Retired UP professor Miriam Coronel-Ferrer won the Ramon Magsaysay Award for shepherding a peace deal between the Philippine government and the Moro Islamic Liberation Front, recognizing her as “the first female Chief Negotiator in the world to sign a final peace accord with a rebel group.”
Ferrer explains how she remained focused despite the Mamasapano massacre in 2015 which nearly derailed the peace process. She shares insights on how to get opposing forces to talk seriously about peace, referring also to ongoing conflicts in the Philippines and the Middle East.
She recalls the lessons of growing up with a famous lawyer-father, Antonio Coronel, who had clients and friends on the opposite side of the political fence as his activist-children.
Ferrer explains how she remained focused despite the Mamasapano massacre in 2015 which nearly derailed the peace process. She shares insights on how to get opposing forces to talk seriously about peace, referring also to ongoing conflicts in the Philippines and the Middle East.
She recalls the lessons of growing up with a famous lawyer-father, Antonio Coronel, who had clients and friends on the opposite side of the political fence as his activist-children.
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00:00 Good day, Podmates! Howie Severino here again reminding you that a long attention span is a gift of wisdom.
00:07 Our guest today is Professor Miriam Coronel Ferrer, the newest Ramon Magsaysay awardee from the Philippines for her work as peace negotiator.
00:17 And she was the first female chief negotiator in the world to sign a final peace accord with the rebel group.
00:25 The 2014 Comprehensive Agreement on the Bangsa Moro with the Moro Islamic Liberation Front, which I will be referring to later as the MILF.
00:35 Magandang araw sayo, Professor Ferrer. Congratulations on your award and the landmark achievement of the peace accord with the MILF.
00:43 Yes, and actually, thank you very much, Howie, and maraming salamat to be one of your guests in your podcast series.
00:52 We're actually celebrating, marking the 10th year of the signing of the Comprehensive Agreement on the Bangsa Moro on March 27.
01:02 So that's a landmark.
01:03 It's coming up.
01:04 Maski naging mabagal talaga yung implementation. Alam naman natin, napasa yung batas to create the new Bangsa Moro autonomous government only four years after we signed the agreement.
01:21 Medyo mabagal yun, but at least so far, this infrastructure is in place at inabanga natin yung magiging regular election sa 2025.
01:34 So dito sa pag-aabang mo, are you involved in an official way or are you more of an observer or are you advising on any part of the process so far?
01:48 Wala akong official designation ever since. As you know, dalawang presidente na yung nakaraan mula nung termino ni President Simeon Benigno Aquino III, the late Pinoy.
02:01 But somehow naman, maski pa pano, nakakausap ko sila, nakakausap ko yung government panel ngayon.
02:08 Nagtatanong sila tungkol sa ano ba talaga yung napag-usapan. Kasi alam naman natin, pagdating sa implementation, marami pa rin negosyasyon yan eh kung pa pano talaga i-implement.
02:19 So ganun lang, informal capacity. Mas abala ako ngayon sa iba't iba pang mga lugar kung saan may pagsisikap din na magkaroon ng peace process.
02:31 Magtatanong ako tungkol sa iyong iba't iba't activities. I know you've been very busy even if you've officially retired as a UP professor.
02:40 Gusto ko lang magtanong tungkol dito sa sinasabi mong madyo mabagal yung implementation.
02:45 Yung pinirmahan nga nung 2014, it was a comprehensive agreement but it was also considered a peace accord, it's a peace deal.
02:55 So basic tanong dyan is has there really been peace? Tumigil talaga yung labanan, di nagbabakbakan yung government military forces at saka yung MILF.
03:11 Kung sa pagitan ng dalawang partido definitely wala tayong major confrontation. Meron tayong mga incidents, killings na nangyari in the course of criminal interdiction activities ng police.
03:28 May nadadawit dyan na MILF member, combatant halimbawa. At saka meron din mga nabalita na nakaraan pero yung talagang bakbakan kung saan ay libo-libo, daan-libong mga taong nagdi-displace.
03:44 Hindi pa hindi yan nangyari, nangyari yan dati sa panuhin ni President Erap Estrada at saka nung nag-breakdown yung talks nung dinawin ng Supreme Court yung Memorandum of Agreement on Ancestral Domain.
04:01 So, taas-taas ng ranking natin dun sa bilang ng internally displaced people sa buong mundo. Tapos siyempre may iba pa rin kaguluhan, there's the conflict with the other armed groups na iba na yung ideologya.
04:18 Yung tinatawag natin, siguro violent extremist groups, sometimes tinatawag silang jihadist movements na may iba-iba ng ideologya kaya nakita natin yung nangyari sa Marawi.
04:29 Pero sa trahedya na nangyari sa Marawi, hindi kasama doon ng MLF, sa katunayan tumulong pa nga sila sa pag-release ng mga hostages. Tumulong sila kasama ang government sa pag-devise ng ways and means na masave yung ibang mga civilians na na-trap dito.
