This week on the Magpies' Nest Newcastle United Podcast, Daniel and Jordan chat about Newcastle missing out on Europe thanks to Manchester United's FA Cup victory, before debating the aims fo next season.
Plus! The pair analyse who else should be moved on from the club following the release of Paul Dummett, Matt Ritchie, Loris Karius, Jeff Hendricks and Kell Watts.
Plus! The pair analyse who else should be moved on from the club following the release of Paul Dummett, Matt Ritchie, Loris Karius, Jeff Hendricks and Kell Watts.
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00:00 [Train sounds]
00:11 Hello and welcome back to the Magpies Nest Newcastle United podcast. Once again I'm joined by my co-host, journalist friend Jordan Crone.
00:20 Jordan, how are you on this cloudy Wednesday afternoon? I'm trying to think of interesting things here, there's not a lot going on we can talk about so you know.
00:31 Yeah, the sun's gone after I've made a brief return for a little bit. It's been all doom and gloom in terms of the weather and possibly Newcastle United's season after what happened at the weekend, which I'm sure we're going to come on to.
00:48 Yes, yes we are. Of course last week on the podcast it was all, we seemed relatively merry, I mean we were trying not to get too far ahead of ourselves because it wasn't confirmed that Newcastle would be in Europe.
01:00 And then of course the one team you think you can count on in Manchester City, even they let you down. So Newcastle will not be playing in Europe next season because Manchester United won the FA Cup, they'll be in the Europa League, Chelsea therefore in the conference.
01:14 So Jordan, it's a disappointment I think it's fair to say. How do Newcastle process this? Of course I think the whole aim this season, well maybe not the whole season, well actually yes the whole season but certainly from sort of March onwards was to get in Europe of any form and they haven't done that.
01:34 There's a lot of sort of fear on social media that this might affect players staying or players coming in but given it was only the Conference League is that the case and just as a whole how much will it affect the club not being in Europe for a season in your opinion?
01:52 Yeah I don't think it's sugar-coated, I think Conference League or not, I do think it's a massive blow to Newcastle United's ambitions if you like because to go from a top four finish to getting Champions League football to then 12 months later being in no Europe, whatever way you look at it, it is a blow.
02:11 That word failure has been bandied about and I think that's a really, really strong word but I think that's probably the harsh reality of what's happened. I do think it's a failure that Newcastle have helped me not qualify for Europe. Now they're probably unlucky in a sense because if you ask at the start of the season what seven players are going to get you then you think it's going to guarantee Europe.
02:31 At one stage it even looked like eight teams were going to be in Europe next season because of obviously the coefficient rules with UEFA. So in that sense you think Newcastle's seven players finish will guarantee Europe and I think it's only happened once in the last ten years where a team who's finished seventh hasn't actually got any Europe and I think that was because Arsenal won the FA Cup.
02:51 So in that sense we're unlucky but the reality is that's not European football and I do think again it's a failure. What knock-on effect does it have? Well it certainly changes the feeling around the club and somehow I think Newcastle looking forward to Conference League football there will be a bit of a buzz where it does feel like that result at the weekend has kicked them a little bit.
03:18 But I don't think it will have an effect on players' futures to be honest. I think players like Bruno and Isako, of course the two big names that we talk about, they deserve to be playing European football and I think naturally in their careers they'll be disappointed not to be playing European football next season.
03:36 But I think Newcastle or Bruno for the next four weeks because of the release clause hold the key to their futures. So if no-one activates Bruno's release clause in the next four weeks Newcastle are in total control of whatever price tag we want to demand. It's up to them if they want him to stay which I'm pretty sure they do.
03:54 And of course you've got Isako as well, they're in control of his future and them two players I mentioned there, they've got price tags that are really perhaps unaffordable for a lot of teams. So as much as those players might be disappointed and probably will be disappointed that they haven't got European football next season, Newcastle hold the key and I just don't see those players leaving.
04:16 So yeah, it's a blow because everyone would have looked forward to European football. I think it's a sign of a successful progressive football club if you get into European football every season. We haven't done that but we can't sit here and dwell on it. Eddie Howe can't sit here and dwell on it, the players can't either.
04:34 The ownership can't, they've got to push ahead with plans this summer, it's a big summer ahead and they've got to focus on getting back in Europe next season. I do think it probably puts the pressure on a little bit next year because Eddie Howe, probably the victim of his own success last time he had a full season without European football, they went and finished fourth.
04:53 I wouldn't criticise people for thinking that's a realistic game again next season. I think either top four or a trophy has to be the aim and if they do that next season you can maybe look back on the season as a blessing in disguise because it is a bump in the road but there's so many lessons to be learned, injuries etc. There's loads of lessons that we can sit here and rattle off lessons all day. As long as they learn from those lessons they could come back much stronger next season.
