Amanpour & Co. - March 21, 2024
The Director General of the International Atomic Energy Agency discusses ongoing safety issues at the Russian-occupied Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant in Ukraine. Rafael Grossi met with Putin earlier this month and is now in Brussels, where leaders gathered for the first-ever nuclear energy summit, and stressed the importance of the summit in the face of “undeniable tensions” around the globe.
WARNING: Some pictures/scenes may contain graphic content. Viewer discretion is advised.
WARNING: Some pictures/scenes may contain graphic content. Viewer discretion is advised.
Transcript
00:04>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME
00:05TO "AMANPOUR & COMPANY."
00:07HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.
00:08>> WE ARE CONFIDENT WE WILL GET
00:10THIS DONE.
00:10WE WILL GET THIS AID TO UKRAINE.
00:12>> TIME IS TICKING IN UKRAINE'S
00:16DESPERATE FIGHT FOR SURVIVAL.
00:19LITHUANIA'S FOREIGN MINISTER
00:21GABRIELIUS LANDSBERGIS JOINS ME
00:21FROM THE UNITED STATES WITH AN
00:23URGENT PLEA FOR AMERICA TO DO
00:25MORE.
00:26>>> THEN, THE ENDLESS SUFFERING
00:29IN GAZA, AND STILL NO MORE
00:31ISRAELI HOSTAGES RELEASED.
00:35THE DEADLY RAID ON AL-SHIFA
00:37HOSPITAL GOES ON ANOTHER DAY.
00:39WE BRING YOU A NEW REPORT.
00:41>>> THE CONFLICT, THE LOGIC OF
00:43IT COULD VERY EASILY LEAD US TO
00:44TOTAL DESTRUCTION.
00:45>> GOING NUCLEAR.
00:47RAFAEL GROSSI, DIRECTOR GENERAL
00:49OF THE INTERNATIONAL ATOMIC
00:52ENERGY AGENCY TELLS WALTER
00:54ISAACSON HOW HE IS TRYING TO
00:55KEEP THE WORLD SAFE FROM
00:56CATASTROPHE.
00:57>>> PLUS --
00:58>> IF WE COULD JUST OPEN UP,
01:01WHAT WOULD THAT LOOK LIKE?
01:02WHAT COLORS AND IMAGINATIONS
01:03WOULD WE CREATE?
01:04>> RYAN CALAIS CAMERON EXPLORES
01:06RACE AND MASCULINITY IN THE PLAY
01:06TAKING LONDON BY STORM.
01:17♪♪
01:26>>> "AMANPOUR & COMPANY" IS MADE
01:27POSSIBLE BY --
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01:30JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS
01:32CANDACE KING WEIR
01:35THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA
01:36AND MICKEY STRAUS
01:38MARK J. BLECHNER
01:40THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO
01:42FOUNDATION
01:44SETON J. MELVIN
01:46CHARLES ROSENBLUM
01:48KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED
01:50TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES
01:51IN OUR COMMUNITIES
01:54BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG
01:56ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY
01:58THESE FUNDERS AND BY
02:01CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS
02:02STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
02:04THANK YOU.
02:08>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM,
02:11EVERYONE.
02:11I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN
02:12LONDON.
02:13SUPPORTED BY A DETERMINED SET OF
02:15POWERFUL ALLIES FOR TWO FULL
02:17YEARS, THE STORY OF UKRAINE'S
02:19DESPERATE STRUGGLE FOR SURVIVAL
02:21NOW AS IT ENTERS ITS THIRD YEAR
02:23OF WAR IMPOSED BY RUSSIA IS A
02:26TALE OF FECKLESS POLITICS, LED
02:28MOSTLY BY THE TRUMP WING OF THE
02:30REPUBLICAN PARTY INSIDE THE U.S.
02:32CONGRESS.
02:33LISTEN TO NATIONAL SECURITY
02:34ADVISER JAKE SULLIVAN IN KYIV
02:35THIS WEEK ON THE PROSPECTS OF
02:37U.S. MILITARY AID RESUMING.
02:41>> THE TIMING HAS ALREADY TAKEN
02:43TOO LONG, AND I KNOW THAT, AND
02:45YOU KNOW THAT.
02:46I'M NOT GOING MAKE PREDICTIONS
02:48ABOUT EXACTLY WHEN THIS WILL GET
02:49DONE, BUT WE ARE WORKING TO GET
02:51IT DONE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, AND
02:52PRESIDENT BIDEN IS WORKING THIS
02:53ON A DAILY BASIS TO TRY TO
02:54DELIVER THIS PACKAGE TO THE
02:56HOUSE.
02:57BUT I CANNOT MAKE A SPECIFIC
03:01TRADITION TODAY.
03:02>> A LOT OF BUTS THERE.
03:04BUT TODAY SHORTLY AFTER SULLIVAN
03:06LEFT, KYIV CAME UNDER HEAVY
03:07MISSILE ATTACK FOR THE FIRST
03:09TIME IN SIX WEEKS, WHICH, AGAIN,
03:12HIGHLIGHTS THE DWINDLING
03:14SUPPLIES OF ITS ANTI-MISSILE
03:15DEFENSES.
03:15AND IT WILL GET A LOT WORSE IF
03:17FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP GETS BACK
03:19INTO THE OVAL OFFICE.
03:21THE HUNGARIAN PRIME MINISTER
03:22QUOTED HIM AS SAYING HE WOULD
03:25NOT GIVE ANOTHER PENNY TO
03:26UKRAINE.
03:26SO WHAT ABOUT UKRAINE'S
03:29NEIGHBORS NOW.
03:30THE BALTIC STATE OF LITHUANIA
03:32HOSTS SOME OF THE ANTI-PUTIN
03:33RUSSIAN OPPOSITION, LIKE ALEXEI
03:34NAVALNY'S FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF,
03:36WHO WAS RECENTLY ATTACKED BY
03:38THUGS IN THE CAPITAL VILNIUS, A
03:41CHILLING SIGN OF PUTIN'S IDEAS
03:43BEYOND UKRAINE.
03:45GABRIELIUS LANDSBERGIS IS
03:46LITHUANIA'S FOREIGN MINISTER,
03:47AND ONE OF UKRAINE'S FIERCEST
03:50ALLIES.
03:50HE IS CURRENTLY IN THE UNITED
03:51STATES TO DRUM UP URGENT
03:53SUPPORT.
03:53FOREIGN MINISTER, WELCOME BACK
03:54TO OUR PROGRAM.
03:57SO YOU HAVE REPEATEDLY CHASTISED
04:00WESTERN ALLIES FOR ESSENTIALLY
04:01DOING TOO LITTLE TOO LATE FOR
04:02KYIV.
04:03ARE YOU GETTING YOUR MESSAGE
04:05THROUGH NOW TO YOUR
04:06INTERLOCUTORS IN THE UNITED
04:08STATES?
04:11>> WELL, THIS IS NOT THE FIRST
04:13TIME THAT I'M IN WASHINGTON,
04:15ACTUALLY, WITH THE RATHER SAME
04:19MESSAGE.
04:20THE STORY THAT WE ARE TELLING IS
04:21THE STORY OF HEROISM THAT
04:23EVERYBODY CAN SEE IN UKRAINE.
04:26BUT ALSO A POSSIBLE STORY OF
04:31WESTERN FAILURE, OF OUR
04:34INABILITY TO HELP UKRAINE ENOUGH
04:35SO THAT IT CAN WIN THIS WAR.
04:38AND THIS IS A VERY HORRIBLE
04:40STORY, AND IT'S A HORRIBLE STORY
04:42NOT JUST TO UKRAINE.
04:46IT'S A VERY SAD STORY ALSO TO
04:47THE NEIGHBORS.
04:48IT'S ALSO A VERY SAD AND
04:49HORRIBLE STORY TO LITHUANIA,
04:52WHERE WE'VE SEEN RUSSIA
04:54ENCROACHING, WHERE WE'VE SEEN
04:54RUSSIA WINNING WARS IN THE PAST,
04:56AND WHERE WE'VE SEEN COUNTRIES
04:57LOSING THEIR INDEPENDENCE TO
04:58RUSSIA.
04:59AND I THINK THAT THIS STORY
04:59NEEDS TO BE REMINDED AS TO WHAT
05:04WILL HAPPEN IF UKRAINE IS UNABLE
05:06TO SUSTAIN THE WAR EFFORT.
05:07>> AND WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF PUTIN
05:09WINS IS THE OTHER SIDE OF THE
05:10COIN THAT YOU'RE SAYING.
05:13YOU KNOW, FOREIGN MINISTER, THAT
05:15SOME OF THE ALLIES IN NATO SAY
05:17OH, THE BALTICS ARE SCREAMING
05:18ABOUT THE SKY IS FALLING, THE
05:20SKY IS FALLING, AND WE DON'T SEE
05:22NECESSARILY WAR IMMINENT NOW.
05:24IN FACT, IN FACT, LET ME JUST
05:26READ YOU WHAT'S GOING ON AT THE
05:27CURRENT SUMMIT.
05:29YOU'VE GOT JOSEPH BOREL, HIGH
05:30REPRESENTATIVE OF THE EU FOR
05:31FOREIGN AFFAIRS TODAY SAYING
05:33"THE CALLS FOR EUROPEAN LEADERS
05:35TO BE AWARE OF THE CHALLENGES
05:37THEY ARE FACING ARE GOOD, BUT WE
05:38DON'T HAVE TO EXAGGERATE EITHER.
05:40WAR IS NOT IMMINENT," WHILE JUST
05:43DAYS AGO CHARLES MICHEL OF THE
05:45EUROPEAN COUNCIL SAYS WE'RE
05:46FACING THE BIGGEST SECURITY
05:47THREAT SINCE THE SECOND WORLD
05:49WAR.
05:49IT'S HIGH TIME WE TAKE RADICAL
05:51AND CONCRETE STEPS TO DEFENSE
05:54READY AND PUT THE EU'S ECONOMY
05:56ON A WAR FOOTING.
05:57SO THESE ARE TWO VERY
05:59CONFLICTING AND CONTRASTING
05:59VIEWS OF THE RUSSIAN THREAT.
06:04HOW DO YOU GET PEOPLE TO
06:05CONCENTRATE IF IT'S LIKE THIS
06:06NOW?
06:08>> YEAH, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT
06:10DEBATE, HONESTLY.
06:11AND WE'VE BEEN IN THAT DEBATE
06:13FOR AS LONG AS I CAN REMEMBER.
06:14SPECIFICALLY, SINCE 2014.
06:18WHERE AFTER THE MINSK 1 AND
06:21MINSK II AGREEMENTS HAVE BEEN
06:22SIGNED AND A CEASEFIRE WAS
06:25ACHIEVED, WE'VE BEEN TELLING TO
06:26EVERYBODY THAT WAS WILLING TO
06:27LISTEN THAT RUSSIA IS NOT GOING
06:31TO STOP.
06:33WE HAVE NOT SEEN THE LAST OF
06:34THEM.
06:35AND THE STORY WAS THE SAME.
06:36WE WERE TOLD, LOOK, YOU HAVE TO
06:37COME DOWN.
06:38YOU HAVE YOUR HISTORY BEHIND
06:39YOU.
06:39WE CAN ARGUE WITH THE RUSSIANS,
06:40AND WE HAVE THIS AGREEMENT IN
06:44PLACE.
06:45WHEN THE WAR BROKE OUT IN 2022,
06:46THERE WERE PEOPLE COMING OUT AND
06:47SAYING LOOK, THE BALTICS ARE
06:49RIGHT.
06:50AND NOW YOU WILL HEAR THE
06:51BALTICS SAY EXACTLY THE SAME
06:52THING.
06:53PUTIN IS NOT ABOUT TO STOP.
