42:58Monkey see, monkey do.

00:43:00About

00:43:02two months later, I go to the buildings.

00:43:04There'll be 12 people there with all different

00:43:06kinds of snakes.

00:43:08I say, well, I guess it's a choice.

00:43:10A little bit about this one.

00:43:12We'll try that one tonight.

00:43:14I didn't steal the snake thing

00:43:16but I did steal when you raised

00:43:18Mark Lewin, Purple Haze

00:43:20from the

00:43:22ocean.

00:43:24We didn't have an ocean in Louisville but we had the Ohio River

00:43:26and that's good enough.

00:43:28Leviathan, Batista,

00:43:30he comes in and he's so green.

00:43:32Oh my God.

00:43:34Offa the Samoan had taught him how to write a check.

00:43:36We got him in class

00:43:38and he was a frail demon.

00:43:40He was real timid.

00:43:42He wouldn't do what his wife told him to do.

00:43:44He'd put his hoodie on because he had a cold all the time.

00:43:46I said, here's what I'd like you to do, Dave.

00:43:48You can take

00:43:50those contact lenses you wear

00:43:52and make your eyes look crazy and a chain around your neck

00:43:54and you've got the bald head

00:43:56and the tattoos you already had.

00:43:58We call you Leviathan, the demon of the deep,

00:44:00the guardian of the gates of hell.

00:44:02It's about 10 o'clock at night.

00:44:04I want you to walk about 100 feet

00:44:06out there in the Ohio River.

00:44:08Even if you swim in truck boots, you're fine.

00:44:10Walk out about 100 feet in the Ohio River

00:44:12and get down to where only the top of your head

00:44:14is visible.

00:44:16We'll give you the Iggy and start walking

00:44:18this way until gradually you come out.

00:44:20It'll be perfect.

00:44:22He's never seen the footage.

00:44:24We get down there.

00:44:26There were some fishermen there

00:44:28and they had a campfire

00:44:30and they were just leaving,

00:44:32walking down the bank.

00:44:34We said, do you mind if we use y'all's campfire?

00:44:36It's the campfire of sin.

00:44:38Slash and Damien.

00:44:40One guy's got a knife gimmick

00:44:42and we've got Judas dressed up

00:44:44with a duster coat and the preacher

00:44:46with the Bible dust comes out

00:44:48and sin is throwing the fireballs

00:44:50and there's Leviathan.

00:44:52I said, y'all aren't going to kill our dog, are you?

00:44:54No, no, no, your dog's fine.

00:44:56So we used the campfire

00:44:58and she's doing the spell of making.

00:45:00Here he comes.

00:45:02He was shitting himself.

00:45:04But we recreated that

00:45:06and that was, everybody to this day

00:45:08goes, how in the world did you come up with that?

00:45:10I said, simple, I just researched Kevin

00:45:12Sullivan's Florida wrestling tenure.

00:45:16Did you get any lawsuits out of that, by the way?

00:45:18Because there was some heavy

00:45:20stuff going on. No, I never got a lawsuit

00:45:22out of any of that.

00:45:24I mean, after

00:45:26a while, I got

00:45:28so, you know,

00:45:30you've talked about this before, getting stabbed.

00:45:32Yeah.

00:45:34Sometimes I was saying, boy, I'm looking,

00:45:36you know, this one's

00:45:38going to be tough to get out of.

00:45:40Especially in the Bahamas

00:45:42where Tyree Pride was

00:45:44brutal. I'll tell you a quick

00:45:46story. Please tell me a story about

00:45:48Tyree Pride in the Bahamas.

00:45:50Tyree Pride used to...

00:45:52Just so everybody knows, when you ran the Bahamas

00:45:54it helped if you had a native

00:45:56Bahamian

00:45:58on the card, but he wasn't,

00:46:00but he played that part on television, right?

00:46:02No, he was a St. Lucia, from St. Lucia.

00:46:04But a lot of them came

00:46:06to the Bahamas, so there was a whole

00:46:08group of people from St. Lucia

00:46:10that would come to the Bahamas.

00:46:12How big was he? What was he? Five, six?

00:46:14You know, 160?

00:46:16Something like that, and he's

00:46:18beating everybody, including Ric Flair, because

00:46:20nobody wants to beat the guy, because there'll be another one

00:46:22of those Jack Veneno situations

00:46:24with Flair. They're going to kill

00:46:26me here, you win. Anyway, go ahead.

