Kent Film Club - Howard Perry (Thursday 11th July)
This week Chris Deacy is joined in the studio by Howard Perry to discuss the films; The Mummy, Singin' in the Rain, Star Wars: A New Hope, and Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring.
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00:00Hello and welcome to Kent Film Club, I'm Chris DC and each week I'll be joined by
00:18a guest from Kent to dive deep into the impact certain films have had on their life.
00:23Each guest will reflect on the films which have meant the most to them over the years.
00:28And every week there will be a Kent Film Trivia where we quiz you at home about a film that
00:32has a connection to the county.
00:35And now let me introduce you to my guest for this week.
00:38He is an independent director, screenwriter and producer specialising in period and fantasy
00:44drama films.
00:45He is Howard Perry.
00:48Great to have you on the programme Howard.
00:49Hello Chris, it's a pleasure to be here.
00:51Absolutely lovely to meet you.
00:52Now I don't know your film choices in advance but I can see that you've gone for The Mummy.
00:56The Mummy, yes, well that's one of the first ones.
01:01The films I've chosen today are largely about the things that have impacted on me.
01:04So many films to choose from but the key thing about The Mummy and all the films I've chosen
01:12today is that they're turning points in the history of cinema, in my opinion.
01:18And what we see with The Mummy is that we've just moved to the state of CGI and this is
01:24one of the early films that involved motion capture.
01:27So we were actually, as cinema progressed, we were able to get more and more detail into
01:33the special effects and that's one of the key points of The Mummy.
01:37So this came out, what, 1999?
01:391999, indeed it's the first of a franchise which there have been many Mummy films since
01:46that.
01:47And I remember that scene, Rachel Weisz, in the bookcase, wasn't it, that falls over.
01:50It's funny, one of those moments, I'm not sure how iconic that one is, but of all the
01:54scenes in the film, that's the one that particularly stands out from what was, as you say, quite
01:59a special effects laden, and it fits completely everything that I was saying about you in
02:04the bio as well with all the fantasy and all the historical drama.
02:08Indeed.
02:09And the storyline with the exposition starting back in ancient Egypt with the high priest
02:18Imhotep who is then mummified for philandering with the pharaoh's, one of his wives.
02:26And the story then, once the exposition of the story is set on the history of The Mummy,
02:33we then move to 1930s which was a very big time for exploration, particularly around
02:41Egypt and the pharaohs.
02:45So we've got this team of adventurers in the form of Rachel Weisz as Evie and Brendan
02:52Fraser as Rick O'Connell and Evie's sister in the film as Jonathan Hanna.
02:59And between them they are exploring, finding the lost city of Hammanaptra and in so doing
03:07they inadvertently awaken Arnold Vosloo as The Mummy and he's set on bringing the plagues
03:16to the world and kidnapping Rachel Weisz and sacrificing her to bring his lost girlfriend
03:24back from ancient Egypt and to start a new reign of terror around the world.
03:31So it's full of action.
03:35I remember when this came out, people were making the association with the Indiana Jones
03:39films and when National Treasure came out, which I really liked the first one anyway
03:42in 2004, that was also billed as sort of the Indiana Jones in an age when Indiana Jones
03:48isn't being made.
03:49And then of course they made a couple more Indiana Jones films, but how did The Mummy,
03:53first of all do you think that's a fair comparison, but do you think that this stands up, because
03:59I saw this in the middle of June 1999, how do you think this stands up to scrutiny today?
04:05Oh it doesn't quite stand up to the scrutiny I think, but it's the moment in time that
04:10it creates.
04:11If you think about the point of motion capture for example, CGI was just about coming on
04:17stream.
04:19So there we were with trying to create a new film, something that was a little bit different,
04:28but then using this growing CGI ability, so a lot of the time Paul Vossier was wandering
04:36around in a capture suit, and certainly the scenes within the pyramid, and one of the
04:41key things which started Brendan Fraser's career is the choreography of the fight scenes.
04:48He choreographed the fight scenes himself, and for a lot of the film when he's fighting
04:54these mummies and monsters, he's in an empty room, and he's fighting nothing with his swords
05:03and he and Rachel Weisz, but for each take he could replicate every single move so they
05:10could get the whole sequence, and it set him down as a person apart in the adventure genre,
05:18and he obviously went on to make more and had a very successful career, but those defining
05:23moments really.
05:24Now that makes a lot of sense because you had George of the Jungle before, but obviously
05:28he really, this is the niche, and of course when he won the Oscar a year or two ago it
05:32was for a very different type of film, but of course he's been away for a while as well.
05:36So he does put an awful lot into his films, and in terms of the scrutiny, the thing that
05:43comes out, because being this is the first of the franchise, was the on-screen relationship
05:50between Brendan Fraser and Rachel Weisz, and how that played through the film in a
05:58very authentic way, and that warmth that comes through in the storytelling as well I thought
06:05was still, having seen it in the last week or so, really stood up I thought amongst the
06:11genre.
