Meet Ashwini Bhide, the woman behind Mumbai's #Metro Line 3 and coastal road.
Watch the MD and Additional Municipal Commissioner of BMC, in a special conversation with Tamanna Inamdar on the occasion of #WomensDay2024. #WomensDay
For the latest news and updates, visit: ndtvprofit.com
Watch the MD and Additional Municipal Commissioner of BMC, in a special conversation with Tamanna Inamdar on the occasion of #WomensDay2024. #WomensDay
For the latest news and updates, visit: ndtvprofit.com
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TVTranscript
00:00 (upbeat music)
00:02 For decades, we've been hearing and talking
00:10 about the Metro man, that is Delhi's Metro man.
00:14 But here in Mumbai, we have our very own Metro woman.
00:18 On the occasion of Women's Day,
00:20 while we of course talk about and feature women
00:23 who are very successful in business, in the corporate world,
00:27 the fact is that running and executing a large project,
00:32 a developmental project, is perhaps even more challenging.
00:36 And today in this exclusive interview,
00:38 I'm speaking with Ashwini Bhide,
00:41 as she's of course, Managing Director
00:43 of the Mumbai Metro Corporation
00:45 and Additional Municipal Commissioner of the BMC.
00:49 So the Mumbai Metro Line 3 and the Coastal Road
00:53 is something Ms. Bhide is going to deliver
00:56 to the financial capital of this city.
00:58 Thank you so much, first of all,
00:59 for speaking with us here on NDTV Profit
01:02 on the occasion of Women's Day.
01:05 I'm not going to start with the cliched question
01:07 of how does it feel to be a woman IS officer?
01:10 Because I'm sure in most cases,
01:12 it's the same as a male IS officer.
01:14 But to spearhead such big projects
01:21 with the backdrop of political headwinds.
01:25 So when you have a business, you have risks.
01:28 Here in the case of such large infrastructural projects,
01:31 the fact is that there is a plan, there is a goal,
01:34 but you don't know what's going to happen
01:35 in the next election.
01:36 Is that the biggest challenge?
01:38 - Yes, I think uncertain or uncharted challenges
01:43 is something which is, I think I would term
01:46 is at the biggest challenge.
01:47 Because the project of this size,
01:49 they already come with some inherent challenges.
01:53 The size is huge, you have to implement these projects
01:56 in a very, very crowded city like Mumbai.
01:58 You need land, you need money, you need to convince people,
02:01 and you need to actually take the risk
02:03 related to construction and deliver the project safely.
02:07 But the challenges are chartered challenges.
02:09 You know what exactly this is going to be
02:12 and you plan for it.
02:14 But in these kinds of projects,
02:15 there are many uncharted challenges
02:16 which you have not anticipated.
02:18 And dealing with them is one of the most difficult things,
02:22 I would say.
02:24 And we have faced many such challenges in this project.
02:28 And that is something which you know,
02:31 you have to decide on the spot what you need to do about it.
02:35 And sometimes they get dragged.
02:37 So how to come up with a solution,
02:40 that becomes the most challenging thing.
02:42 - RA Metro car share was the biggest one.
02:46 It became, I think, a cause for environmentalists.
02:51 - Yes. - That I would put it
02:52 in this uncertainty box, that kind of challenge.
02:57 - But you became sort of painted as the person
03:00 who wanted to push it through
03:01 and didn't care for the environment.
03:03 How tough was that?
03:05 - It was absolutely tough.
03:06 But once you know what your goal is,
03:08 then probably it is easy to deal with that.
03:11 Because having a car depot at RA for this metro line
03:16 is what makes that metro line really efficient
03:20 and real, which can provide real service to the city.
03:23 If you remove the depot from that area
03:27 or that end of the metro,
03:29 then the project completely loses
03:31 its significance and importance.
03:33 So if that is the importance of that location,
03:36 at that, of the depot,
03:39 then it was my duty to fight for it
03:43 and ensure that the project is delivered to the city
03:47 in the manner it was planned for.
03:49 And that is why, but that time we had never thought
03:52 that we will have that kind of an opposition
03:54 from those sections of the society.
03:57 Because the procedure was already followed,
04:00 everything was laid down.
04:02 So this was some kind of an uncertainty which we faced
04:05 and we had to deal with it
04:06 and I had to take that tough stand,
04:09 even at the cost of my personal kind of,
04:14 the problems which I had to face.
04:15 - So you paid the price for that stand,
04:19 for some time you were removed from the metro project,
04:21 then you were brought back,
04:23 you know, all those uncertainties continue.
04:26 How challenging then is it to now get back on track
04:30 and ensure that this project,
04:33 which is very, very crucial
04:35 to Mumbai's transportation structure,
04:37 is delivered on time?
04:38 - There has already been a delay,
04:41 delay of almost two and a half years to three years.
04:45 - Because of RA?
04:46 - Because of RA.
04:47 Because that decision was pending,
04:49 there was a stay for that location
04:52 and unless you have the depot location fixed
04:56 and start working on the depot,
04:58 it becomes very difficult for the rest of the project
05:00 to get completed and get delivered.