00:46:28Exactly, so

00:46:30the thing was, that was a

00:46:32brutal place. The only time I've ever seen

00:46:34Haku stagger,

00:46:36we used to dress in a room

00:46:38like this, and then run to the

00:46:40ring, the heels, right?

00:46:42As Haku

00:46:44was coming back, they had a cinder

00:46:46block, and from the roof, they threw it,

00:46:48hit him in the head, it cracked,

00:46:50and he stumbled, but he got in.

00:46:52One night, Blackjack

00:46:54was, I mean, Jake was

00:46:56wrestling Tyree,

00:46:58and the heels had left,

00:47:00and

00:47:02they busted the doors down,

00:47:04and Jake tried to hide under a

00:47:06wrestler mat, and they had

00:47:08sticks, and they were beating him like you would

00:47:10a rat that had gone underneath the thing.

00:47:12So, you

00:47:14can see how dangerous it is, okay?

00:47:16So now, it's gotten worse,

00:47:18because they're

00:47:20throwing shit now all the time, so

00:47:22they build a tunnel for

00:47:24us, but they build it with chain link

00:47:26fence, so the umbrellas

00:47:28are coming through.

00:47:30So the umbrellas are coming through.

00:47:32So,

00:47:34they got us a cattle chute in Tulsa,

00:47:36where it was a solid wood,

00:47:38and about six feet tall, and you know,

00:47:40you just, you know,

00:47:42we used to moo on the way to the ring, but they couldn't

00:47:44get us, they'd have to reach over, and it was harder

00:47:46that way, couldn't get leverage.

00:47:48So, I was trying not to

00:47:50get killed, because

00:47:52I had gone to

00:47:54the Bahamas, I actually lived there for a while,

00:47:56so I knew

00:47:58a lot of people over there, and they

00:48:00have a thing over there, the Bahamians,

00:48:02where

00:48:04it's my color,

00:48:06then really black, in the same family,

00:48:08you know what I mean?

00:48:10They're mixed blood, but

00:48:12my color, I'd have black

00:48:14in me, and I'd call myself, they'd call them

00:48:16Conky Joes, right?

00:48:18So I used to say, how can my

00:48:20people share this guy

00:48:22that's an illegal alien, and I'm a Conky

00:48:24Joe, I'm doing everything to save my ass,

00:48:26right? I'm a Conky Joe, brother,

00:48:28you know, everything good, man?

00:48:30I didn't do my gimmick over there, right?

00:48:32So,

00:48:34one night, the promoter

00:48:36comes to me, and

00:48:38says, we're in a

00:48:40cage match,

00:48:42you know, they all say

00:48:44it's sold to the rafters, well this one, they were

00:48:46sitting on broken glass bottles that they

00:48:48put in the cement up there,

00:48:50you saw it, Jimmy, the broken black

00:48:52bottles, and they would sit on them, okay?

00:48:54Which had to

00:48:56be uncomfortable. No heel ever went

00:48:58over there, right? No heel ever

00:49:00won a match, so the promoter comes

00:49:02to me and says, and that was one of those towns

00:49:04where if they wanted you to win, you would argue with

00:49:06them, no, no, we're not, you know,

00:49:08no, we'll put them over, flat, done,

00:49:10let's get out of here. No heat,

00:49:12try not to get heat. So they said

00:49:14to me, you're in a cage match with

00:49:16Tyree, what if Mark comes

00:49:18down, the referee gets knocked down,

00:49:20and you guys hang

00:49:22him? I said,

00:49:24let me understand

00:49:26what you just said again.

00:49:28You want me to double team

00:49:30a black man and hang him

00:49:32in front of 99.9%

00:49:34St. Lucian's

00:49:36out there? They said, yeah.

00:49:38I said, who's gonna protect me?

00:49:40And the owner,

00:49:42the promoter, his name was

00:49:44Charlie Majors and he was in

00:49:46the Congress there, and he

00:49:48had a son that was a midget about this

00:49:50height. He said,

00:49:52I'll protect you. I said, what?

00:49:54He said, I'll protect you and I'll have the

00:49:56police around me. I said, Charlie,

00:49:58if I do this and I

00:50:00walk out of that, open that door,

00:50:02and you're not there,

00:50:04I'll kill you.

