Through Olympian Rob Hamill's personal story, Brother Number One explores how and why nearly 2 million Cambodians were killed by a fanatical left-wing regime known as the Khmer Rouge.
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00:00:00You
00:00:30You
00:01:00You
00:01:07On the afternoon of the 13th
00:01:10We thought we could hear a boat engine at intervals throughout the afternoon
00:01:14But we couldn't be sure
00:01:17Suddenly a boat came in closer I
00:01:21Was about to go up on deck when the boat opened fire and sent some shots over our mast
00:01:30I
00:01:36Am deeply honored and moved to be here today given the opportunity to speak I
00:01:42realized that this
00:01:43Is a privilege made available to a few especially compared to the numbers of?
00:01:49Families that suffered under the Khmer Rouge regime. I
00:01:53I
00:01:56Arrived in Cambodia last week
00:01:58last Thursday
00:02:0013th of August was coincidentally
00:02:0331 years to the day
00:02:06That my brother Kerry Hamill
00:02:09first set foot on Cambodian soil
00:02:15This is the story of an innocent man
00:02:18Brought to his knees and killed in the prime of his life
00:02:22And the impact his death had on just one family
00:02:52I
00:03:02Was 14 when Kerry went missing and 16 when we found out the the terrible news
00:03:09I
00:03:19My brother Kerry was sailing this beautiful little
00:03:23Double-ended sloop and with his mate Stuart Stuart glass
00:03:28They had actually picked up a chart a guy named John Dewhurst an Englishman together. They sailed up the coast of
00:03:35Malaysia on their way to Bangkok and we believe they got blown off course by a storm
00:03:40Ended up in Cambodian waters
00:03:43they were attacked by a
00:03:45Khmer Rouge
00:03:46naval gunboat and
00:03:48At that time Stuart was shot and killed and my brother and John Dewhurst were taken prisoner and were later
00:03:56executed
00:03:57brutally
00:04:06You
00:04:13Kerry was the eldest of five children and I was the youngest we grew up in the coastal town of whakatane, New Zealand
00:04:24We were a very loving family and we spent loads of time together outdoors
00:04:28And it was an idyllic childhood really and spent time running around in the hills
00:04:33On the beach surfing or out at sea and as the firstborn I think
00:04:38Kerry was very very special to my parents arguably their favorite child
00:04:53After Kerry's death
00:04:55My savior was my hyperactivity
00:04:58You know, I was permanently physically active and in sport. My passion was growing
00:05:03I was very focused and ended up winning medals on the on the world stage
00:05:07I competed at the Olympic Games and went on to win the first ever rowing race across the Atlantic Ocean
00:05:26When I was mid-atlantic it actually brought out all sorts of
00:05:31Emotions that I hadn't really experienced since Kerry had first gone missing. I
00:05:37Often thought of him out on the briny, you know the old sea salt and
00:05:45But that with the physical exhaustion and combined with this intensely
00:05:52prison like boat
00:05:54And it was like a coffin really
00:05:57You
00:05:58Know all that time
00:06:00grieving at sea became a catalyst really a turning point the beginning of a journey I suppose to honor my brother's memory and to
00:06:09Try and discover the truth. I
00:06:11Then heard that there was going to be a trial
00:06:16Tool slang s21 the most notorious prison of the Khmer Rouge regime
00:06:22It's proving a valuable source of documents for the upcoming war crimes tribunal in Cambodia
00:06:27They include so-called confessions
00:06:30Extracted under torture and the photographs of the estimated 15,000 victims
00:06:37Two million Cambodians died during the regime of starvation
00:06:41overwork and execution
00:06:43The boss of tool slang comrade Doik will be the first to go on trial. He converted to Christianity in
00:06:501995 and was discovered near the Thai border working for World Vision
00:07:04Comrade Doik is the man most responsible for Kerry's death
00:07:09He's going to be the first to go on trial and I've been invited to give what is called a victim statement at the war
00:07:16Crimes tribunal. In fact, I think I'm going to be the only Westerner to testify. I
00:07:24Decided to do it the moment I heard I could do it
00:07:26Absolutely straight into it gotta be done. Having said that I didn't really dawn on me what I was prepared to do really
00:07:34Recalling all the pain that the family went through and this sadness and grief and sense of loss
00:07:41I can't help but extrapolate out from that
00:07:44The Cambodian people, you know, you just cannot get your head around it
00:07:53You know, it's always been there I think you've always wanted to do something like this haven't you certainly to visit Cambodia and
00:07:59Retrace Kerry's footsteps. Maybe this is on a bigger scale than Rob had originally planned to do
00:08:07You know, I kind of is it is it actually
00:08:10Is it actually making a difference?
00:08:14I don't know. Yeah, there's a really well, maybe
00:08:18Maybe it's not gonna make a big difference to the whole world, but it's gonna make a difference to your family. Well, hopefully
00:08:25Certainly and like say not passing it on
00:08:28the trauma down the line because you are talking because you do get emotional because you can say it was wrong and
00:08:35to be able to stand up in court and also say that and
00:08:38And
00:08:40You know, nobody has
00:08:42Nobody's been brought to justice for 30 years. It's just been like oh that happened
00:08:47Let's forget about it move on everybody and how can they move on? They're all feeling like you do
00:08:52Yeah, I think the point is though. Is it gonna make a difference?
00:08:55Yeah, well I get look on a personal basis. I could argue
00:09:01Not
00:09:03Because all it's doing is dragging up all the old crap
00:09:06All those bad memories all that hurt and pain and
00:09:12Go to the court see this guy
00:09:16say
00:09:17You're a
00:09:18This is what I think of you. And this is what I think of your bosses and go home
00:09:23Well, if you take it like that, then it's not gonna happen. I don't know if that's gonna be
00:09:27No, I know just the hypothesis. Oh, yeah, right. She's just
00:09:31I
00:09:34Think it was very wrong what the Camarouge did to all the other people that came to where they were in Cambodia
00:09:40It was very wrong what they did the end PS. I wish I had met my dad's brother Kerry
00:09:46It is very sad that he got killed and I like your photograph on my dad's computer
00:10:00You
00:10:15The more I hear about some of the things that happened the more
00:10:19Understanding of what took place there and I want to forgive but the harder it will be to forgive
00:10:26Yeah, sometimes I feel a real hatred towards them
00:10:31I
00:10:36Have no idea how I feel when I get there. I really want to see what Cambodia is like
00:10:42But I don't know who I'm gonna meet. I guess people who might have suffered like Kerry, but perhaps also those who inflicted so much pain
00:11:00You
00:11:18You know, it's 31 years to the day that my brother landed here to the day
00:11:26And the first thing they did was take my photo
00:11:31The first thing they did to carry, you know took his photo
00:11:39It's not a good
00:12:00I
00:12:20Certainly I wasn't expecting to go to the courthouse in the first sort of 20 minutes, but
00:12:25I was an email contact from Singapore with my lawyer and he called a meeting to discuss my victim statement
00:12:32He also wants me to feel comfortable with the atmosphere inside the courtroom itself
00:12:48So much in agriculture
00:12:54Oh
00:13:03In the Franco-germanic system, there is another
00:13:06Element that is inserted into the trial process. That is the voice of the victim victims can appear in their own, right?