05:21 What is the aim for next season?
05:32 I think that's the main point to talk about, what now is the aim for next season. I've had some discussions on social media about this and you do think given the fact that there will be no midweek matches they can concentrate fully on the domestic side of things, both league and the two cups.
05:48 You would like to think if they get the summer right they should be aiming for a pretty good season next season, whether that be a top four or a domestic cup of some description. As you say with the players potentially leaving, I don't think the Europa Conference League will dictate whether Bruno or Isak Steyer will go to us. I think there's other factors involved in that which will dictate their futures.
06:13 But I think just for the club's progression and of course wanting to play Europe consecutively in every season, that's where there's a real blow in terms of not qualifying this year. But I don't think it's going to affect whether Bruno or Isak really stay to be honest.
06:27 As I say, they're under contract at Newcastle. Bruno has a £100m release clause active until the end of June and then after that his price will probably go up, let's be honest. Staying with Isak, as far as we know he does not have a release clause but his price given his age and his scoring ability is probably going to be even higher than Bruno's.
06:50 So, let's be honest, I don't think many clubs can afford either of them. So, I don't think missing out on Europe will affect their futures too much. But it will affect maybe some of the morale around the club, at least for the summer period.
07:09 But if they get the summer right in Newcastle, I think they can then go on and have a good season. But just on that, I think we'll look at that Jordan. You've touched on it there, what does next season have to be now? What does it have to look like? Is it the case when Newcastle have to qualify for the Champions League again or at least top five and win something? Whether it be an FA Cup or a League Cup, where do you stand on that?
07:31 Well, they certainly can't have a season like they have had this season because the club's ambitions are public. I think the owner himself has came out, well, yes, RMI and the non-executive chairman, has come out and said that once Newcastle are number one, to not have European football for two seasons in a row would be unthinkable really.
07:53 So that's the bare minimum next season. They've got to get back at least top six in my opinion. And they've got a challenge for a trophy, I think. If Newcastle challenge for a trophy this season, look, it's easier said than done. But if they can get themselves in a final and finish around fifth or sixth in the Premier League, I think many fans would probably accept that maybe.
08:19 Maybe you'd have to go and win a trophy and then finish fifth or sixth for that to be accepted. Because if you say Newcastle's last two seasons, fourth and seventh, that in Newcastle United's recent history is the best finishes they've had.
08:35 But the feeling around the club and who the owners are, the ambitions, expectations have naturally rose. And unfortunately, a seventh place finish in many ways is acceptable. But you're left wanting more and you're left wanting to think that you can get more as well because of who's in charge.
08:55 So, yeah, they've got to go and challenge for that top four again next season, at least finish in Europe. And I do think a trophy is key because we're three years into this, well, three full seasons now into the new owners, under the new owners.
09:13 I think if you had asked me on the night of the takeover, where do I think Newcastle would be in three and a half years' time, I would say challenging for a trophy. I don't expect that to change. I think in many ways it's harsh, but I think the pressure probably is on a little bit next season for them to go and do something that's exceptional.
09:35 And that could be qualifying for the Champions League again, or it could be winning a trophy. But to be honest, I would take either, but probably a trophy.
09:47 The wait has to end at some point, doesn't it? I know they haven't got Europe this season, but they have qualified for Europe for the first time in 20 years last year. So they've checked that box, they've got back into Europe in some description.
10:01 But then you've got that elephant in the room, haven't you? It's 1969, it's the last time they won anything major, of course, the Intercity's first cup. And it's got, as I say, that wait has to end eventually.
10:17 And for all the times you can qualify for Europe and all the success that can bring, you know, I made the point on social media the other day, Tottenham Hotspur have qualified for Europe an awful lot over the last few years, the Champions League, the Europa League, etc.
10:28 But they're always sort of, I know, I hate to use the term 'the big six' and all, but they're all, they're sort of seen as that bit of a laughing stock in that only because they haven't won anything since 2008 in the League Cup.
10:40 So I think you can qualify for Europe as much as you like, but I think eventually they have to win something and establish themselves as a winning club.
10:48 Because the qualifying for Europe doesn't necessarily mean you've won something, it just means you've done something in the League, but you've not lifted that piece.
10:55 There's a tangible difference in my opinion. So I think, obviously, I don't think the Premier League will be quite within their reach next season, although you never know.
11:05 Yeah, as I say, no Europe to contend with, and if they get the summer right and if players are not as injured as they were in the season just gone, and Tonali comes back, etc.
11:16 You never know, but you'd think at the moment the likes of Arsenal and Man City would still be a couple of steps ahead.
