Back in May Rosalind took a trip to Speyside to witness some of the celebrations to mark the 200th anniversary of The Macallan. As part of these celebrations they undertook an extraordinary collaboration with Cirque du Soleil. It would appear that more and more often these days whisky brands are going to extreme lengths to market and promote their products. Macallan has certainly become a part of the high end of the market so Rosalind set out to learn more about the celebrations and whether the industry is being changed by this drive to create luxury lifestyle products and more and more elaborate collaborations.
First up she spoke to Ruth Wylie who is Global Experiential Lead at Macallan who tells her about the celebrations which are afoot and the importance that nature plays for the distillery. She also chatted to Marie-Hélène Delage, Creative Director at Cirque Du Soleil about how they developed their show with Macallan.
Finally, Rosalind wanted to speak to a whisky expert about recent changes in the whisky market and how this is affecting sales and availability of certain brands. Mark Littler, Whisky Broker and Market Analyst, talked to Rosalind about the significant changes that have taken place since 2015 and how collaborations like this one are becoming more the norm for those interested in investing in whisky. It's a fascinating listen and a subject matter no doubt we'll be returning to again and again.
First up she spoke to Ruth Wylie who is Global Experiential Lead at Macallan who tells her about the celebrations which are afoot and the importance that nature plays for the distillery. She also chatted to Marie-Hélène Delage, Creative Director at Cirque Du Soleil about how they developed their show with Macallan.
Finally, Rosalind wanted to speak to a whisky expert about recent changes in the whisky market and how this is affecting sales and availability of certain brands. Mark Littler, Whisky Broker and Market Analyst, talked to Rosalind about the significant changes that have taken place since 2015 and how collaborations like this one are becoming more the norm for those interested in investing in whisky. It's a fascinating listen and a subject matter no doubt we'll be returning to again and again.
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LifestyleTranscript
00:00Hello and welcome to Scran, the podcast passionate about the Scottish food and drink scene.
00:09I'm your host, Ros and Erskine, and back in May I took a trip to Speyside to witness
00:13some of the celebrations to mark the 200th anniversary of the Macallan.
00:18As part of these celebrations they undertook an extraordinary collaboration with Cirque
00:21du Soleil. It would appear that more and more often these days whisky brands are going to
00:26extreme lengths to market and promote their products. The Macallan has certainly become
00:31part of the high end of the market so I wanted to learn more about the celebrations and whether
00:35the industry is being changed by this drive to create luxury lifestyle products and more
00:40and more elaborate collaborations.
00:46First up I spoke to Ruth Wiley who is Global Experiential Lead at the Macallan. She tells
00:51me more about the 200th anniversary celebrations that are afoot and the importance that nature
00:55plays for the distillery. So much so that the collaboration they are hosting with Cirque
01:00du Soleil is a full on celebration of the ingredients and environment that creates this
01:04distinctive whisky.
01:09And then when you come into the building itself, the distillery, you have this rare opportunity
01:14I guess to time travel. You walk from Easter Elkie's house which was built in the 1700s
01:19which is the icon of our brand identity and you walk up the cut to the present and that
01:24present is this building here.
01:30I chatted to Marie-Hélène Delage, Creative Director at Cirque du Soleil about how they
01:34developed their show at the Macallan.
01:39And we wanted to be able to be inspired by Scottish culture, by the Highlands, by the
01:46Macallan and build a tell from the Highlands which is the story that we created for this
01:52experience.
01:56I wanted to speak to a whisky expert about recent changes in the whisky market and how
02:00this is affecting sales and availability of certain brands. Mark Littler is a whisky
02:05broker and market analyst and talked to me about the significant changes that have taken
02:09place since 2015 and how collaborations like this one are becoming more the norm for those
02:14interested in investing in whisky. It's a fascinating lesson and a subject matter I
02:19no doubt will be returning to again and again.
