#Khabar #Budget2024 #MuhammadAurangzeb #PakistanEconomy #Inflation #NationalAssembly #Budget #PMLNGovt #PPP #bilawalbhutto #SharmilaFaruqui
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Meher Bokhari
Guests:
- Muhammad Aurangzeb (Minister of Finance and Revenue)
- Taimur Khan Jhagra PTI
- Sharmila Farooqi PPP
Govt proposes up to 20% hike in govt employees' salaries - FM Aurangzeb Told Everything
"IMF Kay Zor Par Ju Nahi Karna Chahiye Tha Wo Kardiya", Taimur Jhagra
Budget Ke Maamla Par Hukoomat Bilawal Bhutto Ko Mananay Mein Nakaam. .. Sharmila Faruqui
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
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ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Meher Bokhari
Guests:
- Muhammad Aurangzeb (Minister of Finance and Revenue)
- Taimur Khan Jhagra PTI
- Sharmila Farooqi PPP
Govt proposes up to 20% hike in govt employees' salaries - FM Aurangzeb Told Everything
"IMF Kay Zor Par Ju Nahi Karna Chahiye Tha Wo Kardiya", Taimur Jhagra
Budget Ke Maamla Par Hukoomat Bilawal Bhutto Ko Mananay Mein Nakaam. .. Sharmila Faruqui
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
Category
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NewsTranscript
00:00Assalam-o-Alaikum and good evening, I am Meher Bukhari.
00:17In the absence of Nawaz Sharif and Bilawal Bhutto, the first budget of Rs. 8000 crore has been presented without consultation from the United Nations government.
00:29After this budget of Rs. 18 crore, a storm of inflation will await.
00:34The government has decided to take back all the losses kept under the zero rating.
00:38It is also advised to invest Rs. 20 per litre in the Petroleum Levy.
00:43It is also advised to reduce the tax on tea leaves and other products from one percent to two and a half percent.
00:52Imported paper, spices, rice and other items will also become expensive.
00:56Reducing the tax on stationery will definitely increase the cost.
01:00In the budget, strict measures have been taken for non-filers from Grade 1 to Grade 16.
01:0525 percent of government employees' salaries and 22 percent of 17 to 22 grade employees' salaries have also been announced.
01:1315 percent increase in pension has been advised.
01:16Pakistan will spend Rs. 20 crore in the pension fund during the Rawa Mali year.
01:21More taxes have been added to the Income Tax Slabs.
01:25Rs. 50,000 is exempt from the Income Tax for monthly income.
01:29But the income tax on monthly income up to Rs. 1 lakh is 5 percent.
01:32Income tax on income earners up to Rs. 1,83,384 is 15 percent.
01:38Income tax on income earners up to Rs. 2,67,667 is 25 percent.
01:42Income tax on income earners up to Rs. 3,41,667 is 30 percent.
01:47While capital gain tax on real estate is advised to be collected at 15 percent.
01:52While 45 percent of the income tax on non-filers has been kept.
01:561 percent advance on withholding tax from non-filers is advised to be increased to 2.25 percent.
02:0318 percent standard tax on mobile phones.
02:06While in the budget, it has been advised to abolish sales tax, exemption, exemption and exemption.
02:13All items of copper, paper, coal and plastic have been decided to impose withholding tax.
02:21While in the budget, it has been advised to abolish sales tax, exemption, exemption and exemption.
02:25While in the budget, it has been advised to abolish sales tax, exemption, exemption and exemption.
02:28While in the budget, it has been advised to abolish sales tax, exemption, exemption and exemption.
02:31While in the budget, it has been advised to abolish sales tax, exemption, exemption and exemption.
02:34While in the budget, it has been advised to abolish sales tax, exemption, exemption and exemption.
02:37While in the budget, it has been advised to abolish sales tax, exemption, exemption and exemption.
02:40While in the budget, it has been advised to abolish sales tax, exemption, exemption and exemption.
02:43While in the budget, it has been advised to abolish sales tax, exemption, exemption and exemption.
02:46We have with us today, the loyal minister of treasury, Mr. Aurangzeb.
02:51Mr. Aurangzeb, thank you very much for being with us.
02:53Please tell us, what relief have you given to the people in the budget?
02:56What steps have been taken to save from inflation?
02:59Because there is still no clarity regarding the 200-unit electricity bill.
03:03What will this group do?
03:04You have also decided to increase the Petroleum Development Levy by Rs. 20 per litre on petrol and diesel.
03:08This will definitely increase inflation.
03:10And the relief that you want to give, it will be difficult to transfer to the people.
03:16As usual, you have asked many questions in just one question.
03:21So, the first thing is that I can tell you that
03:27on all levels, whether it is the government employees or the salaried class,
03:32we have protected them from any increases on the taxation side as we go forward.
