Waqf Amendment Act 2024: The Pros & Cons Of Modi Govt. Contentious Move| Exclusive Chat
The Modi 3.0 government has introduced the controversial Waqf Amendment Act 2024, sparking intense debate across India. Renowned analyst Atiq Ur Rehman and BJP’s Sharad Trivedi Spars over the bill. Does this bill threaten to shift the balance of power over religious endowments? The new legislation has ignited concerns among religious leaders, who fear it may divide the country along religious lines.
#WaqfAmendmentAct #WaqfAct2024 #PMModi #Modi3.0 #WaqfProperty #Indianews #Oneindia #Oneindianews
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#WaqfAmendmentAct #WaqfAct2024 #PMModi #Modi3.0 #WaqfProperty #Indianews #Oneindia #Oneindianews
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NewsTranscript
00:00Namaskar! Welcome to OneIndia. I am Yogi Shanta and I am joined by Yogi Keshav Karan.
00:07We are joined by you today because the work board amendment bill 2024 has been presented in the Lok Sabha.
00:17It has been discussed and discussed.
00:20Both the parties have put forth their arguments.
00:23It is being said that it will be sent to the Joint Parliamentary Committee where it will be discussed.
00:28It was a request from the opposition.
00:30Kiran Rajji said that he himself is proposing that it will be sent.
00:34But why is there a commotion regarding this bill?
00:37What are its priorities?
00:39What can be the losses? What can be the benefits?
00:42And how does this work board work?
00:46We will try to understand this.
00:48We have two special guests with us.
00:50Atikur Rehman is an Islamic scholar and political analyst.
00:53Welcome Atikur Rehman.
00:56Along with him is Sharad Trivedi who is also a political analyst.
01:02And in a way, he is also on the side of the BJP.
01:08You are also very welcome, Sharad.
01:13So, let's start with you, Sharad.
01:17It is being said that the government is being questioned.
01:24Although, Mr. Kiran Rajji spoke for a long time in the Parliament.
01:27He gave a lot of clarification and said a lot of things about this bill.
01:31But still, it is questionable.
01:33And after presenting the bill, it is being said that it will be sent to the JPC.
01:39But the accusation is that if all this had been done earlier,
01:42then such a situation would not have arisen.
01:44You people do not listen.
01:46First, you have to step back.
01:48Look, the story of this work board started in India in 1954.
01:55And in 1954, Nehru ji, who was the original founder of secularism in India,
02:00he said that the Enemy Properties Act that was made,
02:04that the people who had gone to Pakistan during the partition from India,
02:09the land of the Indians who had come from Pakistan was being given to them.
02:14Because the land and houses were limited,
02:17so the Pakistanis said that the property of the refugees would be given to them,
02:23who had become refugees from India.
02:29And the same thing happened that the Enemy Properties Act was introduced in India,
02:33in which the refugees who had come from Pakistan,
02:36who were settled in Punjab, Uttar Pradesh, Bangalore,
02:41the land was of the Muslims.
02:46So the land of the Muslims was brought by the law to save it from the powers of the sects,
02:53so that the sectarian people do not settle there,
02:55and secular people should settle there, and a secular organization should be formed,
02:58which would take over all these lands.
03:00So it was made for this reason.
03:02After that, the amendment was made in it,
03:04because the provisions of it were made in the form of our constitution,
03:08that the appellate authority of the constitution,
03:11who will follow the law, who will interpret it,
03:15who will improve it, that will be done in the form of our constitution.
03:18But the grandchildren of his uncle said that secularism is not being completed with this.
03:27So they said that a law should be made to complete secularism,
03:31in which if the work board says that this is our land,
03:35then the land of the work board will be automatic.
03:38If he is saying for the Red Fort, then it is his,
03:40if he is saying that it is the land of the President, then it will happen,
03:44he has no problem.
03:46And if there is any appeal on this, then the appeal will be appealed in the central work board,
03:51it will not go in the normal judicial process.
03:55And the order of the central work board will be final.
04:00After that, it has been done that sir,
04:03that is why you see that there were about 56,000 lands in Barnaul,
04:09that has become 9.5 lakhs of land,
04:11and in today's date, the work board, the army, the defense ministry,
04:17and after the railway ministry, the private organization,
04:21who has the most land, they have it.