00:13:14These groups are called civil parties and the civil parties are not
00:13:20Restricted to survivors. In other words, it's not only those that have been kept in s-21
00:13:27And survived but those that have lost loved ones
00:13:32Me we took
00:13:36Then when T some of him we are not what Japan because I'm
00:13:41They don't know the height of the suit. I'm like I'm thinking
00:13:45I'd look lengthy
00:13:50Jim represent look at Chrome
00:13:53Beat me come in. Yeah, I'm not even you'll come to me
00:13:59But I buy young you skip a car to move him up here need
00:14:05Do you know sort of band? We're mean knee-jerk. So some way back. I'm think I might come on clean. I
00:14:13I
00:14:15Was surprised that I actually was going into the court and it was very quick and next thing I didn't realize it
00:14:21I walked in and here he is right before my eyes the man who killed my brother doing
00:14:29The judges came in and we all stood and you know what but I
00:14:36Looked across the room and he was looking at me and I held his eye. I held his eye
00:14:43For a long time it must have been at least 10 maybe 15 seconds and we just stared at each other and he finally looked away
00:14:50he looked away and
00:14:52I
00:14:55Don't know is that a some small victory it's pathetic
00:14:59do it was
00:15:02Chinese Cambodian
00:15:04Ethnically, he was a great student. He ranked number two on the national math exam
00:15:12and then studied at the Institute of Pedagogy
00:15:16under Sun Sen who would become Minister of Defense for the Khmer Rouge and
00:15:21It was at that time that he was radicalized and became a member of the Communist Party
00:15:30Do it ends up
00:15:31in charge of a prison
00:15:34Which is where he begins his training as an interrogator and a torturer
00:15:40And then ends up heading tool slang s21 which is the mother of all torture centers in Cambodia
00:15:49As soon as you entered tool slang your fate was sealed
00:15:56You'd be immediately photographed put in a cell tortured and then told to write a series of ever wilder confessions
00:16:04Proving that you were an enemy of the Pol Pot regime
00:16:10Dirk's job was not to find guilt or innocence through a process of confession
00:16:19Confession was just another checkmark that he needed completed as part of a process by which somebody would end up dead
00:16:29It's a very apt symbol of the regime because here is this
00:16:33complex of two good schools
00:16:35you know where children were taught and
00:16:38It was empty like all schools education was over children no longer had childhood
00:16:48He was a teacher and
00:16:51He was turned into a torturer. I
00:16:54Mean, that's again the app symbol that they would put a teacher in charge of torture and execution center
00:17:07You
00:17:19The most hurtful thing I think of all of us apart from the loss is the thought of what they did to my brother
00:17:25It's terrible
00:17:38Oh
00:17:55Yeah, this could be Kerry this could be it looks like he's looks like Western to me that looks like a Western face
00:18:02The
00:18:06Victim here they were the general high ranking of whole part
00:18:11You can see also the bloodstain. Yeah
00:18:14And there are two boxes it used for the toilet of the victim
00:18:19Because the camera will not allow it him to get out from the room
00:18:22There's mathematical precision here from a maths teacher
00:18:36This is all meticulous planning it's not there's nothing random. There's nothing random about this place
00:18:43This picture is this guy is still alive right now is he yeah, this one to sit alone right now
00:18:49Yeah, so that he worked. I worked at this prison. Yeah, the security guard here
00:18:54Yeah, you see this all year and the security guard and killers
00:19:00Yeah, so the security guard
00:19:03I
00:19:06Think that he was a security guard
00:19:08You see this all year and a security guard and killers
00:19:13You would be 15 16 years old young really young really
00:19:18I'm not you know. I'm I'm not connecting this with
00:19:21carry
00:19:23you know
00:19:24It's best not to
00:19:27All right, I'm hoping there's some special treatment given that they didn't need to do any of this
00:19:38You
00:19:46Could be your best mates kid or could be one of my kids, you know
00:20:02And
00:20:04Slowly slowly, you know five minute later, you know the water full and then it drowned the victim
00:20:10Every
00:20:31Morning I always give the flower
00:20:34To the body here. I will kiss in a long time in
00:20:401984 so the wife, you know flower like this is the color of peace. I want them to get peace
00:20:48now
00:21:04I
00:21:34I
00:21:42Here's a photo do it, but I haven't seen before
00:21:50The documentation center of Cambodia or DC cam as it's known is the hub of research for the trials
00:21:57It's only it's more than six hundred thousand documents that are being used in Deutsch trial alone
00:22:04All
00:22:07Roads seem to lead to DC cams director your chain who's been called the conscience of Cambodia
00:22:16Well, look at this place this is a this is an indication of a busy man
00:22:21Wow
00:22:23Thank you. Thank you very much. I
00:22:26Don't want to impose, you know, you feel and I understand the credible privilege it is to be here
00:22:31You know, I'm very fortunate. This is so many millions that
00:22:35But I mean, you know opportunity
00:22:38When you lost a loved one
00:22:40Suffering the same way
00:22:42For our family easy to condo who survived a small group. Yeah to counter who have died. It's just to a long list. Hmm and
00:22:51My mother never count them, but she's a low in this world
00:22:55She lost all her brother and sister
00:22:58Her parents her husband some of her children
00:23:03It's a broken society and
00:23:07You want to make this broken piece
00:23:10But sometimes you cannot find this broken piece
00:23:13disappear
00:23:14wash away by the rains
00:23:18He's pleading for forgiveness
00:23:22That's the struggle because on one hand
00:23:26He was taking orders just like the guards that he was given the orders
00:23:30On the other hand, he was a brutal clinical
00:23:34butcher
00:23:36Dude was born on the year of the horse
00:23:38You know fist his physical allowed me to make fun of him. People call him a big head
00:23:43Oh, yeah, people call him all kind of name and his mother believed that he
00:23:48Distinct to be in jail one in his lifetime
00:23:51Distant to go to jail to go to jail because of that that year that time the lunar color that year
00:23:56Okay, so he'd been prejudiced at home. Hmm in the communities
00:24:03because
00:24:04He involved with the left groups. This is during all this communist book. Yes
00:24:10So everyone who has enemy
00:24:13so in my culture we say that
00:24:16It's mean that he quietly silently timidly, but very dangerous
00:24:23Mm-hmm and one day I kill all of you
00:24:26So if I were to ask one question that you would like me to ask in court, what would that be?