03:40So this is an important thing.
03:43And this is on the short-term end.
03:46Secondly, what is being discussed about this PDL,
03:53and you have already mentioned it,
03:55this is just creating the headroom.
03:57This does not mean that we are going in and going to go and impose this.
04:02We have kept this in our contingency measures.
04:10Because if the overall commodity prices and especially the oil prices continue to go north,
04:16wherever we will need a revenue shortfall,
04:21only at that time we will go and apply this.
04:26So, as I mentioned earlier, this was our important thing,
04:31that the salaried class, the vulnerable class,
04:37because you did not mention how far we have taken the BISP program.
04:45Because it is not only meant for the vulnerable segment.
04:51So this time, for the first time, we are also going towards capacity building and skill development.
04:56So this number of things which we are trying to resolve as we move forward,
05:04vis-a-vis a lot of trade-offs that we have to do,
05:08to start getting our economy moving on a sustainable track.
05:15Because see, this country cannot run on a 9.5% tax to GDP ratio.
05:20And if you want to run, then you will have to come back to those levels and impose more taxes.
05:27This year, let's assume we did not do the salaried class,
05:32but if we are talking about further taxes being imposed,
05:39there are a number of things we have to keep into account.
05:44First of all, the non-filers.
05:47The place where we are taking the non-filers,
05:51this 2-3%, 4% difference should not increase.
05:55We have taken it to that level,
05:57that they think 2-3-4 times whether they have to pay taxes in this country
06:02and whether they have to come on the active taxpayer list or not.
06:05Because see, as far as I am concerned, Meher,
06:09if we do not take these big fundamental decisions,
06:14then it will be very difficult to take things forward.
06:21And therefore, our hand has been forced.
06:24Because if we take these non-filers,
06:28I say that this is such a strange invention in this country,
06:34that I don't think there is such an example in the world.
06:41So ultimately, it's all going to be that everyone in this country should be on the active taxpayer list.
06:48That is the starting point.
06:50You are talking about increasing taxes, increasing electricity rates, etc.
06:57Why is this happening?
06:58This is happening because we can provide relief everywhere, provided we have the fiscal space.
07:03Yes.
07:04Because there is no fiscal space,
07:06so we have to find all these other things in many taxes.
07:12So we have to put it on the structural side,
07:14income tax, sales tax and federal excise duty,
07:19we have to take it to a point where we go towards sustainability.
07:23And secondly, this is all the revenue measures.
07:28But as you have just said,
07:30that if we want to improve the electricity sector or the power sector,
07:35then that separate debt issue will not be able to continue.
07:38A question remains to be answered, sir.
07:41Sir, is it really justified to increase the top tax rate to 40-45% for salaried individuals?
07:48And then you have a non-tax revenue of Rs 4,000 billion, which will make the poor suffer.
07:52Doesn't this signal a complete failure to broaden the tax base?
07:57Because you will increase horizontal equity,
08:00you will also be able to reduce the burden on the poor.
08:02Who does not want to see real estate magnates or rich and rich agriculturists being taxed for a change?
08:08Western countries definitely impose the same tax of 40-45%,
08:12but they also give a lot to the people in the form of benefits.
08:15Here we do not get anything.
08:16So what will the salaried class do?
08:18Will it look for job opportunities in other countries?
08:21Or will it try to draw salaries in cash?
08:23What else will they do?
08:25You are right.
08:27But first, let me give a little clarification.
08:30Because I think it may have been misinterpreted.
08:34But as far as the salaried class is concerned, we have completely protected it.
08:39The threshold is fixed at Rs 6 lakhs.
08:47And the maximum bracket of the salaried class is also fixed at Rs 35 lakhs.
08:53So it is possible that it is being mixed up with the non-salaried class,
08:59where the maximum slab is suggested to be 45%.
09:03So as far as the salaried class is concerned, there is actually no change.
09:07In between slabs, there is a slight change.
09:14But there is actually minimal impact for the salaried class.
09:18So I just wanted to be absolutely clear that we have completely protected it.
09:25So it is possible that there may have been a mistake in our communication.
09:28But I just wanted to...
09:30It's good that you asked this question because it gives clarity.
09:34Thank you for clarifying that, sir.
09:36Sir, in this condition of emergency,
09:39increasing the salaries of government employees by 22% or 25%,
09:43the provinces will also follow the centre.
09:46So you will have surpluses of the provinces.
09:49But this one step that you are going to take,
09:52this is going to be an additional burden of Rs 1 trillion.
09:56Minimum on public spending.
09:58So does any institution increase the salaries of its employees during financial distress?
10:05See, Meher, this is also a very pertinent question of yours.
10:09I see it from two perspectives.
