The Celtics Are on the Verge of Banner 18 | First to the Floor
The Celtics are ONE win away from completing an insane playoff run and securing the franchise's 18th banner. Join us for a recap of a thrilling Game 3 win, and a look ahead to the potential clincher in Game 4.
Dan Greenberg of Barstool Sports joins us to revel in all the excitement of the Celtics being one win away from an NBA Championship.
Check out last week's underrated plays vid: • Underrated Moments From Games 1 and 2...
️Subscribe to the podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/fi...
Follow us on Instagram: / firsttothefloor18
Watch live Celtics games with us: https://playback.tv/celticsblog
Check out Spooney's latest column on CelticsBlog: https://bit.ly/3UCITHv
JOIN OUR DISCORD SERVER: / discord
Buy our MERCH, Support the show!: https://bit.ly/fttfmerch
Dan Greenberg of Barstool Sports joins us to revel in all the excitement of the Celtics being one win away from an NBA Championship.
Check out last week's underrated plays vid: • Underrated Moments From Games 1 and 2...
️Subscribe to the podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/fi...
Follow us on Instagram: / firsttothefloor18
Watch live Celtics games with us: https://playback.tv/celticsblog
Check out Spooney's latest column on CelticsBlog: https://bit.ly/3UCITHv
JOIN OUR DISCORD SERVER: / discord
Buy our MERCH, Support the show!: https://bit.ly/fttfmerch
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SportsTranscript
00:00Welcome into First to the Floor, Ben Vallis here.
00:26Thank you for joining us.
00:27Hope you're doing well.
00:28You folks need one more win.
00:31One more win to secure banner 18 alongside me, as always, is Wayne Spooney.
00:35And doing the responsible thing, joining us once again from Barstool Sports, it's Dan
00:39Greenberg.
00:40How are we doing, Greeny?
00:41I'm doing great.
00:42I'm just, I haven't taken a breath in 17 hours, but I told you guys, every step of the way,
00:50we are what's responsible for this run.
00:53So I couldn't, I couldn't leave you hanging on the closeout game.
00:56I mean, this is it.
00:59This is the most important game since probably, what, game seven of 2010?
01:05I'd say so.
01:08I think that's fair.
01:09Feels right.
01:10I think that's right.
01:11Because even, I mean, obviously, I would, part of me wants to lean maybe game four in
01:172022, but yeah, I think, you know, this is, this is the closeout, just like in seven was.
01:23So yeah.
01:24This is for the title.
01:26Yeah.
01:27It's over.
01:28If we win this, I still can't believe it, dude.
01:30Like they have lost two fucking games in the playoffs.
01:34Like that is absolutely absurd.
01:35Shaq Kobe, one of the most dominant teams ever in a terrible era of the NBA.
01:42So they were just like so much better than the rest of the league.
01:45They lost one game.
01:46We're like right there.
01:47And I think people are way too down on the competition of the NBA all season long.
01:53They're like, the NBA has got so much talent.
01:55It's got so much talent.
01:56And then we're whooping ass.
01:57And all of a sudden it's like, they've not been tested.
01:59All these teams stink.
02:00Maybe the Celtics are just that good.
02:02Ever think of that?
02:03You're, you're, you're sort of, you know, that's a stretch.
02:06Let's not get too crazy and suggest that a team that's 79 and 20 with a historic point
02:12of run, they may not be good yet.
02:14Let's, time will tell.
02:15Time will tell.
02:17We win tomorrow though, 80 and 20, which is just such a nice round number, 8-0, 2-0 will
02:22therefore be like the combination for all of my combo locks for the rest of my life.
02:26If we, if we hit that, that special number, not to mention the actual championship that
02:30we'll walk away with.
02:31If they do win tomorrow, you really do get the sense though, that if they don't win tomorrow,
02:35it's going to be game five or at some point they're going to wrap this thing up.
02:38And what we were talking about before we went live here, like let's not anger the basketball
02:42gods.
02:43Like we've, we've all been burnt before so badly so many times that there is still this
02:47air of not doubt, but like, um, waning confidence, I suppose.
02:52Yeah.
02:53Terror is probably the more accurate descriptor there, but look what we want to do, Greeny,
02:56obviously just having you on and having gone live already, it feels like we've sealed the
02:59deal now and they will win tomorrow.
03:00That's if that's consistent with your other appearances so far this post season, but we'll
03:04talk about game three and game four and you know, whether or not anything's changed on
03:09either end.
03:10Cause it does feel like the victories for Boston have just been pretty consistent in
03:14the way that they've tactically gone at the Mavs, but just looking at game three last
03:19night for a sec, was this the most, and like keeping in mind the 20 point, uh, lead that
03:24they gave up, was this the most grown up game this iteration of the Celtics has played?
03:28Yeah.
03:29That's what I was going to say.
03:30Like aside from all the basketball stuff, cause really their strategy, their approach,
03:34like I didn't feel like they tweaked too much for me, this whole run and this game specifically,
03:43it just speaks to the maturity.
03:44This is it.
03:45They've crossed the line that we all, you know, it's a line that you can only say definitively
03:52they've crossed once they do it.
03:54Right.
03:55Same thing.
03:56Like we all believe the Celtics could get it done, but until they do it, it's like,
04:00there's still that room.
04:01I think from how they've approached it to how they've been talking to not overreacting
04:07to the hot start, to finding a way to not let their classic Celtics collapse be the
04:13nail in the coffin.
04:15Like it's just a maturity aspect.
04:17And I think part of that is their playoff pain.
04:20Part of that is Joe.
04:22Part of that is having guys like drew who have been there before, but also I just think
04:27it's normal life maturity, right?
04:30Like we are all more level headed and mature at our ages now than we were two years ago.
04:37So I think you're seeing the two best players enter their NBA prime ages, right?
04:43Like they had the NBA prime like experience with all the success early, but it's different
04:51when you're going through that at 24 than when you're going through that at 26 and 27.
04:56And I think Jalen really especially has talked about it.
05:00He's like, I got paid like all this stuff.
05:03We've checked all these boxes.
05:05It takes a mature human to be like, it doesn't matter what the noise is.
05:09It doesn't matter what the pressure is around us.
05:13We are ready for this moment and I think they're playing that way.
05:16Yeah.
05:17And I mean, I think Jalen has been talking about that all season long.
