On the 25th anniversary of the Kargil War, Oneindia English's editor Pankaj Mishra hosted a discussion with three distinguished guests: Lt Gen Dr Konsam Himalay Singh (Retd.), Maj. Gen. (Dr) SB Asthana (Retd.), and Major (Dr.) Mohommed Ali Shah (Retd.). These veterans, with extensive military experience including roles in the Kargil War, discussed the war's importance for India and the future of India-Pakistan relations. Their diverse backgrounds and expertise in strategic affairs, combat operations, and regional security provided valuable insights into this significant historical event and its ongoing implications.
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#Kargilwar #25YearsofKargil #Kargilwarlive #KargilMemorial #PMModi #ModiLive #Oneindia #Oneindianews
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00:00Hello and welcome to this very special broadcast on the 25 years of Kargil Vijayadivas.
00:07It was a time that no one would ever forget. A time when the Indian forces jointly pushed back the infiltrators,
00:14the Pakistani regulars from the upper reaches, the higher reaches in the very treacherous mountains of Kargil,
00:21Dras, Batalik and the adjoining regions.
00:24The nation pays tribute to all the soldiers who laid down their lives, made the supreme sacrifice
00:30and today we feel safe, we are safe because of them and because of thousands and thousands of the military armed forces
00:39who are guarding our borders and are enabling the peace and tranquility that we enjoy today.
00:46To discuss the day, to celebrate the day I would say and to pay our rich tributes to the fallen heroes,
00:53it's my honour that today we are joined by Left-Hand General Dr. Kaun Sam Himalaya Singh,
00:58former Left-Hand General of Indian Army, joined Manipur Police Service Commission as Chairman on 17th May 2017.
01:06He is the first North-Eastern Indian to become a Left-Hand General in the Indian Army.
01:12Many thanks for joining us, sir.
01:15Thank you.
01:16Major General Dr. S.B. Asthana, he is also there, Global Strategic and Military Analyst
01:22and Major General Asthana, a former Indian Army officer who played an active role in combat operations
01:28during India's conflict with Pakistan in the Kargil sector of Jammu and Kashmir in 1999
01:33and he has shared a heart-warming story of a soldier who wanted to continue fighting
01:38despite one of his hands getting hit by a series of enemy bullets.
01:42That will be what we will be discussing further.
01:45And last but not the least, Major Dr. Mohammad Ali Shah, former ADC to GOC Spear Corps
01:51and Major Mohammad Ali Shah, a noted face, a noted name and a young talent which inspires many,
01:59who inspires many and he has served with Assam Rifles with distinction.
02:03Major Shah, thank you so much for taking time out.
02:07Let me begin with Left-Hand General Dr. Konsam Himalayasinghe.
02:12Sir, today 25 years have passed on and every year we do remember and reflect on the achievement
02:22that the Indian Armed Forces had.
02:25What has changed in these 25 years, in your opinion, as far as the Defence Forces are concerned,
02:31as far as the unity, the patriotism is concerned?
02:37Firstly, thank you very much for inviting me on this show
02:43and I also express my tribute to all the soldiers who were killed or who were martyred during the war
02:53and to all the soldiers of the Indian Army who fought in the area north of Georgila.
03:02I had the privilege to command a battalion in the Turtuk sector during the period
03:09and also my battalion had captured 0.5770, the highest ever in the history of the Indian Army,
03:2319,000 feet across.
03:26Coming to your question about what has changed.
03:32Actually, the ethos of the Indian Army, the building blocks of the Indian Army,
03:39rather Indian Defence Forces and also the organizational culture that we have imbibed
03:48for a very, very long time continue till this day.
03:54I am very sure that those who are in the helm of affairs, they will continue to preserve
04:01the integrity of Indian Armed Forces so that we rise to the occasion.
04:06I see no reason why any force or any other organization should try and influence
04:17to the contrary.
04:21So, as far as that is concerned, but what has changed in the warfare, in terms of technology,
04:30in terms of other administrative matters is something which is ongoing.
04:36I mean, there are debates about various issues which are in Indian Armed Forces today.
04:42It's a very healthy sign and I welcome it.
