Is there any alternative to get out of energy crisis?
Is there any alternative to get out of energy crisis?
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00:00If we look around, we can see a lot of changes.
00:05There used to be a woodshed here and there.
00:10Sometimes we used to see that if we wanted to have a barbecue, we would get coal from there.
00:14It was used in some areas.
00:16But now we see woodshed everywhere.
00:18And even in the industrial area, its usage has increased a lot, Sadaf.
00:21Yes, you said that its usage has increased in factories.
00:25We are told that we should plant more trees for the environment.
00:32But what are we doing with the trees that are already there?
00:35Why is all this happening? This is very important.
00:38And we see that gas is also being loaded here.
00:41What is all this?
00:43Why is the industry going to wood?
00:45This is what we will talk about.
00:47We have with us Mr. Muhammad Javed Balwani,
00:50Chief Coordinator, Karachi Industrial Forum.
00:52He has also been the former president of the site association.
00:56Thank you so much for joining us.
00:58Mr. Javed, please tell us that this is a big concern.
01:01Gas is being loaded here.
01:03As an alternative source of income,
01:05do you also think that wood should be used?
01:09Is that the option available?
01:11In the name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.
01:13Peace be upon you, Mr. Sadaf and Mr. Ashraf.
01:15Peace be upon you.
01:16Let me tell you one thing.
01:18It is the government's job to supply gas.
01:22The government has a planning commission.
01:26The planning commission is chaired by the Prime Minister of Pakistan.
01:31The planning commission plans the whole country.
01:35When they did the gas load shedding,
01:38no one has been informed in advance
01:40to prepare the gas.
01:44Neither the industry, nor the domestic, nor the commercial.
01:49If they had told us in advance,
01:51then there are bio-mass boilers available in the world.
01:57What do the bio-mass agriculturists do?
02:01When their crops are cut,
02:03like the mustard is cut,
02:05the leaves of the mustard plant are burnt.
02:10So we use the bio-mass in the boiler
02:14to make steam
02:16or to make electricity.
02:18There are turbines.
02:21We use electricity in the boiler.
02:24This is done in many countries around the world.
02:28In our country, this has been done.
02:30On which the industries have held seminars
02:34and explained to their industrialists
02:37that the gas shortage has occurred
02:39and you are going to wood.
02:41We will tell you fuel that is cheaper than wood,
02:44which is bio-mass.
02:46There is a lot of fuel in bio-mass.
02:49Like cow dung.
02:51In our colony, in Landi,
02:53all the cow dung is thrown into the sea.
02:56For the last 30-40 years,
02:58the Karachi industries,
03:00the Chamber of Commerce,
03:02have been trying to throw it into the sea.
03:04What is the condition of the sea?
03:06This cow dung can also be used as bio-mass
03:10in the boiler and in the steam turbine.
03:16In this way, the chicken manure is also wasted.
03:21You can also use it as bio-mass.
03:25The agriculturists who used to burn bio-mass,
03:29they used to set it on fire
03:31and the smoke used to go towards the sky
03:34which caused pollution and fog.
03:37In India, Delhi, and Punjab.
03:41When the industry started using bio-mass,
03:44we put a scrubber inside it.
03:47The purpose of which is to wash the smoke
03:50that comes out of it with water.
03:53If you look at the hookah,
03:55what happens inside the hookah?
03:57We keep tobacco inside the hookah.
03:59Smoke goes out of the water.
04:01That is why people say that
04:03the hookah of the ancient world
04:05gives as much smoke as tobacco.
04:08The industry that we are exhausting,
04:11more than 60% of the industry uses bio-mass.
04:15The fuel of bio-mass is cheaper than gas.
04:20It is also cheaper than wood.
04:22The wastage of our country has started.
04:26If the Ministry of Planning and Commission
04:29had already told the industries
04:32about this situation 4-5 years ago,
04:35or if they had told it domestically,
04:38they would have used solar panels in Afghanistan.
04:41This is not happening in Pakistan.