00:24:34That did did you believe in karma
00:24:37Yes, because to challenge Christianity
00:24:41You know, we had to fight for our justice and that's what we had to fight for
00:24:45I want justice and that's how we see it
00:24:47That's how we would fight in the courtroom and you have a perfect chance to fight for it on behalf of many many
00:24:52victim in this country
00:24:56Yes
00:25:01Thank you, you know I from my memory it was you who
00:25:06Informed me about the civil parties. Yes. Yes together with
00:25:11Sarah Thomas, that's right and Sarah as well. That's right. See you. That's right, but look if it wasn't for you, too
00:25:17I would not be going through this process right now because I didn't know about it and I think I had about five days to
00:25:22Get the application and didn't I? That's right. It was really tight. So look, thank you very much for letting me know
00:25:29Testify either tomorrow afternoon or Tuesday morning. Yeah, probably Tuesday morning
00:25:36possibly tomorrow afternoon
00:25:38In writing lots of stuff and so we've got to nail it down now big day tomorrow. All right. Good to see you
00:25:48You're gonna be amazed by the cars and the traffic
00:26:08I
00:26:38Don't know
00:26:59To be fair to do it he is the only one of the five Khmer Rouge leaders charged who's taken some responsibility
00:27:05Responsibility and well not responsibility as such
00:27:09But he's admitting he's committed certain crimes. He's expressing remorse and pleading guilty in a legal sense at least
00:27:35Got time and voice boom. We drop
00:27:47The problem is do it still claiming to be a victim that he was forced to follow the orders of Pol Pot
00:27:54How can you forgive someone who doesn't fully accept responsibility for what he did
00:28:01He's tried continuously, of course the defense strategy to say well this duress
00:28:05I didn't want to do what I did, but I didn't have a choice
00:28:07But of course over the course of four years or whatever there was ample opportunity one would say to make a good getaway
00:28:14To try and flee at least when you're doing something one finds repugnant
00:28:18like causing
00:28:20agony
00:28:21To fellow human beings. He didn't do that. He thrived in the regime. That was the Khmer Rouge in Democratic
00:28:29Campuchia he loved it
00:28:30It gave him a sense of purpose and identity
00:28:36Karim Khan heads the legal team working with me and some of the other civil parties
00:28:41I'm just going to visit his fellow lawyer Alain Werner who's helping me write my victim statement
00:28:47Alain and Karim have been really supportive and have long histories fighting these kinds of legal battles
00:28:53working in countries devastated by genocide and war
00:29:00You need to be in charge, not him
00:29:02You are the one who needs to be in charge in court
00:29:06And now is the time for the civil parties to come and for their grief and suffering to take the central stage
00:29:15I think it's important for you to hear some things and that's a very powerful question here
00:29:21What do you remember of my brother, how long was Karim in prison, and when did you order his killing?
00:29:29How and where did Karim die?
00:29:32Where was Karim buried?
00:29:34Fundamental core question. Sure. Okay. Did you ever believe in karma?
00:29:37You could say I learned that you'd became a Christian because it's around this
00:29:42forgiveness theme which is important in this trial
00:29:45So I would like to ask the the accused of Deutsch if in spite of the fact that he became a Christian
00:29:52Does he believe in that in karma?
00:29:55Karma wouldn't let him off, you know, he's gonna pay. It's just the order of things and their beliefs and whereas Christianity
00:30:02He's okay. He's you're okay, bud. No, we forgive you. There you go
00:30:07It's just it's too convenient. Is that a bit pointed?
00:30:11No, it's your time. A lot of anger and trauma and that's what it is
00:30:16And don't worry about just, you know, be polite, be respectful
00:30:20But I mean, it's not, I mean, it's not a fairytale, I mean, by any means.
00:30:28I'm flaming nervous. It's such a big deal and I know that
00:30:33Talking to Juk what he said in terms of what we're representing as civil parties
00:30:38We're here to help the judges with their sentencing process and if Deutsch gets one year less
00:30:44Than he deserves, then he's won. It has to be nothing else other than for the rest of your living days
00:30:58Is your name correct, Robert Hamill?
00:31:03Yes, that is correct. Kia ora koutou, greetings to all. Your Honours,
00:31:10I strongly believe that my personal suffering cannot be understood
00:31:14Unless the chamber is properly informed about the impact of Kerry's capture and death on our family, which was effectively destroyed
00:31:27Kerry had left New Zealand after going to university and headed towards Darwin
00:31:31Where he aimed to sail around Asia and eventually the world
00:31:39I
00:31:59Really broke me up because to me I see this beautiful girl who's in
00:32:03Love with my brother, and he is just looking real chuffed with themselves
00:32:09He is so chuffed, and he's exceedingly happy, and to me that was just such a beautiful image.
00:32:21I can't remember how long I knew Stu and Kerry before we actually took off. It was only a few months.
00:32:29I didn't actually work on the yacht, but them coming along and saying,
00:32:32oh, we've done this, we've done that, and we've sorted out this, and we're going to be ready to sail in a few days,
00:32:39and it's not a problem, and of course days would go on, and something else has come up,
00:32:45and finally they got it all ready in ship shape.
00:32:54Well, we called it the Hippie Trail in those days.
00:32:56There was a well-worn path up through Asia, through the islands.
00:33:00Indonesia was a definite place that everybody wanted to go to because it was so exotic and still very new then.
00:33:08It wasn't developed at all.
00:33:14And just listening to different music and different sounds of the language, and generally we were very naive.
00:33:26...and you're in the blue moonlight...
00:33:31Unless we indulge in wishful thinking, the lives of Americans remaining in Vietnam after our...
00:33:39You can't exaggerate the sense that Vietnam was the center of the Cold War at that stage in Asia.
00:33:46Let us go to the map again. Here is South Vietnam.
00:33:51The Viet Cong had done incursions into Cambodia and were using Cambodia as a safe haven.
00:33:57As a result, the U.S. felt obliged to go after them on Cambodian soil.
00:34:04I remember when the bombing started. It was amazing. I'd never seen an American bombing. It was extraordinary.
00:34:23On March 18, 1970, there was a coup d'état in Cambodia.
00:34:29President Sihanouk, who was head of state, was deposed while on travel abroad.
00:34:34Sihanouk made the biggest mistake of his life. The Chinese convinced him to join his enemies, the Khmer Rouge.
00:34:42This was huge. It meant that everyone in the countryside, the Cambodians in the countryside who adored him, automatically had sympathy for the Khmer Rouge.
00:34:53It was certainly a mixture of extreme Maoism, romanticizing agrarian life.
00:35:01Mixing into that, I think, some of the Khmer mythology, which is if Angkor Wat could be built by the Khmer in the 12th century,
00:35:12then anything's possible if only the right leaders could come into power.
00:35:22It was awful enough to watch the spiral of destruction in the country. It was so quick.
00:35:28In months, you would see a city going from this gorgeous city to nothing.
00:35:35The Khmer Rouge were cutting off all the routes. There was no food. The corruption got worse and worse. The rich flew away.
00:35:43And, you know, it was emotionally awful. And I had no faith in the Khmer Rouge.
00:35:53And I was way too young. I did not want to stay for it. So I left.
00:36:05A lot of the times, we would deliberately go to beautiful uninhabited islands, especially if we had a charter on.
00:36:29The coral and the fish in that part of the world is just staggeringly beautiful and very, at that stage, wild and untamed.
00:36:45What drew me to Kiri in the first place, of course, was he was drop-dead gorgeous.
00:36:51He was a very practical man, and I really loved that, that he would take the time to show me everything that was on the boat,
00:37:01that I wanted these endless, probably naive, silly questions to him.
00:37:06And he would explain it all, and again, if I didn't get it, and that he would just be generous with his time.
00:37:16And he was to other people as well.
00:37:21We didn't have enough language to get into the politics of the places.
00:37:26So, yes, we didn't have any idea about what was happening with Kampuchea at all.
00:37:33We were in this maybe white man's bubble.