11:22 But I think they can really go and attack the League Cup and the FA Cup. Now, of course, they got to both quarterfinals last season.
11:28 And let's be honest, they were within a key entry mistake of probably getting to a, and this is not to discredit Middlesbrough, but they probably would have beaten Middlesbrough over two legs in a semi-final.
11:40 So, and that's another final they would have got to. And of course, in the FA Cup, you know, they were doing all right.
11:49 They got past Blackburn just about on penalties and then look at the draw hazard, of course, you end up against Manchester City away.
11:55 And then you think, oh gosh, and then it's your sort of, your hopes are dashed a little bit, to be honest.
12:02 But regardless, so they weren't far away in this season and that's this season with all its issues and problems.
12:08 So you think if things are better next season, they should have a right good go at both of those and not just get to the quarterfinals, but get to semi-finals, get to finals.
12:17 And let's be honest, I mean, I was listening to another podcast the other day with a friend of both ours, Matthew Rathbeck, and he says he thinks they probably have to win something next season.
12:31 And so, is there pressure on any? How do you think?
12:37 Yeah, I mean, there's so many negative connotations with the word pressure. But ultimately, I think that's the way it is because of what he's achieved so far.
12:50 What did Newcastle have to do now to make the next step to finish fourth and Addy House first for the season in charge?
12:56 They then finished seventh where they played Champions League football.
13:00 So what is the next step? And the next step is to win a trophy. And I think that they've got a challenge for that next year.
13:08 I thought you made a really good point there about the winning a trophy. It's almost that hoodoo where once they win one trophy, you'd hope that more would follow.
13:19 And it's been a very, very long time. They need to do that sooner rather than later.
13:26 And you're right as well, even throughout the ups and downs of the season, the struggles, the injuries, they weren't far away.
13:35 You mentioned the League Cup, the FA Cup, quarterfinals. Even in the Champions League, they were half an hour away from a last-16 tie in the Champions League.
13:43 So there is positives there because I don't want to be that guy who says, "Oh, well, actually, maybe not having European football is a blessing in disguise."
13:52 I don't believe that at all because it can be. But to be a progressive football club, you need to be qualified for Europe.
14:00 But maybe if you just take a step back and you don't have those extra games, then you conserve energy.
14:11 Everything on the first season, that Eddie Howe's team was that high intensity, high press.
14:16 You'd expect that to return next season. And if they can hit the best levels, then they should realistically be challenging for the top four again.
14:23 And as you say, they haven't been far away in the Cup competition. So I think Eddie Howe was set such a high bar.
14:30 Certainly when you look back at that Champions League season anyway, when they qualified for the top four, well, look what Eddie Howe can do with a full squad.
14:38 Look at all the way they play, etc. That'll probably return next season where those expectations will probably rise again.
14:45 Where you say, "Well, Eddie Howe's done that with a full squad with less games, so can he do it again?"
14:50 And I think that's the challenge for him. And if they get that right, then there's no reason why they shouldn't be challenging for a trophy and even top four again next year.
14:59 Well, that's the thing. The only caveat to that is because they're missing Europe for a year, they then don't have that getting used to playing midweek again,
15:06 which they didn't cope too well with this year. Their performances obviously didn't drop massively, but the injuries, they were the big impact.
15:17 And of course, they don't have that this year. So as much as they might go and have a really good season, they then get back into Europe next year.
15:22 Other than missing that bit of preparation, a bit of being used to having those midweek games.
15:29 But then the caveat to that is that they might have a bigger and more deep squad by then, which will be more ready to cope with the extra games on top.
15:41 But yeah, I think you can look at it all different types of ways. There's lots of different angles about the whole European and not having it and then what that might mean for next season.
15:49 But I think we are sort of in some sort of an agreement that next season has to be better, but that this season they weren't far away and that if they get this summer right,
15:58 next season can and will be better. Because as I say, this season is for all the issues, you know, two cup quarterfinals, not far away in Europe.
16:11 And let's be honest, they blew their own European hopes in the league because it was in their hands a few weeks ago.
16:17 So with all that being said, they should be on course for a good season this season.
16:24 Final question before we move on to the next topic, Jordan, is if next season doesn't go that way, what happens to Eddie Howe?
16:33 It's a tough question, that one.
16:37 Is he given more time or not?
16:39 I think I'm going to say I think he will be.
16:48 Because I think Amanda and me, I'd add the ownership really value him.
16:54 The same as a special coach, which for Newcastle so far he has been.
17:03 I don't know. You put us on the spot, I say from both sides, because we're talking about the ambitions and the ownership and they want Newcastle to be number one.