04:50 So, yung nangyari sa Marawi, I went there three times to cover the conflict and also the aftermath. A year after, bumalik ako. So, it was a reminder na kahit nagkaroon ng peace deal with the MLF, marami pa rin conflict sa Mindanao which have not been addressed.
05:14 Gusto ko balikan itong MLF. While you were still working in the government, correct me if any of these facts are wrong, nagkaroon na ng ceasefire agreement and then there was a signing of the Comprehensive Peace Accord.
05:33 Nangyari naman yung Mama sa Pano in 2015 which almost ruined everything, which almost ruined much of your work, the government's work for peace. So, can you bring us back to that time? Nabanggit mo yung naganap ng panahon ni President Estrada but even more recently yung Mama sa Pano.
05:57 We know that it was a very difficult time for people like yourself because of course you were working towards peace but there are many others in the government who were no longer interested in peace because of the Mama sa Pano massacre.
06:11 Kaya nga na-delay yung pagpasan ng batas. Kasi yung public opinion, election year yung 2016, 2015 yung Mama sa Pano. So, siyempre ayaw ng mga legislators na mantagonize yung kanilang constituency.
06:33 But still, nung pumasok si President Duterte, nakita rin naman niya maski pa pano yung value ni yung peace deal na 'to na ihinto mo yung labanan sa pinaka-malaking, pinaka-organizadong group.
06:46 Talking about 40,000 combatants concentrated in a defined territory. Kakaiba yan sa CPP-NPA na dispersed sila in small platoons. Pero ito talagang nandun sila sa kanilang sariling kinagisnaan na lupa.
07:03 So, yun yung malaking difference dito. Kaya nga sinasabi natin noon, ipasan natin 'to kasi mas maraming sasali. You will radicalize the others who have lost hope in a peaceful political process in reforms that you can do through legislative reform,
07:22 constitutional reform, atsaka power-sharing arrangements to really democratize and to allow for inclusion of other excluded groups historically. So, ganoon yung ano natin.
07:36 Unfortunately, na-delay yan. Kaya nga itong nangyari sa Marawi, mayroon pang president events, yung siege ng butig municipality ng DAWA-ISM, yung Mauter Brothers, nagsisignal na yan na medyo meron na talagang bumigay dito sa more moderate track...
08:03 ... na nationalist, ethno-nationalist yung goal nila. Yung BIFF na humiwala rin noong 2010 right after yung MOA-AD na 2008, hindi na nga nahabol yan. Sinubukan rin kabulin.
08:19 So, kung nagtagal pa itong process na 'to kung hindi natin ito na-achieve noong 2014 at the crucial time na lumalakas yung from Al-Qaeda to ISIS, talagang baka mas maraming grupo pa, mas maraming pang individuals to go the more radical way.
08:38 Iba ng agenda. Agenda global world order, world view ang kine-question nila. Hindi lamang yung something that's really confined within our own capabilities to address as a republic made up of different constituencies.
09:00 What you're saying now sounds very sensible. But in 2015, it was a very emotional time and sometimes during very emotional times. After all, yung gobyerno na matayan ng SAC 44. They were considered heroes at that time.
09:16 There was a lot of pressure to resume fighting and just to disregard the peace process. Pero noon, you were one of the voices saying, "No, no, let's stay the course." Obviously, there was a bigger picture which you just described.
09:35 But everyone recalls, well, we recall, people were very emotional at that time. How did you navigate that? Was your gender ever an issue? Were these people calling for resumption of fighting or to give up the peace process?
09:57 Like questioning you, questioning you for being soft on the MILF, etc. How difficult was it for you?
10:06 Any woman put in the public sphere or public space gets all of these sexist remarks. That's true for everyone. Maski presidente ka, prime minister ka, lahat sila naranasan nila yan. Kine-criticize ka, hindi lamang sa…
10:23 Halimbawa, dahil hindi sila nag-a-agree sa position mo, pero dahil sa pagiging babae mo, usually lumalabas talaga yung biases dyan. Mahina ka, you're a weak negotiator, or yung sleeping with the enemy, yung ganyang mga sexist comments.
10:41 Pero noong time na yun, nakikita natin may technicalities talaga itong process na ito. Venialate ng staff ni General Peñas sa pagpraplano niya yung very basic ceasefire protocols natin,
10:58 which is basically to inform the military beforehand na meron silang gagawing ganitong operation. Kaya nga pati yung rescue operation ng military nung na-trap na sila.
11:08 Last minute, tumawag lang siya to inform the military na meron nang na-trap dito sa dalawang lugar. Ito yung sa 44, tapos sa kabila kung saan talaga yung actual operation.
11:20 Remember that operation was precisely against yung CIMAR-1, yung violent extremist groups. So nakikita natin ang naging tension talaga dun ay yung primary aim na huliin itong CIMAR-1 dun sa bigger peace process.
