Jaipur Literature Fest 2024: Authors Explore the Purpose of Scriptures & Burst the Myths | Oneindia
Join us for an engaging discussion at the Jaipur Literature Festival 2024 as Koral Dasgupta, Satyarth Nayak, and Saksham Garg delve into the intriguing topic of myth and memory. Discover the significance of understanding our scriptures and unravel the mysteries behind their enduring relevance. Don't miss out on this thought-provoking conversation. Subscribe now for more highlights from the Jaipur Lit Fest!
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#JLF #JaipurLiteratureFest #LiteratureFestJaipur #Mythology #Scriptures #MythBurst #JFL2024 #JaipurLiteratureFest2024 #Oneindia
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NewsTranscript
00:00 I'm extremely delighted to be here today and that's not just because I've been spending
00:09 the lastā¦
00:10 I've come to the JLF for the last fourteen years and I've been secretly manifesting
00:15 this but also because I have this great, great opportunity to be sitting here with two senior
00:20 writers.
00:21 A huge round of applause for Satyarth Nayak and Kaural Dasgupta please.
00:25 Thank you.
00:28 So you know, Satyarth and Kaural write in similar genres as I do except this is an extremely
00:34 unique opportunity not just for all of us but also for me to learn.
00:38 They've written multiple books, I have just the one book, right?
00:42 And the reason why this is unique despite it being the same genre is because Satyarth
00:48 has you know, the booksā¦ the scriptures that we focused on or the time that these
00:54 scriptures were written, the nature of the writing differs across the spectrum.
01:00 Satyarth has through Mahagatha you know, taken a look and recounted the stories from the
01:07 Puranas, the Puranas that don't necessarily get the respect of the scriptures but are
01:13 Smritis and are a lot recent and you know, there are a lot of interesting things we'll
01:18 be talking about for the Puran but Kaural on the other hand has obviously a little further
01:23 back if you look in history you know, 300 BC is when I believe the epics were compiled
01:31 and Kaural on the other hand has retold and given the voice to the voiceless as well.
01:38 And me on the other hand, I have reimagined and I have focused on the oldest religious
01:43 scripture on the planet, the Rig Veda.
01:45 So we'll dive right in and what we're going to be doing today in the short truncated span
01:49 of time we have left is we're going to be talking about the works, we're going to be
01:55 talking about you know, why you guys have made the choices that you've made in your
01:58 writing process and you know, why we do what we do, why is it that we connect, engage with
02:04 these texts, with the texts and reframe them for today.
02:09 So you know, one of the things that, thank you, one of the things that I consistently
02:14 asked myself right, when I was writing the book, which is what is the purpose of what
02:20 I'm trying to do and you know, it's our responsibility, correct me if I'm wrong Satyarthan, Kaural,
02:25 that's our responsibility to try and bring forward what is written in the scriptures
02:29 holistically not just the popular stories but what do they try and convey right and
02:34 I felt that one of the ways to do that as writers was to focus on the little known characters
02:41 or tales from our scriptures, the epics, the Puranas, what have you right.
02:46 So I want to start off with you Satyarthan, is there in your research when you were diving
02:50 into the Puranas, is there a particular story or a character or a deity that you'd like
02:56 to tell us about today?
02:57 Well there are 100 stories, so which one do I pick?
03:01 I mean I think one story that I discovered while reading the Puranas and I've spoken
03:06 about it at every platform because it's short, it's sweet and it just tells you about the
03:10 kind of, you know, just the stature that the Puranas give to women.
03:14 So it so happens that all the gods come to Brahma one day, they're extremely famished
03:19 and they say we have no food to eat and Brahma says how is that possible?
03:22 I have created a very proper system where whenever there are yagyas down on earth, whenever
03:26 havans happen down on earth and oblations are poured into the fire, those oblations
03:31 reach you as your god, what we call in Sanskrit as the havish and then the gods bless you
03:36 so it's a very proper symbiotic cycle and Agni folds his hands and says I'm sorry I
03:42 don't seem to have the agency to make the transfer possible and so Brahma scratches
03:46 his foreheads and wonders what to do next and then Brahma consults Prakriti which is
03:51 mother nature and Prakriti creates a goddess and Brahma says you will now be that conduit
03:56 who shall make the transfer possible and it is because of you that we shall survive.
04:01 Brahma asks the goddess what has Prakriti named you and the goddess replies she calls
04:05 me Swaha.
04:06 So Brahma makes a rule that from now on whenever a yagya happens, every line must end with
04:11 the word Swaha.
