Electrify Expo Founder BJ Birtwell on the EV Learning Curve, His Ah-ha Moment, & Electrify Expo's 8 City Tour!

MotorTrend

MotorTrend's Ed oh & Jonny Lieberman chat with Electrify Expo Founder & CEO - BJ Birtwell! Want to test drive an EV? Want to learn more about EVs? The guys discuss the mission of Electrify Expo

Transcript

00:00:00Welcome to The Inevitable, a podcast by MotorTrend.

00:00:05Hi there, and welcome to another episode of The Inevitable.

00:00:18This is the MotorTrend podcast, the MotorTrend Vodcast,

00:00:21where we talk about the future of the automobile,

00:00:23the future of mobility, where we're going,

00:00:26how we're going to get there, and what sort of events

00:00:28are we going to attend to maybe help us make that decision.

00:00:31I'm Johnny Lieberman. This is Ed Lowe.

00:00:33Before we get started, Ed has a message for you.

00:00:36Hello there. The Inevitable Vodcast is brought to you

00:00:39by the all-electric Nissan Ariya,

00:00:41inspired by the future, designed for the now.

00:00:44And right now, we have a great question of the episode.

00:00:47Hold on to your butts. It's a long one.

00:00:50It's from a gentleman by the name of Sam Schulte.

00:00:52I hope I pronounced that name right.

00:00:53That's how you pronounce Schulte, yes.

00:00:55He says, question of The Inevitable,

00:00:56what are your thoughts on a Tesla for a salesman

00:00:59with a large territory? I'm based out of Michigan

00:01:02and drive approximately 40,000 miles per year.

00:01:05Oh, boy. A lot of my trips are within 200 miles round trip,

00:01:09but a good portion of my miles are very long distance.

00:01:12Today, I'll hop into my Camry and do 6 to 10 hours at a time,

00:01:164 to 6 times a month.

00:01:18I also occasionally find myself in rural areas

00:01:20where I'm concerned about the charging station availability.

00:01:23I've played with a Tesla trip planner,

00:01:24and it seems feasible.

00:01:25I've been bugging my employer for years to put me in a Tesla,

00:01:28and now it might actually happen.

00:01:29I'm getting cold feet.

00:01:31Keep in mind, they currently provide a base model Camry,

00:01:34so a Model S or X is likely out of the picture.

00:01:37So, please help me understand the Model 3 standard

00:01:40versus long-range battery types in this application.

00:01:44The Tesla trip planner leads me to believe

00:01:46the total trip time between the two would be very similar,

00:01:50but the long-range makes fewer stops but longer stops

00:01:54because you get a charged battery.

00:01:56Super, super long.

00:01:58The reason I was on my phone,

00:02:00it's not my normal habit of ignoring Ed when he speaks,

00:02:03but it was 40,000 miles a year divided by 52 weeks

00:02:06is 770 miles a week,

00:02:10and then if you divide that by, like, five working days,

00:02:12it's 153 miles a day.

00:02:15You go first because I did some research.

00:02:18Yeah.

00:02:19I mean, you could do it, sir, Mr. Schulte.

00:02:22It could be done.

00:02:24I'd say it'll be 90% the same,

00:02:27and it'll be 10% of the time when it's painful,

00:02:30when you have to go somewhere

00:02:32where maybe the charging station's down or something like that,

00:02:35but Tesla does a pretty good job of putting chargers everywhere,

00:02:42and, you know, if you're doing 150 miles a day,

00:02:45you can do that on one charge if you're charging at home.

00:02:48So it's possible.

00:02:50It will not be as easy as a gas vehicle,

00:02:53but I'd say 90% of the time it will be.

00:02:55Okay, so that's Johnny's take.

00:02:57He's a Rivian owner.

00:02:59He does a fair amount of road tripping.

00:03:01I don't think he puts it on 40,000 miles a year.

00:03:03Well, I do, but not in my car.

00:03:05I don't do anything of the sort.

00:03:07I have a very short commute.

00:03:08I drive an F-150 Lightning.

00:03:10Like, I'm the worst in terms of I just drive it home and back

00:03:12and to my kid's daycare.

00:03:14You're the worst.

00:03:15So I asked three, not one, not two,

00:03:18but three different experts to weigh in.

00:03:20One, Eric Tingwall, Motortrend's testing director,

00:03:23lives in Michigan, close to Ann Arbor.

00:03:26And grunts a lot.

00:03:27Grunts a lot.

00:03:28Experienced testing all of our vehicles.

00:03:30He essentially says, I don't think it's a good idea.

00:03:33He's like, I don't know enough about this question,

00:03:36even though it's about how long it is,

00:03:38but if he's driving that kind of distance and it's rural,

00:03:42where chargers are fewer and farther between.

00:03:45Michigan's infrastructure for Tesla superchargers is pretty good,

00:03:48but mostly in the urban areas and in the suburbs.

00:03:50So, you know, further south around Detroit, not so bad.

00:03:53But going up north, you're going to have a problem.

00:03:55Eric also said 6 to 10 hours could become 6 to 12 hours

00:04:00if you include charge time and detouring out of the way

00:04:03to find a charger.

00:04:04So if that sounds like something you don't want to do,

00:04:06consider that.

00:04:07So ultimately he says, I don't think there really is an upside,

00:04:10unless, and he posits, you might be interested in driving

00:04:13one of these Model 3s for full self-driving,

00:04:16which would take away a lot of the long, highway, boring miles.

00:04:19But it's also a premium that your employer would have to pay for.

00:04:22So, I don't know.

00:04:23Well, actually, I mean, how much is a Model 3 these days?

00:04:26I mean, they've really gotten cheap.

00:04:28True.

00:04:29Buy used and then do the over-the-air upgrade for...

00:04:32But you're also doing the right thing.

00:04:34Okay.

00:04:35Didn't he mention cold?

00:04:37No, no, no.

00:04:38That's my other buddy.

00:04:39So, then I talked to my other buddy, Rob,

00:04:41personal friend of mine, grew up, my childhood friend,

00:04:43who lives in Ohio, has been there for many years,

00:04:45and he was, like, one of the first guys in Ohio

00:04:47to own not one, but two Tesla Model Ss.

00:04:51And he's also like, yeah, I don't know.

00:04:53You'd be okay, this is my buddy Rob speaking,

00:04:55you'd be okay with the long-range Model 3

00:04:57at 341 miles of range.

00:04:59Rear-wheel drive standard range, not a good idea at 272.

00:05:02His concern, the winter.

00:05:04Range is lower, and you're using the heater,

00:05:07the seat warmers, et cetera.

00:05:09You'd also probably want all-wheel drive

00:05:11because it's safer for slippery surfaces.

00:05:13And that shortens your range.

00:05:14And that's also going to eat into your range.

00:05:16Tesla's great, but there is a bit of a headache

00:05:19finding a supercharger, you know,

00:05:21out of the way of rural places.

00:05:23You'd have to divert, making a longer trip than necessary.

00:05:27It could be frustrating.

00:05:29He had some actionable advice.

00:05:31The best was find a Tesla owner's group in your area

00:05:34and look for insights there.

00:05:36He says the one in Ohio is great and is very helpful.

00:05:38So that's a great answer.

00:05:40And the last guy, and probably the best guy,

00:05:42most qualified to answer this, an actual Model 3 owner

00:05:45who's done a ton of road tripping.

00:05:47He's a little more than that, but go ahead.

00:05:49Kyle Connor, we had him as a guest for a special double episode.

00:05:52Mr. Out-of-Spec.

00:05:53Mr. Out-of-Spec.

00:05:54Kyle was nice enough to read your text,

00:05:56read your DM and reply, and he said,

00:05:59with a CCS adapter and Tesla,

00:06:01you can pretty much get anywhere.

00:06:03You just have to keep an eye on the PlugShare app

00:06:05to see where the chargers are.

00:06:07But he says, I'd say it's no problem,

00:06:09but if he's worried, buy the car that makes you the most comfortable.

00:06:13And I would say, you know, if you can get your employer to swing it,

00:06:16get one of them Lucid Grand Touring suckers.

00:06:20516 miles of range.

00:06:22Who cares?

00:06:23Yeah, get the $100,000 EV.

00:06:24Don't charge.

00:06:25Oh, it's a lot more than that for a Grand Touring.

00:06:27But no charging.

00:06:28You never have to charge.

00:06:30Once a week, if you're doing 770 miles a week

00:06:33and it goes 516 miles, golden.

00:06:36Golden, man.

00:06:37You're good to go.

00:06:38So I think we solved that one.

00:06:39Bottom line, Sam Schulte, thank you so much for your question.

00:06:42I think there's an answer in there somewhere.

00:06:44Bottom line is, yeah, you could do it.

00:06:46It just might add some time to your day,

00:06:48and then you've got to worry about the winner a little bit.

00:06:50So thank you so much.

00:06:51Swag is on the way.

00:06:53Nice.

00:06:54And if you have a question, please shoot us a DM,

00:06:56put us in the comments.

00:06:57Hats that look like this.

00:06:58Leave it in a review.

00:06:59Give us five stars and ask a question.

00:07:02But send us your questions, and we'll answer them on air.

00:07:04But let's talk about...

00:07:05This week's guest.

00:07:06This week's guest, which is another real-world situation.

00:07:09Say you are an EV skeptic, and you want to buy,

00:07:13maybe consider buying an EV.

00:07:14Where would you go?

00:07:15Or, you know, you can't trust those hacks at Motor Trend.

00:07:18They don't know what they're talking about.

00:07:20You've got to decide for yourself.

00:07:21You want to see for yourself what's up with these gosh-darn EVs

00:07:24that they keep ramming down my throat.

00:07:26Drive them all.

00:07:27Where could you go?

00:07:28Possibly go.

00:07:29Yes.

00:07:30You can go to an event called Electrify Expo,

00:07:32which we'll tell you all about,

00:07:34because we have the founder and CEO, BJ Burwell,

00:07:37coming on in just a moment.

00:07:39BJ is a longtime friend of mine.

00:07:41I've known him for about 24 years or so.

00:07:44We both got started in the aftermarket.

00:07:46He was leading the charge in youth marketing

00:07:49for the car care company, Meguiar's,

00:07:51and he went on to do a bunch of other things,

00:07:54youth marketing for Mopar,

00:07:57supporting drifting and drag racing.

00:07:59He worked at Dubb Magazine.

00:08:01SEMA.

00:08:02He worked at SEMA.

00:08:03He was a board member at SEMA.

00:08:05Done a bunch of stuff.

00:08:06He ran the Torque off-road racing series before selling it.

00:08:10Super successful guy.

00:08:11Very sharp marketer.

00:08:13Very sharp businessman and entrepreneur.