11:36 And unfortunately ang sinacrifice dun sa implementation ay yung malaking process. Kasi anybody who has done anything in Mindanao know na hindi yan typical operation given the multiplicity of armed groups residing in any one community,
11:55 yung fluidity ng movements nila and the difficult terrain na advantage talaga nila. Kasi alam nila yung terrain na yan. Bakit na-trap sa maputik na ilog yung ating sa 44?
12:11 At bakit gising na yung mga tao ng 4 o'clock ng umaga? Kasi gising na sila dahil magdadasal sila ng maaga. Bakit pag may narinig silang putukan, lahat silang impulse nila ay hawakan ng kanilang baril?
12:25 Dahil kera yan, alam nila na itong buong buhay nila ang feeling nila besieged sila lagi ng mga outsiders at kasama na dyan yung security forces ng Philippine government. So ganun yung buong context, specific context.
12:43 Pero masasabi natin sa buong mundo may tension talaga between counter-terrorism at saka itong isang alternative path which is peaceful political settlement of the different armed conflicts.
13:01 So ganun yun, medyo mahirap ipaliwanag na besieged talaga si Pinoy dati dun. Bumagsak yung kanyang popularity rating. Pero ang masasabi ko kay Pinoy, he stayed the course. Naniniwala siya talaga dito sa wisdom nito.
13:17 At maganda naman na nakita rin ng mga susunod na presidente ang wisdom ng pagkaroon ng ganitong peace agreement with the Moro Islamic Liberation Front.
13:27 I want to pivot a bit and ask you about the New People's Army naman. Kasi that's an ongoing conflict, hindi pa nar-resolve. There's an off and on peace process.
13:39 There was some news a while, some months ago that i-re-resume yung peace process with the NPA. You've been involved in successful peace negotiations with another armed group, the MILF. Any lessons for this particular, this other conflict which is lasted even longer?
14:00 The communist insurgency natin sa Pilipinas? Importante talaga yung back-channeling muna. Bago ka talaga umupo sa lamesa. Lalo na ngayon may contradiction sa loob ng bawat partido sa CPP, NPA, NDF.
14:19 Hindi talaga natin alam kung saan na yung center of gravity nila in terms of political leadership or decision-making. Kailangan mo talaga hanapin yan atsaka makipag-usap sa kanila para sila mismo ma-consolidate yung position nila.
14:36 Sa AFP, mayroon kan dual track na nangyayari. Andyan pa rin yung NTF, yung national task force against the communist insurgency na still doing some of the old ways which is really through yung extrajudicial approaches including killings, and the regular anti-insurgency operations ng military.
15:03 But on the one hand mayroon ka supposedly distract. So there's still need really for each party to consolidate yung kanilang approach on all of these. Otherwise you will keep getting these mixed signals and it's not helping the process.
15:18 One party loses trust increasingly against the other party kasi mixed signals ang nagagaling sa isa't-isa. And yung distrust reinforces distrust. Tapos yung public also loses trust in any political process kasi yung public importante dito eh.
15:38 So it's important for them to believe that something can happen in this process positively so that they can put on their pressure as well dito sa the negotiating parties. So marami ka pang preparatory work before you really plunge into yung formal sitting down process.
16:00 So it's important kayo mag-usap. Pero yung talagang maging tuloy-tuloy yan, kailangan mamanage din nila yung sarili-sarili, yung sarili nila mga organization.
16:13 I want to ask you about one of your international endeavors. Kasi nabanggit mo sa ibang interview that you've been involved in a dialogue between Israelis and Palestinians in Jerusalem.
16:33 Of course, that's an ongoing conflict right now. And we know that in recent months, there's been a severe global backlash against Israel for its military actions in Gaza, which is still ongoing.
16:54 But if you talk to the pro-Israel side, including the Israeli embassy here in Manila, they will show you videos of what Hamas did in Israel back in October.
17:07 Kind of saying, "Ginawa ito ng Hamas sa Gaza." So we don't have any choice. This is a kind of a survival for us. But of course, what they're doing is being opposed by a lot of peace advocates.
17:24 So in retrospect, from your point of view, how should Israel have responded to the Hamas attack on their civilian communities inside Israel?
17:38 One is, if you have hostages, how do you negotiate the release of your hostages? Imagine na lang kung ang situation, may hostages ka, do you really bomb the whole place to release your hostages?
17:55 In fact, you're endangering your own hostages. Nakita nga natin, mayroon ng mga unfortunate incidents na nangyari where Israeli soldiers actually killed two hostages.
18:07 Tas if flash out may tunnel, lalagyan mo ng seawater, eh kung nasa tunnel yung hostages mo.
18:14 It's so apparent now that there's a contradiction between the approach that Israel is doing, dun sa supposedly primary aim to release the hostages.
18:25 Even the families of the hostages are angry with Netanyahu dahil nga precisely. Hindi naman yun yung nagiging primary consideration dun sa war track ng Israel.