04:47But I think in matters of military, in matters of Indian security, in matters of our own
04:58national security, I think we should be very, very circumspect and very careful about each
05:04one who is commenting in the media.
05:07Because I suppose your question is directed to the various debates which are going on
05:12in the media today.
05:14So, to sum up, what I like to say is that ethos and the will to fight, the will to safeguard
05:23our country at all costs will remain.
05:27However, there will be incremental changes, incremental improvements here and there, which
05:34must be attempted in order to meet the modern day requirements.
05:38But in so doing, people must support and it should not be politicized.
05:43Thank you.
05:44Right.
05:45Absolutely.
05:46Definitely.
05:47We respect your opinion and your inputs there, Sir Lieutenant General Himalaya.
05:51And you're right.
05:52I mean, a lot has changed, definitely.
05:54But one thing that is unchanged is the grit, the valour and the commitment to serve the
06:00country.
06:01Major General, Dr. Asthana, talking about the days in 1999, I mean, you were there,
06:07just like Lieutenant General Himalaya also mentioned.
06:11Paint us a picture.
06:13What was it like at that time when the Indian Army had found that such kind of intrusion
06:19is happening and what unfolded for the next three months was something that, well, at
06:24least gave a tough time, tough time to the Pakistan intruders.
06:29Firstly, my salute to all the soldiers who had fallen in duty during the Kargil War and
06:37thereafter.
06:38My salute to their families too, who have braved all the odds and held the pride of
06:47the country thereafter.
06:50My salute to the entire public of India, entire citizens of India for supporting us during
06:58that war and thereafter in a manner that it emboldened all of us, that the whole country
07:07is sitting behind us.
07:09Kargil War was the first war where the whole country could see it on their televisions.
07:16There had been wars earlier but that time perhaps the televisions were not so easily
07:20available and therefore the kind of media coverage which was there and the country,
07:27the way every single soldier who sacrificed his life, the way he and his family was respected
07:36was something which perhaps joined the entire country together and today also we find that
07:43the spirit continues and that spirit is there whenever the country faces such kind of challenges.
07:50Now coming on to this war, let me put it this way, that this was a peculiar war wherein
08:00the intruders had come and those intruders were purely Pakistani army.
08:07Not the shall I say the terrorists or the fighters or something like that which is being
08:16made out by Pakistan.
08:18The fact that they lost so many army soldiers indicates and vindicates what we are saying.
08:28The most important thing was that in this war, the war was restricted to a particular region.
08:37This is a classical case of a limited war where the war was not extended beyond that
08:42region and did not get blown into the full scale war.
08:48Therefore, the nation was saved from the cost of full scale war and also the international
08:54ramifications of a full scale war.
08:56Of course, this was tough to our troops in a manner that we were to attack uphill and
09:02therefore the intruders who were sitting on top of the hills had a positional advantage
09:10but our brave soldiers and young officers and men ensured that with their grit and their
09:17valor they overturned that advantage and got back and pushed them out the way it happened
09:25in those three months.
09:27So, all in all I would say that yes there were various other options too.
09:34Strategically speaking, a quid pro quo could have also been possible but then the fact
09:40is that considering that both sides were nuclear, considering the other international
09:45ramifications, I think Indian army did it professionally well in a manner that it restricted
09:52the war to a particular region and professionally we could push out every single intruder from
10:00the Indian territory and without too much of cost to the country.
10:08Absolutely, well said there Major General because that was something the Kargil war
10:15obviously reminds us of not just of grit and valor definitely but also professional integrity
10:22and the discipline demonstrated by the Indian armed forces on the whole not just in flushing
10:29out the terrorists but also safeguarding our borders.
10:32Stay with us sir.
10:33Major Mohammad Ali Shah, well needless to say all our tributes and hearts go out for
10:39our defence forces and especially on this auspicious occasion I would say rather the
10:45victory day of Kargil war.
10:48How do you remember it first of all, secondly what are your views for the heroes that we
10:55saw beat PVC Captain Manoj Kumar Pandey, PVC Captain Vikram Batra and lots of them
11:03who contributed, who laid down their lives and got us this victory.
