The Rise Of Sustainable Brands

Forbes

This conversation from Davos dives into the importance of sustainability in business, how to make sustainability profitable, and how to authentically integrate sustainability into a brands culture.   0:00 Introduction 1:51 How Brands Should Commit To Making A Better Society 4:16 What Sustainable Advice Should Companies Consider? 7:06 Brand Differentiation In The Sustainable World 12:36 Sustainability Helps Drive Talent 19:03 What Is The Long Term Goal With Sustainability Practices In Business 26:04 How Is Technology Evolving To Solve Sustainability Issues  Subscribe to FORBES: https://www.youtube.com/user/Forbes?sub_confirmation=1  Fuel your success with Forbes. Gain unlimited access to premium journalism, including breaking news, groundbreaking in-depth reported stories, daily digests and more. Plus, members get a front-row seat at members-only events with leading thinkers and doers, access to premium video that can help you get ahead, an ad-light experience, early access to select products including NFT drops and more:  https://account.forbes.com/membership/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=growth_non-sub_paid_subscribe_ytdescript  Stay Connected Forbes newsletters: https://newsletters.editorial.forbes.com Forbes on Facebook: http://fb.com/forbes Forbes Video on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/forbes Forbes Video on Instagram: http://instagram.com/forbes More From Forbes:  http://forbes.com  Forbes covers the intersection of entrepreneurship, wealth, technology, business and lifestyle with a focus on people and success.

Transcript

00:00 How do you guys first define sustainability in the first place?

00:04 And then the the follow-on is then that how do you define a sustainable brand?

00:09 So first we need the core of what sustainability is and then what defines a sustainable brand?

00:14 I will start so I am I will anchor you in where what perspective I am bringing

00:20 So I actually joined manulife as their first global chief sustainability officer

00:25 And it was three years later that I took on the marketing portfolio for our wealth and asset management business

00:31 So as a sustainability first sort of marketing second person

00:35 When we think about sustainability, we're really talking about the impact that the organization has on the world

00:43 Both positive and negative

00:45 environmental social all aspects of the the impact that an organization has I

00:52 Love that line Sarah sustainability first marketing second, right?

00:56 We have a lot of marketers here who may disagree

00:58 But um, I think around up to your question

01:01 There are two fundamental definition of sustainability with the broader one

01:03 Which Sarah was saying in which you talk about the sustainability of brands being you know

01:08 How durable they are and by being durable how they can stay relevant over time by being?

01:12 You know relevant to the clients relevant to the community and doing those things and the other the more narrow definition

01:18 Which is also equally important is talking about it from the point of view of climate action and climate change and what's the role plans?

01:24 Have to play in that front

01:26 Yesterday the big theme for Davos this year is rebuilding trust

01:30 Yesterday was the launch of the trust barometer, which Edelman does every year. It shows consistently that amongst the institutions

01:38 The highest trust which people have in institutions remains with business

01:43 Okay much higher than in with NGOs than with governments and media is right at the end of the line. Sorry Randall, okay

01:49 We're also a business. We'll take it

01:51 So so brands have a responsibility to leverage that trust

01:54 To do good for society and one of the areas where they are making impact and you need to make even more of an impact

01:59 Is is the climate front?

02:01 David maybe also maybe talk a little bit about what brand finance does is this this working it is on

02:09 I am a chartered accountant. That's my first role

02:12 but I worked in marketing for many years and I now run brand finance, which is the

02:18 world's leading brand valuation firm and we have the biggest database of both brand values and

02:24 brand equity tracking

02:27 For a whole variety of different brands and that would include corporate and nation brands and in answer to the question about sustainability

02:36 It seems to me that what sustainability is about is

02:39 marshalling

02:41 resources in such a way that the earth is a sustainable thing and that cascades down to an individual country and

02:50 Business level that it is running its

02:52 resources in a sustainable way

02:55 Which frankly means running it in an economically efficient way, which I am not sure is always top priority

03:02 Right, and so so you're you're crunching the numbers. So is

03:06 sustainability

03:09 Profitability

03:12 The answer simple answer is yes, and if it is not profitable it won't have a future

03:17 I could just give you one

03:20 You can if you could put real numbers to because we hear that a lot, but you're actually crunching the numbers

03:25 So yeah, well, I was weirdly I was just talking to a guy who used to run sustainability for Mars the other day

03:31 He was a global sustainability director and he said it makes him very angry when he hears people talking about