04:23You are stopping here.
04:29On this, we would like to know from Mr. Atikur Rahman,
04:33that the claim that Sharad Trivedi is making,
04:35it seems that he is a demon, a work board,
04:38he has unlimited powers.
04:40Is this so, Mr. Rahman?
04:43I was listening to Mr. Sharad very carefully.
04:46A lot of the things that Mr. Sharad said are also true.
04:50And BJP is also presenting some things like deceit.
04:53Are you able to hear me?
04:55Yes, of course.
04:57So see, what Jawaharlal Nehru did,
05:01what his grandchildren did,
05:04you have the golden time,
05:06the BJP government has it, the Modi government has it.
05:09Do it, it is a good thing.
05:11Now the question arises, see what is this work board?
05:16From 1930 till now,
05:19let me tell you that at least two dozen amendments have come in it.
05:23This is not the first amendment.
05:25And under every amendment,
05:27the powers of the governments have increased on the work boards,
05:32not decreased.
05:34Its chairman is appointed by the government,
05:37its members are appointed by the government,
05:40the state chief minister's yes-man becomes its chairman.
05:45Its puppets become its members.
05:48Till date, no one has told me,
05:51that the work board has ever done any good for a Muslim,
05:57a common Muslim.
05:59What is a waqf?
06:01I, for example,
06:03after distributing my property to my children,
06:09if there is a lot of land, property,
06:12then in the name of Allah,
06:14I donated it,
06:16so that it can be of use to my nation,
06:19to the Muslims.
06:21It so happened that the governments made a waqf board,
06:26and made a big claim that we will channelize it very well.
06:31It so happened that as I said,
06:33its chairman, its members,
06:35all of them became government's yes-men.
06:38And in front of our eyes,
06:40at least in Mumbai, we saw that,
06:42by the hands of big people,
06:45by the hands of industrialists,
06:47its land, the chairman of the waqf board,
06:50its members,
06:51distributed it night and day.
06:53The benefit that came from it,
06:55where did that benefit go? No one knows.
06:57So the claim is being made,
06:59that this is for the benefit of the Muslims.
07:04So the crime, the corruption,
07:07its procedure of crime is gone.
07:10Well, Mr. Adhikar Raman Sahab,
07:13I'll just introduce a point here for you, a question.
07:17Like you have said,
07:19so far, the waqf board had not functioned
07:23for the good of the common Muslim.
07:27So do you really think this is the time
07:29to bring the positive reforms to the waqf board,
07:33and this government is moving positively
07:35in that particular direction?
07:40Very good question, sir.
07:42Now, we need an amendment.
07:45As I said, this is not the first amendment.
07:48This will be, I suppose, the 25th or the 26th amendment
07:51in the waqf.
07:53If the BJP government really wants to build bridges
07:58between the Muslim community and the BJP government,
08:02this can prove to be a milestone.
08:04No doubt about that.
08:06So far, what is the track record of the BJP government?
08:10The Prime Minister himself has called us
08:13guzpatiyas, zyade bacche pehda karne wale,
08:16kapo se pehchane jane wale.
08:18The UP Chief Minister calls us names.
08:22The Assam Chief Minister calls us names.
08:25Fine, fine, fine.
08:27Look at the central government.
08:29You know, the track record of the BJP
08:32is not a good track record with the community,
08:35the Muslim community.
08:36So you are telling us, and the various other platforms
08:40are telling the Muslims to be positive.
08:42Yes, we are positive.
08:44Tell me one element, what did Minister Kiran Rajivji
08:48propose today?
08:50Was there an element of positivity?
08:53If there would have been an element of positivity,
08:57they would have said that we will be doing this.
09:00Out of this, there will be an income.
09:02Out of the income, there will be good colleges and hospitals
09:05and this and that.
09:06No.
09:07That's why it was sent to the JPC.
09:09The JPC let it decide.
09:11We are not hopeful.
09:13Why we are not hopeful?
09:15Because I do not believe in the BJP
09:20because the BJP's track record with the community
09:23is not good.
09:25That's what I expect to be good.
09:27I'm telling you, this can prove to be a milestone.
09:30Okay, we'll go to the next speaker, Mr. Sharadji,
09:33to know what is the positive points in this amendment.