18:40 Second, it happened because there are clear security issues being faced by both sides. Israel wants to exist as a state. Palestine no longer wants to be under an occupation and wants to recover, based on international law, yung kanilang homeland.
19:02 So that's the bigger problem. At the end of the day, hindi naman 'to issue between the hostages and the political prisoners na ang dami-dami na in the last few months, lalong dumami pa yung political prisoners na Palestinians.
19:16 And not about Gaza, but also in the West Bank where this occupation is really moving forward, taking advantage of the war in Gaza. Yung mga settlers na nagdi-displace pa ng maraming Palestinians sa kanilang, yung mga fields nila where they raise their ship.
19:37 I think it's even in the news the last few days. So yun yung issue dito. It's the bigger question of how can the two states really peacefully coexist.
19:48 And then papasok ko sa usapin ng boundaries which we experience in the case of the MLF. Kung magkakaroon ka ng bansa Moro autonomous government, alin-alin ang mga kasama dyan.
19:59 May tension between those nag-iba na yung demographics, naging majority non-Moro na. So ganun din sa issue sa Israel and Palestine.
20:08 Papano yun kung may settlements ka na dyan, yung dating territory na under the 1967 deal, wala na bawasan na ng gusto dahil inoccupied na nga ng Israel.
20:21 So it's going to be tough in terms of defining all of these things for the coexistence of two states, yung Palestinian and Israel.
20:31 But that's the only way you can really find the finish to this. For the longest time, nakalimutan na ng international community yung ganun klaseng resolution.
20:41 Napunta siya sa back burner and then at the same time nagpatuloy yung expansion ng Israel sa kanilang settlement.
20:50 And then you have this situation now. How do you end it? You really have to stop the war, address the humanitarian situation,
20:59 deal with the hostages and the political prisoners and move on to address the real political settlement between the two.
21:08 So there's no other way. Mananalo ba ang Israel dito sa gera nila? Ma-occupy ba nila talaga yung buong kasa?
21:17 Parang hindi rin mangyayari. Hindi rin papayag ang international community. Even the US is saying we will not support your invasion of Rafa.
21:27 But now the US sees that it cannot even control Israel.
21:32 I want to bring the conversation now closer to home. I mean literally your home, your family life.
21:44 In a recent interview, you talked about your father, the late Dean Antonio Coronel, who was a prominent criminal lawyer for decades.
21:59 And you talked about the time he convened a family meeting to talk about taking on a new client.
22:10 His taking on a new client who was General Fabian Ver, who was then very close to then President Marcos,
22:18 whom you as a young activist and other members of your family, presumably including Sheila Coronel, your sister.
22:29 So you talked about learning important lessons then. Kasi your father was lawyering for the other side, kumbaga.
22:40 Take us back to that time. Walk us through that disagreement because many families now are going through similar political disagreements.
22:56 The last presidential election divided many families who voted differently, who sided with different camps.
23:04 And it was a very emotional election. It probably will not be the last time we'll have an emotional political episode that will be divisive.
23:16 So tell us how that was handled between you and your family and your father.
23:25 Well, we were students at the University of the Philippines at the time. My sister and I and even several cousins who were living at home.
23:33 And basically all of us became activists. The whole clan on my mother's side were all my cousins.
23:41 We were all active in the movement against the dictatorship at the time.
23:46 But what I saw was how other families were treating their children who chose to be politically active.
23:54 I have friends who were really terrorized by their parents to stop their activism.
24:01 Iba, kun ni kwento nila pa paano sila kinukulong sa bahay, paano sila basically halos tinatali para hindi makalabas.
24:11 One good friend was whisked off to the United States just to take him out of the very dangerous situation for being politically active.
24:23 But our parents allowed that. They knew we had people coming to the house, eating, staying on, meeting the whole night.
24:34 Doon sa library ng tatay ko noon because he had his law office at home attached to our house.
24:41 We would all be huddled there all through the night just discussing and doing some of our stuff.
24:47 They allowed this. Pinabayaan nila kami na we were working the collegian every Friday overnight kami sa Liwayway Press sa Quiapo.
24:59 So pagdating doon sa personal choices, I think basically in-ingrained samin yung a very liberal framework.
25:09 You can think freely, you do freely, you aim for what you want to be freely.
25:15 I didn't feel at the time that I was in a position to tell my father given what he wanted to do for himself as a professional lawyer.
25:29 My father was offered the job by Marcos but he refused it because he did not see himself really being part of any government.
25:39 Ang talagang profession niya is to be a lawyer and to excel in it. Lalo na sa interrogations, I think he was well known for how effective he was in cross-examination.
25:54 Eventually, he even cross-examined Cory Aquino in the case against Louis Beltran.
26:00 When Louis Beltran wrote in his column during the '87 coup, which one was that?
26:08 Cory hid under the bed and Cory was so incensed. She pointed out that there's no under the bed.