00:08:16And now he's actually kind of an EV convert

00:08:19who's running the first, I think,

00:08:23and largest consumer-facing electric vehicle expo,

00:08:27and we're going to talk to him next.

00:08:30BJ, thank you for coming in.

00:08:32Great to be here.

00:08:33Thank you so much.

00:08:34Head low in the flesh.

00:08:35No.

00:08:36And congrats on Electrify Expo.

00:08:38Say my name real loud again.

00:08:40Congrats on Electrify Expo,

00:08:43which is this amazing consumer-facing electric vehicle show

00:08:49that you've been now running for how many years?

00:08:52Well, really, if you look at it,

00:08:54our first show was less than three years ago,

00:08:56which is crazy to imagine because we're such a young company

00:08:59but come so far in less than three years.

00:09:01And the first one, was it in Austin?

00:09:03No.

00:09:04The first one was in Orange County in a grass field

00:09:06in September of 2021.

00:09:08Okay.

00:09:09Mm-hmm.

00:09:10Yep.

00:09:11Coming out of COVID, really.

00:09:12Great timing.

00:09:13That was perfect.

00:09:14And it was one...

00:09:16How many shows the first year?

00:09:18Three.

00:09:19Three.

00:09:20Yeah, we did three.

00:09:21We did Orange County, and then we did Miami and Austin.

00:09:24Okay.

00:09:25Did I go to Austin?

00:09:26Is that where I spoke?

00:09:27Probably.

00:09:28I think I did the closing.

00:09:29That was the very first one.

00:09:30Okay, yeah.

00:09:31I did the closing remarks in Austin, which was wild.

00:09:33It was big.

00:09:34It was at Circuit of the Americas in the parking lot.

00:09:36Well, it was big, but it was in the bar.

00:09:38I mean, Industry Day was in a bar,

00:09:40and that's where it was in Kodak.

00:09:42I mean, it probably sat 50 people.

00:09:44Yeah, I mean, it was very...

00:09:48You're modest.

00:09:49It was very professionally done.

00:09:50It was very well executed.

00:09:51And just the fact that you had an Industry Day in year one,

00:09:54I think, speaks volumes about your planning around all of this.

00:09:59But for those who don't know, it's electrifyexpo.com, right?

00:10:03Yep.

00:10:04Electrifyexpo.com, yeah.

00:10:05Electrifyexpo.com.

00:10:06And now, this year, the show is how many cities?

00:10:09Well, we're an eight-stop festival.

00:10:11We're a million square feet everywhere we go.

00:10:13It kind of gives you an idea of scope and scale

00:10:15and the size of the event and where it's come from.

00:10:17I mean, pretty much every leading manufacturer is now at Electrify Expo.

00:10:21It doesn't matter if it's on four wheels or two wheels or on water.

00:10:24Right.

00:10:25So it's been kind of a surreal thing as a car guy

00:10:28coming and looking at this festival,

00:10:29because I don't come from, like, Pacific Northwest

00:10:32and was an environmentalist, and I'm not an early tech adopter.

00:10:37I'm a car guy.

00:10:38Yep.

00:10:39We're going to talk about that, how wild it is.

00:10:41Could you describe, like, okay, so I show up,

00:10:43I hear about it, I get a ticket, I go.

00:10:46What am I seeing in a million square feet?

00:10:48Because that sounds pretty daunting.

00:10:49It's fun.

00:10:51It's almost, if you can imagine a South by meeting a CES,

00:10:55it's kind of like that, except everything is outdoors

00:10:57and it's a festival environment.

00:10:59So one of the reasons why we do this all outside

00:11:02is because we do try to create a festival vibe,

00:11:05and you can't create that inside the box walls of a convention center.

00:11:08It's just too stuffy and too stale.

00:11:11You come into Electrify Expo, and you hear the music.

00:11:14There's experiences everywhere.

00:11:16So you walk into a million square feet,

00:11:18and there's just activity all over.

00:11:20So it doesn't matter if it's cars or it's bikes or scooters or skateboards

00:11:24or high-speed bikes or motorcycles or it's on dirt or pavement.

00:11:28I mean, there's everything for you to experience,

00:11:30and that's the whole point is that I was an EV skeptic,

00:11:33and it wasn't until I actually got behind the wheel of an EV

00:11:36where I had my light bulb moment,

00:11:38and that's what I wanted to do with Electrify Expo

00:11:40was just give everybody their light bulb moment through experiences.

00:11:43And the point is, I mean, it's actually funny.

00:11:46You could do this theoretically inside because EVs don't emit anything,

00:11:50but the point of getting, I'm sure it's a lot cheaper to do it outside

00:11:54and also more welcoming, when you go to Electrify Expo,

00:11:57there's EVs, there's ride-and-drives everywhere,

00:12:01all these manufacturers.

00:12:03And tip of the cap to you, the biggest one,

00:12:05I think the biggest news that I heard was you guys landed,

00:12:08I mean, Tesla's doing ride-and-drives at your event, right?

00:12:10Yeah, we were the first tour that Tesla signed on to.

00:12:14I mean, Tesla's known to not do...

00:12:16Not advertise, not do ride-and-drives, not do anything.

00:12:19Yeah, they have their fan base,

00:12:21who's a great marketing mechanism for them,

00:12:24but obviously the industry's become much more competitive than five years ago.

00:12:28So they came in, they signed on for the entire tour last year,

00:12:31they're back this year for the entire tour,

00:12:33so they're loving what they see.

00:12:34Who are you signing with?

00:12:35They don't even have people that can do something.

00:12:38I know, it's not the VP of marketing we're doing to deal with, right?

00:12:41There is no VP of marketing.

00:12:42There isn't, no.

00:12:43Who do you...?

00:12:44Like an engineer?

00:12:45Are they still there?

00:12:46Yeah, well, were they fired?

00:12:49Yeah, those people are still there.

00:12:51In fact, they told me in Orlando, which is our first show we had this year,

00:12:55that they sell more cars at our event per day

00:12:58than they would do at any other auto show that they would ever do.

00:13:01So they've really kind of hunkered down on Electrify Expo,

00:13:04making it a key point of their butts-in-seat strategy.

00:13:08What was a tipping point, do you think, for them?

00:13:11Like prior to them signing two years ago,

00:13:14who had you...?

00:13:15You had Lucid already, right?

00:13:17Or Rivian?

00:13:18Yeah, we had BMW and Toyota and Lexus and Volvo and Kia and Hyundai

00:13:24and other manufacturers.

00:13:26They were kind of the giant that everybody was asking for

00:13:31and scratching their heads,

00:13:32why isn't Tesla here?

00:13:33And the average consumer doesn't put that together,

00:13:36hey, they don't have a marketing budget.

00:13:38No, of course not.

00:13:39Yeah, of course not.

00:13:40But everybody else does.

00:13:41The industry does.

00:13:42And so it wasn't until Tesla came on board

00:13:44where then some of the other auto manufacturers

00:13:47and some of the other brands that we had been ghosted by

00:13:49started to kind of call us back.

00:13:51Oh, interesting.

00:13:52So you had the big dogs first.

00:13:53Some of them.

00:13:54By big dogs, I mean the big traditional legacy gas.

00:13:58Some.

00:13:59Ford.

00:14:00Yeah.

00:14:02So who ghosted you and came back?

00:14:04Just kidding, you don't have to answer that.

00:14:06But that's interesting.

00:14:07Yeah, well, that strategy has worked for me

00:14:13and for other companies that I've worked at

00:14:15where it's like you land somebody big

00:14:19and the reciprocating effect of that is others follow.

00:14:24But it also just goes to show that Tesla is still

00:14:26the 900-pound gorilla in the EV space.

00:14:28There's just no one.

00:14:29They're just almost synonymous.

00:14:31EV stocks, if Tesla has a bad day,

00:14:35despite what the other companies are doing,

00:14:37Lucid and Rivian crash along with Tesla

00:14:39and rise with Tesla.

00:14:40Did you go and show them,

00:14:43like, look at all the consumer show feedback.

00:14:49They all want you to come.

00:14:50Or how did you invite a rep to the show

00:14:53and say, hey, look at all these people?

00:14:54Oh, man, sales is so much about grit, isn't it?

00:14:57I mean, just like straight up grit.

00:14:59So we went to Tesla for two and a half years.

00:15:04So going back to Electrify Expo and the origin of it,

00:15:06I created the brand in 2019,

00:15:08but we didn't launch our first event until 2021.

00:15:11We just spent the entire first year and a half

00:15:13just kind of developing our brand and our identity

00:15:17and our go-to-market and tightening up our IP

00:15:20and all that, right?

00:15:21And then we finally got to 2021.

00:15:23We had our first event.

00:15:24Trust me, before we launched our first event,

00:15:26we were cold calling, cold emailing Tesla.

00:15:30So, I mean, if you look through our CRM,

00:15:32there's probably 100 people from Tesla

00:15:34that we've done outreach to,

00:15:35and nobody ever responded to us.

00:15:37Nobody, not once.

00:15:38Not one email.

00:15:39Yeah, that sounds like when we deal with them.

00:15:40Yeah, yeah.

00:15:41Not one email.

00:15:42And it wasn't...

00:15:43Solid OPSEC for Tesla.

00:15:45So the mandate is don't answer inbound emails.

00:15:49Mission accomplished.

00:15:50Okay.

00:15:51Well, it's either that or maybe, you know,

00:15:53our emails were falling on into departments

00:15:55that, you know, weren't able to answer us

00:15:58or they didn't know who to go to for the answers.

00:16:01So the weird kind of turn to this is that

00:16:05it happened very organically.

00:16:07It wasn't about, you know, this outreach.

00:16:11LinkedIn, there was a guy who worked at Tesla on LinkedIn

00:16:15who loved what he was seeing,

00:16:17and he organically reached out to me on LinkedIn.

00:16:21And then he was the champion inside the company

00:16:23to route this all the way up to the top to get approval.

00:16:26Interesting.

00:16:27So we have some real breaking news.

00:16:28I mean, LinkedIn's good for something.

00:16:30Oh, come on.

00:16:31Yeah, that's actually...

00:16:32Okay.

00:16:33Sorry, sorry.

00:16:34Had to go there.

00:16:35So 2021, first year of the show,

00:16:39three stops on the tour.

00:16:45What were some of the aha,

00:16:48like maybe you thought it was going to go this way,

00:16:51but nope, big surprise.

00:16:53This happened.

00:16:54Anything from a consumer response?

00:16:56Like, were you expecting...

00:16:58I don't know.

00:16:59What were you expecting when people showed up?

00:17:01Well, things are a lot different today

00:17:02than they were in 2021.

00:17:03Just the consumer is different.

00:17:05But, you know, the consumers that were pouring

00:17:07into the expo in 21 were EV advocates.

00:17:10Okay.

00:17:11Today they're not.

