TikTok Helped This Woman Become A Best Selling Author

Forbes

Author Emily Henry joins “Forbes Talks” to discuss the release of her new book “Funny Story,” how 'Booktok' made her book sales surge, and what to expect from the movie adaptations.  Subscribe to FORBES: https://www.youtube.com/user/Forbes?sub_confirmation=1  Fuel your success with Forbes. Gain unlimited access to premium journalism, including breaking news, groundbreaking in-depth reported stories, daily digests and more. Plus, members get a front-row seat at members-only events with leading thinkers and doers, access to premium video that can help you get ahead, an ad-light experience, early access to select products including NFT drops and more:  https://account.forbes.com/membership/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=growth_non-sub_paid_subscribe_ytdescript  Stay Connected Forbes newsletters: https://newsletters.editorial.forbes.com Forbes on Facebook: http://fb.com/forbes Forbes Video on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/forbes Forbes Video on Instagram: http://instagram.com/forbes More From Forbes:  http://forbes.com  Forbes covers the intersection of entrepreneurship, wealth, technology, business and lifestyle with a focus on people and success.

Transcript

00:00Hello and welcome. I'm Sarah Mueller, a reporter with Forbes, and today I am joined by bestselling

00:08author Emily Henry. Emily, thank you so much for joining me. I'm ecstatic to have you here.

00:16Thank you for having me. This is like, yeah, very cool. I'm so happy it worked out.

00:20Yeah. Well, okay. Obviously you have Funny Story that just came out last week, but some

00:25of the other titles you have include Beach Read, which my book club is doing in a couple

00:30of months, People We Meet on Vacation, Book Lovers, Happy Place. And so just kind of to

00:36get started, all of your releases happen about April, May, right before the summer reading

00:41lists start to be made. Tell me about kind of being a summer read for people. How did

00:47you kind of get onto that trend? Yeah, I mean, well, like so many things in life and in publishing,

00:54it wasn't just I tripped and that's what happened. I mean, Beach Read, I knew I was

00:59writing a summery book. I was writing it in the spring when I was just desperate to be

01:04like on hot sand with a drink in hand. You know the feeling. You're a Midwest girl. So

01:11you know, it's like the seasons just as one is wrapping up, you're just dying for the

01:15next one. And so that's what Beach Read was for me, why I was writing that. And we knew

01:20from the beginning that we were going to be trying to time the release that way so

01:24that people could be like as immersed in the world as possible. And then it just kept happening.

01:32It kept happening. And, you know, once I had done two books that were sort of vacationy

01:37romances, it, it made sense to just keep pushing that and this is the first one that I've written

01:43that's more of like a staycation romance, but it's still a summery, warm, inviting read

01:49hopefully.

01:50Yes. And we're going to get into some of those topics because I like to call your books a

01:54hug. They feel like a hug to me. So just to get started, I want to talk about BookTok

02:00because people can't see it on my part of the zoom, but I have almost 500 books in this

02:06library and I'm heavily influenced to purchase more, which is where I bought a lot of your

02:11books from. So talk a little bit about how TikTok has played a role in making a lot of

02:17your books popular.

02:19Yeah. I mean, it's an amazing thing because publishers spend a lot of time and money trying

02:26to figure out how to make books hit. And, you know, we talked a little bit before this

02:31about pulling back the curtain on publishing. And the truth is that usually publishing is

02:37kind of being run with like the tentpole method where it's like all the resources and money

02:42are going to what we call lead titles. And then the hope is that if, if that title really

02:46pops off, the money coming in will allow editors to keep buying other books and supporting

02:51other books. But it's like not, you know, an even playing field from the get go. The

02:56cool thing about BookTok is that it is reader driven. And so there have been books that

03:02are backlist titles, meaning they came out years ago that take off there. And it's not

03:08because the publisher is necessarily throwing money at them or getting them the best placement

03:13in bookstores or what have you. It's really because someone loved what they read so much

03:18that they made a video like sobbing about it. And that excitement is contagious. Like

03:24as a reader, when you talk to someone who really loves something, of course, you want

03:28to go check it out and see if you feel the same way. Or even if like, you know, they're

03:31describing it and you're like, that doesn't sound like my thing at all. There's like a

03:33different kind of curiosity where you're like, maybe I'll just go see what this is all about.

