• 5 months ago
#Khabar#JusticeBabarSattar #IslamabadHighCourt #AsimMunir #Establishment #SupremeCourt #ImranKhan #QaziFaezIsa #KashifAbbasi #MohammadMalick

(Current Affairs)

Host:
- Meher Bokhari

Guests:
- Shahbaz Ali Khan Khosa (Lawyer)
- Kashif Abbasi (Analyst)
- Muhammad Malik (Senior Analyst)

Legal Expert Shahbaz Khosa's analysis on Attorney General's statement regarding Justice Sattar

SC allows PTI chief to appear in NAB tweaks case via video link - Kashif Abbasi & Malick's Analysis

Kashif Abbasi's reaction on Khawaja Asif's statement regarding Artical 6

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Transcript
00:00 Assalam-o-Alaikum and good evening, I am Meher Bukhari.
00:13 After the letter of six judges, Justice Babar Sattar has claimed that he has been given
00:20 a message from the top officials of the Security Department to step back.
00:24 But in a low reaction, the government has clearly refused to accept Justice Babar Sattar's
00:31 claim.
00:32 The Attorney General has claimed that the judge Babar Sattar has not been given any
00:37 message on behalf of the security establishment.
00:39 With the claim and response, Justice Babar Sattar and the government have stood face
00:43 to face.
00:44 Whether there is a complaint of interference in the letter of the judges or whether there
00:48 is a complaint of interference in the letter of the judges, the government's response
00:55 to this is a question of timing and the conduct of the judges.
01:00 In the letter written to the Chief Justice of Islamabad High Court, Justice Babar Sattar
01:05 has revealed that during the hearing of the audio leaks case, he received messages from
01:10 the top officials of the security establishment to step back.
01:13 The letter states that he has not paid any attention to such threatening messages and
01:20 has not felt that such messages are a threat to the justice system.
01:25 In the letter written to Justice Babar Sattar, it is said that in the audio leaks case, the
01:32 court was asked if there is a legal system that allows the surveillance of the citizens.
01:38 In response to this question, the court issued a notice to the heads of the intelligence
01:45 and investigators, including the ISI, IB, FIA, and other legal regulators like PTA and
01:51 Pemra.
01:52 According to Justice Babar Sattar, in the PTA-related cases, the focus of the conspiracy
01:57 on malice seems to be on the threat of the judicial proceedings.
02:01 This part of Justice Babar Sattar's letter, paragraph 13, is the most important part of
02:06 the case, and is also going viral on social media.
02:10 After the appearance of this claim of Justice Babar Sattar, the Attorney General often
02:15 refuted it and said that no such message was given from the security establishment.
02:20 Please pay attention to the content of the letter, what has he said that he is a victim
02:27 of the destruction of justice.
02:29 According to the information, no security establishment officer has contacted us directly
02:36 and they can't do it.
02:38 So that contact was through the Attorney General's office and it was to the extent that such
02:45 sensitive information should be encameraded.
02:48 It was only a request.
02:50 The late Azam Nazeer Tarrar and Atta Tarrar also refuted the claim of interference in
02:56 the judicial proceedings and said that no one told Justice Babar Sattar to step back.
03:02 An impression was created that there is interference in the court.
03:07 The government and the institutions are in a position that the independent courts take
03:12 the country forward, but there are some responsibilities.
03:15 So all institutions should have a little space for each other.
03:19 We work in our own compartments.
03:22 You write letters, but you meet people at wedding ceremonies, you meet diplomats, your
03:28 circle is very wide.
03:29 We as public reps publish all our travel documents, there is scrutiny.
03:34 So see, don't take this matter so far.
03:37 So writing a letter to the Chief Justice of the same court, from which you have daily
03:42 meetings, I understand that this is a matter of controversy and no one gave this message
03:47 that you should step back.
03:48 It was only said about the in-camera briefing.
03:50 The government is taking a clear position.
03:53 Before putting pressure on the judiciary and the interference of the institutions in the
03:57 court, the six judges of this High Court have also done so from the Chief Justice of Pakistan.
04:03 Justice Babar Sattar is among those six judges who have previously complained about the interference
04:08 in the courts and the country's largest court, the Supreme Court, is signing the notice
04:13 itself on this matter.
04:14 On May 7, during the notice itself, Justice Sattar Minnalla also admitted that interference
04:20 in the court is a fact.
04:21 In the past hearing, the Chief Justice of Pakistan and Justice Sattar Minnalla also had a great
04:26 dialogue on this matter.
04:28 Justice Sattar Minnalla said that for the past 74 years, lies have been spoken in this country.
04:33 Why are we afraid?
04:34 Why don't you tell the truth?
04:35 We should admit the fact of interference in the court.