26:16 There's a picture in the newspaper where the bed actually was covered by wood.
26:21 I remember.
26:23 Louis Beltran was a friend of my father. They come over to our house, have breakfast. Many people, even Si Burgos.
26:33 Joe Burgos of Malaya.
26:36 Yes, we grew up with all sorts of guests in our house. Some of them becoming anti-Marcos, some of them very, very pro-Marcos.
26:46 That was the atmosphere when we were growing up. Some of them criminal clients of my father's lawyer. Mahirap sabihin yung criminal law lawyer ko.
27:02 In any case, we saw all these kinds of people when we were growing up and they sort of welcomed into the house. Our parents welcomed our friends too.
27:15 So when the time came when he was asked to defend General Ver, of course, General Olivas was a friend of the family.
27:22 The whole family is a friend of ours. They lived in the neighborhood. We played with their children when we were young.
27:31 But yeah, so for me at that time, he had to make the choice himself and I knew he wanted it.
27:40 And he allowed me to do what I wanted to do and I could not stop him from also performing, which he liked to do as a lawyer in the courts.
27:56 Now you are a parent and a grandparent. How do you navigate or negotiate political disagreements within your own family?
28:08 I know you have voting age grandchildren now. I saw her in the video.
28:13 I have a granddaughter who's in college and I have three others na ganoon different ages.
28:22 And of course, my children are all grown up, but probably their overexposure into politics sort of like made them backtrack a little bit on politics.
28:33 Insofar as my children are concerned, my daughter is a forensic scientist at the Commission on Human Rights,
28:40 but it's something that she does as a very technical job, not something political, which probably is what you need in terms of a very independent investigation.
28:52 So otherwise, I used to think, how could they have let us do what we did?
29:01 Nung bata kami, nung naging parent ka na, parang you wanted to be a little bit stricter, di ba?
29:08 Is it because the times have changed? Criminality has increased?
29:11 Pero dati we were driving our yellow car, si Sheila and I, magpapalitan kami sa panggamit.
29:19 We were almost everywhere, going to different places during that time.
29:24 So parang we were given the freedom and I'd like to say we handled our freedom well.
29:31 As a parent, you fear that that freedom will not be handled well by your children.
29:36 So you had to sort of temper yourself also. And they're fine. They're fine.
29:44 Iba na lang talagayin yung kanilang orientation ngayon, but I tried to bring them in into some activities.
29:52 I exposed my granddaughter, the eldest one, she stayed in Cambodia for some time to help out in the Peace Museum.
30:01 Because in a way, very sheltered na rin yung kanilang upbringing.
30:06 So you need to push them out of their comfort zones as well.
30:11 Gusto ko nabalikan yung sinabi mo na pagbabae ka, in whatever position, wherever you are,
30:16 talaga kikwestionin yung iyong strength.
30:22 So it was a risk for President Aquino to appoint you to the Peace Panel in the first place,
30:31 and then naging chief ka eventually. Naging usapin ba yung iyong gender?
30:38 Yes. But Pinoy will be the last person to question yung capability ng isang babae.
30:44 After all, President Cory Aquino was our first Philippine woman president na rarity talaga sa buong mundo.
30:53 The United States has never had a woman president.
30:58 Ngayon na lang dumadami yung mga prime ministers, alibawa sa Western Europe.
31:04 Pero otherwise, talagang rarity yan. So he will be the last person to think that you will not be capable of doing this because babae ka.
31:13 But he was looking at it from the perspective of the other side, which is an Islamic group.
31:19 Kung baga, more conservative pagdating sa usapin ng kababae, ng gender.
31:27 So he made initial hesitation on that count.
31:34 Sinabi niya yan, "I'm not against women, but yung kapila ba, handa."
31:40 In the end, of course, he was convinced by Presidential Peace Advisor Teresita Quintos-Deles na kaya ito.
31:52 Matagal na nga naman natin itong pinag-aaralan atsaka sinusubaybayan.
31:57 He took the risk.
31:59 Ang maganda talaga sa Armed Forces of the Philippines natin, mas na-ingrain talaga yung professionalism atsaka civilian supremacy.
32:08 Relatively speaking sa buong mundo.
32:11 Makikita natin na nakadaan na sila sa dalawang babaeng presidente.
32:16 Si Gloria Aquino, Gloria Arroyo served as the commander-in-chief during their tenure as president.
32:25 So nakita natin yang full respect.
32:27 And the AFP also acknowledged, has already seen the benefit of the ceasefire.
32:33 Ang problema namin yung police.
32:35 Yung police talaga.
32:37 Kasi alam natin mas mahirap ang ayusin to fix the police institution, lalo na coming from the previous president na talagang nabigyan sila ng impunity and all.
32:50 Napakahirap na i-professionalize yan ulit. Ibalik on track na may respect for the rule of law.
32:58 May atsaka yung basic efficiency.