09:37But before that, could you please also take us through
09:40what is wrong in this amendment?
09:42What is the objection?
09:44And why?
09:46You're asking me?
09:48Yes, sir.
09:49Yes.
09:50No, to be true, I have not read the bill.
09:53I don't know what the propositions are in the bill.
09:55I don't know the parliamentary proceedings.
09:58As it went out, the opposition was claiming that they are interfering.
10:02There is nothing religious in the Vax Act.
10:06The only element of religiosity is that the Muslims have donated their land.
10:11Beyond that, everything is political and corrupt.
10:14So, Sharadji, our fellow speaker, Mr. Atikur Rahman
10:19has raised some points
10:21and he doubts the intent of the BJP government.
10:24By the way, could you please take us through
10:27what are the positive points in this amendment?
10:30And what were the main reasons
10:33that so many powers will change because of this?
10:37Why should they change?
10:39No, no. See, first of all,
10:42I have not taken the name of a Muslim anywhere in my speech or discussion.
10:47I have only said that our problem is of the secular front.
10:50The problem is not of the Muslims.
10:52Our secularism was about to be killed by three divorces.
10:56The Muslims have benefited from three divorces.
10:59Today, the Muslim women have got their rights.
11:02This problem is of the secular front.
11:05Now, you see, the bill that came out,
11:08the Muslims followed it completely.
11:11But the lawyer of the secular party went to take a stay
11:15because secularism is in danger from this.
11:19See, this bill is also specific.
11:22Obviously, it is a specific bill for the community.
11:25It is a specific bill for their property.
11:27This is what we want to understand from you.
11:29Where and why did the need for change increase in this?
11:32And were there such initiatives that were very bad?
11:36And what are the new initiatives now?
11:39And how will they give Muslims their right in a positive way?
11:42On whose side is Atifur Rahman?
11:44Atifur Rahman is also saying that he is also looking for positive changes.
11:49I am one with Shafiqo Rahman on the ground
11:53that it has nothing to do with Muslims.
11:56It has only got to do with the secular parties.
11:58And in this case, the amendment has been brought for a judicial oversight.
12:02Earlier, you could only go to the work board.
12:04And the work board was totally staffed by one particular community.
12:09So, the people of one community are there.
12:12Secondly, if you want to appeal, you can only go to the work board.
12:16You cannot go to the civil court.
12:18In military tribunals, all orders passed by military tribunals are subject to judicial oversight.
12:24They can go and appeal.
12:26The court marshals go and appeal.
12:28But work board laws cannot be appealed against.
12:31If anybody declares any property as the property of the work board, there is no appeal.
12:37They are acting as judge, advocate, and executioner.
12:40That is the problem.
12:41So, we are going to have a judicial oversight.
12:43It is going to ensure gender injustice because there will be certain seats reserved for women.
12:48And there will be participation.
12:50Like we had the Samajwadi Party.
12:54One of their ministers was in charge of the Kumbh Mela in Allahabad.
13:00Azam Khan Sahib was in charge of Kumbh Mela.
13:06But here in this case, only Muslims will decide.
13:09The appeal will go to the Muslims and Muslims will declare that the property is there or not.
13:15Like the whole thing came out in the case of Tamil Nadu.
13:19Entire village by the name of Chandurai was declared as a Waqf property.
13:26And there was a temple out there which predated Islam by about 200 years.
13:30They declared it and that was final.
13:34I think there is a rebuttal coming from Mr. Atifur Rahman.
13:37A boundary wall.
13:39And the work board said it is their property.
13:41Then they had to go and appeal.
13:43So, if it is not under the 9th schedule, even if it is under the 9th schedule of the constitution,
13:48still the appeal can be filed.
13:49The Supreme Court has said that we are going to have a judicial oversight.
13:52This case is now going to be open.
13:55There will be general participation.
13:57There will be a reservation for women.
13:59And they will be subject to normal judicial scrutiny.
14:03And investigation agencies can also do that.
14:06As I can give you an example, Mr. Amanullah Khan, the minister in Delhi,
14:11is in prison because he was fabricating documents, leasing out Waqf board property for commercial purposes.
14:18Mr. Rahman, you wanted to say something.