10:12One is the short-term fix.
10:16The short-term fix was that,
10:18Alhamdulillah, inflation has come to 12% in May.
10:22But the average inflation has been in the 23% to 24% range.
10:26So we had to make the government employees whole
10:31for just the inflationary impact on their purchasing power.
10:37So that's one part of it.
10:39But your question is absolutely correct.
10:42Because we have to find a structural solution to this.
10:45Like I will give you another example on a lighter note.
10:50Cabinet colleagues said that they will not take their salaries.
10:55So this is a good thing that we have said this.
11:00But is it going to make a dent into the government expenditures?
11:03The answer is no.
11:04Symbolically, this is a very good thing.
11:06Similarly, this salary thing is to just compensate them for the inflationary trend.
11:12The real thing that we are going to do and are doing,
11:16Meher, this is a very important thing,
11:18that we have to remove the government from every business.
11:23We are going to get more and more things in the hands of the private sector.
11:30And in this, I will tell you that the Prime Minister has just taken a step
11:38in announcing the closure of PWD.
11:41We can all argue about this.
11:45Because you started with the salary.
11:47That they have such a big salary bill,
11:50that even if the department is shut down,
11:53how much will it make a difference?
11:56And that will also be true for you,
11:58that how much will it make a difference in terms of salary and whatever else they get.
12:01The answer is the larger thing that they were involved in.
12:07It is not that the government can bear the expenses of 2.5 billion or 3 billion,
12:12or the expenses of increasing their salary.
12:14Look at the number of projects and the size of the projects that they are delivering,
12:20or rather not delivering.
12:22So client service, zero zilch,
12:25apart from that corruption,
12:27and how much was given to them,
12:29how much was spent,
12:31that is the real cost to the exchequer.
12:34While we are focusing on whether the salary has increased or not,
12:37that is the real cost to the exchequer.
12:40So that is why I would request you to give us a few months,
12:44because now a committee has been formed,
12:46which the Prime Minister has prepared,
12:48and ministers will be involved in it.
12:50They have given two and a half months,
12:53that all the ministries of the government,
12:56and especially the devolved subjects,
13:01why should we not close them?
13:05And if we close them,
13:07then we will not only see their direct cost,
13:10but the indirect element of it,
13:13because of which there is inefficiency,
13:15because of which there is corruption,
13:17keeping that in mind,
13:20we should close these departments.
13:23The real delta will come from there.
13:26You mentioned the inflationary impact on government employees,
13:29the whole country will also suffer from this inflationary impact.
13:32Now there is a government of loyalty,
13:33700-800 billion,
13:34how will they reduce their expenses and expenses annually?
13:37You mentioned the duplicate departments,
13:39for instance education,
13:41but again, I will tell you as an example,
13:43there are 18 such regulatory bodies in our country,
13:46in which bureaucracy is drawing double salaries.
13:49For instance, the Intellectual Property Organization of Pakistan,
13:524-5 government employees are sitting in it as board members.
13:56They all draw double salaries.
13:58There are costs to be optimized right here.
14:01OGDCL is another example,
14:02largest, most profitable company.
14:04It also has federal secretaries,
14:05same with the Bank of Khyber, etc.
14:07I mean there are many examples.
14:08There are 18 such,
14:09they are drawing double salaries as federal secretaries,
14:11as board members,
14:12and there is no real capability in the field,
14:14there is no accountability in the field regarding the results,
14:17yet they are being paid twice as board members.
14:19So, there is only one pocket,
14:20from which this money is coming out.
14:23Look Meher,
14:24you know many things better than me,
14:28because you have been covering this much longer.
14:30I have just come from the private sector,
14:32I am in my fourth month in the role.
14:35So, what you are saying,
14:36I can only agree with you.
14:38And on that,
14:39if you have heard the budget speech,
14:42then on the guidance of Wazir Azam,
14:45the first thing is,
14:47the number of government nominees on various boards.
14:52On that, I think,
14:53as far as I know,
14:55under the rules of the CCP,
14:57there is already a cap.
14:59But they have also said,
15:01that the government nominees that go on these various boards,
15:05their remuneration,
15:07a threshold will be set on that.
15:10And above that threshold,
15:13for example,
15:14these boards give them remuneration,
15:17those will go straight into the exchequer.
15:20These are small things.
15:22But these are very,
15:24very important steps,
15:26in terms of getting the governance right.
15:28That is why I told you,
15:30when you will talk to Avesh Lagari,
15:33it has taken him a little while,
15:37that all the boards of the Disco Board are changing.
15:43In that, you will see that the private sector professionals
15:46are going to dominate these boards.
15:48And in most of the cases,
15:50the chairpersons are going to be from the private sector.
15:53I would say that this is going to be a big revolution.