06:56TODAY WE'RE HEARING A MESSAGE
06:57FROM MUTE PUTIN'S OFFICIAL WHO
06:58SAY THEY ARE GOING TO RECREATE
07:00THEIR ARMY, BASICALLY, POSSIBLY
07:02MOBILIZING ADDITIONALLY UP TO
07:05500,000 TROOPS ADDITIONAL TO
07:06WHAT THEY CURRENTLY HAVE.
07:08THEY ALREADY HAVE ONE-THIRD MORE
07:09THAN THEY HAD BEFORE THE START
07:10OF THE WAR IN 2022.
07:12NOW THEY'RE PLANNING
07:14ADDITIONALLY TO MOBILIZE.
07:14WHAT WOULD THEY NEED IT FOR?
07:16I MEAN, THE QUESTION IS REAL.
07:18IT'S ACTUAL, AND WE HAVE TO GET
07:24RIGHT NOW IS NOT COMING DOWN.
07:26WE NEED MOBILIZATION.
07:27I'M NOT SPEAKING ABOUT
07:28MOBILIZATION OF TROOPS, BUT
07:30POLITICAL MOBILIZATION TO SEND A
07:32VERY CLEAR SIGNAL TO PUTIN THAT
07:34WE'RE ABLE, CAPABLE AND GETTING
07:35READY.
07:35>> SO I WANT TO KNOW FROM YOUR
07:37PERSPECTIVE, BECAUSE YOU DO HAVE
07:39A MUCH DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE
07:42BEING BANG-UP AGAINST RUSSIA
07:44SHARING A 160-MILE OR KILOMETER
07:47BORDER, WHATEVER IT'S LONG.
07:47IT'S A LOT CLOSER TO RUSSIA THAN
07:49THE UNITED STATES IS.
07:50AS YOU KNOW, THE -- SORRY, THE
07:55BIDEN ADMINISTRATION ESSENTIALLY
07:58TELEGRAPHED THAT IT DOESN'T WANT
07:59TO START, QUOTE, WORLD WAR III
08:01WITH RUSSIA.
08:02AND YOU'VE HEARD PEOPLE COMPLAIN
08:06THAT THAT IS SLOW WALKING OF THE
08:09DELIVERY OF AID EVEN IN THE LAST
08:11TWO YEARS, OF MILITARY AID, JUST
08:12ENOUGH TO LET UKRAINE SURVIVE,
08:14NOT ENOUGH TO LET IT WIN OR
08:16SUCKER PUNCH RUSSIA BACK.
08:18IT IS ABOUT POLITICS, RIGHT?
08:19I MEAN, IT'S ABOUT POLITICS.
08:25>> IT'S ALWAYS ABOUT POLITICS.
08:26YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING.
08:27AND I THINK THAT WHAT PUTIN
08:28MIGHT BE COUNTING ON IS A LACK
08:30OF POLITICAL DECISIONS.
08:34HE KNOWS HE HAS NO CHANCE
08:36WINNING AGAINST THE COMBINED
08:37MIGHT OF NATO.
08:38I THINK HE CLEARLY KNOWS THAT.
08:40BUT HE MIGHT BE BETTING ON THAT
08:42WE'RE JUST TOO SLOW WITH
08:43POLITICAL DECISIONS.
08:44HE BETS ON POLITICS.
08:45AND THAT IS A PROBLEM.
08:46AND WHEN IT COMES TO AVOIDING
08:49WORLD WAR III, DEFINITELY NOBODY
08:51WANTS WAR.
08:51I HAVE NOT YET SEEN A PERSON IN
08:55WESTERN WORLD WHEREVER I TRAVEL
08:57WHO SAY LOOK, THE WAR WOULD BE A
08:58GOOD THING.
08:59THAT'S A COMPLETE NONSENSE.
09:01BUT AS THE SAYING GOES, YOU
09:03MIGHT NOT BE INTERESTED IN WAR,
09:04BUT THE WAR MIGHT BE INTERESTED
09:06IN YOU.
09:07AND THE WHOLE DE-ESCALATETORY
09:13POLITICS WE HAVE MIGHT BE READ
09:15AS WEAKNESS BY PUTIN.
09:16WE'RE NOT READY.
09:17WE CANNOT MAKE AN AGREEMENT.
09:18WE'RE JUST STUCK IN A DITCH
09:21SOMEWHERE IN POLITICALLY IN
09:22BRUSSELS OR WASHINGTON,
09:24SOMEWHERE ELSE.
09:24WE CANNOT MAKE UP OUR MINDS HOW
09:26TO DEFEND UKRAINE.
09:27AND I'M QUITE SURE THAT FOR
09:29PUTIN, IT READS AS AN INVITATION
09:31TO GO FURTHER.
09:32THIS IS WHAT HE IS BETTING ON,
09:33THAT WE WOULD BE INDECISIVE.
09:36>> FOREIGN MINISTER --
09:37>> AND HONESTLY, I WOULD ADD TO
09:38THIS.
09:40>> GO.
09:40>> I WOULD ADD TO THIS JUST ONE
09:42POINT.
09:42IT'S NOT JUST PUTIN WHO IS WOULD
09:43BE THINKING LIKE THAT.
09:46ANY OTHER DICTATOR IN THE WORLD
09:47WHO HAS A TERRITORIAL AMBITION
09:50FOR A LAND GRAB OR A SEIZING AN
09:54ISLAND HERE OR THERE, THEY WOULD
09:56EXACTLY THINK THE SAME THING.
09:57THEY ARE LOOKING AT THE LESSONS
09:58THAT THEY CAN TAKE FROM US NOW.
10:00>> IT HAS BEEN SAID TO ME MANY
10:04TIMES THAT UKRAINE COULD WIN
10:06EASILY BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN
10:08REALLY DOING WELL WITH THE
10:09AMOUNT OF WEAPONS THAT IT HAS
10:13BEEN GIVEN.
10:16IT WILL WIN OR LOSE BASED ON THE
10:18POLITICAL DECISIONS MOSTLY IN
10:19THE UNITED STATES.
10:19SO YOU WILL NOT JUST I PRESUME
10:21BE TALKING TO THE CONVERTED,
10:23RIGHT?
10:23TO THE SECRETARY OF STATE, ET
10:24CETERA.
10:25WILL YOU BE TALKING TO
10:27REPUBLICANS IN CONGRESS?
10:30>> WELL, I WILL BE TALKING TO
10:32ANYBODY WHO WILL BE WILLING TO
10:34LISTEN.
10:35THAT MEANS BOTH SIDES OF THE
10:37AISLE.
10:39TELLING THE STORY THAT WE
10:40STARTED WITH, TELLING THE STORY
10:41OF LITHUANIA'S INDEPENDENCE.
10:43HOW DID IT HAPPEN THAT WE'RE
10:46INDEPENDENT?
10:46HOW DID IT HAPPEN THAT FOR 30
10:48MORE YEARS WE'VE BEEN SAFE AND
10:51SECURE UNDER ARTICLE 5, AND WHAT
10:52IT MEANS FOR UKRAINE TO BE
10:54OUTSIDE OF THAT SECURITY AREA,
10:55AND WHAT IT MEANS TO FEEL PUTIN
10:57ENCROACHING, AND WHAT IT MEANS
10:59TO FEEL THE WHOLE -- POSSIBLY
11:02THE WHOLE WORLD SECURITY ORDER
11:05UNRAVELING BEFORE OUR EYES.
11:09THIS IS REALLY A STORY THAT I
11:10THINK THE COUNTRY JUST FROM THE
11:11FRONT LINE, THAT THEY CAN TELL
11:13THIS STORY.
11:14AND UKRAINIANS ARE TELLING THE
11:16STORY VERY VIVIDLY WITH THEIR --
11:18EVERY DAY BY FIGHTING.
11:19BUT THEY'RE JUST TOO BUSY
11:21DEFENDING THEIR LIVES AND TOO
11:23BUSY DEFENDING THEIR COUNTRY TO
11:24BE HERE TO TELL THE STORY EVERY
11:25DAY.
11:26SO THIS IS WHERE TRY TO HELP
11:29THEM AND HELP US AS WELL.
11:31>> SO YOU IN THE BALTICS ARE
11:32SAYING -- AND I KNOW THE PRIME
11:33MINISTER OF ESTONIA SAID TODAY,
11:35I THINK, THAT IF ONLY EVERY NATO
11:39ALLY WOULD GIVE 0.25% OF THEIR
11:42DEFENSE BUDGET OR GDP TO
11:43SUPPORTING UKRAINE, IT WOULD WIN
11:45AND ALL THE WEAPONS WOULD BE
11:47NECESSARY.
11:47WHAT DO YOU THINK IT NEEDS RIGHT
11:48NOW, UKRAINE?
11:52>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, TODAY IT
11:54NEEDS AMMUNITION, DIRELY.
11:56AND EVERYTHING DEPENDS ON IT
11:57RIGHT NOW.
11:58THEREFORE, THE CZECH INITIATIVE
12:01THAT WAS JUST ANNOUNCED, IT'S A
12:03GREAT EXAMPLE THAT WE STILL HAVE
12:05NOT DONE EVERYTHING THAT WE
12:08COULD.
12:09AND LITHUANIA IS JOINING THE
12:10CZECH ANY WITH 35 MILLION EUROS
12:12SO THAT WE WOULD PROVIDE
12:14FINANCING TO CZECH REPUBLIC SO
12:15THAT THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO
12:18PURCHASE AND DELIVER THE
12:20AMMUNITION TO UKRAINE.
12:23ANY COUNTRY THAT HAS A
12:24POSSIBILITY TO GET THEIR HANDS
12:25ON AMMUNITION THAT UKRAINE
12:27REQUIRES SHOULD BE DOING JUST
12:28THAT.
12:29AND IF IT BOILS DOWN TO MOUNTAIN
12:30LION, I MOOEFN MY COUNTRY, WE
12:32CAN CHIP IN.
12:33AND I'M SURE OTHERS CAN DO THEIR
12:34PART AS WELL.
12:37WE STILL HAVE NOT EXHAUSTED ALL
12:38THE RESOURCES THAT WE HAVE.
12:39>> THIS IS THE GERMAN CHANCELLOR
12:42OLAF SCHOLZ TODAY TALKING ABOUT
12:45RUSSIAN FROZEN ASSETS AND HOW
12:46IT -- THOSE COULD PLAY A ROLE AS
12:48WELL.
12:49JUST TICK A LISTEN.
12:52>> Translator: THE USE OF WIN
12:53FOR PROFITS FROM RUSSIA'S
12:57PROFITS IS ABOUT PROCEEDS THAT
12:58CAN BE USE WHICH NO ONE IS
13:00ENTITLED TO AND THEREFORE CAN BE
13:01USED BY THE EUROPEAN UNION.
13:03AND IN MY VIEW, THEY SHOULD
13:04FIRST AND FOREMOST BE USED TO
13:06ACQUIRE THE WEAPONS AND
13:07AMMUNITION THAT UKRAINE NEEDS
13:08FOR ITS DEFENSE.
13:10>> DO YOU AGREE?
13:10AND WOULD IT MAKE A DIFFERENCE?
13:16>> OF COURSE.
13:17OF COURSE.
13:19IT'S A GOOD ARGUMENT FOR THE
13:20PEOPLE IN THE COUNTRIES WHO ARE
13:22SUPPORTING UKRAINE THAT WE ARE
13:23ALSO USING NOT JUST OUR TAXPAYER
13:25MONEY, YOU KNOW, BEING ABLE TO
13:29EXPLAIN WHY WE'RE DOING THIS.
13:31BUT WE'RE ALSO USING RUSSIAN
13:33MONEY, KIND OF TO SEND THE
13:35MONEY, TRANSFER IT, MAKE IT INTO
13:36AMMUNITION, MAKE INTO IT THE
13:37WEAPONS, AND SEND IT TO UKRAINE.