00:50:06Because they offered me

00:50:08a bribe to do it, and I said, okay.

00:50:10Mark comes

00:50:12down, we

00:50:14hang him,

00:50:16I open the door, and as I straddled

00:50:18the ring and the railing,

00:50:20there's Charlie. But now

00:50:22there's a wave, right? Yeah.

00:50:24Charlie's got a chair,

00:50:26right? I grab

00:50:28Charlie and put him on my head.

00:50:30He got to the dress room,

00:50:32he was split

00:50:34here, here. They beat

00:50:36him to death. The chair

00:50:38was boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

00:50:40Wait, it gets better.

00:50:42He's bleeding, he's got to get stitches.

00:50:44There's the

00:50:46gambler's guy there looking at him

00:50:48and his

00:50:50son, the midget, comes in

00:50:52and sees his dad and goes, oh!

00:50:54And fell. I went right over

00:50:56and put the boots to him. I said,

00:50:58God damn it, you deserve it too.

00:51:00You were supposed to be out there.

00:51:04You could have saved me.

00:51:06But he drew

00:51:08so much money down there. He also

00:51:10drew Miami because there's so many

00:51:12people from the Caribbean in Miami.

00:51:16You had so many angles

00:51:18where you pushed things. We had

00:51:20somebody write in earlier,

00:51:22fan mail from some flounder,

00:51:24to say, they put a stamp on it,

00:51:26put it in the mailbox, whole nine yards.

00:51:28The angle where you threw the ink

00:51:30in Dusty's sister's eyes

00:51:32on the This Is Your Life,

00:51:34Dusty Rhodes segment.

00:51:36Explain it and then tell what kind of feedback

00:51:38you got from it.

00:51:40What happened was,

00:51:42I had lost a lose-or-leave

00:51:44match.

00:51:46Mark and I were recruited by

00:51:48Jimmy Crockett to go for the first

00:51:50arcade. They actually flew us up

00:51:52to the airport, met with

00:51:54us. Mark and I were making

00:51:56good money. They said, we'll triple your money,

00:51:58blah, blah, blah.

00:52:00I tell Dusty. Dusty

00:52:02was the midnight rider then.

00:52:04I lose a

00:52:06lose-or-leave match, but I come back and look

00:52:08masked. It's me against

00:52:10Dusty in a cage.

00:52:12Loser is going to be unmasked.

00:52:16I get loose

00:52:18and I'm gone. I go up to Charlotte.

00:52:20I'm up to Charlotte.

00:52:22We're not getting anything because they shut the territory

00:52:24down just about because

00:52:26they get ready for Stargate.

00:52:28They're doing all those TVs

00:52:30and not making any money.

00:52:34After I got

00:52:36my Stargate payoff, I said, I'm

00:52:38out of here. The week

00:52:40I didn't get

00:52:42any kind of money at all

00:52:44to even live on,

00:52:46Dusty called me and said, I'd like

00:52:48you to come back. I said, okay.

00:52:50I wasn't in the territory

00:52:52where they did this.

00:52:54Dusty,

00:52:56this is your life

00:52:58like the old TV program.

00:53:00People come out and mention

00:53:02Dusty and say, oh, that's Billy Bob

00:53:04Walker or whatever.

00:53:06Then they do this thing

00:53:08where it's his sister, supposedly.

00:53:10She says,

00:53:12oh, thank you for being such a great

00:53:14older brother.

00:53:16Protect me all the time.

00:53:18She comes out. Now all the baby

00:53:20faces come out and hugging Dusty

00:53:22and kissing his ass.

00:53:24I come in like Jack

00:53:26Ruby because he was signing

00:53:28a contract

00:53:30for Frick Flair.

00:53:32Big

00:53:34quilt pen. The ceremonial

00:53:36pen and the ink well.

00:53:38I grab the ink and I throw it

00:53:40at Dusty. He ducks and blinds his

00:53:42sister.

00:53:44Now he's

00:53:46saying, I want Kevin Sullivan back

00:53:48in the NWA saying, I'm suspended

00:53:50for five years

00:53:52indefinitely or whatever.

00:53:54They have an emergency

00:53:56meeting and again,

00:53:58how Eddie

00:54:00tied things in.

00:54:02Two of them vote to keep me suspended.