00:17:12Oh, interesting.

00:17:13No, they're not EV advocates.

00:17:14They're EV skeptics.

00:17:15They're EV skeptics and they're people who are E-curious.

00:17:20I like that.

00:17:21I like that.

00:17:22Wait, wait, wait, wait.

00:17:23Hey, this is a family-friendly show.

00:17:24Why would skeptics show up at all?

00:17:27Because I think...

00:17:28They just want to experience how bad it is.

00:17:31How bad what is?

00:17:32I just, I do always go back.

00:17:34I was talking to someone the other day,

00:17:36like when we, back in 2011,

00:17:39named the Chevy Volt our car of the year.

00:17:43Certain portion of the media was very against us.

00:17:46In fact, Rush Limbaugh condemned us on his radio show

00:17:49and our phones were like ringing off the hook

00:17:51with people calling and threatening us.

00:17:53And I remember watching Neil Cavuto on Fox News

00:17:56was interviewing a Volt owner.

00:17:58And the Volt owner was like,

00:17:59yeah, it goes 40 miles electric

00:18:01and then the gas engine kicks on

00:18:03and it drives like a normal car.

00:18:04And Cavuto was like, he wasn't prepared.

00:18:06He was just like, he's like, yeah, but can you fit in it?

00:18:09The guy's like, yes, I fit in it.

00:18:12It's like, so I'm just wondering what skeptics are,

00:18:15like, what are they, like, why are they showing up?

00:18:17Well, I think we got to address what's happening

00:18:19really in the industry and also in politics.

00:18:22Let's do it.

00:18:23We're here for it.

00:18:24So early stages, gosh, it's not even early stages,

00:18:28but for somebody like me,

00:18:29who's kind of new to the EV industry,

00:18:30early stages for me in 19, 20, 21,

00:18:33the people who were interested in coming to an Electrify Expo

00:18:35were people who already had a bent

00:18:37to be interested in Electrify Expo

00:18:38or into electric vehicles.

00:18:40Yeah, so it's like a Comic-Con.

00:18:41Yeah, exactly, like EV advocates.

00:18:43Go party with other like-minded individuals.

00:18:45For sure.

00:18:46And we saw that in 21.

00:18:48And then as we got into 2022,

00:18:51we saw that plus kind of people who were early tech adopters

00:18:56and that type of crowd.

00:18:58And then in 23, things started to change

00:19:00because those consumers had pretty much

00:19:02already made up their mind to go electric at some point,

00:19:04whether it's fully electric or plug-in hybrid.

00:19:07And we started to see this more general mainstream American

00:19:10come in and say,

00:19:11what's this whole electric thing about?

00:19:13It seems like this is the direction the industry is going,

00:19:15whether I like it or not.

00:19:16So I want to come check it out.

00:19:18Fair, totally fair.

00:19:19And see what it's all about

00:19:20and whether or not it's a fit for me.

00:19:21Because fully electric vehicles

00:19:23may not be a fit for everybody, right?

00:19:25Plug-ins might be a better fit for people.

00:19:28And in some cases,

00:19:33consumers may not be ready at all for electric vehicles.

00:19:36Let's just call it what it is, right?

00:19:38And we can talk about those different scenarios

00:19:40because they're real and they exist.

00:19:42So as we've gone through 23 and now into 24,

00:19:45you're just seeing a lot more of general mainstream Americans

00:19:48coming to check out this whole electric thing.

00:19:49And there's really no better place to do it,

00:19:51I think, in my mind,

00:19:52because we're providing the experiences

00:19:54that people actually need to really get it.

00:19:58Auto shows are starting to try to do some of this stuff.

00:20:02But the problem is that they're not real-world experiences

00:20:06when you're maneuvering through concrete pillars

00:20:09in the basement of a convention center.

00:20:11Social media has sort of replaced

00:20:13the experience of going to an auto show.

00:20:15You can just sit and look at your phone

00:20:16and see every car that's at the auto show,

00:20:18but you don't get to experience it.

00:20:19Vijay's also talking about the basement

00:20:21of the Javits Center in New York,

00:20:22where, again, EVs don't emit anything,

00:20:24so you can run them downstairs.

00:20:25Yeah, but you're going at 2 miles an hour, 100 rules.

00:20:27Exactly, that's kind of what...

00:20:29Or you're going really fast in a very, very short distance.

00:20:32And it's just not a good experience.

00:20:34Well, that doesn't teach you anything.

00:20:35Well, it's actually the opposite.

00:20:36So what's happening is people are coming out

00:20:37of those experiences and having a junkie experience

00:20:40and then going back to their social circles

00:20:42and their families and saying,

00:20:43hey, I tried the electric thing, it wasn't for me.

00:20:45And that's because the experience sucked.

00:20:47So how does it manifest?

00:20:48How do you tell that your audience has shifted

00:20:51from the early advocate to the skeptic?

00:20:54What does it show up to you,

00:20:57the founder, the guy who's running it?

00:20:59Is it in the feedback from the show,

00:21:01or you guys do surveys, or you just talk to people

00:21:03and they're like, yeah, I mean, I kind of like the cars,

00:21:06but it's not for me.

00:21:07So what does that look like,

00:21:08if you're saying that these guys are skeptics?

00:21:10Yeah, I feel like I'm kind of the man on the street

00:21:14and in the trenches,

00:21:15like the human version of Consumer Reports

00:21:18when it comes to electric vehicles,

00:21:19because I talk to hundreds and thousands of consumers

00:21:22every year about EVs, right?

00:21:23So I hear the questions that they're asking.

00:21:25And so the questions that they're asking back in 21

00:21:28are very, very different

00:21:29than the questions they're asking in 24.

00:21:30Give us an example.

00:21:31What's a 21 question versus a 24?

00:21:33A 21 question would be,

00:21:34how many kilowatts per hour is this vehicle?

00:21:36And then the question today is,

00:21:41does this vehicle go longer on electric than 40 miles?

00:21:45Right.

00:21:46Because they're still operating

00:21:47off of information that's four years ago.

00:21:48Sure, sure.

00:21:49So the people who came in 21,

00:21:51they knew how to talk shop.

00:21:53And then in 24,

00:21:54it's like these are brand new people who are new to the-

00:21:57Right.

00:21:58So they just, yeah.

00:21:59And we've seen that.

00:22:00I mean, I remember, again,

00:22:02just going back in time

00:22:03when we used to talk to Tesla all the time,

00:22:06their engineers especially,

00:22:07and we're talking about the behavior

00:22:10of early Model S adopters, right?

00:22:12So they'd get the cars

00:22:13and they'd drive from a charger to a charger

00:22:16as if it wasn't plugged in at all times,

00:22:18the car would evaporate.

00:22:19And then that's the first week.

00:22:20And then the second week,

00:22:21they would charge it every single night,

00:22:23100% every single night.

00:22:24And they'd only use like 9% or whatever.

00:22:27And then by the third week,

00:22:29they plug it in when it needed to be charged.

00:22:31But it's this learning curve

00:22:32that you kind of have to experience to know, right?

00:22:36It's just, you know,

00:22:37everyone kind of intuitively knows how gas vehicles work

00:22:40because you've been living with them your entire life,

00:22:42but this is brand new, so.

00:22:44Yeah, that nails it.

00:22:45And because it's a new technology,

00:22:47you need to experience it in order to get it.

00:22:49You can't watch a TV ad or read a print ad

00:22:52or read a social media post to really understand it.

00:22:55If you own an electric car,

00:22:56you know that because your behavior,

00:22:59how you drive does have to change.

00:23:01And the way you think about fueling up has to change.

00:23:03But the mechanism-

00:23:04Yeah, no, think about it.

00:23:05You're doing it at home.

00:23:06No, just kidding, just kidding.

00:23:07Well, for some people.

00:23:08Yeah, I know, I know.

00:23:09Yeah, no, but it's one of these wonky conversations

00:23:13because if you just think about it,

00:23:15in my mind, the vehicle is the same.

00:23:18The fuel type has changed.

00:23:19Yeah.

00:23:21That's all it is.

00:23:22No, look, I just have, I think I have PTSD for a while,

00:23:26but I have an endless conversation with people

00:23:30about how EVs won't work for them.

00:23:32And I had one other day where the guy goes,

00:23:34I only have access to electricity five days a week.

00:23:36And I said, well, that's probably not for you, sir.

00:23:39You know, like, it's just, okay.

00:23:41So are there, okay, eight city tour this year.

00:23:45You've done Orlando, at this time we're recording,

00:23:47you've done Orlando, Phoenix, Long Beach is why you're in town.

00:23:50Yeah, this is about to be our biggest event on record.

00:23:52You're here for Long Beach, then you go to Denver,

00:23:54San Francisco, Seattle, New York, and Austin.

00:23:57That's eight cities this year.

00:23:58Is that the most?

00:23:59Yeah, that's the most we've done.

00:24:01Okay.

00:24:02Any city that, have you dropped any city?

00:24:05Did you do something last year you aren't going back to?

00:24:07Or is it always the same?

00:24:08We dropped DC.

00:24:09Okay.

00:24:10But, you know, it's not so much of a drop

00:24:12as we just rotate in new markets.

00:24:13Okay.

00:24:14So that's what we'll do next year.

00:24:16We'll drop a couple markets and rotate some new ones in.

00:24:18Is there a regional, is there a city or regional difference

00:24:22in the audience?

00:24:23Like, is California, you know, we've been doing EVs

00:24:25longer than most.

00:24:26Are we, like, better, more educated, or dumber?

00:24:30Like, you've been in Austin now all three years, right?

00:24:33And that's a fairly hip tech savvy audience, right?

00:24:37Or any big, like, boy, those guys in New York,

00:24:41they got no idea what's going on.

00:24:43Like, is it anything like that?

00:24:44No, I mean, I feel like we fill our shows

00:24:47full of enough people, or I don't really know

00:24:49if I feel that reaction.

00:24:50I mean, obviously, our California shows

00:24:52are bigger shows, and it's a more mature market.

00:24:54You know, California has adopted EVs

00:24:56at a more rapid rate than other places.

00:24:58So, no, I don't see it.

00:25:02Okay.

00:25:03And then, it's not just cars.

00:25:06You got the e-bikes, you got the scooters.

00:25:09Motorcycles.

00:25:10Motorcycles.

00:25:11You said boat?

00:25:12Watercraft.

00:25:13Watercraft.

00:25:14Electric boats, electric personal watercraft.

00:25:16You got RVs, too, right?

00:25:17We have RVs and trailers, yeah.

00:25:19RVs are super hot.

00:25:20Like, anything RV is actually really hot

00:25:22on a motor trip for some reason.

00:25:23Side by side.

00:25:24Okay.

00:25:25Leaf blowers?

00:25:26Yep, they're there, I'm sure.