05:21Like we're taking a broad look at the season, but we're also staying in the moment, enjoying
05:26the moment, which I think is something Missoula really preaches is like work hard, earn everything
05:30you get, but also kind of enjoy the journey.
05:33And Jalen's mindset has been like completely spot on from game one against New York until
05:39where we are right now.
05:41And yeah, like what a mature win.
05:44Like two years ago, they let that lead slip like that.
05:48There is no doubt in my mind they are absolutely losing that game.
05:51It's almost more impressive to blow a huge lead and then claw back and win the game the
05:58way they did than it is to like generate the huge lead in the first place.
06:03So I just I am just incredibly, incredibly impressed with this team.
06:08And I think I said it last show, like I finally trust them.
06:13They have finally built the trust back up after some of their playoff.
06:17I don't even want to say like collapses.
06:20It's not really that.
06:21And like it's disappointments, I guess, but just failures.
06:25Right.
06:26And it's almost like a worn out trope.
06:27Like you got to have your playoff scars before you can win a championship.
06:32I feel like last year after game seven against the Heat, it felt like this is never going
06:37to happen.
06:38And the fact that they're one game away and we are seeing all the shit that they've learned
06:43from be actualized into the NBA finals is like a really rewarding feeling as a fan.
06:50It's it's unique, you know, what's crazy is like I'm with you that I'm with you.
06:55I trust them.
06:56But having said that, I don't think I took a breath for that entire eight minutes.
07:01Oh, sure.
07:02Like I trust that you pull it out, but at the same time, you are you are dragging me
07:08through the hell of something's past that if that's just the rite of passage that we
07:13have to live through, fine, I will sign up for that every day, twice on Sundays because
07:19it was worth it.
07:20Yeah, it's great on rewatch, but at the time, it's absolutely terrifying.
07:25But yeah, I mean, that's that's the at the top of my list of things that make this run
07:28so enjoyable is everything that's happening now in relation to everything that's happened
07:32before.
07:33And you get the sense that that's the same vibe from within the team as well.
07:37Like all of those past playoff scars and and all the painful playoff exits in the past
07:41are all just fueling everything that they're doing now.
07:44As far as the mature approach to this game, even just like we adjusted our rotation, we
07:48brought in Tillman with the absence of KP, but we didn't really adjust the game plan
07:53as far as how we defend Luka, even the corner three point shot from Tillman late in the
07:57game.
07:58Like we still try it, tried to manufacture the same spacing, even though Tillman isn't
08:02the same, obviously same level of shooting threat as KP.
08:06And then that clutch shot by Jalen Brown to push the lead to four late in the game.
08:10Like what is the cutoff point with this team with where we just totally go to Jason Tatum
08:15at that point in the game, Greeny, as opposed to Jalen.
08:18The fact that we went to Jalen instead of Tatum, I think is a sign of maturity as well.
08:22Yeah.
08:23And I think finally, you know, they say, we don't care who's the guy.
08:27We don't care who takes the shot.
08:30But at the same time, it was always Jason Tatum taking the shot.
08:33So it's like, yeah, it's this was the first time where I think there's a trust level.
08:38And honestly, I almost think I can't remember if there was like three or four minutes left,
08:44but the Jalen like 360 turnaround, like the fadeaway jumper that came before his pull
08:51up, I think was an even bigger shot because that was right at the height of their 22 run.
08:57But I just think it speaks like if they're, you know, we went a whole season where it
09:01was Jalen, you know, was the catalyst to start, right?
09:06First quarter, Jalen's a top five player in the league.
09:09And then they sort of went to the, all right, it's the end of the game.
09:13Tatum's the best player.
09:14Like this is this is his time.
09:17Last night, it was the Mavs are punching you first.
09:21Your superstar Tatum kept you afloat, kept you close.
09:25Then it was all right, Jalen's he's clearly feeling it.
09:29He clearly has an advantage.
09:31They didn't move away from that.
09:32I mean, there were still Tatum drives like you still have to get him involved.
09:36But I just think there's, it's so proven what an automatic mid range jumper Jalen has.
09:42I don't hate the adjustment to say, if all the focus is on Tatum, let's let Jalen take
09:48this shot because not only is it a good look for him, but he, I think in that game earned
09:53the right.
09:54I mean, he had the offensive putback on Tatum's mislayup.
09:58He was making free throws.
10:00He was playing defense.
10:01Like, I think they've gotten to the point where it's okay to reward other players over
10:07the course of a game for what they're doing, as opposed to saying, okay, we're four minutes
10:12in the de facto NBA rule is your best player has to take every shot.
10:17The Celtics have two best players and they finally are playing that way, but that speaks
10:22to the maturity.
10:23I think it's, it takes a lot for Tatum to accept that and say, Hey, if this is the,
10:29if this is what wins Jalen finals MVP, hell yeah.
10:32And I don't know if you guys read the Chris Haynes piece today, but like, you know, I
10:37had to clean myself up after you've written the quotes and it's just like, Tatum says,
10:43you know, I went through the pain and I promised myself if I made the finals again, I would
10:48do literally whatever it took to never feel that pain again.
10:51Well, he's backing it up in his play and I think that's made all the difference.
10:55Yeah.
10:56And I just like Jalen Brown has been so frigging good.
10:59He's just nails, man.
11:01He also had eight assists this game too, which I think is kind of low, right?
11:05Yeah.
11:06I think they only have like two or three, two or three.
11:08Yeah.
11:09They combined for five.
11:10I don't know who had two and who had three, the Jays, but, um, and I think another big
11:15thing is they were not made.
11:16They made one shot in like a seven minute stretch in that fourth quarter, but the Mavs
11:22were making some crazy shit.
11:24PJ Washington above the break, Josh green above the break.
11:28Um, just like stuff that you're playing good defense and in there it's going in and you
11:34can't get a bucket on the other end.
11:36And in past times I felt like they've let their defensive efforts slip a little bit
11:41when things are kind of balling up against them like that.
11:44And they didn't, and they were complete nails on the defensive end from like four minutes
11:48till the end of the game.
11:49I think Kyrie got one bucket in some free throws and that was just about it.
11:54We had them so flummoxed offensively that Tim Hardaway jr I sewed against Sam Hauser
12:01with like five minutes left in the game and it was a complete utter brick.
12:06Um, and that's just when, you know, like that's clearly what, not what they're trying to do
12:11offensively.
12:12So I think we're in pretty good shape here and they just got it done, man.
