What do London's black cab drivers think about the mayoral election?
What do London's black cab drivers think about the mayoral election?
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00:00 You know, Sydney is there for the taking, man.
00:01 If she's got the right team, with the right policy,
00:04 with the right campaign, she may have a chance.
00:06 I used to work late evenings, but over the last maybe five
00:09 or six years, I haven't done that now,
00:11 because I actually don't feel any safer, as a woman especially.
00:14 Get undercover police out there, we know what they look like.
00:16 I know what they look like.
00:17 I'm no Poirot, but I think there should be more police
00:20 presence on the street.
00:23 They know London like the back of their hand
00:26 and have been scientifically proven
00:28 to have bigger brains than the rest of us.
00:30 So who better to ask about the mayoral race
00:33 than London's cabbies?
00:35 We've invited three black taxi drivers to the Evening Standard
00:39 to find out what they think about the battle for City Hall
00:42 and who they think deserves to be our next mayor.
00:46 So we've got three taxi drivers with you here.
00:49 We'll just ask first their names and also
00:51 who's the most famous person, if any,
00:53 you've had in the black of your cab.
00:55 My name is Howard, probably Dustin Hoffman or Charlton Heston.
00:59 Oh, good start.
01:01 Hi, I'm Suzanne, and I've had four of the five Spice Girls.
01:05 Oh, who have you missed?
01:07 Posh.
01:09 Hi there, I'm Mr. Muhammad.
01:11 I had a few footballers in my cab.
01:14 One of them was Franco Lombard and Peter Crouch.
01:16 Oh, very good.
01:17 Well, we've done well as a start.
01:19 Now, let's talk first about London's own,
01:21 if you like, political celebrity, Sadiq Khan.
01:23 How is he doing?
01:24 He's been mayor for eight years.
01:26 How would you say he's performed?
01:29 I have voted for Sadiq Khan for the last two terms,
01:33 thinking that he was the right guy for the job.
01:36 But since then, as a cab driver, I am very--
01:41 you know, very sort of--
01:44 what is the word I'm looking for?
01:46 I'm very disappointed with him.
01:48 And I don't think this time around he
01:49 will get my vote in my view, simply
01:52 because of the pressure that he put on us as a cab driver,
01:57 the lack of access of the roads, the 20-mile speed,
01:59 the cycle lines everywhere, and the expansion on Ulysse
02:04 and all that, even though we are exempt on that.
02:07 So I do believe that it's time for change.
02:10 And change is always good in my view.
02:11 According to the polls, Sadiq Khan's biggest challenger
02:22 is Susan Hall, the Tory mayoral candidate.
02:25 What do you know about Susan?
02:28 Listen to some of her manifesto, listen to her speak.
02:31 She's let herself down on a couple of occasions
02:33 by not being as well-informed as someone
02:35 should be in her position.
02:37 But we all make mistakes.
02:39 And as the guy said, both of them
02:41 said change is as good as arrest.
02:43 Let's get somebody else in with fresh ideas
02:46 that maybe has got a better take on London than Sadiq's had.
02:49 Susan is the Conservative candidate.
02:51 There is the issue that the Tories nationally
02:54 are unpopular.
02:55 Would that put you off voting for a Tory mayor of London?
02:58 No, because I think as a--
03:00 we have to think differently.
03:02 It's about London, not about the whole country.
03:04 And I just don't feel there's anyone strong enough to take
03:08 over what Sadiq has left.
03:12 I just hope that she is the person to help the trade.
03:17 And from what I've listened to what she said,
03:19 she does seem to want to do that.
03:21 And Sadiq Khan is there for the taking.
03:23 And if she's got the right team, with the right policy,
03:25 with the right campaign, she may have a chance.
03:27 [MUSIC PLAYING]
03:30 Now, let's talk first about the black cab trade.
03:35 It's been a tough time since the pandemic for cabbies.
03:39 TFL figures show that the number of licensed black cab drivers
03:44 has gone down to about 17,500.
03:46 That's about 21% down.
03:48 And what's it like out on the roads?
03:50 What's it like working as a cabbie in 2024?
03:55 It's not easy.
03:56 It's usually the traffic that causes us most of the problems.
04:00 But the 20 mile an hour is extremely
04:02 difficult to work around.
04:04 It's fine on some of the smaller roads.
04:06 But on the main roads, it's impossible to get anywhere fast.
04:10 For a young person looking to become a cab driver,
04:13 like we did when we were younger,
04:15 they look at it and think, these are your expenses
04:17 to rent a cab or buy a cab are very, very high.