05:03 So my challenge when I went back
05:05 was how to reduce that time
05:07 within which we could complete the depot
05:10 and deliver the project.
05:11 Normally depot would take two and a half years to complete,
05:15 the depot of this size,
05:17 but we had to reduce it.
05:18 We had to reduce the number of months
05:20 which were required for the depot
05:22 and ensure that the mainland and depot are connected.
05:26 Because the depot was not there,
05:27 our trains were partly ready at some other location,
05:31 but they were not able to be brought here.
05:34 So all those issues were there.
05:35 Everything, all problems were revolving around the depot.
05:38 So my job was to minimize those project,
05:42 push the depot in the maximum possible manner,
05:46 which we have tried to do.
05:48 And now the depot is almost ready,
05:51 depot connected, the depot charging is happening
05:54 as we speak.
05:55 Mainland, the main line is getting connected to depot.
05:58 Our trial testing has started.
06:01 And we are hopeful that in another three months,
06:04 when we complete all our testing and certification,
06:07 RDSO certification, ISA certification, and CMRS.
06:11 So by end of May or early June,
06:14 the project will be ready for commissioning
06:16 and it will be offered in the service of the citizens.
06:20 - Okay, so by June, July,
06:21 maybe we can actually see this come to life.
06:25 Now, why is this Metro Line 3 important
06:27 in the larger picture?
06:28 - This Metro Line 3 is one of the most important corridors
06:33 of the overall Mumbai's Metro Master Plan.
06:37 But the more importance of this project
06:39 is this is the only corridor
06:40 which connects the northern and central suburbs of Mumbai
06:43 to the island city.
06:45 This is the only corridor which comes to island city.
06:47 All other metro corridors like Line 2, Line 6,
06:52 even Line 7, they get connected to this corridor.
06:55 Similarly, other public transport modes
06:58 like the Central Suburban Railway, Western Railway,
07:02 as well as both the airports,
07:03 they get connected to this corridor.
07:05 And that is why this is the corridor
07:07 which goes into the areas which are today
07:10 largely unconnected by any public transport.
07:13 And these are the areas where there are
07:15 multiple business districts and employment centers,
07:19 educational hubs, and even health hubs,
07:21 the medical hubs are situated.
07:23 And people need to take this route,
07:26 but by using multiple modes of transport,
07:30 which takes longer time for their journey.
07:33 And most of the times they have to travel on roads
07:35 which are extremely congested.
07:36 So their journey time is not only more,
07:39 but the comfort and safety is also compromised.
07:43 So this corridor provides the safer, more comfortable,
07:48 and more modern kind of connectivity
07:51 to all these congested areas of Mumbai.
07:54 - Now comes the cliched question.
07:57 Because we are speaking on the occasion of Women's Day.
07:59 And the fact is that when many people see,
08:04 and our audience, men, women alike, I think,
08:07 see a strong officer who is manning a big project,
08:11 it is inspirational.
08:13 So explain to us whether you had to face some challenges
08:17 because of your gender, how you overcame them,
08:20 and what is your message for people
08:22 who sometimes feel that things are tougher
08:25 because they're women?
08:26 - It is my fortune that I could work
08:32 in urban infrastructure sector for past 15 years almost.
08:36 Before that I was in MMRD,
08:37 and that time it was a new sector.
08:39 And then of course I took responsibility of Metro 3.
08:42 So while working in this sector, I had certain strengths
08:45 because by being a member of Indian Administrative Service
08:50 provided me some strength.
08:52 But my biggest challenge initially,
08:53 which I thought that getting accepted
08:56 as a women leader in a men's world,
08:59 because predominantly it's a men's world,
09:02 that was, first I thought that was my biggest challenge.
09:06 But later on I realized that wasn't,
09:08 because I was easily accepted.
09:10 Another biggest challenge of mine was
09:12 I hardly knew anything about this sector.
09:15 I come from a generalistic service
09:17 and I was handling many other departments
09:20 before I joined here.
09:21 So this was a completely new sector.
09:23 And so I thought whether I would be
09:24 a right kind of leader or not,
09:26 because all others are the experts in that sector,
09:29 while I'm not.
09:31 But that I dealt with in the way
09:35 the people actually accepted me,
09:37 because it works both ways.
09:39 They accepted my leadership and that gave me
09:41 an opportunity to learn most of the thing.
09:43 So I always remained a keen learner and a team leader.
09:48 So it was basically, I never thought that I'm leading them,
09:52 but it was the team which I was leading
09:54 and this team was the team of expert.
09:56 So a lot of things I learned from them,
09:59 but I also provided a completely different
10:02 and out of box perspective to them
10:04 because if you are an expert of a field,
10:07 you have a certain kind of a thought process.
10:10 - Little blinders. - When I came from,
10:12 yeah, from the outside sector,
10:14 so I could join many dots which they couldn't see.