17:15 And to have another poor season, you would naturally think probably results in the head coach being relieved of his duties.
17:21 But I just think they've invested so much in Eddie Howe, you know, he's been given a lot of control ever since he stepped through the door at Newcastle.
17:29 He was appointed as a head coach, but has been in charge of the transfers.
17:33 That was even when Dan Ashworth came in.
17:35 They put a lot of faith in him.
17:39 And I do think getting rid of Eddie Howe would be a last resort for them.
17:44 Things would have to go really, really bad for that to happen, in my opinion.
17:48 So I think, yeah, I'm going to sit on the fence on that one.
17:53 I think they'll be interested to see how things play out, shall we say.
17:57 I think the fan base will certainly be split if there was to have a poor season again next year.
18:05 So I'm enjoying the fan base, in my opinion, being split because you've got an ownership group, as I say, who have got so much ambition, want to be the best.
18:15 But then you've also got the ownership group who have got a lot of faith and love for Eddie Howe.
18:20 So it's a pretty impossible position to be in if things do indeed go the wrong way.
18:25 But look, I totally don't think it does because Eddie Howe has shown that with a full season, no injuries, less games.
18:36 There can be a real force in the Premier League.
18:39 And if that continues next year, then the conversation about Eddie Howe's future just won't come into it.
18:44 He'll be here for a very long time.
18:46 Of course, yes.
18:47 As I say, I thought I had to ask because it's a valid question.
18:51 Because, of course, he would have been at the club for three and a half or so years by then.
18:56 And questions would naturally be asked by the fans, the ownership, if they weren't in a good situation.
19:03 But let's give them the backing, perhaps, and give them the chance to right the wrongs of this season, even though they weren't, let's be honest, that many compared to where they've been in recent years under previous ownership and previous managers.
19:18 But, yes, there's a long, old season ahead and we'll be previewing it in the coming weeks.
19:24 But for now, let's just hope everything goes well.
19:28 In the here and now, of course, Newcastle got back from their trip to Australia, which we mentioned briefly last week.
19:45 It was an interesting one, wasn't it?
19:47 Of course, a draw and then win on penalties against Tottenham, with a lot of first teamers playing and then a few kids towards the end.
19:54 And then they play the A-League All-Stars game.
19:57 And let's be honest, they put a youth team out and it didn't go too well, I think is the nice way of putting it.
20:06 Was that a bit of a PR disaster, Jordan, in your opinion?
20:10 Because, of course, I know the fans got sort of their money's worth in the Tottenham game for those fans down under.
20:15 But let's be honest, it was a bit of a horror show when it came to the second game, wasn't it?
20:22 Yes, it was a pay-our-own-goal, I thought, because the Tottenham game, I think, if the trip stops at the Spurs game, it's a very successful trip.
20:34 And it feels like they had nothing to gain from the second game against the A-League All-Stars.
20:40 And look, again, I say from both sides, I see why the ownership or the commercial guys accepted the invitation to take part in Australia,
20:50 because of those PSR pressures and that need to get extra money in no matter any way you can.
20:58 And that's what they've done. And I understand that.
21:02 But it also put Eddie Howe and his players in an impossible position as well.
21:07 You just played a long Premier League season, Champions League games, Cup games, I think it resulted in 51 games, I think it was, last season.
21:15 You then fly out two hours after playing your final game of the Premier League season in Australia.
21:22 Bear in mind, it takes about 25 hours to travel over there. You're then playing the next day.
21:27 So the players that he put out against Spurs actually done very well to play that game.
21:31 And then Eddie Howe for player care, etc. as the rest of the players, I understand that.
21:37 But it's also left Newcastle open to what proved to be a disastrous result.
21:44 And in many ways, Newcastle, without knowing it, have probably made a mockery of the Australia trip, the A-League All-Stars game.
21:54 And the reason why I say that is because that's one of the biggest dates on the Australian football calendar.
22:00 The All-Stars have played Barcelona, Juventus and recent years, both of those teams, big European teams have put out strong teams, the strongest teams that they can.
22:12 And then Newcastle rock up and put out the kids, essentially, and the scoreline, they've probably got what they deserve.
22:20 But I'm not going to sit here and criticise anyone at Newcastle because as I say, I see it from both sides.
22:26 I see exactly why the commercial guys wanted the money because of the PSR rules.
22:31 And I see exactly why Eddie Howe arrested these players.
22:34 So, yeah, I'm not lying, blame it on anyone's door.
22:39 I just think it was disappointing to see that result come in on a Friday because had it stopped at the Tottenham trip, it would have been really successful.
22:49 But yeah, I think the result against the A-League All-Stars perhaps overshadowed the trip a little bit.