00:54:04Two of them vote to allow

00:54:06me to wrestle. The deciding vote

00:54:08is Eddie. Dusty

00:54:10does one of the best promos

00:54:12I ever saw him do. You gotta do

00:54:14it for me.

00:54:16He said, okay.

00:54:18That was the thing. Then Dusty

00:54:20and I went

00:54:22to Lakeland and the dream

00:54:24did the right thing for business.

00:54:26The first night back, he put me over

00:54:28in a lot of heat.

00:54:30I mean, I beat him

00:54:32across an object, but

00:54:34the people thought, well,

00:54:36first of all, I'm gone.

00:54:38Okay, I came back. I'm going to be gone

00:54:40again, but when I beat him,

00:54:42it was like a

00:54:44jumpstart in the heart again. It got

00:54:46beaten again.

00:54:48I mean, I got a

00:54:50lot. I was afraid

00:54:52some nights. I'd be looking at guys

00:54:54and I'd say, what's in their hands?

00:54:56You know what I mean?

00:54:58I'm wearing a suit with a thick

00:55:00jacket and sometime in Louisiana,

00:55:02especially, bulletproof vest underneath.

00:55:04I wasn't afraid they'd shoot me, but it stops

00:55:06knives too. You're out there in your

00:55:08swimming trunks.

00:55:12Did you get the fire from the Sheik?

00:55:14Yeah, absolutely. Of course you did.

00:55:16I stole everything from him.

00:55:18You researched it.

00:55:20The fireball thing, that's

00:55:22when Dusty had me do it with Ronnie Garvin.

00:55:24I never knew. I didn't know

00:55:26what it was, right?

00:55:28Then I found out, but

00:55:30I knew you got it there.

00:55:32When you worked for me in Smoky Mountain,

00:55:34they had banned

00:55:36the flash paper. It's a magician's trick.

00:55:38It's a paper that is chemically

00:55:40treated and when you touch it with anything

00:55:42that is hot enough to tick

00:55:44it off, then boom, it bursts into lighter

00:55:46than air flame and go boom.

00:55:48Unless it sticks on your face, it's not

00:55:50really good. I burned Ronnie's eyebrows

00:55:52off and his nose hair.

00:55:54He said, make it look good.

00:55:56I had to get your paper when

00:55:58you'd come up to me in Knoxville because

00:56:00they made it illegal in Florida because the bookies

00:56:02were writing the bets on the paper and when

00:56:04the cops would come in, they'd just touch it, boom, it's gone.

00:56:06That's exactly it.

00:56:08You should have

00:56:10tried to figure out a way to have more

00:56:12gimmicks. You never really had the fire

00:56:14and the snakes.

00:56:16And the spike.

00:56:18When Eddie had

00:56:20died, this was January of

00:56:2285, right?

00:56:24The territory was doing reasonably

00:56:26well but

00:56:28did you talk to anybody down there at the time?

00:56:30What did the guys think?

00:56:32What was in everybody's

00:56:34mind? Is this the end? What's going to go on?

00:56:36Who's going to carry the flag?

00:56:38I

00:56:40think they

00:56:42thought that Dusty was going to come back.

00:56:44And he was already working

00:56:46for Crockett. They thought he was coming

00:56:48back. In fact,

00:56:50he kind of gave

00:56:52indications that he was coming back to

00:56:54Mike.

00:56:56They thought Dusty was going to come back.

00:56:58Everything was going to be okay.

00:57:00I was outside

00:57:02the territory. Mike was trying

00:57:04to run it by himself and he had

00:57:06Hero and Duke

00:57:08on his shoulder every day.

00:57:10So that

00:57:12was January. I think

00:57:14in May

00:57:16Hero called me and said,

00:57:18we need you to come back. So I came

00:57:20back. But when I

00:57:22came back, I knew without

00:57:24Eddie at the helm and making deals

00:57:26and talking

00:57:28it was really easy for me

00:57:30to see because I pick

00:57:32up a Tampa Tribune one day

00:57:34and it's Tuesday and there's not an ad

00:57:36in the paper. There's not

00:57:38any kind of byline

00:57:40or anything. And I said,

00:57:42without him

00:57:44it's going to be tough. And it was.

00:57:46And then they

00:57:48made the deal with Crockett.

00:57:50That was less

00:57:52than two years later.

00:57:54I'm not knocking anybody

00:57:56but they were green kids, right?

