With a blend of passion, experience, and a relentless pursuit of excellence, Shan-Lyn shares her personal journey, illuminating key principles that have propelled her to the forefront of her industry. From cultivating a strong company culture to fostering innovation and resilience in the face of challenges, Shan-Lyn’s playbook is a comprehensive guide for anyone striving to make an impact as a leader.
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00:00 One of my mentors has always told me,
00:02 "Your goal as a CEO is to make yourself irrelevant."
00:06 And when I first heard that, I thought,
00:08 "A CEO is a pretty important job.
00:09 What do you mean, make myself irrelevant?"
00:11 But after thinking about it, what it means
00:13 is that you've built something
00:15 that is bigger than just yourself.
00:17 Hi, and welcome to Your Next Move,
00:22 an indispensable series produced by Inc.
00:25 and Capital One Business,
00:27 specifically for busy founders and on-the-go business owners.
00:31 In this series, you'll hear advice and insights
00:34 from incredible entrepreneurs and experts
00:37 on what goes into building
00:38 the most successful businesses today.
00:41 I'm your host, Sarah Lynch, staff reporter at Inc.
00:44 In today's episode, we're going to discuss
00:47 one of the biggest challenges for entrepreneurs,
00:50 being a great leader for your company
00:52 as your business grows and evolves.
00:55 To get things started, we have an amazing conversation
00:58 with two incredible entrepreneurs,
01:01 our founder correspondent, Ayesha Bo,
01:04 founder and CEO of Stemboard and Lingo,
01:07 and today's guest, Shanlin Ma,
01:09 co-CEO and co-founder of Zola.
01:13 Let's hear what essential wisdom Shanlin learned
01:16 while leading a high-growth company
01:18 through challenging times, expansion cycles,
01:21 and everything in between.
01:23 (upbeat music)
01:25 Since launching Zola in 2013,
01:29 you've become one of the biggest companies
01:31 in one of the biggest industries, the wedding industry.
01:34 You've also led the company through enormous growth
01:37 and are now expanding.
01:39 But before we get into that,
01:40 let's take it back to the beginning.
01:42 What was it about business that really captured your heart
01:46 from an early age?
01:47 - I think it was really the idea
01:49 that you could build something out of nothing,
01:52 also pragmatically, it was a way to earn an income,
01:56 but to be able to do it having fun.
01:59 And I was always drawn to things
02:01 where you could sell things that you had created yourself.
02:05 In high school, we created stress kits,
02:08 which were different things that we made to relieve stress,
02:11 and we just made it out of nowhere and we sold it,
02:14 and what did you know?
02:15 It did extremely well.
02:17 - So your first business was making and selling stress kits?
02:20 - Yes.
02:21 - I love it.
02:22 I might need one of those now.
02:24 I've heard that you had a picture
02:26 of one of the founders of Yahoo!
02:27 on your vision board in Australia.
02:30 Is it true?
02:30 - I am slightly embarrassed to admit that yes, it is true.
02:34 I had Kylie Minogue, I had Madonna,
02:37 and I also had Jerry Yang on my bedroom wall,
02:40 one of the founders of Yahoo!
02:42 Jerry Yang is Asian, so it connected to me
02:45 in that it felt like, well, if he can do it,
02:48 maybe I can too.
02:49 And I wanted to be just like him.
02:52 - I love to hear about the early days of Zola.
02:55 I know when I started my company over a decade ago,
02:59 I thought that I needed to know all the answers
03:02 and that my way was the best way,
03:05 and I quickly found that that was not true.
03:08 Could you share a little bit more
03:09 about your leadership journey in the early days
03:11 and how maybe it has evolved since then?
03:13 - I think the adage, you don't know what you don't know,
03:18 is so true in the earliest days of a startup.
03:22 In the early days, you just need to focus on
03:24 what are the five things you really need to nail
03:27 to reach the next milestone.
03:28 So you sometimes run around like a chicken
03:31 with its head cut off trying to achieve those things.
03:34 And what I've learned is that you should, of course,
03:38 be focused on that next milestone,
03:40 but also be thinking a few steps out.