04:38 Chief Justice Qazi Faiz Isa has passed remarks on the remarks of Justice Sattar Minnalla
04:42 that if someone thinks that the judge is doing a joint debate, then they should not sit here
04:47 but should go to their home.
04:49 On this, Justice Sattar Minnalla told the Chief Justice that is it only me saying this,
04:54 not me, but Tony General also has to say that the judge was in a joint meeting.
04:58 We will remember that from here, from this court, JITs were also formed, monitoring judges
05:07 were appointed who were against Article 203.
05:12 And then after that, whatever happened in 2017 and 2021, it is in front of everyone,
05:17 I do not want to talk about it anymore.
05:20 But I do want to remind you that on one hand, there is the freedom of justice, which is the
05:25 fundamental pillar of the law.
05:27 But on the other hand, there is also the credibility of the executive, which is also at stake.
05:32 When you move this matter forward, and it should move forward, then you will also keep in mind
05:39 that there is a specific thing that there is a continuing policy of the federal government.
05:43 I reject that.
05:45 I deny that.
05:47 I deny that.
05:48 The cabinet of loyalty has also done that.
05:50 You tell me, you said in the last hearing that political engineering was being done in 2016 and 2017.
05:57 Who was in government?
05:59 Who was in government?
06:01 In 2017, it was PMLN, which was in power.
06:05 In 2018, it was PGI.
06:08 One second, one second.
06:10 So the government was helpless?
06:12 That is the reality.
06:13 Yes.
06:14 At this time, Justice Jamal Khan Mandukhel also admitted that there are no two opinions
06:20 on the matter of interference in justice.
06:22 First of all, the political parties want justice to be used for them.
06:26 On this, Justice Atif Minhallah admitted that if there was a political party that took advantage of justice in 2018,
06:32 then today there is another political party.
06:34 There has been a history of interference and pressure in justice.
06:37 From the controversial statements of Justice Naseem Hassan Shah to the audio leaks of Justice Qayyum,
06:42 or the questions raised by the politicians on Justice Khosa Saab, Justice Bandeyal and Justice Shaukat Aziz Siddiqui.
06:48 These same political people were also objecting to the conduct of those judges.
06:52 In this history of the freedom of the court, the statements of Justice Sajjad Ali Shah also indicate
06:58 that there has been pressure and pressure on this freedom and this independent institution in every era.
07:04 Nawaz Sharif also wants his favorite judge.
07:09 Sir, tell me, what were the important documents in that briefcase?
07:12 The briefcase that we heard about, you are also talking about it today.
07:15 They were not important documents, they were pictures of the Prime Minister.
07:20 If you want to hear this, everyone says it.
07:23 The documents are presented in the court.
07:25 During the closure of the Panama case, the special personality's arrest in the court is also a part of the record.
07:31 But today, the government and the Attorney General are denying the claims of Justice Babar Sattar
07:37 and the judges have been given the impression of misconduct for the past few weeks.
07:44 I want to know your opinion. Doesn't this letter constitute a misconduct of the judges?
07:50 What is your opinion?
07:51 Is this a misconduct or not? I am sitting as a government representative in today's press conference
07:56 and as the Minister of Justice, I will refuse to answer this question.
07:59 I think the answer to this question should come from the commission.
08:02 And we leave this matter to the court to decide whether it is a misconduct or not,
08:06 whether they understand it or not.
08:08 It should have been clear that the message given by the Minister of Justice is not a misconduct.
08:13 This is their right.
08:14 It should have been that the Attorney General would have taken a stand on this.
08:18 But this did not happen.
08:19 The impression that is being given again and again is not hidden from anyone by the government.
08:23 Along with the claim of Justice Babar Sattar's message being accepted,
08:26 a propaganda campaign is going on on social media under a scheme against Justice Babar Sattar.
08:31 On 6th May, Justice Babar Sattar had said in his letter that
08:34 his and his family's secret information was leaked on the social media campaign.
08:38 Before this, on 28th April, the Islamabad High Court issued a statement on the social media campaign against Justice Babar Sattar
08:44 stating that Justice Babar Sattar's green card, his children's American citizenship, American property and family business.
08:51 In this statement, it was said that Justice Babar Sattar does not have any citizenship other than Pakistan.
08:58 Babar Sattar left his American job and came to Pakistan.
09:00 And the Chief Justice of that time knew about Justice Babar Sattar's green card.
09:04 In this statement, it was also said that a campaign against Justice Babar Sattar is going on on social media.
09:11 The Chief Justice of the Islamabad High Court changed Justice Babar Sattar's letter to a request of a retrial and decided to take a court action.
