New Avenues: The Business of Sports with moderator: Randall Lane, Chief Content Officer, Forbes and panelists Lindsey Vonn, Olympic Champion, Entrepreneur and Founder, Lindsey Vonn Foundation, Michael Strahan, Pro Football Hall of Famer, Broadcaster, and Entrepreneur and Sonia Gardner, President, Managing Partner and Cofounder, Avenue Capital Group
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LifestyleTranscript
00:00For our next conversation, New Avenues, the Business of Sports,
00:04please welcome moderator, Randall Lane, Chief Content Officer, Forbes,
00:09and panelist, Lindsay Vaughn, Olympic champion, entrepreneur, and founder,
00:14Lindsay Vaughn Foundation, Michael Strahan, Pro Football Hall of Famer,
00:19broadcaster, and entrepreneur, and Sonia Gardner, president, managing partner,
00:25and co-founder, Avenue Capital Group.
00:31Hello, hello, hello, hello.
00:32We got fans, I love it.
00:33Yeah, I love it.
00:34That's all, yeah, we're hyped now.
00:37Last year, Michael, you and I were on stage here with Mark Lazzari,
00:42and it was a fun panel, but it was in part fun
00:45because you guys were basically playing the business version of footsie
00:48between the two of you.
00:51And now, I was like, well, what's going on here?
00:53Well, it turns out that you're now kind of married
00:58and that we have Sonia Gardner, who's Mark's business partner at Avenue,
01:04and sister, and you guys, and Lindsay as well,
01:08are part of this new Avenue Sports Fund.
01:11And so, look, see what happens at Iconoclast, things happen, you know?
01:14People are talking, but tell us about what's going on, guys.
01:17So, if you go to Avenue's website, and this is a massive, obviously,
01:21you know, a massive money manager, and it's like,
01:24we invest in America, Europe, and sports.
01:28Those are like the three legs of the stool almost.
01:29So, this is clearly, this is not just something on the side.
01:33This is a big, big initiative.
01:34Tell us about it.
01:35And last year when we did this, you said Mark and I were playing footsies,
01:41but we thought about working together.
01:43We've been trying to find a way to work together for a long time,
01:46and this, you know, starting a sports fund is something that really gelled well
01:50with where we both are, you know, with Mark selling to Milwaukee Bucks
01:54and still wanting to be in sports, still want to be involved in sports.
01:57And for me, where I am in my career, in my life, in my relationships,
02:01it was a perfect marriage.
02:03And we have created the Avenue Capital Sports Fund.
02:06We brought the better half of it, Sonja here.
02:08You know, Mark is cool, but I prefer playing footsies with you than Mark.
02:13Mark's cool, Sonja's cooler.
02:15And we've, yeah, we've built out the company advisory board,
02:20so of athletes who are, you know, part of our company being Lindsey being one,
02:27Lauren Holliday, Candice Parker, Harry Kane over in Europe, and Steph Curry.
02:33So...
02:34It's like forgetting about, you know, and Steph, you know.
02:36Yeah, but it's interesting because it was kind of my job to call most of them
02:42to say, hey, are you interested in this?
02:44But it was also important to pick the right people.
02:49And Lindsey was first on my list, first call I made,
02:52because I knew that Lindsey would work.
02:55And all of us are workers.
02:57And it goes back to the motto, H-L-Y-B, hustle like you're broke.
03:01And that's what we do as athletes on the field, and that's what we're doing now
03:05in this space.
03:06Right, right, right.
03:06So how much have you guys raised, and what are you looking to do now?
03:09Or are doing?
03:10You're already putting a lot of money to work, so...
03:12So we just had a close, and we've raised $500 million.
03:17We just started really having our first close at the very end of November,
03:23even though Mark has been talking about it since he sold the bucks.
03:27But so it hasn't been really that long.
03:30And we're going to have multiple closes in the summer and then the fall
03:36into next year.
03:37So it's going to be an 18-month fundraise.
03:40The ultimate goal is a billion and a half.
03:43Okay, big fun.
03:44Are you guys involved in the fundraising?
03:46Yeah, I was just in Hong Kong.
03:48Yeah, Mike is a friend.
03:49Yeah, we work.
03:50We actually work.
03:50You're working like a...
03:51Mike was actually...
03:52It's just not a name or a face.
03:53We actually got to work.
03:54I'm like, I have enough jobs.
03:55What is this?