03:39So it's been, I mean, it's been amazing because BookTok really didn't embrace my books until

03:45a little bit after my second book, People We Meet on Vacation came out. And we suddenly

03:50saw this huge spike in sales. And my editor and agent and I were all back channeling like,

03:55did you notice that in this, you know, sales portal thing? Like, what was that? And then

04:00I had friends sending me videos of some TikTok creators that were just like raving about

04:07the books. And it was so cool to realize that it was being driven by readers. And I've

04:11watched since then as every single publisher has sort of scrambled to try and figure out

04:16how they can, you know, put something out into the world of BookTok and make it happen.

04:22And they haven't, as far as I'm aware, really been able to, it's like, really, like truly

04:28reader driven. And that's very cool.

04:31That is kind of the core of BookTok is to be reader driven. It's not necessarily this

04:36marketing that is highly polished, right? I want to get into some BookTok subjects that

04:43have been brought up about your books that I find personally fascinating, which is that

04:48some of your plot lines have changed based on where they're published. So there's maybe

04:54something that is a little bit different in the UK version of Beach Read than is in the

05:00US version. Even the UK title for people we meet on vacation is You and Me on Vacation.

05:07Can you kind of pull back the curtain for us and tell us a little bit about those?

05:10Yeah, sure. So the most pronounced differences in the books happened in the earlier books

05:16because I had sold the books to a US publisher. We'd gone through a whole editing process

05:20and then a UK publisher bought rights, and they had some additional thoughts. And so

05:26with Beach Read, that was the one with the most distinct thing that BookTok is like,

05:30there's two different endings to this book. And I really do genuinely feel like they're

05:34both true. They're both right. But, you know, they're for different markets. And so there's

05:40that piece of things. And there's also the fact of an editor being like, I love this,

05:43but if I had been editing it from the beginning, I would have had these questions or what have

05:48you. And so that was like the start of Beach Read having kind of this like split. And,

05:55the longer that we're doing this, the more the UK editors are also involved earlier on and their

06:00notes kind of get folded in. So I don't know if there will always be differences. But it is

06:05interesting because there are things you just don't really know are so specific to your market,

06:12which is a depressing way to think of people. But in the US, like in the People We Meet on

06:18Vacation US edition, Alex has a vasectomy and he talks about getting a vasectomy. And

06:25Alex is also a character who thinks that he probably does want children someday.

06:30But he's like, you know what, the odds of, like, you can have a vasectomy reversed and,

06:35you know, things can always go wrong in any procedure of any kind and just in life. But

06:40to him, it's worth it to get this vasectomy with the thought of like, I'll reverse it someday when

06:45I'm ready to have kids. The UK team was like, very jarred by discussion of a vasectomy. It

06:53also happens in kind of an intimate scene. And to me, that's why I like writing, like sex scenes

06:58and intimate scenes is because they're so raw and vulnerable, because it's like you're already

07:03doing something that's like, a little bit humiliating. You're so exposed, literally and

07:09figuratively. So it felt like a really natural thing to like talk about this thing that's

07:14so personal. But the UK team was like jarred by that and thought like, I don't know if our readers

07:19are they, you know, I think they're going to be worried like Alex is sacrificing some piece of

07:25himself to make this decision for like, the security of his romantic partners. So that was

07:31really interesting. And, you know, we like I had to kind of think through that and find another way

07:39to be really true to the characters there, which is a fun challenge. Because to me, the thing about

07:43fiction is like, it's not real, but it is true. It's like, that's what makes you feel so connected

07:48to something that you weep when you're done. Even though you know, it didn't really happen.

07:52There's like this truth in it. That's just unavoidable.