00:25:27Are you doing, like, lawnmowers?

00:25:29Yeah, that's a whole part of our festival.

00:25:31It's been growing a lot.

00:25:32If I wasn't so lazy, I would be working to ban,

00:25:34you know, on Saturday, no, gasoline-powered

00:25:37leaf blowers in favor of electric ones.

00:25:39You want the autonomous electric lawnmower.

00:25:41That's what you want.

00:25:42I don't know about that.

00:25:43Just the noise of, like, you know, everyone

00:25:45in LA has gardeners and just, like, multiple

00:25:47leaf blowers going off Saturday at 8 a.m.

00:25:49should be outlawed.

00:25:50Yeah.

00:25:51That's all.

00:25:52First world problems, people.

00:25:53First world problems.

00:25:54We're here to solve them.

00:25:55Actually, selfish question, because I'm in

00:25:57the market right now, and you can't answer

00:25:59because you already have one.

00:26:00Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:26:01Who makes the best e-bike?

00:26:02Who should I look at?

00:26:03My company's out of business.

00:26:05Okay, I live in the South Bay of LA.

00:26:08Rad Power.

00:26:09Everybody's got a Rad Power bike.

00:26:11That's a good choice.

00:26:12I don't want to be like everybody else.

00:26:14Electric, avatar.

00:26:15Can you say as the head of the expo?

00:26:17No, I'm renting it.

00:26:18Exactly, yeah.

00:26:19But it's going to depend on the type of bike

00:26:21you want.

00:26:22I mean, just like cars, there's different

00:26:24types of bikes.

00:26:25So, you know, Rad Power is a huge name.

00:26:27I know.

00:26:28I want to carry my kid down to the beach.

00:26:30I got to climb a hill to come back up and

00:26:32occasionally carry a surfboard, but I don't

00:26:34got a lot of room in the garage, so I don't

00:26:36want the stupid.

00:26:37The Rad Wagon is awesome, but it's also, like,

00:26:3911 feet long.

00:26:40It's as long as a car.

00:26:41It's not that long.

00:26:42But any other brands I should consider?

00:26:44Well, I mean, Rad Power is a great one.

00:26:46I would definitely consider that.

00:26:47It just depends on the type of bike you want.

00:26:49You know, have you seen those really compact

00:26:51bikes?

00:26:52Yes.

00:26:53They can fold and go into an overhead

00:26:54compartment.

00:26:55They got the little tiny wheels that are

00:26:56terrible riding.

00:26:57No, no, no, not this one.

00:26:58No, no, no, no.

00:26:59No, no.

00:27:00I know what you're talking about.

00:27:01Yes.

00:27:02Yeah, I couldn't get on that either, but

00:27:03personally.

00:27:04But, no, there's other compact bikes that

00:27:06are very cool and have, you know, normal

00:27:08wheels that fold up and go right into.

00:27:10You got a brand?

00:27:11Well, Jackrabbit's one.

00:27:12Oh, okay.

00:27:13Have you ever heard of that?

00:27:14Yes.

00:27:15No pedals in that one, though.

00:27:16No.

00:27:17No pedals.

00:27:18Yeah.

00:27:19I thought there's a rule, like, on the

00:27:20Strand.

00:27:21Technically, you're supposed to have a

00:27:22motorcycle license is the big rule.

00:27:23Well, the big rule on.

00:27:24If it doesn't have pedals.

00:27:25Yeah, technically.

00:27:26But nobody.

00:27:27On a lot of the boardwalk bike lanes in

00:27:29California, you have to be pedaling.

00:27:31If you ain't got pedals, get off.

00:27:33It's so weird because, like, if you can go

00:27:36five miles an hour, what's the difference?

00:27:38You know what I mean?

00:27:39If you're going boardwalk speed, you're not

00:27:41making any noise.

00:27:42Well, that's the thing.

00:27:43It's a weird law.

00:27:44They're trying to make sure you're not on

00:27:45the ripping.

00:27:46Because all these kids are ripping down the

00:27:47boardwalk.

00:27:48Okay, but what if you're not ripping?

00:27:49Yeah.

00:27:50I don't know.

00:27:51It's a weird rule.

00:27:52It is a weird rule.

00:27:53I go on the L.A.

00:27:54River.

00:27:55There's a bike walkway thing, and I have a

00:27:57motorcycle, essentially.

00:27:58But I can go at walking speed on it, and

00:28:01no one cares, and it's fine.

00:28:04So, for most of these vehicles, e-bikes,

00:28:07scooters, you can demo on site, right?

00:28:11Yeah.

00:28:12I mean, the exhibitors' booths are literally

00:28:14on the demo courses.

00:28:15So, you approach their display from the

00:28:17front.

00:28:18You look to see what kind of bike you want

00:28:20to jump on, and then literally behind the

00:28:22booth is the load-in lane for the demo course.

00:28:24Sign your life away.

00:28:25You sign.

00:28:26You sign.

00:28:27You get geared up, and then you hop on the

00:28:28bike, and you can take a hot lap.

00:28:30Is there a master waiver at the start,

00:28:33covering everybody, or each individual

00:28:35exhibitor they have to sign?

00:28:36There is.

00:28:37We have a master liability waiver that

00:28:39everybody signs when they enter the box

00:28:41office, and then they'll sign each individual

00:28:44exhibitor's liability waiver.

00:28:45Double indemnity.

00:28:46Smart man.

00:28:47Well, actually, Tinkle statute, none of

00:28:49those are worth the paper they're written

00:28:50on, but go ahead.

00:28:51That's fine.

00:28:52Keep signing.

00:28:53You can't obviously...

00:28:54Wife's an attorney.

00:28:56What's the weirdest thing you can try at

00:29:00an electronics booth?

00:29:01You don't have a pool.

00:29:02Can you do any of the water stuff?

00:29:04Some of the events do have water experiences,

00:29:07yeah.

00:29:08Oh, no kidding.

00:29:09So Miami's had water experiences.

00:29:10We've had electric personal watercraft out

00:29:12there.

00:29:13In San Francisco, we're on water, so

00:29:16there'll be electric boat manufacturers

00:29:18out there docking their stuff, and you can

00:29:20take demo rides on their boats.

00:29:22Oh, no kidding.

00:29:23Cool.

00:29:24Oh, that's awesome.

00:29:25It sounds like this is a good way for OEM

00:29:28manufacturers to sell stuff.

00:29:29Have they approached you like, hey, do a

00:29:31non-electrify expo?

00:29:32Well, that was my idea.

00:29:33Do a car show.

00:29:34Do a car show where you can just drive

00:29:36everything.

00:29:37I feel like that must exist somewhere.

00:29:39This is not a novel idea.

00:29:41It kind of is.

00:29:42It doesn't, because car shows are static

00:29:44events.

00:29:45I mean, stuff like Pebble Beach and

00:29:47Amelia Island.

00:29:48I think the Overland Expos are probably

00:29:50pretty close to that.

00:29:51Overland Expos.

00:29:52Do they have experiences?

00:29:53Yeah.

00:29:54You can't now.

00:29:55The liability is crazier with those guys,

00:29:57because you don't want to give somebody

00:29:59some rooster tail dirt bike to go ripping

00:30:01down the road.

00:30:02But you can try a lot of that.

00:30:04I think the stuff on the cars, you can

00:30:06climb into the tens.

00:30:07I know like two, three years ago,

00:30:09Rivian, they had demo drives, and people

00:30:11were buying them at the Overland Expos.

00:30:13Yeah.

00:30:14Okay.

00:30:15Well, that's the world we're about to

00:30:17step into, right, is basically DTC for

00:30:19car purchases, which is crazy to think

00:30:21about.

00:30:22But, you know, we have Amazon.

00:30:24It's been happening.

00:30:25I mean, you know, like Tesla's been doing

00:30:27it, Volvo, Rivian.

00:30:28True.

00:30:29There's lots, you know, Lucid.

00:30:30But you're saying Amazon is...

00:30:31Well, Amazon's a sponsor now of

00:30:33Electrify Expo, so...

00:30:34Amazon's taking over.

00:30:35And growing their presence with us next

00:30:37year.

00:30:38And, you know, the buzz around Amazon

00:30:40right now is, you know, auto manufacturers

00:30:43signing on with Amazon to develop a

00:30:46platform where they can literally...

00:30:48Electrify Expo can become now the point

00:30:50of purchase.

00:30:51Yeah.

00:30:52It's great.

00:30:53It's great.

00:30:54So I'm in my office, and I'm basically a

00:30:56dinosaur, and I'm looking at two asteroids

00:30:58streaking across the sky.

00:31:00The first asteroid is Amazon selling cars

00:31:03with two-day delivery.

00:31:05And then the other asteroid is AI coming

00:31:08for all of the search engine traffic that

00:31:10we get.

00:31:11And I'm just going, wow, look at the

00:31:12pretty colors on those asteroids.

00:31:14Actually, they're meteors, meteorites,

00:31:16right?

00:31:17Right, right, right.

00:31:18Meteorites, same thing.

00:31:19Just ignore it.

00:31:20It'll all go away.

00:31:21Exactly.

00:31:22Exactly.

00:31:24That's what I was...

00:31:25I was like, hmm.

00:31:26What are the ticket prices?

00:31:2920 bucks.

00:31:3020 bucks?

00:31:3120 bucks.

00:31:32All you can eat?

00:31:33Kids five and under are free.

00:31:34No.

00:31:35The venues take care of the food.

00:31:38Right.

00:31:39All you can experience, essentially?

00:31:41Oh, yeah.

00:31:42Oh, yeah.

00:31:43You don't pay more for, you know, any

00:31:44experience.

00:31:45You buy a ticket, you get all access to

00:31:46everything.

00:31:47Okay.

00:31:48Do you have panels?

00:31:49Oh, yeah.

00:31:50Only at Industry Day.

00:31:51You mean like programming, like panels?

00:31:52If somebody, you know, again, like, what's

00:31:54the difference between a plug-in and a full

00:31:56electric vehicle if I don't know anything

00:31:58and it showed up?

00:31:59You know, like, anything like that?

00:32:01We do.

00:32:02That's one reason why Amazon wanted to come

00:32:03in.

00:32:04So, they've taken over this area called the

00:32:06Recharge Lounge.

00:32:08And so, in that Recharge Lounge, we have

00:32:10panels going all day teaching people about

00:32:12EVs and plug-ins.

00:32:13That's what I meant.

00:32:14Cool.

00:32:15Yeah.

00:32:16And they're doing Industry Day.

00:32:17They have local media or other media come

00:32:21by and learn about stuff.

00:32:22I'm actually hosting one on Friday.

00:32:25Oh, must be nice.

00:32:26Must be nice.

00:32:27I'll be driving a McLaren around.

00:32:29With somebody from AWS.

