'Enabling Repression From Ecuador To Kenya To Pakistan': Schatz Warns Of PRC Facial Recognition AI

3 months ago

Prior to the Congressional recess, during a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing, Sen. Brian Schatz (D-HI) questioned Deputy Secretary of State Kurt Campbell about surveillance technology, and Chinese facial recognition AI.

Fuel your success with Forbes. Gain unlimited access to premium journalism, including breaking news, groundbreaking in-depth reported stories, daily digests and more. Plus, members get a front-row seat at members-only events with leading thinkers and doers, access to premium video that can help you get ahead, an ad-light experience, early access to select products including NFT drops and more:

https://account.forbes.com/membership/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=growth_non-sub_paid_subscribe_ytdescript

Stay Connected
Forbes on Facebook: http://fb.com/forbes
Forbes Video on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/forbes
Forbes Video on Instagram: http://instagram.com/forbes
More From Forbes: http://forbes.com

Transcript

00:00Thank you, Chairman.

00:02Thank you for being here.

00:03I appreciate it.

00:04I want to talk to you about surveillance and the Internet of Things.

00:10As you know, the PRC is exporting facial recognition, AI technology, enabling repression from Ecuador

00:19to Kenya to Pakistan.

00:20This has huge implications.

00:21And I think this is one of the spaces where they are quietly building partnerships for

00:27surveillance and controlling the domestic political situation.

00:33And it's not obvious to me what the tools are in our toolkit to provide an alternative.

00:38It's not like we're going to say, hey, use our company for AI and surveillance and repression.

00:44But this is an area of expansion, both economic and political, for the PRC.

00:49And I'm wondering how you see it and what we should be doing about it.

00:53So for a while, Senator Strzok, first of all, thank you.

00:57I appreciate the question.

00:59There was a big debate, does China have a model of development or a model of governance

01:07that they are promoting that's comparable to their own?

01:13And lots of debates about that for years.

01:16But now it becomes clear that there are certain ingredients to authoritarian leadership that

01:23they are promoting in a variety of the countries.

01:26You mentioned several, but I'd add others, the Solomons, frankly, elements in Afghanistan.

01:32And as part of that is that they often support a vulnerable elite who is in power.

01:39They provide assistance to that leading group and the people around it.

01:44They provide Praetorian support that allow them through police and others to be protected

01:53from domestic threats.

01:55And they provide technological capacities for...

02:00So the bad news is that's a pretty good value proposition.

02:04So what do we do about it?

02:06And I'll get it.

02:07The value proposition is that we have to be purposeful about recognizing how challenging

02:14it is to make the argument about white democratic institutions, elections, free and fair elections,

02:23and support to governments that emerge through that process.

02:27A lot of times, I'll give you a classic example.

02:31We have a new leader in Senegal, right?

02:35Extremely hopeful.

02:36But he's raised expectations.

02:38And now we're going to have to see whether we can help meet them as he goes against both

02:44forces in his own countries and others that would seek to advance this authoritarian model.

02:52And so, look, I can't tell you, Senator, that there's a perfect answer to every situation.

03:00But I will tell you, I've been to many of these countries, and that model is often domestically

03:06extremely unpopular.

03:09And if we are able to work with key groups in various countries, we can put up an effective

03:17challenge.

03:18I think it's two things.

03:19First of all, you're right.

03:20It's unpopular.

03:21But a lot of times, it's a trap.

03:23And it takes some amount of time for the leader to figure out that it's a trap, that they

03:28are going to be under the thumb of a country overseas.

03:32And then they come back to us and are a little bit more willing to dialogue.

03:35Can I just, two things on that.

03:37That is exactly right.

03:38And I'll give you an example.

03:41When China negotiates these foreign basing, and they often initially describe them as

03:47just, oh, it's just a little, you know, kind of a little dock here.

03:52Before long, local authorities of host nations are unable to get on these bases.

03:57They're not able to actually control their own territory.

04:03That's number one.

04:04Number two, yes, the built and rolled has been substantial.

04:08But many of the processes that the Chinese used in terms of financing in particular,

04:14the bill is coming due in many of these countries.

04:17These were not gifts.

04:19And some of the concessional loans are substantial.

04:23And they have real interest payments.

04:24And the Chinese are not interested in renegotiating.

04:28We can use some of those to our advantage.

04:30So on Belt and Road, just a quick final question.

04:33It seems to me, I mean, look, we as a country started to be alert to Belt and Road.

04:40And I think it precipitated a lot of smart foreign policy actions.

04:45On the other hand, there's part of me that thinks that what China did was two things,

04:49right?

04:50Debt trap diplomacy and what you're talking about, but also just simply over promising.

04:55And I think we've got to get in the habit of talking about not Belt and Road as if it

04:59is some insurmountable perfect strategy, but a little bit of an overextension of political,

05:05like an overreach here that we can take advantage of.

05:08I agree with that.

05:10Senator Shaheen.

'Enabling Repression From Ecuador To Kenya To Pakistan': Schatz Warns Of PRC Facial Recognition AI

Category

Transcript

Recommended