Can England really win Euro 2024? Should Scotland be optimistic about their chances of reaching the knock-out rounds? Join our panel of experts to find out.
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00:00 And yeah, it's not a huge step up, is it?
00:03 I mean, maybe you're getting Eddie Howe away from Newcastle.
00:06 I don't know.
00:07 I'm certainly going to be interested to see what direction England go in after Southgate.
00:11 Yeah, I think it's just a great shame that Wayne Rooney spoke in Pornhub, but there we go.
00:15 Hello, I'm Matthew Gregory and welcome to We Can Be Euros.
00:23 This week, with little more than a week to go before things kick off in Germany,
00:27 we're going to look at England and Scotland's chances of success and find out what the first
00:30 warm-up match has taught us. To help me out, I'm joined, as always, by some expert guests.
00:35 National World's Liverpool and Everton correspondent George Priestman,
00:38 and the sports editor for Glasgow World and the Edinburgh Evening News, Martin Simpson.
00:42 We'll come to Scotland a little bit later. George, I just wanted to start by taking a look at
00:46 England. There's obviously a lot of pressure on Gareth Southgate to bring home a trophy this time.
00:49 What do you think of England's chances right now?
00:54 Yeah, they're right up there. For me, I probably have them as joint favourites of France. I think
01:00 you have to give France that leeway because of just how they've performed the last two major
01:04 tournaments. Their squad has basically been virtually unchanged across quite a long spell,
01:12 really. Four or five years, they kind of kept that same core and just really littered in the
01:16 young players when they're ready. So, they've got great chemistry. Southgate has tried to do that
01:22 the same over the years. He's built that same core and obviously brought in players like Bellingham
01:27 and Foden at the right time. He's got a sprinkling of young players now that's come into the line-up
01:32 that seems to have just boosted England even more. I think England probably have the best squad on
01:39 paper. France are probably second in that sort of list. He's got so much quality to deal with.
01:47 I think the key for him is just making sure he picks a settled 11 as he can throughout the
01:53 tournament and only really tinker in the group stages. I'd say you don't want to be tinkering
01:58 the knockout stages too much because they're games you have to play your best 11. But in the group
02:03 stages, I think it could be really key for the tournament to just make sure he brings in the
02:07 quality that I mentioned that have been sprinkled into the squad this time around.
02:13 When you talk about tinkering, we obviously saw quite a lot of the backups,
02:16 the possible alternatives on Monday evening in the 3-0 win against Bosnia and Herzegovina.
02:21 Did anyone stand out to you? Was there anything there that worried you about some of the depth
02:25 that England have? The depth only really is a worry at the back, I'd say. Especially at centre-back.
02:33 I don't know why Jarrett Brantway didn't start. It wasn't if Bosnia were going to pose any sort
02:39 of real threat. It's not a team from years gone by where they had a lot of talented players who
02:44 played in the top five leagues. It was a very weak team that came there and barely laid a
02:48 glove on England. That was a perfect game from the start. He doesn't get many chances. He's only
02:53 going to have one more game. He's probably been the best English centre-back this season other than
02:58 John Stones, but he's probably put together the best all-round season.
03:02 It doesn't matter about his age and experience. I know that's a really big thing in tournaments,
03:05 but yesterday was just the perfect chance for him to start. We've already seen Margot,
03:09 we've already seen Louis Dunck, we know what they can do and what they can't do as well. I just don't
03:13 know why he didn't start him yesterday. Adam Wharton was absolutely sensational. I think he
03:17 might have played himself into a, maybe even above Kobi Meynew, to be honest, after yesterday's
03:21 performance. He looks absolutely incredible. I'm a Blackburn Rovers fan, so I got to watch him come
03:28 through the academy ranks and break into the first team. I think we've known for a while he's an
03:32 extraordinary talent, just so composed. He's such a wonderful player. I think that's what puts him
03:37 ahead of someone like Meynew, because he's had that championship experience.
03:40 Maybe he's played more games, certainly. It's tricky because Meynew has also come into the
03:47 Man United set-up and looks incredibly composed. They both play the ball extremely well, they both
03:53 do their defensive duties extremely well. It's a nice problem for England to have a couple of
03:57 players who can fill in that role alongside Declan Rice and do it, apparently, with so much aplomb.
04:03 Martin, I just wanted to bring you here in. From a Scottish perspective,
04:06 when you look at the England squad, what do you see? Do you see potential title winners,
04:11 or do you see a team who've got some flaws that need to be ironed out?
