Founder of social marketing agency Goodstuph, Pat Law, has no qualms letting her staff moonlight. They learn by doing something beyond work.
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NewsTranscript
00:00 We love hiring people with something on the side.
00:02 What else do you do beyond work?
00:05 If you tell me that you like cafe-hopping, I will never hire you.
00:08 You are too basic for me.
00:10 In 2010, Pat Law set up Good Stuff as an independent social marketing agency.
00:16 In the 14 years since, she has grown the award-winning agency to 180 people across five countries.
00:24 I'm Sumiko Tan, Executive Editor of The Straits Times.
00:27 I'm meeting Ms Law and her co-founders at the Coconut Club in Beach Road.
00:32 Eugenia Tan runs the Singapore office, Joshua Tan started the Jakarta branch,
00:38 and Jeremy Cha and Fahja Kurnia set up Good Stuff in Bangkok.
00:42 The five tell me that being too comfortable in what they do frightens them.
00:47 They also share how they keep their creative juices flowing.
00:51 [Music]
01:03 Why did you decide to go to Indonesia and Thailand?
01:07 That realization that Singapore was too small a market probably came in year five of Good Stuff.
01:13 We were at a point where we were doing very well,
01:16 but I personally got very terrified with being too comfortable.
01:22 Because that is dangerous when it comes to creativity.
01:25 And we thought, "Okay, let's try to go into Jakarta."
01:28 And I really did see it as,
01:31 "Go in there, you're going to get the education of a lifetime that money cannot buy."
01:35 Three, four years down the road, we got comfortable and confident about Jakarta.
01:40 We knew that actually it's possible for us to expand beyond Singapore and do it well.
01:46 So then we went into Bangkok.
01:48 Do you use Good Stuff in all the territories, markets you're in?
01:52 Yes, we do actually.
01:53 There is a translation for it.
01:55 I think in Thailand, we have the Thai version, like the Thai letters of Good Stuff.
01:59 So it reads Good Stuff.
02:01 In Indonesia, it's the same.
02:02 We translated it to Bahasa Indonesia, but we just use Good Stuff.
02:06 And Pat, you came up with the name.
02:08 Yes, unfortunately I did back in 2010.
02:11 The name came about as the goal that we want for all our campaigns.
02:17 If you had seen a campaign and you liked it, first reaction should be Good Stuff.
02:21 I spelt it differently because the original spelling was not available
02:26 for purchase as a domain name.
02:28 Well, it was.
02:30 I had to pay a lot of money and I refused to pay that kind of money.
02:33 So I spelt it differently.
02:35 Although now looking back, it's one of those things like a bad haircut that I regret.
02:40 Shall we change it again?
02:44 What was the most difficult thing opening in Jakarta?
02:47 Of course, the culture shock was one factor.
02:50 I am a Drone West boy all my life.
02:53 Never worked or lived overseas for an extended period of time.
02:58 Learning to have empathy for the local customs, learning to find what motivates my staff was
03:07 my homework during the first two years at least.
03:11 As with all things, over time you kind of grow used to it, you adapt.
03:17 What was difficult about setting up in Bangkok?
03:20 It's not too different from Josh actually, but I think the first one was because we didn't partner
03:24 any locals, right?
03:26 I think recruitment, I think it was a tough one.
03:28 I think Good Stuff was very well known, I think in Singapore, but outside of Singapore,
03:32 back then in Thailand, it was quite unknown, right?
03:35 So we are asking people, do you want to join us?
03:38 We are a two-man agency.
03:40 Do you want to leave your job and join us?
03:41 It is very hard.
03:42 In the first few weeks, we interviewed so many people and we almost like asked them,
03:47 begged them, like, come with us.
03:48 It'd be a nice ride, right?
03:50 But it was not that easy.
03:52 A lot of them actually told us, I think you shouldn't do this.
03:54 But of course, when people said it to us, we were like, we are doing this.