00:32:30Oh.

00:32:31Our buddy Frank.

00:32:32Talking about generative AI.

00:32:34Gen AI and, again, that beautiful asteroid.

00:32:37Yeah.

00:32:38AWS, which is Amazon Web Services, it's just

00:32:40taking over the car world.

00:32:42Right.

00:32:43So, yeah.

00:32:44No, it'll be great.

00:32:4520 bucks.

00:32:46And you sell merch.

00:32:47We sell merch.

00:32:48It's good.

00:32:50Are you wearing merch?

00:32:51Is that a merch?

00:32:52I'm wearing a little merch tag.

00:32:53Nice.

00:32:54Yeah.

00:32:55You know what blows my mind is, because you

00:32:56have a history with SEMA, is that people buy

00:32:59SEMA merchandise.

00:33:00Like, people go out of their way.

00:33:02Oh.

00:33:03SEMA's cool.

00:33:04Why not buy SEMA merchandise?

00:33:05Well, you've seen the merchandise.

00:33:07Okay.

00:33:08I did buy, I bought a SEMA hat one time.

00:33:11Hey, we love SEMA.

00:33:12We're SEMA members.

00:33:13But the merch is...

00:33:14I bought a SEMA hat one time as a joke that

00:33:17was passed around the entire weekend.

00:33:19You'd find people slamming on their heads and

00:33:21run away.

00:33:22Hey, now, the merch is as good as it can be

00:33:24for a...

00:33:25I mean, it's a trade show.

00:33:27That's a bucket list item for a lot of people

00:33:29to go to SEMA.

00:33:30Yeah.

00:33:31No, no.

00:33:32Again.

00:33:33To fake a company.

00:33:34Again.

00:33:35To get a pass.

00:33:36Again.

00:33:37To go to SEMA.

00:33:38I'm not saying anything about SEMA.

00:33:39I'm talking about the SEMA hat.

00:33:40Right.

00:33:41Okay.

00:33:42Yeah.

00:33:43So, Google SEMA hat.

00:33:44I take it you're more of a minimalist when it

00:33:45comes to fashion.

00:33:46Again, this...

00:33:47He's an elitist.

00:33:48I'm not an elitist.

00:33:51Again, this particular hat was like...

00:33:54Okay.

00:33:55It just said SEMA.

00:33:56It was...

00:33:57Jason Aldean wouldn't be caught dead wearing

00:33:59this because it's too patriotic.

00:34:00You know what I'm saying?

00:34:01Oh, boy.

00:34:02Yeah.

00:34:03All right.

00:34:04So, what's next?

00:34:05The global domination.

00:34:06Is there...

00:34:07I would have to think international expansion.

00:34:10Do you want in Canada or Mexico or overseas?

00:34:13It's on the radar.

00:34:14It's on the radar.

00:34:15We've definitely been approached by other countries,

00:34:18mayor's offices of different cities and wanting

00:34:20to bring Electra for Expo there.

00:34:22But our focus right now is on the US and Canada

00:34:26and Mexico.

00:34:27Sounds like a...

00:34:28Okay.

00:34:29Canada and Mexico.

00:34:30All right.

00:34:31Yeah.

00:34:32Vancouver.

00:34:33How big...

00:34:3452 weeks a year.

00:34:35How big could you go?

00:34:36Exactly right.

00:34:37You almost have to start spreading it out and

00:34:38having different tours.

00:34:39So, you have a US tour.

00:34:40Well, let's turn it to you for a second here.

00:34:43You were saying that you were an EV skeptic and

00:34:45that you experienced the light bulb moment.

00:34:47Talk us through that.

00:34:48Why were you an EV skeptic?

00:34:49Let's just...

00:34:50Well, we'll probably cover this a little bit in the

00:34:52intro, but BJ has been in the industry for a long

00:34:55time, mostly on the aftermarket high performance

00:34:58side of the house, especially earlier in his

00:35:00career.

00:35:01At one point, he was helping run Mopar's high

00:35:05performance youth marketing division, right?

00:35:08Right.

00:35:09And doing drifting.

00:35:12That was Sam Hubinet's team.

00:35:15That was.

00:35:16The Viper.

00:35:17I saw Sam the other day.

00:35:19Yep.

00:35:20Found Sam in a rental car and thought he could

00:35:21drive.

00:35:22And then we put him in a competition coupe Viper

00:35:24and we won the championship a couple of years in

00:35:26a row, I think.

00:35:27Yeah.

00:35:28He's pretty good.

00:35:29That was at Formula Drift back in, gosh, early

00:35:302000s.

00:35:31Sean Carlson.

00:35:32Were you helping?

00:35:33Oh, yeah.

00:35:34So, my Sean Carlson days who, rest in peace, he

00:35:36passed away from Brugada syndrome.

00:35:38He and I started our relationship at Meguiar's.

00:35:41So, Meguiar's sponsored his front wheel drive drag

00:35:44car.

00:35:45Yep.

00:35:46And then we just continued the relationship from

00:35:48there and he ended up becoming the team owner for

00:35:51Sam Hubinet.

00:35:52Right.

00:35:53Right, right, right, right, right.

00:35:54Sorry, sorry.

00:35:55You said you discovered Sam in a rental car?

00:35:57Yeah, that's how we discovered Sam.

00:35:58What was he doing?

00:35:59Well, his very, well, I'm going to butcher this.

00:36:02Okay.

00:36:03Real quick, if you don't know Sam, if you watch

00:36:05like the last 10 years of Dodge commercials, he's

00:36:07been the stunt driver.

00:36:08He's amazing.

00:36:09And he's got a Huracan that he does a ton of

00:36:12drifting in.

00:36:13Yeah.

00:36:14Some Fast and Furious stuff.

00:36:15Super talented dude.

00:36:16Incredible.

00:36:17I mean, if you've never been able to kind of see

00:36:19what these guys can do with a car, it's

00:36:21incredible.

00:36:22Especially if you're a car guy or an enthusiast

00:36:24to see these guys whip around these cars and put

00:36:26them, you know, between two orange cones and, you

00:36:30know, they're coming 60 miles an hour and just

00:36:33going to drift it and pull a 180 right in that

00:36:36cone and park it right there.

00:36:37They can do it.

00:36:38And they do it.

00:36:39It's pretty incredible.

00:36:40But yeah, Sam came to the U.S.

00:36:42and we discovered him at a Formula Drift event

00:36:46where he had rented a Nissan.

00:36:51Was it a Nissan or a Supra?

00:36:54A Toyota Supra.

00:36:55But anyways, he had rented a car and that's how

00:36:57he entered Formula Drift for the first time.

00:36:59And he did well.

00:37:00Yeah.

00:37:01I'm sure he did.

00:37:02I think it was a rental car and I don't know

00:37:04what kind of modifications they made to that

00:37:06rental car.

00:37:07But yeah, I saw him and got connected with him

00:37:11and signed him.

00:37:12Who was your boss at Dodge back then?

00:37:16The amazing Kevin Miller.

00:37:18Okay.

00:37:19Who now is president of USAC, United States

00:37:21Auto Club.

00:37:22Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:37:23Okay, okay.

00:37:24Yeah.

00:37:25And you did that for, well, I'm jumping around.

00:37:27Yeah, let's go back to Meguiar's because, I

00:37:30mean, that's where I got the car bug.

00:37:32I'm sure there's car guys who listen to this

00:37:34podcast and I think that any car guy who looked

00:37:40at electric vehicles like I did, where you kind

00:37:43of felt like they lacked a soul.

00:37:45You throw your windshield wiper fluid on when

00:37:47you're on the freeway and make sure you're

00:37:49missing the electric car behind you.

00:37:51That was me.

00:37:52Oh, really?

00:37:53Wow.

00:37:54Oh, for sure.

00:37:55I mean, I hated EVs.

00:37:56And just because that's the culture.

00:37:58Well, it's-

00:37:59You never drove one.

00:38:00One, I had never driven one.

00:38:01I hated them.

00:38:02I was developing all of my perception around

00:38:04something I didn't know anything about.

00:38:06Who does that?

00:38:07Huh.

00:38:08Who does that?

00:38:09Interesting.

00:38:10Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:38:11And I just felt like they were kind of the

00:38:13antithesis to what made a car guy a car guy,

00:38:17which was, you know, you hear the rumble of

00:38:19a V8 or the singing of a 9.4 turbo.

00:38:21It's like, that's part of the visceral experience

00:38:23of owning a car.

00:38:24Right?

00:38:25So you delete that, forget about it, you're

00:38:27never getting me behind the wheel of that car.

00:38:29And then I drove an EV.

00:38:30What'd you drive?

00:38:31What was the first one?

00:38:32A Model S.

00:38:33I think it was in, it was a 2016, I think,

00:38:35Model S.

00:38:36Okay.

00:38:37So 2016 would be like a P100D or something

00:38:40like that.

00:38:41Yeah, it was like that.

00:38:42Ludicrous model.

00:38:43I did not expect what I was about to jump into.

00:38:46And then I had my light bulb moment.

00:38:47I'm like, oh man, I had this all wrong.

00:38:49I was all wrong.

00:38:50What was it?

00:38:51What was it about it?

00:38:52It was the instant torque and acceleration.

00:38:53Right.

00:38:54Then.

00:38:55Right.

00:38:56And that's what got me to start warming up

00:38:58to electric cars.

00:38:59Did you buy one?

00:39:00I didn't.

00:39:01Okay.

00:39:02No.

00:39:03What are you driving now?

00:39:04Porsche Taycan Turbo S.

00:39:05Okay.

00:39:06Turbo.

00:39:07Is that the first?

00:39:08Turbo S.

00:39:09First EV you bought or no?

00:39:10Yeah.

00:39:11First EV I bought, yeah.

00:39:12Oh, no kidding.

00:39:13Yeah.

00:39:14Okay.

00:39:15So why not a Tesla if that was such a light

00:39:16bulb moment for you?

00:39:17Everybody had one.

00:39:18Like I'm a car guy, so I always, you always

00:39:20look to like have something that people don't,

00:39:22you don't see every day.

00:39:24So for me, it was like, hey, I don't, I love

00:39:26the lines of the Taycan.

00:39:28It's gorgeous, right?

00:39:29Okay.

00:39:30Absolutely.

00:39:31And then I didn't see them a lot where I lived.

00:39:33So I'm like, hey, this is a fit for me.

00:39:35Right.

00:39:36And it's funny, it's funny you bring that up

00:39:38because, you know, a lot of, some of the biggest

00:39:40EV haters are like the drag race guys.

00:39:42And I'm like, well, why would you hate a

00:39:44technology that helps you go quicker in a

00:39:46straight line?

00:39:47Yeah, why would you?

00:39:48And it's, they just like, well, I don't know.

00:39:50I just hate it.

