A Romeo & Juliet 'unlike any other': Acclaimed choreographer Matthew Bourne speaks to France 24
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Transcript
00:00 - Now one of the most famous tales in history
00:02 is that of the tragic young lovers, Romeo and Juliet.
00:06 Shakespeare's classic play has inspired artists for centuries
00:09 spinning out into versions like Baz Luhrmann's
00:11 modern movie take in the 90s
00:13 or the iconic musical, West Side Story.
00:16 Its latest incarnation is a reworking
00:18 of the ballet version of Romeo and Juliet
00:20 that's on now at the Châtelet Theater in Paris.
00:22 It's from world-renowned director
00:24 and choreographer, Matthew Bourne,
00:26 who joins me now on the set.
00:27 Matthew, welcome.
00:28 - Great to be here, thank you.
00:29 - So you've been creating dance for over 30 years,
00:32 some incredible reworkings we've seen
00:33 in the past of Swan Lake or the car man,
00:36 which is your take on Carmen.
00:37 Now I read that you had said
00:38 that you would never do Romeo and Juliet.
00:41 What changed your mind?
00:43 - Well, I thought it was a bit overdone, you know,
00:45 in all the different mediums
00:46 that it's being incarnated, as you said.
00:50 I think the thing that changed my mind
00:52 was to cast it really young
00:54 and go on a real talent search for young dancers.
00:58 That inspired me and I thought I could,
00:59 I really want to listen to young people
01:01 and what was important to them.
01:03 That got me going, got my mind, the juices flowing.
01:06 And I think we've come up with something
01:09 which is fairly unique, you know,
01:11 not like any other Romeo and Juliet.
01:13 - It certainly is.
01:14 And we're gonna talk a lot more about it,
01:15 but first let's just let the pictures speak for themselves.
01:18 (dramatic music)
01:22 (audience cheering)
01:25 (bell ringing)
01:32 (gentle music)
01:34 Matthew Bourne's Romeo and Juliet
01:47 are now at the Châtelet Theater in Paris.
01:49 Matthew, we saw a bit there,
01:50 your Romeo and Juliet, of course, a bit different,
01:52 it's your own take.
01:53 It takes place in Verona, but not the town of Verona,
01:56 something called the Verona Institute,
01:57 which is sort of a mental institution
02:00 or a very strict boarding school.
02:02 Tell us a bit about what was your idea there.
02:04 - Well, it's interesting 'cause I try not to dictate
02:06 to the audience what they're seeing.
02:08 It's set in an institution,
02:10 as you rightly say, the Verona Institute.
02:12 It could be a prison, it could be a hospital,
02:14 it could be many things.
02:16 I don't mind what the audience feel from watching that,
02:18 but it's a story told,
02:20 it gives you a Romeo and Juliet type story,
02:23 but it tells its own story
02:25 with a few surprises along the way.
02:26 And we all know how it ends, rather tragically,
02:30 but it's how we get there, which is very different.
02:33 And I kind of approach dance in the way
02:37 you would approach going to see a great film.
02:39 You don't wanna know what the ending is before you see it.
02:42 So I try and have a few surprises plot-wise along the way
02:46 and create a story which is gonna, hopefully,
02:49 surprise people in a good way.
02:51 - It's interesting, many classical characters
02:53 remain, obviously, Romeo, Juliet,
02:55 the names are the same, Tybalt,
02:57 but you've tweaked some of these characters.
02:59 So tell us about the choices
03:00 in the tweaking of those characters.
03:02 - Well, for Romeo and Juliet, I've made them,
03:04 they're two young people who are incarcerated
03:06 in this institution.
03:07 You don't really know, again, why.
03:09 But Juliet has a history of abuse in her story
03:13 before she meets Romeo.
03:14 Romeo, you see him brought to the institute
03:17 by rather uncaring parents, paid to be kept there.
03:21 Maybe he's an embarrassment in some way.
03:23 He's an innocent, in a way, quite a quirky young guy.
03:27 So they're very different.
03:28 When they meet, you know quite a lot about them
03:31 as characters.
03:33 But we also have Tybalt, who's a guard in this place.
03:35 He's the villain of the piece.
03:37 We have other characters from the Shakespeare.
03:39 Mercutio has a boyfriend in our piece called Balthazar.
03:43 We try and represent what a lot of,
03:45 is important to a lot of young people
03:47 by the inmates of this institute as well.
03:50 - And that's something that works really well
03:51 when you watch the piece,
03:52 because you're dealing with a lot of themes
03:53 you don't usually see in dance.
03:55 You know, mental health, homophobia, bullying.
03:58 What were the challenges of bringing that into the show?
04:01 - Very challenging, actually,
04:02 because I felt they were subjects
04:03 that couldn't be taken lightly.
04:05 We had to approach them in a serious way and discuss them
04:08 and make sure we were representing those stories
04:12 in the right way.
04:13 When you're dealing with those subject matters,
04:15 you can't just use them in a flippant way.
04:18 And I think Juliette's story in particular,
04:21 which touches on her abuse that you're aware of
04:24 early on in the piece,
04:26 comes to, it comes back to haunt her in a way.
04:31 Like it does with, it's not something that just leaves you.
04:34 It's there forever.
04:35 And I think that's an important part of our plot
04:37 and very important to approach it
04:39 with a seriousness that it deserves.