02:24There's a bit of a dichotomy, there's a bit of a like a polar split between like the drinkers
02:29and the investors and the drinkers all say that the investors and the collectors are bad and
02:35you know what I think that's probably quite an interesting topic to address because look
02:39I get it, prices are going up, what people were drinking for £100 10 years ago they're
02:45not getting anywhere near close to today but it's not just the people who are buying and
02:50investing and collecting these bottles fault you know they're reacting to products that
02:54are being put on the market by the brands.
03:00Here's my chat with Ruth, please excuse some noise in the background,
03:03there was a lot of activity happening during our visit.
03:06You guys are celebrating your 200th birthday, 200th anniversary,
03:09could you give us a slight potted history of the Macallan?
03:13Sure, 200 years, it's been a fascinating 200 years when you look back in the history
03:18of the various pioneers that we look back on so for this year we want to celebrate all that's
03:22gone before us. Our founding father I guess you would call him Alexander Reid in 1824
03:29and he was the one that started the Macallan family and he was the one that started the
03:34and he was the one that started the brand, the Macallan and then thereafter there were
03:39many pioneers that came after that from Roderick Kemp who very much responsible
03:44for the sherry seasoning part of the brand. He was a wine merchant who travelled to
03:49Hereth and who brought that element of aging your whiskey and sherry seasoned oak casks
03:55to Scotland here and we've stuck with those traditions I guess you would say since then.
04:00We've also had his daughter who was very much part of her history Janet Harbison who
04:06took the distillery during the wartime very much looking after the local community and keeping
04:10things going and very unique at that point that she decided not to sell the distillery but to
04:16keep it and to again hold on to the traditions and the methods of those who'd gone before so
04:21the pioneers before and then moving further into the history I guess coming back up to the 1980s
04:28when that's when really we had Alan Sheah who took the helm there. Alan Sheah who I guess you'd
04:35see he saw the Macallan through the eyes of a film and he was the pioneer who really brought
04:40that level of creativity to Macallan and that again something that we've continued into to
04:45this day that continuous innovation creativity and brings us really up to our 200 years very
04:52potted history for sure but yeah many many pioneers and when you're at this point in your
04:59celebration or in your anniversary it's you do look back you reflect on what brought us to this
05:05point and what the people were that came before us but it's also about really looking to the future
05:10it's about what what's the legacy that we leave behind here for the next 200 years and how do we
05:16continue the legacy of those people. One of the main things you're doing is the Cirque du Soleil event
05:21so how did all that come about? Really through conversation we met with them a few years ago we
05:26we were we were known for collaborations and we're always obsessed with quality and making sure that
05:32we work with people who've got the same values the same beliefs as us. So we had a conversation with
05:36them a few years ago and then really learned very quickly that we did have this shared belief and
05:44shared passion around protecting nature about nature being really a big part of our brand DNA
05:50for both brands and at that point we we knew we were going to be 200 years and we wanted to do
05:56something really special to mark that moment and that's when we started to work really closely with
06:01them to create a unique story a unique experience never been done before by Cirque either the type
06:08of experience that we've got here at the McAllen Estate and we brought them up to the estate late
06:122022 to immerse themselves in our world for them to understand why nature was so important for us to
06:19experience themselves the 485 acres of land that we have here the importance of
06:26agriculture farming to us as a brand and really let them see who we are as people and as a business
06:33and then the same for us we were able to go and immerse ourselves in their world and understand
06:37their beliefs how they work who they work with the people and then together we created this
06:44unique and wonderful story that we're excited to be sharing with the world. So for anyone that's
06:49never been here before obviously people have heard of McAllen this distillery itself was quite
06:54groundbreaking when it opened as well so can you kind of give us an idea of what to expect if people
06:58have never visited? When you come to the McAllen I guess you come into Speyside, Speyside is home