11:08Okay Pankaj that's a very very good question you know firstly it's an honour to be on this
11:14panel with the two lustrous general officers over here and I like to wish the entire nation
11:21happy Kargil Vijay Diwas when we are celebrating 25 years of the Kargil war victory.
11:28Now the very fact is when the 99 Kargil war happened I was in college at that time, I was in the NCC
11:35and I remember very clearly our under officers standing before us and telling us what the story of
11:42valor our brave young officers did.
11:46In fact the world knows, everyone knows about the valor of Captain Vikram Batra, Parabri Chakra,
11:51Captain Manoj Kumar Pandey, yes and you know one thing I have always in all my talks,
11:57today I am in Chandigarh to speak over here at an event and I would be telling the story of
12:05Captain Kang Rooze because incidentally those officers they know my love and passion for the
12:12Northeast part of India, how it is, it's very very strong. So Captain Kang Rooze came from Nagaland
12:18and if you just permit me for, I'll just narrate this in like in quick two minutes.
12:25Sure. You know Captain Kang Rooze, it was over 16,000 feet above mean sea level and post midnight
12:31Captain Kang Rooze got orders that the post of the enemy which they were to go and they were to
12:37destroy that post because that post of the enemy which they had illegally captured was creating havoc
12:42for our soldiers where the highway was crossing. So Captain Kang Rooze got ready at night,
12:48took his platoon, started climbing the hill at night. Now post midnight, what happened at night?
12:54Obviously the sound travels faster. Now the enemy got wind of the fact that some movement was
13:00happening below the hill, so enemy got alert and they waited for our soldiers, our brave
13:05soldiers to come and there is something known as a killing range, something known as an effective range of a weapon.
13:10So a killing range would be where the bullet can come and hit you and it can kill you and effective range is
13:16okay it can come, for example it can travel about 750 meters, it will come and hit you and it will fall off, right?
13:23Alright. So the enemies waited for our brave soldiers to come as when Captain Kang Rooze was leaving from the front,
13:29his platoon, his boots were slipping in the snow. He removed his boots,
13:34he removed his boots and barefooted he started climbing. That's when the enemy opened fire indiscriminately
13:40in all directions from where our brave hearts were climbing. There was no scope of survival.
13:47Everywhere there were bullets being sprayed around. Captain Kang Rooze got wounded and he turned around,
13:53he told his men, I have been wounded but don't bother about me. Continue climbing.
13:57They kept motivating troops. They climbed up until Captain Kang Rooze was the first one from the platoon,
14:03climbed up and he came face to face with the enemy soldiers. Captain Kang Rooze was carrying a very heavy weapon,
14:09a motor around his neck and he moved the motor and he tore his commando knife.
14:16First thing he did was he slipped the enemy soldier there and he climbed towards the bunker, took aim and he fired again
14:24and Captain Kang Rooze achieved his aim. But now when the brave hearts were climbing from behind,
14:30the enemy soldiers are running because they were scared of our soldiers. They fired from behind like this
14:37and when they ran away, a burst of enemy fire came and hit Captain Kang Rooze right on his chest.
14:44A burst fire. He fell from the cliff and when he fell from the cliff, the brave hearts went down to find Captain Kang Rooze
14:52lying there in a pool of blood. They were carrying the national flag with them in their pithu jhol and their skele in the rucksack.
15:00They wrapped the body of the brave commander who was only 24 years old and they climbed up.
15:05And when they climbed up, they planted the national flag over there on the peak.
15:09They put the body of the brave platoon commander. They saluted the national flag.
15:13They saluted their brave platoon commander and they said, Captain Kang Rooze is immortal.
15:18And they all cried. They wept like little babies. They cried not because they were on a battle or a war or a cliff.
15:26They cried because they had lost their brave platoon commander who was not there with them anymore.
15:32And they said in unison, Yeh jeet aapki hai Nimmo sahib. Yeh hill aapka hai. Aaj se yeh hill Nimmo Hill ke laayega.
15:41And that is the story of Nimmo Hill. If ever any of you go to Kargil to see where the Indians are,
15:46if you spot Bravely For Your Tomorrow, you will find a very important picture over there known as Nimmo Hill.
