Outlook's Editor Chinki Sinha in a conversation with Sanjay Tickoo, a member of the Kashmiri Pandit Sangharsh Samiti. He navigates through the complexities of identity, displacement, and the socio-political landscape of Kashmir. The conversation delves into the intricate tapestry of emotions, experiences, and perspectives that shape the Kashmiri narrative.
Videographer: Manpreet Romana
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#Kashmir #KashmiriPandits #JammuKashmir #Identity #Displacement
Videographer: Manpreet Romana
Follow us:
Website: https://www.outlookindia.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Outlookindia
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/outlookindia/
X: https://twitter.com/Outlookindia
Whatsapp: https://whatsapp.com/channel/0029VaNrF3v0AgWLA6OnJH0R
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@OutlookMagazine
Dailymotion: https://www.dailymotion.com/outlookindia
#Kashmir #KashmiriPandits #JammuKashmir #Identity #Displacement
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NewsTranscript
00:00 (soft music)
00:02 (soft music)
00:04 (speaking in foreign language)
00:14 - That's number one.
00:27 Number two, (speaking in foreign language)
00:31 that never ever happened in the valley.
00:33 - Yeah.
00:34 Yeah, I saw that interview of yours you gave also.
00:37 (speaking in foreign language)
00:42 - We faced the two guns.
00:51 One is the state gun and one is the non-state gun.
00:55 Every Kashmiri who's living in the valley,
00:59 face two guns and we are still facing the two guns.
01:03 The way I will talk only one gun.
01:08 - Yeah.
01:09 - Because that benefits me.
01:11 Because then I take the revenge against the other party.
01:16 So is vis-a-vis with the majority community also.
01:18 - That is true.
01:19 (speaking in foreign language)
01:24 (speaking in foreign language)
01:28 (speaking in foreign language)
01:33 (speaking in foreign language)
01:38 (speaking in foreign language)
01:43 (speaking in foreign language)
01:47 (speaking in foreign language)
01:51 (speaking in foreign language)
01:56 (speaking in foreign language)
02:00 (speaking in foreign language)
02:04 (speaking in foreign language)
02:33 - There was never a community born
02:35 between the two communities.
02:38 - Why?
02:39 Why there was no?
02:39 - Right from 1931,
02:42 (speaking in foreign language)
02:46 it was Muslim conference,
02:52 then it became the national conference.
02:54 (speaking in foreign language)
02:55 They divide us into the two.
02:57 - Two parts.
02:58 - Two parts.
02:59 We have been given the label of Jansinghi
03:02 as Indians.
03:04 (speaking in foreign language)
03:08 And the largest section of the Muslims
03:11 were given the Pakistani
03:12 because they are pro-Pakistani.
03:15 (speaking in foreign language)
03:19 To remain in their power.
03:27 (speaking in foreign language)
03:30 To remain in their power,
03:32 they are using Bhagwan Shri Ram's name.
03:35 They are using that CA as on date.
03:40 They are using POK as on date.
03:43 As they can to remain in their power.
03:46 And so was with the Congress also.
03:49 (speaking in foreign language)
03:53 (speaking in foreign language)
03:56 If you go to the history after 1947,
04:06 (speaking in foreign language)
04:11 as compared to the BJP rule.
04:13 (speaking in foreign language)
04:17 It was not BJP.
04:19 It was not RSS.
04:20 It was Congress basically.
04:22 (speaking in foreign language)
04:26 And so was with our exodus also.
04:31 Because Congress failed to come forward at that time.
04:34 Because Kashmiri Pundits was always with the Congress.
04:37 90% Kashmiris were--
04:40 - With the Congress.
04:40 - With the Congress before '90.
04:42 (speaking in foreign language)
04:48 (speaking in foreign language)
04:52 The RSS and Hindu,
05:07 Hindu wings took the advantage.
05:09 (speaking in foreign language)
05:14 It can be used for the longer run for the BJP and RSS.
05:19 That's why they came forward.
05:21 (speaking in foreign language)
05:25 And they showed that.
05:26 And Congress failed to--
05:28 - Utilize.
05:29 - Utilize that.
05:31 That's why KPs are against the Congress as on date.
05:36 (speaking in foreign language)
05:40 (speaking in foreign language)
05:44 - The thing is they haven't done anything
05:48 but (speaking in foreign language)
05:52 (speaking in foreign language)
05:56 - Basically that's the organization in Delhi.