03:37 The fact that you shouldn't bother to invest in sustainability

03:41 Because your shareholders won't wear it and they can't stand it

03:45 And that is a common frame in the UK stock market

03:50 There are a variety of quite annoying

03:52 Investors who say that people like Unilever should not do a lot of this sustainability stuff because it's wasting shareholders money

03:59 Now what he said was a lot of the sustainability initiatives and certainly all the ones he did either

04:05 reduced costs or increased demand or

04:08 Reliability or something but there was an economic benefit from doing it and he said without that Mars would probably not have been doing them

04:16 You advise hundreds of companies. So you see this first hand, right? I mean to your question

04:21 I think in short sustainability may not be that profitable in the short term, but it's definitely profitable in the long term

04:29 Right, it's not easy for businesses, you know and depends which industry which sector which part of the world you're in for many industries

04:35 It's not easy to abate carbon, right if you're in steel if you're in transport, it's much harder

04:41 The thing is

04:45 There's a role here also for consumers and a lot of talk is given on the fact that

04:49 Consumers are going to force businesses to be sustainable, but there's a caveat to that

04:54 Yes consumers want businesses to be sustainable

04:56 But do consumers want to pay for it a lot of the research says that an average consumer is willing to pay 10 to 12 percent

05:03 Extra for a product which is sustainable and not more than that, right? There was this fantastic

05:08 That's a sweet spot. Yeah, I'll share this example. I was speaking with the CEO in the airline industry and

05:14 They had put out this little

05:17 sort of

05:18 Add-on for sustainability in which if you bought your your airplane ticket for $800

05:24 You could say I'm let me make my journey carbon neutral by adding

05:27 $15 more, you know, what was the uptake of that program?

05:31 Less than 1% of people took it right on the other hand if two airlines are operating and one is more sustainable in the other

05:40 Customers are more likely to choose it but there is a price point both for consumers and for businesses in embracing this in the long term

05:47 It has to be profitable because if you're not sustainable in the long term, you will not exist

05:52 So manulife obviously is a global life and health insurance company

05:56 It is our business

05:58 For people to be healthier the healthier and the more that we can invest in people being healthier the better it is for our business

06:04 Less premiums. It's cheaper for us

06:07 So there is a fundamental shared value or business alignment to the betterment of health for societies

06:14 And our business I'll give you one other example

06:17 As we think about sort of core environmental sustainability on our investment side

06:22 So the assets that we manage as a result of the insurance liabilities about four hundred and four hundred and fifty billion dollars

06:29 We've been investing in renewable energy for a long time

06:33 Not because we had a target to do so not because you know

06:37 Some regulation was telling us but because it was just a great investment and you know

06:43 We're we on the investment management side are creating those products those sustainability products for people

06:50 It's great investment. You're gonna get your financial returns and you're gonna be able to have

06:55 You know either the carbon credits or others through asset classes like timberland and agriculture

07:02 That are again are gonna maximize returns for you. I think

07:06 When we talk about sustainability and brand and differentiation

07:11 I think businesses embrace sustainability for different reasons, you know, some might do it for for for

07:18 Differentiation some might do due to regulatory pressure some do it due to pressure from their communities that is their employees their customers

07:25 We fundamentally believe that at least on our side we embrace sustainability because we feel it's just the right thing to do

07:31 Whether I differentiates a brand or not is you know, it's it's a side bonus

07:35 As a company we've taken you know multiple steps towards this

07:40 We've taken a net zero pledge. We intend to be net zero by 2030. The good news is we are two years ahead of schedule

07:46 We are working with a lot of our customers using the power of technology to see how they can become more efficient

07:52 And all of that but also from as a kind of as a CMO

07:56 I'm also kind of looking at our whole marketing footprint and seeing what can we do think?

08:00 How can we do things more sustainably? So just one quick example on that is we're a big sponsor of marathon properties worldwide

08:06 So we work with the Council of responsible sports in the US to build this app, which we made available free to all sports organization

08:13 to help them

08:14 Monitor and do better on the carbon footprint and we've encouraging all our partners in the marathon associations to embrace this

08:20 Two of them have done really well last year

08:22 So the London T says London marathon and the T says Toronto where you're from

08:26 Waterfront marathon have got a gold and evergreen status on it

08:30 And I think that's the role which you need to play as a CMO is in your smaller remit and your footprint

08:35 What can you do and what's the change you can make it makes sense how?