04:00 So we kept our heads down and we managed to find people,
04:02 we managed to convince people who want to join us, convince clients to work with us.
04:06 There was one big kind of curveball for us, which was COVID.
04:09 We went there and Fajar had kind of renovated the office.
04:14 We're like, let's open our doors.
04:16 And one week later, we had to close our doors because of COVID.
04:20 Because we're such a people business, like it's so nice being in the same office together,
04:24 working together, kind of talking to each other.
04:26 The fact that we had to do it remotely was tough.
04:29 I think it was tough for everybody, but especially for us, because new country,
04:35 completely new experience, begging people to join us.
04:38 And then COVID started.
04:40 What do you think is like the key strength of Good Stuff?
04:42 I think Good Stuff is very unique because we don't just see ourselves as just a Singapore brand.
04:49 We see ourselves almost as a Southeast Asian brand.
04:52 And because of that, we believe a lot in diversity.
04:56 So at any point of time, even if I have a Singapore project,
05:00 I'm able to reach out to Fajar, Jeremy, or even Joshua
05:03 to be able to pull together the kind of skill sets and resources we need.
05:07 And to expand on that, when we talk about diversity,
05:10 we love hiring people with something on the side.
05:13 What else do you do beyond work?
05:15 If you tell me that you like cafe hopping, I will never hire you.
05:19 You're too basic for me.
05:20 We do encourage people to moonlight, so long as it's not a conflict client, clearly.
05:26 Because you learn so much more when you're doing something beyond work.
05:30 Stuff like that, that keeps us very interesting.
05:33 How do you all keep creative?
05:34 I think curiosity is super important.
05:38 Not knowing what the solution is at any point is a good start.
05:43 Like a blank page might be super scary,
05:45 but if you're curious to find out more about what the problem is,
05:49 what the possible solutions are,
05:50 I think that actually is a great weapon to have with anybody.
05:55 Whether you're creative or whether you're an accounts person,
05:58 whether you're a strategist, if you are curious, I think that keeps you creative.
06:02 I try to consume as much as possible things that I don't know.
06:05 So I think that has helped quite a lot as well.
06:08 Like learn new things, especially things that are related to advertising.
06:13 And I think within Good Stuff itself,
06:15 we're constantly in a space where there are new inputs coming in.
06:18 So whether it be like working with colleagues from Thailand that have a different culture,
06:22 or working with colleagues in Indonesia that
06:24 completely have a different insight to the same problem itself,
06:28 that makes us curious, that makes us think about how things can be done differently.
06:33 One thing I remind my team is to remember to have fun.
06:37 I mean, ever since the pandemic lifted, everybody's coming back to office.
06:40 You kind of get back into the same daily grind.
06:43 So if you're not having fun creating the work, your clients will kind of feel it.
06:48 So I have a weekly goal.
06:50 I need to come up with one idea per week, even if I'm not using the idea for work,
06:54 just to keep the brain going in that direction.
06:58 We put in a lot of effort to make sure that our people don't stop having fun.
07:03 They don't stop thinking.
07:04 So the very last initiative we did was for an instant noodle pop-up event.
07:09 Everyone asked, "Eh, for what ah?"
07:11 Like that long?
07:13 Just because.
07:14 And because it is fun.
07:15 And more importantly, you're bringing together all your young creators from different markets
07:22 into the same meeting, pitching ideas, and knowing what you're up against.
07:28 And being inspired, being intimidated maybe.
07:31 Friendly rivalry, that's important for creativity.
07:33 God forbid we become an agency that waits for a brief to come and just answer it.
07:38 A client will always appreciate it when we are going, "Hey, can we do it this way?"
07:43 And to keep that, it's effort.
07:46 Okay, thanks very much for having lunch.
07:50 Thank you.
07:51 Thank you so much.
07:52 In the last 13 years of joining Armstrong,
07:54 I never thought that with my personality and character,
07:58 I could learn to love what I didn't like.
08:02 I still do not like foam.