13:41IT'S ONLY LOGICAL.
13:43SO I FULLY SUPPORT CHANCELLOR
13:45SCHOLZ'S IDEA IN THIS POINT.
13:47LOOK, AT THIS STAGE, WE REALLY
13:48NEED THE IDEAS OUT OF THE BOX.
13:52FOR TWO YEARS WE'VE BEEN
13:56ENJOYING RED LINES TO OURSELVES.
13:59WE'VE BURN EXPLAINING WHAT WE
14:01CANNOT DO.
14:01NOW WE HAVE TO CHANGE THAT IF WE
14:06WANT UKRAINE TO WIN AND RUSSIA
14:08TO LOSE THIS WAR.
14:09WE HAVE TO BE CREATIVE SUCH AS
14:10AN IDEA SUGGESTED BY PRESIDENT
14:12MACRON OF FRANCE WHERE HE
14:13SUGGESTED WE CANNOT EXCLUDE EVEN
14:15SENDING BOOTS ON THE GROUND TO
14:17UKRAINE IF THE SITUATION GETS
14:19WORSE.
14:19AND I THINK THIS IS THE TYPE OF
14:20THINKING THAT WE SHOULD BE
14:21SEEING MORE RIGHT NOW.
14:23>> OBVIOUSLY THERE IS ANOTHER
14:25TERRIBLE WAR THAT ACTUALLY IS
14:29ALSO NOT JUST AWFUL, BUT SUCKING
14:31A LOT OF THE ATTENTION AWAY FROM
14:33UKRAINE, AND THAT'S THE ONE
14:34BETWEEN ISRAEL AND GAZA.
14:36EU LEADERS ARE DISCUSSING THAT.
14:38WHAT DOES LITHUANIA WANT TO SEE
14:40COME OUT OF THIS SUMMIT WHEN IT
14:44COMES TO THE HUMANITARIAN CRISIS
14:45IN GAZA, TO THE IDEA OF A
14:47CEASEFIRE, TO ALSO GET THE
14:48HOSTAGES, THE ISRAELI HOSTAGES
14:50OUT.
14:52>> WELL, I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO
14:54SEE A UNIFIED EUROPEAN POSITION.
14:56WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO
14:57FORMULATE A POSITION BECAUSE THE
15:01POSITION OF CERTAIN COUNTRIES
15:03WERE JUST TOO WIDE APART.
15:04AND WE WERE TRYING TO BRIDGE IT.
15:06WE WERE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THE
15:09WAY FORWARD.
15:10UNFORTUNATELY, WE'RE NOT THERE.
15:12AND IT'S QUITE CLEAR.
15:13WE HAVE TO TELL THAT THE HOSTAGE
15:14HAVE TO BE RELEASED.
15:16THAT'S A PARAMOUNT TO THE SAFETY
15:20OF ISRAEL.
15:21AND YES, WE HAVE TO ASK FOR AT
15:25LEAST A TEMPORARY CEASEFIRE,
15:27ESPECIALLY WHERE WHEN THE
15:29SITUATION, HUMANITARIAN
15:30SITUATION GETS AS BAD AS IT IS
15:31RIGHT NOW.
15:33THIS IS NOT THE POSITION OF --
15:37NOT A UNITED POSITION OF THE
15:39EUROPEAN UNION, UNFORTUNATELY.
15:40>> YEAH.
15:42FOREIGN MINISTER LANDSBERGIS,
15:44THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING
15:45US.
15:45AND NOW THE U.S. SECRETARY OF
15:47STATE ANTONY BLINKEN IS IN EGYPT
15:48TODAY WHILE HE SAYS NEGOTIATIONS
15:50TO SECURE THAT CEASEFIRE DEAL IN
15:51GAZA ARE GETTING CLOSER, A
15:54DIPLOMAT WHOSE BEEN BRIEFED ON
15:55THIS MATTER TELLS CNN A LOT OF
15:55DIFFERENCES REMAIN.
15:58AND BENJAMIN NETANYAHU INSISTS
16:00HIS MILITARY WILL GO ON THE
16:01OFFENSIVE IN RAFAH.
16:03DEATH AND DESPAIR ARE EVERYWHERE
16:04IN GAZA WHERE NO END IN SIGHT.
16:07ISRAEL'S RAID OF AL-SHIFA
16:09HOSPITAL IS NOW IN ITS FOURTH
16:11DAY.
16:12CORRESPONDENT NADA BASHIR HAS
16:14THIS REPORT.
16:14AND A WARNING, OF COURSE.
16:16VIEWERS WILL FIND SOME OF THE
16:16IMAGES DISTRESSING.
16:21>> Translator: I ONLY LEFT TO
16:23FIND FLOUR, TO FIND FOOD," THIS
16:23WOMAN SCREAMS.
16:29WHERE ARE THEY?
16:30HER HUSBAND, CHILDREN, AND OTHER
16:32RELATIVES ARE NOWHERE TO BE
16:33FOUND.
16:35THEIR HOME DESTROYED IN AN
16:37ISRAELI AIR STRIKE WHILE SHE WAS
16:38GONE.
16:40MOMENTS LATER, HER NEPHEW IS
16:41PULLED FROM THE RUBBLE.
16:45BUT HE IS BARELY CLINGING ON TO
16:46LIFE.
16:51IN CENTRAL GAZA, AS BOMBS
16:53CONTINUE TO RAIN DOWN, SO DO
16:55THESE FOREBODING LEAFLETS.
16:57A WARNING FROM THE ISRAELI
16:59MILITARY FOR CIVILIANS TO FLEE
17:01SOUTHWARDS, DIRECTED AT THOSE
17:04LIVING IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND
17:06THE THOUSANDS CURRENTLY
17:08SHELTERING IN THE NEARBY
17:10AL-SHIFA HOSPITAL COMPLEX.
17:11THIS WAS THE SCENE AT THE
17:15BELEAGUERED MEDICAL COMPLEX ON
17:16MONDAY.
17:16THE ALARMING SOUND OF ARTILLERY
17:18FIRE ECHOING THROUGH THE EARLY
17:19HOURS OF THE MORNING.
17:23"NOBODY HAS BEEN ABLE TO REACH
17:24THOSE INJURED OR KILLED AT
17:27AL-SHIFA," THIS EYEWITNESS SAYS,
17:29FILMING DISCREETLY.
17:30SOME 3,000 PEOPLE ARE BELIEVED
17:31TO HAVE BEEN SHELTERING IN AND
17:33AROUND THE HOSPITAL WHEN THE
17:35RAID BEGAN, ACCORDING TO THE
17:36PALESTINIAN HEALTH MINISTRY.
17:40ISRAELI MILITARY VEHICLES SEEN
17:41HERE IN VIDEO FILMED BY A DOCTOR
17:43IN THE HOSPITAL HAVE SURROUNDED
17:44THE COMPLEX FOR DAYS.
17:48ON TUESDAY, ONE CIVILIAN TRAPPED
17:50INSIDE SENT CNN THIS AUDIO
17:51RECORDING.
17:55"THE HOSPITAL IS STILL UNDER
17:56BOMBARDMENT.
17:57THERE HAS BEEN HEAVY SHELLING
18:00AND LIVE FIRE."
18:02"ONE MAN WAS JUST LOOKING OUT OF
18:03THE WINDOW ON THE SECOND FLOOR
18:04WHEN HE WAS HIT BAY SNIPER AND
18:05KILLED.
18:09THE ISRAELI MILITARY SAYS IT IS
18:11CONDUCTING WHAT IT DESCRIBED AS
18:12A PRECISE MILITARY OPERATION
18:15TARGETING SENIOR HAMAS MILITANTS
18:17OPERATING WITHIN THE HOSPITAL
18:19COMPLEX.
18:21ISRAELI MILITARY SPOKESMAN
18:23DANIEL HAGARI ACCUSED HAMAS ON
18:25MONDAY OF USING THE HOSPITAL AS
18:26A COMMAND CENTER.
18:29IT IS THE VERY SAME CLAIM MADE
18:31BY THE IDF AHEAD OF ITS RAID ON
18:34AL-SHIFA BACK IN NOVEMBER.
18:35ON MONDAY, THE IDF RELEASED THIS
18:38VIDEO SHOWING A SAFE FULL OF
18:41CASH, AN ENVELOPE WITH HAMAS AND
18:43ISLAMIC JIHAD INSIGNIA, AND A
18:45SERIES OF WEAPONS PRESENTED AS
18:49EVIDENCE TO JUSTIFY ITS RAID ON
18:50THE HOSPITAL.
18:52BUT MUCH LIKE THE IDF RAID IN
18:54NOVEMBER, LITTLE OTHER EVIDENCE
18:55WAS PROVIDED TO PROVE THE
18:58CENTER AT THE AL-SHIFA HOSPITAL.
19:03HAMAS' MILITARY WING, MEANWHILE,
19:05HAS ACKNOWLEDGED THAT ITS
19:06FIGHTERS HAVE BEEN ENGAGED WITH
19:08FIERCE CLASHES WITH THE ISRAELI
19:10TROOPS IN THE AREAS SURROUNDING
19:11THE HOSPITAL.
19:13ADDING THAT GAZA'S CIVIL POLICE
19:15CHIEF, WHO LED THE COORDINATION
19:16OF FOOD AND AID DELIVERIES TO
19:18THE STRIP WAS KILLED DURING THE
19:20RAID.
19:23IN A STATEMENT, THE IDF SAID
19:27WEDNESDAY THAT APPROXIMATELY 90,
19:28QUOTE, TERRORISTS WERE KILLED.
19:30THE IDF ALSO MAINTAINED THAT NO
19:33HARM HAD BEEN INFLICTED ON SIEVE
19:35I CAN'T BES OR MEDICAL STAFF IN
19:38THE HOSPITAL.
19:39BUT TAYLORMADES FROM
19:41PALESTINIANS INSIDE AL-SHIFA
19:41TELL A VERY DIFFERENT STORY.
19:47"WE WERE INFORMED BY THE
19:49ISRAELIS THAT ANYONE MOVING
19:50WITHIN THE HOSPITAL OR AROUND
19:51THE HOSPITAL COMPLEX WOULD BE
19:53TARGETED BY SNIPERS," THIS
19:56MEDICAL STUDENT SAYS.
19:56WE CAN'T LEAVE THE BUILDING TO
19:58TREAT THOSE INJURED OUTSIDE.
20:00SOME FAMILIES ATTEMPTED TO
20:02LEAVE, BUT THEY WERE TARGETED
20:04AND KILLED.
20:08WHOSE WHO HAVE BEEN ABLE TO
20:09LEAVE CENTRAL GAZA ARE NOW
20:10FORCED TO MAKE THE UNCERTAIN
20:12JOURNEY SOUTH, WITH NO GUARANTEE
20:14OF PROTECTION OR SURVIVAL.
20:20STRIPPED TO THEIR UNDERWEAR AND
20:22BAREFOOT, THESE YOUNG BOYS SAY
20:23THEY ARE THANKFUL JUST TO HAVE
20:24ESCAPED WITH THEIR LIVES.
20:28RECOUNTING THEIR HARROWING
20:29EXPERIENCE, THEY SAY THEY WERE
20:30MET WITH ISRAELI TANKS AND
20:32FORCED INTO AN OPEN SQUARE WHERE
20:34THEY WERE INTERROGATED AND
20:35ORDERED TO UNDRESS.
20:37OTHER MEN AROUND THEM THEY SAY
20:37WERE KILLED.
20:43MANY EVACUEES HAVE BEEN BADLY
20:45WOUNDED.
20:46LIMP, BLOODIED BODIES ARE
20:46CARRIED BY CART.