33:03 So yung police was really more of a problem because they felt nakukompromise yung kanilang operations.
33:14 Yung tinatawag na criminal interdiction dahil sa ceasefire.
33:17 Yung ceasefire kasi required at the last minute warning the MILF na huwag kayong kikilos at hindi kayo yung tinatarget diyan.
33:27 Ang tinatarget diyan ay maski hindi sasabihin kung sino, mas sabihin lang may pupunta diyan mga police huwag kayong kikilos, huwag kayong maabala.
33:37 Nung bin-bypass yun, many times, hindi lang Mama Sapano but Mama Sapano was the big one kasi ang dami talaga ang police na namatay.
33:46 Every time bin-bypass yan, they get into trouble.
33:50 Ang mag-extricate sa kanila yung ceasefire committee natin which is made up of the Armed Forces of the Philippines at pati na yung counterpart nila sa MILF.
34:06 Kasi pag nagputukan na yan, lahat yan, yung pintakasi na tinatawag, maglalabasan lahat yan basta may narinig na putukan titignan ano ba ito.
34:16 Tapos mag may nakita yan na medyo naka-uniforme, ito yung kalaban.
34:21 Hindi lamang MILF pati yung ibang grupo, pati yung mga private armed groups diyan ng mga politician.
34:28 So yan yung naging problema natin.
34:32 Kaya marami kami ginawang session sa police pero ang hirap talaga ipaliwanag sa kanila, magpaliwanag na ganito yung protocol.
34:41 Tapos dahil may direct experience nila ng violence, ang lakas talaga ng bias nila against Muslims.
34:49 May isang forum datandaan ko na mini-meeting namin yung iba't ibang commands ng police sa Mindanao para explain ano ba itong peace process na ito.
34:59 May tumayu talaga, nakikwento niya yung buong history ng violence na dinanas ng pamilya nila.
35:06 Laban dun sa mga indigenous communities na mga Muslim. So ganun talaga katindi.
35:14 Ang nasabi ko talaga nun, sa kwento mong yan mayroon din kwento yung kabila ng violence na naranasan naman nila.
35:23 So saan tayo pupunta? Magpapataya na lang ba?
35:26 Lagi o hinto na natin ito, baguhin natin yung kwento. Yung kwento ng bawat isa.
35:31 Pero at that time, hindi ko siya talaga na-convince na bakit kailangan ihinto natin itong prejudice, yung cycle of violence na nangyari.
35:41 On the ground level, hindi necessarily between just the two armed groups, yung police atsaka government but within communities.
35:52 Sa ngayon, maski na hindi nagbabakbakan, nakita natin marami pa rin sources of violence sa loob ng lipunan.
36:01 Yung tinatawag natin horizontal violence within society itself.
36:06 Kasi talagang hindi mong matitigil niyang competition over lupa, over elections etc.
36:13 Pero ang end all goal natin diyan ay hindi idaan sa barel ang pag-resolve ng conflict.
36:18 Idaan sa tamang proseso.
36:22 So dito sa mga proseso na ito, your interactions with these armed groups, was being a woman ever an advantage?
36:32 Or are there advantages to being a woman?
36:35 You mean armed groups na MILF?
36:37 Well let's start with the MILF.
36:39 I think naman kasi makikita kung sa police, ilang session na yon yung kunento ko.
36:49 Dinadaan natin sa reason, sa rationality.
36:53 Kasi gusto natin lumawak yung pag-iisip nila kung paano talaga titignan itong mahabang problema natin sa ating mga kapatid na Moro.
37:03 Pero nung bandang huli yung kasama kong general na kabahagi ng aming team, sinabi lang niya sa kanila, "Ito yung order ng Presidente, sumunod kayo."
37:13 Which is basically totoo rin.
37:16 So kailangan mo talaga yung ganong combination din.
37:20 Idaan mo sa rason, idaan mo sa ano ba yung utos ng Presidente.
37:26 So you needed a general to do that, in this case a retired general, but si General Leo Ferrer, Presidente Ferrer, no relation.
37:35 But he was the one who had to say, to tell them directly, "Ito yung policy ng government, primacy of the peace policy, you have to follow orders."
37:49 So kailangan may ganun combination.
37:51 Pero for me kasi kailangan mo pareho. Hindi lang hindi mo ipapaliwanag bakit o hindi mo sa kanila ipapaintindi.
37:58 Pero yung combination nun kasi meron ka rin immediate aim. So kailangan mo talaga impose sa kanila, "Primacy of the peace policy ito."
38:07 So I want to ask you now about the status of women in the Philippines. Nabanggit mo nga na we've had more than one woman president.
38:18 Currently we have a woman vice president. The runner-up in the last presidential election was a woman.
38:25 I mean 15 million voted for Lenny Robredo.
38:28 So if you look at global rankings, lagi tayong mataas pagdating doon sa global gender gap, etc. and other indexes.