00:37:41I'm sure you can see that at 26 years of age, Kiri was having the time of his life.
00:37:47Fortunately, Gail left the boat at around this time to visit her family.
00:37:53She and Kiri planned to meet up a couple of months later.
00:37:58John Dewhurst, an Englishman, joined Kiri and Stuart on Foxy Lady shortly before he was to return to England.
00:38:17I love those photos. They're sort of family heirlooms now.
00:38:23So when was that? What was the date of that?
00:38:35Doesn't matter.
00:38:36June, July 78.
00:38:38Oh, was it?
00:38:39A couple of months before.
00:38:40Gosh, gosh.
00:38:42Yeah, I've got a nice picture of my brother.
00:38:47It's in a frame, but I keep moving it round the house.
00:38:51It's never been on the wall.
00:38:52Yeah.
00:38:53I move it round the house because I sort of want to know it's there, but I don't want to see it.
00:38:57Yes.
00:38:58So it's hidden behind pieces of furniture.
00:39:04We had the most wonderful, wonderful upbringing.
00:39:08We were just good friends. We had a lot in common.
00:39:11Just an average brother and sister.
00:39:19I don't know what he's doing with my clothes.
00:39:22He's an artist, you see.
00:39:24Yes.
00:39:25Yeah.
00:39:27You know, he was a very sensitive, artistic sort of bloke,
00:39:31and, you know, the whole confession thing, CIA spy.
00:39:35Mm-hm.
00:39:36And you see the sort of person he was,
00:39:41and not the sort of person to be a spy.
00:39:45A CIA agent.
00:39:47Yeah.
00:39:49He did write and tell me that he'd met up with some people who had a boat
00:39:54and he was going to go on this boat and he was really excited about it.
00:39:58He told me it was called Foxy.
00:40:01Foxy?
00:40:02Foxy.
00:40:03Foxy.
00:40:04Foxy.
00:40:05Foxy.
00:40:06Foxy.
00:40:07Foxy.
00:40:08Foxy.
00:40:09Foxy.
00:40:10Foxy.
00:40:11Foxy.
00:40:12Foxy.
00:40:13Foxy.
00:40:14Foxy.
00:40:15Foxy.
00:40:16Foxy.
00:40:17It was called Foxy Lady.
00:40:40On the afternoon of the 13th,
00:40:43we could hear a boat engine at intervals throughout the afternoon,
00:40:47but we couldn't be sure.
00:41:00Shortly after dark, I went below to make some porridge,
00:41:03and suddenly a boat began to close in on us very quickly.
00:41:10The boat came in closer.
00:41:13I was about to go up on deck when the boat opened fire
00:41:17and sent some shots over our mast.
00:41:22The gunboat came in closer and lit us with its spotlight.
00:41:27Stuart was shot,
00:41:29and Kerry helped him out to sea in a Lifebuoy.
00:41:34He told me later that Stuart had died and been buried at sea.
00:41:44Kotang Island is where Kerry and his mates on Foxy Lady
00:41:47were sheltering when they were seized.
00:41:52Kotang was, and still is, some kind of military base.
00:41:58It's so long ago now,
00:42:00however I'm hoping someone actually remembers Kerry.
00:42:05I'm travelling with Kulakasoto,
00:42:07who runs a small fishing village on the island.
00:42:10I'm travelling with Kulakasoto,
00:42:12who runs a production company here in Cambodia,
00:42:15and she'll help me ask some of the locals a few questions.
00:42:25He never sends it since he moved here in the 2000s.
00:42:41This house where we are standing now, you see this concrete?
00:42:45Built by the Khmer Rouge.
00:42:47It used to be the headquarter of the Khmer Rouge.
00:42:50Yeah, Khmer Rouge Navy Base,
00:42:52and your brother could well be springing to here.
00:42:57Of course they should go to the headquarter, isn't it?
00:43:00You would think so.
00:43:02Some sort of processing centre, and this would be the first one.
00:43:06So peaceful.
00:43:10I'm very keen to meet Miamot,
00:43:13the former chief and commander of the Khmer Rouge Navy.
00:43:17I heard he was based at the port where Kerry was captured,
00:43:20and ultimately I believe he is responsible for my brother's fate.
00:43:24I'm sure he would have had the power to release Kerry.
00:43:29This area is pretty much still a Khmer Rouge stronghold.
00:43:32Thousands of former cadre melted back into the building.
00:43:36Many of the leaders, those most culpable,
00:43:39have done very well for themselves.
00:43:42Miamot is typical.
00:43:44As well as having been commander of the Navy,
00:43:47he has also been an advisor to the current government
00:43:50and maintains the position of power, wealth and influence today.
00:43:54Could you ask him if we could have a seat?
00:43:57Yes, of course.
00:43:59This is my brother.
00:44:01Yes.
00:44:03Could you tell me the procedure that you took
00:44:06if a Western boat or any boat was captured?
00:44:08What was the procedure from there?
00:44:10We fought to the very end.
00:44:13We fought to the very end.
00:44:15We didn't have any weapons,
00:44:17so we fought to the very end.
00:44:20We didn't have any weapons,
00:44:22but we fought to the very end.
00:44:25We fought to the very end.
00:44:27Could you ask him about a report that we received suggesting that he personally went out to
00:44:41Koh Teng Island to escort back some Westerners?
00:45:01OK. Philosopher. Right.
00:45:03You know, like, brainwash them. Easy word to say. It's brainwash them.
00:45:07Yeah, OK. And you believe that's his role? Do you believe that?
00:45:10Um, you know, it's hard to say because he has very nice face, very gentle face.
00:45:18Reading his document doesn't match what he look and what he says now.
00:45:23It's normal that not everybody will tell us the truth.
00:45:26No, it's not. It's quite normal.
00:45:31How would they be treated in their time?
00:45:40They were treated like animals.
00:45:44Now it's the same.
00:45:47In any country, they are treated like animals.
00:45:50The people who hate them will not be treated with any mercy.
00:45:57That's how it is.
00:45:59Yeah.
00:46:00He said that, um, I think it is universal.
00:46:03We will not forgive them.
00:46:05We'll have to, to, um, let them go.
00:46:09Exterminate them.
00:46:23If Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge had remained in power to today, um, how much, how much better do you think it would have been?
00:46:39Um, I would like to ask, this is my question.
00:46:43Um, I would like to ask, Pol Pot is good.
00:46:47You believe in the government.
00:46:49Um, why do you think many people don't believe in him?
00:46:52Pol Pot is good.
00:46:55Or, one, the people in Pol Pot are good people.
00:47:01They do good deeds to support, to support the good life of Pol Pot.
00:47:07I haven't seen that in the past.
00:47:09Why is that the reason that pol Pot is good and people are part of him?
00:47:19Why is it that the current government is involved with the government so it is bad for the people?
00:47:26Why does it have to be 3 million people?
00:47:28The government is 3 million.
00:47:30I think it is close to 3 million, maybe I am wrong.
00:47:34Um.
00:47:35How much do you think it is?
00:47:38I can't give you an exact number, but I think it's less than a million.
00:47:47It's less than a million?
00:47:48Yes.
00:47:50He believes it is under one million.
00:48:05It's like one day we are in heaven.
00:48:13The French call us the Pearl of Asia.