03:42 So do everything you can to, say, launch your product,
03:46 but then think after we launch it, what's next?
03:49 What do we need to plan for
03:51 in different scenarios post-launch?
03:53 And then how can we put those pieces
03:55 into place a little bit earlier
03:57 so we're not scrambling day one of launch
04:00 to figure out what do we do next?
04:02 - I'm curious, how has your leadership style
04:04 evolved over the years?
04:06 I know that I now am very much
04:08 in the role of like chief enabler.
04:10 I'm always asking people, what do you think?
04:12 How can you contribute?
04:13 What have you learned?
04:14 - Two things that have stood out to me
04:16 that I've been trying to work on.
04:18 One is consistently set clear expectations.
04:23 Now this is hard because sometimes you think,
04:26 well, if I've communicated a vision and a strategy,
04:30 then everyone should just know what they need to do.
04:34 But that's not always the case.
04:35 I think different people at different levels
04:38 from different backgrounds need different amounts of detail
04:42 on exactly what you expect.
04:44 People aren't mind readers.
04:45 And so the more I lead, the more I work on
04:50 what's the right level of expectations
04:52 I should be sharing with the team or with the person?
04:55 And then how can I be really clear
04:57 to make sure that they are able to digest it?
04:59 The second thing is giving and receiving direct feedback.
05:04 And I think this is also extremely hard to do.
05:07 It's uncomfortable.
05:09 And yet it is, I think, one of the most important things
05:12 any leader can do.
05:13 It's the ability to, in real time, say,
05:18 I noticed you did this or you said this
05:20 or this project that you work on, it had this impact.
05:23 And then ask that for my own work.
05:25 And I think that process is how anyone grows and learns.
05:30 And it's the responsibility of leaders
05:33 to help their team do that.
05:35 When I first started leading, I thought,
05:37 well, if I provide direction, you've heard it
05:40 and I do not need to repeat it.
05:42 But I had someone say to me,
05:44 someone who's a little bit more seasoned,
05:46 well, how often have you learned things perfectly
05:49 the first time?
05:50 You probably need to hear them two or three times
05:52 before you pick it up.
05:53 And I said, okay, why don't I take a more relaxed approach
05:57 and understand that I'm not necessarily repeating myself.
06:00 I am reinforcing the direction that I provided.
06:04 And if I can do that in a supportive way,
06:06 people can actually pick up the thing
06:08 that I meant for them to learn or for them to hear.
06:11 So I think that's so powerful.
06:13 - So true.
06:14 - Let's talk hiring.
06:16 I heard that there's magic in your process.
06:19 You may be looking for more than what's on the resume.
06:22 Can you share a little bit about that?
06:23 - Well, of course we are looking for smart, talented people
06:27 with the right experience.
06:29 That's I think a given,
06:31 that's what many people are looking for.
06:32 And there's always many candidates that fit that bill.
06:36 But on top of that,
06:37 the things that are really important to us
06:39 that we try to glean from the interview process
06:43 is finding people who are humble, who are kind,
06:47 who have emotional intelligence
06:49 and are very team-oriented people.
06:52 And what we found is that when we have that combination,
06:56 that they are going to be the future leaders of Zola.
07:00 And so we're very fortunate that on our leadership team,
07:04 the majority of people have been here
07:05 for eight or more years,
07:08 which is very rare in the startup world.
07:10 But it's I think something that we really attribute to.
07:13 We love working together.
07:15 And if we can keep the bar high
07:17 in terms of not just raw intelligence,
07:19 but emotional intelligence,
07:21 then we will build a team that people are excited
07:23 to continue working with.
07:24 - We all have conflict and challenges at work.
07:28 I know I went through a corporate divorce
07:30 where a partner and I separated
07:33 and I needed to allow other people to step up
07:35 and fill the space.
07:36 And in doing so, I learned that they had a lot of gifts
07:41 that I was not allowing them to bring to the table
07:43 because I was doing so much.
07:45 - Every company goes through a crisis at least once,
07:48 whether it's a external crisis or an internal crisis.