04:12 Only when the word Swaha is uttered will the transfer be possible and then later Agni and
04:17 Swaha marry and they're forever united.
04:20 So just the sheer beauty of the story, the power, the fact that here are these alpha
04:23 male gods standing utterly helpless and it's a woman who comes to their rescue.
04:28 So I think women, a huge round of applause just for yourself for being the nurturing
04:32 and the nourishing agent that you are and that is what the Puranas have always celebrated.
04:36 So I think one of the many stories in Mahagatha which I absolutely love.
04:39 Just one of the many mind you, interesting stories in Mahagatha, hundred tales from the
04:44 Puranas.
04:45 Moving on to you Koral, you know Koral is a senior writer.
04:49 She's focused and retold the stories of the Panch Kanyas, right?
04:54 Tara, Ahalya, Mandodari, Draupadi, right?
04:57 And Kunti.
04:58 And you know I want to ask you, during your research, taking a close look at the epics,
05:05 two thousand years ago when they were compiled, was there a particular story or character
05:08 that you'd like to tell us about today?
05:10 See, when you talk about research, I frankly did not do any.
05:16 My way of looking at these, I am comparatively better at because I have read many versions,
05:22 not because I will write someday but just because I was interested.
05:26 Now when I am telling the stories, I am sticking to the storyline of a comics that a third
05:33 grader would read, third or fourth grader.
05:37 So that is what most of the audience is aware of in the story format.
05:43 And I am not trying to give any gyan that, you know, the kind of this happened and that
05:47 happened and trying to establish any because there are so many versions and so many truth.
05:54 What I am just trying to do is understand the stories from that data point and look,
06:00 trying to read between the lines.
06:03 So Kunti had Karna with Surya, right?
06:07 But after Kunti engaged with Surya, what happened?
06:10 Did Surya disappear?
06:11 Can't happen, right?
06:12 There must be a inner, I mean, in-growth story between Kunti and Surya.
06:19 That is my interest, developing that.
06:22 Some questions that came to me while I was writing and this is a part of the process
06:27 that you are talking about.
06:31 Kunti was mandated because she had that boon, whether you call it a boon or a curse is a
06:34 different thing, but then she had it, had it.
06:37 And she had to, since she had called upon Surya, she had to go with it.
06:42 What stopped Surya from stopping it?
06:44 He could have backed out, right?
06:46 So if he hadn't backed out, that means it's like a contract.
06:49 I may have signed it, but I have signed it along with the person and disabled the person
06:54 from backing out if I have chosen that person.
06:57 It's kind of that kind of a contract.
06:59 So that is my work, trying to look at it, trying to understand it a little better.
07:03 And about my favorite character, Pandu, absolutely, you know, we know Pandu as very weak king,
07:14 right?
07:15 He was someone who was born when, because his mother grew pale when she was asked to
07:19 engage with Vyasa.
07:21 But if you look at Pandu's story, Pandu must have grown up knowing how he was born.
07:27 So he grew up knowing that his mother was forced and he was not exactly a celebrated
07:32 child though born in a royal family.
07:35 So he grew up with that lacking.
07:38 And then he grows up, he has two wives.
07:40 He, okay, Pandu is not a weak by his might, because he was a great warrior and he was
07:47 the first teacher of Arjun before Dronacharya came.
07:51 Yeah, he was the first teacher.
07:54 Now Pandu grows up and he has two wives now.
07:58 And he is struck by a curse that he, the moment he tries to engage, have sex with another
08:06 woman, he will die without a child.
08:09 Now he is back to square one and he knows that if this is known, Bhishma will once again
08:14 do something, Niyoga type, and his wives will go through the same process that he went through.
08:22 He rushes off with his two wives to the forest.
08:25 That is where Kunti tells him that she has that boon.
08:27 Now your spouse tells you that she has a boon of this effect.
08:31 What is the first question that comes to you?
08:33 Did you try it?
08:34 Obvious, right?
08:35 The man will ask.
08:37 And given the character of Kunti that she is, that helps me to derive that Pandu knew
08:42 everything about Kunti, everything.
08:45 But he allows her to go ahead.
08:48 He doesn't sit with the ego.
08:50 He allows her to go ahead, do what he wants, what she wants, call the God who she wants
08:56 to and have children.
08:58 And he owns up those children, gives them the name Pandav and they are his children,
09:05 right?
09:06 That brings me to the idea that this is one fabulous character who did not let his history
09:14 repeat, one.