00:57:58They had seen who

00:58:00you said had been there.

00:58:02And that's the

00:58:04midnight I first went down to Florida at that

00:58:06point. We had made maybe a shot or two when they

00:58:08did some co-promotions but I never got to work for

00:58:10Eddie Graham. Never got to meet Eddie Graham.

00:58:12He was at Jerry Jarrett's house warming.

00:58:14Six weeks before I became a manager, I'm just there

00:58:16taking pictures and I see Eddie Graham

00:58:18and Bill Watts was there. I'm like,

00:58:20who the fuck am I? It's not like today

00:58:22where the schlub

00:58:24that sets up the ring, when the owner of the

00:58:26company comes in, the ring guy has to come up

00:58:28and make sure to shake your hand. Hello!

00:58:30Where'd this handshake thing

00:58:32come from? When you first got into business

00:58:34would you have gone over and interrupted Eddie Graham

00:58:36and Hiro Matsuda? No. Would I have gone

00:58:38up in the corner and Jimmy Crockett and Dusty Rhodes

00:58:40are huddled up like this and I'm going to come from

00:58:42the back and come over to shake their hand and say

00:58:44yeah, I'm interrupting your conversation

00:58:46but I just want you to know I'm in the building. Where the fuck did

00:58:48this shit come from? I have no idea.

00:58:50But anyway, I digress. The point

00:58:52is,

00:58:54so it was a couple of years after that and

00:58:56Crockett bought it. He tried

00:58:58to keep, for a while

00:59:00it's separate because he was trying

00:59:02to collect the television

00:59:04stations and television

00:59:06coverage that Central States had

00:59:08and Florida had and UWF had

00:59:10so he could put the syndicated package together

00:59:12but it didn't work.

00:59:14That's the first time

00:59:16we got to work with Mike Graham.

00:59:18And I've got to be honest, I'd seen

00:59:20him, I saw him at the show in Memphis

00:59:22a couple of times. I'd seen him on TV but I thought

00:59:24well, you know, he's the boss' son

00:59:26and he's never really been anywhere else

00:59:28and he didn't have to be.

00:59:30But the first thing he said was it was him

00:59:32and Rex King, little Rex King, nobody believed

00:59:34whipped cream with an outboard motor.

00:59:36And first thing he said was

00:59:38I'm going to do the

00:59:40job because if you beat him it won't mean anything.

00:59:42Second thing, get

00:59:44the heat on me and give him a false

00:59:46tag, let him have a little comeback.

00:59:48He did the whole thing and set

00:59:50the whole thing up. His work was tremendous

00:59:52but it looked like he had, he

00:59:54pretty much had the whole match because Rex was just

00:59:56underneath at that point.

00:59:58Either we got the heat on him or he

01:00:00was shining or whatever and at the end he's making it

01:00:02and then he starts his own comeback

01:00:04and the finish, as I jump

01:00:06up on the apron to scream at the referee

01:00:08he's going to roll

01:00:10one of my guys up, my guy drops

01:00:12flat and he runs and I throw up my racket

01:00:14at the last second and he runs head first into

01:00:16the loaded racket, knocks himself out and the Midnight Express

01:00:18beat him. So he

01:00:20did most of the shine, we got the

01:00:22heat on him, false tag

01:00:24he made his own comeback and beat

01:00:26himself and we got over and

01:00:28he's a tremendous worker and everybody

01:00:30looked like a million dollars. And I said

01:00:32okay, now I see where he got

01:00:34it from and what the whole thing

01:00:36about Mike was. So that was

01:00:38an eye opener. Well I'll tell

01:00:40you how good a guy he was

01:00:42was when

01:00:44we were tag team

01:00:46champions, or when we

01:00:48were tagging, I

01:00:50dropped the fall for two years

01:00:52okay. When I

01:00:54went off on my own and

01:00:56went to Atlanta, TV champion

01:00:58and Knoxville and different places

01:01:00Mike would make sure that they

01:01:02booked him against me

01:01:04and he'd do the job for me

01:01:06I mean I did it in about five or six

01:01:08territories with him. So

01:01:10he was trying to pay me back for

01:01:12my hard work for him and you know

01:01:14not many guys do that

01:01:16you know what I mean, especially like you said the boss's

01:01:18son and he didn't have to do

01:01:20this, he didn't even have to work. I bet George Goulas

01:01:22never did that. No, the

01:01:24jet set

01:01:26he had Bobby Eaton to lose all the falls

01:01:28and do all the work. Alright

01:01:30in Florida or then maybe outside

01:01:32of Florida

01:01:34who's your favorite opponent, who's the best guy you ever worked

01:01:36with to make money or to have fun and who's the best

01:01:38wrestler you've seen?