00:48:17And then from being the Pearl of Asia to be the Hell of Asia, if you like.
00:48:24And now we are still suffering. Look, look, look, look.
00:48:27If you are out of the city, you see the poverty still exists.
00:48:35I am a Cambodian. I am a Cambodian.
00:48:41I am a Cambodian.
00:48:50I mean, every single Cambodian, whether you are Cambodian local,
00:48:54Cambodian overseas, Cambodian American, Cambodian French,
00:48:58we all got affected. All our family got affected.
00:49:05I was very small. I was born in 1973.
00:49:17So by the time the evacuation took place, when the Khmer Rouge marched in,
00:49:21I was just about two years old.
00:49:24My dad held me in his arms, you know, carrying me out of the country.
00:49:28So my mom, my father and myself, just marching out of the country with other people.
00:49:35All they told us is just to get out of Phnom Penh.
00:49:39Everybody else brings like foods, rice, but my father carried bitter records because he loves music.
00:49:59My father was a pilot. He was a pilot.
00:50:03A pilot?
00:50:04Yeah, a pilot.
00:50:05And when they got into the village, they registered honestly of who they were.
00:50:11So my father was a pilot and that's what he wrote down.
00:50:14They told my mother that they take my father for political study.
00:50:19But when they say political study, it's just the term to use to be taken to kill.
00:50:26Koh Tung is down through there.
00:50:31Yes, down through there.
00:50:33So they would have arrived coming through the gap of those islands there
00:50:37and came straight into this beach, to the naval beach, where the Navy base is.
00:50:44And they would have come through the gap of those islands there
00:50:47and came straight into this beach, to the naval beach, where the Navy base is.
00:50:55It would be so nice for Dad to have shared this time, go out to the island.
00:51:04It would be very difficult for him, but to be able to say goodbye
00:51:09because Mum and Dad didn't get that chance to say goodbye.
00:51:12I always wanted to go back to the village where my father was executed.
00:51:19Just to see where the prisoners were situated and how he's being held in there.
00:51:25Just to see the atmosphere around the area.
00:51:28And yes, exactly the same thing.
00:51:30Just so that I feel like I have touch base with him
00:51:33and just to let me know that he should be proud of how I become today.
00:51:50Khmer Rouge, Cambodia
00:52:04My mother was becoming a rice farmer.
00:52:07She has always trained to be an intellectual.
00:52:10So to go back to be the rice farmer, it was very struggle to begin with.
00:52:15In the Khmer Rouge time, everything belonged to Angka, including the children.
00:52:21I am not my mum's daughter. I am the daughter of Angka.
00:52:25So all the children had to be sent to Angka children's community where they wash your brain.
00:52:32They teach you to identify the mistakes of your parents.
00:52:39There's no relationship, there's no commercial relationship,
00:52:42there's no schools, there's no churches, there's no religion, anything.
00:52:45It was turning the country into a prison camp.
00:52:55Being city dwellers, my family was not capable of living under the conditions that the Khmer Rouge were demanding.
00:53:03My father succumbed to malnutrition and disease.
00:53:09It was a daily struggle for survival, trying to find enough food,
00:53:13trying not to get so sick that you were going to get weaker and weaker and go on a death spiral,
00:53:19as well as trying to make sure you didn't stick out and cause attention upon yourself.
00:53:31I think the killing, they aim for high-ranking politicians,
00:53:36but also killing because of the jealousy, because of the personal revenge also.
00:53:41And also killing because you have fairer skin, you have white skin,
00:53:46and therefore you represent a good life once.
00:53:50You know nothing to do with rice farming.
00:53:53For my father's case, he's a pilot, he's handsome, and he has white skin.
00:53:58So he's a perfectly target.
00:54:02The amazing man whom I have never met.
00:54:06He's a man of many talents.
00:54:14So Mia Mut has confirmed that Kerry and John would have been transported from Sihanoukville to Phnom Penh.
00:54:27And the first person they would have seen when they arrived at Torsling Prison was the photographer, Nam N.
00:54:34Their blindfolds would have been removed and he would have been there before them.
00:55:04I can open a good restaurant, I can open a good hotel.
00:55:09I can open a good school for my students.
00:55:16This is the Polpok village.
00:55:18This is the region where Polpok lives.
00:55:22There are a lot of pigs.
00:55:28This is a national venue.
00:55:30This is a national venue.
00:55:32This means that Polpok has a lot of people who have come from the United States.
00:55:52I've been doing this for more than a year.
00:55:55Did he see much of Duik?
00:55:58I've been doing this for a long time.
00:56:00Back then, I was the only one who could speak English.
00:56:05I was the only one who could speak English.
00:56:11I started in Torsling Prison on the first day of January, 1976.
00:56:19I went to China.
00:56:20I went to China to study photography.
00:56:28When he looks at those photos now, does he see them as art?
00:56:37When he looks at those photos now, does he see them as art?
00:56:49Do you recall taking the photo of the New Zealander?
00:56:58It's been a long time, so I don't know which ethnic group they are from.
00:57:02But I know that they are from New Zealand.
00:57:06If you think about it, it's been 30, 36, 37 years.
00:57:10It's been a long time.
00:57:13I would like to say that the people who lived in New Zealand at that time were their ancestors.
00:57:19Oh, that's right.
00:57:22That's right.
00:57:25I'm taking a picture. I'm taking a picture.
00:57:39This is the first time I've seen him.
00:57:43What do you remember of my brother?
00:58:07What do you remember of my brother?
00:58:11My little brother, who is the only one I remember.
00:58:20And in the period that I did the broadcast, there were only four people left.
00:58:27One Englishman.
00:58:29And for the recent events of the Hamil family,
00:58:39there are a lot of people from New Zealand who have come and gone in the past 21 years.
00:58:59As you will be well aware, Your Honours, in every family, everyone is interconnected.
00:59:06A family shares in happiness and warmth.
00:59:09A family shares in depression and misery.
00:59:13My family's disintegration is my disintegration.
00:59:19Kerry used to write home about once every month.
00:59:22Some weeks passed without any communication from Kerry.
00:59:31The weeks turned to months.
00:59:35Our family home was positioned at the mouth of the Whakatane River.
00:59:41Towards the end of the year, my mother, Esther, would gaze out to sea and say,
00:59:49It's OK. He'll turn up at Christmas and surprise us.
00:59:56Mr President, you, like myself, will perhaps remember the days before mobile phones,
01:00:04the Internet, and 24-7 news.
01:00:09It was in this time of letters and telegrams.
01:00:13My father, Miles Hamil, wrote letters to the ports of Asia and the New Zealand Government
01:00:19requesting information about the Foxy Lady and any possible sightings.
01:00:27I did expect to hear. I wrote off a couple of letters to him.
01:00:35But then I couldn't work out why he hadn't written to me.
01:00:40And I was just very, very upset and thinking,
01:00:46Oh, well, I guess it's over then. If he hasn't written to me, that means he doesn't love me anymore
01:00:51and I'm just going to have to go on with my own life.
01:00:57All the time that my brother was away, we kept in touch, writing letters really regularly.
01:01:03And then his letters stopped.
01:01:06And I think it would be quite a few months I started to worry that I hadn't heard from him.