07:04to many many many distilleries but when you come into the McAllen you come into nature but then you
07:10come into a building that has been built into the landscape not traditional looking not quite
07:16very much built into the landscape you have to discover it you have to come in and find it
07:21and then when you come into the building itself the distillery you have this rare opportunity I
07:26guess to time travel you walk from Easter Elkie's house which was built in the 1700s which is the
07:32icon of our brand identity and you walk up the cut to the present and that present is this building
07:38here you come into the building you'll see your jewel wall which has a history through product
07:44there are various experiences which are this year which talk to our 200 year history then you leave
07:52focused on the future because everything that's made in the still upstairs is for the future so
07:57every day we talk about the fact that we are time traveling so if you consume a McAllen 12 year old
08:02whiskey that was obviously made 12 years ago and how time changes everything that's produced
08:08upstairs will be consumed for somebody in the future 12, 30, 40 years time we don't know
08:14and that's what's really exciting about coming into the McAllen you're surrounded by nature
08:19you're surrounded by plants over 600 species of tree you'll see hares jumping around we're home
08:27to many protected species and we also have the river spay that runs through our estate so we've
08:32got 1.9 miles of the river spay runs through our estate so that's again really important for us
08:38to protect that area to protect the fish and the ecosystem around the river and I think for anyone
08:44who just knows the whiskey the nature element might be a slight surprise because obviously
08:49the headlines for McAllen are you know million pound bottles and auctions and you know investment
08:53but that side of it's maybe not as well known would you agree? I think it depends those are the
08:59headlines that people read absolutely but what that does that allows people to become interested
09:05in the brand and wonder why is that and then what we like to explain to people is this is around
09:12these pioneers that went before us us sticking with the craftsmanship our obsession with
09:16craftsmanship our unwavering commitment to the nature that's around us to the processes and the
09:22craft that we do. And how long have you been here? Well I've actually worked on the McAllen brand for
09:27almost 20 years but in various different roles so I used to work in the UK team and I was part
09:32of the distributor there where we were more looking at the consumption and the selling of
09:37McAllen and for the last seven years I've worked in the global team for the McAllen and I head up
09:43the experiential part of the business which sits within our creative team and have watched the
09:49brand evolve in 20 years I've watched the brand be particularly for I guess in the UK market
09:57which is where I worked originally I've watched it be relatively small scale always quality was
10:03always its key thing because they never compromised on any quality flavour profile but to watch it
10:08grow and change over the last 20 years and to be here and amongst it now is actually a real honour
10:13and privilege for me to be part of this exciting brand but the industry as a whole. Obviously this
10:19is what you're working on just now but further on down the line do you have any other future plans
10:24for the anniversary or just in general? I mean it's a year of celebration that's what we wanted
10:29to do we focused on being 200 years young and not 200 years old 200 years young gives us that
10:35opportunity to focus on the future we started the year with the launch of Tales of the McAllen which
10:40is all about Alexander Reid we've moved into this kind of key moment in our celebrations where we
10:46celebrate the nature of the estate and the nature that has been with us as a brand as I say for
10:53for 200 years and this is a real moment in time for us this is a kind of culmination of celebration
11:00we still got a lot of exciting things to come this year we've also you know revealed a new
11:05identity this year as well as part of our 200 year celebration and there are several more exciting
11:12product launches and experiences to come throughout the rest of 2024. Thank you very much for your time
11:26So we're here backstage in what was a Dunnage warehouse which now looks like an aircraft
11:31hangar that's full of not full of clothes but there's people there's clothes there's
11:34sewing machines it's entirely different from what it normally is could you just talk me through
11:40how all this came about and the process that you went through to come up with this story?