20:50BUT THERE IS LITTLE CARE
20:51AVAILABLE IN THE SOUTH ANYMORE.
20:54AND THERE IS NO TELLING WHETHER
20:57THESE MEN, LIKE SO MANY OTHERS,
20:58WILL SURVIVE.
21:01>> NOW EARLIER THIS WEEK, WE
21:04AIRED A RECORD BY OUR COLLEAGUE
21:06JEREMY DIAMOND ABOUT A GROUP OF
21:08CANCER PATIENTS AND PREGNANT
21:09WOMEN WHO HAD BEEN TRANSPORTED
21:10BEFORE THE WAR TO EAST JERUSALEM
21:12FROM GAZA FOR CRITICAL MEDICAL
21:13CARE.
21:15AFTER THEIR CARE WAS COMPLETED,
21:17THEY FACED DEPORTATION WITH
21:18THEIR BABIES BACK TO THE WAR
21:20ZONE.
21:22TODAY, THOUGH, THE ISRAELI
21:23GOVERNMENT IS DELAYING THAT
21:25DEPORTATION FOLLOWING A
21:27TEMPORARY INJUNCTION BY THE
21:28SUPREME COURT.
21:28THIS FOLLOWED AN APPEAL BY
21:30ISRAELI HUMAN RIGHTS
21:33ORGANIZATIONS WHO HAD SEEN
21:33DIAMOND'S REPORT ON CNN.
21:37>>> WE TURN NOW TO BRUSSELS,
21:39WHERE WORLD LEADERS ARE GATHERED
21:40FOR THE FIRST EVER NUCLEAR
21:41ENERGY SUMMIT.
21:42IT AIMS TO HIGHLIGHT THE POWER
21:44OF NUCLEAR ENERGY IN TACKLING
21:46THE CLIMATE CRISIS AND ENHANCING
21:49ENERGY SECURITY.
21:49OUR NEXT GUEST, DIRECTOR GENERAL
21:52OF THE INTERNATIONAL ATOMIC
21:54ENERGY AGENCY, RAFAEL GROSSI,
21:56CO-CHAIRED THE EVENT, WHICH IS
21:58MORE URGENT THAN EVER GIVEN THE
21:59WARS AND TENSIONS THAT ARE
22:01HAPPENING AROUND THE WORLD, SUCH
22:02AS PUTIN'S INVASION OF UKRAINE
22:05AND WILLINGNESS TO CONDUCT
22:07MILITARY OPERATIONS THAT
22:08THREATEN THE MASSIVE NUCLEAR
22:10POWER PLANTS THERE.
22:11JUST BEFORE THE SUMMIT, WALTER
22:15ISAACSON SPOKE TO RAFAEL GROSSI
22:19ABOUT THESE SERIOUS SAFETY
22:19CONCERNS.
22:20>> THANK YOU, CHRISTIANE, AND
22:21RAFAEL GROSSI, WELCOME BACK TO
22:23THE SHOW.
22:23>> YES, MY PLEASURE.
22:25HELLO.
22:26>> YOU RECENTLY MET WITH RUSSIAN
22:28PRESIDENT PUTIN ABOUT THE
22:32ZAPORIZHZHIA NUCLEAR POWER PLANT
22:35IN UKRAINE.
22:36IT'S THE LARGEST I THINK IN
22:39EUROPE AND RUSSIA CONTROLS IT.
22:41WHAT WERE YOUR CONCERNS AND WHAT
22:42DID PRESIDENT PUTIN SAY TO YOU?
22:46>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THIS IS PART
22:47OF MY EFFORTS, ONGOING EFFORTS
22:50SINCE THE PLANT WAS -- CAME
22:54UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE RUSSIAN
22:56FEDERATION.
22:56BUT WE HAVE BEEN WORKING THERE.
23:02I HAVE ESTABLISHED A PERMANENT
23:05PRESENCE OF THE IAEA THERE.
23:07AND I WAS IN KYIV AS WELL.
23:09I MET WITH PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY.
23:11AND THEN OF COURSE I NEEDED TO
23:12GO TO THE OTHER SIDE AND, YOU
23:15KNOW, WE DISCUSS A NUMBER OF
23:16THINGS.
23:17WE DISCUSSED SOME TECHNICAL
23:19ISSUES, YOU KNOW, AS YOU SAID,
23:22THIS IS THE LARGEST, THE BIGGEST
23:25NUCLEAR POWER PLANT IN EUROPE,
23:27SIX BIG REACTORS, SIX GIGAWATTS
23:31OF CAPACITY THERE.
23:33AND MANY OF COURSE OPEN
23:37QUESTIONS, BECAUSE WE SHOULD
23:38NEVER FORGET THAT THIS FACILITY
23:39IS EXACTLY ON THE FRONT LINE OF
23:43THE WAR.
23:44SO IT'S NOT IN THE VICINITY OR
23:49SOMEWHERE NEAR.
23:51IT'S QUITE DRAMATIC IN THAT
23:52SENSE.
23:52SO WE'VE HAD IN THE PAST
23:57SITUATIONS OF SHEDDING AT THE
24:02-- SHELLING AT THE PLANT.
24:04AND BLACKOUTS.
24:05IT'S VERY DANGEROUS BECAUSE THIS
24:08WOULD COUNT A COOLING FUNCTION
24:10THEREFORE POTENTIALLY LEADING TO
24:12A NUCLEAR ACCIDENT.
24:13SO THERE ARE MANY, MANY ISSUES
24:17THAT WE NEED TO DISCUSS AND MY
24:19LAST TRIP TO SOCHI IN FACT,
24:22SOUTH RUSSIA WHERE WE HAD A LONG
24:25CONVERSATION.
24:26PUTIN AND I PUT PAST A NUMBER OF
24:28MESSAGES OF THINGS THAT SHOULD
24:29BE DONE THERE.
24:33AND ALSO LOOK INTO THE WIDER
24:36PERSPECTIVE OF THE PLANT AND
24:37OTHER EFFORTS TO BRING THE
24:38SITUATION TO A MORE STABLE
24:41PLACE.
24:41>> SO YOU'RE IN SOCHI WITH
24:43PRESIDENT PUTIN SITTING WITH HIM
24:47FOR A WHILE.
24:48TELL ME WHAT WAS THAT LIKE, AND
24:49WHAT ELSE DID HE DISCUSS?
24:50WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF HIS
24:53MIND-SET NOW?
24:54>> WELL, I MUST SAY, THIS IS NOT
24:56MY FIRST TIME WITH HIM SINCE THE
24:57WAR STARTED.
25:00I HAD A YEAR AGO MORE OR LESS A
25:03LONG MEETING IN ST. PETERSBURG.
25:05AND THESE MEETINGS I MUST SAY
25:08OBJECTIVELY SPEAKING ARE VERY
25:11PROFESSIONAL, VERY THOUGHTFUL.
25:12HE HAS A VERY, YOU KNOW, GOOD
25:17UNDERSTANDING NUCLEAR
25:19TECHNOLOGY.
25:19SO IT IS POSSIBLE TO HAVE A VERY
25:26THOUGHTFUL CONVERSATION OF
25:27SPECIFIC ISSUES RELATED TO THE
25:29FUNCTIONING OF THE PLANT AND
25:30ALSO SOME OTHERS THAT ARE OF A
25:37MORE GENERAL NATURE RELATED TO
25:38THE SITUATION THERE, THE
25:39SITUATION AROUND THE PLANT AND
25:40SO ON.
25:41SO I WOULD SAY YES, IT WAS A
25:45VERY, VERY POINTED AND VERY
25:47METICULOUS TECHNICAL
25:48CONVERSATION.
25:49>> YOU SAY HE IS VERY GOOD AT
25:50THE TECHNICALITIES OF
25:52UNDERSTANDING THE NUCLEAR PLANT.
25:56HOW CONVINCE READY YOU THAT HE
25:58ABSOLUTELY WOULD WANT TO MAKE
25:58SURE THERE WAS NO BIG ACCIDENT
26:00AT THAT PLANT OR ANY OF THE
26:02OTHERS IN UKRAINE?
26:03>> WELL, YOU KNOW, IT'S A BIT OF
26:08SPECULATION, ISN'T IT?
26:09BUT FOR ME, ONE VERY BASIC ONE
26:13COULD SAY COMMON SENSE RULE
26:18TELLS US THAT A NUCLEAR ACCIDENT
26:19THERE WOULD BENEFIT NO ONE.
26:24UKRAINE, RUSSIA, OR THE REST OF
26:25EUROPE.
26:26SO IT IS IN THIS SENSE FOR ME,
26:28FOR MY JOB, IT IS EASIER TO
26:32CONVINCE THE LEADERS TO DO
26:34CERTAIN THINGS OR NOT TO DO
26:36OTHER THINGS IN ORDER TO AVOID
26:40SITUATIONS THAT COULD SCALE UP
26:44TO SOME CONFRONTATION AROUND THE
26:45PLANT, WHICH WOULD BE OF COURSE
26:47EXTREMELY DANGEROUS.
26:48>> A YEAR AGO WHEN YOU WERE
26:50TALKING TO CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR
26:51ON THIS SHOW, YOU TALKED ABOUT
26:53TRYING TO ESTABLISH A ZONE OF
26:57PROTECTION AROUND THE PLANT.
26:58HOW'S THAT GOING?
26:59>> WELL, I -- THAT APPROACH
27:04CHANGED.
27:04I WENT TO THE UNITED NATIONS
27:07SECURITY COUNCIL A FEW MONTHS
27:08AGO.
27:08AND INSTEAD OF TRYING TO
27:10ESTABLISH AT THE LIMITATION WITH
27:16THE TERRITORIAL CONNOTATION, WE
27:18MOVED INTO A BEHAVIORAL TYPE OF
27:19THING.
27:20BASICALLY DON'T DO THIS, DO
27:21THAT, WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT
27:25CAN BE EASILY UNDERSTOOD BY
27:26EVERYBODY AT A TIME WHERE THE
27:28SECURITY COUNCIL IS A PLACE
27:31WHERE AGREEMENTS ARE ALMOST
27:33IMPOSSIBLE TO GET.
27:35I GOT WIDESPREAD IF NOT ABSOLUTE
27:37SUPPORT FOR THIS, WHICH WAS NOT
27:39A PROPOSAL BY THE RUSSIANS OR
27:41FROM THE UKRAINIANS.
27:43IT WAS SOMETHING THAT THE IAEA
27:45WAS SAYING THIS IS WHAT WE NEED
27:46TO DO NOW IF WE WANT TO AVOID A
27:47NUCLEAR ACCIDENT.
27:52SO IT'S A VERY CLEAR SET OF
27:54CRITERIA THAT NEED TO BE
27:55OBSERVED.
27:56AND THIS IS -- WHAT WE HAVE
27:59CONSIDERED INITIALLY AS A ZONE
28:06SANCTUARY, IF YOU WILL, AROUND
28:07THE PLANT BUBBLE, THIS AS I WAS
28:09SAYING AT THE FRONT LINES OF A
28:12WAR IS VERY, VERY DIFFICULT TO
28:15OBTAIN.
28:16MILITARY COMMANDERS ON ONE SIDE
28:19OR THE OTHER WILL -- YOU KNOW,
28:22IT WILL BE VERY DIFFICULT TO
28:24CONVINCE THEM NOT TO OPERATE
28:25THERE, TO MOVE THERE, TO DO
28:27CERTAIN THINGS.
28:28SO I SHIFTED MY APPROACH INTO
28:32CERTAIN THINGS THAT NEEDED TO BE
28:35AVOIDED AT ALL COSTS.
28:36AND OF COURSE I DON'T WANT TO
28:38JINX IT, BUT SO FAR WE HAVE BEEN
28:39ABLE TO AVOID THE RISK.