09:18 And today, in this case, the High Court has issued notices to the Attorney General of Pakistan, FIA, IB, ISI and PEMRA for the leaking of Justice Babar Sattar's family's secret information.
09:30 During the session of the Lodger Bench, Justice Mohsin Akhtar Qayani said that he will notify all the institutions and get a report.
09:37 Now, no one has the courage to approach the judge.
09:40 Justice Mohsin Akhtar Qayani further said that the most disturbing thing is that the judge's secret information has been leaked.
09:47 Either the accounts of the state institutions have been hacked or the state institutions have leaked this information.
09:53 Justice Mohsin Akhtar Qayani, while expressing his opinion, said that the role of ISI, IB and PTA has to be looked at.
10:00 It is not possible at all that all this should be done on social media or print or electronic media.
10:05 It is very easy to say that fifth generation warfare is there.
10:08 If anyone tries to approach, then the court proceedings will be held up to the High Office.
10:13 This is the most important matter of interference in court matters.
10:16 And today, new revelations are raising questions on the seriousness of this matter, the freedom of the court and the government intention.
10:22 A little bit of a break, we will be back after the break.
10:25 Additional Secretary, Supreme Court Bar Association, Shabaz Khosla is with us.
10:34 Mr. Khosla, thank you very much for being with us.
10:36 You said that a paragraph has come in Justice Babur Sattar's letter.
10:41 This seems to be the longest letter.
10:44 But what are its dimensions, what is its context, we do not know.
10:47 But on this paragraph, the government of the time, the Attorney General and the Minister of Justice and the Minister of Information,
10:54 by doing U-press conferences, to reject it, what will you say?
10:59 Look, the first thing is that the people of Pakistan and the civil society of Pakistan
11:08 are standing with the court for the freedom of the court.
11:13 We will stand with our courts and these brave judges like a wall.
11:19 Wherever there is a matter of interference, whether it is lower judiciary, whether it is judges of the High Court,
11:25 whether it is judges of the Supreme Court, the people of Pakistan will stand with their judges.
11:31 In this case, we are grateful and grateful to the judges of Islamabad High Court
11:36 that they dared and wrote this letter and about this constant interference,
11:43 they kept informing their Chief Justice again and again and they kept informing Chief Justice Pakistan.
11:48 And as you know that a Suomoto 1 of 2024 is going on on this,
11:54 in which the whole of Pakistan's judiciary was asked for input to solve this issue.
11:59 You have also given your advice.
12:01 The judges of the whole of Pakistan acknowledged the interference in this.
12:07 In this, the High Court of Islamabad, the High Court of Sindh at Karachi,
12:12 apart from this, the Balochistan High Court, apart from this, the Peshawar High Court, Lahore High Court,
12:17 everyone acknowledged that interference is an ongoing process.
12:21 And this note of Justice Babar Sattar which is circulating today, this is in continuation of those letters.
12:28 In this, the judges were being criticized that why the judges themselves did not use their rights
12:35 and why they did not issue notices of contempt of court on this interference.
12:40 So, the judges of Babar Sattar and Islamabad High Court took a very happy step on this
12:47 and started taking notice of these things.
12:50 And as you know that in their matter today, the proceedings of contempt of court were also going on.
12:56 This is a continued interference.
12:58 Another audio leak case is going on with Justice Babar Sattar.
13:01 But I am trying to find out from you that why is the government reacting like this?
13:05 First of all, Tony General is not even mentioned in this paragraph.
13:07 Tony General again pressed the conference.
13:09 He presented himself and said that he mentioned himself that I took him.
13:13 You told about the character. He is not even mentioned in this.
13:16 Then you saw that the government pressed the conference.
13:19 Earlier also, these same officials were there.
13:21 They were told that they were taken in custody.
13:26 I can understand that their body language is so harsh in the press conference.
13:32 You go to weddings, you meet people, your social circle is big, you meet diplomats.
13:36 Don't do this. You should work for the executive.
13:40 I mean it was very aggressive. What was the need for this?
13:43 There was absolutely no need for this.
13:47 The office of Attorney General is created under Article 100 of the Constitution.
13:52 This is the only office and the office of Advocate General is the only office.
13:58 These are two offices which have been created.
14:01 Which are in the middle of Independence and Judiciary.
14:05 They are a part of the government and a part of the judicature.
14:09 Therefore, they become the communication medium between the executive and the judiciary.
14:16 But to pass on these threats or to do such press conferences,