04:21 The earnings pro rata have gone down.
04:24 It doesn't look such an attractive proposition
04:26 as it did do.
04:27 Would you say the St. Mohammed is being a cabbie is still
04:30 a good job?
04:32 It is a good job, but it's a very difficult nowadays.
04:34 Like my colleagues say, it's obviously the lack of access,
04:38 the driving, the conjecture charge, the 20 mile per hour.
04:41 It is really making things difficult nowadays
04:44 to drive around and to get where you want from A to B.
04:47 And it's all down to this LTN, 20 mile per hour.
04:50 Let's talk about some of the issues
04:58 that affect taxi drivers.
05:00 Not all of these are the direct responsibility of the mayor,
05:03 but the mayor has had some involvement.
05:06 So first off, LTNs, low traffic neighborhoods.
05:09 Are you a fan, Mohammed?
05:11 No, not at all.
05:12 Why not?
05:13 Well, it is obvious because it will make our job
05:16 very difficult to get to where we want to do.
05:19 So I'm not a big fan of it.
05:20 And I will like the other boroughs to follow the likes
05:23 of Hammersmith and Fulham who are allowing the taxis.
05:26 I'm not too sure about the private hire either,
05:28 but we can go through with that.
05:29 Suzanne?
05:31 Well, no, I'm not a fan of them at all.
05:32 It's the same thing as what Mohammed said.
05:35 Islington's a really bad borough for LTNs.
05:38 But during the pandemic, I worked for Waitrose
05:40 as a delivery driver because there wasn't any work
05:42 for cabbies.
05:43 And when I spoke to the residents,
05:45 they weren't a fan of the LTNs because we couldn't
05:47 get the shopping to them.
05:48 Same with the cab.
05:49 We can't get elderly people, disabled people.
05:53 Even at night, I don't really work nights anymore,
05:55 but I have done in the past.
05:57 And you've got a young girl who's drunk and what she just
06:00 can't find her way home.
06:01 And it's my job to make sure she gets home safely
06:04 to her front door.
06:05 We can't do that with LTNs.
06:06 We've got to leave her at the end of the street.
06:08 And that's not right either.
06:09 Disregard the taxi drivers.
06:11 If you live in London, you have to expect traffic.
06:14 You have to expect vehicles.
06:16 You're not living in a utopian village with no vehicles.
06:20 So to have your food delivered, to have your furniture
06:22 delivered, to be able to get home with shopping
06:24 or get home with a baby in a buggy or when you've had a drink.
06:28 The point of getting in a taxi is you get door-to-door service.
06:31 We can't offer that door-to-door service under LTNs.
06:35 And it's a terrible word to use, but it's not fair
06:40 on those people.
06:41 They've been lumbered.
06:43 They lived in those houses before they became LTNs.
06:45 And now they're stuck in it.
06:46 Now, what we do know as well is that the likes of Islington
06:57 and Hackney are some of the boroughs
07:00 with most cycle lanes.
07:01 Now, we mentioned the park lane, cycle lane.
07:04 We know it's not popular with motorists.
07:07 Are cycle lanes-- how would you regard them?
07:10 An inconvenience?
07:11 Do you feel that they have a place?
07:13 Or do they just essentially stop vehicles getting around?
07:16 They have a place because we're trying to be greener.
07:19 We're trying to get people exercising more.
07:21 They have a place.
07:23 But to put them in place of other modes of transport
07:27 and having that big an impact--
07:29 talk about the park lane cycle lane, for example,
07:32 which is the most obvious glaring double take.
07:37 You're right next to Hyde Park, which has a cycle lane in it,
07:40 going northbound on Park Lane.
07:42 There is a cycle lane inside Hyde Park,
07:44 just the other side of the railings.
07:46 In their infinite wisdom, the authorities, whoever they were,
07:49 and whoever was the mandarin who decided it,
07:52 went, I will put one in Park Lane as well.
07:54 So it used to be four lanes going north.
07:57 Now, we've got a very rarely used cycle lane, a bus lane,
08:01 which I agree with.
08:02 And then you've now got--
08:05 the traffic is constant from 6 AM to 8 or 9 PM.
08:09 Hyde Park, when trying to get up Park Lane,
08:11 it's all marble arch.
08:13 It's at a standstill.
08:14 So there was no thought of other vehicles.
08:16 But a lot of them are great ideas.
08:18 And through back streets, and they've
08:21 worked out that rather than go on a parallel main road,
08:25 you can use back streets to cut through.