06:01 That's called the All India Kashmiri Samaj.
06:04 (speaking in foreign language)
06:09 So there was a direction from the honorable Supreme Court
06:13 to the government of India
06:14 to look the demands made by the prisoners.
06:19 (speaking in foreign language)
06:36 That was basically an encroachment
06:39 for the policy makers at Delhi.
06:45 (speaking in foreign language)
06:49 It is a national project which was started
07:03 by the UPA government, not by this government.
07:06 (speaking in foreign language)
07:10 And so it's vis-a-vis with the Kashmiri prints also
07:22 or with the Kashmir or with the entire India also.
07:25 (speaking in foreign language)
07:29 (speaking in foreign language)
07:33 Or they cannot compare '92 with 2014 or 2019.
07:42 (speaking in foreign language)
07:47 So because economically India is growing, no doubt.
07:54 (speaking in foreign language)
07:58 (speaking in foreign language)
08:02 (speaking in foreign language)
08:07 - You are the 1,200th person.
08:19 - I know, I know, but it has a link to the thing
08:22 that happened in Delhi.
08:23 (speaking in foreign language)
08:28 (speaking in foreign language)
08:30 From both the side, state and non-state.
08:32 - Now you talked about the state guard
08:33 and the non-state guard, yeah.
08:34 - Yes, yes, yes.
08:36 And in one day, in the month of June, 1990,
08:40 (speaking in foreign language)
08:44 Then I went to, I remember I went to Naaz here,
08:49 Iqbal, Iqbal, Iqbal Garden, Naaz.
08:55 (speaking in foreign language)
08:59 (speaking in foreign language)
09:04 (speaking in foreign language)
09:08 (speaking in foreign language)
09:12 (speaking in foreign language)
09:16 As soon as I cross Barbarshah,
09:40 (speaking in foreign language)
09:44 I don't know.
09:54 (speaking in foreign language)
09:59 (speaking in foreign language)
10:03 (speaking in foreign language)
10:07 (speaking in foreign language)
10:11 (speaking in foreign language)
10:16 (speaking in foreign language)
10:19 (speaking in foreign language)
10:23 (speaking in foreign language)
10:27 (speaking in foreign language)
10:32 (speaking in foreign language)
10:37 (laughing)
10:39 (speaking in foreign language)
10:43 That's not only for the KPs,
11:03 but for the Muslims as well.
11:05 (coughing)
11:07 That's why eight families stayed back in the village.
11:10 (speaking in foreign language)
11:14 (speaking in foreign language)
11:19 (coughing)
11:20 We have all the records.
11:22 (speaking in foreign language)
11:26 (speaking in foreign language)
11:30 (speaking in foreign language)
11:33 Because they were not thinking.
11:51 (speaking in foreign language)
11:55 (speaking in foreign language)
11:59 (speaking in foreign language)
12:04 (speaking in foreign language)
12:08 (speaking in foreign language)
12:12 (speaking in foreign language)
12:16 (speaking in foreign language)
12:20 (speaking in foreign language)
12:24 (speaking in foreign language)
12:28 (speaking in foreign language)
12:32, no, no. (speaking in foreign language)
12:37 (speaking in foreign language)
12:41 (coughing)
13:03 (speaking in foreign language)
13:07 (speaking in foreign language)
13:12 (speaking in foreign language)
13:15 (speaking in foreign language)
13:19 (speaking in foreign language)
13:23 (speaking in foreign language)
13:28 (speaking in foreign language)
13:32 (speaking in foreign language)
13:36 They used unparalleled language against our women's food.
13:52 (speaking in foreign language)
13:56 (speaking in foreign language)
14:00 (speaking in foreign language)
14:04 They were telling us, "You are supporting,
14:28 "giving the shelter to the terrorists."
14:32 (speaking in foreign language)
14:36 And you will be surprised,
14:51 (speaking in foreign language)
14:55 (speaking in foreign language)
14:59 (speaking in foreign language)
15:02 (speaking in foreign language)
15:06 (speaking in foreign language)
15:11 (speaking in foreign language)
15:15 (speaking in foreign language)
15:19 And so is with the Muslims also.
15:43 (speaking in foreign language)
15:47 I cannot deny that.
15:52 But rapes were done by both of the--
15:55 - State and non-state.
15:56 - Non-states.
15:58 So why I will highlight only the non-state?
16:02 I have to highlight the state also.
16:04 Why they are highlighting the state only?