15:57But this is how we are going to start chipping away, Meher.
16:01Absolutely, sir.
16:02Because this is a low-hanging fruit,
16:03which can be achieved in less than two and a half months.
16:06Sir, this is a very big question.
16:08Can you imagine that the tax to GDP of the loyal government
16:11will increase so much in the next ten years,
16:13ten years,
16:14that we will be able to revisit the NFC award
16:16without ending our deficit and loss?
16:19Because the government did not make the NFC for the next award.
16:22And even after so many months,
16:24this conversation did not take place?
16:26So, look,
16:28I have given a summary of it today,
16:31in the budget speech,
16:33where we have started the discussion from the very early stages,
16:39around a national fiscal pact.
16:42And in that,
16:43what the federation has to do,
16:45the federation has to do,
16:46we have to do it as the federal government.
16:48And in that,
16:49the first thing I am saying is that
16:50why have we kept these ministries as the devolved subjects?
16:52Similarly,
16:53our request to them is that
16:56where there should be an incentivization
16:59to increase further revenues,
17:01because there are some matters
17:02which are provincial subjects,
17:03we cannot take unilateral decisions in that.
17:06So, this initial discussion has started with the Chief Minister.
17:11Also, in terms of the expenditures,
17:14what can be said about them?
17:18Look, Meher,
17:19I speak very simply
17:20because I have come from the private sector.
17:22And I have said this before in a program,
17:25and I have said this again and again in the budget speech,
17:30although I had to increase my pitch a little
17:34because of our friends on the opposition benches.
17:39But the point is that
17:41we will have to take all stakeholders along with us.
17:45Because it has to be through enterprise thinking.
17:48This is not just about English.
17:50The point is that if we say that
17:52we are riding in one boat,
17:55and you tell me not to talk to me,
17:59just see because the whole is on your side of the boat.
18:04When unfortunately,
18:06or God forbid,
18:07the entire boat is going to sink.
18:09So, this is such a thing that we are stuck.
18:14And this is not something like that.
18:16Pakistan is not such a country.
18:17In the advanced countries as well,
18:19Meher, you know it better than me,
18:21Australia also struggles with this
18:24between the federal government and the provinces.
18:27So, this is not something where there is dialogue.
18:30Yes, tell me.
18:31Sir, you are saying that
18:32you cannot take unilateral decisions in provincial subjects.
18:36And theoretically, that sounds fine.
18:38But no property tax is collected in the provinces.
18:40Last year, only 8 billion rupees were collected.
18:42Why doesn't the loyal government say
18:44that these topics should be given to the provinces?
18:48Because you say you cannot do it unilaterally.
18:51But real estate, agriculture are provincial subjects.
18:53But sir, Punjab, Sindh and Balochistan
18:55are under your jurisdiction, right?
18:57Mr. Shabashiri's niece is in Punjab.
18:59Mr. Mariam is there.
19:00They are not using their tax powers.
19:02They might as well surrender to the federal government.
19:04And if they do not want to levy any agricultural tax or real estate,
19:08if you cannot give them incentives,
19:10then take this power from them.
19:12Yes, I think,
19:14I will just say that
19:17these are such subjects
19:19where we will request the provinces
19:23to be incentivized.
19:25That they should increase in this area.
19:30And ultimately,
19:32as a sovereign, we will have to increase.
19:35Because, look, I just say that
19:38right now,
19:40a certain percentage of whatever we collect
19:43goes to the provinces.
19:45This year, you have increased the revenue by 30%.
19:48Next year, you are going to increase it by 38%.
19:51And we are going to increase it.
19:53And, God willing, we will complete it.
19:55But if there is room in the provinces,
20:01if we do not realize its full potential,
20:06then the sustainability that I am talking about,
20:10to take tax to GDP ratio for the country,
20:13not the federal government, not for FVR,
20:16for the country,
20:17where we can be part of a committee of nations
20:20or at least make a start
20:23to be part of the committee of nations,
20:26that 13-13.5% should be given.
20:28We cannot do this alone on the federal government.
20:31We will have to work together with the provinces.
20:34And even today, when we talk about primary surplus,
20:37unless the provinces deliver their provincial surpluses,
20:42we cannot go ahead.
20:44You are right.
20:46I can only tell you that
20:48the discussion has started.
20:50And we will continue this discussion.
20:53Okay. So that's good to know that the discussion has started.
20:55Because these are easy conversations to have
20:57given that you are a government.
20:59But sir, tell us,
21:00what is the logic behind the PSDP of 1,500 billion?
21:03What is the logic behind the M&A schemes of 75 billion?
21:06When we have to tighten the belt fiscally.
21:09Everything you are showing,
21:11unfortunately, goes against the principles of fiscal reform.