22:55 It did, yeah. I mean, you could argue, was it a case of did they play too many of their first teams against Tottenham?
23:01 And then you could have perhaps split it a little bit so at least both games had an element of competitiveness.
23:06 Because, of course, there were still some first team players around when it came to the A-League game.
23:12 But yeah, I think you're right in the sense that if they'd just had the Tottenham game, that would have been really good and it would have been a PR win.
23:22 But then after that, to then let something like that happen, it's not great.
23:27 I see it as well from a non-league football perspective because, of course, they've scrapped FA Cup replays of late.
23:35 And you think, well, if they're going to do that for player welfare, then they're going to allow them to go halfway across the other side of the world.
23:42 But then, of course, Eddie Howe has then not played them, so he's clearly looking at the player welfare.
23:46 But the fact that even they were allowed to go to Australia anyway, I know obviously from a commercial sense, it's a financial boost.
23:54 But there's a lot of avenues you can talk about when it comes to that one.
23:57 But I think for the Australian fans as well, because let's be honest, they have been a bit short-changed.
24:05 They've had a game against Tottenham, that's all right.
24:10 But then they've had a big game that they all wanted to go and see, and they've witnessed a mauling, to be honest.
24:17 It's awful.
24:19 That's who I feel sorry for the most, the Australian fans, because you'll have expats and Australia-based Newcastle fans who have been really looking forward to seeing these games.
24:31 And they've almost been stuck in the middle of, say, the owners wanting money and Eddie Howe wanting to protect these players.
24:39 And it's obviously me in the end, ending a bit of a disaster in terms of that result.
24:44 So that's who I feel sorry for.
24:49 So the trip as a whole, I think it generated Newcastle £5 million.
24:55 That's more than what they would get if they advanced in the latter stages of the Europa Conference League.
25:01 So it just shows how much that money means to Newcastle, if you like, in terms of the PSR rules, etc.
25:10 I don't think Newcastle fly to the other end of the world two hours after the final Premier League game, the season of PSR, doesn't exist.
25:19 Oh, yeah. It wouldn't happen, would it, to be honest?
25:23 There'd be no need to, that's all. That's the thing.
25:26 They've done that because they just want to get over that finishing line in terms of balancing the books sort of thing.
25:34 And that's a real shame, isn't it?
25:36 Well, it's not a shame because, of course, it's given fans on the other side of the world a chance to see the team.
25:41 But the only reason that they actually go in there is not because they want to go and meet those fans, because they're having to balance some books.
25:46 And so it's an ulterior motive, really, isn't it?
25:49 So it's one of the issues of modern football, I think, is what it is.
25:57 And even though it's appeasing other fans in other parts of the world, they've actually been shortchanged because of what they've been served up.
26:04 So, again, it's... And that's another part of modern football, of course, is the player welfare.
26:09 So all in all, there's a lot of things you can unpick about that trip and a lot of issues.
26:16 I mean, as I say, if it ended after the Tottenham game, fine, because that was a good spectacle.
26:22 I know that neither side were really playing at their best, but at least it was a competitive enough match and went to a penalty shootout and the crowd got something to go home with.
26:32 But as I say, after that, it just was a bit of a disaster.
26:36 But, you know, we'll leave that to those involved in the commercial side of Newcastle United and let's hope that they've managed to, well, I don't know, get the financial boost they were so looking for after all of that.
26:49 [MUSIC]
26:53 [APPLAUSE]
26:59 Anyway, though, Jordan, we'll move on because Newcastle today, at the time of recording, have released their retained list.
27:07 And, of course, the majority of players who you'd expect to stay are staying.
27:11 But there are a few notable departures who, let's be honest, we also expected to leave, given the fact that they don't have European football, because I think a couple of them probably would have stayed if they had had European football for those rules, etc.
27:23 But it's been confirmed that Paul Dummett, the club's longest serving player, Matt Ritchie, Lloris Karius, Jeff Hendrick and Kel Watts will all depart the club at the end of their contract.
27:35 And as I say, Jordan, none of them are a big surprise.
27:39 No, no surprise at all. I think as much as that Manchester City Cup final defeat impacted Newcastle's European hopes, it actually impacted the hopes of Matt Ritchie and Paul Dummett getting a new deal because Eddie Howe said in the weeks leading up to, or the days leading up to, the FA Cup final that their future would probably be dependent on that result because of the European qualification.
28:06 Obviously, that didn't happen. Newcastle didn't get Europe. And yeah, I think it just makes sense for those two players to go because they've been incredible servants. I don't think we should forget that.
28:23 Matt Ritchie, in particular, I think, in many ways, alongside Dwight Gale, helped drag Newcastle out of the championship that year under Rafa Benitez. Paul Dummett obviously played a key role.