16:06 They have to highlight the non-state also.
16:09 - And these are the records which are there.
16:10 - Yes.
16:11 - And then you state back and now,
16:13 all things have changed.
16:14 (speaking in foreign language)
16:18 And they always keep saying that
16:24 this is for the return of Kashmiri Pandits.
16:27 (speaking in foreign language)
16:28 So where does that place you?
16:30 Like as a Kashmiri Pandit--
16:32 (speaking in foreign language)
16:38 - I feel more vulnerable and insecure.
16:43 (speaking in foreign language)
16:46 Because the way it was promoted
16:49 by our honorable Prime Minister,
16:51 (speaking in foreign language)
16:53 I think he should not have interfering that promotion.
16:58 (speaking in foreign language)
17:05 Did they sit on roads for seven days, eight days?
17:10 (speaking in foreign language)
17:14 - No, but like Kashmiri Pandits,
17:16 what do they want now in the community?
17:18 Do they want to return or do they not want to return?
17:21 - I don't think it is relevant to me question.
17:25 - Yeah.
17:26 - I think you should ask the question to those persons--
17:30 - Yeah.
17:31 - Who left the valley in 1990.
17:33 - Because a lot of Kashmiri Pandits
17:34 have also written a lot, like for example,
17:36 (speaking in foreign language)
17:42 So there's a lot of state of confusion.
17:44 (speaking in foreign language)
17:48 So how does one find--
17:51 (speaking in foreign language)
17:55 - Exactly.
17:57 (speaking in foreign language)
18:02 - So we were trying to revisit in '89, '90.
18:07 (speaking in foreign language)
18:11 Within the span of three or four months.
18:13 - Yeah, exactly, I don't understand why that--
18:16 (speaking in foreign language)
18:20 And why was it imperative for Kashmiri Pandits
18:23 (speaking in foreign language)
18:28 (speaking in foreign language)
18:32 (speaking in foreign language)
18:36 (speaking in foreign language)
19:03 He belongs to Bihar, he doesn't belong to Kashmir.
19:06 - Yeah.
19:07 (speaking in foreign language)
19:11 (speaking in foreign language)
19:25 They have not accepted Kashmir as their home.
19:29 (speaking in foreign language)
19:33 (speaking in foreign language)
19:37 But we are staying here, that's why--
19:44 (speaking in foreign language)
19:48 And so is vis-a-vis with the Muslims also.
19:53 (speaking in foreign language)
19:57 (speaking in foreign language)
20:01 (speaking in foreign language)
20:05 (speaking in foreign language)
20:10 (speaking in foreign language)
20:14 (speaking in foreign language)
20:18 (speaking in foreign language)
20:21 Because they have sold their houses.
20:39 - Yeah.
20:40 (speaking in foreign language)
20:45 (speaking in foreign language)
20:48 (speaking in foreign language)
20:57 (speaking in foreign language)
21:01 (speaking in foreign language)
21:06 (speaking in foreign language)
21:33 Actually, the exorcist, caped exorcist has been used
21:37 by the BJP, RSN, Congress maybe, yeah, they can.
21:42 (speaking in foreign language)
21:45 But BJP was always the vocal.
21:48 Maybe you have used as a tissue paper.
21:50 (speaking in foreign language)
21:54 And our leaders, (speaking in foreign language)
21:59 they become the emotional fools.
22:02 (speaking in foreign language)
22:05 We lack political vision.
22:07 - Yeah, that is true.
22:09 - We lack political vision.
22:12 (speaking in foreign language)
22:13 - I mean, also what do you want eventually?
22:15 - We lack political vision.
22:17 (speaking in foreign language)
22:22 There was no any special treatment when there was
22:26 crackdown for three days, four days, continuously.
22:28 (speaking in foreign language)
22:31 (speaking in foreign language)
22:35 So there was no special treatment for the KPs.
22:41 (speaking in foreign language)
22:43 Why they were calling us?
22:46 Because at that time, we were representing
22:49 the India in Kashmir.
22:50 (speaking in foreign language)
22:54 (speaking in foreign language)
22:58 (speaking in foreign language)
23:02 (speaking in foreign language)
23:06 Kashmir will always remain as a conflict zone.
23:18 (speaking in foreign language)
23:22 (speaking in foreign language)
23:29 (speaking in foreign language)
23:33 Big hearts.
23:43 It needs the religious preacher.