06:12And particularly if they were doing this against a green screen, well maybe not those scenes,
06:16but actually to try and find, because you work in this area, but to try and find that
06:20sort of authenticity when there is, obviously what we see on the screen as an audience is
06:26not what actually is going on in the studio or on the set.
06:30No, indeed, and it's a very difficult thing to play against, and a true tribute.
06:36You understand the quality of the actors and the people involved when they can pull off
06:41that authenticity once it's been breathed in.
06:44Brilliant, well it's time now to move on to your second chosen film, and you've gone
06:49for, well I can say that I've absolutely seen this and been mesmerised by it many times,
06:56Singing in the Rain.
06:57Singing in the Rain, well I mean part of my selection today is about the history of cinema,
07:04and this is a good example, going back 1952, although it is set in the 1920s, so arguably
07:13you could say it's set in a hundred years ago.
07:17So cinema was just in the transition from the talking into talkies, so there were silent
07:24films, and the film exposition is that we've got two silent film stars, Don Lockwood, played
07:33by Gene Kelly, and Jane Hargan played Lena, his co-star at that point, and they were big
07:45stars of the silent film, and Gene Kelly falls in love with one of the chorus girls who's
07:54played by Debbie Reynolds, and she was 19 at the time, so we're moving into a musical
08:01and a dance film for somebody who was not a trained dancer, she could sing, and she
08:06was a gymnast, so she had the ability, but Gene Kelly taught her to dance in the film,
08:14and for the film, which was quite a move forwards, and certainly if we take the storyline, the
08:22storyline picks up the love interest between Gene Kelly and Debbie Reynolds, and the jealousy
08:29of his co-star, the studio have to move very quickly into talking film, talking movies,
08:40and of course the co-star can't sing, and she's got a horrendous accent.
08:46So this is the plot develops in that Debbie Reynolds dubs her voice and her singing over
08:54the character of Lena Lamont.
08:56I was just thinking, because the most recent Downton Abbey film plays on the same trope,
09:02doesn't it, and almost a replica of the magic that was this, because as you say, 1952, at
09:08the very time that cinema was going widescreen, competing with television, but also it was
09:13a heart back to a previous era, as you say, set right on the cusp of the end of the 1920s,
09:18because the Jazz Singer was the first big block of film, but this is exactly what it
09:21is.
09:22It's the trigger for all the studios suddenly getting a panic on, that we can't put out
09:29silent films anymore.
09:31So we've got to go, and anybody who's, any independent filmmaker, anybody who's
09:35stumbled in trying to create authentic sound in their film, without using professional
09:44sound teams, the trope that's in Singing in the Rain is something that we all feel
09:53when your sound isn't going right, and the talent that is underrated in the film profession
10:01is one of sound capture and the sound team, who I think really come into their own, because
10:07we can excuse a lot on a film, what we can't excuse is poor sound.
10:12Yes, and I'm just thinking as well, because Stanley Donan, isn't it, who is the director?
10:15It is Stanley Donan, yes, yes.
10:16And this is the sort of film that everybody's, you've got the Moses Supposers, you mentioned
10:20The Good Morning, but it's completely laden with all these sort of very classic song and
10:25dance routines.
10:26Yes.
10:27But a story undergirding it.
10:28Absolutely.
10:29Well, the slight difference, I think, with this compared to American in Paris and those
10:34other early films was that they were built on a catalogue of existing music that was
10:43pulled together to make the film, but the work for here was Arthur Freed, and he had
10:53songs specially for the film, and so they created it in a wonderful way, really, because
11:01they're memorable now, but they weren't at the time.
11:05So they didn't have, they had a back catalogue to pull on, but they hadn't appeared in shows,
11:12they hadn't been in Broadway at all.
11:14These were brand new as far as the public were concerned.
11:17So it was really a work of synthesis.
11:19Yes, indeed.
11:20Very much so.
11:21Yeah.
11:22And when was the last time you saw this?
11:24Two days ago.
11:25Yeah.
11:26And every Christmas before that.
11:27I had a feeling you were going to say that.
11:30Well, that's about all the time we have for this first half of the show.
11:33However, before we go to the break, we have a Kent film trivia question for you at home.
11:39Which actor from The Other Berlin Girl has a connection to Kent?
11:43Is it A. Jim Sturgess, B. Mark Rylance, or C. Oliver Colman?
11:51We'll reveal the answer right after this break.
11:53Don't go away.
11:54Hello, and welcome back to Kent Film Club.
12:09Just before the ad break, we asked you at home a Kent film trivia question.
12:13Which actor from The Other Berlin Girl has a connection to Kent?