04:13 Potential title winners, yes. Actual title winners, hmm.
04:21 If history's any guise.
04:23 The way I look at it is England, I think, that friendly against Scotland last year was the point
04:32 where I saw Jude Bellingham and thought that is probably currently, and for the next 10 years,
04:39 the best central midfielder in world football. He's an absolutely sensational player, just
04:44 class in every aspect. Then you add in someone like Phil Foden coming off the back of an excellent
04:51 season, Declan Rice, a very solid, top-level, sort of, holding midfielder. Beyond that, though,
05:01 I'm less convinced. I think if you take, I know England are probably the bookmakers' favourites,
05:08 but if you look at France, they would be my favourites. I think if you do
05:11 a combined 11 between England and France, you're going Bellingham, Foden, and then nine French
05:21 players. That's just my opinion. Yeah, I just, and the depth as well, I just don't see it for
05:28 England. I think if you take Bellingham and Foden out of that team, you go from potential title
05:35 winners to quarter-finalists. That's just my take from that. Well, it's a tricky thing, of course,
05:43 because you look at the way the draw is set up. If England and France both sort of play as expected.
05:48 The very English thing to look at the way the draw is set up.
05:51 I know, I know. It's the horrible English arrogance coming in all of about five minutes
05:56 into the episode. But there is a pretty solid chance that England and France play each other
06:01 in the quarter-finals. And I suppose, you know, there's this weird thing where a lot of people
06:05 are saying Gareth Southgate has to win this tournament in order to have been considered
06:09 a success as England manager. But surely, you know, if they go out to the quarter-final stages
06:13 to France, who are by any standards a hell of a side, I personally think you can't necessarily
06:18 blame England or Gareth Southgate for that. I mean, do you, from your perspective, Martin,
06:22 do you think Gareth Southgate needs to win this tournament to actually sort of be considered a
06:26 success or is it not as clear cut as that? From my perspective, no, I would say Gareth
06:32 Southgate's the best England manager of my 30 odd years on this planet.
06:37 So I mean, if you're an England fan, you're saying success is winning a tournament.
06:45 And don't get me wrong, with the quality of players that England have produced over the past
06:51 three, four, five decades, then yeah, they absolutely should go into every tournament
06:55 aiming to win that. I know a lot of people in Scotland will say that that's the English
07:01 arrogance that we like to kind of tongue in cheek talk about, but pretty much, I think,
07:07 maybe nine of the last 10 tournaments, England, or certainly every Euros England should go in
07:13 thinking they've got a really good chance of winning it. And most World Cups, they should
07:18 certainly be going in as contenders in most people's eyes. But so I get the argument that
07:25 if you don't win a trophy, then you can't be classed as a success. But relative to his
07:31 predecessors, the consistency that England have shown under Southgate is what makes them a success.
07:37 And in my sort of view, as I said, from the outside looking in as a Scotland fan.
07:42 Yeah, George, I mean, what do you think of Gareth Southgate's tenure? Because I have to admit,
07:47 I'd agree largely with Martin, I think he's been a huge step up from a lot of the previous
07:51 managers we've had. I think we've we may not have won a tournament, but we've been consistently
07:55 far better than we have been for so many years. But do you think he's sort of going things about
08:01 the right way? There's obviously a lot of people who think he's too conservative, that he doesn't
08:04 know how to change games with substitutes or in the second half well enough. You know, you look
08:07 at the last Euros, the final against Italy, when he couldn't really find a way to change the tone
08:11 of the match. Are you worried about sort of Southgate's performance or how you know how
08:15 good he is going into this tournament? Yeah, I mean, the worry is just that he doesn't stand up
08:22 next to the sort of better managers in the competition, really. I think that's always
08:27 been the worry that he hasn't had that nows really that a top manager has to see him through games
08:32 like that, the Italy game. I think perhaps if there was a more knowledgeable, more experienced
08:36 manager at that level, he might have been able to manage that a lot better. But what he's done
08:41 over the years, he's brought that feeling back to England where we can truly believe in a team
08:45 because of the setup he's made. You know, the idea of the golden generation being quite clicky and
08:51 kind of not really liking each other and sort of sitting on different tables and groups and
08:54 stuff. That's all gone, you know, under Southgate's reign. You know, he's managed to bring
08:59 a togetherness in the squad and that togetherness is what's driven them forward into, you know,
09:03 semifinals, finals and what have you. So from that perspective, he's done absolutely more than
09:08 anyone could have ever expected. When he was brought in, I just thought potentially it was