38:39 But there are also a lot of remaining gender issues.
38:45 So do you find any contradiction here between itong ranking halimbawa ng Pilipinas pagdating dito sa mga gender equality, gender gap indexes,
38:59 and these constant reminders that there are a lot of challenges facing women in the Philippines?
39:07 Siyempre, andyan pa rin yan. Kasi may cultural biases ka. Nagbabago-bago yan sa iba-ibang mga subcultures natin,
39:16 sa indigenous communities natin talaga. Halimbawa in tribal of elders mostly, talagang basically lalaki ang mga yan.
39:25 So dalawang categories yan. Seniority, kaya nga yung mga kabataan natin, the youth are also speaking up and asserting their voices.
39:33 Tapos yung pagdalawang category, yung gender, dahil nga traditionally lalaki yan.
39:39 But marami nang nag-break ng glass ceilings na yan. Unti-unti na, and nag-open up na yung consciousness din ng mga tao.
39:48 And only because women have proven that they can do the job.
39:52 Yung nga problema dito, halimbawa hindi namin na-sign yung peace agreement nung ako yung chair. Anong sasabihin nila?
39:58 Lalaki kasi. Pero kung lalaki yun, and lalaki naman in the past, bakit hindi rin nila nagawa? Walang magsasabi na lalaki kasi yan.
40:05 So ganon yung social bias diyan. So ang idea dito is really to show, to prove. And we are an evidence.
40:17 Globally, evidence tayo sa ganitong global campaign for women to take on a bigger role in peace and security.
40:27 Not just to talk about women's issues, certainly to put the women's issues into the picture.
40:33 But to talk about really hard stuff. Ano ba yung sources ng conflict na 'to? Bakit dito? Tapos ano yung pweding mangyari dyan?
40:43 Even yung the knowledge and the expertise to go through all the complications of the issue.
40:54 The more women are able to precisely show the world that women can do it, then it becomes less and less of a problem.
41:03 Kasi nanonormalize yung role ng ganitong kababaihan at hindi na lang yung in-expect na ma-appoint dyan sa kung saan-saan mga delikadong missions.
41:15 Sa limbawa, ang unang mahahanap ay mga kalalakihan. Dami na rin yung mga babae na nandyan na. Nandyan sa listahan.
41:24 Pero siyempre kailangan mo ng leadership na may ganon klaseng consciousness.
41:28 Kasi pag hindi talaga naghanap ng capable women, usually ang makikita nila sa roster, yung mga lalaki muna,
41:37 ito yung mga lalaki na itong kakilala nila, so sila yung i-appoint nila. Ganon din sa lahat ng level, sa national as well as international level.
41:49 But we've made a point, I think. I think that's the most important thing.
41:53 Kaya nga medyo narirecognize yung process natin internationally because we made that point that it can be done.
42:01 So speaking of glass ceilings, obviously you broke one as the first female chief peace negotiator.
42:09 And recently I also interviewed the first woman spokesperson of the armed forces, si Colonel Franzel Padilla.
42:17 What are the next glass ceilings that you think should be broken? What glass ceiling needs urgent breaking at this point?
42:29 First I'll qualify, meron Vietnamese woman who was part of the Paris Peace Agreement that was signed to end the Vietnam War.
42:38 She represented the Communist Party of South Vietnam at the time kasi eventually nag-end yung conflict.
42:47 US ang kausap nila dito. Yung US delegation pa nay lalaki. Pero in Vietnam may isang babae who eventually became one of their foreign ministers.
42:58 So pioneering tayo talaga sa Southeast Asia in that sense. Kaya lang syempre iba yung format nun. Iba yung format marami sila.
43:05 And in the end, Kissinger and the Prime Minister of North Vietnam, Le Duc, at the time ended up getting the Nobel Peace Prize, which Le Duc actually refused to take.
43:17 Marami kasing ironies yung Vietnam War, diba? O kinatawag ng Vietnam-American War.
43:24 So in any case, we should not forget that way back in 1978 may isang babae dun sa set of negotiators that represented North and South Vietnam vis-a-vis the United States.
43:38 And the US delegation was all male. All male. So yun yung irony sa US, sabihin mo na mataas yung gender equity, but when it comes to top positions, talagang male dominated.
43:50 They've never had a female president. So ganun din sa atin, I think, halimbawa sa Bangsamoro ngayon, one of the good things that's emerging is that there are a lot of really capable, fairly young women who have taken on significant positions within the transition government.
44:13 So ano yan eh, it's a very, very slow process of really bringing in the women. But hindi pa natin alam how it will go and how they're coping with it.
44:24 Alam natin na just like any women, marami silang na-encounter na, sabihin mo na, mga soft harassment, hindi naman talaga outright harassment, just because babae sila.
44:38 If I may share an anecdote, sa sabihin sa isang MP na babae, ang tatawa itatawag sa kanya, miss beautiful, at ang sinabi niya ay, can you strike that off the record, referring to me as miss beautiful.