07:53 Even in the recent years,
07:55 we've had market recession, supply chain shortages.
07:59 And what we've really done is consistently each time
08:04 followed three key steps.
08:06 So first is don't panic.
08:09 I think the worst thing that you could do is panic
08:12 because it then freezes you up
08:13 and it makes it very difficult to make clear decisions,
08:18 which you need to do very quickly in a crisis.
08:21 Yeah, I think the second thing we start with
08:23 is understanding the different scenarios
08:26 that could come out of a crisis.
08:27 So we will often map out what's a bad scenario,
08:33 a worse scenario and a worst case scenario.
08:37 And we then start to plan lastly around
08:40 what would we do in each of these scenarios?
08:42 What are actions we need to take now in any scenario,
08:46 but then what are the different set of actions
08:48 we would take depending on how things play out.
08:51 And I think when you have a clear roadmap
08:53 to change based on what is happening
08:56 both externally or internally,
08:58 it becomes much easier, less emotional.
09:02 You just can follow your guide
09:04 because you've already spent a lot of time
09:06 thinking through all the things you need to do.
09:09 Is my understanding that you also have experienced
09:12 navigating a rather challenging personal crisis?
09:15 Well, in 2016, which was just over two years
09:20 after we had started Zola,
09:22 I was in a really bad car accident.
09:24 It left me unable to move for a while.
09:28 I couldn't think clearly
09:29 and I certainly couldn't work, unfortunately,
09:32 for many months.
09:33 The funny thing about being in a car accident
09:35 is I still remember the exact moment that I was hit.
09:40 I was in excruciating pain
09:43 and what flashed through my brain was,
09:46 this is it, I'm dying.
09:49 And then the next thought that flashed through my brain is,
09:52 there's things that I haven't done yet that I have to do.
09:55 I cannot go yet.
09:57 One of those things was, I really wanna be a mother.
10:01 And so a few years later, I was able to have my daughter.
10:05 And then the next thing that flashed through my mind is,
10:09 there's so many things that I wanna do with Zola.
10:11 It gave me an understanding of why I'm working.
10:16 It gave me an understanding of,
10:18 I'm here because I want to be here
10:21 and I have a very clear vision
10:24 that we should be the company,
10:26 the go-to place that every person
10:29 kind of plans their wedding,
10:30 that serves couples going through this life stage.
10:33 And there's a lot that we have to do in order to earn that.
10:36 And I'm not done until we do this.
10:39 - Having gone through this experience,
10:41 I'm wondering how did it change how you approached,
10:44 how you viewed the things
10:45 that you wanted to accomplish in life?
10:47 - One of the big learnings in retrospect
10:50 from this experience is the importance
10:53 of having a succession plan in place well ahead of time.
10:58 And thinking about not just for myself,
11:00 but for all the leaders or the different functions
11:04 or the people in a company,
11:06 are they the only person that can do this job today?
11:10 And if so, what is the backup plan?
11:13 And additionally, are the systems in place
11:17 that allow the company to keep running
11:19 for someone else to step in?
11:21 - As a founder, I'm passionate about breaking barriers
11:24 and making it easier
11:26 for the next generation of women founders to come.
11:29 Can you share a little bit about how you see your legacy?
11:32 - When I look back one day,
11:34 I hope that I can say,
11:37 we have built a great team,
11:40 that many of which went off to then work
11:43 and do amazing things in their work after Zola,
11:46 and were successful because of many of the things
11:48 that they learned here.
11:50 And we showed that good people and good women can win big.
11:55 - What's your next move
11:56 when it comes to leading Zola into the future?
11:58 - Well, recently at Zola,
12:00 we expanded from being very focused on weddings
12:04 to launching a baby registry.
12:07 We wanna be that place that holds your hand
12:10 through the happiest moments of your life.
12:12 And so anything that that could encompass,
12:15 we wanna be there.
12:17 - What a phenomenal start to today's episode.
12:21 Next, let's hear from another expert
12:23 when it comes to leadership in business,
12:26 Karen Bonner, VP of Brand and Acquisitions Marketing
12:30 at Capital One Business.