00:39:51You know, they'll give the reason.

00:39:53They'll say, it doesn't deafen me.

00:39:55And they're all deaf, you know.

00:39:57Yeah, but that's, that's, that's it.

00:39:59You summed it up.

00:40:00Like, that's, that's who I was.

00:40:02Yeah.

00:40:03I'm not a drag car guy, a drag race guy, but,

00:40:05you know, that's kind of how I felt about them.

00:40:07But it's funny now, you read, because you, you,

00:40:09you hear this, like, doesn't have a soul, which

00:40:11to me is the biggest cop out, because it's like,

00:40:13oh, it doesn't have this ineffable thing you

00:40:15can't see.

00:40:16Like, oh, you know, it doesn't, the emperor

00:40:18doesn't have clothes.

00:40:19You know what I mean?

00:40:20It's, it's, I remember like when the Nissan

00:40:22GTR came out, suddenly here's a Japanese car

00:40:24that kicked the snot out of every European car.

00:40:26No soul.

00:40:27Doesn't have soul.

00:40:28What does that mean?

00:40:29Doesn't have soul.

00:40:30They said that about the GTR.

00:40:31Oh, yeah.

00:40:32Oh, that was, that was the only way to critique it.

00:40:34It's a robot.

00:40:35Yeah.

00:40:36It's soulless.

00:40:37Well, what, I don't know what you mean.

00:40:39You know what I mean?

00:40:40It's, it's, it's just a cop out excuse.

00:40:42So, you know, EVs have as much soul as any

00:40:44other mechanical object.

00:40:45You know what I meant about EV didn't have a

00:40:47soul?

00:40:48It was probably because I couldn't feel it.

00:40:50Like, I, I could feel the acceleration then

00:40:52after I had a drag, but before I got into it,

00:40:54I couldn't hear it and I couldn't feel it.

00:40:56I couldn't hear it.

00:40:57I literally could not hear the car.

00:40:59Yeah.

00:41:00No, they don't make that kind of noise.

00:41:02Yeah.

00:41:03I couldn't.

00:41:04So, so those elements made me feel like, hey,

00:41:06this isn't jive.

00:41:07This isn't, this doesn't work for me.

00:41:09No, I'm not picking on you.

00:41:10I'm just saying in general, I hear this a lot

00:41:12and, you know, people, you know, and I'm like,

00:41:14really?

00:41:15Because I'm really enjoying the hell out of,

00:41:17also, by the way, I love gasoline powered cars.

00:41:19You know, they're also great.

00:41:20Good ones, like bad gasoline cars and bad EVs

00:41:22all suck the same.

00:41:23We're in a place now where we've had to politicize

00:41:25what any, you know, electric cars.

00:41:27And so it's like, hey, if you, if you're a believer

00:41:29in electric car, then you sit on this side.

00:41:31And if you're not a believer in electric car,

00:41:33then you sit on this side.

00:41:34It's so weird.

00:41:35Yeah.

00:41:36And then, you know, we have, you know,

00:41:38administrations or candidates who, you know,

00:41:40are looking for votes and they're saying things

00:41:42to go ahead and drive more polarization

00:41:44of this industry.

00:41:45Yeah.

00:41:46What BJ's dancing around with Trump the other day

00:41:48said that if he's reelected, you won't be able

00:41:50to buy electric cars.

00:41:51So what did he say?

00:41:52What did he say?

00:41:53Because I've been trying to look that up.

00:41:55It was, I mean, I don't have the exact tweet

00:41:57in front of me, but he basically said,

00:42:00if I'm reelected, you won't be able to buy

00:42:02these type of cars, meaning EVs, which is insanity.

00:42:05And again, to me, it's double insanity.

00:42:07Like most EV makers that are just pure EV makers

00:42:10are American, you know, or Chinese,

00:42:12but they're not allowed in the country.

00:42:14But like, you know, Tesla, Rivian, Lucid,

00:42:16those are American companies, you know,

00:42:18like why wouldn't you want to support them?

00:42:21Well, I'd like to work that out a little bit

00:42:23because, you know, the interesting thing

00:42:25I think about Trump is that he's not

00:42:27a career politician.

00:42:28He's a businessman, right?

00:42:29Wow.

00:42:30Well, let's just kind of go down this road first

00:42:33in this thinking, because I'm verbally processing

00:42:35this while you talk to me about it.

00:42:37So a businessman would look at all of the investment

00:42:40that has been made in the industry

00:42:42by all these auto manufacturers, right,

00:42:44who have retooled manufacturing facilities,

00:42:46who have done all the R&D and the engineering

00:42:49to start rolling out all these electric cars.

00:42:52Yeah.

00:42:53I was reading a quote, I think it was yesterday,

00:42:56from, who was it, the chair of Ford Motor Company?

00:43:00Jim Farley, yeah.

00:43:01No, no, it was one of the Ford family.

00:43:03Bill Ford.

00:43:04Bill Ford.

00:43:05And he said, look, we develop cars

00:43:08based on a cycle that's longer than an election cycle.

00:43:12Right, right, right.

00:43:13So, but he said that, you know,

00:43:15this flip-flopping back and forth is not good.

00:43:17Oh, no.

00:43:18Not only that.

00:43:19And he might have said that a couple months ago

00:43:21and not recently, but I remember reading that

00:43:23and thinking, well, of course,

00:43:24and if you're a businessman coming into this,

00:43:26you would look at the entire industry and see that,

00:43:28hey, there is gain here, there's jobs here,

00:43:30there's opportunities, these manufacturers

00:43:32who are so important to our economy

00:43:34have already retooled to go electric.

00:43:37That type of messaging is not good for the U.S. overall.

00:43:43Not only that, a good businessman would look around

00:43:46and say, well, you know, Norway next year

00:43:48is banning new internal combustion vehicles completely.

00:43:53Oh, no, it was a small market.

00:43:54Well, China's a couple years behind.

00:43:56China's saying like 2029, 30,

00:43:58they're going to ban the sale of new internal combustion cars.

00:44:01So if you're not building them in America,

00:44:03you're at a massive disadvantage.

00:44:04And if you go back a few years,

00:44:06American OEM's business plan, you talk to them,

00:44:08they're like, it's China.

00:44:10You know, Lincoln, what's your product strategy?

00:44:12China.

00:44:13And, you know, and by the way,

00:44:14Europe is, the EU's going to ban the sale

00:44:16of new internal combustion cars.

00:44:18And then 12 states, 12 American states go in 2035.

00:44:22So it's like, you know, a good businessman

00:44:24would take that into account, you know,

00:44:26and like, yeah, okay, you're going to have a hard time

00:44:28selling, you know, electric vehicles in North Dakota.

00:44:31But, you know, where the people live,

00:44:33where your expo's going,

00:44:34you're not going to have that hard of a time.

00:44:36But I think the point that BJ's trying to make here

00:44:38and the thing that I would be, that you'd get my hackles up

00:44:41if I was one of these triggered anti-EV folks listening,

00:44:46is like, I don't want the stuff banned.

00:44:48Why are you talking, I don't care,

00:44:49I don't care about China.

00:44:50Don't talk to me about states that are banning

00:44:52because California, you know, banning stuff,

00:44:54that's ridiculous.

00:44:55Which...

00:44:56Banning the sale of new, not banning...

00:44:58Sure, sure.

00:44:59But I think the bigger picture kind of point here,

00:45:01and I've said this a couple times,

00:45:03is look, no matter what side of this debate,

00:45:07quote unquote debate is,

00:45:08so your red state, blue state,

00:45:10the politicization of EVs, you're on.

00:45:13I think we can agree that Americans

00:45:15should have the best technology,

00:45:19whether it's internal combustion,

00:45:21whether it's plug-in hybrid,

00:45:22whether it's EVs.

00:45:24And right now, you know who has it

00:45:26and is about to eat the world's lunch

00:45:28before eventually coming to the US?

00:45:30It is China.

00:45:31And I was with, I met a rep

00:45:33from a huge Chinese company yesterday

00:45:36and we got to talking about autonomous vehicles

00:45:39and where they're at with Level 5.

00:45:41And she basically said,

00:45:42and she was not, this was not the intention

00:45:45of her comment, just to be clear.

00:45:47She just said it as an aside,

00:45:48which I was like, we are so screwed.

00:45:50She said, you know what's great is that in China,

00:45:52all the manufacturers believe

00:45:54that autonomous is the future.

00:45:56So they're all working really, really hard right now

00:45:58as it's a race to get to Level 5,

00:46:01no steering wheel, full automated driving

00:46:04for as long and as far as you want.

00:46:06That's not happening here.

00:46:08We're busy arguing over whether these things

00:46:10are good or bad or whatever.

00:46:11This huge company, and they're state subsidized.

00:46:15They got all this money coming in

00:46:17to make this stuff happen.

00:46:19Well, who's subsidizing them?

00:46:20You know, you're shopping trip to Walmart.

00:46:22Right, to bring it back to BJ's point,

00:46:24we're sitting here arguing.

00:46:26Actually, we talked about this with another guest.

00:46:29No, yeah, we've talked about this a few times.

00:46:31The biggest problem with whatever happens

00:46:33come November in the election

00:46:34is whoever, you know,

00:46:37if this guy comes in and he undoes all the policies

00:46:40like the CHIPS Act, like the Inflation Reduction Act,

00:46:43if he shifts that thing back,

00:46:45all it does is set American businesses

00:46:47behind other countries, and we're screwed.

00:46:50So we just need to set up some of these.

00:46:52Can we just agree that we should all have

00:46:54the best stuff and work towards it?

00:46:55If you don't like it, you can drive something else.

00:46:58You can drive ICE for probably another 30 years

00:47:00in this country.

00:47:01You don't have to move to a different state.

00:47:03But we also shouldn't be, you know,

00:47:07we shouldn't be telling people what they must drive.

00:47:10We need to give Americans the choice

00:47:12to decide what is best for them.

00:47:14If electric cars are best for them, great.

00:47:16If diesel's best for them, great.

00:47:18If you want to ride a horse, you can ride a horse.

00:47:20Well, except for there is, but again,

00:47:22I don't like that because there is, you know,

00:47:25the fact that, you know, climate change

00:47:28caused by excessive CO2 coming out of tailpipes

00:47:31is screwing the world for humanity.

00:47:34The Earth will be here for billions of years

00:47:36after humans are gone.

00:47:37But I want my kid and his kids and your kids

00:47:40and their kids to, like, be able to eat

00:47:42and, like, you know, live by the beach, you know.

00:47:44And so we do need to reduce CO2.

00:47:47That's an inarguable fact.

00:47:49So we can't be burning gasoline at the rate we are now.

00:47:52They can live by the beach in Colorado.

00:47:54Yeah.

00:47:55That'll be fine.