28:41NATURALLY, AND I WILL TO SAY
28:42THIS VERY CLEARLY, UNTIL WE COME
28:45TO THE END OF THIS STORY WITHOUT
28:48NUCLEAR ACCIDENT, HE WILL NEVER
28:49SAY THAT THINGS ARE OKAY OR
28:51STABLE OR WHATEVER, BECAUSE THEY
28:54ARE SIMPLY NOT.
28:55IT'S A DAY BY DAY EFFORT THAT GO
28:59THROUGH.
28:59>> YOU SAY THINGS ARE NOT
29:01TOTALLY STABLE.
29:01THERE IS ALWAYS SOME WORRY.
29:02WHAT IS YOUR BIGGEST WORRY?
29:06>> WELL, HAVE I TWO, BASICALLY.
29:08ONE IS OF COURSE THE POSSIBILITY
29:10THERE ARE ALWAYS SOME EPISODES
29:12OF SHELLING, OF SOMETHING.
29:16NOW WE HAVE THE APPEARANCE OF
29:20THE DRONES AND SOME DRONES ARE
29:24LOADED WITH EXPLOSIVES.
29:25SO THAT IS ANOTHER THREAT THAT
29:29WE ARE SEEING.
29:30THAT IS ONE, AND AS I MENTIONED
29:32A MOMENT AGO, THE BLACKOUT.
29:33SO THE POSSIBILITY THAT THIS
29:36STATION IS WITHOUT ANY POWER,
29:40ANY EXTERNAL POWER SUPPLY FOR
29:42LONG PERIOD OF TIME, THEN THE
29:44EMERGENCY GENERATORS RAN OUT OF
29:46FUEL, AND THEN YOU HAVE A
29:48MELTDOWN.
29:49SO THOSE SCENARIOS ARE NOT
29:52IMPOSSIBLE.
29:54AND THIS IS WHAT WE NEED TO
29:55AVOID.
29:56AND THIS IS WHY WE HAVE OUR TEAM
29:57THERE, TEAM OF EXPERTS.
30:01LIVES THERE, INFORMING US BY THE
30:05MINUTE WHAT IS THE SITUATION.
30:06YOU MIGHT HAVE NOTICED THAT FROM
30:09ZAPORIZHZHIA, YOU VERY RARELY
30:10GET FAKE STORIES OR STRANGE
30:12STORIES.
30:12AND IT'S BECAUSE THE IAEA IS
30:14THERE.
30:16SO WE CAN SAY EXACTLY WHAT IS
30:19HAPPENING, IF SOMEBODY SAYS WE
30:20ARE BEING ATTACKED OR WHATEVER.
30:21OR THE CONTRARY, FIRE IS COMING
30:23FROM THE STATION.
30:23I HAVE MY GUYS THERE.
30:26SO THEY ARE TELLING ME EXACTLY
30:28WHAT IS GOING ON, WHAT'S GOING
30:30ON MORE TECHNICAL ASPECTS THAT
30:31WOULD BE PERHAPS A BIT BORING TO
30:32DESCRIBE HERE.
30:36BUT ANY WAY, THE IMPORTANT THING
30:37IS THE IAEA IS THERE.
30:38WE'RE NOT GOING ANYWHERE UNTIL
30:39THIS COMES TO A BETTER PLACE.
30:42>> YOU SAY THAT EXPERTS FROM
30:43YOUR AGENCY ARE THERE.
30:45I THINK YOU'VE DONE A COUPLE
30:46ROTATIONS IN THE PLANT.
30:47WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN YOU'RE
30:48THERE?
30:48WHAT'S IT LIKE?
30:50>> WELL, THERE NORMALLY WHAT WE
30:54DO IS WHEN I PERSONALLY GO, THE
30:56PEOPLE THERE, THEY HAVE A TEAM.
31:00THEY GO TO NUCLEAR POWER PLANT,
31:03ESPECIALLY ONE WITH SIX
31:05REACTORS.
31:06IT'S A HUGE CITE, SITE, VERY BIG
31:12SITE, WHERE THERE ARE MANY
31:14SAFETY FUNCTIONS THAT WE NEED TO
31:15CHECK THAT ARE BEING PERFORMED
31:16WELL.
31:17WE NEED TO CHECK THE WATER
31:18LEVELS OF THE COOLING FUNCTION.
31:22WE NEED TO GO TO THE CONTROL
31:23ROOMS AND SEE HOW THIS IS GOING.
31:24SO WE HAVE LIKE A CHECKLIST, IF
31:26YOU WANT THAT WE HAVE TO GO
31:29THROUGH EVERY DAY.
31:30WHEN I GO, OF COURSE, I HAVE THE
31:34OPPORTUNITY TO MEET THE
31:35MANAGEMENT, AND THEN WE CAN
31:38ADDRESS MORE GENERAL ISSUES AS
31:39WELL.
31:40>> PRESIDENT PUTIN HAS
31:41THREATENED OR HINTED THAT HE
31:43MIGHT ACTUALLY USE NUCLEAR
31:45WEAPONS OR TACTICAL BATTLEFIELD
31:47NUCLEAR WEAPONS IN THIS WAR,
31:48ESPECIALLY I WOULD GUESS IF THE
31:50RED LINES LIKE CRIMEA WERE
31:51ATTACKED.
31:56LIKELY IT IS, AND WHAT WOULD
31:58TRIGGER THAT, DO YOU THINK?
32:00>> WELL, YOU KNOW THE USE OF
32:04NUCLEAR WEAPONS BY COUNTRIES
32:05THAT ARE LEGITIMATE POSSESSORS
32:07OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS, BASICALLY
32:09THE FIFE PERMANENT MEMBERS OF
32:12THE SECURITY COUNCIL, INCLUDING
32:13THE UNITED STATES ACCORDING TO
32:14THE TREATY OF NONPROLIFERATION
32:16OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS, THESE
32:18COUNTRIES CAPPED THESE NUCLEAR
32:20WEAPONS.
32:21THESE WHAT THESE COUNTRIES
32:22NORMALLY HAVE IS A SETTER OF
32:26PRESENCE PAL SCENARIOS ACCORDING
32:28TO WHICH THEY WOULD RESORT TO
32:32USING NUCLEAR WEAPONS.
32:35NORMALLY, THEY ARE NOT SO
32:37DISSIMILAR, I WOULD SAY, AND
32:38NORMALLY THEY ARE ASSOCIATED
32:39WITH THE OBVIOUS THINGS, EUROPE
32:41BEING ATTACKED WITH NUCLEAR
32:43WEAPONS, OR IN A MORE I WOULD
32:45SAY GENERAL SENSE, BEING AN
32:49EXISTENTIAL THREAT THAT WOULD
32:51MAKE THE POSSESSOR OF A NUCLEAR
32:55WEAPON USE IT.
32:58THIS IS THE SITUATION.
32:59THIS IS VALID.
33:00THIS HAS BEEN REITERATED.
33:06BY ALL.
33:06AT THE SAME TIME, I WISH TO
33:09REMIND THAT THESE COUNTRIES SAID
33:10AND REPEATED THAT FAMOUS OLD
33:13FORMULA THAT I THINK WAS UTTERED
33:17BY SECRETARY GORBACHEV
33:19ADDRESSING PRESIDENT REAGAN,
33:20THAT A NUCLEAR WAR CAN NEVER BE
33:23WON AND MUST NEVER BE FOUGHT.
33:24SO IF YOU UNLEASH A NUCLEAR
33:29CONFLICT, THE LOGIC OF IT COULD
33:30VERY EASILY LEAD US TO TOTAL
33:31DESTRUCTION.
33:35SO MY IMPRESSION WOULD BE THAT
33:37THERE WOULD BE RESTRAINT.
33:40OF COURSE THERE ARE SOME
33:41STATEMENTS WHICH ARE
33:43REGRETTABLE.
33:43I WOULD NOT GET INTO THAT, OF
33:45COURSE, BUT WHAT I'M GIVING YOU
33:47IS THE PARAMETERS, THE
33:50PARAMETERS THAT DO EXIST AND
33:51THAT WE HOPE WILL BE RESPECTED.
33:53>> WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THOSE
33:55PARAMETERS, YOU JUST SAID
33:56SOMETHING, WHICH IS IF THE
33:59COUNTRY FACES AN EXISTENTIAL
34:00THREAT, MEANING A THREAT TO ITS
34:03EXISTENCE.
34:03DO YOU THINK CRIMEA IS AN
34:06EXISTENTIAL ISSUE FOR RUSSIA?
34:11>> I WOULDN'T GO INTO THAT.
34:12FIRST OF ALL, CRIMEA IS AN
34:14OCCUPIED TERRITORY ACCORDING TO
34:16INTERNATIONAL LAW.
34:19SO FRANKLY SPEAKING, FOR ME TO
34:23INDICATE WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT
34:24WHERE RUSSIA WILL RESORT TO
34:26NUCLEAR WEAPONS WOULD BE
34:28IMPRUDENT.
34:31I WOULD SIMPLY SAY NUCLEAR
34:32WEAPONS HAVE NO PLACE IN
34:34GENERAL, BUT IN PARTICULAR, IN
34:35FAMILIAR THIS CONFLICT, I DON'T
34:38SEE THEM BEING USED.
34:39I HOPE THIS WOULD BE THE CASE.
34:40>> PRESIDENT PUTIN HAS SAID THAT
34:42HE IS PULLING OUT OF THE NEW
34:44START TREATY, WHICH IS A
34:49LONG-STANDING STRATEGIC ARMS
34:50TREATY ON NUCLEAR WEAPONS
34:51BETWEEN EAST AND WEST.
34:55WHAT DO YOU THINK THE
34:56IMPLICATIONS OF THAT ARE AND IS
34:57THERE ANY WAY TO PREVENT THAT?
35:01>> WELL, I THINK THE
35:03IMPLICATIONS OF THAT IS THAT THE
35:06ARMS CONTROL AS OPPOSED TO
35:08DISARMAMENT, THE ARMS CONTROL
35:10STRUCTURES THAT PREPARE BETWEEN
35:14YOU SAID THE WEST.
35:15I WOULD SAY THE UNITED STATES
35:17AND THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION ARE
35:19BEING ERODED.
35:24AND THE PROCESSES THAT LED TO
35:26THESE DIALOGUE THAT EXISTED AND
35:27THE CONTROL REDUCTIONS ARE
35:31SIGNALS WHICH REACHED IN THE
35:321970s AND THE 1980s INCREDIBLE
35:39PROPORTIONS WILL CEASE TO BE
35:41REDUCED, WHICH IS NOT OF COURSE
35:45A GOOD THING.
35:46I THINK IN GENERAL WHAT WE CAN
35:47SAY IS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, THEY
35:49SHOULD BE RETURNED TO THIS
35:52DIALOGUE AND THIS FORM COULD BE
35:55THE START, A NEW START OR ANY
35:57KIND OF AGREEMENT THAT MAY
35:58EXIST.
35:58BUT IT IS CLEAR THAT THE NUMBER
36:03OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS MUST BE
36:05REDUCED AND ULTIMATELY
36:06ELIMINATED COMPLETELY.
36:07BUT WE KNOW THAT IS NOT FOR
36:08TOMORROW.
36:09>> FOR THE PAST 50 YEARS, THIS
36:13WHOLE NOTION OF HAVING A NUCLEAR
36:16ARMS NEGOTIATION PROCESS,
36:19WHETHER IT WAS START OR SALT OR
36:21THE INTERMEDIATE NUCLEAR WEAPONS
36:23TREATIES, IT WASN'T JUST ABOUT
36:24THE OUTCOME OF THOSE TREATIES,
36:26IT WAS A PROCESS WHERE THE SIDES
36:28SAT DOWN AND TRIED TO NEGOTIATE
36:31NUCLEAR ARMS.