21:15Look, as I said in the budget speech,
21:19Mehar, it is very important
21:22that the projects that are already on the way,
21:26some have stopped at 50%,
21:28some have stopped at 60%,
21:30some have stopped at 70%,
21:32so 81% of this money is going to be spent on those projects
21:38which we have to take through the finishing line.
21:41Can you imagine that there is a project
21:43and it has stopped at 60% or 70%
21:47and its impact will not come.
21:50So we have to clear one thing.
21:53Apart from that,
21:54there are 19% projects which we are doing new projects.
21:58In that too, the National Economic Council,
22:02in which the Prime Minister chairs it,
22:04Chief Minister Sahiba and Chief Minister Sahiban are present in it,
22:10and there are some Federal Ministers,
22:12it has been made very strict criteria
22:15that which projects will be in the traction,
22:19which dams will have a high-level impact
22:24where the federation has to fund it,
22:29or these Mehar are those projects
22:31where for example World Bank, ADB, AIB,
22:35funding is available in dollars or foreign currency
22:39and we have to give it the rupee cover
22:46so that funding can come and these projects can move forward.
22:51So we have made it very strict.
22:53And the last thing I want to say is
22:55that out of 1500, 1400 is part of the PSDP,
23:01100 billion is that which is going to be through public-private partnership.
23:06And I again go back and praise the Government of Sindh
23:10that the way they have done infrastructure projects in public-private partnership,
23:15at the federal level we need to learn from them
23:18and move it forward in the same way
23:21so that the going forward of PPP,
23:23this framework increases and the public sector decreases from it.
23:29But at this time, this was the need of the time, Mehar.
23:32And Sir, this is a very big issue of pensions.
23:34The rapid increase in pensions that we are seeing,
23:36will the loyal government be able to fulfill these expenses and expenses in 5 years?
23:40And the way you have announced the pension plan for new employees today,
23:43you are basically following the pension reforms that were done 2 years before Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.
23:50But unfortunately, all the existing employees,
23:53the ones who exist right now,
23:55you have not talked about their pension funding and benefits.
23:58And if we can get tax on us,
24:00if we can get tax on this level,
24:02then why can't we get tax on the pension of the public sector employees, Sir?
24:07Yes, I think your question on pension is absolutely correct.
24:12I will just say that we are working on both the things.
24:18That too I have given a blind spot in the budget speech.
24:21I could not share the details because we are still working it out with the stakeholders.
24:27Whatever you have said is absolutely correct.
24:30The unfunded pension liability, I can talk about the federal government.
24:35This is a very big issue.
24:38This is a family issue.
24:40If we don't get on to course correction,
24:46and a lot of work has been done on this.
24:48I am not saying that I am talking to you very lightly.
24:54We have been working on this for the last 2-3 months.
24:58And you will see that we will take this forward.
25:04Because if we don't fix it, we have an unfunded pension liability.
25:11Absolutely.
25:12Number one.
25:13Number two, at least we can do this,
25:15that going forward,
25:17the loyal employees who are coming to our workforce,
25:23they can be taken to the contributory scheme.
25:26So that day one, their pension liability gets funded.
25:31And the third thing is that we have to take it towards a very professional pension asset management fund.
25:43Which we can outsource and take it forward.
25:46Whatever you have said is absolutely correct.
25:48Punjab took the first step in this.
25:52KPK has done the right thing as well.
25:56And I do think it's about time that at the federal level,
25:59we do the same.
26:00And you will hear the steps that we are going to take around this.
26:06Sir, because future employees will have zero financial impact.
26:09The existing pension,
26:11we had to see a reform on the burden of 1 trillion.
26:14But sir, lastly tell me,
26:15the government has asked for a loan of 7 billion dollars from China for the ML1 railway line.
26:20Will there be a forex generated from the new line so that we can pay more interest?
26:24I mean in terms of cost benefit analysis,
26:26this scheme is feasible.
26:28And is this the time,
26:30given our situation,
26:32when we should agree on more loans,
26:34given that this is already an IMF made budget, right sir?
26:39See, because there are many questions in every question of yours.
26:46I give you full credit for that.
26:49So see, the first thing is,
26:51let me tell you the last thing first,
26:53that we are very aligned,
26:55that the priorities of Pakistan,
26:58that's why I said yesterday as well,
27:01that this is Pakistan's program,
27:03Tax to GDP, Energy Reform,
27:05SOE Reform, Privatization Agenda,
27:07which is going to be helped, supported, funded by IMF.
27:11So we are broadly aligned on those parameters.
27:14Now let's come to our first question.
27:17So see, the tour of China,
27:20this was very much around CPEC phase 2,
27:23which is very much around special economic zones,
27:26which is very much around making sure that
27:29the Chinese industry should come here,
27:32and work in special economic zones,
27:35like the service long march project,
27:37or the export of truck tires,
27:40all these projects came here taking that kind of effort.