09:16 And second, today in our feminism concepts we are talking about a happy mother raises
09:23 happy children.
09:24 Our Mahabharata told it so long ago, we missed it.
09:29 Beautifully said.
09:30 It continues to surprise me how intricate the scriptures, you know, they are.
09:35 And if you dive into them, you'll unearth such great moral lessons that we can be applied
09:41 today as well.
09:42 You know, for me, it was very similar to you, Koral.
09:45 I was trying to understand for the rigā¦ about the Rig Veda for my book Samsara and
09:51 I came across the little known daughter of Lord Shiv and the goddess of the mountains,
09:57 Parvati.
09:58 And, you know, we know about Lord Ganesh and Kartikeya but very few people know that Aranyani
10:04 is mentioned in the Rig Veda, the oldest religious scripture, not just in Hinduism but the planet.
10:09 And Aranyani is shown inā¦ is mentioned in the eighth mandala of the Rig Veda as "O
10:16 Aranyani, art thou not afraid?
10:19 O Aranyani, where art thou?"
10:21 And this goddess of the forest, even that long ago, 2500 BC, 5000 years ago, was signifying
10:30 this impending climate change, that elusive environmentalism that long ago.
10:35 And you know, when I stumbled across that, I was dead sure that this was one of the things
10:40 that I wanted to highlight through Samsara.
10:43 And Samsara, Koral's work, Mahagatha by Satyarth, continue to, in their own way, be
10:50 retellings.
10:51 And that's another thing that I want to discuss here with you today, that the power of retellings,
10:55 not only do they make things more accessible but, you know, I want to mention quickly that
10:59 this is a question that gets asked so often on JLF panels in the past with a similar topic.
11:06 So show of hands, how many of you believe, show of hands, how many of you believe that
11:10 the Lakshman Rekha is part of the Ramayana?
11:13 Absolutely.
11:14 And you're absolutely, you know, you're all correct, except did you know, right, that
11:20 the Lakshman Rekha does not find mentioned in the earliest version of the Ramayana written
11:24 by Valmiki ji almost 200, at 200 BC and neither does it find in recent retellings such as
11:31 Tulsidas Ramcharitramanas either, 1600 AD.
11:36 But you must have seen it in the 80s Doordarshan show that I'm sure a lot of you would have
11:41 watched and it actually comes from Adyut Atmaramayana, did you guys know?
11:46 And the Meghalaya Ramayana, there are several that mention it too.
11:48 We had a discussion about this earlier recently.
11:51 And you know, Satyarth, I want to ask you first, because the Puranas mention a ton of
11:57 great stories that we want to dive into.
11:59 And one of the most famous of them is the Samudra Manthan, the churning of the ocean
12:03 of milk and adding to that popularity has been the tale of the Kumbh Mela.
12:09 Why or how exactly are the four locations of the Kumbh Mela decided, right?
12:15 And it is believed that after the Samudra Manthan, the, after the Dev and the Asur churned
12:20 the ocean of milk, four drops fell in what is now India.
12:24 And these are the locations.
12:25 So I'm curious to understand how is it in Mahagata, what is your approach been towards
12:30 deciding these stories in Mahagata?
12:32 And how did you decide what makes the cut?
12:35 What is the format, the structure of it?
12:37 Take us through the process.
12:38 Okay, that's like five questions in one question.
12:41 So basically, I think the idea was to, of course, dive into the Puranas.
12:45 I mean, we have all grown up reading and loving mythology.
12:48 So for me, it was about entering the staggering world of Puranas.
12:50 I said every podcast at every platform that, you know, I kind of deep dived into the Puranas
12:55 and hopefully I came out with 100 pearls.
12:57 The idea of that's, that's the kind of stories that these are.
13:00 For me, what was interesting was to also what is interesting about Mahagata is that for
13:06 the first time you have the best stories, the best wisdom of the Puranas under one roof.
13:10 That was a huge objective.
13:12 I wanted to put everything under one roof so that, you know, our generations current
13:15 and you know, those who are coming, you get a sense of the wisdom that is there.
13:20 And like when we launched the book in Bombay, we had Ayan Mukherjee launching the book.
13:24 He said, you know, Satyarth, I am not someone who will read a Shiv Puran or a Vishnu Puran
13:28 because I find it highly academic.
13:30 But for me, what Mahagatha does is that it gives me an access into that world.
13:33 It gives me a very easy access and access through stories, because there's no better
13:38 entry point or anything than stories.
13:39 I mean, stories are implanted in our DNA, the love for stories.