08:39 as

08:41 brand managers

08:43 How do you get your enterprise behind this because in some ways, you know

08:48 You guys are leading this in many ways in terms of getting the whole enterprise to move

08:52 It's the latest wave of technology. And I think if you look at technology as a whole

08:57 It's had dramatic effects on improving the way companies work the speed the efficiency the number of people

09:05 And I'm pretty sure from what I've heard that AI will do the same thing now

09:09 Obviously if you do that you make companies more efficient and you're likely to be helping with things like the environment the environmental impact of businesses

09:18 There's a lot of scare stories about AI, but they're probably exaggerated. It's but it's less about AI

09:24 I guess I'm asking then this making sustainability part of your mission

09:29 Throughout the enterprise and again that to me that's a uniquely CMO role

09:34 Yeah, I mean, I think it ultimately, you know for many years

09:37 We've been talking about this this concept of purpose and how do you embed purpose in your brand?

09:42 How do you embed purpose? I mean fundamentally

09:45 Again, depending on the industry with which you work in that is either a more natural connection to your products and services

09:52 Or it's it's more tangential and it's it's more, you know

09:56 Fundamentally what you believe in versus connected to your products and services. I think there's going to be two themes moving forward

10:03 As we all navigate what is you know set to be a pretty fragile world for the next few months

10:10 Authenticity is going to be a critical part of

10:14 Of this element, right? How do you make sure that what you're saying from a sustainability perspective?

10:20 Integrated with the brand is authentic and secondly transparency

10:24 You know consumers employees want the transparency. They really want to understand what's behind

10:33 Some of what's being said at the brand level from a system. I think the answer frankly is no different to anything

10:40 You know if you're talking about how do you take the organization along with you on the sustainability vision and journey?

10:44 It's no different from how do you take the organization along with you on your values or on a business strategy or anything else?

10:50 It's it's the same formula. It's

10:52 Living and walking what you're talking about as a leadership team. It's not just the CMO. It's the whole C suite. It's communicating constantly

10:59 It's taking concrete actions. The one advantage I think on the sustainability front is that unlike other things where you might be

11:05 Educating and encouraging your organization to do things differently here

11:10 You'd find a lot of your employees already very educated about the challenge here. Many are very passionate about it and

11:15 You know even in talking with our HR team sometimes, you know, they say in the interviews which we have of people

11:22 We're getting cutting to join our company. One of the first one or two questions is you know

11:26 What are you doing on sustainability and and and that wasn't the case a few years ago, right?

11:31 So that that let's push that a little bit because you know

11:35 Similarly to we talked about the narrowing gap in terms of quality talent becomes that much more valuable

11:41 How do you use that that sustainability message as a sword instead of a shield to get better talent?

11:48 There's there's you know, there's got to be a secret there

11:51 Yeah for us, it's it's people want to you know, know that the organization is doing a good thing, right?

11:57 It's like everyone wants a gym in the office

12:00 No one wants to go to the gym, but they want the gym in the office

12:03 They want to be able to say there's a gym

12:05 There's another group of people that deeply want to get engaged and you've got to figure out a way to meaningfully engage them

12:13 You know, we're seeing certainly a decentralization of sustainability

12:17 Sustainability is not the responsibility anymore of a sustainability function. It's being embedded in

12:23 marketing and risk and finance and so

12:27 Giving people those opportunities to embed elements of environmental or social

12:32 Impact through their job is the most meaningful way to do that. David are there any not, you know, what as you you know

12:39 compile all the data on this

12:41 are there numbers in terms of

12:47 Employee satisfaction and things like that that would again help drive talent. So

12:51 When we came here five years ago with TCS

12:55 we actually launched one study which was to

12:59 evaluate the performance of CEOs as

13:02 brand guardians and reputation guardians and in that sample, which is done with

13:08 equity analysts and informed publics

13:12 There are a variety of things that people care about particularly the CEO having vision

13:17 one of the things which has grown year by year by year is their reliance and you know backing for

13:24 sustainability in all three of its key areas and we just announced the results today actually of our latest study and

13:32 It demonstrates very clearly that the most successful CEOs are the ones that do adopt

13:38 Sustainability practices and one of the key audiences for that is the internal one

13:43 Obviously external as well, but internal and just coming back to the point you made earlier on you were saying

13:48 CMOs are probably the best cheerleaders for sustainability. I

13:52 Want to be the contrarian on that one?