04:43If they had told this,
04:45people would have started making solar panels.
04:47Mr. Javed, tell me one thing.
04:49This number is obviously a problem for us.
04:52More than half of your population
04:55is using wood for cooking.
04:58Is this cheaper
05:00as compared to the gas bills?
05:03Why is the gas bill low?
05:05Why is the gas bill low?
05:07Half of the population is not using gas.
05:10Please shed some light on this.
05:12In the 1950s,
05:16biogas plants were installed in our country.
05:20The government installed them
05:22in almost all villages.
05:24But a government from Pakistan came
05:27and said,
05:29we will supply you with natural gas.
05:32And they started giving you gas at such a low price
05:36that people left their homes on fire
05:39to save a matchstick.
05:41Because the gas was so cheap
05:44that people did so much injustice to it.
05:47It was the fault of the government
05:49and the planning commission.
05:51But domestic gas is never supplied.
05:54In the whole world,
05:56the country with the highest gas availability
05:59has the lowest domestic gas supply.
06:02When we were young,
06:04we had LPG supply in Pakistan.
06:07We had a Persian company
06:09that delivered gas to homes.
06:11You are seeing multiple things here.
06:13Your environment is being affected by this.
06:16We are talking about wood.
06:18Trees are already being cut in the country.
06:21This is affecting your environment
06:23and your health.
06:25This is affecting your life in every way.
06:28You are absolutely right.
06:30You can ask your question.
06:32My question is,
06:34why are these alternative ways
06:36being used?
06:38The world is moving forward.
06:40We are going back in time.
06:42You said that the planning commission
06:44has many other options,
06:46but they didn't work on them.
06:48But what can be done on our own?
06:50This is what I wanted to say.
06:52The purpose of my statement
06:54is to tell the planning commission
06:56that in Pakistan,
06:5890% of the work is done
07:00by the public.
07:02The government doesn't do it.
07:04Why would the government do it?
07:06For example, there is low-end order.
07:08People have installed grids, cameras,
07:10security guards.
07:12They have done all the work they could.
07:14The government is doing the work
07:16that the public is doing.
07:18I will tell you one thing.
07:20In our country,
07:22biomass and biogas
07:24started in the 1950s.
07:26If it had continued,
07:28our country wouldn't be in this state.
07:30If LPG was there,
07:32our country wouldn't be in this state.
07:34What is the solution to this?
07:36That is the question.
07:38We industrialists think
07:40that all the industrialists
07:42should go to biomass.
07:44There should be solar panels
07:46in the domestic market.
07:48There should be lithium batteries
07:50in the domestic market.
07:54What would be the second loss?
07:56The second loss would be
07:58that our two gas companies
08:00would fail.
08:04The biggest paymaster here
08:06is the industrialists.
08:08All the industrialists
08:10will go to biomass.
08:12You have mentioned a lot of issues here.
08:14Their solution is important.
08:16Thank you so much, Mr. Javed Bulwani.
08:18You gave us good suggestions.
08:20Hopefully, the government
08:22will do a lot of work on this.
08:24The world is moving forward.
08:26In the past,
08:28people were trading in gas.
08:30There is a lot of electricity
08:32but there are problems
08:34with distribution and transmission.
08:36Let's talk more about this.
08:38Secretary of Environment Protection
08:40and Climate Change,
08:42Raja Jahangir Anwar is with us.
08:44Thank you so much
08:46for joining us.
09:14Mr. Ashfaq, thank you
09:16for this important topic.
09:18You are right.
09:20Pakistan's
09:22forest cover is
09:244.8%.
09:26Unfortunately,
09:28the total area
09:30is 4.2 million hectares.
09:3240% of that
09:34is in the northern areas
09:36and hills.
09:38Our
09:40Indus plain
09:42is a river forest.
09:46The rest is
09:48mangrove forest
09:50in Karachi.
09:52The way
09:54we are deforestationing
09:56in this country,
09:58the biggest cause is
10:00population growth.
10:022.6% of the population
10:04is growing in this country.