07:56Yeah, one of my friends wrote a review last night for funny story and said, I'd love for Emily Henry

08:01to write a book where I don't cry. And I relate to that tremendously. We'll get into this in a

08:07second. But I want to talk about the intimacy and the romance aspect of this. I mean, I think it's

08:12so interesting, because as a romance reader myself, and as somebody who enjoys books,

08:17I feel like we're kind of seeing this surge right now of like, not being shy about reading,

08:22you know, maybe some scandalous scenes or, or talking about the intimacy in these scenes. And

08:27so what is that like for you as somebody who's also coming from a business perspective? And,

08:32you know, like you said, working with editors, trying to come up with a solution that works for

08:37the market, but the market is currently changing, it feels like in that respect.

08:41It's, yeah, I mean, it's constantly changing. And again, that's something that's reader driven. I

08:45think the reason that we're seeing so much more vocal embracing of romance is because every

08:52generation has sort of like different hang ups and traumas. And with book talk, you can really

08:57see it because especially younger readers, I'm thinking like probably Gen Z, you just see there's

09:04like a different, I don't know, I'm sure it's still very personal person to person. But overall,

09:09I feel like there's so much less shame about loving this kind of story. You don't, it's like,

09:13you're not seeing people self deprecated about it and be like, yeah, I like romance. And I know

09:17that's like uncool. And even the way that they'll talk about sex scenes, like they'll share excerpts

09:22of their favorite sex scenes, and romantic moments, and there isn't the same shame attached

09:26to it that I definitely grew up with and was well aware of, like, I didn't even pick up a romance

09:31novel until I was an adult, because I just assumed I wouldn't like it based on kind of the societal

09:37perception of the genre and its value. So again, I think so much of the change we're seeing is

09:42being driven by the readers. And I love that they embrace that kind of scene, because I really think,

09:48you know, maybe not for everyone, but for a lot of us, sex and physical intimacy is a huge part of our

09:55relationships of our romantic relationships. And the things that you say in those moments

10:00are significant. And the ways that you like bear your heart in those moments are significant. And

10:06it's just hard to write a story about people really falling in love and getting to that place

10:12of deep connection without some, you know, kind of physical version of that, at least for me,

10:17I know there are writers to do it. But for me, it's like it's kind of an integral part of their

10:22growth and transformation. Now, let's get to a funny story. This is a story about two people

10:29who have been scorned now by their exes, they end up as roommates, and maybe some fake dating

10:36incurs, you know, so it's, I mean, I had such a blast reading it. It was so fun. But I love

10:42describing your books as a hug to women in their late 20s and early 30s. There's something about

10:49it because there's so much character depth to this. So if you were to tell me who do you feel

10:55like this book is a hug to for an audience member? Oh, my gosh, I mean, I want it to be.

11:01I don't, you know, that's kind of the thing is when I write them, I don't necessarily know

11:07yet who it's really for. With Harriet in Happy Place, my last book, I thought, oh, this book

11:12is really for people pleasers. And I think it was. But I also got a lot of feedback from readers

11:16who specifically connected with Harriet's family dynamic. And I've kind of seen the same thing

11:21with Daphne, like her her thing that the thing that I really wanted readers to embrace and accept

11:29is that the way that other people treat you is not necessarily an indication of your value. Like

11:36everybody's dealing with their own shit. The things that we do are because of us, not because

11:42of other people. And with Daphne, you know, she's had this complicated relationship with her father,

11:46especially where he dotes and then withdraws and kind of withholds in a lot of ways. And

11:53it's left her with this wound of feeling like she's never going to be someone's top choice

11:59or priority. And a lot of I feel like the decisions she's been making in her life are

12:03because she wants to sort of like suture up that wound. So I think it's for people who have felt

12:09that way, who felt like they're, they're never going to be picked. I think that's a feeling that

12:14a lot of us can relate to. One of the things I love about your books is this kind of secondary

12:19relationships, other than the romantic ones, always kind of reflect what's going on. Specifically

12:25Happy Place, I've recommended to so many people who are especially late 20s, early 30s, post

12:31college, trying to figure out how to grow up with your friends, right? Not just the person you love,

12:35maybe that you met during that time, but also growing with your friends. And so where does

12:40that kind of come from? How do you find a way to bring in those other relationships into the

12:46storyline that is not just the romantic one? Yeah, well, I think they're always so tightly

12:52braided together. And, you know, with Happy Place, it was this character Harriet, who has

12:57been through a lot of life with this partner, and she's kind of wrestling with the idea that maybe

13:02they're growing apart, you know, irrevocably. And that's so indicative of where she's at in life,

13:08because she's feeling those same things with her friends and those same things with her dreams,

13:12like these dreams that she's held on to so tightly for all of her childhood and adolescence.