11:45So a few months ago the McAllen reached out to Cirque du Soleil they wanted to create an event
11:53an exclusive special unique event for their guests to celebrate the 200 years they asked us if we
12:00would be interested to to join in and we said yes we were really excited we flew to the McAllen
12:08estate walked around discover understand what the McAllen was I would say all about from his history
12:17to what it is today and they explained to us their their vision also about the 200 years where
12:23they wanted to celebrate the 200 years that just passed but also the 200 years that were coming
12:29forward and one thing that was really really dear to their art was the importance of nature
12:35and how it's it's becoming it is part of their values and we really got touched by that and
12:46we wanted to work with that that world and we wanted to be able to be inspired by Scottish
12:55culture by the highlands by the McAllen and build a tale from the highlands which is the story that
13:02we created for this experience so Cirque du Soleil spirit is about Ayla who's a colorist
13:09that is looking for that elusive red it reminds her of her father which is a whiskey maker
13:15color red being also very important to the McAllen but she's been really focused in her lab
13:22disconnected from nature and Davana the guardian of the highlands kind of breaks that bubble
13:29and whisk her away to the highlands where she's going to discover many different fantastic
13:36characters that are going to break her metaphorically it's going to bring her to come about her senses
13:44and reconnect with nature which is one of the most important thing to protect nature you get
13:50you need to reconnect with it same thing as has I walked along the river spay you know and I can
13:56hear the birds and I can hear the river it's when you do that that you also really want to protect
14:02it so it's a little bit how the storyline is becoming and how we got inspired by all those
14:08elements to create that journey for Ayla and just for anyone that doesn't know how does Cirque du Soleil
14:14come about and what is it? That's a very good question actually while the McAllen
14:20is celebrating their 200 years Cirque du Soleil this year is celebrating its 40 years it's not as
14:27long but for a small circus company that started 40 years ago in the province of Quebec and now
14:36being a global entertainment brand is quite amazing so it started has a small group of
14:45I would say saltine bank we say in French that were doing circus art and they started building
14:53this this amazing company taking on knowledge from a lot of different background in live performing
15:01arts and bringing it to the circus to bring a new flavor in the circus world and creating a more
15:08contemporary theatrical I would say offer and that's how Cirque du Soleil came about. Oh so I
15:15should say we can your bagpipes behind us I'm assuming that might be something to do with it
15:18I don't know what you're talking about of course that's part of the inspiration of Scottish culture
15:25and bringing those elements that connects this unique experience not only to the McAllen but
15:32where it stays in the world which is in the Scottish Highlands. I'm looking forward to it
15:38thank you very much. Thank you. So I'm now joined by Mark Littler we're here to talk a bit about
15:51McAllen and whisky investment in general. McAllen are celebrating 200 years for anyone that doesn't
15:58really know that much about them I'm sure they'll have heard about them because they've been in the
16:01news quite a lot recently and so could you give us a little bit of an overview about what makes
16:05McAllen so special to a lot of people. Yeah and before I do that I'll just sort of qualify
16:10investing really because you know my background originally was as an auctioneer like a traditional
16:16antiques auctioneer and you get people who invest in dinky toys and that doesn't necessarily mean
16:21that they've got bad intentions or something nasty like that it's just that they value an item for
16:26something that is perhaps past its original use purpose so for instance somebody collects dinky
16:31toys or model trains or anything or antique silver they see past the utility of it and that's the
16:36same with with whisky you know it's not just about what these whiskies taste like obviously that's
16:42very important but as we'll probably come to discuss a lot of these brands making products
16:47are way beyond what are realistically just there for utilitarian reasons or just for consumption and
16:54you know what you've just said about McAllen like their 200 year anniversary this year
16:58partnering with Cirque du Soleil and they've just released the McAllen Horizon
17:03you know a no-aid statement whisky for $50,000 now it's absolutely jaw-droppingly beautiful
17:10but is it a $50,000 whisky well probably not compared to every other whisky they've released
17:15but absolutely when you look at the craftsmanship and the work that's gone into it and I kind of
17:19think this is a that McAllen Horizon is perhaps a good indicator as to the direction of travel
17:27that the distillery is on it's now ultra premium it's luxury it's very few people in the world that
17:34can afford $50,000 for a no-aid statement whisky it's about the halo effect as well
17:40that those bottles have so I think personally I don't think we'll see too many more special
17:46releases from McAllen this year I think they've pretty much set their stand out with the Horizon
17:51really I think we'll probably see another red collection we'll probably see another folio
17:55and I can't really see much too much other than the Horizon that's really exciting coming from
18:01them this year to be fair. Just take us back to the start were they once quite a
18:07normal like brand as in like you could go out and buy them and enjoy them enjoy a drama McAllen I
18:12mean my hairdressers granny used to love McAllen and would have one every Hogmanay and now I feel
18:17like there's not many people are going to have a McAllen every Hogmanay just due to the sheer
18:21price of them so have they been accessible and they're now relatively like you say luxury?