15:50That is the story of Nimmo Hill. But the story doesn't end over here.
15:53When Captain Kang Rooze was being brought back from Kargil to Nagaland.
16:01The whole Nagaland united. There are different tribes in Nagaland, right?
16:05Deha, Angami, Chao, Aao, Chakatan, Semmar, Lothar, Rainia.
16:09There are different, different tribes. They all joined hands together.
16:12And when his body was taken up in the ambulance, they all said, Captain Kang Rooze aamar rahe.
16:17And where he was buried, over there, already in Coimbatore, that documentary is written over there.
16:22When you go home, tell them about us and say, for your tomorrow, we gave our today.
16:27Here also, here Captain Kang Rooze, our brave heart is buried.
16:31And our youngsters fought very, very bravely, Pankaj.
16:35And lastly, I would like to conclude quickly by telling you about one letter which Captain Vijayan Thapar,
16:40who wrote to his family before he went for final assault.
16:43He wrote, my loving Papa, Mummy, Granny and Bertie.
16:46By the time this letter reaches you all, I will be observing you all from the skies,
16:50enjoying the hospitality of Apsaras.
16:53I have no regrets. In fact, if I were to be born again as a human,
16:57I would choose to join the army and serve my nation.
17:00Whichever organ needs to be taken, should be taken and donated.
17:03Continue giving Rupees 50 to Utsana and continue giving Rupees 50 to the orphanage.
17:08If ever you get a chance, please come and see what the Indian Army fought for your tomorrow.
17:12Papa, you were the proud. Mama, so was you.
17:15And you know, what emotions he had in the letter. I haven't completed that.
17:20But yes, yes, Pankaj. So, a big salute to all our brave hearts, Pankaj.
17:25Absolutely. No, no, no. Major Shah, thank you so much.
17:28I mean, goosebumps is something that, you know, you are bound to get.
17:34But the way you narrated the story of Nemo Hill, this morning I was watching the broadcast
17:39where Prime Minister Modi was there paying tributes and they were playing out the representation.
17:45And Nemo Hill was there and I stay, learned, you know, I stay educated here.
17:51When you told me this valiant story, the way it was fought, needless to say.
17:55Lieutenant General Dr. Konsam Himalaya, the kind of sacrifices that our soldiers made,
18:01the kind of effort that Indian Armed Forces made is unparalleled.
18:07And given the history of the war, 1999, last battle that India has fought against Pakistan,
18:17there have been more in the past as well.
18:20Prime Minister Modi today said that Pakistan hasn't learned from the past.
18:24Is this concerning for India? Or is this concerning for Pakistan?
18:29Yeah, this is a very important question.
18:39In my view, the statement of the Prime Minister is extremely important.
18:49And if you look back at the history of Indo-Pakistan relationship,
18:57it has not been a very pleasant one for a very long time.
19:04So coming this from the Prime Minister should be taken very seriously.
19:10I'll tell you why. The proxy war, in my view, things in Pakistan are controlled by the army.
19:22As they say, you know, in Pakistan, the Pakistan army has a country, you know, that kind of thing is there.
19:31And the Pakistan army, their commitment to events, the defeat of 1971, as well as their own existence,
19:42as well as their own existence and their relevance in Pakistan society.
19:49I think this proxy war will continue. And you have seen it for yourself,
19:53what is happening in South of Punjab even today.
19:57And I would even say to the extent that even besides Jammu and Kashmir,
20:05other important national security concerns of India, including some in the western borders,
20:14some in the eastern borders, it is a very concerning situation today.
20:21But to what extent each of us, either Pakistan or India, can actually,
20:29how do we actually regulate the conflict escalation or any kind of proactive or,
20:39you know, some kind of action that is likely to be met with significant kind of response as well.
20:50So I'm sure that national security establishment in our country, they're working and they must be planning
20:58as to what would imply from our Prime Minister's statement today.
21:06Absolutely, absolutely. Quite an in-depth, you know, loaded statement, I would say there.