12:17Is it A. Jim Sturgess, B. Mark Rylance, or C. Oliver Colman?
12:22Now I can reveal to you that the answer was, in fact, B. Mark Rylance.
12:26The actor who portrays Sir Thomas Berlin in the film was actually born in Ashford.
12:32Did you get the answer right?
12:33Well, it is time now to move on to your next chosen film.
12:37And you've gone for Star Wars A New Hope.
12:42Yes, I mean, we call it episode four now.
12:48And it was, in fact, the first one.
12:51And for me, it's Star Wars.
12:54And everything that came after was, in fact, coming after.
12:57We've seen so much.
12:59But coming back to the earlier point about moments in time, here we are, 1977.
13:07We've had Star Trek.
13:09We've had television sci-fi with dodgy sets.
13:16And suddenly we go into the cinema, and that opening scene, and the little spaceship comes
13:23onto the screen, flies through the screen.
13:25And then the room starts to vibrate, and the sound builds.
13:30And then we get the enormous spacecraft chasing it.
13:34And suddenly we're into a universe far, far away.
13:37And we get the crawl, which was now, I mean, it's Star Wars now, isn't it?
13:42But the opening exposition of the crawl that goes through the screen, giving you the backstory
13:49of how we're approaching this fight, the Empire, the rebels, and then the creation of the storyline
13:58that we then move into with Darth Vader and Princess Leia.
14:03I mean, the characters, I'm sure there aren't many people listening and watching today who
14:10don't know the characters and who's involved.
14:13But once again, in defining moments, that was a major step forward for the cinema.
14:21We were moving now into believable scenarios in purely fantasy worlds.
14:31And I was just thinking as well, because we were just talking about singing in the rain,
14:36and of course that was iconic.
14:38Debbie Reynolds, of course, was a 19-year-old.
14:42And then her daughter, of course, making, I think, her film debut in this.
14:46So there's Hollywood in playing out on screen and off screen.
14:50Yes, indeed.
14:52And if we take it as a film, George Lucas there sort of thinking about creating this.
15:04But it was touch and go.
15:07It had a couple of faders to start.
15:09It took years to get going.
15:11When we finally got it with 20th Century Fox, they disbanded their visual effects team.
15:18So he started on set, and there's no group to do that.
15:23So he started Industrial Light and Magic, which now is de facto one of the biggest visual
15:30effects companies.
15:32But it all started here in Star Wars.
15:35The creation of getting scale from small models, to be able to create the landscapes
15:41of Tatooine and now Mos Eisley and all the things that we talk about almost in Star Wars
15:50lore and legend, all commenced here.
15:54So whilst it might have been in the middle of the storyline, and George Lucas storyboarded
16:00the whole sequence, certainly from start to finish, but this is how it was meant to start.
16:08And afterwards, we all know the history in a way, but it's still iconic, particularly.
16:14And I was watching an interview that Michael Parkinson did with Alec Guinness.
16:18And of course, Alec Guinness was a very veteran established actor by this point.
16:22And of course, people think he did a brilliant performance.
16:25But of course, I'm not entirely sure that he necessarily quite knew what he was playing
16:30at the time.
16:31No, no, absolutely.
16:32And to an extent, I think his agreement was that he wouldn't even get involved in the
16:40publicity.
16:42But he did take royalties as part of the remuneration.
16:46So he had that sense there.
16:48But even back to George Lucas, I mean, he wanted to make a Flash Gordon.
16:55And in one sense, this was kind of a B film.
17:00It was a B movie.
17:01It wasn't meant to be a blockbuster.
17:05But it built and built and built on the quality of both the acting, the storyline, the characters,
17:11and the imagination.
17:13And I don't even think he was at the premiere.
17:15I think he was on holiday in Hawaii with Steven Spielberg talking about inventing Rage of
17:20the Lost Ark is the storyline, or that's the folklore, I guess.
17:27And he settled for a lesser finishing fee for finishing the film in exchange for the
17:35merchandising and the rights for the film.
17:39And who could have known?
17:40Because when he made American Graffiti a few years earlier, I mean, who would have thought
17:43that this, as you say, this B movie would have been as iconic, I mean, not just iconic,
17:48I mean, actually, it's completely redefined the genre.
17:52Absolutely, redefined the genre completely.
17:55And as you say, who can tell that until after it was seen and the audience reaction?
18:00Because I don't even think it was critically acclaimed before, even from the early reviews
18:04and so on.
18:05But once you get it into that cinema, and the audience picked it up, and suddenly the
18:09numbers start rolling in, that was it.
18:12And that was the start.
18:13And here we are in 2024, and we're still making it in spinoffs and franchises.
18:21And it's going on.
18:23And here we are, what, 47 years later.