36:32NOW WE DON'T HAVE THIS PROCESS.
36:33IS THERE ANY WAY YOU THINK WE
36:36CAN RESTART AT LEAST
36:38NEGOTIATIONS ABOUT NUCLEAR ARMS
36:41FOR THE SAKE OF HAVING THESE
36:43CONVERSATIONS AGAIN?
36:44>> IT'S THE NEXT IMPORTANT.
36:46I THINK THAT THE CONTEXT AND
36:50DIALOGUE IN DISPENSABLE.
36:54NARROWING, IF YOU ALLOW ME, THE
36:55SPECTRUM TO WHAT WE ARE DOING AT
36:57THE MOMENT AS THE IAEA WE ARE
36:59THE ONLY CONDUIT FOR UP SOME
37:03TYPE OF CONVERSATION BETWEEN
37:06KYIV AND MOSCOW, BECAUSE THERE
37:08IS NO DIRECT CONVERSATION.
37:09THERE WAS SOME IN THE BEGINNING
37:14OF THE WAR IN THE SPRING OF
37:182022.
37:18THEN THEREAFTER, NO PROCESS TOOK
37:23PLACE.
37:24AND WHAT WE ARE SEEING AGAIN AT
37:26THE LEVEL OF THE SUPER POWERS IS
37:29FOLLOWING THAT LOGIC OF TALKING
37:30PAST EACH OTHER AND SOMETIMES
37:37INCREASINGLY ALARMING TALK.
37:40THERE IS A NEED OF COURSE ALWAYS
37:42FOR DIPLOMACY.
37:45>> A SENIOR OFFICIAL IN
37:47PRESIDENT BIDEN'S ADMINISTRATION
37:47WHO RECENTLY SAID THAT RIGHT NOW
37:51IS WHEN THE NUCLEAR RISK IS MOST
37:54AFTER THE FOREFRONT.
37:55DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT?
37:56AND IF SO, WHY?
38:02>> WELL, I THINK WHAT WE HAVE
38:05BEEN DISCUSSING HERE WOULD BE A
38:09CONFIRMATION OF THE GENERAL
38:09VALIDITY OF THAT ASSERTION.
38:15WE ARE IN A WORLD WHERE DIALOGUE
38:18AMONG THE SUPER POWERS HAVE
38:19BROKEN DOWN.
38:21WE SEE MORE NUCLEAR WEAPONS,
38:22MORE NUCLEAR WEAPONS BRO DUCED.
38:24WE HAVE A DIRECT CONFRONTATION
38:26WAR AT THE HEART OF EUROPE.
38:28WE ALSO SEE AND HEAR THE CLOSURE
38:32TO MY OMISSION WHICH IS
38:35NONPROLIFERATION OF NUCLEAR
38:36WEAPONS.
38:36WELL SEE COUNTRIES TOYING,
38:38PLAYING WITH THE IDEA OF
38:41DEVELOPING THEIR OWN NUCLEAR
38:42WEAPONS ON TOP OF THE NUCLEAR
38:44WEAPONS WE ALREADY HAVE.
38:45SO THAT CONFIGURATION EXTREMELY
38:52CONCERTING FOR US.
38:54OF COURSE, WE FROM OUR
38:56PERSPECTIVE, OF COURSE, I CANNOT
39:00TALK TALK ABOUT THINGS THAT ARE
39:03BEYOND MY MANDATE.
39:04BUT ON OUR SIDE AND THE AREA OF
39:06PREVENTING PROLIFERATION,
39:10WEAPONS ARE EXTREMELY ACTIVE.
39:13I JUST RETURNED FROM A TOUR IN
39:14THE MIDDLE EAST.
39:15I WAS IN BAGHDAD.
39:16I WAS IN SYRIA.
39:17HAVE I AN OPEN PROCESS WITH IRAN
39:18AS YOU KNOW.
39:19SO WE ARE TRYING TO REINFORCE
39:21THE NORMS OF NONPROLIFERATION
39:24WHEREVER WE CAN SO THAT THE
39:30LANDSCAPE DOESN'T GET ANY
39:32BLEAKER THAN IT ALREADY.
39:33>> RAFAEL GROSSI, THANK YOU SO
39:35MUCH FOR JOINING US.
39:36>> GREAT PLEASURE.
39:37THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
39:40>>> AND NEXT, TO THE WEST END,
39:41WHERE A HIT PLAY IS TAKING
39:43LONDON'S THEATER WORLD BY STORM.
39:45IT'S CALLED "FOR BLACK BOYS WHO
39:46HAVE CONSIDERED SUICIDE WHEN THE
39:48HUE GETS TOO HEAVY."
39:50THE PLAY FOLLOWS SIX YOUNG BLACK
39:52MEN MEETING IN GROUP THERAPY,
39:54MAKING FOR A VERY POWERFUL
39:55EXPLORATION OF RACE,
39:56MASCULINITY, AND MENTAL HEALTH.
40:01IT'S THE CREATION OF PLAY RIGHT
40:03RYAN CALAIS CAMERON, AND I
40:04RECENTLY SAT DOWN WITH HIM ON
40:06STAGE AT THE GARRICK THEATRE TO
40:09DISCUSS THIS OUTBREAK HIT.
40:10RYAN CALAIS CAMERON, WELCOME TO
40:11THE PROGRAM.
40:11>> THANK YOU.
40:12>> I WANT TO FIRST READ THE VERY
40:13INTERESTING NAME OF THIS PLAY.
40:15>> OKAY.
40:16>> "FOR BLACK BOYS WHO HAVE
40:17CONSIDERED SUICIDE WHEN THE HUE
40:19GETS TOO HEAVY."
40:21IT'S SUCH A DRAMATIC, EVOCATIVE
40:24TITLE.
40:24>> YEAH.
40:24>> HOW DID YOU COME UP WITH IT?
40:26>> WELL, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
40:27OVER A DECADE AGO NOW I CAME
40:29ACROSS.
40:29I WAS A DRAMA STUDENT.
40:30I WAS LOOKING FOR MATERIAL THAT
40:32KIND OF SPOKE TO ME IN A KIND OF
40:33WAY IN TERMS OF TYPE I WANTED TO
40:36MAKE.
40:36I CAME ACROSS FOR COLORED GIRLS
40:40WHO CONSIDERED SUICIDE WHEN THE
40:44RAIN BOW ISN'T ENOUGH.
40:44>> THAT'S AMERICAN.
40:45>> PUT ON IN THE 1970S IN NEW
40:46YORK.
40:47AND I'D NEVER HEARD OF AT THAT
40:49TIME.
40:49I WAS SO INSPIRED BY THE TEXT.
40:53BY HOW IT MADE YOUNG BLACK WOMEN
40:55FEEL WHO COULD IDENTIFY
40:56THEMSELVES IN THIS.
40:56YOU KNOW WHAT?
40:57AS AN ARTIST, THIS IS SUCH A
40:59GOOD SPRINGBOARD.
40:59IT TOOK ME A DECADE TO BE ABLE
41:02TO WRITE ANYTHING THAT COULD
41:04EVEN BE IN THE SAME KIND OF
41:06SPACE AS THAT.
41:07BUT IT INSPIRED ME TO GO.
41:08THERE ARE STORIES OUT THERE THAT
41:10NEED TO BE TOLD FOR PEOPLE THAT
41:10LOOK LIKE ME.
41:14>> AND WHAT ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO
41:15LOOK LIKE YOU WHO ARE THE
41:17PROTAGONISTS OF YOUR PLAY.
41:17>> YEP, YEP.
41:19>> WHAT IS THIS CREATOR LOOKING
41:21THEATER SET SAY ABOUT HOW
41:23THEY'RE BEHAVING IN THIS SPACE.
41:26>> YEAH.
41:26THIS WHAT WE HAVE RIGHT HERE IS
41:27THE SECOND ACT WHERE THE YOUNG
41:29MEN ACTUALLY GET TO REALLY
41:30EXPRESS THEMSELVES.
41:31AND THE WHOLE POINT OF IT IS
41:32WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF YOUNG MEN
41:34HAVE BEEN CONDITIONED BY SOCIETY
41:36TO BE LESSER THAN THEMSELVES, TO
41:38BE ALMOST LIKE HALF A MAN, YOU
41:40KNOW, NOT BEING ABLE TO CRY OR
41:41OPEN UP OR TO SPEAK ABOUT YOUR
41:43FEELINGS OR EMOTIONS.
41:44WHAT IF WE COULD JUST OPEN UP.
41:46WHAT WOULD THAT LOOK LIKE?
41:47WHAT COLORS AND IMAGINATIONS AND
41:48MAGIC WOULD THAT CREATE?
41:49AND THAT'S WHAT ACT 2 REALLY
41:51SHOWS US.
41:52WHEN THESE GUYS REALLY GET INTO
41:54IT, THEY REALLY DO GET INTO IT.
41:56>> I GUESS THE FOLLOW-UP WOULD
41:57BE, WHAT IS IT ABOUT BLACK BOYS
42:01THAT YOU THINK NEEDS TO BE TOLD
42:03THAT THEY CAN'T EXPRESS
42:04THEMSELVES, LIKE MAYBE WHITE
42:06BOYS?
42:06>> OFTEN THE BIGGEST ISSUE IS
42:08ABOUT WHAT MEN SHOULD BE, RIGHT,
42:09AND HOW SOCIETY IS KIND OF FOR
42:11HUNDREDS OF YEARS PUT MEN INTO A
42:13POSITION OF BRAUN AND BEING
42:16STOIC AND NOT BEING ABLE TO
42:17EXPRESS YOURSELVES THROUGH
42:19ANYTHING, THROUGH SONG, THROUGH
42:20DANCE.
42:21AND YOU CAN DOUBLE, TRIPLE THAT
42:23WHEN YOU ADD BLACK MEN TO THAT
42:27AND THIS IMAGE, THIS NARRATIVE
42:28THAT SOCIETY, MEDIA AND ART
42:29GIVES OF WHAT A BLACK MAN SHOULD
42:31BE.
42:31I THINK AS YOUNG BLACK MEN, WE
42:33CONSUME THAT.
42:33AND WE GO OKAY, I NEED TO BE
42:35THIS IMAGE OF BLACKNESS, OR I'M
42:38NOT BLACK ENOUGH.
42:39I PUT SIX YOUNG, AUTHENTIC,
42:41YOUNG BLACK BOYS ON STAGE TO
42:42WHOEVER YOU ARE, YOU ARE ENOUGH.
42:44>> AND THIS IS FOR BLACK BOYS
42:46WHO ARE CONSIDERED SUICIDE THAT
42:49DECIDED OUR STORIES MUST BE TOLD
42:51AND OUR JOY FOREVER RISING.
42:52>> SO WHAT ARE THE SIX STAGES OF
42:54BEING A BLACK YOUTH?
42:56>> SO I'VE WRITTEN MONOLOGUES.
42:57WHAT HAPPENS IS EVERY TIME WE
42:59CAST AND RECAST THE SHOW, I GET
43:00YOUNG BLACK MEN TO COME AND I GO
43:02TO THEM WHICH ONE OF THESE
43:04MONOLOGUES ATEAL TO YOU?
43:05SO EVERY TIME WE DO THE SHOW,
43:07THE CHARACTERS FEEL DIFFERENT,
43:08BECAUSE I CAN'T DEFINE WHAT SIX
43:10VERSIONS OF BLACKNESS IS.
43:12I JUST MADE DISTINCTIVELY
43:14DIFFERENT MONTH LOGS.
43:15EVERY SINGLE TIME WE GET THESE
43:17YOUNG MEN TO POUR INTO IT AND
43:18SHOW HOW THEY ARE DIFFERENT.
43:19WE'VE DONE THIS FOUR TIMES NOW.
43:21AND EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM HAS
43:22BEEN DIFFERENT.