01:01:13And I desperately wrote letters and just nothing, nothing ever came back.
01:01:25I was 14 when Kerry went missing and 16 when we found out the terrible news.
01:01:34How did you find out?
01:01:36Our neighbours rang us and said, you'd better get the paper.
01:01:39And so I went down with my second eldest brother, John, to the shop
01:01:44and the local dairy guy, Mike, was there and I remember his expression
01:01:48because I was on the front when he handed over the paper.
01:01:50I was on the front page.
01:01:52Yeah, yeah.
01:01:55When I first found out, I was sure I was going to die of this feeling that I've still got.
01:02:07I didn't think you could carry on being alive, feeling like that.
01:02:11Feeling like that.
01:02:21I just shut myself up in the room for a couple of days and wailed my heart out
01:02:27because I just had never conceived that something like that would happen.
01:02:36I remember standing in the kitchen, hugging my father.
01:02:40Both of us crying for what seemed like a very long time.
01:02:44It was the closest I had ever felt to my father.
01:02:48Never in our worst nightmares had we considered the reality of what had happened to Kerry.
01:02:55Death not by shipwreck, not by drowning or freak accident, but death by torture.
01:03:03Death by torture, not over a few seconds or minutes or hours or days or weeks even.
01:03:11Death by torture over a period of months.
01:03:34We had to be very careful.
01:03:36We had to be very careful.
01:03:38We had to be very careful.
01:03:40We had to be very careful.
01:03:42We had to be very careful.
01:03:44We had to be very careful.
01:03:46We had to be very careful.
01:03:48We had to be very careful.
01:03:50We had to be very careful.
01:03:52We had to be very careful.
01:03:54We had to be very careful.
01:03:56We had to be very careful.
01:03:58We had to be very careful.
01:04:01She was blindfolded.
01:04:05She was blindfolded.
01:04:07She was blindfolded.
01:04:10And blindfolded!
01:04:23He was seated on the chair with the number tag on, and he was photographed.
01:04:30It was at that time that I lost my wife.
01:04:52Like Bo Mieng, Van Nath survived Tulsing because he was a good artist.
01:04:56He began these paintings after the fall of the regime
01:04:59to try to capture memories that no one, including many of the survivors, wanted to deal with.
01:05:10I went to S21 and I saw your paintings.
01:05:15That was the first painting he did for S21
01:05:19because back then when he was held as a prisoner
01:05:23he was hoping that if he was still alive
01:05:25he would draw one image that represented the prisoners in there.
01:05:43All you are thinking of is something to eat.
01:05:47He's hungry all the time. He's hungry, hungry, hungry, hungry.
01:05:55I see people, I see people, I see people.
01:05:58Bright light, bright light, bright light, bright light.
01:06:01They are so tall, so tall, like black, like the moon.
01:06:06I see people walking, walking, like that, like that, like that.
01:06:09They are sitting there looking down at the moon like that.
01:06:16Perhaps their faces are like that, like that.
01:06:20I saw a lot of them.
01:06:33When we got in there, there were three of us.
01:06:37We didn't know they were in there.
01:06:40When they came out, they grabbed our hands
01:06:43and started to hit us.
01:06:46There were three of us in front of the Khmers.
01:06:50They hit us in the face.
01:06:53I saw a lot of bruises.
01:06:56I didn't know where they were.
01:06:59I just saw a lot of bruises.
01:07:09I didn't know anything.
01:07:11I didn't go to school.
01:07:14I didn't know what they were doing.
01:07:17They kept asking me to say A, B, C.
01:07:21They hit me in the face.
01:07:24They beat me up.
01:07:27They beat me up.
01:07:30They didn't let me see anything.
01:07:33They kept doing it for three years and eight months.
01:07:36I remember that day very well.
01:07:39I was in the camp for almost four months.
01:07:43How long did it take for you to convince the Khmers?
01:07:51I went to school for about a year.
01:07:54I went to school and went to school again.
01:07:57The teacher had a rule saying that
01:08:00when we walk, we walk with our arms crossed.
01:08:04We didn't walk in a circle.
01:08:07Therefore, we had to walk with our arms crossed
01:08:10I cut it and washed it, washed it and cut it.
01:08:13So, in 1921, I decided to go to Angkor Wat.
01:08:19There, I washed it, washed it and decided to cut it again.
01:08:28At that time, I knew that if I stayed in Cambodia,
01:08:31I wouldn't have a future.
01:08:33I wouldn't be able to take care of myself.
01:08:35Can you describe to me what were the different types of torture
01:08:41that were given to the...
01:08:43To the prisoners.
01:08:44To the prisoners.
01:09:05To feed prisoners with excrement or urinate.
01:09:21He said from that time until now, like a long period,
01:09:25and he saw the man just about 10 minutes,
01:09:28so he's not sure, but he looked familiar.
01:09:33And so, on day nine, because he still says,
01:09:37I don't know about CIA, I do not know about KGB,
01:09:40then they use the pliers to pull his toenail
01:09:44and the nail doesn't come out quickly enough,
01:09:47so they, you know, swirl the nails like this.
01:10:03He knows that there were foreigners in there
01:10:06because there were time to time he heard foreigners screaming,
01:10:09he heard a voice screaming, which is not the Cambodian voice.
01:10:20Did you ever see any Westerners being at S21?
01:10:33Which year was it?
01:10:39Does he recall the height?
01:10:51One is shorter and the other one taller, almost taller than him.
01:10:56He's my brother.
01:10:59That's my brother.
01:11:01He sees him clearly.
01:11:07After the two weeks of torturing,
01:11:10Dutch said to him to draw our big brother portrait,
01:11:14the brother number one, because it is very, very important for us.
01:11:19Oh, he's fast to kill, he cannot be alive until now.
01:11:34His pictures did not save only his life,
01:11:37it saved Dutch's life and Dutch's position.
01:11:40Dutch took it to see the big brother,
01:11:42brother number one portrait,
01:11:44and brother number one was apprehended.
01:11:46And brother number one was appreciated with that painting,
01:11:49that's why they still keep Dutch to work in the prison as the head of the prison.
01:12:17For this portrait, I am very grateful.
01:12:22I want to give my full support to the world,
01:12:25as much as I can.
01:12:27The work of this artist,
01:12:29as much as I can,
01:12:31as much as I can,
01:12:33I would like to say to the world,
01:12:36that the world may be able to do more than I can.
01:12:40I would like to ask you to support me,
01:12:43and I would like to ask you to support my work,
01:12:46and I would like to ask you to support my work,
01:12:49as well as the work of the world.
01:12:52That's all I want to say.
01:13:13I was afraid that they wouldn't want to see me.
01:13:17Normally, when I see them, I want to go in and out.
01:13:21If I didn't want to, I would have known.
01:13:24I wouldn't have come this far.
01:13:28I love you.
01:13:39I love you so much.
01:13:43I love you so much.
01:13:47I love you so much.
01:13:58Since Vanath spoke to me, he's done two paintings of Kerry,
01:14:02one of which is as he remembers him arriving at Torsling with a young guard.
01:14:07Quite painful, but very moving.
01:14:13He then took photographs of many dead people
01:14:17who had received torture to the point that they died,
01:14:21and he would have known that a lot of those people were innocent.