18:26Yeah and I think that's just sort of their heritage as well it's probably greater than
18:31most other brands you know McAllen started thinking about releasing age statement single
18:37malts in the 1960s you know it was only 1963 that Glenn Moringy released the first single
18:44malt scotch whisky to the UK market or to the English market should we say so I said
18:48marketed outside of Scotland so in the 1960s McAllen I think it was under Peter Sheeak took
18:53the direction to start laying down stock to mature and then end of the 1970s this starts
19:00to become mature and it's you know McAllen have been advertising their single malt whisky as being
19:05the Rolls Royce of whisky from the end of the 1970s they've been doing it for a heck of a long
19:11time the partnerships and the collaborations that they've had for decades outstrip what most brands
19:18today have and you know in there it's in there only just sort of really starting to get started
19:24with a lot of their marketing a lot of these are the distilleries so they had a very keen eye to
19:28start positioning themselves as the premium brand and to offer products that were over and above
19:34just drinking for argument's sake that naturally comes with sort of price increases you know you're
19:40not going to buy a again you come back to the practicalities of things a 40% ABV McAllen is
19:46going to get you just as drunk just as quickly as a 40% Bells you know if we're really stripping
19:52this back like Marxism utilitarian value they're both going to get you inebriated at the same rate
19:57but it's there's so much more into this industry nowadays than just the drink if that makes sense
20:03yeah no it does we're talking but you've sort of touched on investment in terms of like people
20:07invest in things over and above their utilitarian value what are your thoughts on buying to drink
20:12versus buying to invest because it all seems to have gone slightly off the scale there's a bit
20:16of a dichotomy there's a bit of a like a polar split between like the drinkers and the investors
20:22and the drinkers all say that the investors and the collectors are bad and you know what i think
20:27that's probably quite an interesting topic to address because look i get it prices are going up
20:32the what people were drinking for 100 pounds 10 years ago they're not getting anywhere near close
20:38to today but it's not just the people who are buying and investing in collecting these bottles
20:44fault you know they're reacting to products that are being put on the market by the brands
20:49and this is as much of a trait as from the independent bottlers you know who say they're
20:53just for the drinkers mostly as it is for sort of like the big brands so like you look at
20:58you know limited editions does everything have to be a limited edition of course it's a limited
21:02edition like it's a 10 000 bottle release is a limited edition or a 200 bottle single cask is
21:07limited edition so the pushing of those single single malt i say that the limited edition nature
21:13of it is is kind of making it's kind of getting fomo you know like i don't want to miss out on
21:18this it's a limited number and stuff and then again you look at like the way that the the artwork and
21:24the presentation of these these bottles are now going so if you look at the very one extreme of
21:29the market and you look at mccallum for instance partnering with bentley partnering with lalique
21:33huge fantastic presentation boxes and bottles that do absolutely nothing for the you know flavor
21:40and profile of the whiskey now that's really overt if you look at the mccallum reach where
21:45you've got like bronze hands holding up bottles and stuff like that or the lalique series in these
21:50beautiful lalique crystal bottles but you can kind of draw that you can kind of like bring elements
21:58of that across over to the independent bottlers because there's a lot of independent bottlers now
22:03that are making very beautiful bottles of whiskey that have and they're using a lot of artwork
22:09collaborations for instance and i can again from like a design background i studied design and
22:13fine art at university and i love good design and i think it can really elevate a product but
22:21it's not elevating it beyond its use value it's just making it more commercial and more appealing
22:26and it's appealing to the visual senses rather than the taste senses and like if you want to
22:32look at probably the most utilitarian bottling on the market it's the springbank cage bottles
22:37you have to go to camp without town to buy them they've got a tiny little horrible label on them
22:42and it's almost like anti-commercial whiskey but nobody else is really doing that because
22:49everybody needs to sell their whiskey to make money and again if you look at the slowdown