13:54 Brand finance was set up with the strapline. We bridge the gap between marketing and finance

14:00 I think almost it's been a bit of a problem that the main cheerleader for

14:06 Sustainability has been marketing and comms and the rest are not listening

14:09 And so therefore you have got to persuade the finance directors is important and in particular the CEOs

14:15 Because nothing really happens until those two people

14:18 Decide and at one of the nice things or one of the good things is that over the last few years

14:24 I think it really the message really is getting across to the CEOs and the CFOs that it matters

14:29 Finally, so I think it will now happen

14:32 Well, we're also going to see

14:35 More, you know, we're seeing more ESG regulation

14:37 Which of course that makes people, you know pay attention. What are the implications?

14:43 For brand managers as we see more regulation more regulators focusing on on ESG

14:49 Yeah, one of the things that I'm

14:53 That I'm watching and I'm conscious of is as it becomes more of a regulatory requirement

14:59 That we lose the emotional

15:02 You know brand play that that sustainability will go live in finance and risk and I actually you know

15:10 The pendulum, you know as it does swings and it was probably too far on the marketing

15:15 You know side and that's where you got particularly in the financial services industry

15:19 issues of greenwashing

15:21 And I think we're gonna see it swing and we just got to keep it somewhere in the middle where we're still we are

15:27 You know embedding it in our brand story and we are able to tell

15:31 You know the story of what sustainability is without, you know, sterilizing it into the regulatory environment

15:38 Yeah, I mean Randall the regulatory pressure is there and it's it's gonna only ratchet up and I think if you break it down

15:44 There are two aspects where the regulatory pressure really starts to hit companies

15:49 First is in raising standards and the second largely is in reporting right on the standard side

15:56 I think the smart strategy for any business should be that

16:00 If you're smart you're ahead of the standards you already implemented the change before you're required to do

16:04 So the reporting side is a different thing and it can become very cumbersome

16:09 Large companies have the resources, you know, they can create an entire new compliance department and work on it

16:14 I think for smaller companies it becomes a huge burden like I mean, for example in the European Union

16:19 There is the C BAM regulation which is coming on the carbon border adjustment mechanism

16:24 Which is going to require to report on all the sourcing in your supply chain and where it's from and basis on which your tax

16:30 Is going to be decided it's gonna put a huge burden on smaller businesses

16:34 But you know

16:36 There's no choice if you got operate in in in a market and you choose to then you need to abide by the regulations

16:41 Which are which are there? I think I totally with Sarah on that

16:44 I think one of the challenges for businesses is when there's pressure on a business

16:48 There's pressure to try and show you're doing something

16:51 I think as always the good right thing to do is to actually do it

16:56 Even if you're slower in doing it be transparent about it saying we're bringing the change it takes us a longer time

17:00 We're getting there

17:01 But if you feel the pressure and try to spin a story, which is not true

17:04 You're gonna get into trouble pretty quickly and then it's your right corporate comms department, which is on crisis more throughout

17:09 I read a very very interesting article this morning

17:15 That was stimulated by some analysis done by a company called CB analytics

17:21 they review companies before they do IPOs and

17:24 shine the

17:27 Chinese fashion company

17:29 Apparently is worth 65 billion and wants to do an IPO in the States

17:33 Probably be the second or third biggest IPO of the year

17:37 but their practices are not deemed to be as sustainable as they should be and so

17:44 There's another company called know your channel and they rank companies in that sector in the in the fast

17:51 Fashion sector by how good they are in sustainability Lulu lemon comes up first

17:56 Boohoo came quite low and when that happened boohoo its shares were sold down and it's mainly because the analysts believe

18:04 That if you are not following these sustainability practices, particularly in terms of sourcing you will lose market share

18:11 So therefore the financial guys are following the market and that's why it is a major problem for brand managers

18:17 You've got to get it sorted out or you screw up your market share and you screw up your financials

18:22 but but it's counterintuitive in some ways because

18:25 To gain market share that probably means that sometimes you have to walk away from opportunities if they don't fit

18:33 Sustainability, but you know, it's very hard to get people in other areas of the company

18:37 So no, we're gonna leave that business or we're gonna leave that client or we're gonna leave that initiative. How do you do that?

18:43 How do you coach people in your organization that the long term

18:50 Means transparency, you know, but have you mentioned doing the right thing?

18:55 But sometimes that means you're gonna have to take a short-term hit. How do you get people to do that?

18:59 I'm gonna go ahead. I got an answer. Yeah. All right. I think that's the well

19:05 I don't know if there's an answer to it. I think that's the biggest challenge for CEOs today is how do you balance the short-term?