21:11And it comes at a time, gentlemen, when many would say that India faces a two-pronged challenge.
21:19One is Pakistan, the other one being China.
21:23Major General Asthana, looking at the positioning of India as of now,
21:28and given the fact that India's experiences and India's, if I may use the word,
21:36tryst with war has been more than what China has engaged in.
21:41But we face them as also a challenge, as an adversary, not just in the northern front,
21:47but in the eastern front as well. How do you assess the Chinese presence as of now,
21:54as far as Indian borders are concerned? And secondly, how the morale,
22:00as far as the morale of the Indian forces are concerned, needless to say, they are high,
22:04always, Joshi is always high. But in the wake of this remembrance of 25 years of Kargil,
22:11how should we be looking at this Chinese challenge?
22:16See, this 25 years of Kargil war and beyond has taught us a lot of things.
22:24To be able to look at Chinese in a much stronger manner, the way we were looking earlier.
22:31You would have seen the kind of infrastructure development which took place,
22:37the kind of mobilization, much longer mobilization during Kargil war,
22:42as compared to the time which we took for mobilization against Chinese when the standoff started.
22:51Surely, a lot of lessons were learnt, a lot of drills were taped up, and we were much better prepared.
22:59You would have remembered, people who analyzed Kargil war, you would have also remembered that
23:04there was problem of special clothing and winter clothing at some point of time,
23:08and we had to do distress purchases. But when it came to Ladakh,
23:14we were reasonably well off in a manner that we could perhaps move 50,000 troops
23:21and do a mirror deployment, and we were not short of clothing.
23:25So, these are some of the things which happened.
23:29Other important thing is, as far as the junior officers and soldiers are concerned,
23:34let me say in no uncertain terms, they fought very well in 1962,
23:38they fought very well in all the wars from then till now.
23:42The only differences when I analyze all the wars put together,
23:47I find is that see, in 1962, the political hierarchy and military hierarchy were not on the same page,
23:54not very well prepared, and they fought.
23:57In 1971, the military hierarchy stood up to its ground, asked for six months,
24:03old political hierarchy that you prepare international opinion,
24:06while I prepare militarily, and then we launched, and we won the war.
24:11And we won the war, hands down.
24:14Similarly, perhaps this understanding needs to increase.
24:21Now, as we are going along, a lot is being done in terms of the infrastructure development,
24:27because we find that one of the areas where we lack in comparison to Chinese is the level of infrastructure development,
24:34which Chinese have on their side as compared to what we have on our side.
24:39So, I think there is a fair amount of effort which is being put.
24:42Today also, Prime Minister inaugurated one of the tunnels,
24:46which is going to cut short the timing for the troop movement as well as timing for the supply chain.
24:52So, therefore, and also push the local economy as well, because that is also very important.
24:59If you have more, shall I say, better economy, more people on that side, on the borders,
25:08and more infrastructure on the borders, even tourism infrastructure,
25:12that also helps the army because you have more resilience capability in terms of supplies,
25:16and all the essentialities which are required by the army.
25:19So, all in all, I think there is a lot being done in terms of intelligence surveillance.
25:26In Kargil war, we learned that perhaps we needed much more intelligence and surveillance.
25:32Perhaps we should have tracked when Pakistanis were doing so much of purchases of the winter clothing,
25:39we should have performed to that.
25:41So, therefore, a lot of intelligence equipment and intelligence reach has also increased now.
25:48We are looking at drones, we are looking at satellite imageries, we are looking at so many other things,
25:53because that time perhaps it's only the patrols and perhaps the locals who informed us,
25:58but then I think today the surveillance grid is much stronger.
26:02So, these are some of the things where perhaps we feel that we are emerging quite strong now,
26:08and certainly the Indian army is there to take on all the challenges including Chinese, including the twin challenges.
26:15Absolutely, absolutely, Major General.
26:18And you are absolutely right when with the changing times, with the changing modern warfare,
26:25the strategy, the equipment, the preparedness also needs a boost,
26:31which this Indian government is definitely very serious about and is providing whatever is required there.
26:38Gentlemen, I know all of you are much sought after today for all the debates and discussions that are happening.