08:26 And I know plenty of people who use their bikes,
08:28 and they love the cycle lanes.
08:30 But it has to be a little bit more thought
08:32 for other road users.
08:33 So we've heard CFL.
08:34 The reason that they brought in the Park Lane cycle lane
08:37 is that Hyde Park closes in the evening,
08:39 so you can't use the cycle lane then.
08:41 And also, there are a number of pedestrians
08:43 walking in the park who would then come
08:44 into conflict with cyclists.
08:46 But it sounds like, from what you're all saying,
08:48 that if the Park Lane cycle lane was taken out, which
08:51 is what Susan Hall proposes, that
08:53 would make things easier for you to use one of London's
08:56 main inner city roads.
08:58 Is that right?
08:59 Definitely.
08:59 I mean, if you were to sit on Park Lane,
09:02 even in the evening when the park closes,
09:04 you don't see many cyclists going up and down Park Lane.
09:07 So probably 5% of it is used, where the rest of the time
09:11 we're all sat in traffic waiting to get from literally one
09:14 end to the other, and it taking double the time.
09:17 Cycle lanes, my take on it, especially the embankment,
09:22 more than anything else, why wouldn't they have not thought?
09:26 I'm only a stupid cab driver.
09:28 I've had an inflatable cycle lanes, pop-up cycle lanes.
09:31 So in the morning, everyone's going
09:33 to work in the city, the ones that are not working from home.
09:37 So the bollards rise.
09:39 It's fenced off from the rest of the road going east.
09:41 Cycles go and you're in a safe zone.
09:44 10 o'clock, 10.30, lower them.
09:46 The road's open to everybody.
09:48 And in the afternoon rush hour, inverted commas,
09:52 the inflatable goes up on the westbound carriageway,
09:55 the sections off the safe section.
09:56 And then once the rush hour's gone,
09:58 drop the inflatable bit down, and it's an open road again.
10:02 Interesting idea.
10:02 Very good point.
10:03 It's not--
10:04 Go for Mayor.
10:04 It's not beyond the realms--
10:05 Go for Mayor.
10:06 Yeah.
10:06 Yeah.
10:07 She's drawn the Canada flag.
10:10 It's not beyond the realms of possibility.
10:12 It would be very easy to do.
10:14 Something must be working, though, for cyclists,
10:17 because the number of people cycling or riding a bike
10:19 in London has gone way up.
10:21 It's about 1.2 million a day.
10:23 So it's about a third of the number getting the tube
10:25 or actually on two wheels.
10:27 So London must be getting better for cyclists.
10:30 You say not getting on tubes and not getting on buses, which,
10:34 like I said before, the businessman that
10:37 wants to get in the taxi to do his daily work,
10:40 private phone calls on the laptop,
10:42 he can't do that on a bike.
10:44 He can't do it on a busy tube.
10:45 He can't do it on a busy bus.
10:48 So there's still plenty of other people other than cyclists.
10:51 I'm great.
10:51 I'm really pleased it's improved.
10:53 And I like cycling myself.
10:55 It's important for it to be safe.
10:57 But what I feel Sadiq has done is completely
11:00 forgot about everyone else.
11:01 And especially as we're a working city
11:04 and we do need the black cab to get those people to and from
11:08 work and save time by carrying on with their conference
11:11 calls and everything else, he hasn't even thought about that.
11:14 We're a working London.
11:15 Let's talk about one of Sadiq's other big policies.
11:24 He's probably best known for the ULEZ that
11:26 expanded London-wide last August.
11:29 So the whole city is now under the ULEZ.
11:32 Black cabs aren't necessarily caught by the ULEZ,
11:34 are they?
11:34 Because you've got your own emission rules.
11:37 But what impact has the ULEZ made, if anything,
11:39 would you say, to levels of traffic on the road
11:42 in terms of congestion?
11:44 It's a very good question.
11:45 I mean, yesterday I was in Hillingdon
11:47 and I actually saw people tearing down
11:49 one of the ULEZ expansion ballards.
11:52 They actually fell off.
11:53 Yes.
11:54 It was actually on the Twitter.
11:55 Was it one of the cameras or was it--
11:56 One of the cameras, yes.
11:58 Gosh.
11:59 And I saw a lot of the vans around Heathrow Airport,
12:01 I don't know, monitoring the movement of the traffic
12:03 and all that.
12:04 Look, the ULEZ expansion, yes, we are exempting to it.
12:06 But people are fed up with it.
12:08 They don't like it.
12:08 They don't want it.
12:09 And the problem with Sadiq Khan is that is what he wants.