14:25The decision taken by the Waqf board or any property,
14:32whether it is a non-Hindu or a Muslim property,
14:35there is a use of the word capture on it.
14:38After that, there cannot be a judicial review, as Mr. Trivedi is saying.
14:43Is all this such a hit?
14:45Of course. I will also add two questions to this.
14:47So, there are lots of myths about the Waqf board.
14:52There is lots of misinformation also, I can say.
14:55If the Waqf board says that this pen belongs to the Waqf board,
14:59then it will belong to the Waqf board.
15:01Is there a need for a written deed?
15:04And the third and most pertinent point, as Mr. Sharad Trivedi was raising,
15:08does the Waqf board have non-Muslims in its tribunal?
15:14Or how can its decision be challenged?
15:17Or not?
15:19With regards to Mr. Sharad,
15:21I do not agree with this particular element.
15:24I will not agree that it cannot be challenged.
15:26If that was the case,
15:28yes, there is a provision in it.
15:30Some lawyers say on some other platforms,
15:33they were mentioning a particular provision wherein that
15:36the Waqf board is having ultimate powers
15:39and once they decide upon a particular land,
15:42that cannot be challenged.
15:43If that was true,
15:45when the Waqf board claimed on the Surat Municipal Corporation,
15:49the Surat Municipal Corporation and the Gujarat government,
15:52they went to the tribunal,
15:54the common courts in our country,
15:56and their ruling came in favour of the Surat Municipal Corporation.
16:00The Waqf board lost the case.
16:02If this was the truth,
16:04then the Tamil Nadu village that is being handed over,
16:08is it in the hands of the Waqf?
16:11And if it is,
16:13my question to the governments of earlier
16:17and this government also since 10 years is,
16:20that the proceeds of the crime has gone to whom?
16:25The proceeds of crime has not gone to the Muslim community per se.
16:31The proceeds of crime has gone to the state governments,
16:35the chairmen, the chief ministers,
16:37whatever the elements were there.
16:41So if this is a correct measure,
16:44and they want to remove this particular,
16:46well and good.
16:47How?
16:48How this will be enhancing,
16:50the Muslim community getting benefits out of,
16:54say for example,
16:55BJP was telling us on another platform,
16:59that schools should have been built,
17:01colleges should have been built,
17:02hospitals should have been built.
17:03So is there a provision in the current amendment,
17:06where a particular land will be made into a school,
17:10into a college,
17:11into a hospital,
17:12and will only benefit the Muslim community?
17:15How is it?
17:16Because the land that I have donated,
17:18I have donated it in the name of Allah.
17:21The way it is said,
17:23that a particular temple,
17:25whether it is Gyanwapi,
17:27or Ayodhya,
17:28that case was filed by Ram Lalla Viraj Mal.
17:31In the same way,
17:32is Allah going to file this case,
17:34on that particular temple?
17:37So my concern is this.
17:39Okay.
18:10Look,
18:11I have already said,
18:12that this has nothing to do with Muslims.
18:15This is the prima facie fact.
18:18The thing is,
18:19that this fight is only because,
18:23of the unfettered powers,
18:25who have the power to make one-sided decisions.
18:29The land that is being misused,
18:33is not being used for Muslims.
18:35This is what the Kurds themselves are saying.
18:37This is just a way for the land mafia,
18:39to take over.
18:41If there is any such property,
18:43then the government takes it.
18:44If I want to take over,
18:46I live in Noida,
18:47I want to take over,
18:48or if a cart-man puts up a cart,
18:50then the Noida authority will take it the next day.
18:53But here,
18:54if someone takes over like this,
18:56declares,
18:57then you keep fighting for years,
18:59it doesn't matter.
19:00And I am saying,
19:01that the intent of legislation,
19:03as Atiq-ur-Rehman said,
19:05even after this,
19:06people went for the appeal,
19:07but the intent of legislation was,
19:09that there should not be an appeal.
19:10The intent of legislation was,
19:12that a one-sided power should be given,
19:14which will be misused.
19:16If it is used,
19:18then it is a common legal system.
19:20But again,
19:21let me add a point here.
19:26Sir,
19:27when in the existing setup,
19:29there was already a scope for legal review,
19:32then what changes are being brought?
19:35And what was the need for the changes that are being brought?