43:23>> WHEN YOU SAY FOUR TIMES, IT'S
43:25FOUR PRODUCTIONS ACROSS LONDON,
43:26WHICH HAVE GONE FROM SMALL TO
43:27NOW.
43:27>> YEP.
43:28>> ON THE WEST END AGAIN.
43:30>> WE WENT FROM 80 SEATS TO 900
43:32IN THE APOLLO.
43:33AND AGAIN HERE IN THE GARRICK.
43:38IT'S BEEN CRAZY, RIGHT.
43:38>> IN A MINUTE, I'M GOING GET TO
43:41AUDIENCE REACTION.
43:41BUT I WANT TO ASK YOU FIRST THE
43:42ORIGIN STORY, SO TO SPEAK.
43:44I'VE READ THAT YOU WERE ON THE
43:49TUBE.
43:50TRAYVON MARTIN HAD BEEN KILLED
43:51IN THAT HORRIBLE STAND YOUR
43:52GROUND INCIDENT IN THE UNITED
43:53STATES.
43:53>> YEAH.
43:53>> AND YOU HEARD PEOPLE TALKING
43:55THAN AND ABOUT TRAYVON.
43:56WHAT DID YOU HEAR?
43:57>> THAT WAS A DISCUSSION WHERE
43:59WHAT WAS BEING SAID WAS HE WAS A
44:01YOUNG BLACK BOY IN THE HOOD.
44:04WHAT DO YOU EXPECT?
44:05>> IN A HOODIE?
44:05>> IN A HOODIE.
44:07WHAT DO YOU EXPECT?
44:08I REMEMBER THINKING I'M A YOUNG
44:10BLACK BOY AND I WEAR A HOODIE.
44:12IS THAT AN EXCUSE?
44:13IS THAT A REASON TO TAKE AWAY
44:15OUR LIVELIHOOD OR TO LOOK AT US
44:18AS LESSER THAN A HUMAN BEING?
44:20AND I THINK AT THAT TIME I HAD
44:22THIS IDEA WITH THIS PLACE WELL
44:24IN MY HEAD.
44:25BUT THAT WAS A MAJOR CATALYST
44:26FOR ME TO GO OKAY, I REALLY NEED
44:29TO START PUTTING PEN TO PAPER
44:30NOW BECAUSE THIS PLAY FELT
44:32URGENT IN THAT MOMENT.
44:33>> I WONDER WHAT YOU FELT IN
44:34THAT MOMENT APART FROM SHOCKED
44:35THAT PEOPLE WOULD SAY THAT, BUT
44:37WERE YOU ANGRY?
44:39BECAUSE I HEARD FOR YOU IT WAS
44:41LIKE EITHER YOU'RE GOING REACT
44:45BY PUNCHING.
44:45THE PEN OR THE SWORD.
44:46>> YEAH, FOR ME, IT WAS
44:49DISAPPOINTMENT.
44:49BUT I SUPPOSE IN MY HEART IT WAS
44:52SOMETHING THAT I RAILROAD KNEW.
44:53I THINK AT THAT PART IN MY LIFE
44:55I DID FEEL LIKE A SECOND OR
44:56THIRD CLASS CITIZEN.
44:57I DIDN'T FEEL LIE I HAD AN
44:59OPPORTUNITY TO EXPRESS MYSELF IN
45:00THE WAY I REALLY WANTED TO.
45:03IT WAS MIXTURE OF ALL THE THINGS
45:05THAT MADE ME GO HOME THAT NIGHT
45:06AND GO OKAY, I REALLY NEED TOE
45:08PUT THIS INTO ART RIGHT NOW.
45:09>> I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT A
45:11COUPLE OF THE CHARACTERS.
45:12ONE CHARACTER FEELS HE ISN'T
45:14BLACK ENOUGH.
45:15HE SAYS "I THOUGHT I NEEDED TO
45:15BLACK UP."
45:17WHAT DOES THAT MEAN TO YOU?
45:19>> OH, 100%.
45:20THIS IS WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT
45:22EARLIER IN TERMS OF IF YOU ARE
45:24FED A NARRATIVE OF WHAT A BLACK
45:25MAN IS SUPPOSED TO BE, AND THAT
45:27NARRATIVE COMES AT YOU EVERY
45:29SINGLE YEAR FOR YOUR WHOLE
45:30ENTIRE LIFE, THEN AT SOME POINT
45:31YOU GO IF I DON'T FIT INTO THAT
45:34BOX, THEN I'M NOT BLACK, RIGHT?
45:35AND YOU HAVE THIS HUGE IDENTITY
45:38CRISIS.
45:38IT COULD BE AS EARLY AS 9 OR 8
45:42YEARS OLD WHERE YOU GO I DON'T
45:43KNOW WHERE I FIT IN THERE.
45:45I JUST DON'T KNOW.
45:45I FEEL LIKE AS A SOCIETY, WE
45:49NEED TO ADDRESS THAT IN YOUNG
45:51PEOPLE.
45:51I DON'T THINK WE THINK THAT
45:52SOMEBODY THAT AGE CAN ACTUALLY
45:53BE HAVING A MASSIVE MELTDOWN AND
45:55CRISIS.
45:55BUT THAT'S WHAT MY CHARACTER IS
45:57HE IS GOING I'VE SEEN THESE
45:59DISTINCTIVE PICTURES OF
46:00BLACKNESS THAT NONE OF THEM
46:05OFFER ADIPOSE OF WHAT I AM OR
46:06WANT TO BE.
46:07>> AND THERE IS ANOTHER
46:09CHARACTER.
46:09SO MANY BLACK BOYS ARE ACTUALLY
46:10NERDY.
46:10>> YEAH.
46:11>> YOU WENT TO ENGINEERING
46:12SCHOOL.
46:12>> EXACTLY.
46:14IT'S ONE AND THE SAME THING IN
46:16TERMS OF YOU CAN BE THE BIGGEST
46:17NERD IN THE WORLD AND STILL
46:27AUTHENTICALLY BLACK.
46:28WHERE DO YOU DO TO?
46:30YOU CONTINUALLY FEEL LIKE YOU'RE
46:31NOT ENOUGH.
46:31SO I WAS OKAY, COOL.
46:34HOW MANY CAN GHAIF ME?
46:37BECAUSE I WANT TO EXPRESS AS
46:39MUCH AS POSSIBLE IN TWO HOURS.
46:40>> AND WHAT ABOUT PARENTS?
46:42>> THERE IS A LOT OF NARRATIVES
46:44THAT SPEAK ABOUT ABSENT
46:46FATHERHOOD.
46:46I FEEL LIKE THAT'S BEEN DONE AND
46:47DONE AND DONE AGAIN.
46:49I WANT TO TALK WHAT HAPPENS IF
46:50FATHERS ARE ACTUALLY IN THE
46:51HOUSE.
46:51WHAT HAPPENS IF FATHERS HAVEN'T
46:53HAD FATHERS.
46:54THAT IN ITSELF IS QUITE
46:56DIFFERENT R DIFFICULT.
46:56AND I WANT TO REALLY LOOK AT THE
46:58NUANCES OF FATHERHOOD THAT I'VE
47:00NEVER REALLY SEEN DEPICTED
47:04BEFORE, AND HOW CERTAIN PARENTS
47:05CAN GET IT WRONG, EVEN WHEN
47:06THEY'RE TRYING TO GET IT RIGHT.
47:08AND HOW THAT COULD LEAD TO
47:09SOMEBODY OR A YOUNG MAN HAVING
47:13TO DIE HIMSELF IN THAT PROCESS.
47:14SO THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO DO
47:16WITH THIS PLAY IS HAVE THAT
47:17NEGOTIATION.
47:18>> AND WHAT ABOUT YOU?
47:19BECAUSE YOU HAVE FOUR YOUNG
47:20KIDS.
47:20>> I HAVE FOUR YOUNG KIDS.
47:22>> YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.
47:23>> HOW IS PARENTHOOD IN THIS
47:24WORLD?
47:24>> IT'S DIFFICULT.
47:27IT'S AS DIFFICULT AS ANY PARENT
47:28ANYWHERE RIGHT NOW.
47:29WE'RE GOING THROUGH DIFFICULT
47:30TIMES.
47:30AND I'VE GOT FOUR YOUNG BOYS.
47:32THEIR JOURNEY AND THEIR LIFE IS
47:33VERY DIFFERENT.
47:34THEY GREW UP IN A DIFFERENT
47:37AREA, THEIR SCHOOL IS DIFFERENT
47:38THAN THE KIND OF SCHOOL I WENT
47:39TO.
47:39SO FOR ME IT'S MAKE SURE I GIVE
47:42THEM ENOUGH OF THE ROUGHNESS.
47:47I THINK EVERY DAY ME AND MY WIFE
47:48SAY EVERY DAY AS IT COMES, WE'RE
47:50LEARNING.
47:50>> YOU WERE ONE OF FIVE
47:54SIBLINGS.
47:54AND YOU SPEAK A LOT ABOUT MOTHER
47:57I THINK MOSTLY WAS THERE FOR
47:58YOU.
47:59HOW MUCH OF AN IMPACT, AND WHAT
48:01KIND OF AN IMPACT DID THAT HAVE
48:03ON YOU AND YOUR FAMILY?
48:04>> HUGE.
48:07FROM THE MAJORITY OF MY LIFE, MY
48:09MOM HAS BEEN MY BEST FRIEND AND
48:11THE CLOSEST PERSON TO ME.
48:12I THINK IT WAS REALLY
48:14INTERESTING.
48:14SHE WAS THE MATRIARCH IN THE
48:16HOUSE.
48:16BUT I THINK FOR HER, ESPECIALLY
48:17WHERE I GREW UP, IT WAS QUITE
48:21DANGEROUS TIME.
48:22AND, YOU KNOW, I FELT A LOT OF
48:24THE TIME ALMOST SUFFOCATED.
48:26AND I THINK NOW AS A PARENT, I
48:27CAN UNDERSTAND WHERE SHE WAS
48:28COMING FROM AND THE KIND OF
48:29THINGS THAT SHE COULD SEE THAT I
48:31COULDN'T SEE.
48:31AND ESSENTIALLY, YOU KNOW, AS
48:33FAR AS SHE WAS CONCERNED, HER
48:34JOB WAS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE
48:36WERE FED, THAT WE WERE CLOTHED
48:37AND THAT WE HAD AN EDUCATION.
48:40AND SHE EXCELLED.
48:41AND I FEEL LIKE THE KIND OF
48:42STUFF THAT SHE HAD TO GO
48:44THROUGH, YOU KNOW, AS A MOTHER,
48:47AS SOMEBODY WHO WAS WORKING TWO
48:48JOBS TO FEED US, ALLOWED ME AND
48:50MY SIBLINGS TO NOW GO AND HAVE
48:54THE CAREER THAT WE ARE HAVING.
48:56SO, YEAH, THAT'S MY MOM.
49:00>> WHAT HAVE YOU HEARD FROM
49:01AUDIENCES?
49:02AND WHAT'S BEEN THE MAKEUP OF
49:03THE AUDIENCES?
49:06>> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALMOST LIKE A
49:08CONCERT IN HERE.
49:09IT'S ELECTRIC.
49:10AND THERE IS A CERTAIN BEAUTY TO
49:12WITNESSING AUDIENCES WITNESS
49:14THEIR LIFE EXPERIENCES ON THE
49:14STAGE, YOU KNOW.
49:16AND HAVING A WHOLE ENTIRE
49:18EVENING THAT'S CATERED FOR THEM.
49:20FROM THE MOMENT THAT YOU COME IN
49:21AND YOU HAVE ALL THE MUSIC IS BY
49:25YOUNG BLACK ARTISTS, AND YOU
49:26COME IN ON THE STAGE AND YOU GO
49:28WOW, THIS IS UNLIKE ANY WESTERN
49:30EXPERIENCE EVER.