26:44I'll take a final question from Major Mohammad Ali Shah.
26:47Major Shah, we remember Pulwama and we remember what happened after that.
26:54The quick response, the swift response from India actually shut the doors on Pakistan,
27:00not only from within, but also internationally too.
27:03And the response was well received.
27:06The way Pakistan had to run helter-skelter is something that the whole world saw.
27:13This particular style or stand that India won't tolerate any sort of infiltration or nonsense now
27:22is a message that is loud and clear to the whole world.
27:26How important it is as of now to maintain this first of all and secondly,
27:31to give the enemies, as Major General Asthana mentioned, that had we cracked at that very time
27:38when winter clothing were being bought by the Pakistani forces, this time round,
27:43India, Indian Army, the government itself, quite proactive, how important is it in your opinion?
27:50Okay, Pankaj, you know, I'll take you back to 1999 when Brig MPS Bajwa,
27:59he was commanding a brigade in that area, Kargil area.
28:05One Major Sher from Pakistan Army, he thought he fought bravely, he was skilled in action,
28:14he wrote a citation for him, put it in the body's pocket and when the body was to be sent back to Pakistan,
28:21firstly Pakistan refused to acknowledge the dead bodies of the soldiers.
28:24That also happened, absolutely.
28:26We don't want anything, shameful, ridiculous absolutely.
28:30Anyhow, we gave Pakistani soldiers a very honourable burial.
28:36Anyhow, when Major Shridhar, Major Sher Khan's body was brought back to Pakistan,
28:42he was awarded with Nishan-e-Haidar, that's equivalent to our Paramir Chakra of India, right?
28:49One of the brave hearts of ours, Lieutenant Saurabh Kalia,
28:53when he was taken as prisoner of war to Pakistan, they mutilated his body.
29:01We got Pakistan Army, a Pakistani soldier, a guarantee award, the highest guarantee award.
29:07What did they do to our soldier?
29:10No professional army does that and no professional army enters someone's territory in civil dress.
29:17Chori chhupe, I mean, no one does that.
29:20We cannot even think of such a thing.
29:23That is the level of competency, I would say, in Pakistan Army.
29:27I don't mean to, being a soldier, I don't mean to bang out any other military.
29:31We respect all the military of the world but when a military does such a ridiculous,
29:36un-officer, unethical practices, I think we got to speak up about it.
29:42We are seeing attacks now from Kashmir.
29:46They have moved their target towards Jammu region, right?
29:49They are seeing and Rajouri is around that area.
29:54Now, I made an observation over there, Pankaj.
29:56You know, I said, most of these attacks have the similar kind of a pattern.
30:01And to fire a sniper, it's not like a Hollywood movie.
30:04You can't have snipers rolling around and you fire a sniper.
30:07There is a spotter who catches the targets, one who fires.
30:12You need extensive training to handle a sniper.
30:15It's not a piece of cake for these militants.
30:17I definitely, what I suspect, a very strong Pakistan hand in this.
30:23Very, very strong.
30:24Because, as they say, history repeats itself.
30:27They have done that in 99.
30:29They could be doing it even now.
30:31It could be their own soldiers.
30:34And if you ask me personally, I don't consider their army to be any army or any soldiers.
30:39I don't consider them less than the Ugrwadis.
30:42Yes, yes, absolutely.
30:44Major Shah, one more thing, because you mentioned the way the terrorist activities have shifted from the Kashmir region to the Jammu region.
30:53And you are absolutely right.
30:54This whole month started on a very sad note and a very concerning note.
30:59The latest reports also say that the make of the arms that these terrorists are carrying are either Chinese and American as well, US-made as well.
31:10Now, this takes, it's a no-brainer to understand how deeply entrenched is ISI with these terrorists.
31:17How best can this part be countered at an international level, maybe, in order to maybe get some sanctions against Pakistan?
31:25See, it's a known fact, it's nothing, it's a very known fact for the whole world that Pakistan is an expert in I.T.
31:32I.T., I feel like, not information technology, but international terrorism.
31:37Global terrorism, they rise to that.
31:40Well said, well said.
