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00:00call it. We had them form this bloc in the run-up to the last presidential election in 2022 and then
00:07the parliamentary polls. Now there are a lot of divisions between members, particularly with the
00:12far left, France unbowed, its leader Jean-Luc Melenchon is a divisive figure here in this
00:19country. And then, of course, we've seen the war in Gaza. They have used it as their rallying cry.
00:25Yesterday Emmanuel Macron even sort of alluded to the fact that there were anti-Semitic
00:32tendencies within that party. Is that fair to say?
00:35No, it's not. I mean, one can agree or disagree with the position of Jean-Luc Melenchon and his
00:41party on Gaza and on the question of anti-Semitism in France. But to claim that Jean-Luc
00:49Melenchon and his followers are anti-Semitic is propaganda. I mean, the only way to claim this
00:58is to say that any critique of Israel or on Zionism is per se anti-Semitic. And this is not
01:10proven. A lot of Jews criticise Israel.
01:14Well, I want to ask you about that, because yesterday we had Emmanuel Macron who gave
01:19that speech and he spent, in my opinion, more time talking about the dangers of the far left
01:23than the far right. Yes, because I think that the most
01:28danger, the biggest danger for the president is that if the left and the far left within the left,
01:36this popular front, makes it well in the first round, there will be only a few candidates
01:43of the presidential coalition in the second round. I don't think that it can win people from
01:52the far right party, but it could win people from the socialist party, voters of the socialist party,
02:01who could be dissatisfied by the popular front united with La France Insoumise.
02:08I want to ask you about Emmanuel Macron's bet, because yesterday he seemed to suggest that
02:14he dissolve parliament because he wants to keep the far right away from the Elysee Palace when
02:20the next presidential vote comes in 2027. He is banking on the fact that if the far right comes
02:26out on top, once these parliamentary polls are done, that they will do a bad job. Is that a risky
02:33bet? Because we've seen over in Italy, for instance, where we have a far right prime
02:37minister, Giorgia Belloni, and she's not really messing up that much.
02:41This is why you see, it is a very dangerous bet. This said, there is a difference between
02:47Belloni and Le Pen, namely that Belloni, before to get elected as a prime minister in Italy,
02:55could rest on big numbers of local governments, with an experience of government at various
03:04levels. This is not the case with the National Rally, which will not be able to be supported by
03:12local governments, which has no real experience in governing. So it will be a tough job. This said,
03:20one never knows. I want to ask you about Jordan Bardella, because this is, of course,
03:24the National Rally's candidate for the prime minister's post. Marine Le Pen has ruled out
03:30being prime minister if the far right were to come out on top. Why does Jordan Bardella have
03:36this appeal, particularly among young French people? He's young. He's 28. Yes, he speaks well.
03:44He comes from the suburbs in north from Paris. And to some extent, he also knows perhaps much
03:53better what the life of ordinary people is, compared to, say, President Macron and the
04:00political governing class. This said, he also plays on the fears of a lot of people in France
04:11who have a feeling of decay, of fear. And, I mean, he's a good politician, one could say,
04:21in his own direction. Do you fear that the far right is being normalized here in France?
04:32Oh, yes, this is for sure. I mean, the fact that we have Eric Ciotti sitting down for lunch with
04:37Jordan Bardella goes to show it has been normalized. Yes. And we have to say that this is not an
04:43isolated evolution. We can see this with far right in the US with Donald Trump, in Brazil
04:54with Bolsonaro, in Italy with Meloni. So we have a general trend. Can I ask you about Meloni? Because
05:02of course, the G7 is underway. And unlike the far right here in France, she has managed to sing from
05:09the same song sheet as most other Western nations when it comes to supporting Ukraine. Is that what
05:16has made her palatable and acceptable for most Western leaders? I think so. Because on societal
05:22issues such as abortion, a traditional view on family and so on, she's more far away from the
05:32liberal camp than Marine Le Pen, who is not opposed to gay people who doesn't defend a
05:39traditional family. The fear is with the far right, they don't say what the actual program is,
05:45what they really think until they really come to power. And then they start chipping away at
05:48freedoms that exist, right? Yes. But I mean, the programs are made to get people vote for them.
05:57But we all know that programs are not often respected once the politicians are elected. So
06:04this is right also for the national rally. Yves Saint-Omer, we're gonna have to leave
06:09with a thank you very much for joining us on the program today.