19:38No, look,
19:39these changes were needed because,
19:41as I have told you,
19:42in Tamil Nadu,
19:43that temple,
19:44which was the temple before the advent of Islam,
19:47the temple before the advent of the Prophet,
19:49200 years ago,
19:50even that,
19:51if it is the property of the work board,
19:52how did this come to light?
19:53Because in this way,
19:54a lot of legislation comes,
19:55your brute majority,
19:56you pass it and go home.
19:58But this case,
19:59some such glaring cases have come,
20:01there is a public sector undertaking in Rajasthan,
20:03they were making their wall,
20:04the work board said,
20:05no, sir,
20:06this land is ours.
20:07So the PSU went to the Supreme Court,
20:09took an order from the Supreme Court,
20:10that no, sir,
20:11this is wrong,
20:12and you can definitely make land.
20:13So this provision,
20:14which can be sorted out at the level of district administration,
20:18is now going straight to the tribunal and the Supreme Court.
20:21If in Noida,
20:22or in GDA,
20:23or in the location of the Delhi Development Authority,
20:27or if there is any such place under the jurisdiction,
20:31notice is given and it is terminated in half an hour.
20:34But actually nothing changes.
20:41But even in this case, sir,
20:42if the district collector passes,
20:50the other side can move to the high court,
20:54to the Supreme Court.
20:55So there is endless legal reviews,
21:00provisions are already been granted.
21:03So this will still work.
21:05First you used to go against the decision of the tribunal,
21:08now your other party will go against the decision of the DC,
21:13in the high court,
21:14in the Supreme Court.
21:15Look,
21:16this is the intent that if it can be sorted out at the lower level,
21:20then at the lower level,
21:21at the level of district magistrate,
21:23at the level of SDM,
21:24there are many problems that can be solved by talking.
21:28For that,
21:29already 3.5 crore cases are pending in the Supreme Court.
21:33Thousands of crores of cases are pending in the High Court.
21:36So instead of burdening it,
21:37it has been simplified.
21:38You are talking about arbitration.
21:40The way of arbitration.
21:41The way of legal occupation that you have given,
21:43that should not be there.
21:44And the criminal elements that come in this,
21:47what is mafia?
21:48Mafia is organized controlled crime.
21:51So where you have given such a controlling authority,
21:54absurd power,
21:55which,
21:56as I told you,
21:57even the Armed Forces Tribunal does not have the power
22:00that their authority is final.
22:01They also come under judicial review.
22:03But the intent of legislation that they had,
22:05that sir,
22:06this matter will be suppressed here,
22:08what they have said is final.
22:09After 35 years,
22:12it has been revealed that how this mess happened,
22:15when all such absurd things,
22:17200 years old,
22:19200 years old temple since the advent of Islam,
22:21and the whole village has been declared a Wax Board property.
22:24Okay.
22:25Mr. Rehman.
22:26See,
22:27when there were frauds in many corporate sectors,
22:30there were corruptions.
22:32So RBI said that where there is money, there is corruption.
22:35Our country runs in this way.
22:37And then it has to take corrective measures.
22:39I want to draw your attention to the cases of the temple trust,
22:43which have gone to the High Courts and Supreme Courts so far.
22:46Especially,
22:47those who come to the temples of South India,
22:50what have we seen in that?
22:52I have seen the ruling of the High Courts and Supreme Courts.
22:54I have seen this ruling,
22:56that whatever corruption has been found in the temple trust,
23:00the misappropriation of funds has been found,
23:03the government should correct it,
23:05change those members,
23:07make new bodies,
23:09and return the temple trust to the community.
23:13Will this be the same thing here?
23:16Well and good?
23:17My only concern is this,
23:20that the Muslims who have donated their property
23:25for the welfare of the Muslim community,
23:28will they get the benefit of it or not?
23:31Now if we are talking about the collector,
23:34then all these powers are just being transferred.
23:38There is no benefit of it.
23:42So if the government brings clarification on this,
23:47then yes,
23:48the benefit of this will reach the community.
23:51And all these things will be returned to the community
23:54with complete government control.
23:57Well and good?
23:58Okay.
23:59Mr. Trivedi,
24:00in the end,
24:01we will not take up much of your time.
24:03We want to know that
24:05if this bill was to be brought,
24:08and was to be sent to the JPC,
24:10and to be passed,
24:12it will have to go through both parties.