01:14:26We are all human beings,
01:14:29so we all have regrets.
01:14:31But I was born in a temple,
01:14:33so what I see is what I see.
01:14:35It's just me.
01:14:36I don't think much.
01:14:37I don't think much.
01:14:38It's not a sin.
01:14:39But at that time,
01:14:40as they say,
01:14:41you can't forget the past.
01:14:49I believe that
01:14:51I'm not happy about the death of my son.
01:14:57I'm not happy.
01:14:58I'm honest.
01:15:01I have a lot of regrets about my son.
01:15:03I'm afraid because he was killed.
01:15:06And you see, people and everyone knows that.
01:15:09He has been involved with that.
01:15:10So he feels very, very shy with what happened.
01:15:13So he feels sorry for that.
01:15:17You know, for people watching this,
01:15:23that is all you can do.
01:15:26That is all you can say.
01:15:28And that's all we want to hear.
01:15:41I know Kerry was physically and mentally strong.
01:15:45He would not have succumbed easy.
01:15:49I know this individual may not be my brother Kerry,
01:15:53just another poor soul at S21.
01:15:57But the way he is shackled,
01:15:59the way he has been grotesquely beaten,
01:16:03this man's struggle to hold on to life,
01:16:07for me, Mr President,
01:16:10this is my gorgeous,
01:16:13this is my gorgeous, beautiful brother,
01:16:16Kerry Hamill at S21.
01:16:21This is the sort of image that has haunted me
01:16:26when I was 16 and still haunts me today.
01:16:31There was a general culture at the prison
01:16:34that whenever somebody walked into it,
01:16:36they became the walking dead.
01:16:39When that becomes a reality,
01:16:41is once you have signed your confession,
01:16:43it just has to be extracted.
01:16:45And what did they do to my brother
01:16:47to get that confession?
01:16:49I don't know.
01:16:51I don't know.
01:16:52I don't know.
01:16:53I don't know.
01:16:54I don't know.
01:16:55I don't know.
01:16:56I don't know.
01:16:57I don't know.
01:16:58I don't know.
01:16:59I don't know.
01:17:04So there's a confession that's typed in English also?
01:17:07Yeah, so they type it in English and then type it in Khmer.
01:17:10Obviously that's to go to the bosses.
01:17:12This is it.
01:17:13This is Kerry's confession,
01:17:17taken under duress.
01:17:21And I guess this is the Khmer version.
01:17:24I'm from New Zealand,
01:17:26and I am the CIA.
01:17:28I hereby to testify
01:17:30have used the modern equipment of Mary Mary.
01:17:34Ah, Mary Mary.
01:17:35Mary Mary.
01:17:36Yeah, OK.
01:17:37Mary Mary is a,
01:17:39I think it was a gas-fired power station
01:17:41or maybe a coal-fired power station.
01:17:43He's just, you know, there's a lot of humour here.
01:17:46And can you believe,
01:17:48he's just trying to have some fun.
01:17:53I enrolled in the Psychology for Intelligence Officers course.
01:17:56This was taught by an American CIA intelligence officer,
01:17:59Major Roos.
01:18:01Roos, of course, being a con.
01:18:07A course on covers for intelligence officers
01:18:09was given by Colonel Sanders,
01:18:12which is obviously under duress.
01:18:15Kerry was retaining some sort of sense of humour.
01:18:18In New Zealand, where they have CIA officers
01:18:21in Whangarei, Auckland, Hamilton, Rotorua,
01:18:23and that's our hometown, Whakatane,
01:18:25Gisborne, Taupo, Whanganui, Wellington,
01:18:27Blenheim, Christchurch, Dunedin and Westport.
01:18:29And Westport's like a village, the size of,
01:18:31well, back then it was particularly small.
01:18:40It was almost as if he was trying to
01:18:42give some sort of sanity to this insane situation that he was in
01:18:46and almost sending a message back home.
01:18:50Victor Frankel, who was a survivor from the Holocaust,
01:18:53wrote that forces beyond your control
01:18:56can take away everything you possess,
01:18:58except for one thing,
01:19:00the freedom to choose how you will respond to that situation.
01:19:04And for me, Kerry responded
01:19:07with the most incredible courage and strength.
01:19:11We were taught interrogation techniques
01:19:13such as confusion of prisoners' time and space and orientation,
01:19:16the effects of changes in attitude towards the prisoner,
01:19:19lack of sleep, pain, etc.
01:19:24And you could interpret that
01:19:26that's what he was experiencing at that time.
01:19:30A public speaking course was compulsory
01:19:32for all the second-year students.
01:19:34This was taught by Mr S Tarr of the Carnegie Institute.
01:19:38Tarr was the head of the CIA office in Hamilton.
01:19:41He held the rank of captain.
01:19:43And S Tarr, of course, is my mum, Esther.
01:19:49Yeah, and as I said, she was a lovely speaker.
01:19:51She had this lovely Irish lilt that...
01:19:56Yeah, you know, it was a message to my mum.
01:20:00It was a message to my mum.
01:20:04It's a 12-page document that he signed at the end
01:20:07with his thumbprint,
01:20:09basically signing his death warrant.
01:20:13Was there a special branch dealing with the foreigners?
01:20:17And if so, what were the procedures applied to them?
01:20:47HEAVY METAL MUSIC
01:21:17HEAVY METAL MUSIC
01:21:31So the Khmer Rouge retreated
01:21:33into the northwest part of Cambodia
01:21:36and into Thailand,
01:21:38where they found refuge from the Vietnamese.
01:21:41And they set up their operation there
01:21:44to try to win back Cambodia.
01:21:47And they continued to operate from that border region
01:21:51for the next 20 years.
01:21:57Doik runs off with the Khmer Rouge
01:22:00and he ends up becoming a born-again Christian on the way
01:22:04and works for World Vision, changes his name,
01:22:08leads a new life.
01:22:10But there are hints that he has done some terrible things
01:22:14and until he's discovered by journalists,
01:22:20he had been living a pretty normal life.
01:22:30I would like to describe how my family struggled
01:22:33and perhaps failed to cope with my brother's death.
01:22:36With your leave, Mr President,
01:22:38I would like to begin by telling you about my brother John.
01:22:42The loss of his closest sibling had a massive impact on John.
01:22:47Eight months after he found out
01:22:50what had happened to my eldest brother, Kerry,
01:22:54he threw himself off a cliff near our family home.
01:23:00My father, Myles, and my third brother, Peter,
01:23:05were chased as footsteps to the edge of the cliff
01:23:09and saw his body at the bottom of the rocks.
01:23:15He and Kerry were so close.
01:23:17There was only 18 months between them.
01:23:20Kerry could have been called a sensitive New Age guy
01:23:23whereas John was Rolling Stones, you know, Neil Young.
01:23:27But that difference also was a good thing too.
01:23:31I mean, I can't help but think of them together actually.
01:23:35Kerry dying, John six months after we had the memorial for Kerry.
01:23:41Doik, when you killed my brother Kerry,
01:23:46you killed my brother John as well.
01:23:50Can you read it?
01:23:56Every Christmas Day, Mum would disappear and come up here on her own.
01:24:02Did she?