03:57Yes, Mike's on TV every day.
04:00So I was out in Hong Kong with Mark, and we did a fundraise there,
04:03and we worked with JP Morgan.
04:06Yeah.
04:07You guys had a big meeting not too long ago.
04:09We had another fundraise in Miami.
04:11So we're kind of all over the place all the time.
04:13Yeah, so we make sure every week, we all participate.
04:17This isn't, say, put your name on it and a vanity thing.
04:20What's it like for the two of you who are used to negotiating,
04:24how much money are you going to give me for this endorsement?
04:26How much, Michael, are you going to give me for my next contract
04:29that you now have to ask?
04:32How does that experience?
04:34We flipped the script.
04:35It's weird.
04:36It's weird.
04:37But I never had a problem asking for money for myself.
04:40You've always got a lot of money.
04:42No one works for free.
04:44But, you know, so I think I'm learning a lot being in the room,
04:49having these conversations with potential investors about,
04:54you know, their money, what we would do with their money,
04:56how we would spend their money, the responsibility of it all.
05:00Because I take it personally, I have a responsibility as someone
05:03who invests in us that we want to make sure we live up to what we say.
05:07So it's a lot of pressure and that, but I'm learning a lot.
05:09And I actually enjoy it.
05:10I enjoy the conversations.
05:12I enjoy the process.
05:13So, Sonia, what are some of the investments so far that you guys have
05:15either made or are looking to make?
05:17So our first investment was TGL Golf.
05:22And not only do they sit in on it.
05:25That's the Tiger Woods Golf Club.
05:26That's Tiger Woods and, yeah.
05:29But Michael was instrumental in helping us get that,
05:32as well as Steph Curry, because the team is in San Francisco.
05:37It's the Bay Golf Club.
05:38And so it's not just, like Michael said, you know, a lot of pretty faces.
05:45I mean, Lindsay being the most.
05:48That they really work hard.
05:51So with TGL, it was a tie, right?
05:54I mean, they had put a price that they wanted and there was multiple firms
05:58that wanted to be involved.
06:00And Michael and Steph Curry both kind of worked it from behind the scenes
06:06and that's how we got that.
06:09Unfortunately, they had a little bit of an accident with the roof collapsing.
06:13So the season's not starting until next January.
06:16We invested in Team USA Sale GP.
06:19We have a big event this weekend in Governor's Island.
06:24And so we decided to put Lindsay on the board.
06:28And so she's been instrumental in helping us with sponsorships and, again,
06:35working very hard and she's going to be at the event.
06:38I mean, she can talk more about it.
06:41But those are the emerging leagues.
06:43We've also invested in the PGA.
06:46We are right now working on the MLB.
06:51Michael can talk a little bit about our efforts with the NFL.
06:56And we just, although the press release hasn't been issued yet,
07:00so I can't say the name, but we just invested in an English football league,
07:06English football league team.
07:07And so that's also very exciting.
07:09And there's one more, NASCAR.
07:11Well, NASCAR is at term sheet stage.
07:13So, yeah, not yet, not yet.
07:16We haven't closed yet.
07:16We'll get coming.
07:18You're going to know that the deal closed when Michael has a big mustache
07:22and a can of Bush beer.
07:24Then we'll know it's done.
07:25I can only turn left.
07:26Exactly, exactly.
07:28So you actually teased NFL.
07:30Now, right now, Michael, but NFL funds can't buy in the NFL yet.
07:35But I guess there must be an interest from your point of view.
07:39I mean, imagine owning an NFL team.
07:41I mean, that would be the ultimate thing to play here in this city for 15 years
07:44and be around the game for the last 16 years covering for Fox.
07:49To actually have ownership or a part of a team would be really special.
07:53And the NFL hasn't allowed any funds to invest in sports.
07:56I mean, we all know that.
07:57But, you know, the NBA has.
07:59They were the first ones to kick it off.
08:00And the way it kind of goes, I guess the NBA starts stuff and they figure it out,
08:04gambling, you name it.
08:05And then the NFL says, okay, they got it right.
08:08Let's swoop in and take all the money.
08:10And so the NFL would definitely do it because you have these teams and there's
08:14just a limited pool of people who could purchase the teams at the valuation that
08:18they are right now.
08:19No, because they don't let you take a lot of debt on it and they want individual
08:23controlling.
08:24Now with $6 billion teams, there are, you know, a few dozen people really who
08:28realistically can do that.