12:32 Karen, thanks for being here with us today.
12:34 - Hi, Sarah, thank you for having me.
12:36 - Effective leaders can truly motivate
12:38 and inspire their teams where others may struggle to lead.
12:42 You believe there are some skills or attributes
12:44 that effective leaders have.
12:46 Let's talk about them.
12:47 - Yes, leaders may have very different styles,
12:51 but in general, they have some skills in common.
12:54 And the first, which is probably not surprising,
12:57 is the ability to build trust with team members.
13:00 Trust is earned over time through both words and actions.
13:05 Your team needs to feel like you are looking out
13:06 for their best interests.
13:08 And when people feel that trust, they feel safe,
13:12 which allows them to follow your lead.
13:14 - How do leaders effectively build
13:16 that trust with their team?
13:18 - I think one of the most important ways to build trust
13:20 and lead effectively is being authentic.
13:23 People will sense when you're being fake
13:25 or not being yourself, and that erodes trust.
13:28 When you show your authentic self,
13:30 even including your vulnerability
13:32 and admitting your mistakes,
13:34 your team members will feel freer
13:35 to be their own authentic selves in the workplace as well.
13:38 - You also said that listening
13:40 is one of the most important skills a leader can have.
13:43 Let's talk about that.
13:44 - Yes, I think it's common for strong leaders
13:47 to be really vocal people and do a lot of talking.
13:50 And so first it's important to be willing
13:52 to just step back, say a little bit less,
13:56 and leave space for the members of the team
13:58 to speak up and share their ideas and speak their mind.
14:01 But that's just the first part.
14:03 Listening is also about what you do with that information.
14:06 And as a leader, you have to be willing to consider
14:09 that the ideas or suggestions from the team
14:12 might be better, better solutions
14:14 than the ones you would have come up with yourself.
14:16 So deciding what to implement
14:18 when you're listening to your team
14:19 is a really important part of listening as well.
14:22 - Are there other attributes or traits of effective leaders?
14:26 - Yes, what I've seen is that really effective leaders
14:29 understand the difference between managing and leading.
14:33 Managers have a really specific role in directing a team
14:36 to achieve a specific goal or an objective,
14:39 or to ensure that a process
14:40 is running effectively and efficiently.
14:43 But leaders, on the other hand,
14:45 they motivate and enable others to grow
14:48 and develop their skills so they can contribute
14:50 to an organization in new ways.
14:52 Leaders have vision and they help inspire people,
14:55 but that's not necessarily about directing people
14:58 on exactly what to do.
14:59 - Thank you for sharing these insights
15:01 about the traits of effective leaders, Karen.
15:03 - Thank you for having me.
15:05 - Next, let's hear from my colleague
15:08 and Inc. Editor at Large, Christine Ligurio-Chapkin,
15:12 on the importance of learning how and when to delegate,
15:16 especially as your company grows.
15:18 - You've probably heard the saying
15:21 that good businesses always put the customer first.
15:24 But what if I told you there's a renowned co-founder
15:27 who didn't believe that?
15:28 Herb Kelleher helped start Southwest Airlines.
15:32 When he mentored new CEOs,
15:34 he told them to put their employees first
15:38 before customers or investors.
15:41 His logic?
15:42 A team that feels supported is more likely
15:45 to provide great service
15:47 or make great products for your customers.
15:49 And your team can also support you.
15:52 As your company grows, it's just not possible to do it all.
15:56 You'll need to start delegating.
15:58 The first step is identifying
16:00 your own strengths and weaknesses.
16:03 Maybe you're an ideas person who's only decent at coding
16:07 and you struggle with day-to-day operations.
16:10 The truth is you don't have enough time
16:11 to do everything yourself anyway.
16:14 When you hire people who can help fill those gaps,
16:18 you can be smarter about how you prioritize your time
16:20 by focusing on what you're really good at.
16:23 The second step is to empower your people
16:26 and trust their expertise.
16:28 Instead of micromanaging, get curious.