28:36 But then Matt Ritchie also scored important goals in those early years under Rafa Benitez in the Premier League to keep Newcastle in the Premier League. I think the Manchester United result, I think when he scored against Arsenal, apparently against Manchester City, he's made some big contributions.
28:51 I don't think people should forget that. But I think over the last couple of years since Eddie Howe came in, those players are very surprised if they'd hit double figures in terms of appearances in the last couple of seasons.
29:06 And again, we'll go back to PSR. In a PSR world, you can't keep players who, let's be honest, Paul Dummett and Matt Ritchie won't be on a small wage. They'll be on a decent wage.
29:21 I think, OK, the great leaders behind the scenes, Eddie Howe spoke about that in the press release that's just been released by Newcastle, just how they raised the standard behind the scenes. Just real big characters.
29:34 And that's great, but you can't, again, in a PSR world, keep players on that wage just so they can be essentially cheerleaders in many ways behind the scenes.
29:47 So, yeah, the time has naturally come with the less amount of games next season. I'd be surprised if Matt Ritchie and Paul Dummett ever got the opportunity to play for Newcastle again next season.
29:59 Obviously, that'll be dependent on injuries, but you hope injuries won't happen in the pre-season levels.
30:06 Not again, George. I can't go through it again. Not again.
30:09 So that would be the only way Matt Ritchie and Paul Dummett got on the pitch next season. So, yeah, the time has come for them.
30:17 I think people should be appreciative of their efforts and accept that.
30:22 Yeah, I mean, fans have been saying for weeks, possibly even the last 12 months, that those players should leave.
30:29 And that's happened now. And, yeah, I think we should reflect on them being really positive influencers and really good servants for the club.
30:37 And then, yeah, on to Loris Karius. It was pretty made clear weeks ago that he was never going to stay.
30:44 I say weeks ago, probably even months ago, actually, when he's doing interviews in the Italian press saying that he wants to get a club in Italy.
30:51 Which I understand because his family's based over there. I think he's probably got ambitions to still play regular football.
30:58 He's only played twice for Newcastle in his two years at the club.
31:03 It's funny, he played one of the biggest games in Newcastle's recent history in the Cardinal Cup final.
31:09 Unbelievable.
31:10 Yeah, it was quite a story. And obviously, 12 months later, he was up against Arsenal in the Premier League.
31:17 So, yeah, no surprises to see him go. And then, yeah, Kel Watts, Jeff Henrich.
31:25 Jeff Henrich's the one, actually, because it feels like he'd been lurking for ages, where they couldn't quite get him off the books.
31:30 He'd been trying. He was involved in the squad for the first half of the season, when Eddie Howe first came in.
31:38 He was then left out of the squad. I think when the Queen's Park Rangers on loan came back, they tried to get rid of him permanently in the summer.
31:45 He ended up joining Redden, I think it was. And then he comes back again, he tried to get rid of him again.
31:52 He's got to go back out on loan, so he goes to Sheffield Wednesday.
31:56 Of course, his wages, given he signed as a free agent from Burnley, I think he was, I think a room at Figard's probably about £50,000, £60,000 a week, which is incredible.
32:07 For someone who's not playing for the club at all, and it's just going out on loan, that's a huge chunk of wage money that you're going on someone.
32:16 You can see why they've tried so hard to get rid of him, but it's just not been possible.
32:21 That's impacted them, so it's definitely good that they managed to eventually shift him on at the end of his contract.
32:28 Yeah, that had to. There's other players that should be moved on this summer as well, that are on your big wages.
32:35 Isaac Hayden, Ryan Fraser, they all fall in the same bracket where it's like a hangover, like Ashura, where they've signed these players on big wages.
32:47 They simply aren't good enough in many ways to play for Anfield.
32:52 They're also not good enough to play for a lot of other Premier League clubs as well.
32:57 Ryan Fraser probably is, but like you say, Jeff Henricks and Isaac Hayden, again, no disrespect to them two.
33:05 Isaac Hayden in particular, I think was a real good player for Anfield during his days, but I think injury's probably taken its toll on him a little bit.
33:13 He's found himself in a position where he isn't really good enough to play in the Premier League, so then you pitch him to Championship teams,
33:21 and then Championship teams can't afford to pay the wages that Jeff Henricks and Isaac Hayden are on.
33:27 So, yeah, to get Henricks off will be a big relief to Herney Castle and their wage bill.
33:33 I think the next step will probably be able to move the likes of Isaac Hayden off, and then also Ryan Fraser,
33:39 which I suspect he'll probably get a move to Southampton, given what he's just done for them this season,
33:44 helping them get back to the Premier League.