23:45 (speaking in foreign language)
23:49 (speaking in foreign language)
23:53 They have not mentioned the name of any organization,
24:05 any government organization.
24:07 (speaking in foreign language)
24:11 So they can start the reconciliation with us first.
24:13 And we can also start a reconciliation with them also.
24:18 (speaking in foreign language)
24:22 Unfortunately, 2019 happened.
24:41 (speaking in foreign language)
24:46 (speaking in foreign language)
24:48 You cannot talk about the reconciliation.
24:50 - Why?
24:52 (speaking in foreign language)
24:56 - That goes against the wishes of the bureaucrats,
25:00 not the government.
25:01 (speaking in foreign language)
25:05 - But isn't that what they're saying?
25:08 (speaking in foreign language)
25:14 And he's dictating terms with me.
25:16 How can I tolerate?
25:18 - But ultimately, isn't peace the aim?
25:20 (speaking in foreign language)
25:24 - He's not an Indian.
25:29 (speaking in foreign language)
25:33 He will not be a Pakistani or pro-Azadi group.
25:42 (speaking in foreign language)
25:44 (speaking in foreign language)
25:48 My SHO is calling at the time of
25:55 when there is a VVIP movement not to move out
25:58 from dawn to dusk.
26:00 (speaking in foreign language)
26:04 It is not only with me, it is with the 808 families.
26:10 Why they are not allowing my community members
26:13 to go to the orchards in villages
26:16 without the police protection.
26:19 (speaking in foreign language)
26:23 We have gone through the peak of the militancy,
26:26 (speaking in foreign language)
26:28 They can ask you to tell you some,
26:29 it is an invisible terrorism.
26:30 Nobody knows.
26:31 (speaking in foreign language)
26:33 I don't know.
26:34 (speaking in foreign language)
26:38 And he will get the pistol shot.
26:42 (speaking in foreign language)
26:45 I cannot even trust today about this man.
26:47 He cannot trust today about me.
26:48 (speaking in foreign language)
26:52 (coughing)
26:55 (speaking in foreign language)
26:59 (coughing)
27:01 (speaking in foreign language)
27:06 (speaking in foreign language)
27:10 (speaking in foreign language)
27:13 (speaking in foreign language)
27:17 (speaking in foreign language)
27:21 (speaking in foreign language)
27:25 (speaking in foreign language)
27:30 (speaking in foreign language)
27:34 (speaking in foreign language)
27:42 (speaking in foreign language)
27:50 (speaking in foreign language)
28:18 I'm trying to revisit '89, '90.
28:21 - What happened and why?
28:22 - Why it happened.
28:23 Why this LOC was open.
28:27 (speaking in foreign language)
28:31 (speaking in foreign language)
28:35 (speaking in foreign language)
28:39 (speaking in foreign language)
28:43 (speaking in foreign language)
28:47 (speaking in foreign language)
28:57 (speaking in foreign language)
29:01 So I categorize it 70-30.
29:25 70-30.
29:25 (speaking in foreign language)
29:29 That is common.
29:30 - That is common to you and the Kashmiri Muslims?
29:33 - Yes, that's from both the sides.
29:35 (speaking in foreign language)
29:40 (speaking in foreign language)
29:44 (speaking in foreign language)
29:48 (speaking in foreign language)
29:52 Even the so-called parliament member was also.
30:05 (speaking in foreign language)
30:10 (speaking in foreign language)
30:14 - I think even Kashmiri police,
30:22 the guns were taken away and all that.
30:23 - Yes.
30:24 - That also happened.
30:25 (speaking in foreign language)
30:29 (speaking in foreign language)
30:33 Maximum are being falsely implemented in cases.
30:44 (speaking in foreign language)
30:50 As an organization head.
30:52 (speaking in foreign language)
30:57 (speaking in foreign language)
31:01 (speaking in foreign language)
31:05 (speaking in foreign language)
31:09 (speaking in foreign language)
31:14 (speaking in foreign language)
31:17 (speaking in foreign language)
31:22 (speaking in foreign language)
31:27 (speaking in foreign language)
31:55 (speaking in foreign language)
31:59 - But as an official statement, nothing will come.
32:12 - Nothing will come.
32:14 (speaking in foreign language)
32:25 (speaking in foreign language)
32:30 (speaking in foreign language)
32:35 (speaking in foreign language)
32:39 (speaking in foreign language)
32:43 It just doesn't get released.
32:45 [BLANK_AUDIO]