01:01:40Best wrestler? Yeah, in your

01:01:42opinion. Ray Stephens, Johnny

01:01:44Valentine, real thin line

01:01:46I mean

01:01:48Mark Lewins up there, Babyface

01:01:50of the Hill, you know

01:01:52and I'm going to throw some names out for people

01:01:54that never get

01:01:56the nod. Brad Armstrong was

01:01:58yeah

01:02:00he was great

01:02:02Ray Stephens was another

01:02:04really good guy. I was in San Francisco

01:02:06and I got a little break there

01:02:08and they brought him in to be

01:02:10my partner and

01:02:12you get to team with Ray Stephens

01:02:14in San Francisco. Yeah

01:02:16so I came up

01:02:18to him and I said Ray

01:02:20they want

01:02:22a DQ

01:02:24and because we were against the

01:02:26Bronners and they were

01:02:28the champs, I said they want a DQ

01:02:30what if I sell for you

01:02:32give you a tag and what do you think

01:02:34we could use for a finish? He said no you got it all

01:02:36wrong on that. Oh geez.

01:02:38He said I'm selling for you, this is your town

01:02:40now, you make the comeback

01:02:42we'll end up going to the floor

01:02:44both of them will have a count out. He said

01:02:46but you make the comeback and he went out and sold

01:02:48and I'm in the ring

01:02:50and Rick I'm sorry

01:02:52but that ain't the

01:02:54upside down bump

01:02:56that is not the upside down bump

01:02:58and I mean I was watching him

01:03:00it was like watching a river

01:03:02and this at the time he'd been wrestling

01:03:04for 25 years or 30

01:03:06at that point. Yeah

01:03:08and another guy. You know

01:03:10when everybody

01:03:12does it now, they grab the middle

01:03:14rope and of course Rick goes a little sideways

01:03:16because of his back and I can understand that

01:03:18everybody grabbed it and Michael's made it look so pretty

01:03:20it doesn't hurt, it's all flippy floppy

01:03:22and everything. But Stevens

01:03:24you couldn't even tell

01:03:26when he turned, like the

01:03:28old fashioned arm whip where they would

01:03:30grab the wrist with both hands and just

01:03:32yank like that and one little yank

01:03:34and somehow he made it visually plausible

01:03:36that just that one

01:03:38little yank as he was already running full speed

01:03:40across he would fly upside down, wouldn't grab anything

01:03:42the shoulders would hit the middle, the ass would

01:03:44hit the top, he'd go up over

01:03:46and come back, boom, just instantly

01:03:48and you'd, what the hell, how did that happen?

01:03:50It was amazing. I mean

01:03:52I've been lucky

01:03:54and you have too Jimmy, we've seen

01:03:56some, you had, I mean

01:03:58Bobby, okay. Yeah

01:04:00but we've seen some great

01:04:02performers in our day and they're all

01:04:04different, you know what I mean, even though

01:04:06the chic was violence

01:04:08you have to be a great performer to stay

01:04:10that long. And in his younger

01:04:12days he was a hell of an athlete

01:04:14and showed that, it's just as he got older

01:04:16that's what worked for it.

01:04:18But the other one is Valentine, you know

01:04:20it took him a while to get over

01:04:22because he was so believable

01:04:24he beat you to death, but I

01:04:26was in St. Louis with him one time

01:04:28and you know, going to St.

01:04:30Louis was a big deal, right, for anybody

01:04:32and I always

01:04:34got along good with him

01:04:36I actually went 15 minutes with him on

01:04:38TV when it was Beat the Champ, the

01:04:40Silver Dollars, came over to me and said

01:04:42you think you can

01:04:44carry me for 15 minutes?

01:04:46I went, what? He said, yeah we're gonna go

01:04:48through 15 minutes. And he

01:04:50was going for the elbow and I was just

01:04:52like move, move, you know

01:04:54and he was whacking me and I'd fight back

01:04:56but I would talk to him

01:04:58about psychology sometimes and I said

01:05:00Johnny, how do you

01:05:02do it, you know, go on, I'm stupid

01:05:04let me in on it

01:05:06he said, I'll show you tonight.