00:47:56Yeah, so that'll be my only thing.

00:47:57I know you're saying choice, choice, choice.

00:47:59I get that.

00:48:00Every time you tell an American consumer

00:48:01what they must do,

00:48:02it's going to raise immediate skepticism.

00:48:04Yeah, but that's a problem with an American consumer.

00:48:06You know, it's like, you know, it's a...

00:48:09I understand.

00:48:10I get it.

00:48:11I get it.

00:48:12Oh, you can't tell me.

00:48:13Don't tread on me.

00:48:14I'll take the middle path.

00:48:15That's just a cultural thing.

00:48:16I'll take the middle path and say that.

00:48:17I think it'll be...

00:48:18First of all, there's a little bit of a whiff

00:48:21of NRA to this argument,

00:48:24which is that you're not going to...

00:48:26There are such strong feelings on both sides.

00:48:28Oh, of course, of course.

00:48:29You will be able to drive

00:48:30some form of internal combustion,

00:48:32probably hybridized, long into the future,

00:48:34but it won't be everywhere available,

00:48:37and probably at the end of it,

00:48:39it's going to be really expensive for you to do it.

00:48:41It'll be like a luxury goods.

00:48:42Yeah, it'll be like racehorses.

00:48:43Again, I was making a joke about horses,

00:48:45but there are communities in California

00:48:48where you can ride your horse around your neighborhood.

00:48:50Sure.

00:48:51They're gated communities.

00:48:52They're only for the few people

00:48:53that actually care for them.

00:48:54Or Burbank, but yeah.

00:48:55It's an election year.

00:48:56You know, it's muddy, it's gray.

00:48:58Dust will settle after the election year is over,

00:49:00because even on the other side,

00:49:01there have been emission mandates

00:49:04that have been rolled back this year

00:49:06that you've seen.

00:49:07Yeah, which is bad.

00:49:08Right, but it's happening.

00:49:10I guess what I'm saying,

00:49:11I'm making a point,

00:49:12is that it's happening on both sides,

00:49:13and it's an election year.

00:49:14Sure, sure, yes, yes.

00:49:15So you got to get through November,

00:49:17and then see where the dust is really going to settle.

00:49:19And I don't see these acts being rolled back,

00:49:24because if you look at it from a businessman approach

00:49:27or a businesswoman approach,

00:49:28you cannot roll those things back

00:49:32after what the manufacturers have done

00:49:34over the last half decade at least.

00:49:36Especially the part of the IRA,

00:49:38the Inflation Reduction Act,

00:49:39where it's like, build your batteries here.

00:49:41So everyone's setting up battery factories.

00:49:43And factories are, as we know,

00:49:44that's the investment.

00:49:45All that is good for America.

00:49:46All that is good for America.

00:49:47It is good for America, yeah.

00:49:48We want the supply chain to be here

00:49:50for when China invades Taiwan.

00:49:53I will not be able to go to China

00:49:56after saying that on air,

00:49:57but that's kind of the reality to it.

00:49:59And what's next on my mind is,

00:50:01we got to increase the shipbuilding capability

00:50:03of this country, because we can't.

00:50:05China's building ships right now.

00:50:06I like where this conversation's going.

00:50:07Yeah, China's building, by the way.

00:50:09Not controversial at all.

00:50:10China, what they're doing is,

00:50:11because they still have factories

00:50:12that are manufacturing internal combustion cars,

00:50:15massive amounts of them,

00:50:16and nobody wants to buy them in China,

00:50:18because again, culturally they said, no more.

00:50:21And so they need to ship them off

00:50:23to Southern Europe, India, South America.

00:50:26And so China's building six of the biggest ships

00:50:29in the history of the world

00:50:30to transport dirty, no, massive,

00:50:33dirty internal combustion cars to Portugal

00:50:37that you can buy for 15,000 euros new.

00:50:39It's just crazy.

00:50:40It's kind of scandalous.

00:50:41I'll give you a hot tip.

00:50:42If you want to track,

00:50:43because everyone's wondering,

00:50:44when are the Chinese EVs going to come to this country?

00:50:46Yeah, I'm wondering that myself.

00:50:48The hot tip for all the analysts,

00:50:52these are the same guys

00:50:53who hire drones to fly over factories

00:50:56and they count the employee cars in the parking lot.

00:50:59The one is to look at which Chinese car companies

00:51:02are buying and or building cargo ships

00:51:06and where they are and where they're starting to go.

00:51:09Because the ones who are amassing cargo ships

00:51:11means they're actually going to start exporting.

00:51:13And tell you what,

00:51:14BYD's bought a lot of cargo ships.

00:51:16So that's sort of the hot ticket.

00:51:18Yeah, and BYD's doing a pickup truck?

00:51:20Dude, what country likes pickup trucks?

00:51:22BYD just dropped a thousand-mile range plug-in hybrid.

00:51:26No, I know.

00:51:27I was like, well, what country really likes big pickup trucks?

00:51:29Oh, I know.

00:51:30There's only one.

00:51:31Speaking of, let's bring it back to BJ.

00:51:33Now, this is what it's all about.

00:51:35And I think talking about these sorts of issues

00:51:38are probably the most important things to discuss.

00:51:42Because there needs to be...

00:51:44The air and the water is so muddy right now

00:51:46that we do need to talk about these issues

00:51:49and try to bring some clarity to it.

00:51:51Because there's so much gray out there.

00:51:54We call it FUD.

00:51:55Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt.

00:51:57That's our crypto word.

00:51:59Which leads me to this question I want to ask you.

00:52:02Because, again, we only touched a little bit on your background.

00:52:05You did youth marketing at Fiat, Chrysler, FCA at the time.

00:52:09You worked at Dubb Magazine.

00:52:11You were a marketing professor.

00:52:13You were president owner of the TORC,

00:52:16the Off-Road Championship Series, which you then sold.

00:52:19You've been part of the Youth Engagement Task Force for SEMA,

00:52:23the Specialty Equipment Market Association.

00:52:27You have your agency.

00:52:29And now you're doing this.

00:52:30You are a man of many talents.

00:52:32You've been across the aftermarket.

00:52:34You've been promoting a dirt racing series.

00:52:38You were involved with drifting and import drag racing.

00:52:42You're a sharp businessman.

00:52:44You live in Texas.

00:52:45You're an EV convert.

00:52:47You must have had some interesting conversations with other folks,

00:52:51probably still to this day, who are like,

00:52:53EV, not for me.

00:52:56Totally.

00:52:57What are you doing?

00:52:58Electro-Vaxx?

00:52:59Really?

00:53:00What are you doing?

00:53:01Especially in Texas.

00:53:02Even in Austin?

00:53:03Oh, yeah.

00:53:04Oh, yeah.

00:53:05Really?

00:53:06So what are those conversations?

00:53:07Walk us through it.

00:53:08What are they like today?

00:53:11Are you optimistic?

00:53:13Are people going to change their mind?

00:53:15Are you just like, meh?

00:53:17Is it inevitable?

00:53:18Is it inevitable?

00:53:19I get to ring this bell.

00:53:21Yeah.

00:53:22Look, I live 45 minutes west of Austin,

00:53:24a little bit more out in the country.

00:53:26But most of the dudes I hang out with,

00:53:29they're driving diesel trucks or gas guys.

00:53:33And they are who I was in 2016.

00:53:37You have a diesel truck, too?

00:53:38I don't.

00:53:40But I'm just saying, they are.

00:53:42That's a great point.

00:53:44I want to make a point after you finish.

00:53:47They are where I was.

00:53:49And they've even been to my shows.

00:53:52And they're great.

00:53:53They're very supportive people.

00:53:55But they've dug their feet in.

00:53:58And what will convert them?

00:54:00Maybe nothing.

00:54:02Maybe nothing.

00:54:03I think that the future of the EV industry

00:54:05is not necessarily tied up into my generation, Gen X.

00:54:09Then it is Gen Y and Gen Z and the ones that follow.

00:54:12That's a very good point.

00:54:13But also, I've been getting old,

00:54:16is all this next statement means.

00:54:18But I remember very well.

00:54:20I was trying to find the exact issue.

00:54:22But before I worked for Motor Trend,

00:54:24when I subscribed to Car and Driver,

00:54:26there was an issue that came out.

00:54:28And it was going through the editorials up front.

00:54:30It was like, Cheva, EVs just suck.

00:54:33And they're dorky.

00:54:34And then, like, Brock Yates.

00:54:35It's like, EVs are a commie plot to ruin America.

00:54:39Patrick Bedard.

00:54:40Some absolutely insane mathematical proof

00:54:44that a Prius is worse than an atomic bomb for the environment.

00:54:48And today, I don't know what the equivalent of that is.

00:54:51But everyone's like, I want a hybrid.

00:54:53I don't want a full EV.

00:54:54I want a hybrid.

00:54:57The new 911 was just announced.

00:54:59People, they're not really upset about the hybridization

00:55:01because it's a tiny battery.

00:55:03I want the start button.

00:55:05Or the key back.

00:55:07They put a start button on it.

00:55:09And so it's like, the goal posts do shift over time.

00:55:12So while these gentlemen seem dug in today,

00:55:16I bet in 20 years they'll be like,

00:55:18no, I want the lithium ion batteries.

00:55:20I don't want these stupid silica cathode batteries.

00:55:24You don't get no power density out of that.

00:55:26I want cobalt.

00:55:27There's a lot of truth to that.

00:55:29You know what I mean?

00:55:30And if we were exporting, I mean,

00:55:34the country may have the ability to be one of the biggest

00:55:37exporters of battery tech.

00:55:40Especially as we shift from the minerals that are being

00:55:42used to create these batteries.

00:55:44Or even look for them.

00:55:45I mean, that's another big point.

00:55:47Like, we just started really looking for lithium in the US.

00:55:50And there's a deposit they just found in California.

00:55:53And there's a huge one in Reno?

00:55:55Enough for like 300 million vehicles.

00:55:58And the recycling is getting underway.

00:56:00Unlike gasoline, lithium is 100% recyclable.

00:56:03Every part of it, all these rare earth metals,

00:56:05you dig them out once and they're out.

00:56:07Unlike oil, we're going to dig up for eternity.

00:56:10And it can all be, that's just getting going, the recycling.

00:56:13But like, so it's, we're just, you know,

00:56:15we're in this early stages, bottom of the first,

00:56:19top of the second.

00:56:20People forget how early we are in this transition.

00:56:23I use this example.

00:56:25You know, when we went from horse-drawn carriages

00:56:27to gas cars?

00:56:29I don't, I wasn't there.

00:56:30Well, I know, I know.

00:56:31But you've read it.

00:56:32I'm a month older than you.

00:56:35If you read about this, if you read about this,

00:56:38you know, there were no gas stations.

00:56:40Oh yeah, totally.