33:46 You've got Jamal Lewis, of course, as well. He's another one.
33:49 Jamal Lewis, yeah.
33:50 So, yeah, there's still a few.
33:52 And you think, well, if you can also move those on, obviously they're not going to get big bucks for them in terms of transfer fee,
33:58 but the wages that they'll be on will help.
34:00 And then you think, well, if you then sell a couple of the players who I think we've talked about in recent weeks,
34:07 who are, let's be honest, sellable assets within the first team, the likes of Miguel Maron, the likes of Callum Wilson,
34:15 even Keogh and Trippie, you could argue, at this stage.
34:20 Yeah, then you think, well, you don't really need to sell anyone else, do you?
34:23 Because that probably brings in enough PSR to bring in another couple, because you think, well,
34:29 if the selling of Alan St. Maximin last year, which was 23 million, if my memory serves roughly,
34:35 that allowed you to bring in Harvey Barnes, Tino Liverimento, Lewis Hall.
34:41 Well, obviously Lewis Hall hadn't come in at that point permanently, but he will now.
34:47 So it allowed for a good sort of 70 odd million pounds spend, roughly, in terms of PSR.
34:53 You think, well, these little, as much as they're not big numbers, they will help because they all add up.
35:00 [Cheering]
35:06 [Inaudible]
35:10 So, I think, yeah, so if you, I'll bring it back to you, Jordan, who else would you want moved on?
35:19 You've got rid of some of those players from the end of their contract there.
35:23 Then obviously you've mentioned Fraser, you've mentioned Lewis Hinton, Airstreight Hayden.
35:27 What's the likes of Wilson, Al-Moran, dare I say, a key in chip here, or someone else perhaps?
35:33 Yeah, for me, I think I've said it on here before, I think Miguel Al-Moran, for me, is probably the key for me this summer.
35:42 A player who's still a sellable asset, has interest from Saudi Arabia, I was there in January, will be there again this summer.
35:51 There's take as for him, and you'll probably be able to command at least £20 million, possibly even more for Al-Moran.
35:58 That's a big fee in terms of PSR, and you look at Al-Moran as a player, again, we talk about good servants, he has been a good servant.
36:10 That incredible goal scoring run in the season, Newcastle got the top four, but that was almost like a purple patch because he's never really hit those levels consistently.
36:20 I think you know what you get from Al-Moran, he works really hard, great yard on your squad, lovely lad, but just lacks that little bit of quality that you need in the final third.
36:34 Certainly on a consistent basis.
36:36 Anyways, I think even before, or even after Newcastle got top four, I think a lot of, certainly I was, and I think a lot of fans were as well,
36:45 saying, well, okay, Al-Moran scored 11 goals last season, but you probably still need to go out and sign a right winger.
36:51 And that's why I was a bit surprised that the one in signing, my left winger, Harvey Barnes, hadn't signed Anthony Gordon six months earlier.
36:59 But maybe part of the thinking was to move Anthony Gordon over to the right at some point, because he can't play anywhere across the front three.
37:06 But I think, yeah, looking at the squad, the right wing position is, for me, an obvious position to strengthen.
37:12 And who have you got in that position? Well, you've got Al-Moran, who you can't sell on his takers there.
37:17 So for me, yeah, I would sell Al-Moran this summer.
37:25 If it was an option to keep him as a squad player and there wasn't that PSR pressure, I probably would.
37:29 Probably would, wouldn't you? Yeah, you probably would.
37:31 But there is PSR pressures. Newcastle need to sell to maximise their budget.
37:36 Naturally, he's one of the standout ones to go. And then, you know, beyond that, I think Callum Wilson.
37:44 I love Callum Wilson. We've spoken here before. He is a top-class Premier League goalscorer.
37:53 And when he's fit and firing, they aren't many better, but he doesn't play games.
37:57 And it's a frustration because Newcastle can't go through a situation next season where they've only got Alexander Isaac fit.
38:04 Because, as I've seen with Isaac, he's also susceptible to picking up knocks as well.
38:09 So they need a striker that's going to come in and, you know, be a backup and who can play games.
38:16 And Isaac needs a rest and Callum Wilson just doesn't do that.
38:22 Could you keep Callum Wilson as a third choice? Again, I probably would do that.
38:26 But again, it goes back to PSR. So because of the pressures, you've got to make tough decisions.
38:33 So if it meant selling Callum Wilson and bringing in someone who he accepts is not going to be as good in terms of a goalscorer,
38:39 or plays games, then for me, it's probably a no-brainer.
38:44 And I think probably for his future as well, he's only got one year left on his contract.