27:44As far as our infrastructure projects are concerned,
27:46we are still talking about ML1,
27:51Karakoram Highway, Gwadar,
27:55these are very much in the G2G context,
27:58but all of these projects ultimately need to generate
28:03enough effects so that we get back into a repayment mode,
28:09so that we don't get into that problem,
28:14or get stuck in CPEC phase 1.
28:17And I always say this,
28:20when we talk about IPPs and IPPs payments,
28:24see, CPEC phase 1 was all about infrastructure.
28:29It had ports, IPPs, power projects, all of that.
28:33Phase 2 was going to be about the monetization of that infrastructure.
28:38Like I said, the entire industry that was to come,
28:41that had to export, we had to make these repayments from those flows.
28:45That break that came,
28:48it has caused us a lot of loss.
28:50But going forward, Inshallah,
28:53as this industry starts getting relocated here in Pakistan,
28:56and we see some of these projects like service long march coming through,
29:01hopefully we'll be in a better position than where we are today.
29:05Thank you very much, Finance Minister, for being with us.
29:07We wish you the best of luck, sir.
29:08It is difficult times indeed.
29:10Guys, on Pakistan People's Party, will the budget pass or not?
29:12It seems difficult at the moment.
29:14What is the People's Party thinking?
29:16Stay with us, we're going to be right back.
29:25In this tough relationship between the Noon League and the People's Party,
29:27the Pakistan People's Party is making the Noon League,
29:30which does not fully understand its weight,
29:32realize today that without the People's Party, the budget will not pass,
29:35the government will not remain.
29:37The government's most important ally, the Pakistan People's Party,
29:39despite severe reservations on the budget,
29:41agreed to pass the budget.
29:43After three attempts from the government,
29:46finally Bilawal Bhutto Zardari supported the participation in the budget meeting.
29:49But Bilawal Bhutto Zardari himself did not participate in the meeting.
29:53Syed Khurshid Shah and Naveed Qamar from the Pakistan People's Party participated.
29:56Before this, the People's Party, after the meeting of the parliamentary party,
29:59Shazia Murray had claimed that the PPP will not participate in the meeting.
30:04And we want the government to fulfill its promises.
30:07PPP, government employees' salaries, PSDP, Zara, tax,
30:11and other agreements are not to be trusted.
30:15And on this basis, the decision to boycott the meeting was made.
30:18Khurshid Shah also complained that the budget proposal was not trusted.
30:22All four provinces should trust the budget proposal.
30:26The Noon League underestimates us and takes us for granted.
30:30But we are also a community.
30:31We also have to face our voters and face our consequences.
30:34We are a democratic community.
30:36We do not believe in blackmailing.
30:39But we should not be taken for granted.
30:41Whatever has not been entrusted to us,
30:44has not been discussed with us on the PSDP.
30:47There are things in the budget,
30:50such as the salary clause, agriculture, tax system,
30:54what policies will be there.
30:56Because we are in the same boat.
30:58If there is a loss in the budget,
31:00it will not be the PMLN's fault, it will be our fault.
31:02To avoid that, we want to be taken for granted.
31:06We will not participate in today's budget speech.
31:13We will talk later.
31:14Taimur Jhagda, former Minister of Treasury, KPK, is with us.
31:18Member of the National Assembly, People's Party, Sharmila Faruqi.
31:21Thank you both very much.
31:22Sharmila Sahiba, I will start with you.
31:24On what basis was Bilawal accepted?
31:27And why didn't Bilawal himself participate?
31:30Thank you, Meher.
31:32So far, Bilawal has not been accepted at all.
31:37Because the People's Party had an agreement with the PMLN.
31:42In which the PSDP of all four parties had to discuss with the People's Party.
31:47They had to get their information, which did not happen.
31:49And that time has passed.
31:51And after consultation, it was decided with the Parliamentary Party that we will not participate in the meeting.
31:57Anyway, when Mr. Ishaq Dar came to talk,
32:02as a token, we sent our three members to the meeting.
32:06So far, we have no intention of attending the meeting in the future.
32:11Now the ball is in the court of the government.
32:15Let's see what the government says about this.
32:20Because the violation of the agreement has been done by the government, not by the People's Party.
32:28But what are the sticking points now?
32:31You are right about trust.
32:33There should have been consultation on every level, which did not happen.
32:35But what are the sticking points now?
32:37What is the People's Party demanding?
32:39See, the most important thing right now is the budget.
32:42And it was decided with the PMLN that before the budget comes,
32:49there will be a discussion with the People's Party on the public sector development projects of all the provinces.
32:56The People's Party's input will also be taken.