09:12 going to be a short-term thing, but because of the success that he'd built up over the years,
09:18 and that's coincided with just a brilliant generation of young players coming through
09:22 over the last four or five years, which is now culminating in this squad that we're looking at,
09:27 which is absolutely sensational. You're going to hear that over the next few weeks about how good
09:31 England's squad is. It's just true. It's just all come at the right time. And I know that they've
09:36 still got time after this tournament and the tournament after with the players' ages to go
09:39 and win things. I don't think all the complete pressure is on this tournament, but when you look
09:44 at the chances, you're not going to get much better than this one really. And like I said, France is
09:48 the worry as always, because they're kind of the main rivals for us. And if they could overcome
09:53 that in the quarterfinals, then Christ, who knows? That should be the real push that you need to go
09:59 and win this. But for Southgate, I mean, if it's his last tournament, he'll want to go out with a
10:03 bang. And from what he's, I think he's deserved to go out with a bang really from what he's done
10:08 for English football across the last five years. I think just on that, obviously with the France
10:18 thing, France are the big opposition, but again, there's nothing about this England team. For me,
10:24 this England team, if you put them in a match against say Portugal or even, well, or Spain or
10:31 Italy or the Netherlands or Belgium or Croatia or whoever, their favorites, I wouldn't put them as
10:37 favorites against France. And the way Germany looked against Ukraine there the other night,
10:43 with home advantage, I would make Germany very, very narrow favorites against England at the
10:49 moment. So there's nothing about England at the moment that suggests to me, if they beat France,
10:56 then the tournament's theirs to lose. Because although I do think player for player, pound
11:02 for pound, they're better than most of the other teams in the competition, like Portugal, like
11:06 Spain, like Italy, none of those games are going to be a walkover. On the Gareth Southgate issue,
11:14 I don't ever think it's a good idea to see who else is out there if we get rid of our manager.
11:21 We know Gareth Southgate's going obviously. And England fans might be thinking, well,
11:25 Klopp's available for the time being, Guardiola's come into his last year at Man City. But
11:30 realistically, what are we talking about? We're talking about Graeme Potter. Graeme Potter's a
11:35 great coach. But it's not a huge step up, is it? I mean, maybe you're getting Eddie Howe away from
11:41 Newcastle. I don't know. I'm certainly going to be interested to see what direction England go
11:46 in after Southgate. Yeah, I think it's just a great shame that Wayne Rooney's spoken for now,
11:51 but there we go.
12:02 Well, we've spoken at length about England's chances of Euro 2024, so it's time to take
12:11 a closer look at how Scotland will get on in Germany. Martin, there was obviously a lot of
12:15 optimism not all that long ago when Scotland won their first five games in qualifying and
12:20 beating Spain in the process. Since then, things haven't been quite so good. There's been seven
12:24 games without a win before the warm-up game against Gibraltar, which they edged 2-0. At this
12:29 point, are you optimistic about Scotland's chances? I think the whole country's optimistic. I don't
12:35 think anything's... The Northern Ireland result is probably the only one that really did anything to
12:40 dent that. I mean, you're talking about going on that run at the start, and I think basically
12:46 everyone in the country has been absolutely buzzing since we beat Spain at Hampden. And
12:50 then that night in Oslo, which will go down in history, where we're Kenny McLean's winner.
12:55 But then you look at even the result in Spain, that came off the back of a... I'm not even going
13:02 to say controversial, a wrong and incorrect VAR decision that cost Scotland a really good result
13:09 in that. And since then, yeah, things have not been as good. But we're all kind of hoping that
13:17 the Northern Ireland result was a bit of a blip, because that's the only performance really that's
13:24 caused us a lot of concern and has done anything, I would say, to dent that optimism. I mean,
13:32 looking at the warm-up game we just had against Gibraltar, I mean, it's a funny one because it
13:36 seems like quite a low standard of opposition to play at this point. You know, in a 2-0 win,
13:40 it was pretty comfortable, but it wasn't necessarily an extraordinarily strong performance.
13:45 Do you think Steve Clarke will have learned anything from that game, or do you think it
13:49 was a mistake to have a game at that kind of level this close to the tournament?
13:52 No, it wasn't a mistake. No, it wasn't about learning anything. I honestly think it was
13:57 just about getting minutes into the legs of players who needed it. You look at someone
14:02 like Grant Hanley, who's a very important player for Scotland, our most experienced centre-back,
14:08 has spent most of this season injured, has played eight minutes of first-team football since March
14:14 before the game against Gibraltar. It was about that. It was about getting minutes in their legs.