19:10 pressure with the long-term interests of the company and

19:14 You know different CEOs do it differently some bow entirely to short-term pressure

19:19 move up the stock price to all of that and

19:22 then leave the company in a state where in the longer term somebody has to come in and fix it and the others who

19:27 Think of the hundred-year vision and focus on it

19:30 But don't take enough short-term actions to give them the space to drive their long-term vision

19:35 I think as always in anything in life the balance of being able to do some things in a smart way

19:41 But also keeping the long term the picture in mind is are the people who end up winning in this game

19:46 The simple answer in my opinion is regulation and

19:51 the international financial reporting standards and

19:56 The EU and a number of other places including the US are now becoming very active in

20:03 legislating for basic standards on all the aspects of sustainability and

20:07 Frankly, this is one of the big issues yesterday. I had a discussion with Martin Sorrell. He is very much in favor of self-regulation

20:13 In all these areas, he just doesn't believe in regulation

20:17 But it seems to be the only way as far as I'm concerned to actually make people get up to the basic minimum

20:23 Well, let's push that a little bit because

20:26 We talked about regulation we talked about government

20:32 ESG in some ways, especially in the US

20:34 I'll give it a kind of a US Canada point of view here is that there's been some

20:39 Politicization of ESG specifically the term especially how do you navigate that?

20:45 Yeah, so it's it's very clear for us again as an investment shop

20:50 When ESG factors are

20:54 Financially material they are taken into consideration

20:59 Period and stop just like you would take any other

21:02 You know financial or non-financial metric

21:05 Once you get to that level of understanding the politicization sort of goes away unless it's an impact first

21:12 You know product or experience. So again, how do you define, you know when we're looking at an investment in real estate in Florida?

21:21 You're absolutely gonna take into consideration flooding

21:26 You know and and the natural sort of effects of climate change

21:29 That's not because you know, there's there's a you know, a climate action plan. That's because that's just good business

21:36 So it's how do you figure out what is financially material from all of these aspects and implementing it, you know, we're relevant

21:43 Most things that have major economic consequences are political. There is no way of getting away from it

21:50 The question is, you know, what is the right thing to do in a political situation?

21:54 And I think elections will be influenced by the attitude that they take

21:58 I mean, for example that one example I gave a moment ago about sourcing clothes, you know places like Sri Lanka Bangladesh China

22:05 You know the working practices and the costs and the amounts that are paid to staff or for example

22:10 With a lot of commodities in Africa where coffee and things like that are not paid for properly

22:15 if you don't have either, you know semi regulation like the

22:22 Sustainability Accounting Standards Board or actual legislation like the EU is bringing in you will not make progress

22:28 Yeah, but if I might offer slightly counter view, I think if you if you count on

22:33 Regulation to be your best friend in affecting change

22:36 I feel in many ways you've almost failed as a business right because it's an external factor

22:42 Which is forcing you to do a change which you should have foreseen right? I'll give an example in our sector in technology

22:48 Today the whole technology sector accounts for about 3% of carbon emissions worldwide

22:53 It's about in range similar to the aviation sector

22:56 Although the aviation sector gets a lot more grief than technology sector does but if you look at the trend in the future

23:02 this is going to be a huge challenge for the tech industry because the sheer amount of data which we are

23:07 Creating and storing and which we are transacting which is growing just in every year. We create more data in that year

23:17 Right

23:18 And AI web 3 crypto all heavy heavy heavy data IOT

23:24 So at least some of the surveys point to the fact that the technology sector is going to count

23:30 Take up its 3% emission rate to something as high as 14% in the coming 14 or 15 years

23:36 We got to see this coming and change invest in green data centers

23:40 Do whatever is required before there is somebody sitting in the European Commission or somebody sitting in Washington who says hey

23:46 You're the next target on the block. It is ironic, right?

23:49 well, I think one of the things I do agree with you great brands should be leaders and

23:56 Take someone like Patagonia. They've been leaders in sustainability

23:59 Take someone frankly like Tata Tata was set up as a company that was inherently sustainable and has been for over a hundred years

24:07 I mean it is definitely a leader and I think you can differentiate yourself

24:12 but one of the difficulties is if everybody else doesn't follow what do you do and

24:16 It can it could create a huge disadvantage now in the case of the Tata group. They don't care

24:22 They have always done sustainable things and right things

24:25 Not everyone knows all about them, but they are extremely good in their practices

24:30 That's a hundred years ago. Not everyone's caught up with you yet

24:34 So this is why I believe intervention is much more significant for the vast majority

24:39 To get over human nature and let me give you an example

24:42 You know when you go into these cheap shops and buy stuff that probably produced in the wrong way if you ask consumers

24:49 So what do you think then do you object to the fact that they're you know produced under the wrong circumstances?