32:59And the budget will be made with consultation, which did not happen.
33:04And unfortunately, that time has also passed because the budget has come today.
33:08So this is a complete violation of the agreement and that time has also passed.
33:13Now what happens next?
33:15How does the government joke?
33:17And what does our side talk about it?
33:21This will be told in the coming time, starting today.
33:24But it's interesting because now it's done, right?
33:27I mean, it was presented, so that boat left.
33:30But now there will be sticking points.
33:32Do you know about this?
33:34What are you trying to really renegotiate right now?
33:36See, there were some things in our agreement,
33:40where we had some agreements with respect to all four provinces.
33:44That too was not completed.
33:45That too is still left.
33:47What decision does the government make on it?
33:50How does it proceed with the People's Party?
33:53And there are still some projects, some discussions,
33:57which can still be included in the budget.
34:00Because the budget has not passed yet.
34:02See, we have a slogan in the budget.
34:05I understood, I understood Mr. Sharmila.
34:07Give me a minute here.
34:08But Mr. Jagra, People's Party seems to be in a prime position
34:11to elicit a pound of flesh right now.
34:13They will talk.
34:14Without them, the government does not stand.
34:16There is no budget, so the government also went home.
34:18What do you think?
34:19Is this just for optics?
34:21Or will they really be in a better position
34:24as compared to Tariq-e-Insaaf right now, of course?
34:29No, there is no doubt in this
34:31that they will take their pound of flesh to some extent.
34:34There is no doubt in this either.
34:36In the end, they will most likely play ball
34:39in what is a hybrid pro-plus-max regime.
34:44One thing that I think was said in the interview with Shazia Murray,
34:53don't take us for granted.
34:55See, PMLN has also taken the vote bank for granted.
35:01And traditionally, this has definitely happened.
35:04Let me tell you,
35:06when loyal governments make a budget,
35:09they forget that they have to actually engage with the provinces in Pakistan.
35:15And this whole budget tells you
35:19that a business-as-usual budget could not have been more than this.
35:24If there really was to be reform,
35:26then not just Sindh,
35:27but they should have sat with the KP government,
35:30with Balochistan, with Punjab.
35:34They should have laid out a platform
35:37that these are the government's constraints.
35:40This is how we have to go on an economic reform roadmap.
35:45The IMF gave a stick.
35:47They did what they had to do.
35:50What they didn't have to do...
35:52Okay, tell me, what should they have done that they didn't, Mr. Jagra?
35:55And do you think a political threat from Adiala jail
35:58is also too great for the government
36:00avoiding aggressive steps right now?
36:02Is it a political mistake or political stupidity?
36:05Yes, when you know that the mandate is not yours,
36:09it is someone else's,
36:10then how can you happily take difficult steps?
36:14Or can you explain this?
36:16What is the missed opportunity?
36:17You have been saying since evening that it is a missed opportunity.
36:19The government has given a budget with zero reform appetite without any major reforms.
36:23What do you want to see?
36:27The biggest thing you need is expenditure reform.
36:31In expenditure reform, the first thing is the salary system
36:35or the government system where two out of ten people work.
36:39What is the result? 25% salary increase.
36:42What is the impact? 1500 billion rupees across Pakistan.
36:45The second thing is pensions.
36:47The work has been announced in pensions, which KP did three years ago,
36:51but did not give credit.
36:53But this is the pension of those people
36:55who will be released today,
36:57after 40 years they will get a contributory pension,
37:00which today is a pension bill of 1000 billion for Wafaaq,
37:04or a pension bill of 2000 billion rupees across Pakistan this year.
37:08How will its financing be?
37:10For that, you and I will have to go 45% tax ahead of salary.
37:16If there is nothing else,
37:18the development budget has been announced for 1500 billion.
37:21You know, I also know,
37:23take the figures of the last two years,
37:25500-600 billion is actually spent.
37:27What will happen?
37:29They will allocate to their own projects.
37:32The KP projects that were taken out earlier,
37:34have been put back.
37:35They will not have fund releases.
37:38We do not even have the blackmailing ability that they have.
37:42Is there anything in the budget to increase exports?
37:45No.
37:46What did they do?
37:48The exporters who used to get a fixed tax system,
37:52they increased it from 1% to 30% or 45% in a year.
37:56Sir, but now 145 billion will increase further.
37:59The export sector was giving 90 billion tax.
38:01Now it will give more,
38:02but I am sure it will disincentivize a lot of things.
38:05But sir, they are bringing non-filers into the tax net.
38:09They have tried to bring non-filers and tax into the net.
38:13Do you give them credit for that?
38:16No.
38:17If they do, they will not give any credit.
38:19For now, 100-200 retailers have signed up.
38:23For example,
38:24there is no tax on retailers.