12:16And that's just like that drew pass that hit the net out to Derek was ridiculous.
12:23And it's just like, you're right.
12:25Tatum trusts all the guys to go make plays and Jalen especially made a bunch of plays
12:30at the end of that game.
12:31But everybody did and everybody was great.
12:34And again, this is like, it's been every single game's been a pure a hundred percent team
12:39win and this one was no different.
12:41Yeah.
12:42And I think, you know, to win a championship, people say you have to take it right.
12:46Like nobody just hands you a title.
12:49This was the first time I think we've seen the Celtics be on that stage and not be afraid
12:54of the moment.
12:55Right.
12:56And it was like, they were almost not only prepared for it, but like they wanted to be
13:01in this situation to come through.
13:03And I think, and you know, Jalen, again, he said it after the game, he said, you know,
13:07you saw us in the clutch, we didn't back down from the moment.
13:10And I think you really saw that defensively, their clutch defensive numbers, you know,
13:15for me, that was always my bigger concern during the year.
13:18I think all the attention was on late game offense, but if you look at it, their defensive
13:23rating in these clutch situations, they just couldn't get stopped.
13:26So the fact that we're now in the playoffs and they have like a 65 or 55 defensive rating
13:33in clutch time minutes, like that is what has won them or, you know, in theory is going
13:38to win them the title is they got in these situations in the playoffs, they hunkered
13:43down defensively first and everyone knows a good offense is rooted in a foundational
13:49defense and that's what we've seen.
13:51Yeah, absolutely.
13:52I know everyone's talking about it, but, and you can throw this in the maturity category
13:55as well, but not letting their waning offense affect their defensive intensity in those
14:00clutch moments.
14:01That's been a huge marker for the maturity of this team.
14:05And like you saw that through the Pacers series as well, that was able, how they were able
14:08to turn out all of those clutch wins in that series as well.
14:12Before we move on to like, I kind of want to talk about what we did different in this
14:15game, what the Mavs did differently and what changes we might see in game four, but we
14:19just got to pause a little bit longer, talk about Jalen Brown for a little bit longer.
14:23Because for me, part of my personal enjoyment for this run, it's definitely based on the
14:28growth and maturity of, there's that word again, of Jalen Brown and just how clearly
14:33he has evolved as both a person and a player.
14:37And an example last night, he has that huge arena silencing dunk to end the third quarter.
14:43We get a stop on the next end.
14:45I think that's where Derek White sort of stripped the ball from Kyrie Irving to end the quarter.
14:49And then the opening of the fourth quarter, he draws that charge, which I think is Luka's
14:53fourth foul at that point in the game.
14:56And it's just like the best possible outcome on offense, followed by the best possible
15:01outcome on defense in sequential possessions from this guy who has had all the criticism
15:07leading up to this point and now is probably going to win finals MVP, Greeny.
15:12Just the evolution and the pride from the fan perspective on Jalen Brown there.
15:16And I want to ask you this, both of you this, because for me, the 08 title, I mean, it changed
15:23my life, obviously, but it was like instant, right?
15:28We hadn't gone through battles.
15:30It was almost like you skipped the line at Disney World because you paid for the fast
15:35pass or whatever.
15:36I'd say like 95% of the enjoyment of this run is because this is a team and these are
15:43two foundational players that we have seen and lived with from the start.
15:48The highest of the highs, the lowest of the low, the pain, like everything.
15:53There's just so much satisfaction as a fan to be.
15:57And this is why we were like, oh, you don't want to split them up.
15:59We want to see a homegrown, for lack of a better term, title.
16:04This is it.
16:05This is what we were all wanting to see because it's like, you see, I don't have kids, but
16:12it's like you see them when they're kids and then you see them when they're adults
16:16and they've grown into everything that you could have ever wanted to see as people, as
16:21teammates, as players.
16:23Like when in 2018, when he was dunking on LeBron and they were baby Celtics and we were
16:29thinking this is our life for the next decade.
16:32I think this is the version that we were picturing.
16:35And the scary part is this is like not even really year one of their NBA prime.
16:40It's better than I think any of us could have ever hoped for.
16:43Go ahead, Ben.
16:45Well, there you go.
16:46I can see I can see the emotions bursting out of you.
16:49So I want to hear what that sounds like.
16:50Yeah.
16:51So Ben and I are both dads and there's definitely something to that where it's just like you
16:57invest all three of us, Jake to all four of us have invested so much time, so much mental
17:03energy in watching the Jays, following them off the court, analyzing their games, breaking
17:09them down, getting into arguments, defending them on the Internet.
17:12I was going to say, selfishly, it validates my entire position.
17:16Oh, yes.
17:17Yes.
17:18That's also why I love it.
17:19Yeah.
17:20And I think we've all ridden with them from day one.
17:25I wrote that if we want to trade Jalen Brown, this past offseason was the offseason to do
17:31it.
17:32But in that article, I was like, I don't want to trade Jalen Brown, but here's the argument
17:36for it.
17:37I mean, it was dark sometimes, man, like when Tatum rolled his ankle in game seven against
17:42Miami, game four against Golden State, and we hadn't lost three games in a row all season.
17:48And then all of a sudden we lose three straight and lose the finals.
17:52That one terrible year where we got knocked out in five against the Nets like it's Joe.
17:58One of the original members of this show says, like, you got to put in what does he say?
18:02And like, put in the time as a fan, like, take the he says, he says, earn your stripes.
18:09You got to earn your stripes.
18:10Yeah.
18:11Yeah.
18:12Which we have done time and time again.
18:13Yeah, exactly.
18:14And like to see them on the brink on the brink is just it's super rewarding, man.
18:21Like this is why sports fucking rules and why I don't understand people who aren't really
18:26into it, man.
18:27Like, this is awesome.
18:28Yeah.
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26:41Yeah.
26:42Yeah.
26:43huge aspect of weathering that initial storm.
26:46I was like, maybe, if not Tatum's best game in the series
26:49and certainly his best stretch,
26:50best quarter or two of the series,
26:52we were given the Kyrie Irving game,
26:54which we were able to endure.
26:56And when Luka went out, which we'll get to in a sec,
26:58I was like sneaky concerned that the ball would therefore
27:01go through Kyrie, who was way more effective
27:03offensively at that point.
27:04And that could be a problem.
27:05And that we wouldn't have anyone to go at
27:07on the other end of the court,
27:08as far as Luka and all of his defensive deficiencies.