08:29So they will have to.
08:31And it allows the owners to have some liquidity.
08:33It also allows the value of the franchises to rise if you can have
08:36institutional money.
08:37And we're one of the four or five funds that they're looking at because the NFL
08:43owners are going to cut it down to four or five to decide which one they want to
08:47invest in a league.
08:48And we're one of those.
08:49And for me, I hope that, you know, my presence and the presence of everyone else
08:53helps us get over the hump when it comes to, you know, being involved.
08:57Because there are other athletes who are involved in funds.
09:00But I look at myself and I, you know, it's kind of like always, in a lot of ways,
09:04post-season success of the NFL kind of always showing me kind of the poster
09:10child.
09:10Well, here's a way to really put me on the poster is by letting me become involved
09:14with the league.
09:14That'd be fantastic.
09:15I hope that happens for us.
09:16Great, Kota.
09:18There's a lot, you know, we've seen in the last few months, it's been a real wow
09:22moment for women's sports.
09:23Is that, A, an area, obviously, Lindsay, you've been a big, you know, proponent of
09:28that for years.
09:29Is that an area you guys are going to focus on?
09:31And do you also, second part of the question, is this another one of those
09:35moments where people talk about it and it doesn't follow through?
09:37Or do we finally have that real moment right now?
09:39Yeah, absolutely.
09:40I mean, the nice thing about CLGP is that it's a co-ed sport.
09:44I can't really think of any other pro sports that have both men and women
09:49competing together as equal parts.
09:52I definitely think, you know, it depends on what makes sense, but we are
09:55absolutely behind the women's movement.
09:56I think this is just the beginning of what women's sports will become.
10:00And, you know, I think when we look at investments, we look at, okay, what are
10:04the TV rights deals?
10:06Who's watching?
10:06How many people are watching?
10:08And women's sports is obviously, has incredible numbers across the board, not
10:13just in basketball.
10:14So I absolutely think we'll be investing a lot more in women's sports.
10:18Also, there's so much upside, untapped upside, where NFL, you're going to have
10:23to really crank it to make those numbers work.
10:26Well, we're looking at women's soccer and we have Lauren Holliday, who, you
10:32know, again, I mean, all our athletes are amazing superstars.
10:37I mean, Olympic gold medalists and, you know, just goes on.
10:42And we're also looking at the WNBA with Candice Parker as well.
10:47So it's very helpful to have athletes very involved in that particular sport.
10:53I think the benefit of having all of us as advisors is that, you know, all of
10:57these different sports teams can choose any person or fund to invest in their
11:02team, but it really comes down to relationships.
11:05And, I mean, Mike is, you know, has so many great relationships, so do I, across
11:09many different sports.
11:10And, you know, that's why we got the golf team.
11:14And, you know, those are the reasons why we're actually able to close these
11:17deals, not because we have more money.
11:19Everyone has the same amount of money.
11:20It's, you know, who do we know and how can we foster those relationships.
11:23You guys help make it smart money.
11:26Let's talk about valuations.
11:28Sports assets are really, really hot right now.
11:30It's a white hot asset class and you see both mature, you get the NBA team
11:34selling for like 10X revenue.
11:35You see some of these startup leagues also going for like 10X revenue.
11:41You know, how do you squeeze, you know, alpha out of 10X revenue investments?
11:48I know we're investing in like, what do you call it?
11:53Emerging.
11:53Emerging sports, you know, some emerging sports.
11:56And I think with that, you look at the TV revenue deals.
11:59Like SellGP, they're basically on TV for free, but they get more eyeballs than
12:04you're going to get at an NBA game.
12:06So there are eyeballs in people who watch.
12:08So once that deal, which was signed just to get the notoriety to the sport,
12:13and then that's revenue right there in itself whenever this, you know,
12:16you get the TV rights.
12:18So it's all about the TV rights deal.
12:19That's what's really carrying all of these sports.
12:21And that's what is, basically, that's what's carried the NFL.
12:24Ninety-seven of the top 100 programs of last year were all NFL games.
12:29And if you think about it, it's pretty insane because that means just a regular
12:32season game is more popular than watching an NBA final or a baseball, you know,
12:38the World Series.
12:39So, you know, sports seem to carry the mantle when it comes to profitability.
12:45And the crazy thing is, for me, it's just so much opportunity for things that...