24:54 They'll go. Well, not really because it's only three dollars or it's five dollars and I couldn't afford it if it was ten

25:01 So they kind of like suspend their disbelief

25:04 So you have to have intervention as well as leaders

25:08 Okay, fair point good debate

25:10 What what

25:14 Looking at the next five years as we go on this path. What do you think is the biggest hurdle?

25:20 What's the hardest the hardest challenge we have in this intermediate step?

25:26 So I think we've come

25:30 from on the sustainability front we have moved from a discussion of

25:36 Should we set targets?

25:38 Then that evolved into how do we set targets?

25:42 Everyone set targets everyone knows what we need to do. The challenge is execution. It is actually

25:48 Making progress in areas where we know what we need to do. We generally know how we're gonna do it

25:55 It's you know, and again, it's the technology and that's going to scale the opportunity, but it's all about execution now

26:04 Yeah, you know what? I think on the plus side the tech technology is evolving rapidly whether you know

26:11 The energy transition and other things

26:13 Businesses are doing their work. I think 80% of large businesses have taken their net zero pledges, etc

26:18 If you ask me the biggest challenge single biggest challenge to the energy transition to climate action is misinformation

26:24 All right, if you look around the world led by political discourse led by weaponization of social platforms

26:32 There's polarization of views forming on

26:34 climate change

26:37 nowhere more so than you know where you're from and I think

26:41 That leads to when this polarization that leads to political consequences

26:46 Which leads to policy consequences and so forth and I think if you ask me

26:50 That's the single biggest risk if we are not together at least in acknowledging that there's a challenge which we all need to work on together

26:56 There's always going to be

27:00 Well, I mean obviously I mentioned about economics and making it economically viable

27:04 It's one of the main challenges both for individuals and companies

27:08 But I actually think the most important most difficult challenge is a brand one and it's actually

27:15 Making the general public in the world

27:18 Understand what sustainability is, you know when you say to people about sustainability

27:23 They really don't know what you were talking about. And when you ask the question, would you like to define sustainability?

27:28 I thought for a moment. It's one of those words that people just go. Oh, yes sustainability

27:33 but in fact

27:33 it's very complex and you know, I really have to say I don't think the SDG goal from the UN is that is a

27:40 Masterclass in branding it is deeply confusing

27:44 Deeply confusing if they want to get the message across they have got to get brilliant marketers like Abba now

27:51 To to actually do something to communicate it. So it's meaningful to people. I just don't think it is

27:58 You you know you work for a company that advises

28:00 hundreds of best companies in the world

28:03 What for all three of you is the one piece of advice?

28:08 That you would give to somebody who's looking to you as leaders in this

28:13 On this journey the one best piece of advice

28:17 Just David will go and we'll come right to me persuade the CEO

28:22 That he is not gonna lose his job

28:25 Because investors don't like it or maybe tell him he might lose his job if he doesn't

28:31 The carrot and the stick. All right, but I'll be you know, you get you do this all the time

28:37 I'm gonna go to the opposite to him, which is instead of the CEO listen to young people, you know

28:41 When I want to get the truth, I ask my children then they say it straight up this like, you know

28:45 They said dad

28:45 You're the one causing the climate crisis because you have you didn't change from a fossil fuel car to a electric car

28:51 Which we did because they pushed it

28:53 And I have the teenagers and that is correct, but it's not just

28:58 Morally, it's that if you look at the demographic bubble, those are your future consumers

29:03 So it's yes, they're coming up from a different point of view, but that's gonna be the mainstream point of view

29:08 Five years ten years it's coming. So that's great advice. So you get last word last word on a great panel

29:15 Thank you everybody for a great time. I would say don't let perfect be the enemy of good

29:19 You know in a world where you know, we the regulatory environment and the data challenges

29:25 We got to make progress and just go for it

29:28 That's great advice from three great thinkers

29:31 Thank you for your time. Thank you for a very interesting panel

29:35 And thank you for you know being part of a really cool day here here in Davos. So appreciate you appreciate everything

29:42 Randall for the conversation

29:44 You

29:46 [BLANK_AUDIO]

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