27:11And we touched on the Tillman difference as well,
27:14but on the Luka stuff, Spoonie, 27 points on 27 shots.
27:19He fouls out, his fouls got worse and worse
27:21as they went on as well.
27:22Like the last few, he was just grabbing dudes
27:24or like taking that dumb charge attempt
27:25because he just, he knows he can't stay in front of anybody
27:29and trying to take a charge when you have five fouls
27:32in a finals game is, it's fucking dumb.
27:35Like to put it simply, it's extremely dumb.
27:37Yeah.
27:38So what did you think of the Luka experience in this one?
27:41Like, how do you think it shifts the Luka narrative,
27:44if at all?
27:45Honestly, I'm frankly shocked how many people are talking
27:48like Luka has having some sort of all-time finals.
27:51Like he's been good.
27:52He's had one great half.
27:55And that was the first half of game two.
27:58And other than that, he's been like pretty good on offense,
28:02very good on offense and dog shit on defense.
28:06Like, I don't, can you even say he's been like
28:08a true positive in this series
28:11with the way he's just getting eviscerated
28:13on the defensive end?
28:14Yeah, yeah, probably.
28:16But man, it's not like some LeBron
28:20against the Golden State Warriors in, what was it, 2015
28:24when he had that absolutely absurd series
28:26and they lost in six, I think.
28:29It's not even close to anything like that.
28:31He's been pretty inefficient for the most part.
28:35Last night was absurdly inefficient
28:37and he was getting absolutely cooked on defense.
28:40Like his off-ball defense was so bad.
28:43I think it was Jalen one time,
28:44just like walked in front of him on a cut
28:47and got a wide open layup.
28:48And it's like, dude, this is it.
28:51This is your season.
28:52Like you need to win this game.
28:53How are you not dialed in right now off the ball?
28:56So I'm just shocked that the narrative
28:59has been so positive for Luka.
29:01But from what I'm seeing, it seems to have shifted
29:04with that performance last night.
29:06And he was like bitching about the refs.
29:07Like, dude, you fouled like 15 times in that game.
29:10It was insane what you were getting away with
29:13and still couldn't stop us.
29:15And you fouled out.
29:16Sorry, man.
29:16Like, don't take a charge at the three-point line
29:19against Jalen Brown in transition.
29:22That's insane.
29:24Well, I would say, Spoonie,
29:25your first mistake is not realizing this is on purpose.
29:28This is actually the math scheme, don't you know?
29:30The scheme is for Luka to be blowing by the end of the scheme.
29:33Guiding them to the rim.
29:35Anybody who knows ball knows that.
29:38But, you know, part of me, like,
29:40obviously I'm reveling in it
29:43as someone who has had to deal with Jason Tatum
29:46being called Tobias Harris for three years
29:48because of his finals performance two years ago.
29:51But also the other side of that coin is like,
29:54this is Tatum, this is, for Luka,
29:57it's Tatum's 2022 finals, right?
30:00Like, Mavs fans are saying a lot of what we said
30:03two years ago.
30:05Jordan didn't win by this age.
30:07You gotta go through your lumps.
30:09The only difference is,
30:11I don't really know if people are attributing
30:15the Mavs issues in this series to Luka's defense
30:18the way they did the Celtics issues to Tatum's offense,
30:22right?
30:22Like, Tatum's offense in that finals
30:25is as poor as Luka's defense is in this finals.
30:29The difference is, you know,
30:32it's harder to overcome poor defense
30:35when your opponent knows that they can just attack you
30:38every single time.
30:40I do think the narrative is starting to shift nationally,
30:44but people are still gonna call him a top three MVP.
30:47People are still gonna, you know, like,
30:49as a Celtics fan, you're gonna have to win a ring
30:52before I put you ahead of Jason Tatum on any sort of list
30:56because to win a title,
30:57we're seeing you need to play both ends of the floor.
31:00Like, I think if we're gonna be talking
31:01about these player rankings, that has to matter.
31:05So you're even hearing now, like, you know,
31:07Rosillo, people who I, you know, respect is like,
31:10oh, it's not really gonna change my opinion of,
31:12you know, where Tatum is ranked.
31:14Well, why isn't it?
31:15Because this is the time to show
31:18what it takes to win a title.
31:20And if Tatum was being knocked for his offense
31:23and his struggles two years ago,
31:26I think the same has to be true for Joel Embiid
31:29not getting past the second round.
31:31The same has to be true for Luka.
31:33Like, people were discrediting Giannis as a player
31:36when they were debating.
31:38It's like, he's a two-way guy
31:39that dropped 50 in a closeout game.
31:41So I think it's gonna start to shift.
31:45And the only way he's gonna get over that
31:47is what Tatum is doing now and finally winning a ring.
31:51Yeah.
31:52Well, we see the off season
31:53of like Luka underwater workouts
31:55and like just insane conditioning
31:56where he comes back completely like jacked and vascular.
32:00We're gonna see him smoking Luka, have him be like,
32:02you know, he doesn't,
32:03he's still gonna get his 350 million extension.
32:06Like, I just, but I think Mavs fans are hoping for it.
32:11But I just think like, if it hasn't happened,
32:13it's not like Tatum and Brown started training
32:16or working out after their finals loss.
32:19That was like, if it hasn't happened by now,
32:21I think this is just who he is.
32:23Yeah.
32:23Yeah, yeah.
32:24And I mean, this series, right,
32:26is like the microcosm of what it means to build a team.
32:31Like two way players fucking matter,
32:35especially in the playoffs where your strengths
32:38are important, but far more important
32:40is what weaknesses do you have?
32:42And the fact that you have to play Luka Doncic 42 minutes.
32:46And the fact that every time down in the court
32:49when we have the ball, we are looking to attack him
32:52is something that is really difficult to build around.
32:56And I just feel like people still do not grasp
32:59how important it is that Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum
33:02are borderline elite defensive players.
33:05Their offense doesn't have to be at Luka's level
33:08because they don't give it back on the other end.
33:10In fact, they have a positive impact on the other end.
33:13And frankly, I don't think people are talking
33:14about Jalen Brown's defense enough for this series
33:17and this entire playoff run.
33:18Luka is like running away from him when he has the ball.
33:22Like he's like, like three, four screen,
33:25please get this psycho off of me
33:28because I can do nothing when Jalen Brown is on me.