12:51There's so many things that I've been approached with.
12:53I'm sure Lindy has.
12:54So Sonia and everyone that we've been approached with.
12:58You didn't know existed.
13:00And I think that us being able to get involved in some of these,
13:05the lower or infantile stages of it is attractive.
13:09It's fun.
13:09It's exciting.
13:10And I think that gives us a big upside.
13:12So Sonia, is that the focus?
13:14It's earlier stage or is it the whole spectrum?
13:18Well, it's...
13:19I mean, essentially, the goal is to have a portfolio of preferred equity in the major
13:28leagues and the established leagues, right?
13:31So we view that as a safe investment, obviously.
13:35And minority stakes in major leagues, established leagues.
13:40So it's not...
13:41The emerging leagues is what's going to give you huge alpha, right?
13:45I mean, women's soccer in 2021, you could buy a team for $2 million and then Ron
13:52Burkle flipped it three years or four years later for 100 million, right?
13:59And so not only are the emerging...
14:02And women's soccer is not an emerging league, but it's relatively new.
14:08It's emerging as a business.
14:09That it's taken off.
14:10Right, that it's taken off.
14:11Like we're invested in professional bull riding.
14:14I don't know how many people have actually gone to that.
14:18But that's an emerging league, right?
14:20We view sale GP as an emerging league.
14:22But like Michael said, their media rights right now, they get nothing.
14:28And the next time they negotiate media rights, I mean, this is something that
14:32has 1.2 or 1.3 million viewers.
14:36And that's roughly the same as what an NBA game gets.
14:41So we think there's going to be huge upside in that.
14:45I mean, their initial...
14:46Sales GP's initial CBS deal was $40 million with the assumption that 100,000
14:51people would watch.
14:52And we're getting about 1.2 million viewers.
14:55So it's a pretty good...
14:56The renegotiation will be more fun, right?
14:59What's the craziest emerging sports opportunity you guys have seen?
15:07Is there like a checkers league out there?
15:10I mean, rodeo is pretty crazy.
15:11Yeah, I think the TBR is the TBR.
15:14I mean, even though they've been around for 30 years, interestingly.
15:17So it is an emerging league, but it's been around for a long time.
15:22But that definitely is probably at the top of the list in terms of something
15:27that's very different, right?
15:29So...
15:30Well, it's the one that we invested in.
15:32I will not try.
15:35But if you try it, the Bulls will be the one that, you know, has the problem.
15:37Yeah, but I would say that's probably...
15:39That's one of them.
15:41And...
15:41I like how it dovetails, Michael, if this NASCAR thing works out, you're going to
15:45have a whole new life.
15:47Oh, yeah.
15:48I mean...
15:48You know, you're going to be in like Bristol, Tennessee a lot more and things
15:51like that.
15:51I'll be wherever the race is.
15:53I mean, I love NASCAR.
15:54I've always...
15:55I've been to NASCAR.
15:55I raved the flag.
15:57I've said, driver, start your engines.
15:59I've done the whole thing.
16:00I've been a fan of NASCAR for a long time.
16:02So really excited.
16:03I had a chance to meet with the potential owner of the...
16:06With the owner of the team that we're potentially going to invest in and had a
16:10great time with him.
16:10And I think there's a lot of interest on both sides.
16:13Hopefully, we'll do that soon and you'll see me out there with my cowboy hat on.
16:17In terms of, you know, we mentioned liquidity before.
16:23I mean, part of why I think what's driving sports valuations is we have a supply and
16:27demand issue and that you have a lot of people who want to get into it and there
16:33aren't that many vehicles to get into at some point that presumably will even out.
16:38But, you know, when do you see that, you know, when do you see those lines kind
16:41of starting to cross a little more?
16:44Well, right now, I mean, there's a lot of opportunity to buy minority interests as
16:49well, right?
16:49So we're not looking to go out and buy an entire baseball team in the MLB.
16:57I mean, we're going to make an investment in the MLB.
16:59And, you know, what other firms are going to do will probably be somewhat of a mix.
17:05It depends how much you want in each league.
17:10But there's so much, it's just starting.
17:14I mean, it really is.
17:15There's so many different sports.
17:17And Europe, we're also looking at Africa.
17:20I mean, there's the NBA Africa, right?
17:23There's so many different places.
17:25We're looking at a soccer team in Portugal.
17:27I mean, what's so interesting about this is it is really truly global.