13:42 So that I think was the main objective.
13:45 Also the fact that this is the first collection that is not a random collection of stories.
13:49 It is a chronology.
13:50 So you start with the creation of the universe in Satyuga, then how Brahma is created, how
13:54 Vishnu comes, how Mahadev comes, how the goddesses come, how the demons come, and then the time
13:59 starts Satyuga, then you come to the stories of Treta Yug, and Dvapar and finally Kali.
14:03 So what Mahagatha does is that stories that we might have known as singular episodes,
14:08 random episodes or standalone episodes, Mahagatha takes a much, it zooms out and gives you a
14:13 wider view of the entire universe.
14:15 So you are reading a novel, which is why we're calling it Mahagatha.
14:18 There are 100 gathas together, they're making one Mahagatha.
14:21 So that was the idea about how to create the book.
14:25 (Applause)
14:27 Koral, coming to you, this is your forte, retellings, right?
14:33 And I'm genuinely very curious to know when you were unearthing the stories of these iconic
14:40 women from the epics, the Panchakanyas, it couldn't have been easy, because despite the
14:47 scriptures being some of the longest, the Mahabharata is the longest poem on the planet,
14:51 but I think the women don't get as much screen time as the men perhaps.
14:56 So how was your process and how do you approach the uncovering and the unearthing of your
15:04 protagonists?
15:06 See, firstly, I must tell you that you probably get to do the kind of work that I have done
15:14 and that is not just me writing.
15:16 That is also about connecting with Panmabh Milan, that is also about connecting with
15:19 the readers and we don't do paid publicity, right?
15:23 The entire thing that happened, it cannot happen without a blessing.
15:26 To mere upar kuch toh hai, mere upar hum sab ke upar, that we connected.
15:31 So I have a lot of gratitude towards that, that it had to happen through me, it happened
15:36 through me, so I cannot take the entire credit.
15:39 Even the stories came to me like that through my reading.
15:42 And probably a lot of things that, you know, as a woman, you go through a lot of things
15:46 in your personal life and not everything you talk about.
15:50 Kuch cheezein hai jo aapke andar hi dabhi rehti hai, because you have to choose your
15:55 fights.
15:57 But when you approach literature, woh na kisi na kisi ki tarike se apna ek nadhi bhejaati
16:02 hai.
16:03 So that also when I was writing, those things flew and got more relatable maybe in these
16:08 stories.
16:09 I could find out.
16:11 But the most important thing that I must say here is that for long, we have tried to understand
16:18 Ramayana and Mahabharata as commercial fiction.
16:22 These are not commercial fictions, they are philosophy, written by great sages, great
16:26 philosophers in very ancient past.
16:30 And when they were writing, they didn't think that who will be the audience of future.
16:37 Yeh ek Hindu padega ya Muslim padega, ek aurat padegi ya ek mard padega, Brahman padege
16:43 ya Shudra padega.
16:44 They were not thinking about that.
16:46 They just wrote the stories with certain truth in their mind.
16:51 They were aware of certain truth and they brought them together, compiled them together
16:55 and put across certain stories.
16:58 So everything in these philosophical narratives is a metaphor.
17:02 Everything that is happening, every character has some philosophical concoction to it.
17:07 And it is very important to understand that philosophy under each story.
17:11 When you look at them, and it's not just about Ramayana, Mahabharata, Ramayana, Mahabharata,
17:15 Purana, Bible, Koran, koi bhi, these are all philosophical narratives.
17:20 They are trying to tell you certain truth.
17:22 Jaan lo, uske baad what you follow, what is your right, what you have to do, what are
17:27 your circumstances and from all these filters, what is your dharma.
17:31 You decide.
17:32 Right?
17:33 Now, when you are going through all these stories and of course, we lost the philosophical
17:39 connect primarily because of the language.
17:42 We couldn't keep up with Sanskrit.
17:45 Sanskrit jaise hi hat gaya, it became very colloquial.
17:48 Right?
17:49 Ek Bengali aagaya, ek Malayalam aagaya, ek Gujarati aagaya.
17:52 So it got spread and every time a translation happened, something new was added.
17:58 But the maximum issue that I feel about the retellings of these stories is the causes
18:05 that got attached.
18:06 You know, people did not just tell their stories.
18:09 They tried to cling on to causes.
18:12 In the Vedic era, given the needs and the causes of that particular era, people tried
18:22 to pick up their causes and they tried to tell the stories from the lenses of those
18:25 causes which trashed them even more.
18:27 Aap baat kar rahe the Lakshman Rekha ki.