33:30So I think this is just like a pretty clear lesson
33:34in like how you build teams is so much,
33:38how you build successful teams is so much different
33:40than what we value when we're ranking players.
33:44Like the fact people have Joel Embiid over Jason Tatum
33:47in their player rankings is fucking nuts, man.
33:50He's never been out of the second round.
33:51He gets tired in the second round of the playoffs.
33:56Like he literally is physically incapable of playing.
33:58How is he better than Jason Tatum or Jalen Brown, frankly?
34:02I just think you really see the difference in,
34:06you know, the teams that have won.
34:09It starts at the top, right?
34:10Especially on the defensive end, right?
34:12Steph Curry was a poor-ish defender early in his career.
34:16He, you know, he's not making all NBA defense,
34:18but he is a passable,
34:20he's worked his way into a passable defender, right?
34:23You look at, you know, even Jokic,
34:26he was a disaster, found ways to lock in.
34:29And then you had Aaron Gordon and KCP and Jamal Moore.
34:31Like when your best players set that tone,
34:35and if they're willing to do the sacrifice
34:37and play that way,
34:38there's no excuse for anyone down the line to not do that.
34:42And I think it was Tatum who said it after the game,
34:46nobody on the floor wants to be the weak link
34:48on this defense.
34:49And then in theory, your weak link of Peyton Pritchard,
34:53because he's small, is a dog and he's in your grill.
34:57So like his issues aren't because of a lack of effort
35:00or lack of defense.
35:01It's just, he's too short.
35:03So it's like, even when you're a worst player,
35:05you have Sam Houser locking up Luka Doncic.
35:07Like nobody on earth, except for us who watch him,
35:10would ever imagine that that could be possible.
35:13And I think that's because
35:14he doesn't want to be the weak link.
35:17Tillman comes in after not playing,
35:19immediately is getting you stops on the defensive end.
35:22Those are people who I think understand there's a standard
35:26and your standard always starts with your two best players.
35:29And that I think is what I love most about Tatum and Brown
35:32is they've established themselves as defenders first
35:35and it doesn't get talked about,
35:37but when you watch them play,
35:39the foundation of their defense
35:41starts with their two best players.
35:43Yeah, and I think Pritchard and Houser
35:44are a good indicator that the two way aspect of the game,
35:48the defense and offense,
35:49it's not limited to one's physical abilities
35:52and capacity.
35:53Like it's somewhat, to some degree,
35:54a mindset thing as well,
35:56where Pritchard, smallest guy on the court in this series
35:59and throughout the playoffs.
36:00And yet we've seen multiple possessions of him.
36:02I don't think I'm even overdoing it by using this term,
36:04like locking up Luka Doncic a couple of times last night,
36:07Houser as well.
36:08And like they could never be celebrated
36:10for their underwater workouts,
36:11their insane physical feats.
36:13And yet here they are locking up
36:15what was said to be before this series,
36:17maybe the best player in the world right now.
36:20So it's mindset along with physicality
36:22and Joe Titty, our New Zealand correspondent,
36:25this podcast's feet on the ground in New Zealand,
36:27which is really important when you're doing a podcast
36:29about the Boston Celtics.
36:30He had a great point in our discord earlier
36:32on the value of elite two way plays.
36:35He essentially said like his way of phrasing it was
36:37one plus one is greater than five minus three.
36:41As if to say like a lack of weakness
36:43is better than a massive strength and a massive weakness,
36:47which is kind of what the Mavs have in Luka.
36:49Like a lack of weaknesses is actually a super strength
36:53in itself, which I think was a really good sort
36:55of evaluation and comparison of the two teams.
36:57So well done, Joe.
36:59Spoonie, you put this in the run sheet,
37:00so maybe I should throw it to you,
37:01but just a word on the discourse again,
37:05we have to do this like every show now,
37:06on the national narratives around this team
37:10and how this is shifting.
37:11Like I know I didn't get through all
37:13of the mainstream pods after last night,
37:15but like I know Zach Lowe kind of refused
37:19to just fully acknowledge the Celtics greatness,
37:21which is kind of bizarre at this point.
37:23What do you think about that?
37:25And it's like, if you want to argue,
37:27they're not one of the greatest teams of all time,
37:29sure, whatever.
37:30Like that's a high bar.
37:32Yeah, right.
37:32That's fine.
37:33But at least I'll hear that argument,
37:36but I just don't understand why the Bucs were celebrated
37:42when they were on their way to winning the title.
37:44This is amazing.
37:46The Bucs are going to break through.
37:48We had six years of all anybody ever talked about
37:52was how awesome the Warriors were and how great they were.
37:56Why do people seem disappointed that the Celtics,
37:58like you're supposed to be an objective national analyst.
38:03It's all of them seemingly too,
38:05obviously other than Simmons, but-
38:07Even him and Russillo are like-
38:10Yeah, Russillo too, Russillo's a big one.
38:13Why do they fucking hate this team?
38:16They play team basketball.
38:18They move the ball, they play beautiful offense,
38:21and they defend like bastards, man.
38:24They play so hard.
38:26I just do not understand conceptually what it is
38:29that makes this team so hateable.
38:32Yeah, and to stay on the maturity theme,
38:36early in the playoffs, it triggered me.
38:39I ate the trash.
38:40We talked about it.
38:43I had regressed.
38:44They won a couple rounds.
38:45I started to care a little, little less.
38:48One win away from the final, I don't give a single fuck.
38:51Don't like my team, I don't care.
38:53I'm quite caring.
38:54It does not matter to me because anything you say,
38:58I'm going to look over and I'm going to see a banner
39:00and it's not going to matter.
39:01So I don't need the Lowe's or the Hoop Collective.
39:06I don't need their validation
39:07because I know what I've been watching since October.
39:10And that is not a feeling I had two years ago.
39:14I needed that public acknowledgement.
39:18We've waited 16 years.
39:19I've seen one title in my fricking life.
39:21Yeah.
39:22I just, I don't care.
39:23I'm past the point of needing their validation.
39:26Yeah, absolutely.
39:27I think it'll fuel the eventual elation of winning a title
39:30where if everyone was just evaluating this team
39:33for who they are and what they are all season long,
39:36then the title at this point would feel more expected
39:39rather than deserved.
39:40And there wouldn't be this sort of underdog narrative
39:42that's kind of being manufactured inadvertently
39:45by the media.