22:53in the market that's happened recently probably over the last two years the market slowed
22:57significantly a lot of these independent bottles are not selling out their releases as quickly as
23:03as they were before the the distilleries themselves are not selling out their main
23:07releases as quickly as they were before because we've lost a significant amount of people with
23:12different motives like collecting or investing from the market but they were bringing money in
23:16you know what i mean so we have to sort of be careful when we weigh up this argument as to just
23:21define a category of people good or bad yes there are negative elements to it but just to say that
23:27it's all bad it is not really good and i think one of the best things about commercialism and
23:34we're in the west we're a capitalist consumerist society you can't get away from that is it's
23:39really well epitomized by the new trend in whiskey of putting a big heavy lump of glass at the bottom
23:44of a bottle and if you look between the weight of the bottle of a johnny walker red versus the top
23:51of the line blue there's a kilo extra glass in the johnny walker blue bottle than there is the red
23:58bottle because when you pick up a bottle in a shop to weigh it up the heavier it is the more premium
24:04it is or the more premium it feels and it's again it's drawing on more senses and again you look at
24:10any super premium release from let's say like the mccallan like or the red collections or the
24:14distillery world bottles or any distillery for that matter they're more premium bottles and offerings
24:19typically come with a big dollop of glass at the bottom of the bottle to make it feel nicer
24:24to make it appeal more to like have that greater sense of quality to it so yeah long answer sorry
24:31no no it's fine it's really interesting i didn't i didn't realize that but i have had
24:34a couple of this uh the spring bank cage releases that for christmas and yeah you're right they're
24:39very understated shall we say but exactly what you know they could really go for it with that
24:44but they've not is that just you know because they're much smaller and they maybe don't really
24:48want to have that kind of attention yeah i think springbank have always positioned themselves as
24:52like the anti-marketing distillery and you know they're in a unique position because they're
24:57family-owned or i assume held in some form of trust so they only really have to make as money
25:02as much profits as they they want to really they're not driven by like shareholders and things
25:07so those cage bottles they're only for sale in the shop you know if you put those in on on a
25:13retail environment let's say that you put them in hedonism beautiful retail environment or you put
25:17them in master of malt or the whiskey exchange online would people buy them if they didn't really
25:22know what they were probably not they don't have they're not very visually appealing but it's
25:27they've taken on this cult-like element you know amongst springbank fans and that sort of like
25:33anti-branding seems to sort of work really well but again you look what springbank are doing with
25:38the countdown collection you know significantly more expensive whiskeys and their other age
25:44statement releases or comparable age statement releases limited nature you get if you buy every
25:50bottle you get entered into a drawer this side on the other you know but that is not making a product
25:55that's only appealing to drinkers you know having a new release of your 30 year old every year and
26:01labeling a certain release vintage is not like dissuading collectors and investors from the
26:07market and it's you know the reality of it is in in my opinion the drinkers are only prepared to
26:13pay so much for a product where an investor or collector will pay tenfold a hundredfold for the
26:19same product because their motives are slightly different and look i do sympathize with the
26:23drinkers but there's there's a hellishly good whiskey out there if you just change your horizons
26:28a bit look at some of the fantastic blends that are coming out like house of hazelburn
26:32or compass box for instance you get incredible blended whiskeys for a fraction of the price
26:37you know even johnny walker you explore the johnny walker range and compare it like for like if we
26:42forget this obsession with age statements and just go for good whiskey there's great whiskey
26:47out there at a good price sure we can't drink 30 year old springbank anymore it's too expensive but
26:52taste profile wise you know and this is where i think the american market has got so much more
27:00over the scotch market you know buffalo trace is one distillery that feeds 17 of 17 different