16:31 Sit with them while they work
16:32 and ask them to show you what they're doing.
16:35 When you have a deep understanding of your team's skills,
16:39 you can develop concrete, specific objectives
16:42 and key results for your company.
16:44 These can guide managers as they give employees
16:47 both positive and constructive feedback.
16:50 They can also create space for employees
16:52 to challenge you and other leaders
16:54 when the company's actions aren't matching up
16:56 with the stated OKRs.
16:58 The third key to successful delegation
17:00 is to train future leaders.
17:03 In sports, they call this building a strong bench.
17:06 The players who might be sitting on the sidelines today,
17:09 but who are getting ready to lead.
17:11 A good example is the jewelry company Brilliant Earth.
17:15 It has a tuition reimbursement benefit
17:16 that pays for employees to take courses
17:19 in topics like negotiation
17:21 and diversity, equity and inclusion principles.
17:24 Employees level up their skills
17:26 and the company benefits from their knowledge down the road
17:30 when they need to fill a leadership position.
17:33 When you identify your strengths,
17:35 empower employees and build a strong bench,
17:38 you're free to let go, delegate and grow.
17:42 I'm delighted to have the opportunity
17:45 to talk with you guys about the incredible partnership
17:48 you have as co-CEOs at Zola.
17:51 Shan, can you share a little bit about when and why
17:55 did you elevate Rachel from COO to co-CEO?
18:00 - Well, in the eight years that Rachel was working at Zola,
18:03 we really were working like partners the entire time,
18:07 equal partners.
18:08 And so at some point it felt silly
18:12 that she had a different title
18:13 when really she had been playing the role
18:16 of co-CEO the entire time.
18:18 So it wasn't a promotion.
18:20 We wanted titles to reflect the work
18:22 that was actually being done.
18:24 And this is very much a relationship
18:26 that is built on trust and respect.
18:29 And we think hopefully it makes the company a lot better.
18:32 - Let's talk a little bit about relationship maintenance.
18:36 How do you guys make time to manage your relationship
18:39 with each other?
18:40 - Rachel is married.
18:42 I am not married.
18:43 And what's funny, a funny thing happened very early on
18:47 when we started working together as partners
18:49 is Rachel told me, "You know, it would be really nice
18:53 "if occasionally you asked me about my day
18:56 "or my weekend or how I'm doing."
18:59 And she really taught me how to be a better work spouse
19:03 as well as human being.
19:05 And so I think that was the start
19:08 of a very productive relationship.
19:11 But now we're able to connect to each other
19:14 and what's happening in our personal lives
19:16 because we do know what's going on with each other.
19:18 - I think we've become very, very close.
19:20 We've known each other for 14 years now.
19:23 She's had a baby in that time.
19:26 My kids have grown up in that time.
19:29 We've had our health issues in that time.
19:31 We've had our family stresses, elderly parents.
19:35 And I think we've really been there
19:37 to support each other professionally and personally.
19:40 And I think that's one of the best things
19:42 about doing this with a partner and having a co-CEO
19:45 is that there are times when maybe you aren't feeling well,
19:50 maybe some of your family's not feeling well.
19:53 And it's so nice that you have somebody
19:56 who can pick up that burden for you
19:58 for a short period of time, who's there to support you.
20:02 - You are taking a modern day approach
20:04 to how people like to be led
20:06 and how they like to be managed,
20:07 but also to what founders need in order to be happy,
20:11 to be healthy, and to have somebody
20:12 that at the end of the day
20:14 knows what your life experience is like
20:16 and is your buddy and you can invest in.
20:19 It's very powerful because it helps you be your best
20:22 so that you can make the organization its best.
20:25 - Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
20:26 I mean, it is a roller coaster ride every day.
20:28 We have had the highest of the highs,
20:30 some of the lowest of the lows.
20:32 I personally would not want to do that alone right now.
20:35 I'm very happy to have Shan.
20:37 I mean, we both could go easily
20:39 and be CEOs of our own companies,
20:41 but we choose every day,
20:42 like actively choose to do this together.