39:46But now that we're here on the cusp
39:48and the media have been pulling these bullshit lines
39:51all season, it kind of feels more exciting
39:53and more, there's like a lowered expectation.
39:56And so now if, and when we get it,
39:58it's going to feel like we're kind of sticking it to the man
40:00for lack of a better term.
40:01So it just makes the eventual win more exciting.
40:04And you know, I'm going to have to remind myself
40:06not to get upset when I hear all these same people talk
40:09about, oh, they were the best team all year.
40:11Of course they were going to win the title.
40:13I know you picked the Mavs in five.
40:15You don't have to lie to me.
40:16It's on video.
40:17So I just have to remind myself that it just does not matter
40:21because you know it's going to come.
40:23And it's just so predictable now.
40:25And I think that's helped me a lot too,
40:26is like, I know they're going to pit Jason
40:29and Jalen against each other.
40:31I know they're not going to give Missoula the credit.
40:34I know they're going to say it's a boring finals
40:36and there was no competition.
40:37It doesn't matter.
40:38I'm going to look up and they're going to have a banner
40:40and it's going to be there forever.
40:42And we all, all of us on the internet, us three,
40:45we all become Teflon for the rest of our lives.
40:48Goddamn right.
40:49That is all that I care about.
40:51I'm Teflon and you are Teflon forever.
40:55Have you guys ever seen the sketch show
40:56that Mitchell and Webb look?
40:58It's British.
40:59There's a sketch there where they're dressed
41:01as German World War II soldiers
41:03and they're looking at each other's uniforms
41:05and they're like, we have skulls on our helmets.
41:09Are we the bad guys?
41:10And it's like, I feel like,
41:11I think we might be the bad guys
41:13and the bad guys sometimes win
41:15and nobody wants to see the bad guy win
41:17except the bad guys.
41:19And I will fucking own that.
41:20Whatever.
41:21We can be the bad guys.
41:22I'm going to celebrate the shit out of that.
41:24It's just, it's just insane that you are the bad guy
41:28for playing beautiful basketball.
41:30Right.
41:31Building your team the right way,
41:33for going through like every single thing people say
41:36they want out of sports and teams and championships
41:39and style is what the Celtics are doing.
41:42And I think if it was, you know, the thunder or, you know,
41:46I think part of it is the Celtics factor
41:49because when you just look objectively, they're unselfish.
41:52They want for one another.
41:54There's no ego.
41:56It's like, it's literally every sports cliche.
41:59They've checked that box.
42:00And even still, it's like, people have an issue with it.
42:03And now all you can do is just laugh.
42:06People hate the Celtics
42:07and it's just going to make everything
42:08that much more enjoyable in the end,
42:10if and when we get there.
42:11Quick ad break here.
42:12They're really going to hate you if they go back to back.
42:14I'll tell you that much.
42:15Oh yeah.
42:16Yeah. I mean, we can talk about that soon as well.
42:18Quick ad break here.
42:19We've got to pay the bills
42:20and we'll wrap up the show talking about game four.
42:22The NBA finals begin June 6th.
42:24And instead of working like I should be
42:26or putting any effort into preparing for the next podcast,
42:28I'm sitting around daydreaming about getting myself
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43:51Greeny, I don't know if you saw Christas Porzingis
43:54working out post-practice
43:55once they let the media into the arena.
43:58How does that, I guess that's like a good entry point
44:00to talking about game four.
44:01How does that color your expectations
44:03and confidence heading into game four?
44:05So I have a theory on this
44:07because it's not the first time
44:10the Twitter account has given us a little,
44:14you know, dose of Porzingis porn, right?
44:17Like they're tweeting some suspicious things
44:19and then he eventually came back.
44:21I feel like you can't get clearance to tweak that
44:24if he's gonna be called out.
44:25If they're gonna rule him out, don't even show it
44:28because what good does that do?
44:31Whether or not he should play?
44:34I think you have him active and in uniform
44:37but you don't put him in the rotation right away.
44:39Let him come in if it's a blowout
44:42just so he can get, you know, like a spot up three.
44:44But I think, you know, you have him active
44:47but I wouldn't hate if they kept the same rotation yesterday
44:52I'll just be really disappointed if I had to watch him
44:55cause you know, those standstill post-up jumpers
44:58that's all I want from him.
44:59Go on, like just jog to the free throw line
45:01and take a pull up and then come out, that's it.
45:04So I'll be really sad if we got, you know
45:07enough of the Porzingis edging and just, you know
45:10let us see it.
45:11But I also understand if it's like, listen
45:14it's a replication of the Pacers series.
45:17Like they're up 3-0, they don't need it.
45:19So maybe if you lose game four
45:21then that means they'll bring them back for game five.
45:24So I'd be comfortable with whatever they do.
45:27I just love seeing them play and, you know
45:29I feel so bad for him that I hope he gets out there.
45:32Yeah, it's almost like the Paul Pierce's last game
45:35in the garden where he got that one last three up.
45:38Isaiah let him take the three game.
45:41Yes, it's like the same idea.
45:43But the one thing I'll say Z Gamer says
45:45I wouldn't play Porzingis unless it's a blowout
45:48let him soak in some on-court glory.
45:51As long as that doesn't come at the expense
45:53of Al Horford soaking in some on-court glory.
45:56I'm fine with that.
45:58Al has to be out there when the buzzer sounds, man.
46:00Assuming like knock on wood, this is not over.
46:03I think part of me feels like, are the Mavs dead?
46:07Like that was such a disheartening way to lose that game.
46:10We're crawling all the way back.
46:12Yeah, cancel practice.
46:13I don't know if you heard kids, I mean
46:15kids already talking about how you have to learn
46:17from failure and losses.
46:19It's like, bro, the series isn't over yet.
46:22And I'm not ruling out a Kyrie quit factor
46:25so he doesn't have to lose the title
46:27in Boston in game five.
46:29He may not even want to get home.
46:31Oh, I love that.
46:31Yeah, love that.
46:33Yeah, that's going to help me sleep tonight.
46:34Thanks.
46:35Thanks Greeny.
46:36I think strategy wise for, I mean, you can't even call this
46:39how dare I say that I am capable of strategy talk
46:42but I think the Mavs have to bum away from three
46:46at this point, like they've reached that juncture
46:48in the series.
46:49And part of that run last night
46:51in the fourth quarter was they just started jacking threes.
46:53We were saying it in the playback spoon.