24:15So if the government was so confident about this bill,
24:20then we could have presented it today itself
24:23and asked them to pass it.
24:25Definitely.
24:26But do you think there are some principles in this bill
24:29that still need to be considered?
24:34We don't need to think about it
24:36because our party brought the bill.
24:38But if our other MPs and MPs want to discuss this,
24:44then we are ready for that.
24:46We are ready for an open discussion.
24:48And let me tell you that
24:50all the work that the BJP has done for the Muslims,
24:54that has never happened in history.
24:56Today, 75,000 extra pilgrims are going,
24:59because Modi ji spoke to the Saudi king,
25:01who used to go for 1.25 lakh,
25:02today he is going for 2 lakh.
25:04Well, Mr. Trivedi,
25:06I also have a point to add here.
25:10Sir, I also have a point to add to Mr. Yogesh's question.
25:14You bring a bill for the harmers,
25:17the harmers are not happy with it.
25:19You bring the Agnipath Yojana,
25:21the youth are not happy with it.
25:23You bring a bill for the common good of the Muslims
25:28in the Waqf Award for the amendment.
25:34The Muslim communities are not satisfied with it.
25:37After all, why is there no common consensus or consultation
25:43before bringing such bills?
25:49If this has happened,
25:51then this should also be discussed at the Parliament.
25:53When the bill has been presented,
25:55after that it has to be sent to the JPC,
25:57it has to be sent to the Standing Committee.
26:00We brought 370,
26:03there was also a violation of that.
26:05We brought 3 divorce bills,
26:06there was also a violation of that.
26:07But what is the result of that,
26:09that is in front of you.
26:10So if in such an amendment,
26:12where the farmer's bill,
26:14even today we are saying that the farmer's bill,
26:16if you discuss it,
26:18then I will tell you that this bill was brought in 1883.
26:22No, there is no question of your intent.
26:25Those who want to do it,
26:27they are not happy.
26:28No, no, we are ready for discussion after that.
26:32If people do not agree,
26:33then we have returned the farmer's bill.
26:35The bill was correct,
26:36but if people are not ready to agree
26:38that we could not explain to them in their favor,
26:40we failed in that,
26:42then we are ready to take it back.
26:44If, as you can see now,
26:46the amendment to the Agnipat bill is also being done.
26:50A new law has been brought.
26:54There are many things in it.
26:56There should be a consultation process in the future,
26:58but here the process is the opposite.
27:00Here the process is the opposite,
27:02that first there is an attempt to take a blow,
27:04then there is resistance,
27:05then things are consulted on it,
27:07then amendments are made.
27:08Anyway, one last comment,
27:10Mr. Atikur Rahman,
27:11in this bill,
27:12are you seeing anything good,
27:14which may be better,
27:16or is there a need for a lot of change in this?
27:19No, look,
27:20the things that have come up so far,
27:22the amendments that have come up,
27:24as I said,
27:25all the amendments that have come up so far,
27:27the government has increased control over it.
27:29The government has not increased its control over it.
27:32If this is their intention,
27:34then it is going to fail.
27:35The community will not support it.
27:36The opposition members will not support it.
27:38And if the government really has a positive approach to this,
27:42then as I said,
27:43you will have to decide
27:45that Muslims should have their own land for Muslims.
27:49The way the Temple Trust money is used for Hindus,
27:53their schools and colleges are built,
27:55in the same way,
27:56Muslims want their land to be built.
27:58And the Satchar community is being handed over,
28:00there was a provision for it,
28:02that the Muslim community should get benefit
28:04out of the work properties.
28:06Okay.
28:07But you are agreeing with this, Mr. Rahman,
28:09I am asking again,
28:10that what is going on so far,
28:12it is not going well.
28:14No, no.
28:15They were into corruption,
28:17they are deep into corruption.
28:19No doubt about that.
28:20Thank you very much.
28:21Thank you very much, Mr. Rahman, Mr. Shrivastav Reddy,
28:23thank you very much for taking out your time.
28:25I hope that when we go to the JPC,
28:27there will be a serious discussion on this,
28:29and after that,
28:30this law will be made for betterment.
28:33Thank you very much.
28:34Thank you, sir.