18:32 Tell me one person jisko Lakshman Rekha nahi chahiye.
18:35 It is simple.
18:36 Every person, Lakshman Rekha appears for every person.
18:40 The moment you misunderstand your limits and cross them, there is danger.
18:45 Ye toh har kisi ke liye hai na, mere liye, aap ke liye, satyarth ke liye.
18:50 It is not just about women.
18:52 But when the feminists read Ramayana, they pointed out Sita ko Lakshman Rekha ke andar
18:56 rakha matlab, they are trying to put a barrier around women.
18:58 Arey, bullshit.
18:59 We are talking about Sita's agni pariksha.
19:07 Right?
19:08 There is a western proverb which says a leader has to walk through fire.
19:12 We celebrated it.
19:14 Wow, man, they said it.
19:16 Ramayana mein likha hua hai, the leader walked through fire.
19:19 We didn't understand what it meant.
19:20 Wo main meaning bataungi nahi, Tara mein hai, pad lena sabke jaat.
19:25 You guys must get Tara for sure.
19:27 But you know, I love what she said.
19:29 Koral is focusing on the essence, you know, in the retellings.
19:33 And that brings me, because you know, Satya, to be very honest, when I was writing and
19:36 I took 10 years, I gave everything to this book.
19:39 And I am hoping to write a lot more like you Koral and you Satya.
19:42 But when I was writing this book, the one question that also bothered me was, what is
19:48 the purpose of religion?
19:50 What purpose does religion serve today?
19:52 Right?
19:53 And I consistently came back to the idea that religion serves to make us better humans,
20:00 so that we are kinder.
20:02 We live more balanced lives, more in confluence with all living beings around us.
20:09 And most importantly, that journey within, right?
20:12 To face our fears, fight our vices and learn the truth about ourselves.
20:17 Even Vishwamitra in the Ramayana tells the four sons of Dasharatha that the ultimate
20:22 aim is to let go of aham and find brahman, right?
20:27 So I do that in my book.
20:29 What I do is I transport modern day Indians like yourself, right?
20:33 Like us.
20:34 And I take them to a hidden magical valley in the Himalayas that's mentioned in the Garud
20:39 Puran and as Siddha Ashram and where they come face to face with the gods alive and
20:45 kicking and through this, I tackle important questions about society today.
20:50 So we start with you first this time Koral.
20:53 What according to you is the purpose of religion and how can we as writers aim to recalibrate
20:58 that through our works?
20:59 You know, we have very myopic idea of religion and till the time our time comes, we don't
21:07 understand the impact of religion.
21:09 There are many ways to for me to justify this.
21:13 One is religion you believe is God's world.
21:16 So whatever happens in God's world, God is absolute, God is not to be contested, God
21:20 is correct.
21:22 So when you perceive religious stories, where men are macho and women are accepting towards
21:27 whatever is happening, you feel that is correct.
21:30 So that molds your social behavior and interpersonal behavior, the way men treat women and women
21:37 treat men.
21:39 However, Hindu philosophy, the moment you turn religion into philosophy, Hinduism believes
21:44 in rebirth.
21:46 So in the context of rebirth, if you having a male body, believe that you can torture
21:52 a woman, you can come into a woman's body, right?
21:57 So that is how things are, you know, when it comes to philosophy, things are connected
22:02 like this.
22:03 And everybody tries to be fearing of a future, ki aaj ka mera karma, mera kal banayega.
22:11 Other than that, religion is so deeply embedded.
22:15 I'll tell you, when my child, he's 11 now, when he was two years old, he had a, he suddenly
22:24 started contracting and in 11 p.m. on my hand, he just shivered terribly and still.
22:34 I have never in my life prayed.
22:36 I didn't, I believed in God.
22:38 I loved the concept of Shiva, Kali, Durga.
22:40 I went to mandaps, but I never prayed.
22:42 It's my husband who always stands after bath in front of the temple and ek mantra jab karta
22:47 hai.
22:48 I never did.
22:49 But that day, you know, mere mooh se nikal gaya, Shiv Shiv Shiv Shiv Shiv Shiv.
22:51 There's no other place to go.
22:53 There's no other place to ask from and there's no doctor.
22:56 You know, us time pe, vahi samajh mein aaya.
22:59 And later I realized ki mere andar aaya kaha se.
23:02 Because I was not the praying kind of a person.
23:04 I am a very practical, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah.
23:08 It is that deep inside us, the understanding of religion.