46:55Here they come, they're just going to start.
46:56It's their last hope.
46:57They're just going to start bombing away.
46:58And they hit because they're at home
47:00and their role players like PJ Washington got one or two.
47:03They hit at a higher clip at home.
47:05And I think that that's just the point
47:07that they've reached where their only hope is to buy
47:10into like that heat strategy of like, the only way
47:12we're going to beat these guys is to like chuck them
47:14from deep and pray that they go in.
47:16And like, we're already doing that.
47:18We've won that math game against the Mavs every game so far.
47:21So why wouldn't you pull out that as a last vestige
47:25of trying to get a victory against this team?
47:28We've held them under a hundred
47:30for three straight games now.
47:31Like, and we've only scored in the low hundreds ourselves.
47:34It's not like we're putting up these huge numbers.
47:36So if you can just play the math game yourself
47:39from a Mavs perspective and try and throw
47:42up a bunch of points yourself
47:43that's probably your best chance, right?
47:45Yeah. And I mean, I feel like we've talked
47:47about that being their approach before
47:48or every one of these games.
47:51I mean, they only took 25 last night.
47:53I just, again, Jason Kidd
47:55have you watched a single Celtics game in any of their 99?
47:59You can't beat them trading twos for threes.
48:02It's just not, you can't outrun the math.
48:05And the Celtics, I mean, they were what?
48:07Plus 27 in game one or game two.
48:10They were plus 24, I think last night.
48:13They lost the points in the paint battle by 16
48:16and it didn't matter because of the three point difference.
48:18And I think where they had the success
48:21wasn't so much the Lucas spamming, pull up threes.
48:26It was their own version of driving kick
48:28getting your role players clean looks.
48:31If this isn't a game where they're taking 35 to 43s
48:35they're going to lose by 20 plus
48:36because I expect the Celtics to go.
48:41This is the, we're going to bomb away
48:43in the knockout punch early and often.
48:45And I think they're due for,
48:47they haven't had their 23 point made game yet.
48:51I think this is the game where you're going to see them
48:54at least attempt to hit that number.
48:56And if the Mavs are just going to drive Luca
48:58into the paint for pull up floaters
49:00they're going to get run out of the gym.
49:02Yeah, that's why the defense that J Kidd went with
49:07in game three was kind of confounding to me is like
49:10you're just letting us generate open threes.
49:12That's insanity.
49:13So I wonder if he'll finally budge.
49:15I wonder if he'll finally blink and sell out on stopping us.
49:18But with the way we're blowing by Luca
49:20and to a lesser extent, posting up Kyrie,
49:23like if you don't have that help at the rim
49:25Tatum and Brown are just going to waltz
49:27to the rim all game long
49:28and they're not going to be difficult finishes.
49:31So, but it goes back to the math.
49:33You just hope you can contest enough of those layups
49:36limit the Celtics from three and then you bomb away.
49:39And then maybe, you know, you can steal one
49:42but it seems like they're not going to do that.
49:45It seems like they're going to dare us to shoot.
49:47And they are going to do the Luca thing.
49:49It seems like they're, they're praying for the, you know
49:52eight of 41 for the Celtics.
49:55And then they're going to beat you with points in the paint.
49:57But-
49:58That happened in game two.
49:59Right.
50:00Even if that happens, you still lost.
50:03So it's like, even your ideal strategy was not successful.
50:07I just, again, I just do not under
50:09it's really reminiscent of the 2022 finals.
50:13The Celtics couldn't score a hundred points
50:15to save their lives.
50:17And it wasn't like the Warriors were putting up 120.
50:19So it's like the Celtics haven't even played
50:23all that well offensively
50:25but the sheer presence of Missoula ball.
50:28Like for me, this is one of the most validating parts
50:30of this entire playoff run is like
50:33we are seeing Joe's philosophy be proven correct
50:37every single game in these finals.
50:39And it's like, people can't handle it.
50:43That's your problem because the dude is 25 and 11
50:46or 26 and 11 in his Celtics playoff career.
50:50His philosophy works in the NBA in 2024.
50:54And if you don't play it
50:55like think of the games that they've lost
50:57the Heat bombed away from three in game two
51:00the Cavs bombed away from three in game two.
51:03That is the only way you are going to beat this team
51:06let alone once, I mean, forget four times
51:09you have to, have to, have to
51:11at least keep pace with them from a volume perspective.
51:14And if you don't, there's too many good shooters
51:16and it's too infrequent
51:18that they're going to shoot 25% as a team.
51:21It's just, it's math.
51:23It's so great that that's our most vulnerable
51:25like a way to be attacked is there's
51:27there's such an element of luck and like hope
51:29like let's just bang a bunch of threes
51:30and hope that we're lucky.
51:32And they go in as opposed to like
51:33let's control this element of the game
51:35that we can use to our advantage.
51:36Like they just don't really have that ability against us.
51:39So it goes full circle going back
51:41to what we started this podcast talking
51:43about this sudden confidence and reassurance
51:46in the team executing and getting it done
51:48compared to years past.
51:49And so talking about game four
51:51like I'm pretty confident that I'll get this thing done.
51:53You really get the sense that they just want to
51:55wrap this thing up and not play any extra games
51:57and not leave anything to chance.
51:59And like looking at the betting odds, they're dead even.
52:01I think yesterday, right after game three
52:03the Mavs were slight favorites.
52:05Now the line is one.
52:06Vegas is just going like, we don't fucking know.
52:08Maybe the Celtics will sweep them.
52:10Yeah, I'm starting to feel more confident
52:12than I kind of ever have.
52:14And maybe I need to catch myself
52:15but that's just kind of the natural inclination
52:17I've got right now, Greeny.
52:18I think last night is what proved to you to feel that way
52:23because that was the one they had to take.
52:25And that, you know, how good they've been on the road
52:28they've already closed out a sweep on the road.
52:31I just think this is their time and we've been saying it
52:35and we're seeing it.
52:36And when it's your time, you close out titles on the road.
52:40We saw it with the Warriors.
52:42You know, I can't remember
52:44where did the Nuggets won it at home, but you know, it's.
52:47The Bucs, I think were on the.
52:49The Bucs, because they were down.
52:52Yeah, because.
52:52They were hunts.
52:53Yeah, they were.
52:54Yeah, anyway, but the point is it's like.
52:56My bad.
52:57We've seen, we've seen Tatum and Brown
53:00enough to know they taste it.