10:06This population
10:08can eat anything
10:10that you are producing
10:12or conserving.
10:14How is that in comparison with other countries?
10:16Let's talk about this area.
10:18Sorry?
10:20Let's talk about this area
10:22in comparison with population growth.
10:24This is about
10:26natural resources deficiency.
10:28The way we have used
10:30our natural resources
10:32in comparison with population
10:34growth and consumption
10:36pattern.
10:38Our colleague
10:40was right.
10:42Now,
10:44climate change
10:46has started.
10:48Climate change has changed the world.
10:50Our priorities are changing
10:52but damage has already happened.
10:54Coming back to
10:56wood use,
10:58more than 50% of people
11:00use wood as fuel.
11:02Which wood is used more?
11:04Yes.
11:06Actually,
11:08wood should not be used
11:10as it emits
11:12more carbon.
11:14It emits carbon
11:16and is dangerous for humans.
11:18People are forced to use
11:20low quality coal.
11:22Yes.
11:243.
11:26To use wood
11:28as fuel,
11:30in northern areas,
11:32wood was used
11:34as fuel.
11:36Now, wood is stolen.
11:38Data shows that
11:40in last few years,
11:421.2% of wood
11:44has been stolen.
11:46People have used
11:48forest as fuel
11:50along with government land
11:52and roads.
11:54What is dangerous
11:56is that
11:58natural resources
12:00and alternative energy
12:02resources
12:04like solar and
12:06energy efficient stoves
12:08should be used
12:10to reduce
12:12the use of
12:14wood and
12:16forest cover.
12:18Mr. Jahangir,
12:20I was about to say
12:22that the previous government
12:24also started a plan
12:26but you should explain
12:28about Karachi.
12:30When you land in Karachi,
12:32you realize that
12:34it is getting
12:36more and more
12:38polluted.
12:40Complexes of buildings
12:42and trees
12:44are being destroyed.
12:46Is there a need
12:48to make a law
12:50to protect them?
12:52We are over-legislated.
12:54Should the government
12:56do something about it?
12:58Anyone can cut down
13:00a tree and
13:02waste 50-60 years of hard work.
13:04The government
13:06has been very strict
13:08but the community
13:10and citizens have
13:12a state-subject relationship.
13:14People also need to take responsibility.
13:16We are waiting for smoke season
13:18in Lahore.
13:20But no one will fix
13:22the smoke of their motorcycles.
13:24We can fine them
13:26and stop them.
13:28But you also have
13:30a responsibility as a citizen.
13:32You said you are a citizen
13:34but the gas load is getting
13:36shaded and it is not available.
13:38What should the citizens do?
13:40What do they have?
13:42I was submitting
13:44that the way
13:46we used our natural gas
13:48and did not make
13:50good policies
13:52and wasted our gas
13:54and the way
13:56our gas was stolen
13:58and we did not pay the bill
14:00and 25 connections were given
14:02and the CNG stations were
14:04filled up.
14:06Do you remember
14:08in the 90s
14:10there was a green energy
14:12station?
14:14I remember
14:16there used to be
14:1825-30 CNG stations
14:20and this is how we wasted it.
14:22You are absolutely right.
14:24Even now
14:26I was talking to someone
14:28and he told me that this year
14:30we have taken Rs. 150 billion
14:32to limit related projects
14:34like solarization projects,
14:36clean energy projects,
14:38solid waste disposal
14:40in scientific ways
14:42and our emission control
14:44systems projects.
14:46They were asking
14:48us to stop the smoke
14:50of motorcycles
14:52so that we can
14:54tune our bikes.
14:56They were asking us
14:58to stop the fire
15:00of garbage.
15:02Fidget dust is an issue
15:04for Lahore
15:06and other big cities.
15:08The smoke emission
15:10that we have
15:12started to reduce
15:14because people are not
15:16using their vehicles.
15:18If we keep
15:20contributing to this
15:22then a lot can be improved.
15:24Thank you so much, Mr. Raju.