38:27It is being said that those who deal with them,
38:31they will leave the withholding tax.
38:35Look, in Punjab,
38:36the niece of the Prime Minister is sitting.
38:38It was possible that,
38:40and there are also allies in Sindh,
38:41I will also ask Sharmila,
38:42it was possible to talk about tax on real estate and agriculture.
38:46The bill of defamation that has been passed so aggressively,
38:49if they would have shown the bill here too,
38:51could it have been done?
38:53Because if this is not an emergency,
38:54then I don't know what will happen.
38:56Let's take both things.
38:58Real estate.
38:59Firstly, the way you increase property taxes in a wrong way,
39:04like they increased the capital gains tax,
39:06I think on property sales,
39:09on immovable property sales,
39:11they increased it by 15%.
39:14When you don't have the enforcement capacity,
39:17what happens is that the transactions will end
39:20and the transactions will be under the table.
39:23The tax system that you have,
39:26its implementation capacity should be there.
39:29You have to increase urban immovable property tax.
39:32I believe that this is a place where the provinces did not perform
39:37because it is an unpopular tax.
39:39This is the easy result.
39:41If you reform in Islamabad,
39:44if you put property tax in Islamabad at the level of Mumbai and Bangalore,
39:49the provinces will get an example.
39:51It is easy to criticize the provinces.
39:53They don't even do it in Islamabad.
39:55The way to do this is to put all four provinces together
39:59and say, look, this property tax system needs to be fixed.
40:02There is no need to amend the rules.
40:05But I know that when I was doing pension reform,
40:08no one else had to do it in the whole of Pakistan.
40:11So in the whole of Pakistan, the criticism was only on the Taimur fight.
40:14Sir, we just interviewed the finance minister.
40:17He did give PTI government credit for that.
40:19But sir, if pension reform does not happen,
40:21then we will have a problem.
40:23Because it's a recipe for accelerated accumulation of debt.
40:27So I am surprised that work has not started on it yet.
40:30I couldn't agree more.
40:34In fact, I am saying that the contributory pension
40:37that had to be made for new employees,
40:40I used to say in my province when my colleagues used to ask me,
40:45you see, we will do it, the rest of Pakistan will do it after us.
40:48Let's do one good thing.
40:50But now they should have gone beyond that.
40:53They are talking now that we will do it,
40:56the consultation is almost done.
40:58Now the people who are in the government
41:01or the pensioners,
41:03who will bear their burden?
41:05How will that be funded?
41:07Absolutely, sir.
41:08Mr. Sharmila, quick question.
41:10Because it is a matter of time.
41:11With such a big loss,
41:12what was the need for 1500 billion PSDP expenses?
41:16And now you will blackmail the People's Party yourself.
41:19Now you need the government.
41:21Somewhere or the other, sanity has to prevail.
41:23Under the 18th amendment, you do not even allow the NFC to be revisited.
41:27There are also partners in the government.
41:29But they don't even let you do the work you have to do.
41:32How will this matter work, sir?
41:34Look, the thing is that they think our decency is our weakness.
41:38It's not like that.
41:40The People's Party's agenda is not politics,
41:42nor do we blackmail.
41:44But the thing that was decided under the amendment,
41:47not acting on it is bad intention.
41:49This is bad intention and nothing else.
41:52And you talked about PSDP,
41:55it's absolutely right.
41:56And there will be a lot of cuts from this too.
41:58For example, this year's PSDP was 950 billion.
42:03It was cut to 746 billion.
42:0530% was cut because they had to show the plus of the primary budget.
42:09This will also happen.
42:10But look,
42:11we had to talk to us,
42:14ask us,
42:15and take our input for them.
42:18We might have given good advice.
42:19We might have given good methods.
42:21And then again, the thing is that,
42:23like the finance minister himself says,
42:25we know our problems, we know what to do.
42:27Then why don't you do it?
42:29It's absolutely right.
42:30Bring pension reforms.
42:31Tax the real estate.
42:33Tax the salary class.
42:36Increase GST, increase indirect taxes.
42:39What do you want to do?
42:40You will kill everyone.
42:42Things won't work like this.
42:44Keep taking loans.
42:45Look, as parliamentarians,
42:47National Assembly is the assembly that passes the finance bill.
42:51As parliamentarians, as MNAs,
42:52we don't know what was going to happen.
42:54We know nothing.
42:55We don't know anything.
42:56Thank you very much, Mr. Sharmila.
42:59You were saying that things can't go on like this.
43:02Mr. Jagda is calling it a reform agenda.
43:05Anyway, there is a tsunami of inflation for the people,
43:08whose waiting and waiting is now a must.
43:12Remember this in your prayers.
43:13Good night. Allah Hafiz.