44:55 So yung ganun mga kwento, lumalabas pa rin yan. Hindi ko nalang sabihin, because we don't really want to offend anyone. But it's still there. It's still there in the culture.
45:06 Tapos yung ngayon, nakita natin yung electoral code nila. Maganda talaga yung lumabas na bangsamoro electoral code.
45:14 Bagamat may challenge sa Supreme Court, pero dito sa electoral code na 'to, meron silang provision against political dynasty, which we never had, which we still have to do in any of our national legislation.
45:29 Tapos meron silang quota for women sa regional political parties na isi-setup nila.
45:35 Hindi lamang klaro kung paano nila i-allocate yung sequencing ng seats. Kasi PR system yan, sa proportional representation. Kung sino yung unang nasa listahan.
45:47 So bagamat may quota ka, dapat sana mas klaro in the sense na alternate, ganyan, at hindi nasa bottom list nung party list nila, yung kababaihan.
45:59 But it's there. It's in the provision. Kung ano yung hirap na mag-introduce ng gender provisions na naranasan namin during the initial years of the negotiation,
46:11 it has increasingly become a more open atmosphere to bring in these kinds of items in the legislation.
46:26 But it doesn't mean ulit na yung implementation will be perfect. And that's why it's very good that a lot of women are also very active.
46:34 Very active in civil society, within the bureaucracy of the Bangsamoro government, as well as in the parliament.
46:44 Nag-ulit ako when I first started moving around Mindanao many years ago, and until now, I still travel to Mindanao quite a bit.
46:55 Kasi of course we all know and hear about the biases against women in Islam, especially in predominantly many Muslim countries.
47:07 Pero when you go to Moro places, Moro communities in Mindanao, marami kang makakausap makikilalang women leaders na Moro,
47:21 from barangay captain to governor. Minsan may governor na babae, mukhang nerespeto naman ng lalaki.
47:28 I mean, obviously maraming lalaking bumoto sa kanila, kaya sila naging public officials.
47:33 So is this more of a Filipino cultural thing? Despite some religious teachings about the role of women,
47:48 maraming babae sa Pilipinas na Muslim, they aspire for leadership positions. They lead communities. They lead families.
47:58 Pagdating namin yung voting behavior ng Pilipino, they don't really choose based on gender.
48:04 Ang dynasties pa rin ang pinag-uusapan natin dito pagdating sa name recall, dynasties, pera, yan ang nagde-determine ng voting behavior.
48:18 So in fact, according to one study, pero medyo matagal na rin ito, kaya dumami yung babae sa national level,
48:25 it's because you're off the term limits. So kung hindi na pwede yung asawa na lalaki, yung husband, di yung babae naman to keep the power within the family.
48:37 Kung walang matinong anak na lalaki, di yung babae. So you can see the term limits in a way has helped put women in elective positions.
48:49 So if you look at the voting pattern, hindi naman talaga by gender ang determination natin. But let me just say, hindi naman sa Islam lang yan.
48:58 Makapunta ka sa Eastern Europe which is Christian, Christian communities, Orthodox Church.
49:06 Maski sa Latin America, Catholics, yung kultura, ang influence ng religion, bagamat hindi lang religion ang influence sa political culture or generally culture ng tao, ng isang society,
49:30 ang lakas talaga ng conservatism pa din pagdating sa gender. So we often think na Islam yung pinaka conservative na siguro, I'm Hindu societies.
49:45 Kasi mahirap talaga i-brand based on religion lang. Baka theological debate yan kung ano talaga yung sinasabi nung libro o nung prophet nila.
49:56 But it's a global thing. Na-emphasize lang talaga sa Islam because you have rather extreme cases dun sa mga ilang countries na nag-impose ng certain way of dressing and certain prohibitions on women.
50:16 Alam natin halimbawa yung Taliban for example. But this is an ongoing thing which will have to be advocated by women as well as men who think differently.
50:33 So, mga feminist men at madami-dami din yan. Their voices are very, very important in advocating this. Kasi pag sa babae lang nila naririnig, baka hindi sila masyadong maniwala. Mas maganda kung mga kapwa nila ng lalaki nagsasalita din.
50:50 Okay, we're going to let you go now. Thank you Professor Ferrer for sharing your memories and important perspectives.
50:58 Yeah, thank you for your service to the country. Miriam Coronel Ferrer, Ramon Magsaysay awardee and the first female chief negotiator in the world.
51:08 You were the chief government negotiator to sign a final peace accord with a rebel group, the MILF. So, magbuhay kayo. Maraming maraming salamat Professor Miriam Coronel Ferrer. Thank you so much for spending your time with us.
51:21 Thank you, Howie. All the best and more power.
51:24 Hi, I'm Howie Severino. Check out the Howie Severino Podcast. New episodes will stream every Thursday. Listen for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts and other platforms.
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