01:24:03Every Christmas Day, she'd say something like,
01:24:06I just have to go out for a while.
01:24:08Go to the shops.
01:24:09Go to the shops.
01:24:10And we knew where she was coming.
01:24:12She was coming here.
01:24:13She was there every Christmas Day.
01:24:15I love you, son.
01:24:18I love you too.
01:24:19I know.
01:24:20You're clever.
01:24:21I know.
01:24:25So Christmas days were pretty tough.
01:24:28No, Christmas was a terrible time for Mum.
01:24:40It's too late for Dad.
01:24:42And obviously my mother, you know, wherever she is.
01:24:48That looks like yesterday.
01:24:51Yep.
01:24:52A very young man.
01:24:53A beauty.
01:24:55A good day for a sail.
01:24:57That's right.
01:24:58That's that photo of the boys after the storm, the Wahine storm.
01:25:01Yeah, yeah.
01:25:02And Kerry's adapted a little mast on the dinghy and the sail,
01:25:05and he's helming the young John.
01:25:07He's going, get out of my way.
01:25:10I mean, he never got any solace.
01:25:13He never got any closure of any shape or form.
01:25:16You know, wind this clock back now
01:25:18for what's going on with the court case now.
01:25:20Wind that back 20 years.
01:25:22But now it's too late.
01:25:23It's too late for Dad.
01:25:29Doik.
01:25:33At times I've wanted to smash you.
01:25:36To use your words.
01:25:39In the same way that you smashed so many others.
01:25:45At times I've imagined you shackled, starved, whipped,
01:25:51and clubbed viciously.
01:25:54Viciously.
01:25:58I have wanted you to suffer.
01:26:01The way that you made Kerry and so many others.
01:26:08However, while part of me has a desire to feel that way,
01:26:14I am trying to let go.
01:26:17And this process is part of that.
01:26:26Sometimes it does give a different perspective
01:26:30to have somebody from a different culture give an account.
01:26:34It's the same shrill cry from Cambodian or New Zealander,
01:26:41black or white.
01:26:42It's the cry of humanity.
01:26:45It was a sad memory.
01:26:49You know, I love family member, I love parents like you.
01:26:54But I had no chance to speak everything like you did.
01:26:57I think you did wonderful jobs.
01:27:00Sometimes one can't get the point across with one argument.
01:27:04It's that second attempt to portray the same scenario differently
01:27:10that hits home and say, ah, now I understand.
01:27:16Let's recall that unlike his prisoners at S21,
01:27:21to whom this accused denied even the slightest shred of humanity,
01:27:27he has been met with open and even-handed justice in this court.
01:27:31If you allow all this performance of Doig to reduce his sentence,
01:27:36victims are losing.
01:27:38Sure.
01:27:39Even in this one year,
01:27:41there are no more victims.
01:27:43It's a big loss.
01:27:45A big loss.
01:27:47There is no more Doig.
01:27:48There is no more Doig.
01:27:50Because Doig is a human being.
01:27:52Doig is a human being.
01:27:54He is a human being.
01:27:56He is a human being.
01:27:58Victim are losing, even as one year, even as one month, they are losing.
01:28:04There were 12,380 moments when the accused could have done the right thing.
01:28:21What is fairness?
01:28:22Fairness for me would be he should be killed the way he killed the prisoner.
01:28:26He should be tortured the way he tortured the prisoner.
01:28:29That would be fair.
01:28:30So we are not talking about fair anymore.
01:28:32We are talking about acceptable.
01:28:34And acceptable for me is life sentences.
01:28:37We implore you that you do not come back with a sentence for less than 40 years.
01:28:57We call on the souls of our beloved brothers and sisters
01:29:02who have died in Pulselide and Cherng Ay
01:29:05after enduring unspeakable atrocities
01:29:09in the hope that you will finally receive justice.
01:29:14I actually feel Kerry's kind of presence actually.
01:29:26It sounds a bit odd.
01:29:28You know, I'd like to think he's here watching us,
01:29:30looking down, saying it's about bloody time.
01:29:33It's about bloody time.
01:29:40Tomorrow will be a test.
01:29:43There's that old adage that judges try hard cases,
01:29:48but hard cases also try judges.
01:29:51They have to assess the submissions of the defense
01:29:54and of the prosecution of the civil parties
01:29:56and put forward a story that actually will do justice
01:30:01to the people that have suffered, the people that have lost,
01:30:03and to the people of Cambodia that have waited far too long
01:30:07for anything approaching justice.
01:30:43The president today declares the judgment of the accused.
01:31:06The chamber has found the accused criminally responsible
01:31:11for the following offenses, crimes against humanity,
01:31:17murder, extermination, enslavement, imprisonment,
01:31:25torture, including rape, and other inhuman acts
01:31:31perpetrated against at least 12,273 people
01:31:37over a prolonged period.
01:31:42Will the accused, Kang Kik-il, please rise.
01:31:52The majority of the chamber sentence Kang Kik-il
01:31:57to a single sentence of 35 years of imprisonment.
01:32:07Thank you.
01:32:37Thank you.
01:33:08Yeah, of course, yeah.
01:33:21He could live to be a free man. He's, what, 66?
01:33:2467.
01:33:2567.
01:33:26So 19 years, 86, that's definitely possible.
01:33:30My father's older than that.
01:33:32Aside from the tariff and sentence,
01:33:35symbolically, what does this represent to you
01:33:38after such a long time of waiting?
01:33:40It's a completion of a journey from a brother.
01:33:52You know, our family suffered a great deal,
01:33:54and the people of Cambodia suffered enormously,
01:33:57and I only hope this is the first shackle to be broken
01:34:02of the chains that have been holding down this country,
01:34:04this beautiful country, the beautiful people.
01:34:10And it's the process of letting my brother go.
01:34:2431 years ago, my brother was captured by a Khmer Rouge gunboat.
01:34:31Stuart Glass, his Canadian friend, was killed at that time,
01:34:35and he's out here in these waters somewhere, his remains.
01:34:40And Kiri has never returned to us in any form.
01:34:45And I want to be able to say goodbye to him.
01:34:48I want to let him go. I want to say farewell.
01:34:51And I think now's the time.
01:34:53I was given a special taonga, or treasure, from a friend back in New Zealand.
01:34:58He said, you may not want to do anything with it,
01:35:01but then again, you might find the time and the place
01:35:07where you may want to just do something with it.
01:35:11This is a green stone. It's a beautiful stone.
01:35:20This is where the horror began.
01:35:22It's a gorgeous, beautiful bubble.
01:35:52It's a beautiful bubble.
01:36:01May he rest in peace.
01:36:14A guilty verdict has been reached in the Doik case.
01:36:17The trial of the ECCC will shift now to Case 002.
01:36:22Four members of Pol Pot's inner circle,
01:36:25Nun Cher, Kyu Sampan, Yang Sari, and Yang Teret,
01:36:29have been indicted and face a range of charges,
01:36:32including genocide and crimes against humanity.
01:36:36Some of the evidence that came to light in the Doik trial
01:36:39will be instrumental in the prosecution of the former leaders,
01:36:43who, unlike Doik, have so far denied responsibility
01:36:46for the crimes of the Khmer Rouge period.
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