18:26Well, I can't wait to see what your final chosen film is.
18:28So we're going to find out what your final chosen film is.
18:32And The Lord of the Rings, The Fellowship of the Ring, I kind of feel that that was
18:37almost perfectly written for me.
18:41You could have guessed it.
18:42I mean, Peter Jackson's work and Fran Walsh, I mean, they wanted to do something like Tolkien.
18:53And every time they wrote a treatment or a scenario, it came back to looking and sounding
18:58exactly like something that Tolkien would have written, as in The Lord of the Rings.
19:03Once again, another false start on several occasions, eventually getting budgets together
19:09to get it started.
19:12The vision and turning here, for me, the using both location and special effects, I mean,
19:19this film was the start of the Weta Workshop.
19:21I mean, now the Weta Workshop is almost like industrial light and magic for special effects,
19:27for creatures, for costume.
19:28It's an amazing company.
19:30So we've got the start of this new franchise, which they didn't know was going to work,
19:35but using New Zealand as the locations.
19:37I mean, it's naturally a film set.
19:39I spent three months wandering around New Zealand looking at the film sets that they've
19:43done.
19:44They did for Lord of the Rings, as I'm sure others have.
19:47Well, I was going to ask you, so you have a stake in this or, you know, you're...
19:52No, this was long after even the trilogy had been produced.
19:56So you went back to retrace the steps.
19:58Yes, yes.
19:59And some of them are still there.
20:00I mean, Hobbiton is a tourist site now, but certainly Mount Olympus, where the scene where
20:08the ravens come in to, I've been up on the helicopter and the fire is still there on
20:12the mountain, where Gandalf and Frodo kicked it over to escape the ravens and hide in the
20:18rocks.
20:19And obviously this genre has come up quite a few times in your selection so far, but
20:24do you think that this particular entry, obviously it was the first one, is this one that blows
20:30the others away?
20:31Do you have to see them as a companion?
20:32Because I saw this one at the cinema, I'll be absolutely honest, when they came out,
20:36because they came out at the same time as the Harry Potter films, and I saw some of
20:40them and I didn't see all of them, but some people will watch them.
20:43We had a guest on this programme not too many weeks ago who chose the third in the entry
20:46and saw it multiple times in the cinema.
20:49So what's the particular appeal?
20:50Well, I think the particular appeal was because it was groundbreaking in the first.
20:57And whilst I think, and I've chosen these because of the impact on me personally.
21:02Was it the best Lord of the Rings film?
21:04I don't think so.
21:05I think you need the whole trilogy and there are elements of all of them.
21:10And as the story developed, the characters developed, I think we see that if you put
21:16them quickly side by side, you see that the individuals playing the roles developed quite
21:22significantly.
21:23But for me, it was the groundbreaking elements again.
21:27And as a filmmaker, to actually start with an idea and then think about how am I going
21:31to get that really working.
21:33To actually then come up with a process for casting where, so they were casting the locations.
21:40So we had teams going out through sending in pictures and sort of descriptions that
21:46he would match to the storyline and the Tolkien descriptions of the venues and so on, deciding
21:53how that was going.
21:54That's alongside the casting of the characters and then the invention of and the building
21:59of the Weta Workshop, a small company, tiny company in Wellington.
22:06They started work on the costumes, then the creatures and the characters, that's expanded
22:12and their authenticity, I mean, authenticity because there's nothing to follow, but the
22:16attention to detail that they can achieve in the workshop.
22:20And now they're in so many films, I noticed that, gosh, they were on Stranger Things,
22:26they've done with the Netflix work.
22:28So all of that work on Upside Down in Stranger Things, it's all coming through from the Weta
22:33Workshop.
22:34Do you think that there's going to be another big trilogy in the future?
22:37So we have this trilogy, of course, we had the Star Wars in 1977.
22:40Do you think that these are unique or do you think that somebody in a decade or two will
22:47have a new vision that sort of does to, in the 2030s, what Star Wars did in the 1970s
22:54and Lord of the Ring did in the early 2000s?
22:57I'd like to think so.
22:58And I think when we move towards virtual reality, 360 degree camera-ing, I think as we explore
23:05some of those things, I'm agnostic about AI, I'm not sure where its role fits.
23:11I know there's a move towards either ignoring it completely and putting it to bed or embracing
23:17it fully.
23:18I think as with all of these things that came along from green screen, motion capture, scale,
23:24digital building, I think all of those things have a role and I think it will have a role.
23:29I'm just not sure what it is yet and that's the exciting thing.
23:32I'm afraid that's all the time we have for today.
23:35Many thanks to Howard Perry for joining us and being such a brilliant guest.
23:39And many thanks to you all for tuning in.
23:41Be sure to come back and join us again at the same time next week.
23:45Until then, that's all from us.
23:47Goodbye.