17:34Yeah.
17:34Well, it's the one thing, we're living very fractured times, it's the one thing that
17:40people can talk about, one of the few things people can talk about and enjoy
17:44talking about it.
17:45And it's, again, as you guys alluded to earlier, it's one of the very, very few
17:48things in a world of completely fractured media consumption and reading habits and
17:54viewing habits that everybody has in common.
17:56On Monday, you can all talk about what you watched this weekend.
18:00Lindsey, you were, you know, one of the great individual athletes of the last,
18:05you know, 30 years.
18:07How does that, you know, kind of the skill set you had to develop as somebody who had
18:11to just be, you know, in your own head and practicing, how is that translating to this
18:15world of deal-making?
18:17I mean, I think for me, you know, I look at my brand as an athlete and I think that
18:21directly translates into business.
18:24I didn't have, you know, huge football contracts, so I had to go out and hustle
18:29for all of my endorsement deals, which is really the only way that I got paid as an
18:33athlete.
18:34You know, every World Cup win, you're making 30,000 Swiss francs before conversion
18:38rate and taxes, so it was pretty much nothing.
18:42So, you know, I'm looking at what we're doing with SELGP.
18:45You know, I'm working with them and potential sponsors to try to create deals,
18:50try to create value for our team and for the league, and that's something that I
18:55naturally have done for the last 20 years on my own.
18:58It's really the only reason why I'm sitting here is because I was able to go out there
19:02and hustle combined with a couple of wins that helped.
19:07More than a couple, but I think you bring up an excellent point, and even when you're
19:12talking about how you were taxed when you were competing, and Michael,
19:16this is the same for you.
19:17When you, you know, a very famous, very, very famous actor told me, you know,
19:23a bunch of years ago that it wasn't until he owned the shows that he was doing that
19:30he was rich.
19:31Until then, he was just well-paid.
19:34So you guys have been well-paid for your lives, but now you're owners,
19:40and presumably that's part of what's attractive, right?
19:42Now you can actually be potentially very rich because you're owning.
19:45How much did that play into kind of the decision to jump?
19:48I mean, I think for me that played a big part of this.
19:53Not only that, I wanted to work with Mark, and I'm glad that we both had the same
19:58vision of ownership and not just, you know, walk into the room,
20:02get somebody into the room, and then we sit there, shut our mouths,
20:06and then they do the deal.
20:07I mean, I always say you get into the room because of your name or your stature or
20:13what you've done in your other career, but once you're in the room,
20:15you need to show you know what you're talking about to stay in the room.
20:18And I think that's the way athletes have generally been used.
20:21Get me in the door, you move out the way, and we'll do the rest.
20:25But that's just not, I know in my DNA or Lindsey's DNA,
20:28we want to really be involved.
20:29We want to understand what we're invested in and not saying we're going to be day
20:34to day and working the deals and knowing every single thing,
20:38but we want to learn it to the point where we feel like we do.
20:41And I think that that's important to me, very important to me,
20:45to be more than just a talking head in a room but actually have some ownership.
20:49I think that brings a lot more value.
20:51Presumably, Eric.
20:52Go on, please.
20:52I just think that's a natural transition.
20:54I mean, that's like who we are.
20:55That's in our DNA, like you said.
20:56I mean, you wouldn't be as successful as you have been in your career
21:00had you not been the person that when you walk in the room,
21:03you come in the room, you learn, you work hard.
21:05Like that's what we do in this fund.
21:07You know, we earn our spot at the table.
21:10And I mean, again, like you've been someone that outside of sports
21:14has done so many incredible things by thinking outside of the box,
21:17by doing things that no one else has done.
21:19And I think that perspective helps us a lot in the way
21:23that we view what we're investing in.
21:25And if you have ownership in something, you work harder at it.
21:27That's right.
21:28And I think it's important to work hard at something
21:30because you realize the upside and the potential is better if you do.
21:34Well, if you think about it, you guys represent kind of the end of a long continuum
21:40where it used to be that you had famous athletes and if they, you know,
21:45if they wanted to monetize off the field or off the slopes,
21:48they would like, you know, they would get money to be a casino greeter
21:53or they'd open up a new car dealership.
21:55And then it became, okay, well, you know, I'll get paid,
21:58I'll get a real endorsement deal and I'll be an endorser.
22:01And then it became, right, maybe I'll own a car dealership
22:04or I'll have 10% of it but somebody will put up the money.