00:56:41So the way that they got gas delivered to them

00:56:43was from milk trucks.

00:56:44Right.

00:56:45Or the drug store.

00:56:46So that's, we find ourselves just probably past

00:56:48that milk truck station.

00:56:49It's one of the biggest barriers to actually driving

00:56:53kind of a higher trajectory of EV adoption

00:56:55than we do today is the rollout of EV charging infrastructure.

00:57:00And that's holding us back.

00:57:02Totally.

00:57:03Do you have charge, or like Electrify America,

00:57:06EVgo, or ChargePoint, are they at your shows?

00:57:08Do they do little setups or no?

00:57:10Electrify America and EVgo are not, but they're-

00:57:13Naturally.

00:57:15He's got it, he's got it.

00:57:16Brilliant, brilliant strategy.

00:57:18What's your take on that?

00:57:19He's got an ax to the head.

00:57:20Just how could they not be there?

00:57:22How could they not be there?

00:57:23They should be showing, look, here's how quick it is.

00:57:26You plug it in.

00:57:27Of course, it doesn't work that way,

00:57:29but ideally, it's this easy.

00:57:31Well, that's a big thing about coming to our expo

00:57:33is just people understanding this idea

00:57:35of plugging something in.

00:57:36So in the Amazon recharge lounge,

00:57:38you literally have two vehicles with chargers next to it,

00:57:41and people all day are just doing this.

00:57:43They're just plugging it in going, oh, it's that simple?

00:57:45Man, Amazon should open up a charging network.

00:57:48Actually, controversial related question.

00:57:52So you have-

00:57:53I'm so mad at them.

00:57:54You have charging.

00:57:55How do you charge all these vehicles that you have on site?

00:57:59The manufacturers are responsible

00:58:00for charging their own vehicles.

00:58:01Do they bring giant diesel charging stations

00:58:03or do they go offsite?

00:58:04Nothing on site.

00:58:05They're going offsite.

00:58:06Yeah, they're in a parking lot.

00:58:08So we do big testing programs like Car of the Year,

00:58:12SUV of the Year, and we've, the last few years,

00:58:15have been really embracing the challenge of,

00:58:18it's not like anything like you guys.

00:58:20We'll get like 40 or 45 SUVs together,

00:58:23and these days, increasing greater than half

00:58:26requires some kind of charging,

00:58:28and we test out in the desert.

00:58:29So we've, last year, Tesla dropped off a supercharger,

00:58:34a semi-drawn giant battery, basically,

00:58:37to charge the vehicles.

00:58:38We had GM send a hydrogen-powered electric vehicle

00:58:44charging station.

00:58:45That one was cool.

00:58:46It charged like six at a time.

00:58:47It was pretty rad.

00:58:48Yeah, that is pretty cool.

00:58:49I have the most idiotic story to tell you.

00:58:51But first, 100%, so we have a million square feet,

00:58:54so if you think about all those exhibitors

00:58:56who need power to their booths, right?

00:58:58We're delivering a lot of power to people.

00:59:02100% of that, all that 110 power,

00:59:05is all renewable battery packs from Anker.

00:59:09So Anker Solux has these battery stations.

00:59:12Anker, A-N-K-E-R?

00:59:14Yeah, the same Anker that does, like,

00:59:16little charge for your laptop.

00:59:18They now have Anker Solux, which is, I guess,

00:59:20I don't want to call it the commercial division

00:59:22because I'm butchering it.

00:59:23It's for consumers.

00:59:24But it can basically power homes.

00:59:27So they have big units like that,

00:59:29and then they have smaller units

00:59:30where we have them all over the festival.

00:59:32They power everything.

00:59:33They power our inflatable arches.

00:59:35They power our towers.

00:59:36They power our booths.

00:59:37And so people are just plugging into the battery packs.

00:59:39So they bring in, they truck in the big battery packs?

00:59:41Well, we truck it all in.

00:59:42So we have a relationship with them,

00:59:44and we truck it all in.

00:59:45They got their branding on it.

00:59:47It's pretty cool.

00:59:48Oh, yeah.

00:59:49Oh, that's great.

00:59:50And it shocks people.

00:59:51Genius.

00:59:52Hopefully it doesn't actually shock.

00:59:53Zing!

00:59:54Okay, sorry.

00:59:55It surprises people.

00:59:56It surprises people when it does.

00:59:58Through a painful jolt of electricity.

01:00:00They're very surprised.

01:00:01Well, it's funny.

01:00:02I'm such an idiot.

01:00:03But in 2021, our very first show in Orange County,

01:00:05we had these really cool, like, you know,

01:00:07we're trying to create this vibe and this atmosphere.

01:00:09We had these balloons,

01:00:10basically these big balloons that are, you know,

01:00:12you pump air through them, and they're blown up,

01:00:14and they light up, and they look really cool.

01:00:16They're, you know, 10 feet wide.

01:00:17They're cool.

01:00:18But we needed a way to power them.

01:00:20So, you know, stupid gas-powered generator

01:00:23sitting right next to the truss stick that has a balloon.

01:00:25Oh, yeah, yeah.

01:00:26And then social media just lightened up.

01:00:27Of course.

01:00:28Oh, you're at an EV festival, huh?

01:00:29Yeah, yeah.

01:00:30Yeah, you're right.

01:00:31We got to walk the walk, don't we?

01:00:32So that's when we started to look for a partner like Anchor,

01:00:34and we have a great relationship with them.

01:00:36Super smart.

01:00:37Yeah, but look, like you said, it's an infrastructure issue.

01:00:40Right.

01:00:41And honestly, when you produce events like this,

01:00:44the solution for a natural gas generator replacement,

01:00:52an affordable replacement,

01:00:54the industry is just not there yet for festivals like ours.

01:00:56It's getting there.

01:00:57Like, there are solutions out there

01:00:58where they bring in these big battery packs on trailers.

01:01:00Hey, you know, call Chevy.

01:01:01Ask for the new Silverado.

01:01:03Silverado, 200 kilowatt-hour.

01:01:05212 kilowatt-hour battery.

01:01:07You can power your festival all day.

01:01:09And you can run it from Hertz.

01:01:10So you get them charged, and you just rotate them in.

01:01:13I should have asked this at the top as the first question,

01:01:16instead it'll be our last question.

01:01:19So what is the mission for Electrify Expo,

01:01:22your latest venture?

01:01:23What is the...

01:01:25Because in talking to you, you don't come off as...

01:01:27You're sort of very even about what...

01:01:30You said, you know,

01:01:31I don't think my generation's going to convert.

01:01:33It's going to be, you know, Gen Y, Gen Z.

01:01:35I don't get the strong sense that you're on this mission

01:01:38to convert as many people to EVs as possible.

01:01:41So let me just stop there.

01:01:43What's the point?

01:01:44What's the mission statement for Electrify Expo?

01:01:47Yeah, I mean, what we want to do is provide experiences

01:01:50all over this country where people come in

01:01:51and check out this whole electric thing

01:01:53and then make their own determination

01:01:54on if it's best for them.

01:01:56That's where it stands.

01:01:57I mean, certainly we want to educate

01:01:59and entertain people through Electrify Expo

01:02:01about what electric cars can do

01:02:02and what electric vehicles can do,

01:02:04because I think after they have an experience in them,

01:02:06it's like, I think they'll have their lightbulb moment,

01:02:08and that's evident at our show.

01:02:10I mean, we set so many records for demos at our show

01:02:14where people are just loving what they're doing

01:02:16and doing more of it that, you know,

01:02:18that's kind of a clear signal to me that,

01:02:20hey, this is working.

01:02:22We have manufacturers telling us

01:02:23that these demos are converting to sales.

01:02:26I see people who come in as skeptics

01:02:28and leave as converts.

01:02:29Like, it's happening organically and naturally.

01:02:32So instead of us, you know, trying to message this

01:02:35and create a narrative around it,

01:02:36my whole goal here is just to provide an experience.

01:02:39Well, it's a genius plan.

01:02:40Seems to be at the right time.

01:02:41And seems to be working.

01:02:43Working real well.

01:02:44So congrats.

01:02:45By the time you hear this, again,

01:02:47the next stop will be Denver, Colorado,

01:02:50followed by San Francisco in late August.

01:02:52I think they're going to hear it around San Francisco.

01:02:55No, I already checked.

01:02:56They're going to hear this around Denver.

01:02:57Oh, nice.

01:02:58And then Seattle in September, New York in October,

01:03:02and Austin, the final show for 2024 in November.

01:03:07In Austin, right.

01:03:08We're on the Formula One track.

01:03:10So literally, people are getting into an EV

01:03:12on the F1 track.

01:03:13Excellent.

01:03:14It is awesome.

01:03:15Austin, is it your biggest?

01:03:17No, I'd say Long Beach.

01:03:18Long Beach.

01:03:19Yeah, and Long Beach, San Francisco, Seattle,

01:03:20they're our biggest events.

01:03:21Oh, nice.

01:03:22OK.

01:03:23And last chance to plug,

01:03:25where should they go for more information?

01:03:27Come to electrifyexpo.com.

01:03:28Obviously, you can catch us on all the social handles.

01:03:31We want you to come experience this whole electric thing.

01:03:33It doesn't matter if you're an EV advocate or a skeptic

01:03:35or you just want to come check it out.

01:03:37This is the best place to do it.

01:03:38Everyone's here.

01:03:39So come on over.

01:03:40It's an e-mobility party.

01:03:43So everyone's invited type thing.

01:03:45Oh, man.

01:03:46I have one more question.

01:03:47Go, go, go.

01:03:48Have you had anybody who's like super EV hater

01:03:53come and try to protest or throw tomatoes

01:03:56or anything like that?

01:03:57Is there anybody?

01:03:58You mean like what happened at the New York Auto Show?

01:04:00Really?

01:04:01They threw tomatoes during the Ford press conference.

01:04:03Yeah.

01:04:04Or they threw something.

01:04:05Did you guys see that?

01:04:06No.

01:04:07I missed it.

01:04:08It's probably worth a look up.

01:04:09I missed it.

01:04:10No, we have not.

01:04:11OK.

01:04:12We have not had that happen.

01:04:13Knock on wood.

01:04:14All right.

01:04:15Right here.

01:04:16BJ Burwell.

01:04:17Maybe you want it.

01:04:18Maybe it gets some press.

01:04:19BJ Burwell, thank you so much for coming in.

01:04:20Thank you so much.

01:04:21That was fun.

01:04:22That was really cool.

01:04:23Thanks.

01:04:24Thanks, guys.

01:04:26That's a wrap for tonight's talk.

01:04:43The Inevitable Vodcast

01:04:46brought to you by the all-electric Nissan Ariya.

01:04:48Inspired by the future.

01:04:50Designed for the now.

01:04:55you

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