27:06brands in in american whiskey like some of the biggest names of bourbon come out of buffalo trace
27:13but in scotland we kind of fixated on the single output from a single distillery and we're only
27:18allowed to classify it by age statements rather than how good it is and mccallum came into some
27:24rap with this a few years ago they they changed their range from being age statements to the
27:28i think it was ruby amber and sienna range and again those backlash sales fell so they stopped so
27:35it's but it's fascinating when you start looking at all of these little commercial decisions that
27:39come into place and when you look at again like collaborations in whiskey you know why
27:45why do some distilleries work with artists now for instance and i think the the simple answer is to
27:52to make a an appealing product for the consumer but i think that goes a little bit deeper in terms
27:58of i won't bore you with it but there's like if you look at like sociology and and various sort
28:04of like cultural theories so to speak there's there's there's people who argue that using and
28:09collaborating with artists and yeah specifically is a way of like legitimizing prices in terms of
28:17what you're asking for a product and i think that's absolutely fascinating because we are seeing
28:22some more good and bad artist collaborations at the moment so it's yeah it's an interesting area
28:30yeah which brings me on to my next question which is we've talked about you know that's
28:34a collaboration with artists we've talked about the collaboration with Bentley where do you think
28:37it's going i mean we've had one with with Aston Martin we've had one with Bentley we've got various
28:41different artists you know Ardbeg have just teamed up with a comic book artist to work for DC and
28:46Marvel and that release is 26 000 euros so how far is it going to go like where where are these
28:52things going because like you say not many people have got the money to spend on that type of thing
28:57i mean will eventually stop or is it just you know what's the next step so this is this is this
29:03is literally what i studied for my master's in terms of how society constructs value around a
29:09product now for my master's it was mostly focused around artwork okay so if a Tracy Emin painting
29:16is sold for a certain price how is that price constructed how does society build on that price
29:21that sociology framework applies directly across for whiskey and i won't go too much into it
29:27but i think around the year 2015 whiskey shifted from being a drink to being a signifier of status
29:34so yeah about 2015 is my my sort of year that i put that down as so and this is kind of correlates
29:41with all of the price increases and a lot of the brand collaborations as well so by where where i
29:47say it's it's a status symbol it's in the same category as like vintage watches or classic cars
29:53or handbags or jewelry it's driven a lot over in asia like where asian businessmen especially are
30:00very well very reserved in terms of their dress they're often sort of plain suits and not
30:05outrageously dressed like in the like it over in europe and america but you can go to a place and
30:12you can put down an expensive bottle of mccallan and mccallan is like an instant signifier for
30:17like a certain you know it taught it says something about you and and what it does and
30:23again it's interesting again if you look at other examples of this you look at coach that the fashion
30:28brand coach coach got into china early and coaching china is massive but it's not as highbrow in in
30:35over in our side of the world compared to like chanel but you know what coach got in and they
30:41dominated so i do think we're going to start seeing more of these collaborations because again
30:46it says something about the purchaser that the whiskey itself doesn't so mccallan and bentley
30:52you've got beaumont and aston martin and i'm a little bit cynical i must admit of some of the
30:58some of the collaborations but i think when it's done well and a really good example of when it's
31:02done fantastically well in my mind is the dalmore luminary series so they've worked with the vna and
31:08they've done each year a hyper rare release i think the first one the whiskey was a 50 year
31:14old whiskey or thereabouts and it was the bottle and you know packaging was uh with kengo kuma
31:20massive architect designer of the vna and dundee sensational looking bottle and then this year they
31:26work with it zaha hadid architects in london again fantastic beautiful everything integrates really
31:33well and again glenn morringer doing it in sort of like lower down the scale with lower rate
31:37statements uh with azuma makato i think that that the artist name is and i think they work
