Murray To Blinken: Our Weapons Cannot 'Contribute To Violations Of International Humanitarian Law’

4 months ago

On Tuesday, President Pro Tempore Patty Murray (D-WA) questioned Secretary of State Antony Blinken on the usage of weapons provided by the US abroad during a Senate Appropriations Committee hearing.

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Transcript

00:00 Senator Murray, Chair Murray.

00:03 Thank you very much, Chair Coons, and thank you, Secretary Blinken, for joining us.

00:07 As I think every member of this committee would agree, this is an extremely challenging

00:11 moment across the world, and amid these challenges, your department's work couldn't be more important.

00:18 Our strength at home and across the world isn't just measured by the strength of our

00:22 military, it is measured by our diplomacy, our influence abroad, and our strategic investments

00:28 like supporting our allies, building partnerships, strengthening trade and supply chains, and

00:34 protecting civilians.

00:36 That's why these types of investments were a key part of the national security supplemental

00:41 that I worked so hard to pass earlier this year.

00:44 We proved Congress can still come together to stand by our allies, like in Ukraine, and

00:49 show American leadership is still strong.

00:52 We know there's a lot more work to do.

00:55 So when it comes to America's national security, it is absolutely critical we ensure that your

00:59 department has the resources needed to fulfill its essential mission.

01:04 After all, Vladimir Putin is not operating his brutal invasion by a CR, and President

01:10 Xi certainly is not cutting investments in diplomacy or military or economic assistance

01:16 or international development.

01:19 The lesson should be clear.

01:21 When we fail to properly invest in the State Department and the powerful diplomatic tools

01:26 we have, our adversaries fill the gap.

01:29 So I'm delighted you're here today and look forward to the conversation.

01:32 Mr. Secretary, U.S. foreign policy should reflect our interests, and that means being

01:37 consistent with our values.

01:39 That includes protecting human rights and upholding the rule of law.

01:43 We have to stand by our allies in time of need, and at the same time, we have a responsibility

01:48 to make sure weapons we provide do not contribute to violations of international humanitarian

01:54 law, which exist to limit suffering caused by warfare, even when the war itself is justified.

02:00 In May, the administration transmitted its first report under National Security Memorandum

02:05 20 to Congress.

02:07 This report found it was reasonable to assess some partner countries are using U.S.-provided

02:12 weapons in a manner that is inconsistent with international law.

02:16 Clearly, more needs to be done to ensure human rights and the rule of law are central in

02:21 our decisions regarding to what extent and under what conditions we provide security

02:26 assistance to partner countries.

02:28 What steps are you taking to ensure security, assistance, legal requirements, and policies

02:34 are being fully implemented?

02:37 Thank you very much, Chair.

02:38 And let me first say I fully agree with you.

02:42 And it is imperative that as we provide security assistance, defense support to other countries,

02:49 to allies and partners, that it be used in a way that upholds international humanitarian

02:55 law, the law of armed conflict, et cetera.

02:59 And we have processes in place, in fact, newly established in this administration to try

03:07 to make sure that we're doing that, particularly when it comes to the conventional arms transfer

03:13 policy, something we call the CHERG process, which tries to assess whether in any given

03:17 incident involving civilian casualties American weapons were used.

03:24 And those processes are actually underway.

03:26 We have multiple inquiries going on with regard to specific incidents.

03:33 I'm referring here to Gaza.

03:36 The challenge – and I think it's reflected in the NSM report that you referred to – the

03:40 challenge is making final determinations in the midst of a war, in the midst of conflict.

03:46 It's very hard to get all of the dispositive information.

03:49 We're not on the ground.

03:50 We don't have access.

03:51 In the case of Gaza, you have an extraordinarily complicated battlefield where Hamas, a terrorist

03:57 organization, hides behind and underneath civilians in apartment buildings and hospitals

04:02 and mosques, making it very, very difficult to make final, real-time assessments.

04:08 But as you noted and as the report concluded, given the totality of the damage that's

04:12 been done to civilians in Gaza and given the fact that there is – American weaponry is

04:19 there, it was reasonable to assess that in some instances it had been used in ways that

04:26 are not consistent with international humanitarian law.

04:29 These instances are under investigation.

04:30 They're under investigation by us.

04:32 They're also under investigation by Israel.

04:35 There are hundreds of open inquiries in Israel.

04:38 There are criminal investigations that are underway in Israel.

04:42 And our own process I take very seriously.

04:44 We can't have double standards, whether it's Israel or any other country that we

04:47 provide weapons to, in making sure to the best of our ability that they're used consistent

04:51 with the requirements of international humanitarian law.

04:54 QUESTION: Do you have sufficient staff and resources to meet that objective?

04:57 SECRETARY BLINKEN: It's a very good question, and it's something that we're looking

05:01 very hard at, because I think in order to do something like this in real time, the answer

05:08 is probably no.

05:10 It's incredibly labor-intensive, and even with that, not having access in the midst

05:15 of a war makes it even more difficult.

05:17 We're looking at ways that we can better resource what we're doing, and that's

05:24 certainly something we'll come to you with, because I want to make sure that we do it

05:27 as thoroughly and as effectively as possible, even given the conditions in which we're

05:31 doing it.

05:32 QUESTION: Okay.

05:33 Thank you.

05:34 And let me turn to Ukraine.

05:35 I really appreciated your update on where you are deploying new weapons and nonmilitary

05:39 aid to Ukraine.

05:40 But despite our tireless efforts here in the Senate, the national security supplemental

05:44 was significantly delayed, and I'm very worried about the window that that has now

05:49 given Putin and Russia to build up their forces and make the advances that we have seen in

05:54 the last few weeks.

05:55 I'm also really concerned about reports of Russia's increased weapons production

06:01 and the challenges the U.S., our European partners, and Ukraine will have in keeping

06:06 up with them.

06:07 You were just in Kyiv.

06:09 Given the recent gains on the battlefield by Russia, what is your assessment of how

06:13 quickly the aid and support alongside our allies could translate to the Ukrainians holding

06:18 the line or, in fact, regaining territory?

06:20 MR.

06:21 STERN: I think it's translating into that right now.

06:26 Items that were funded or supported by the supplemental are already there, and more – much

06:31 more is flowing.

06:32 But we've already seen that arrive.

06:34 I think it's had two impacts, clearly a psychological impact, which Ukraine very much

06:38 needed in this moment.

06:39 It really bucked them up to know that all of this was on the way.

06:42 But we're also starting to see a practical impact in terms of these necessary pieces

06:48 of equipment, arms getting into the hands of Ukrainians when they need it most.

06:52 Now what's going on in the northeast?

06:55 You primarily have a challenge of making sure that in the first instance Ukrainians have

06:58 effective defenses against the attempt by the Russians to create a buffer zone and to

07:04 challenge Kharkiv.

07:05 But I think we're getting to a point where that's starting to come into effect.

07:10 So my hope and expectation, based on what we've seen, is you will see a stronger and

07:16 stronger resilience to what Russia is trying to do as a result of the supplemental, as

07:21 a result of things that Europeans are providing.

07:24 But I have to tell you, the – there was real damage done over the last eight months,

07:31 and that gap unfortunately was filled to some extent by the Russians pushing forward.

07:36 Now I think we have – the Ukrainians have the means to more effectively deal with that.

07:40 MODERATOR: Okay, thank you.

07:41 Thank you very much, Mr. Secretary.

Murray To Blinken: Our Weapons Cannot 'Contribute To Violations Of International Humanitarian Law’

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