49:31I GREW UP IN A SPACE WHERE EVEN
49:32IF I WENT TO TAKE MY PHONE OUT,
49:35SOMEONE WOULD BE SHH, BE QUIET!
49:37WHERE YOU COME IN HERE AND
49:39EVERYBODY IS LAUGHING ON THE
49:40FLOOR, ROLLING AROUND.
49:41IT'S CRAZY.
49:41>> SO THAT'S ENCOURAGED.
49:43I REMEMBER THAT AT THE ROYAL
49:44COURT TOO.
49:45>> THAT IS THE KIND OF SPACE
49:46THAT I WANT TO WATCH THEREIN.
49:48YOU COME OUT, YOU SPENT YOUR
49:50MONEY, HAVE A GOOD TIME.
49:50AND THE MAKEUP TELEPHONE
49:52AUDIENCE A NEW DIORAMA.
49:55IT WAS MOSTLY I WOULD SAY ABOUT
49:581995 THAT SENT BLACK AUDIENCES
50:00WE WANT THIS SHOW.
50:01DON'T CARE ABOUT A REVIEW, WE
50:03WANT TO COME AND SEE IT.
50:05THE SHOW HAS GROWN.
50:06IT NOW HAS AN AUDIENCE FROM ALL
50:07WALKS OF LIFE.
50:08YEAH, IT'S FOR BLACK BOYS, WE
50:10WANT TO ALSO WANT TO COME AND
50:12SEE THIS PIECE OF ART THAT
50:13EVERYBODY IS SPEAKING ABOUT.
50:14>> THE GOVERNMENT ITSELF IS NOT
50:16DOING WHAT IT USED TO DO, WHICH
50:17IS REALLY POUR MONEY INTO ARTS.
50:21>> YEAH.
50:21>> AND WE CAN SEE THAT SOME OF
50:23THE BIG PLAYS ON THE WEST END
50:25ARE MOVIE STAR PLACE.
50:26>> YEAH, YEAH.
50:27>> SO THEY BRING IN HUGE ACTORS
50:29AND ACTRESSES.
50:29HERE YOU HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE
50:33UNKNOWN, AND IT'S A MASSIVE HIT.
50:34AND YOU'RE FILLING THE SEATS.
50:36>> YEAH.
50:37I FEEL LIKE LACK OF RESOURCES IS
50:39HITTING EVERYBODY TERRIBLY,
50:40ESPECIALLY THE SUBSIDIZED WHERE
50:42THERE IS LITERALLY CRUMBLE.
50:44CERTAIN PARTS OF THE COUNTRY,
50:46THEIR WHOLE ENTIRE FUNDING HAS
50:47BEEN CUT.
50:48SO IT IS A TIME WHERE AS A
50:50COMMUNITY, WE ARE ALL TRYING TO
50:51GATHER AROUND AND TOE HELP AND
50:53SUPPORT ONCE ANOTHER.
50:54AND I THINK IN TERMS OF THE WEST
50:56END, I MEAN, IT'S COMMERCIAL.
51:00GETTING BIG STARS IS PART OF THE
51:02HISTORY AND THE BLOOD OF WHAT
51:05COMMERCIAL THEATER IS.
51:06AND IT'S A TESTAMENT THAT THEY
51:10REALLY TOOK A PLAN ON US.
51:13WOULD YOU WANT TO RECAST AND GET
51:14SOME BIG NAMES.
51:15THERE IS SOMETHING ABOUT THIS
51:16PLAY THAT IS AUTHENTIC AND RAW,
51:19YOU KNOW.
51:20LIVE THE EXPERIENCE.
51:20NO.
51:21AND I REALLY, REALLY FOUGHT TO
51:23HAVE THESE YOUNG MEN IN THERE.
51:25AND NICO WAS LIKE YEAH, WE'RE
51:26GOING TO DO IT.
51:27LET'S SEE WHAT HAPPENS.
51:29>> AND THAT'S THE PRODUCER?
51:30THEY PRODUCE OTHER OF THE PLAY.
51:32NOW WE'RE IN A POSITION THAT
51:33MAKES SENSE.
51:35BUT BACK THEN.
51:36>> WHAT ABOUT THE YOUNG MEN?
51:38ARE THEY LONG-TERM ACTORS?
51:39WHAT HAS IT DONE FOR THEM?
51:41>> OH, MAN.
51:42SO THIS WE WENT TO OUR SECOND I
51:44KNOW.
51:45THE FIRST CAST WERE WHEN I MET
51:49ONE OF THEM, THEY WERE WORKING
51:50IN ANOTHER PLAY IN ANOTHER
51:52THEATER AS AN USHER.
51:52>> AS AN USHER?
51:54>> AS AN USHER.
51:55ONE OF THEM WAS A PAINTER.
51:56TWO OF THEM HAD JUST FINISHED
51:58SCHOOL.
51:58ONE OF THEM HAD GIVEN UP ACTING,
52:00AND THIS TIME AROUND WE'VE GOT
52:01ONE OF THE YOUNG MEN, SHAQUILLE
52:05WHO WAS AN USHER LAST YEAR.
52:07>> HOW DO YOU RECRUIT THEM?
52:08HOW DO YOU FIND THEM?
52:09>> IT'S AN OPEN CALL.
52:11WE HAVE A REALLY GREAT CASTING
52:13DIRECTOR.
52:13BUT IT'S ALSO A CASE OF I DON'T
52:14WANT TO -- IF YOU ARE YOUNG AND
52:16YOU ARE BLACK, YOU SHOULD HAVE
52:17AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE ABLE TO BE
52:18A PART OF THIS, BECAUSE THIS IS
52:20YOUR STORY, ESSENTIALLY.
52:21>> AND DO THEY WANT TO STAY IN
52:22IT, IN ACTING?
52:23>> OH, 100%, 100%.
52:25NOW THEY'RE WEST END STARS.
52:30>> THEIR HEADS ARE STILL ON
52:31THEIR SHOULDERS?
52:31>> THAT'S MY JOB.
52:32I MAKE SURE I KEEP THEM
52:34GROUNDED.
52:34>> LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT
52:37SOMETHING RED THROW GRADE ABOUT
52:40SIDNEY POITIER AND THE CIVIL
52:42RIGHTS MOVEMENT.
52:43>> THAT WAS REVIEWED INCREDIBLY
52:45HIGHLY, INCREDIBLE PERFORMANCE.
52:46IT CAME OUT AROUND THE SAME TIME
52:48AS "BLACK BOYS."
52:49IT WAS A REAL MOMENT FOR ME OF
52:51HAVING THESE TWO PLAYS IN THE
52:53WEST END.
52:53IT WAS LIFE-CHANGING.
52:55>> TELL ME ABOUT SIDNEY POITIER
52:58AND CIVIL RIGHTS.
52:58THIS IS VERY AMERICAN.
52:59>> YEAH.
53:02>> I'M INTERESTED IN ANYTHING I
53:02DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT.
53:04>> BUT YOU DO KNOW ABOUT CIVIL
53:05RIGHTS.
53:06>> I DO.
53:07I DO.
53:07BUT I DIDN'T KNOW A LOT ABOUT
53:09McCARTHYISM, RIGHT, AND THAT
53:10KIND OF CULTURE WHERE PEOPLE
53:12WERE LITERALLY HAVING THEIR
53:13CAREERS ENDED LIKE THAT.
53:15AND OKAY, THERE IS SOME
53:17SIMILARITIES WITH THAT AND
53:17WHAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW.
53:18AND THEN YOU HAVE THIS CHARACTER
53:21OR THIS HUMAN BEING OF SIDNEY
53:23POITIER WHO IN THE MIDST OF ALL
53:25OF THIS IS STANDING THERE AND
53:27GOING I HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION
53:28ABOUT MY INTEGRITY IF I'M GOING
53:31GET FURTHER ALONG IN MY CAREER.
53:33I READ THIS IN AN ARTICLE WHICH
53:35WAS JUST ABOUT HOW GREAT SYDNEY
53:37WAS.
53:37HOLD ON ONE SECOND.
53:39THIS IS A DRAMA RIGHT NOW.
53:40THIS IS A THRILLER, LITERALLY
53:41ABOUT FIVE LINES OF TEXT.
53:42LET ME SEE WHAT I CAN DO HERE.
53:45I FEEL A DIFFERENCE IN TWO PLAYS
53:47FOR ME WAS FOR "BLACK BOYS" LIVE
53:49THE EXPERIENCE.
53:50AT THE TIME RETROGRADE, I HAD
53:55NEVER BEEN TO NEW YORK.
53:56I DID ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF OF
53:58RESEARCH EVERY SINGLE DAY.
53:59I CAN'T AFFORD TO GET A SINGLE
54:01THING WRONG ABOUT THIS BECAUSE
54:03THIS IS SOMEBODY ELSE'S LIVED
54:05EXPERIENCE.
54:06I WAS SO NERVOUS PUTTING THE
54:07PLAY ON.
54:07>> I HOPE TO SEE IT BECAUSE I
54:10MISSED IT.
54:10BLACK BOYS, ARE YOU TAKING TO IT
54:12THE UNITED STATES, BROADWAY?
54:13>> LET'S SEE, LET'S SEE.
54:14YEAH, YEAH, CALL ME.
54:15CALL ME.
54:18>> RYAN CALAIS CAMERON, THANK
54:19YOU FOR BEING WITH US.
54:21>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
54:23>> "BLACK BOYS" IS AN AMAZING
54:26EXPERIENCE.
54:26AND NEAR LONDON DUE TO POPULAR
54:28DEMAND, ITS RUN HAS BEEN
54:29EXTENDED FOR AN EXTRA MONTH
54:31UNTIL JUNE 1.
54:32>>> AND FINALLY TONIGHT, AN
54:34INSPIRING IMMIGRANT STORY AS WE
54:35CELEBRATE THE LIFE OF MARTIN
54:37GREENFIELD, WHO WAS CONSIDERED
54:40AMERICA'S GREATEST GENTLE MAN'S
54:44TAILOR.
54:45GREENFIELD WAS SENT TO AUSCHWITZ
54:46AS A TEENAGER WHERE HIS FAMILY
54:48WAS KILLED.
54:48HE LEARNED TO SEW THERE AND
54:50CREDITS THOSE SKILLS WITH SAVING
54:52HIS LIFE.
54:52WHEN HE REACHED AMERICA,
54:54GREENFIELD WENT ON TO DRESS MANY
54:56PRESIDENTS, MOVIE STARS AND
54:57ATHLETES FROM HIS SHOP IN
54:57BROOKLYN.
55:00>> THE FIRST SUIT GOING BACK TO
55:05EISENHOWER, CLINTON, MAYOR
55:08BLOOMBERG, ED KOCH.
55:09THE BEST DRESSED PEOPLE ARE
55:10DRESSED BY ME.
55:13>> AND IN AN AMAZING TWIST OF
55:16HISTORY, YEARS BEFORE GREENFIELD
55:19DRESSED PRESIDENT EISENHOWER, HE
55:20FIRST ACTUALLY SAW GENERAL
55:23EISENHOWER TOURING A LIBERATED
55:26AUSCHWITZ IN 1945.
55:27MARTIN GREENFIELD DIED ON
55:29WEDNESDAY ON LONG ISLAND.
55:31HE WAS 95 YEARS OLD.
55:32THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM
55:33TONIGHT.
55:34IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT'S
55:35COMING UP ON THE SHOW EVERY
55:36NIGHT, SIGN UP FOR OUR
55:39NEWSLETTER AT PBS.ORG/AMANPOUR.
55:42THANKS FOR WATCHING AND GOOD
55:45NIGHT FROM LONDON.
55:47♪♪