38:50 If he wants to stay, you want a new contract. And it's up to Newcastle.
38:56 Is it a good financial decision to give a 32-year-old a new contract?
39:03 It wouldn't just be a one-year extension. He'd probably want a two, three-year contract.
39:06 It's the same in a lot of stages of his career. Newcastle probably aren't going to do that because of his injury record.
39:12 So then, naturally, for Wilson as well, there's an opportunity for him to go and get, you know, the term is one last big payday elsewhere.
39:20 And if there's a club that won't offer him a three-year contract, three, four-year contract elsewhere,
39:26 then he's probably at the mind to take that because it gives him long-term sort of security.
39:30 So I do think as well as a decision for Newcastle on Wilson, there's a decision for him as well.
39:34 And I think that's probably what's going to play out this summer.
39:38 Callum Wilson may want to leave this summer. We don't know yet.
39:41 It doesn't sound like, from what I've been hearing, it sounds very unlikely that he will stay.
39:46 But of course, these things change quite quickly.
39:50 And a final point as well, Kieran Trippiard, I was told in February that there would be interest from Saudi this summer.
39:56 I think it started to play out a little bit over the last few weeks.
39:59 I think Kieran Trippiard and Saudi Arabia has been mentioned in quite the same sentences over the last few weeks.
40:06 So again, another one, 34 out of contract next year.
40:11 Do you keep him, let him leave as a free transfer next summer?
40:15 Do you sell him and try and make some money off him? Or do you offer him a new contract?
40:19 It's tough. There's a few players who are out of contract next year.
40:23 So Newcastle have got decisions to make in terms of whether to, say, let him leave for free, keep them or sell them.
40:33 They certainly do, yes. And I think obviously they've got to show sort of what they're made of.
40:39 I think a little bit, don't they? They've got to show whether they're ruthless or not.
40:42 Because as much as we have an affection for a lot of these players because of what they've done for Newcastle,
40:47 if they want to be a progressive club, it might actually be the right time to, you know,
40:53 you've got to cut your losses eventually and got to move people on.
40:56 And it will sort of show what their ambition is like if they're able to either do that or not do that.
41:03 Because a squad has to evolve, you know, we look at Manchester City as much as they didn't do us a favour on Saturday.
41:10 As a club, they know when it is right to move players on and get a good deal.
41:16 They sold Raheem Sterling to Chelsea, they sold Cole Palmer to Chelsea.
41:19 Both two players who were doing pretty well at the time, you know, Sterling especially was doing really well for Man City at that time.
41:27 And then they just, you know, they sold him because they thought, right, we're going to bring someone else in.
41:31 They sold Leroy Sane to Bayern Munich. All these types of players.
41:36 So it shows that if you can, you should, to be honest, because in a PSR dominated world where cash and money is king,
41:48 you've got to go along with that and you've got to bring in the money here and when you can.
41:53 And if you don't do that and you hold off, it can affect you in the long term in terms of what you can spend
41:58 and how your squad evolves or either doesn't evolve.
42:02 Anyway, Jordan, I think that's about it this week. It seems a relatively quiet week in terms of Newcastle.
42:07 I know obviously we've had the return list come out. The new temporary club shop opened this morning as well.
42:13 And we'll have the return of IHS, I know it's on the club website now as well.
42:20 So that's all there. And of course, the new home kit launches at the end of next week, I do believe.
42:28 Is it the 7th of June? I think it was. It is, yeah.
42:33 And so obviously you've got that to look forward to. So in terms of the coming weeks on the podcast,
42:38 as I say, it might not be as long as this. If something happens, we'll jump on and we'll do little videos on them.
42:45 But I don't think we'll be having as many 40 odd minute podcast episodes.
42:51 I've rambled on this one.
42:55 I think we're just trying to fill gaps in now. Newcastle, as I say, the summer is in full flow now.
43:02 There's not a lot to talk about. The transfer window won't pick up perhaps for another few weeks.
43:09 I know we could have mentioned Lloyd Kelly. We could have mentioned Tosin Aderabayo, who I can't pronounce now, by the way.
43:16 I've learned. I only decided a story on him yesterday, to be honest, for TV.
43:21 But yeah, obviously, Chelsea put an offering for him, so we'll see how that goes.
43:26 And we will jump back in on this if anything happens, essentially.
43:31 So the podcast might dip in its regularity over the next few weeks.
43:35 But as I say, if if things happen, we will be we will be straight on to chat about them.
43:40 But until then, have a lovely summer. Let's hope that next season is as good as we've perhaps bigged it up to be a little bit in this podcast.
43:49 You know, a lot to look forward to, hopefully. But until then, or until something happens, at least, away the lads.