Head of News Dale Miller speaks to political editor Alistair Grant following John Swinney's announcement that he will run for leadership of the SNP
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00:02 - Hello and welcome to the Scotsman's Politics Show.
00:11 It's a big day in the world of Scottish politics.
00:15 My name's Dale Miller, I'm head of news at the Scotsman.
00:17 Now I'm joined by our political editor, Alistair Grant,
00:21 who's coming live from the grass market.
00:23 Alistair, you've just heard from John Swinney
00:26 and the leadership bid from him is on.
00:28 What do they have to say?
00:30 - Yes, well after a lot of shadow boxing
00:32 over the last couple of days, particularly yesterday,
00:35 John Swinney, the former deputy first minister,
00:37 has come out and confirmed that he will run
00:40 for the SNP leadership.
00:41 He launched his leadership campaign
00:43 just a couple of hundred yards from where I am right now
00:46 in the grass market, very much with a message
00:49 that he is the man of the hour, if you will,
00:51 that he can offer that stability for the SNP.
00:54 He's got the experience, he's obviously got decades
00:57 of frontline political experience in his back pocket.
01:00 He's been deputy first minister,
01:01 he was Nicola Sturgeon's trusted deputy,
01:04 a close ally of the former first minister.
01:06 Before that, he was a finance secretary
01:08 under both Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon.
01:10 And before that, people might remember
01:12 that he actually led the SNP between 2000 and 2004.
01:16 So he's very much pitching himself
01:18 as someone who has the experience to unify the party,
01:22 to bring the party back together again.
01:24 He was accepting today that the party
01:25 is not cohesive at the moment,
01:27 that it's not as unified as it could be.
01:29 And he is saying that he is the man to do that.
01:31 I think interestingly as well,
01:33 making it clear that he is not a caretaker figure.
01:35 He's not intending to be an interim SNP leader
01:37 or first minister.
01:38 That's what some of the reporting around his initial,
01:42 when John Swinney was initially suggested
01:44 as a kind of potential future leader.
01:47 There's a lot of talk that he could be a caretaker figure,
01:49 just kind of taking care of the party
01:50 while it sorts itself out.
01:52 He's very much saying he's in it for the long haul.
01:55 So he will lead the party
01:56 beyond the 2026 Holyrood election.
01:59 And the other very interesting point
02:01 is that he was saying that he wants Kate Forbes
02:04 to play a key role in his team.
02:06 He wants her to have,
02:07 I think as he called it, a senior position,
02:09 a senior important position in his team.
02:11 So very much wants to bring her into the fold.
02:13 We're expecting to hear from Kate Forbes later on today,
02:17 confirming whether or not she's going to run
02:18 for the SNP leadership.
02:20 She is the other favourite in this race.
02:22 If she doesn't run,
02:23 it could very much be a John Swinney coronation.
02:26 And I think just finally,
02:26 what I'd say is that it was notable in the room today,
02:29 just how many senior figures in the SNP were there
02:32 for John Swinney's leadership launch.
02:34 There's Shirley-Anne Somerville.
02:36 There's people like Angus Robertson, the Culture Secretary,
02:38 Jamie Hepburn, the Independence Minister,
02:40 Marie Gujran, Fiona Hyslop, the Transport Secretary.
02:44 He really does have the backing
02:45 of a lot of the senior figures in the SNP
02:47 and is seen as the hierarchy's choice, if you will.
02:52 - Alistair, I'm fascinated by him saying
02:54 that he wants to come into the role
02:57 of potentialist maybe on 2026.
02:59 Does that come as a surprise to you,
03:01 given his experience, his age,
03:03 the fact that he stepped back
03:04 when Nicola Sturgeon did as well?
03:06 Did that come as a shock for him?
03:08 - I think on the one hand,
03:09 it's probably a surprise to him
03:10 that he's entering the frontline free again.
03:13 He's been a backbencher now for about a year,
03:16 very much was seen as someone
03:17 whose political time had perhaps passed,
03:19 maybe someone who would potentially be looking
03:21 to step down in 2026.
03:23 That's obviously not the case anymore.
03:24 But I think it's not a surprise in the sense
03:26 that if he's coming out for the SNP leadership contest
03:29 and to be, by default,
03:31 the next First Minister of Scotland,
03:32 he has to say that he's in it for the long haul.
03:35 If he said that his intention was to make way
03:37 for someone else in 2026,
03:39 that would immediately put him on the back foot.
03:41 He would be a bit of a lame duck First Minister.
03:43 He has to go for this or not.
03:46 He can't do a kind of halfway house.
03:48 So I think on the one hand,
03:50 it's what he has to say.
03:51 I'm sure it's what his intention is.
03:53 On the other hand,
03:53 I'm sure he did not see this coming a week ago.
03:56 - And Alistair, just on Kate Forbes,
04:00 I mean, you and I were discussing off air
04:02 about what would be a good enough position
04:04 potentially for her to accept the Cabinet role and not run.
04:07 What do you think?
04:09 She's due to speak this afternoon,
04:10 so we'll know then either way,
04:11 but what do you think will be enough
04:14 and will it be a good move having her in Cabinet?
04:17 That's the way it plays out.
04:19 - I think if John Swinney is wanting to present himself
04:21 as a unity candidate,
04:22 as someone who can bring the SNP together
04:24 at a time when the party is divided,
04:26 when there are divisions that have come to the surface,
04:28 then yeah, I think it is a good move
04:29 to bring her into the Cabinet
04:30 and to bring her back into the fold.
04:32 She's been on the back benches
04:33 in Holyrood for a while now.
04:35 I think there's been a lot of voices
04:36 both within and outside the SNP
04:38 who have considered that a waste of her talents.
04:41 She's seen as someone who's got a lot of political ability,
04:44 a lot to offer.
04:45 Even her critics would say
04:47 that she's someone with a strong political intellect.
04:50 But also, she's someone who has a wing of the party
04:54 that want change, that are a bit,
04:56 well, not even a bit,
04:56 quite very much dissatisfied
04:58 with the direction the SNP has taken in recent times
05:01 and who do not want continuity.
05:03 So if John Swinney wants to bring the party back together,
05:06 I think it very much is a good move
05:07 to try and bring Kate Forbes back into the fold.
05:10 As to what position that is,
05:11 he was actually asked at the press conference today,
05:14 potentially as a Deputy First Minister
05:16 to be his deputy.
05:17 He was keeping his cards close to his chest
05:19 saying he doesn't want to get ahead of himself.
05:21 You know, he's not going to confirm anything
05:23 like that at the moment.
05:24 But I think it would have to be a senior role.
05:26 And John Swinney saying that today,
05:28 that he envisions a very important senior role for her.
05:31 So I would think something like a senior cabinet position,
05:34 perhaps Deputy First Minister.
05:36 But yeah, she would be offered something
05:38 that she could get her teeth into, put it that way.
05:40 - Well, look, what's the spice
05:43 if you want to say exactly,
05:44 or read exactly what John Swinney said
05:47 and what it means for the SNP going forward,
05:50 please visit scotsman.com for all the latest
05:52 with the live blog running.
05:54 You'll have all the very latest analysis
05:57 and coverage in the wash up of Swinney's declaration.
06:00 And you'll be able to learn first what Kate Forbes decides.
06:03 Please follow us on Facebook, Instagram and X
06:07 and go out and buy a copy of the paper tomorrow.
06:09 We'll have full coverage from another big day
06:12 in Scottish politics.
06:14 Alistair, thanks for you
06:15 and thanks to everyone else for joining us.
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