31:41Now, the fact is, if they have had Chinese weapons or American weapons, America had left behind a lot of weapons in Afghanistan when they had left.
31:49Which Taliban got hand of, given Taliban hands.
31:54And Pakistan and Taliban were friends at one time.
31:57When General Sayers Hamid went to Pakistan and to vote for the Haqqai Network, to give them seats in the parliament and such things.
32:04Because now, China always tries to make trouble.
32:09For India especially.
32:11China will always do that.
32:12Now, international community, when we talk about the international community, it's about time that the entire international community call out a spade a spade.
32:20They say that, okay, Pakistan is getting into global terrorism, we have to nip it in the bud, we have to call it now.
32:27Because if those countries were silent, if they will not speak about it, tomorrow those countries are going to bear the brunt of it.
32:35Right.
32:36So, it's about time.
32:37Right.
32:38High time.
32:39We speak about this.
32:40Absolutely.
32:41Very quickly, Lt. Gen. Dr. Ghonsam, since this aspect of terrorism has come to the fore, into the discussion also.
32:48Well, 25 years down the line, what Pakistan was doing at that time, Prime Minister Modi says, Pakistan hasn't learnt from history.
32:55And now we see they are added once again.
32:57In your opinion, sir, how best this aspect should be dealt with, not just militarily, maybe diplomatically, maybe through some international pressure, as Major Shah mentioned?
33:09I agree with what Major Shah has mentioned about it.
33:15Not only, military is one of the components of comprehensive national power.
33:22Military is one of the very important power.
33:26So, military action or military concentration should not be kept in the background.
33:36It should go along with diplomacy and other economic, you know, and geopolitics obtaining in the international environment today.
33:50So, it is a combined effect of all these activities, right, from diplomacy to military.
33:59It's a huge kind of a range that the country has to exploit.
34:03So, we have to consider all this, particularly in the international community of nations.
34:10We need to be a little more proactive towards exposing, as it is, Pakistan has been exposed to a large extent.
34:18But the fact is that today we have a very, very unstable neighborhood today.
34:24So, we have to be prepared.
34:26We cannot rely on other nations actually to support you when the need arises.
34:32So, we have to be strong first.
34:35We have to be strong so that if you are strong, there will be many more friends who will come and help you.
34:43If you are weak, nobody is going to help you.
34:45That's the nature.
34:48Yeah, that's the nature of things in the world.
34:52So, therefore, we have to be concurrently talking about national power and national power includes a whole lot of things,
35:04which two important components are the economy and military, besides many others.
35:11So, the entire thing has to be, we have to go to the drawing board, as I say it once again, back to the drawing board and see how we can do this.
35:21You know, to actually checkmate and to neutralize the designs of the inimical countries like Pakistan.
35:28Absolutely, absolutely.
35:30Major General Asthana, just hopping on the same thread, Article 370 abrogation meant a lot and means a lot for Jammu and Kashmir.
35:42But we have realized that for safeguarding the borders for this internal terrorism aspect that Pakistan keeps funneling towards Indian side, a strong stand is needed.
35:58In your opinion, sir, once again, I would like to know, in your words, how best India can tackle this situation.
36:06Whereas, we did see fruits, you know, of the abrogation of Article 370.
36:13But as far as the terrorism part is concerned, once again, it's raising its head in the parts of Jammu and Kashmir once again.
36:21See, with the abrogation of Article 370, the political parties and the political patronage which the terrorists were getting in Kashmir,
36:30that reduced and you will find that there was a significant difference in Kashmir as far as terrorism is concerned.
36:37Stone pelting came down and things like that.
36:39Also, in addition, our troop density and the intelligence and surveillance grid was very strong in Kashmir.
36:47What happened was that when we went off for the standoff, at that point of time, because of these operational considerations,
36:55we had to move certain troops from Jammu region towards Ladakh.
37:00So, Pakistan perhaps has thought that perhaps they could take a chance in Jammu region because of the troop density which was not as much as it used to be earlier.
37:11Similarly, the intelligence and surveillance grid in Jammu region was not as strong as it was in Kashmir for very simple reason.