23:14 So if we are trying to follow religion, we could be atheists or we could be religious.
23:20 We could do a pooja or we could just get along believing that our karma is our, you know,
23:27 dharam.
23:28 But end of the day, you know, it is the religion that it is your belief, belief as in your
23:34 faith, whatever you are believing in, that creates a path for you.
23:39 And that path is very important that what you are choosing as your path.
23:42 No, you're right.
23:44 Faith finds us, you know, when you're in the hospital for even the most rational of us,
23:49 faith finds us when you've achieved your goal or when you can't make sense of life.
23:55 Satya, what do you have to add?
23:56 What is the purpose of religion and how can we recalibrate this to our work?
23:59 It's a very complex question.
24:00 I'm sure we cannot answer that, you know, in a, in a, in, especially with a ticking
24:03 clock that's saying, that's showing 10 minutes.
24:06 But like she spoke about the fact that it kind of, you, you, you derive some sort of
24:10 a refuge, some sort of a solace from it.
24:12 I think for me, religion would be something that ultimately puts everybody on an equal
24:16 stand.
24:17 We are all the same.
24:18 So anything religion, and that is the most important tenet of all.
24:22 I mean, again, if I illustrate this to a story, so Mahadev chops the head of Brahma because
24:28 Brahma was lusting after his daughter.
24:30 So while what he did was right, but that head sticks to the hand of Mahadev because he has
24:35 committed Brahma hathya.
24:36 So in the eyes of nature, while what Mahadev did is justified, it is still Brahma hathya.
24:41 So Mahadev, who is Devonka Dev, he now has to wander through the entire universe looking
24:44 for salvation.
24:46 And finally, when he enters earth at one particular place, that hand falls by itself,
24:51 sorry, that head falls by itself.
24:53 And he knows that he has been purged.
24:55 So that place today is called Kashi or Banaras, where we go for to expiate our sins.
25:00 So the fact that the rules are the same, whether you're human or whether you are God, the rules
25:03 remain the same.
25:04 I mean, there is a story of, you know, of the way when Chandra and Tara elope, and they
25:11 have an affair.
25:12 Tara is married to Brihaspati, but they have an affair.
25:16 And ultimately, when the gods command Brihaspati to take Tara back as his wife, Tara says,
25:20 but I also have a son who's now in my womb, and that is Chandra's son.
25:23 Will you accept him?
25:24 Brihaspati refuses, but the gods force him.
25:27 So Brihaspati curses the unborn foetus that when you take birth, you shall be a neuter.
25:32 You will not have any gender.
25:34 When he grows up, that is one story.
25:36 Parallelly, there is a king called Sudhyumna, who enters a forest and becomes a woman, because
25:41 that forest is the love nest of Mahadev and Parvati, and Mahadev has created a magic fantasy
25:46 something on the lines of samsara, that any man who enters would become a woman, because
25:50 he would not want a male gaze to fall on Parvati while they're making love.
25:54 So when Sudhyumna says, I'm a king, I cannot become a woman, Mahadev says, fine, I'll modify
25:58 the curse.
25:59 You will become a man for one month, and the next month you'll become a woman.
26:02 So you'll keep alternating between two genders.
26:04 So on one hand, we have Tara's son who grows up as Buddha, who has no gender.
26:09 He's a neuter.
26:10 On the other hand, we have Sudhyumna, who is a man, and Ila, who is a woman, a person
26:14 who has both the genders.
26:15 And Sudhyumna and Ila and Buddha marry, and from there comes the Chandravanshi dynasty.
26:22 So the fact that everybody has a place, everybody is given his or her work within the working
26:28 of karma, within the working of dharma, within the working of the universe.
26:31 Any religion that does that and does not discriminate, for me, that I think should be the greatest
26:35 and most important thing.
26:36 Especially in today's extreme hyper-Hindu climate that we are living in, when there
26:40 is a constant effort to create one grand narrative and every other narrative is false.
26:45 Look at the Ardha Narishwara, what do you see?
26:46 You see a man and a woman coming together.
26:48 But what do I see?
26:49 I see that if there is one narrative, there has to be a counter-narrative.
26:53 And only when the two narratives come together, can there be a third and a new narrative.
26:57 And that is how we evolve.
26:59 So let's be very clear about that.
27:01 Very well said Satyarthi.
27:04 We have individualistic understanding of God.
27:07 Koral, do you want to talk a little bit about that?
27:09 What is yours?
27:10 I will begin with explaining God and Shaitan and Bhagwan both.
27:16 And I will start with an instance from Ramayana.