22:07But you guys have taken that level, that next level where you're saying,
22:09no, no, we're going to be in the inception process
22:12of actually putting the money into somebody else.
22:14And I think that's actually really, you know, we're at a cool moment for that.
22:18It's really, you know, it's really super interesting.
22:21What, you know, in terms of like all those sports assets out there,
22:26each of you, maybe I'll go around the horn.
22:28If there was one sports asset that you could have a piece of, what would it be?
22:33Maybe Sonja, we'll start with you and come right down the line.
22:35Yeah, that's interesting.
22:38I would say women's sports team, not necessarily whether it's the WNBA
22:47or NWSL, I think that it will be very exciting to be an owner
22:55of a women's sports team as an owner.
22:58So that.
22:59Is there a league that excites you more than others?
23:01I know you love all your children equally,
23:03but which one do you love the most in terms of if you could.
23:05I mean, I like basketball, but actually we've been very involved in women's soccer,
23:09which has been very interesting.
23:13So I think the more you get to know about these sports
23:16when you really delve in and you're doing the work and you meet everybody,
23:21you can't help but get excited about it.
23:25Which one would I want to?
23:26I'm pretty easy.
23:27Yeah.
23:27NFL.
23:28I mean, that's not hard to figure that one out.
23:32Get out there, get beat up a little bit.
23:33It's great to kind of be on the other side of that.
23:36Yeah, I love the NFL.
23:37Get you a chunk of the Giants.
23:38That would be, you know, that'd be a nice story.
23:40Oh, yeah, that would be something.
23:42100th anniversary of the Giants, by the way, 100 years.
23:45So to be a part of that franchise in the way that I was was amazing,
23:50but to be a part of it as an owner would be,
23:52it would trump anything I could ever imagine.
23:56I mean, I personally invested in the Utah Royals and LAFC.
24:02So, I mean, I love soccer, but I would love to invest in the WNBA.
24:07I would love, I think that's something that excites me.
24:11You know, Caitlin Clark is obviously changing the way we view the WNBA,
24:15not just her alone, but I think it's just an amazing moment for the WNBA.
24:20So I think besides my teams, our teams.
24:24Well, Caitlin Clark, it's a good point that you can see,
24:30I mean, it's not unlike the entertainment business.
24:33It's a star business.
24:35And you see Caitlin Clark, you know, a transformative athlete.
24:38Who are some other athletes that you guys look at and say,
24:42that's somebody that I would want to invest behind in terms of the catalytic
24:48kind of opportunity they provide?
24:50Everybody in our fund.
24:54You know, yeah, I mean,
24:56I think Caitlin Clark has been incredible for the game of basketball.
24:59And I see a lot of people complain about it.
25:02I'm like, what are you doing?
25:04Like, amazing player. You mean some of the people in her league?
25:07Yeah, some of the people in her league.
25:08You mean the ones who now get to fly in a private jet when they were flying commercial.
25:12And you're trying to do these hard fouls on her to hurt her.
25:15I'm like, well, what is the purpose of that?
25:17You know, you don't do that.
25:20But I think that. Those are probably not future partners in the Avenue Sports Fund.
25:24You know, the pie can get bigger, guys.
25:26Exactly. But I think everybody that we chose has been,
25:30I guess, at the top of their sport or their game.
25:33And you look at Steph, I mean, Steph changed basketball.
25:36And I think what Caitlin's going to do, and I think what Steph has done,
25:39is that they've made, you know, the way Steph Curry shoots,
25:42there's going to be a generation down the road who are going to come up,
25:45and next thing you know, they're going to be the next step.
25:47You're going to have that continuation.
25:49So he's just not going to be this one-off.
25:51And I think that people who have changed the game,
25:53I think Lindsey's changed skiing,
25:55Lauren Olympian and soccer and World Cup champion in soccer and everything else.
26:00And Candace, of course, who just retired.
26:03And now, who is on TV doing commentary on men's basketball.
26:08So I think everyone we have has kind of transcended what they've done
26:10and has been, I guess, a catalyst for another level of life.
26:14When you guys are looking for investments,
26:16we had Andres Halvorsen from Viking up in the very first panel today.
26:21And he was talking about how he's really looking,
26:23he's looking at leadership, you know, so, so much.
26:27And it's a cliche, but it's true.