13:17And now feeling like that tension of is that even what I really want? It's all tied together. And

13:22with Daphne and Miles and Funny Story, it's a similar thing. Like from the beginning, I knew

13:27that this was a book about a woman who had built her whole life around a relationship that she

13:32thought was stable and steady. And so her friendships, where she lives, her furniture,

13:38like the restaurants she eats at, all of that was built around this other person.

13:42And so when you pull that person out of the picture, it's like a Jenga tower,

13:46and you've taken the most integral block. And so I knew from the very beginning,

13:49Daphne's journey was not just going to be about like getting over her ex and maybe falling in

13:53love. It was going to be about rebuilding her life and rebuilding a life that would be hers,

13:57no matter what happened, that no one person could take it from her. And so the book is largely also

14:04a friendship book, because she's like, falling in love. But also, she's making friends on her

14:11own for the first time since she was like in her mid 20s, which is so hard as an adult, by the way.

14:17Absolutely. And like that concept of reclaiming, I think, a beach read,

14:21which is extremely emotional, you know, kind of this concept of finding out that your parents

14:27and the people you looked up to aren't perfect, you know, and coming to terms with that. And the

14:31reclaiming of these characters is so important in all of your storylines. Now I want to switch

14:37because some of this is coming to the big screen, possibly soon. So in the last two years,

14:42you've had announcements that three of your books, Beach Read, People We Meet on Vacation,

14:47and Book Lovers are getting film adaptations. First of all, tell me about how you got that news

14:53and how you reacted, because I can imagine finding out that your story is going to be,

14:58you know, extended is incredible. Yeah, I mean, it, it was very surreal. I think with Beach Read,

15:08we had originally set it up with a different team before the book even came out. And so that felt

15:13like, okay, wow, this is, you know, this is really happening. This book, it felt like a sign that the

15:18book was going to be something bigger than I'd been expecting. And then that like option clause

15:24lapsed, and we went up with a new team I'm very excited about. But yeah, I mean, I feel like it's

15:29been, it's weird, because the way that it usually works, like in the past, the way that it's worked

15:34is like, maybe one producer, one studio raises their hand, and they're like, we're interested,

15:40do you want to take a meeting, you take that meeting? And you're like, yes, let's try and do

15:43it. And then it either does or doesn't happen. With this, it was interesting, because when the books

15:48really popped, there were a lot more people coming to the table. And so it was doing a lot of

15:53meetings back to back, and seeing a lot of different visions. And it was really cool

15:59to realize there were so many different ways that every single one of these adaptations can play out

16:03because at their heart, adaptations are collaborations, whereas a book is much more

16:09just like your vision from the beginning to the end. So it was definitely surreal,

16:17it was definitely very surreal, overwhelming, and like, kind of fogged over in my memory,

16:24even like, I think I don't think I could really take it in when it was happening. It was like,

16:29you know, just kind of like an out of body experience, honestly.

16:33Now, obviously, there are rumors out there about who's going to be cast

16:37and these adaptations. But what can you tell us about the adaptation process so far?

16:43I mean, I feel bad because I keep saying the same things, which is that I've read scripts,

16:48and the scripts are great. I really am like, not even sure what I'm allowed to share. I can say

16:55that they're all moving. I genuinely feel that they're all moving. Some are moving faster and

16:59with more momentum than others. I'm yeah, I'm really excited. There are things that I would

17:08theoretically be able to announce, but I don't understand the timeline of Hollywood. So who

17:14knows how, how involved are you with the scripting process? I guess I'm kind of curious, just as

17:21somebody who like created and loves this story. I mean, how much can you say yes, I want to change

17:27this or no, I don't want to change this. How much of a hand do you have?