14:20 It was a training exercise more than a friendly match. So it definitely wasn't... there was no
14:25 mistake playing them. Scotland... and the performance itself, yeah, Scotland dominated
14:31 possession, shots, corners. There was a real cutting edge in the final thirds, which is going
14:37 to be a concern. I mean, Che Adams comes on, scores with a sensational finish. I think that's put to
14:44 bed any conversation about who starts up front against Germany, because Lawrence Shankland
14:49 didn't take his chances last night. But he'll bounce back from that, because Lawrence Shankland
14:53 is a terrific player. He's been absolutely sensational for Hearts this season, and he is
14:58 certainly someone who Steve Clarke can utilise in the tournament. But I think Che Adams is going
15:03 to be the go-to player. Lyndon Dykes getting injured is just a huge, huge loss for Scotland.
15:10 We don't have any players that can be like-for-like replacements for him. He's a fan favourite.
15:16 Everyone's just gutted. Even off the pitch, he's one of these guys that all of our players talk
15:22 about as just a real character, a real... a great guy to have in the dressing room.
15:27 We don't know at the time if there's going to be someone called up to replace him.
15:30 I would think there is. Bristol's Tommy Conway seems to be the person they're talking about.
15:35 Scored for Scotland's under-21s against Turkey last night. No senior experience, but that hasn't
15:42 stopped Steve Clarke before. He threw Nathan Patterson and Billy Gilmore in at the deep end
15:47 at the last Euros, and that worked out sensationally, as we saw with a 0-0 win
15:52 against England at Wembley. So I think Conway will be the guy that he goes with,
16:00 but there are arguments for Ross Stewart and even Ollie McBurney. McBurney, I would be very surprised
16:07 to see him make a return, so I think it's probably between Conway and Stewart if he does call up
16:11 another striker. But I think, as Steve Clarke himself said, the main thing about last night's
16:17 match with Gibraltar was just to avoid injuries and to get certain players back up to speed.
16:23 Obviously Liam Cooper goes down with an injury, but Clarke was optimistic after the match that
16:29 there's nothing in that. Even if they did lose Liam Cooper, it's a blow. Losing any player from
16:35 your squad at this stage is a blow, but it's not the big swinging haymaker to the chin that losing
16:41 Lyndon Dykes was. It's losing your first back-up centre-half, which you'd still rather not.
16:48 But Cooper's a player that's been involved in a lot of Scotland's squads, and he's a
16:52 solid option in central defence for Scotland, left-footed as well, although Scotland aren't
17:00 short on those. But yes, so fingers crossed for him. And then we've got the game against
17:05 Finland coming up, so that is a) a chance for the players to get a send-off at Hampden, but
17:12 it's probably about as important as a friendly can be in this day and age, because you're right,
17:17 there's no confidence been gained from that Gibraltar result. Equally, I don't think the
17:21 confidence will have been dented in any way. And Clarke always says that they're a confident bunch
17:26 anyway, and results don't really put them up or down in terms of that. But probably just for the
17:32 mood amongst the fans, you'd like a convincing win over a respectable side like Finland.
17:40 Yeah, George, I'll bring you in here for a moment. I'll sort of get your perspective on what you
17:45 think Scotland's chances are. I mean, Martin mentioned injuries a few times. Obviously,
17:49 you've got the knock to Liam Cooper, Lyndon Dykes out of the tournament, Lewis Ferguson's going to
17:54 be out for six months, he won't play any part after a wonderful season for Bologna. Aaron Hickey
17:58 and Nathan Paterson both out, which has made right back a little bit of a problem. Do you think
18:02 injuries are going to be too big of a problem for Scotland at this tournament? And how do you see
18:07 them stacking up against teams like Hungary and Switzerland? I know we don't necessarily expect
18:11 much against Germany. Any result there would be an extraordinary result for Scotland just because
18:15 of Bologna's opposition. But how do you think they stack up against their other group stage opponents?
18:19 Yeah, with the injuries, it's always tough for someone like Scotland, because they only have
18:26 a set amount of players that can really perform at that level. And when they get a couple of
18:30 injuries to players like that, it's hard to replace that quality. So that's a real shame,
18:34 because there is a decent core that they've built there across with Robertson, Gilmour, McGinn,
18:40 McTominay and players like that. So it's a shame they don't have the full strength to go in and
18:45 give it a full go. But in terms of the other two teams in the group, I mean, Hungary have been
18:52 slowly compound a very strong, unbeaten record across the last few years of international games.