04:41 - And what's so great with your dancers as well,
04:43 they're all wonderful actors.
04:45 When you're auditioning, when you're creating the company,
04:47 how much do you look for the acting piece of the puzzle?
04:51 - Well, they're not trained actors.
04:52 They're trained dancers.
04:53 That's the first skill that I need from them.
04:56 And they, I look for dancers who are very generous
04:59 with wanting to express.
05:01 It's not acting in a sense in auditions.
05:04 It's about them wanting to give to an audience.
05:06 That's the beginning of acting in a way,
05:08 the beginning of wanting to tell a story.
05:10 They kind of learn from each other.
05:12 This piece in particular,
05:13 because it's set in the modern day,
05:15 it's about young people.
05:16 They have the chance to maybe represent themselves
05:19 a little bit.
05:20 They can call upon their own experiences
05:22 to create characters, which is very useful
05:24 if you're not, you know, it's not your first skill.
05:27 - You also get a feeling of the ensemble
05:29 because each, even the main roles are played
05:32 by three different dancers
05:33 throughout the course of the show.
05:35 Tell me about that process of working together
05:37 as a real troupe without stars.
05:39 - Yeah, they're a wonderful company
05:40 because then they truly are a company and a family.
05:43 It's important to keep the show alive.
05:46 So the casting, as you say,
05:47 every night is a different mix of people.
05:50 The Romy's and Juliet's change.
05:51 Everyone changes around.
05:53 We do a lot of performances.
05:54 We do a lot of touring.
05:56 It keeps people on their toes.
05:58 It keeps the show alive
05:59 'cause you never quite know
06:00 who you're gonna dance with that night.
06:02 It doesn't settle into anything.
06:03 And that's what keeps it fresh, I think.
06:06 - And let's talk about the score.
06:07 Many people are familiar with that score.
06:08 We heard from Prokofiev.
06:10 You work with Terry Davies.
06:12 You've worked with him for many, many years.
06:14 How does the process work?
06:15 Does he tweak up the score first
06:17 and then you choreograph or vice versa?
06:19 - It's a bit of both.
06:21 This one in particular, Prokofiev, for me,
06:23 it's such great dance music.
06:25 It's great storytelling music.
06:27 And for me, it's like the script,
06:28 much more so than Shakespeare in this situation.
06:32 The Prokofiev is the script.
06:34 And so I listen to it with Terry
06:36 and try and find new ideas, new feelings,
06:39 new emotions in that music.
06:41 And it's very much guided by the music.
06:44 I think it's one of the best scores ever written.
06:47 It's written in the 1930s.
06:48 It sounds like a contemporary film score sometimes.
06:52 But we were able to redo a new orchestration
06:55 for this version with 17 musicians.
06:58 So it's got a much more visceral, raw feeling to it.
07:02 - I was mentioning before,
07:04 one of the incarnations of "Romeo and Juliet"
07:05 that many people know in the theater world,
07:07 "West Side Story," in this picture that we see behind you,
07:09 it is reminiscent of that dance at the gym.
07:11 Was that going through your mind?
07:12 - Always.
07:13 "West Side Story" has been a lifelong inspiration to me.
07:17 I've always loved the piece.
07:18 And we were just in Los Angeles, I should tell you,
07:21 with the piece.
07:22 And the two, the leader of the Jets, Russ Tamblyn,
07:26 and the leader of the Sharks, George Sikiris,
07:29 both nearly 90 years old, both came to see the show,
07:33 which was a thrill for the company, a thrill for me.
07:35 But that show has gone through my life as an inspiration.
07:38 So it's always gonna be in there a little bit.
07:40 - You've also worked many years in Broadway
07:42 on "The West End," several productions
07:44 with Cameron Mackintosh.
07:45 "The West End," then Broadway,
07:47 then the Châtelet Theater in Paris.
07:49 How does it compare?
07:50 How are French audiences?
07:51 - Châtelet, it's such a cultural city, France.
07:55 I get a bit nervous, actually,
07:56 about coming to a new place.
07:58 We haven't been here for quite a long time.
08:00 The show's very, as you say, very different,
08:03 very alternative take on this.
08:05 So I get quite nervous.
08:06 I think it's a very,
08:07 the French audience is very discerning.
08:11 But it's gone down well so far.
08:13 I feel very happy.
08:14 The concentration is incredible with the audience,
08:16 that you can hear a pin drop.
08:18 It feels great.
08:20 So I'm very happy that the French audiences
08:22 are taking to this new version.
08:24 - Matthew, you've been touring
08:25 with this "Romeo and Juliet" since 2019.
08:28 What's your next project?
08:29 Have you chosen another old story, old book,
08:31 old movie to reinvent?
08:33 - I haven't got a new one as such coming up.
08:36 We're reviving my "Swan Lake",
08:38 it's 30th anniversary production later this year,
08:40 the one with the male swans.
08:43 And it's, I do love bringing shows back.
08:47 I always feel you can improve on them.
08:49 I know many choreographers and directors
08:51 don't like reviving, but I've always loved it.
08:54 I always feel you can do better.
08:56 And so that's as exciting for me as doing a new show.
08:59 - Well, we're looking forward to it.
09:00 In the meantime, we can catch
09:02 a "Romeo and Juliet" by Matthew Bourne
09:04 at the Châtelet Theatre in Paris.
09:05 It's on through March 28th.
09:07 Thank you so much for coming in to see us.