53:03They know it's right there.
53:04They know what it means for their legacy.
53:07I think they also know because of the run last year
53:10where they were a sprained ankle away from blowing it.
53:13They know what can happen if you stop one of these games
53:17because then you're a sprained ankle away
53:18from dropping a second.
53:20Then you get a shooting variance game
53:22and now you're in a game seven.
53:24I will be very surprised.
53:25Like it's almost impossible to have back-to-back sweeps.
53:28Nobody in NBA history has swept both the conference finals
53:33and the finals.
53:35I just feel like the Mavs are ready to quit.
53:37And if you punch them first, you're gonna like,
53:40it might be close, but I think by the end of it,
53:42we're gonna have a game six of 2008
53:45where they're up 30, 40 points.
53:48Yeah, it's like goes back to the playoff scars, right?
53:50The Celtics were almost the team that did it first
53:54to come back from 3-0 down,
53:56which gives me a lot of confidence.
53:57Like you were saying, Ben, is like,
53:59they know they don't wanna be the team
54:02that gives up a 3-0 lead first.
54:04And I think they're gonna come out absolutely firing.
54:07They can smell it, man.
54:08It's in sight.
54:09The fucking Larry O'Brien will be in the building, bro.
54:13Right, they're gonna be taping off the locker rooms.
54:16Like, and that's why it's sick to like,
54:19when the conference finals trophy was in the building,
54:22we saw this team find a way to get it done.
54:25I have to imagine that after this entire season
54:29and everything that they've gone through
54:32to be in this position,
54:33you've already absorbed the 61 point,
54:3762 point Luka Kyrie game.
54:40You've survived the poor shooting game on your side.
54:43Like play to your standard
54:45and you're gonna win the NBA title.
54:47Like you don't have to overachieve.
54:49You don't have to do something that's unheard of
54:51to win the title.
54:52Play to your level and you are a legend
54:55for the rest of your life.
54:57If that doesn't motivate you enough
54:59to go out and be the harder playing team for 48 minutes,
55:02like what are we doing?
55:04I just-
55:04You don't deserve it.
55:05We've seen too much to not think
55:08that that's how they're approaching it.
55:10Absolutely.
55:11And I think they genuinely feel that way as well.
55:12So I am excited.
55:14I will not be able to sleep until they get it done,
55:17at which point I'll have the best sleep of my life
55:20the day after they get this done.
55:21But let's wrap up on this very quickly.
55:23We've got a couple of minutes here before we need to go.
55:25CLNS's Bobby Manning asked a question to Jalen Brown
55:30during the finals media day today.
55:32And just one of those cases
55:33where you ask a pretty simple question
55:35and you get an absolute banger of an anecdote,
55:37in this case from Jalen Brown,
55:39talking about Danny Ainge calling him,
55:41asking about drafting Jason Tatum before the 2017 draft.
55:46Danny calls me and he asked me,
55:48how do you feel about Jason Tatum?
55:51And I remember I've had so many,
55:55I played with him at camps, top 100 camp.
55:58He was my roommate at the KD Elite Camp.
56:02We played on the same team in so many different,
56:05the Under Armour, All-American game,
56:08we were roommates again.
56:10So it was like, you know,
56:12I had a lot of experience with him
56:14and I played with him on the same team.
56:15There was a lot of respect.
56:16So I said, like, I think it's a great choice.
56:21And fast forward from there,
56:24you know, we've been winning ever since.
56:28What a line to end it, dude.
56:30We've been winning ever since, baby.
56:32I should not stand up on camera.
56:33I think this is where I-
56:36It's a family show.
56:37Yeah.
56:38It's just, tough day for the Tatum and Brown
56:41don't like each other crowd.
56:43If, you know, it's just,
56:45it's just what you want to hear, I think,
56:47as a fan right now.
56:48It's just, it's top notch.
56:51How have we not heard that before?
56:53Yeah.
56:54Like, how has that not come out before
56:56was kind of what I was thinking when I listened to it.
56:58But I don't know, man.
57:00It just feels like destiny,
57:03like fate or something intervened
57:06with the way they're both a J.
57:09Like, that is so wild
57:10that their names are both spelt with J-A-Y.
57:13You know what it is?
57:16You know what it is?
57:16You know that like viral photo of Jokic
57:19when he's like a two-year-old
57:21and he's wearing a Denver Nuggets sweatshirt in Serbia.
57:25This is our version of that.
57:27That's that serendipitous, you know,
57:30it was meant to be,
57:31and it was written in the stars, you know,
57:33that these two would not only be on the team together,
57:37but they would be the ones.
57:38It was, it didn't happen until both of them figured it out
57:43and it brought the team to the promised land.
57:44Together.
57:45Jesus Christ.
57:46That's like, I'm sweating right now.
57:49Yeah, and like, what,
57:50this guy's going to get possibly finals MVP.
57:52And we find out he gave the Tatum draft pick
57:55his stamp of approval before it all went down,
57:58shifting everything, heading into the direction,
58:00ending up where we're at now.
58:01That's an incredible narrative.
58:03Yeah, and I don't even care if he's full of shit.
58:05If he's just doing the wick gross pick
58:07of just taking credit for everything,
58:09it's an awesome story that I'm willing to subscribe to.
58:12So it works either way.
58:14He's going full LeBron.
58:16Yeah.
58:17It's like, I knew Tatum was going to win.
58:18I already knew that.
58:19Yeah.
58:20I don't care.
58:21That's great.
58:22We love it, Jalen.
58:23Greeny, we appreciate the hustle, man.
58:24You keep coming on the show and the Celtics keep winning.
58:26This was super fun, man.
58:27Thanks for coming on.
58:28Oh, listen, if they win, we're doing a,
58:30we're doing a victory pod.
58:31I'm going to bully my way onto this pod one last time.
58:34One more time, I should say.
58:35Absolutely.
58:36Love to have you.
58:37The door's always open.
58:38You can find all of Greeny's stuff
58:39over at barstoolsports.com.
58:41And of course on Twitter at Stool Greeny.
58:43That's going to do it for this one.
58:44We'll be back here live on YouTube
58:45immediately after game four tomorrow,
58:47perhaps to react to a title.
58:49Who knows?
58:49Please like and subscribe.
58:51All that good stuff.
58:52Greeny, Spoony, love your work, guys.
58:53Until next time, go Celts.
58:55I love the Celtics!