18:58 They haven't got many star standout players, obviously Dominic Zalasaj of Liverpool and
19:03 Milos Kirk is a bomber for the two that probably people will know the most. But in general,
19:08 they're built on really a togetherness and they run themselves into the ground to get results.
19:13 And that's why they're unbeaten over the last one and a half, two years across.
19:18 Yeah, they absolutely beat England not that long ago as well.
19:22 Yeah, exactly. I kind of forgot about that one. But that's true that they're a good side. They're
19:27 very tough to beat, you know, and that will be a very tough game. But of course, there's chances
19:32 there. Because like I said, if you look at it player for player, they're not that much stronger
19:37 really. And overall, they just have a couple of standout names and obviously that real commitment
19:42 together. But even someone like Switzerland, I think, has probably regressed over the last
19:45 few years. I mean, we saw them in competitions over the last six, seven, eight years. They've
19:50 been really good value when they gave France, they're brilliant against France. And they've
19:55 shown over the years, the likes of Shaqiri have always shown up in these big tournaments. But
20:01 if you look at the quality, I mean, they are the likes of obviously Jan Sommer,
20:04 Akanji, Shah and Granit Xhaka and Noah Okafor were sort of the standout names there again.
20:10 But after that, they're not as strong as they used to be. And they're a team that you could
20:16 easily get out to be honest. I mean, they've not had the most glowing record across the last,
20:21 across the qualification, across recent games, they snuck past Ireland in their most recent
20:25 friendly. But other than that, they're not really been that impressive. So again,
20:29 if Scotland can just make sure they put out a very solid team, try and keep the same sort of
20:35 start on 11. And hopefully a little bit of luck goes away. They could easily find a way past
20:40 someone like Switzerland that may be hungry if they're not 100% on it. But it's still a very
20:45 tough group on paper because you would have liked you'd have hoped there'd be someone else in that
20:50 group who wouldn't have been as strong as those two. But it's still chances there. And of course,
20:55 nothing's done on paper. The game's not won on paper. It's the European Championships,
21:00 anything can happen. But they are going to need obviously a little bit of luck to get through what
21:04 is a tough group. Do you know the player that gives me the most concern in the Switzerland squad?
21:12 That's probably Gregor Coble. Because Scotland has shown a lack of cutting edge and not just in
21:21 that game against Gibraltar, but it's something that's kind of played them quite a bit under
21:25 Steve Clarke, where they have matches where they get chance after chance after chance, and it's
21:30 just a little bit wasteful. And you can afford to be wasteful sometimes when you're playing well.
21:36 But when a team has a keeper of that quality, who when you're maybe only going to get three,
21:43 possibly four clear cut sites at goal all game, and you've got a keeper that can just produce
21:51 world class save again and again to deny them that that's going to get under Scotland's skin.
21:56 And it's going to be something that really kind of with the fans, I'm not saying it's going to
22:03 make them turn or anything, but it's the kind of thing where you're having great opportunities
22:07 where really you should be scoring, but the keeper's pulling off great saves and you get
22:12 that feeling of maybe it's not our day. But I would dig you up on one thing, Matt, is I don't
22:17 think as good as Germany are and as important as home advantage is going to be, I'm probably more
22:23 optimistic for that game than I am for either of the two games. Just because firstly, you're in a
22:28 no-lose scenario really, because no one is expecting Scotland to do anything. But there is a
22:34 cautious optimism there, because I think when we play teams that are expected to dominate possession
22:39 and kind of control the game, that's when we're at our best, because we're really good, great
22:45 counter-attacking options, like Che Adams is a pacey striker. He's not quite as pacey as Timo
22:50 Werner, who's a player who I foresee causing Scotland problems. But overall, there's obviously
22:57 quality players in the German team like Sane and Moussa Allah, but there's no Mbappé, there's no
23:02 Griezmann. It's good players, but not Ballon d'Or contending world beaters. And for me, I like that,
23:12 because Scotland, we're kind of expecting they're going to play Gilmore and MacGregor together,
23:18 sacrifice a Ryan Christie, for example, have that extra sort of deeper lion man in midfield who can
23:26 break up the German play in the middle of the park, try and get a foothold there and just
23:32 spray passes out to Robertson and whoever ends up being in the right back position.
23:36 I think it's a game that Scotland probably, if we're talking quietly here, not really saying it
23:45 out loud, probably have a decent enough chance at maybe snatching a draw or even a shot win.
23:52 [Whistle]