14:20 this does not give them anything.
14:22 Especially the information advisor, he was not at all supposed to come and talk in this matter.
14:27 This was a case where if Attorney General wanted to pass a message to the judge,
14:33 he should have approached the Chief Justice.
14:37 And the Chief Justice would have taken consent from the judge that he is coming on this matter.
14:43 So, would you like to meet him or does this question come under National Security?
14:49 So, it has been regulated.
14:51 And these are also our proposals which we have given as Supreme Court Bar Association and Pakistan Bharat Ke Bukala.
14:58 And the proposals given by the judges, it has been said to be regulated in the same way.
15:02 But this Law Minister and doing such press conferences of Attorney General, in consequence of this,
15:09 this is not at all fair.
15:13 And she is trying to give this impression again and again that there is no interference.
15:15 Why is the government denying continuously?
15:19 I wanted to avoid it but I can't say anything other than this.
15:25 And Attorney General has said that if any reference is made against Justice Babar Sattar,
15:30 then he will resign and defend him.
15:33 But still he has opted for this press conference. What would you say?
15:39 Maybe there is pressure on him as well because this does not give him any freedom.
15:44 He avoided it in the last hearing in the case of Audio League.
15:47 Where five different institutions have requested the judge to recuse on a flimsy ground.
15:55 And it was said that the judge has written a letter against the intelligence agencies,
16:00 so he should not hear this case.
16:03 So, with this argument and these applications, Attorney General resigned.
16:07 But this press conference, maybe he was trying to clarify in this,
16:12 that maybe he did not say to move but said that he sent a message to an institution that this should be done in camera.
16:21 If he had to send such a message, then maybe he should not have sent it in this way.
16:25 He should have moved an application, before the court.
16:27 But Mr. Khosla, don't you think that now the responsibility is on Babar Sattar as well?
16:32 He has done a contempt proceedings against DC Islamabad.
16:36 Today, if he is talking about it, his words are, I was told to back off from extensive scrutiny.
16:42 I was delivered messages on behalf of top officials in the security establishment.
16:46 Why don't you take the name? Why don't you bring contempt to the court?
16:50 Look, we have said in our proposals that when a judge will file a complaint like this,
16:57 then because he is a judge, he gets punished for his decisions,
17:02 billions of rupees of properties are transferred on his decisions.
17:05 We keep them on a high pedestal.
17:08 And a presumption of truth must be attached with the word of a judge.
17:11 And secondly, this is a kind of clandestine interference.
17:15 This is not done in broad daylight.
17:18 So, the requirement of evidence is not of that kind.
17:21 The onus should not be on the judge to prove that I have been interfered.
17:26 When the judge is saying that I have been interfered,
17:29 then the court that is being talked about, should explain to himself why he has done this.
17:34 And the last question, Mr. Khosla, this case is going on in the Supreme Court as well.
17:36 But the High Court has issued notices to the Attorney General's Office, FIA, IBISI and PEMRA
17:41 on the leak of the confidential information of Justice Babar Sattar's family.
17:43 Do you see something coming out of this?
17:47 I think the judiciary, especially the judges of the Islamabad High Court,
17:51 have put up a brave front.
17:53 They are leading the forefront in this movement for independence of judiciary.
17:58 And I feel that in the whole of Pakistan,
18:01 you must have seen the judges in the Suhoor-Motto hearing,
18:03 you saw a divide and then a consensus.
18:07 Everyone is on board as far as the independence of judiciary is concerned.
18:11 Even Justice Qazi Faiz Isa Sahib,
18:14 who has suffered a lot from executive interference,
18:17 because he had independent views at that time,
18:21 he was also victimised by this kind of movement.
18:24 He also gave explanations to his wife everywhere.
18:27 He kept saying that nothing has happened in my time.
18:30 I am not responsible for what has happened in the past.
18:32 But now this letter that has come out, does it overlap in his time, Mr. Khosla?
18:36 Yes, it does overlap in his time.
18:40 We are also a little ashamed of this,
18:44 that why didn't Qazi Sahib see how much interference happened in his time.
18:47 But the judges who are sitting with him,
18:49 they all keep acknowledging this.
18:51 You must have seen the view of Athar Minilla Sahib, Mandu Khel Sahib,
18:55 Mansoor Ali Shah Sahib.
18:59 Everyone has been acknowledging this.
19:01 And they have been giving blinders that now the time has come
19:05 that they should take a step for independence of judiciary.
19:08 We have with us Shabaz Khosla, Additional Secretary,
19:10 Supreme Court Bar Association.
19:12 A very short break, we are going to be right back.
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