12:13 His policy of two wheels is better than four wheels,
12:17 that's all his idea.
12:19 And with another four years with that,
12:21 we might as well all stop driving and just walk around
12:24 and get the bicycles.
12:25 Do you think the ULEZ expansion could
12:27 lose Sadiq this election?
12:28 I believe so.
12:29 I believe so.
12:31 Because we know, you mentioned that you saw a camera being
12:33 pulled down.
12:33 We know there's been more than 1,000 cases of vandalism
12:36 of ULEZ cameras.
12:38 The police won't tell us exactly how many.
12:40 And TFL don't want to see how much they've spent
12:42 putting them back up again.
12:44 But you sense that this has turned Londoners against Sadiq.
12:48 Absolutely.
12:49 Absolutely.
12:49 I've seen that with my own eyes yesterday
12:51 while I was driving around in Hillingdon.
12:52 And the police, they're not doing--
12:54 they can't do nothing about it.
12:55 The people are fed up with this.
12:57 They don't want this expansion of police.
13:00 And that's across the boroughs of London.
13:03 The vandalism of all these things, it's continuous.
13:05 [MUSIC PLAYING]
13:08 [INAUDIBLE]
13:11 And the last thing we want to ask about
13:13 is crime, which is another massive issue in London.
13:16 As part of your job, you will see every day
13:19 the reality of crime on the streets,
13:21 either through your windscreen or picking up
13:24 possible victims of crime.
13:26 Do you think London has got less safe under Sadiq Khan?
13:32 I'm not sure if you could hang that on him.
13:35 I don't think London is as safe as it was.
13:40 I wouldn't necessarily say you could throw--
13:43 you know, land that at his door.
13:45 But gradually, London has become less--
13:48 I think, in a lot of respects, is less safe, less police
13:52 presence on the street.
13:53 And I see it.
13:55 I saw it twice last week.
13:57 Same two guys on electric bikes with balaclavas,
14:00 dressed fully in black, riding around,
14:02 circling around people.
14:03 I saw them snatch the phone off a guy in Marylebone
14:06 and ride off.
14:08 And there's no way he was going to catch them.
14:10 And I'm just a cab driver who drives the streets every day.
14:14 And I can see it.
14:15 So surely, if you're looking on the ground,
14:19 get undercover police out there.
14:20 We know what they look.
14:21 I know what they look like.
14:22 And other cab drivers know what they look like.
14:24 I'm pretty sure--
14:25 You're not a detective.
14:26 I'm not a detective, no.
14:27 I'm no Poirot.
14:29 So I think there should be more of a police
14:32 presence on the street.
14:32 Whoever's prepared to put that out there,
14:35 I think a lot of Londoners would vote for them,
14:37 because we need better policing.
14:39 Mohamed, do you think London's get more dangerous?
14:43 It depends how you look at it.
14:44 I think, in terms of the knife crime, yes,
14:46 I would say that has gone up under the Sadiq Khan.
14:48 But even the previous mayor, who was Boris Johnson,
14:54 the London crime has gone up.
14:56 But I think under the Khan, for the last eight years,
14:58 London, especially, the knife crime has gone up.
15:01 And like you said, I think it is a lack of presence of police
15:04 around the streets.
15:05 I'm one of those ones who are a big fan
15:08 for the parallel local police.
15:10 Every borough should have a local police going around
15:13 the town and seeing what's happening.
15:14 So yes, I do believe the knife crime, especially
15:18 the knife crime, has gone up under Sadiq Khan.
15:20 Suzanne, do you feel safe driving a cab?
15:24 Well, I used to work late evenings.
15:26 But over the last maybe five or six years,
15:29 I haven't done that now, because I actually don't feel any safer,
15:31 as a woman, especially.
15:33 I've always felt safe in the cab,
15:35 because we've got the petition.
15:36 I always lock my doors.
15:37 But what I see at night, it's definitely got worse.
15:40 And in the day, unfortunately, in plain sight,
15:43 bright daylight, you can see lots more going on.
15:46 So it's definitely, definitely got worse.
15:48 Well, there you have it.
15:50 Some of the key issues sort of debated here
15:52 by three taxi drivers.
15:54 The Mayru election is on May the 2nd.
15:57 Other candidates, apart from Sadiq Khan and Susan Hall,
15:59 are available.
16:00 A total of 13 are standing.
16:02 But it sounds like, from what we've heard today,
16:04 that Sadiq Khan faces something of a fight in his hands
16:07 to win a historic third term.
16:11 [BLANK_AUDIO]