17:31Well, it's really different from team to team. I've I've found that and that's been a really

17:36interesting thing where it's like some really kind of just want the thing they want you to just

17:40like, you know, let go and let God and then come back when it exists. Others really have invited

17:46my input. And, you know, I try really hard to not be precious about them. Because at the end of the

17:53day, obviously, I want the readers to be really happy. But I also want these movies to be movies

17:58that stand on their own. And we have other more experienced people in the rooms to make sure that

18:04that happens. So I would say like, Euline Kwong, who is the screenwriter for I mean, everybody,

18:13every at different stages, everybody has involved me. But Euline, I feel like she

18:18is such a reader at her heart. And she also just had a book come out. That's amazing. But

18:24she definitely invites my input. And, you know, it's like, you kind of it's like the editing

18:30process where you start to learn the things that you don't budge on, and the things that can,

18:35you can let go and leave room for change and growth. So, you know, it's, it's different for

18:41each, I would say, definitely after watching three kind of unfold, I am itching to be more involved

18:48and to do like my own adapting at some point down the road. Because as like exciting as it is to see

18:53other people do your do your, you know, their own version of your work, of course, there is also the

18:58feeling of like, Oh, how would I handle this? Like, what would I do? So we'll see.

19:02And so rounding out our interview, I want to ask what is kind of the next story or the next

19:08maybe setting or even, you know, characters that you're looking to do moving forward?

19:14Yeah, that's actually great, because I keep being asked about this. And I don't have answers I'm

19:19allowed to give. But setting, I can say that the next book setting is largely California,

19:30and then like a little island on the east coast, there's a little bit of

19:35setting, there's multiple settings, but that's kind of what's going on. And what else can I say

19:41about it? I mean, I feel like it's really true to what I love most about writing, which I think and

19:48hope readers will love, you know, like they've loved what I've done so far, or the ones who have

19:53have. But it also feels like a departure, which is really exciting for me to feel like I'm taking

19:59what I love most, but trying a slightly different spin on it. And there still is a romance. So

20:05that much I can confirm.

20:06Of course, we need a romance. Before I let you go. I've got some rapid fire questions for you.

20:11Are you ready?

20:12I'm ready.

20:13Awesome. You love romantic comedy movies from what I've seen. What's your favorite one?

20:18You're like go to?

20:20Probably You've Got Mail.

20:22Wonderful choice. Which of your characters do you feel like you've related to the most?

20:28Whichever one I'm writing at that moment.

20:30Truly. What's your favorite book trope for you to read?

20:35Ooh, a really good enemies to lovers.

20:38A classic, of course. Who was your favorite couple to write?

20:44Ooh, I think maybe either Poppy and Alex or Charlie and Nora. Both of those were really

20:50fun to write. They weren't like as angsty. They were just really fun.

20:53What genre do you want to try and write that you haven't yet?

20:57Ooh, well, I haven't. I mean, I haven't published in many genres I've written in a lot. I would

21:04like to someday try to write thrillers and, and sci fi again, in some capacity.

21:12Um, what type of music kind of helps inspire your writing process?

21:17Oh, my gosh, I don't listen to music while I'm writing. But I think a lot of like, the older,

21:25you know, kind of like folky rocky classics, like, and there's Neil Young references in

21:30this book. And I feel like he's kind of a go to.

21:34Yeah, all the sad music that our hero listens to and funny,

21:39funny story. And then what is a current book you're reading or a book from another author

21:44that you would recommend right now?

21:46Well, I'm currently finally reading the first book in the Southern Reach trilogy by Jeff

21:51VanderMeer, Annihilation. I just rewatched the movie, loved it. Book is totally different. So

21:55that's really fun. I'm also about to start reading a book that's not out yet. But it's called Park

22:01Avenue by Renee Adieh. And I think it's her adult debut. I'm very excited. She published YA that was

22:07lovely before this. So that will be out for a while, but put it on your radars.

22:12Awesome. Evelyn Henry, thank you so much for joining me today. I appreciate it.

22:16You so much for having me.

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