26:28Are you guys, when you're looking at making some of these investments,
26:32how much are you weighing kind of the stars,
26:35the talent that you can leverage versus the intrinsic economics behind?
26:41I think it's a combination, right?
26:43I mean, obviously, the economics have to make sense.
26:47And beyond that, you really want to get along with management
26:54and have the same view in terms of where you're taking the team
27:00and really view it.
27:02We like to be majority owners in the emerging leagues,
27:06you know, the ones that we've invested in.
27:09But some of them, we're not.
27:10But we get rights as if we're a majority owner.
27:15But it's really, there has to be the same view
27:20in terms of where you're taking the team.
27:22Because otherwise, we're not just passive investors.
27:25And I think that's really the most important piece of this.
27:29And I think what's been great is we get a lot of incoming inquiries
27:35because people want to partner with us.
27:37And not only because we have a fantastic team of athletes,
27:42and, you know, Michael is humble, but Michael,
27:46we actually say Michael is the captain.
27:47I know it sounds corny, but he's the captain.
27:50He found everyone, and everyone joined because of Michael.
27:57I don't want to say that.
27:58Well, that's true.
28:00I mean, initially.
28:01No, I don't want to, you know, I don't want to say that
28:04because I will tell you this, though,
28:06when I would call everyone and tell them about Avenue
28:10and who we were doing it with, I had no, there was no,
28:15oh, let me think about it.
28:17It was like, yes, we're absolutely in.
28:19And like I said, it was just important to get the right people
28:21who had the right understanding about what we were trying to do.
28:23Yeah, absolutely.
28:24So your reputation led the way.
28:27I do think that background, there's a reason that so many financial firms
28:34like the higher athletes because, you know,
28:36there is that leadership component, and you guys are, you know,
28:40actually, I'm thinking about it, Michael.
28:41You're now in finance.
28:43How tall are you, Michael?
28:446'5".
28:46Why?
28:47I'm not the tallest person in finance.
28:49I'm looking for a guy in finance, 6'5".
28:51I saw some taller people walking in.
28:53By the way, nobody under 40 understood that joke,
28:56over 40, but there are people here who got that.
28:59Listen, you guys, by the way, we have,
29:01we're going to end this with a big announcement.
29:03So nobody leave.
29:05This is a kind of class.
29:07We do big things and big announcements.
29:08First of all, I want to give it up to Maneet,
29:11who's back for a great day.
29:13Has everyone had a good day?
29:17It's been a great, this is a great conversation,
29:23but we're going to make a big announcement in about two minutes,
29:25so nobody's allowed to leave.
29:26Always the surprises, that's what's good about a kind of class.
29:29So with like a minute and a half, two minutes left,
29:32each of you surprise us before our big surprise
29:38of where do you think the sports business,
29:40you get 30 seconds each per answer,
29:43where do you think the sports business will be in 2030
29:49that will surprise everybody?
29:51Sonia, you go first, and we'll come right down the lens.
29:54That's interesting.
29:55Well, I think that there will be a lot more firms investing in sports,
30:02and it will be viewed as an asset class,
30:07the same as other traditional asset classes.
30:11I think that it's starting to do that,
30:14but I think that more and more people will be invested in sports,
30:20hopefully through Avenue, but could be other places.
30:24Sports investing for everybody.
30:25I saw the surprise back there, it's a good surprise.
30:27I know, it's a good surprise.
30:29It's a kind of class.
30:31I didn't say it, but I think that all these sports
30:34that we call emerging sports now will no longer be emerging sports.
30:37I actually think, you know, here in New York,
30:40they just had the big cricket tournament, which was absolutely amazing.
30:43I think that cricket is a sport here,
30:45like it's in infantile stages here in this country,
30:49but it's the biggest sport in the world, the biggest following.
30:51So I just think that all these sports that we now look at
30:54in their infantile or starter stages are going to be mainstream.
31:00Absolutely. I mean, women's sports, I think,
31:01is just the beginning stages of what it will be by 2030.
31:05Hopefully, we'll be making as much money as the men by that point.
31:09Who knows? But I hope so.
31:15That's a perfect way to wrap.
31:17I'll add that I think one big surprise would be
31:19that kind of small-town soccer teams, football teams,
31:23as they call them out there, could become big businesses.
31:26Maybe we'll surprise some people with that kind of topic in about 20 seconds.
31:31But before we do that, thank you for a great panel.
31:34Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, everybody. Have a great day.