31:43really well where i feel i don't feel like it works very well is when the the artwork is just
31:51slapped on as a way to sell a product in terms of okay we've worked with this artist and we've
31:57slapped their artwork on it and that's about it you know there has to be like an incorporation or
32:03a melding of both sides of the art and the whiskey together and that's what the dalmore
32:07does really well and i think that's what some of these other ones fail to do unfortunately so
32:12yeah it's uh yeah i know i know what you mean um and also the fact that the you know proceeds from
32:17the dalmore going to help the vna as well and they do like the rare one and then they do the
32:21collector's one so you could maybe get a chance to buy in and you know that some money is going
32:25towards the museum yeah it's like benevolence it's like the the bro uh the the distiller's
32:29one-of-one auction every other year you know the brewer uh iris i think it was called a phenomenal
32:35piece of design and i think you know working with artists and working with designers absolutely
32:40pushes the product to its maximum really because the distillers and the blenders can push their
32:47product to the maximum but it's like objectively if you pour their product into the same vessel
32:54it would all look the same and this is where great art and great design can really elevate
32:58the appeal of these and again a good example is that you can when you walk into a michelin-starred
33:04restaurant or or any restaurant as you'll know the ambience and the service and the cutlery and
33:10the plates and the lighting and the music all have an impact on how you will enjoy that meal
33:18and this is why i don't really take tasting notes too seriously because to me it's all about the
33:25crack it's not about this the the subjective tasting notes that we all draw from all these
33:31whiskeys doesn't matter like if that's okay in some circumstances but for me i read a whiskey by
33:38how much fun i had drinking it because i could have drank the worst whiskey in the world with
33:42my dad or with a good friend in a really good night and it would be fantastic could be a johnny
33:47walker red do you know what i mean something like that and if it was in great friends and good
33:51company it would be the best whiskey in the world give me a 50 year old mccallan on a beach with no
33:57one else to drink it with like yeah and the people who make the whiskey would be saying that as well
34:03like they make it to drink therefore you know so long as you're drinking it and having a good time
34:07while you're doing it then that's that would be their bottom line although it is way more
34:11complicated than that exactly and glen glass one really amazing whiskey the glen classic sand end
34:16is a phenomenal whiskey for 70 pounds like absolutely what rachel and barry has done there
34:22is absolutely phenomenal and i absolutely love that whiskey and to me that is a great whiskey
34:28and it's beautiful packaging as well and what glen classic have done with uh glen glass have
34:32done with their rebrand is absolutely phenomenal you know and just before we go what were your
34:38thoughts on mccallan certicelli like just in terms of like a collab and like what it all
34:42looked like and stuff i think it's an interesting one i mean it's interesting space side is not the
34:49easiest place to get to accommodation around the distillery is not the easiest to get to
34:53and it's great to pull people up to it but i'm an art and design person you know that is why i
34:58absolutely love and maybe you needed to go to it and that was the whole point of it you needed to
35:02collaborate you need you know you need to see it and experience it in order to appreciate it
35:08it's something different yeah yeah exactly and it's but again it's another interesting example
35:13of like super brands pulling their powers together to to to to evolve their marketing you know like
35:20tens of thousands of or hundreds of thousands of mccallan fans now know a bit more about
35:24certicelli and lots of certicelli fans will know a lot more about mccallan now and and i think that
35:29is again you come back down to cynicism of it it's it's there for like sort of brand outreach
35:34it's interesting and it's interesting to see mccallan's direction going more more and more
35:39with these super premium brands than than anybody else really well mark thank you very much it's
35:45been really interesting and yeah we could chat about this all day but thanks for your time no
35:49problem thank you very much thank you very much for having me thank you
35:55thanks to all my guests on this episode and thanks to you two for listening
35:59Scran Awards are back for 2024 as a continued celebration of the food and drink scene in
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