01:05:08He goes out and he had that

01:05:10black robe and he looked terrific, you know

01:05:12Johnny looked like a wrestler, didn't he?

01:05:14You know what I mean? And he takes off the robe

01:05:16The atomic blonde. Yeah

01:05:18as he's taking off the robe

01:05:20he looks, stops

01:05:22taking off the robe

01:05:24and he's looking up at the top balcony

01:05:26in St. Louis

01:05:28So I'm saying, what the hell is he looking at?

01:05:30And I see about, just like right here

01:05:32the four guys start

01:05:34screaming, what the fuck's he looking at, right?

01:05:36Yeah.

01:05:38So when he took off the robe

01:05:40he had them ready to jump off the balcony

01:05:42and it was just that eye contact

01:05:44he looked so

01:05:46vicious, you know what I mean? Yeah.

01:05:48It's kind of scary, you're like a bad dog, you know what I mean?

01:05:50He looked like a bad dog

01:05:52I mean, he was amazing. And also part of that art is

01:05:54making the people

01:05:56notice what you're looking at

01:05:58without letting them

01:06:00know that you're wanting them to notice

01:06:02what you're looking at. So you look and he's

01:06:04a little double taking you

01:06:06you can't resist, you have to look

01:06:08more and then all of a sudden you start getting hot about it.

01:06:10And now you're laughing

01:06:12people are like, what's he looking at?

01:06:14And by the time you get, it could be

01:06:16nobody up there, but like that

01:06:18now they're fucking hot, you're looking at nothing!

01:06:20Yeah. But you can't

01:06:22let them know that you're wanting them to eavesdrop

01:06:24on you, they have to be catching you

01:06:26something, doing something that

01:06:28you know what I'm saying. And this is what I

01:06:30think's wrong with the business, they

01:06:32never got

01:06:34the rub with

01:06:36the guys that they should have.

01:06:38We lost a generation.

01:06:40We lost a generation in all that bullshit in the 90's

01:06:42and

01:06:44the guys that knew how to do it

01:06:46were making a lot of money and didn't really

01:06:48particularly give a shit, some of them, about

01:06:50bringing the other guys up, didn't want to lose a spot

01:06:52and a lot of the guys

01:06:54just went home.

01:06:56The promoters that knew

01:06:58how to do all this stuff, they said okay

01:07:00well we got our money or we lost our money, but one way or another

01:07:02we're at home, we'll see you later.

01:07:04And

01:07:06you know, we lost a generation, now they all

01:07:08started trying to figure it out for themselves, but they're like

01:07:10going back trying to find that missing link,

01:07:12where did we go? But anyway,

01:07:14regardless, we have taken

01:07:16a trip to Championship Wrestling

01:07:18from Florida, and before we close

01:07:20out this marathon edition of everything you

01:07:22wanted to know about everything we've ever talked

01:07:24about, what's your favorite

01:07:26Florida memory and

01:07:28what do you think

01:07:30what's your favorite Florida memory and what

01:07:32would have happened if Eddie Graham had lived?

01:07:34How long would Florida wrestling have

01:07:36gone on before

01:07:38the eventual happened? I think

01:07:40he might have been able to work

01:07:42out something with Vince, you know what I mean?

01:07:44I think he might have said, hey listen,

01:07:46you're going to need a place to send

01:07:48guys, send me a few

01:07:50guys like, you know, Smokey Mountain,

01:07:52OBW,

01:07:54I think he might have been able to. And how old was he?

01:07:56He was 50 something at the time?

01:07:58Mid, late 50s? He wasn't that old?

01:08:00He was 54 or

01:08:025. Yeah, so

01:08:04that was in 1985.

01:08:06He would have been,

01:08:08he was Pat Patterson's age. Yeah.

01:08:10He would have been 70 during the Attitude Era.

01:08:12Can you imagine Eddie Graham giving finishes

01:08:14to Stone Cold Steve Austin in The Rock? That would be incredible.

01:08:16I think I just got a stiffy.

01:08:20Kevin, thank you very much.

01:08:22So long from the Sunshine

01:08:24State of Florida.

01:08:54music

01:08:56music

01:08:58music

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