20:44 And I've never for a second thought,
20:47 I want to do this without her.
20:49 I'm just so grateful that we can do it together.
20:52 - Are there any other ways
20:53 that you apply non-traditional approaches
20:56 and you found that they've worked for you?
20:58 - Well, one thing we do or I do is try to make people laugh
21:02 and you have to bring laughter to some very tense situations.
21:06 And I think, we've had so many examples
21:09 where we are just having a very stressful week
21:12 and we just make each other laugh
21:13 and it just feels so much better.
21:15 When we were fundraising in Silicon Valley a few years ago,
21:20 we went to the same hole in the wall restaurant,
21:23 we ordered big plates of food
21:25 and we would sit there and eat these giant plates of food
21:27 and just laugh and make each other feel better
21:29 about the events of the day.
21:32 And that's what you need.
21:33 That's the support you need to keep going.
21:36 - Can you talk a little bit about how you navigate
21:39 and how you share roles as co-CEOs?
21:42 - First, you have to have very clear roles
21:44 and responsibilities of how decisions are made
21:47 and when do you make decisions together or separately.
21:51 Second is very aligned vision on where you both see
21:55 the future growth and trajectory of the company.
21:58 And lastly, it's important you have a united front.
22:02 So we never disagree in public,
22:06 but of course there's topics
22:08 where you may have different opinions
22:10 and we always try to take those conversations offline,
22:13 navigate those together before we kind of bring
22:17 our united point of view to anyone else.
22:20 - So no arguments in front of the children.
22:22 - Never.
22:23 - The debate and different points of view
22:25 is an important part of the process.
22:27 It's one of the reasons diverse teams
22:30 bring better business outcomes,
22:32 it's because you have that debate.
22:34 And so it's a key part of the process.
22:36 We embrace it rather than shun it.
22:39 - Yeah, I'd like to think that I'm right all the time
22:43 and it's really actually very helpful
22:45 to have somebody to balance that.
22:47 And there have been many times
22:49 where I was a hundred percent convinced I was right.
22:51 And I've heard from Shan or from other leaders,
22:54 I've heard their point of view
22:56 and I've been able to change my point of view
22:59 and realize that you're not always right all the time,
23:02 just 99.9% of the time.
23:05 We also have very complimentary skill sets.
23:10 Our skills don't really overlap.
23:12 And I think that makes us a better company
23:14 because we can each bring different things to the table.
23:17 And we really try very hard not to be in the same meetings
23:21 at the same time, unless absolutely necessary.
23:24 And so that allows our team to move very quickly
23:28 because obviously one person can't be
23:31 in every place at one time.
23:33 And it's a lot quicker for two people to divide that up.
23:36 And so I think we actually move at a very, very fast pace.
23:40 And we think similarly about Zola,
23:43 about our mission, about the world in general,
23:46 our values are very aligned.
23:48 And I think that that really helps us come across
23:51 to the company and to the world
23:54 as the two best people to lead Zola.
23:57 - I'd love to know if there's like an example
24:00 of something that you've learned from Shan
24:02 and something that Shan you've learned from Rachel.
24:05 - Well, I really admire how Shan dissects the problems,
24:09 whereas I'm sometimes more of a gut person.
24:12 And so over the years, I have emulated some of that
24:15 and learned to slow down and be sure that I'm thinking
24:18 about all angles of the problem.
24:20 I think Shan's very good when she disagrees
24:23 about projecting passion,
24:25 but keeping it at a very calm level.
24:30 - You know, one of the things that I've really learned
24:32 from Rachel, you can never be too prepared.
24:34 Rachel is the person who prepares us
24:37 for every single scenario,
24:39 every single question we could possibly be asked.
24:42 You better be sure that we have practiced our presentation
24:47 50 ways since Sunday, and it's what separates,
24:50 I think, good from great.
24:52 - For those out there who may be thinking about co-CEOing,
24:56 can you maybe provide some things to think about?
24:59 - I think you really have to be honest with yourself
25:02 about whether you can handle having a partner.
25:05 And a lot of it comes down to ego.