37:19Because the population in Jammu was not favourable to the terrorists.
37:25So, therefore, there was perhaps an element where we could do with the lesser surveillance grid and employ those resources elsewhere.
37:39But now what has happened is, now that the Pakistanis have thought of taking a chance in this side and also taking a chance of infiltration through the IB sector,
37:47there is a need to redeploy forces accordingly.
37:52So, therefore, the troop density is being increased.
37:55As we get to know from the media that a brigade is being moved, so that is addition of the troop density.
38:01We also find some special forces moving in.
38:04We also find the intelligence and surveillance grid being increased.
38:07We also find certain technological innovations moving in, whether it is in terms of drones and helicopters and things like that.
38:14Now, all this will have to be done.
38:16And earlier, long back, we had a very large combing operation in the area of Jammu region.
38:24Maybe something like that may be required.
38:28And I am sure the officers who are responsible for it and the government responsible would be perhaps looking into it.
38:36The entire hierarchical structure will be looking into it very soon.
38:40As far as the options towards Pakistan are concerned, you see there are overt options, there are covert options.
38:46We don't talk of both the options as far as Pakistan is concerned on television.
38:51But as far as the diplomatic and all other options are concerned, certainly these issues need to be flagged.
38:57But one thing I must highlight, the problem is that Pakistan is a strategic location deeply desired by China to counterbalance or to checkmate India in some manner or the other.
39:08Also, this is a strategic location, which is also very important for the United States.
39:15So, irrespective of their good relations with us, they will continue to help them in some manner.
39:20Because if they have to launch operations against Al-Qaeda or ISKP or ISIS in Afghanistan, there is only one logistic route which flows through Pakistan.
39:31So, therefore, they will not knock off their relations with Pakistan ever.
39:35And that is why China being a P5 member, it will be very difficult for us to put a diplomatic pressure in United Nations against Pakistan.
39:45Because China will bail them out and make sure that no resolution is passed against them as has happened in past.
39:51So, that being said, but that doesn't certainly discount the efforts which we need to make.
40:00Economically, I think if you take a span of about 50 odd years, I think we have veered them down.
40:05We didn't do trade with them.
40:07They have to buy all the things from India at double the price from where to go in.
40:11And economically, Pakistan did get a very big jolt as we can see.
40:17So, this strategy of veering them down economically in long term, that is working and that perhaps will continue to be so.
40:25So, these are some of the things which I thought I must highlight.
40:29Absolutely well respected and well received this side Major General Asthana.
40:33Because obviously the professionalism conduct that the Indian Army has demonstrated.
40:39And also the upgrades and the changing technology and times which obviously the Indian forces are keeping pace with.
40:48Will definitely give the enemies the hard time there.
40:52Thank you so much gentlemen.
40:53I know Major Shah is in Chandigarh, the combined capital of Punjab and Haryana.
40:58And Major Shah, you would be surrounded with lots of veterans I am sure.
41:02Because those two states produce maximum number of army members also.
41:09A lot of people go there.
41:11What special message are you carrying for Chandigarh today if I may ask you before we close the show?
41:16Right, I would say firstly a quote which is there in almost all the war memorials in the army.
41:23Which is, how can a man die better than facing fearful odds?
41:28For the ashes of his father than the temple of his gods.
41:31And lastly the last message which I read at the Coimbatore World War Cemetery.
41:37And I was posted there with the exam rifle which I read.
41:40When you go home, tell them a fast.
41:43And say for your tomorrow, we gave our today.
41:48Jai Hind.
41:51Jai Hind, Jai Hind gentlemen.
41:53Thank you so much for taking time out.
41:55As I said earlier also, not just myself but the viewers and our countrymen.
42:00Stay informed, stay informed, awake and aware of the effort that is being put in.
42:08Thanks to all of you for bringing the realities of the ground since you have served in the army, the defence forces.
42:14And thanks for sharing your views on this very special day of 25 years of Kargil Vijayadivas.
42:19We hope to host you more on the show and we are wishing you a very good day in advance.
42:26Thank you so much for joining One India.
42:28Thank you, thank you. Pleasure talking to you.
42:30Thank you.