27:20 If you look at God's world, there is Jatayu.
27:22 Jo chahe toh apna jaan de sakta hai for something that he believes is his duty to do.
27:28 If you look at an equivalent in Ravan's world, there is Pushpak.
27:31 Jo apne marzi se urd bhi nahi sakta.
27:35 He can obey.
27:36 Pushpak will obey orders, but will not have a mind of his own.
27:41 In Rama's world, you have birds, monkeys, many kinds of animals and birds.
27:47 In Ravan's world, we have the evidence of only one animal, that is the golden deer,
27:52 jo ki ek mayavi hai.
27:55 So I have reason to say that Rama's world is full of emotional intelligence and Ravan's
28:00 world is artificial intelligence.
28:02 So the idea of Shaitan, Shaitan woh nahi, this is what our epics are saying, Shaitan woh nahi
28:08 jo ek chaku leke ghoom raha hai.
28:10 Aap usko dekhoge, aapko malum hai ki woh aapko maar dega.
28:13 Aur kitna ko maarega?
28:14 Ek, do, das, with that one chaku.
28:17 Shaitan woh hai, jo bahut khubsurat hai, bahut talented hai.
28:21 Jaise Ravan ko dikhaya gaya hai, very talented, very erudite, very influential, very inspiring.
28:28 Woh aapka soch ban kar sakta hai.
28:32 They will not allow you to think independently, they will make you believe that that Shaitan
28:37 is so inspiring ki usko follow karna chahiye.
28:41 And in Rama's world, Rama allows each and every individual to think of his own.
28:49 Hum log bolta hai, maryada purushottam.
28:53 He is called maryada purushottam not because he did the right things.
28:56 He only chose what is his right.
28:58 Aap agree karo, disagree karo, absolutely fine, Rama is taking it.
29:01 Kal devdutt ji aapko bol raha tha ki Rama did not have an ambition.
29:05 Usko kuch nahi chahiye tha, he was just doing his duty.
29:08 Which is the truth of Rama.
29:09 So if you look at Shaitan, the film Oppenheimer, which talks about the making of the worst
29:16 bomb in the world.
29:18 The toh bohot bare scientists na, lekin apna talent galat issamal kiya.
29:23 Ravan.
29:24 And on the other hand, if you try to understand God, Bhagwan, we have to understand that Bhagwan
29:33 woh shagat nahi hai jo ki humare prayers, matlab hum log bolta na, mujhe bahot baise
29:37 chahiye, mujhe exam mein pass kara do, shamko biryani dila do.
29:40 Bhagwan woh karne ke liye nahi baithe hue hai.
29:43 Bhagwan is sitting there to strike a balance between various, so many elements, living
29:49 and non-living, existing, sustaining.
29:52 Bhagwan is trying to thread everything together so that everything can sustain and help each
29:57 other.
29:58 When you understand this about God and you also understand that aapko jo bhi mil raha
30:03 hai ya nahi mil raha hai, that is happening through an automated system which starts with
30:08 your karma.
30:09 Jo aap karte ho, wohi jaake bharte ho.
30:11 Usmein Bhagwan ka kuch nahi hai.
30:12 Aapka saath kuch galat ho raha hai, aisa nahi hai ki Bhagwan aapse kam pyaar karte hai.
30:16 And vice versa.
30:17 That is when you understand this about God, your prayers change.
30:22 You understand that I can do something to help God.
30:26 You understand that, see, Satyarth, you, I, we have come here to this stage with certain
30:33 privileges and if we understand God, if we value God, we will try to understand that
30:40 hume hi yeh privileges kyu mile?
30:43 Humare se zyada talented koi yeh darshakon mein ho sakte hai, right?
30:47 Aur aise bohot se log hai jine apne talent ka kadar nahi mila.
30:50 Agar humein woh privilege diya gaya hai, then it is our duty, isi liye diya gaya hai, Bhagwan
30:54 ne humein isliye chuna hai, shayad, kyuki humare mein woh takat hai ki hum apne saath saath
31:00 doosron ka bhi haath pakad ke unhe upar laa gaye.
31:03 Tabhi humein woh diya gaya hai.
31:05 So if we are believers of God, we will have to dedicate ourselves not towards self-growth
31:11 but a collective growth which in philosophical terms is called spiritual growth.
31:17 That is my understanding of God.
31:18 Speaker (Vikram Chauhan): You know, but this responsibility also comes with its downsides.