25:08 And you really have to be aware of your own ego.
25:11 I would say that neither of us has any ego.
25:16 We just wanna do what is best for Zola at all times.
25:19 And if you know that about yourself
25:22 and you know that about your co-leader, it's going to work.
25:25 But you need to be honest with yourself
25:27 because if you have the ego
25:29 and you want to be the one making all the decisions,
25:32 which is completely acceptable way to lead,
25:35 that it's not gonna work for you.
25:37 - Shan and Rachel, thank you so much for having me here.
25:39 I've loved learning more about your journey
25:42 from founding Zola to co-CEOing.
25:44 It's been a wonderful conversation.
25:46 We're really looking forward to your next move.
25:49 - What an inspiring conversation.
25:52 A huge thank you to Aisha and Shan Lin
25:55 for sharing their time and expertise with all of us today.
26:00 Now let's head back to Christine for some final advice
26:03 on how a founder's role needs to shift
26:05 as their company grows.
26:07 It's a necessary evolution,
26:09 but these changes aren't always easy for everyone.
26:12 - Okay, picture this.
26:15 It's 2019 and fashion designer Tori Burch
26:18 is at the top of her game.
26:20 She's built a huge business and is CEO of an iconic brand.
26:25 And what does she do?
26:27 She steps down as CEO.
26:29 She hands off all day-to-day responsibilities
26:32 and focuses instead on the design and creative process.
26:37 Since then, fashion writers have praised her designers
26:40 and her retail empire has continued to grow.
26:43 A founder's role changes significantly
26:46 when a company grows past the initial startup stage.
26:49 It might mean a major shift in focus
26:52 and it can be a shock to some founders.
26:54 So let's get into some tips
26:56 for how to navigate this transition.
26:59 As a founder, you're probably used to presenting
27:01 for every demo, sales pitch, and meeting.
27:04 But as your company grows, you just can't do it all.
27:08 So your role needs to evolve along with your company.
27:12 Perhaps you'll have more time to consider big picture plans
27:15 and how to turn internal stakeholders into leaders.
27:19 And unless you leave your company entirely,
27:22 you'll likely remain the chief evangelist of your business.
27:26 No one can explain a business like its founder, after all.
27:29 But here are some things to keep in mind.
27:31 If you delegate more,
27:33 expect to be removed from the nitty gritty
27:35 and spend more time nurturing your team.
27:39 Speaking of your team,
27:40 your company's hiring practices will likely shift as well.
27:44 Early on, startups often hire people with a wide skillset
27:49 who can take on lots of different projects.
27:52 But as companies grow and projects get more complex,
27:55 it can be more efficient to bring in specialists.
27:58 The generalists on your team will need to learn
28:00 how to adapt to this new structure
28:02 and it's your job to help them get there.
28:05 Sometimes that might mean letting go
28:07 of day-to-day management altogether
28:09 and leaning into the power of networking groups
28:12 and founder-focused communities to help you identify
28:15 the next generation of leaders for your company.
28:19 It requires an honest assessment of your own skills.
28:22 Here's how Craigslist co-founder Craig Newmark describes it.
28:26 - People were kind enough to help me understand
28:29 that as a manager, I suck and I needed to find people
28:33 who might be much better at it than I was.
28:35 They were suggesting that maybe I didn't have
28:39 the right skill mix to be CEO and they were right.
28:43 - Effective leaders know when it's time to shift focus
28:48 and when it's time to start hiring more specialists
28:52 and when it might be time to scale back.
28:55 Back to you, Sarah.
28:58 Well, that's all the time we have for today.
29:00 We hope you've enjoyed this episode
29:02 and all that we've learned from Inc. Editor-at-Large,
29:04 Christine LaGoria Chafkin,
29:06 our founder correspondent, Aisha Bowe,
29:09 our guest, Shanlin Ma,
29:11 and our Capital One Business expert, Karen Bonner.
29:14 I'm your host, Sarah Lynch for Inc. Business Media
29:17 and Capital One Business.
29:19 Thanks so much for watching.
29:20 We look forward to seeing you again soon.
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