31:22 So with an eye on time, quick question and quick answers, how do you, Koral, given that
31:28 you've written so many books in the genre and Satyarth, he's written across genres but
31:32 his next book is going to be in the same genre.
31:35 So hundred tales in one, right?
31:38 So quickly, how do you respond to feedback and personally and how does your work respond
31:43 to it?
31:44 Koral Khanna (Koral Khanna): Feedback, you know, alag-alag tarike ke aate hain.
31:48 There are some who are very, very happy about whatever I'm writing.
31:53 God bless them, you know.
31:56 And then there are few, matlab they are less in numbers but they also exist, jo mujhe kahi
32:01 bari kahete hain ki aapko kuch nahi malo.
32:02 So I agree with them, mujhe actually kuch nahi malo.
32:03 Main toh keh rahi hu ki class 3 level comics se shurwaad hai mera.
32:05 So I agree, mujhe kuch nahi malo, bas book likh rahi hu.
32:12 So I had a feedback.
32:15 So there was one instant message that is very close to my heart.
32:18 So it's a small girl who wrote back saying, you know, when I was a child, my mother used
32:23 to read out stories to me.
32:25 And now my mother has lost her vision.
32:27 So I am reading out mahagatha stories to her.
32:29 So, you know, I think the fact that the book is cutting across generations, cutting across
32:33 hearts.
32:34 I have, you know, a lot of people right here who have been writing to me and who love the
32:38 book.
32:39 So I think what more can an author ask for?
32:40 So thank you so much.
32:41 Also puts a lot of pressure for the next one.
32:43 But yeah, we'll keep trying and we'll do our best.
32:46 Thank you.
32:47 Thank you.
32:48 We've got very little time left.
32:51 So I just want to quickly talk about how I deal with feedback.
32:54 And you know, Samsara is a product of feedback.
32:57 Throughout the 10 years, I've had support from friends, editors, readers, bookstagrammers,
33:03 non-readers, you name it.
33:05 In fact, if you end up grabbing a copy of Samsara, you'll see that on the back cover,
33:09 there's a QR code that gives you access to a discord server where individuals even right
33:13 now many have come together to flesh out what the second book in the series will look like.
33:19 So feedback for me truly is the crux and the cornerstone of Samsara.
33:23 See, we need to learn all this.
33:25 QR code behind a book.
33:27 No, but you know, there are instances where I got contradictory feedback, to be honest.
33:33 And that's when I went back to the scriptures because more than anything, you've retold,
33:37 you know, you've also retold, but I've reimagined, I'm trying to bring the essence of the Rig
33:41 Ved as well.
33:42 Before we end, because you've got very little time, I and I asked Koral and Satyarth to
33:48 say anything that I may have forgotten that you'd like to add.
33:50 I do want to reinstate.
33:51 Okay, we'll take one question.
33:54 We were told that we won't have time for it.
33:56 Can someone please help her with a mic?
33:59 And while that happens, I want to quickly remind everyone that do don't forget to collect
34:04 your copies.
34:05 We, you know, Koral, Satyarth and I will be joining you guys in the tent behind.
34:09 So please don't forget to get your copies signed.
34:13 And yes, please your question.
34:14 Hi, I'm Sikena.
34:15 Hi, I'm Sikena.
34:16 Just one, one question.
34:17 Satyarth, Saksham, Koral ma'am, wonderful story skills you have.
34:24 And I just loved when you all three of you were talking.
34:28 So I wanted to ask, your narratives are very, how do you build that narrative because you
34:34 are telling something that has not existed.
34:36 Your world building skills, it's something that's very different from what has been written.
34:42 But it is a new voice.
34:44 And especially in Saksham's case, actually, because you have built a world that does not
34:48 exist.
34:49 I just want to know.
34:50 I think this applies more to you than us because we are creating that already has been created.
34:53 So we are standing on the shoulders of great giants, but I think his has been a complete
34:56 new world.
34:57 Very good question.
34:58 And yeah, you know, you've recounted, you've retold.
35:01 But in my case, it's the essence of the scriptures and the philosophy that comes through.
35:07 And I try and popularize these very stories that, you know, for the masses.
35:12 Like I said, it's been dubbed as India's answer to Harry Potter.
35:15 So there was an active element of world building and imagination as well involved.
35:18 I'm not going to lie.
35:20 Thank you so much.
35:21 Thank you.
35:22 Thank you so much.
35:23 Thank you, Saksham.
35:24 Thank you.
35:25 Thank you so much.
35:26 Thank you, Saksham.
35:28 [BLANK_AUDIO]