10:18 And in fact, jointly we worked so efficiently
10:22 that many technical issues which couldn't get
10:26 actually implemented on the ground
10:29 for non-technical reasons,
10:31 so that I could give them a solution.
10:34 They could come up with more efficient strategy
10:37 to implement that and this is how the projects when I joined,
10:41 most of these projects were non-starters
10:43 when I joined in MMRD.
10:45 And that time, along with this team,
10:47 which was a great learning path for me,
10:50 but also for them also,
10:52 it was something which they learned from me.
10:54 So it was a very good give and take, I would say,
10:58 and that is why, though I thought
11:01 that these were the challenges,
11:02 but actually they could be easily dealt with
11:06 by having this team approach.
11:09 - (speaking in foreign language)
11:13 I might be as good,
11:25 (speaking in foreign language)
11:29 I have to be better.
11:30 (speaking in foreign language)
11:34 (speaking in foreign language)
11:40 Maybe a common woman,
11:49 even if she's working in a very higher position,
11:53 (speaking in foreign language)
11:58 but (speaking in foreign language)
12:02 (speaking in foreign language)
12:06 You become very cautious of that.
12:25 (speaking in foreign language)
12:29 (speaking in foreign language)
12:33 - What is the most, I would say,
12:40 sexist question you faced?
12:42 Would someone try to mansplain to you
12:46 about a project which you already know,
12:48 or ask you things like,
12:50 (speaking in foreign language)
12:54 - Indirectly, but I don't think
12:56 (speaking in foreign language)
13:00 They accept you as you are,
13:03 as any other officer.
13:05 I mean, the gender doesn't matter
13:07 when you start actually working along with your team.
13:10 (speaking in foreign language)
13:14 - What is the least question you got, ever?
13:19 (speaking in foreign language)
13:24 (speaking in foreign language)
13:28 Only women doesn't do all these things.
13:34 You have a house, and (speaking in foreign language)
13:39 (speaking in foreign language)
13:51 (speaking in foreign language)
13:55 (speaking in foreign language)
14:03 There was one political party, local party,
14:18 (speaking in foreign language)
14:20 He started telling me something,
14:22 how this is to be handled, how that is to be handled.
14:24 (speaking in foreign language)
14:28 (speaking in foreign language)
14:32 It was a patronizing kind of attitude.
14:53 (speaking in foreign language)
14:57 (speaking in foreign language)
15:01 I'm an officer, don't look at me as a women officer.
15:06 (speaking in foreign language)
15:10 But there will be hundreds of such examples,
15:13 where certainly people try to impose the stereotypes
15:16 in their mind on you, and try to extract
15:18 some kind of whining from you.
15:21 (speaking in foreign language)
15:27 (speaking in foreign language)
15:31 What is your advice?
15:34 When you have this subtle kind of patronizing approach,
15:39 like you've said, that oh, you must be finding it so tough
15:42 because you're a woman, trying to paint you
15:44 as a (speaking in foreign language)
15:45 How do you respond to it?
15:47 - I think you should just ignore it.
15:49 Ignore it, and (speaking in foreign language)
15:54 Because these are not the questions for you.
15:56 You start considering yourself as an individual,
16:00 irrespective of your gender.
16:02 (speaking in foreign language)
16:06 Being a woman, you should not have
16:16 some other kind of attributes,
16:18 and I think that you should make very clear.
16:20 (speaking in foreign language)
16:25 (speaking in foreign language)
16:28 Finally, it's a different gender,
16:32 but don't feel guilty about it.
16:34 (speaking in foreign language)
16:38 We should not treat ourself specially,
16:51 and we should not allow others to treat us specially.
16:55 That's what I feel.
16:56 You should, it should be a gender-neutral kind of
16:59 environment which we ourselves should propagate,
17:02 and that's what works, because slowly,
17:04 (speaking in foreign language)
17:07 - When they see a tough response, the questions end.
17:11 But one question I definitely want to ask you
17:13 is about the coastal road.
17:14 We spoke in detail about the metro project,
17:16 and that's huge.
17:17 The coastal road is another one,
17:19 which is now near completion.
17:21 Not without its share of controversy also.
17:24 Do we need a coastal road?
17:26 Is it environmentally viable?
17:28 Is it right to, and all of these questions came.
17:30 They in fact, when the public forum,
17:32 you know, you had to answer them,
17:34 the whole government had to answer them,
17:36 that at the end of the day, is it worth the money
17:40 of the exchequer, the taxpayer that is going?
17:43 Now when it's near completion,
17:45 will it really change the traffic situation,
17:48 the face of Mumbai?
17:49 Will this 10 kilometer or 10 and a half kilometer road
17:53 be the change?
17:54 - It will certainly contribute to the change
17:57 which the city is trying to envisage or see.
18:02 Because Mumbai had a limited road network,
18:06 about 2,050 kilometers only,
18:09 and so many vehicles ply on it.
18:13 Naturally, we need to expand this network,
18:16 but Mumbai being a coastal city,
18:20 being a peninsular city,
18:21 being because of its geographical shape,
18:24 there are limitations in enhancing
18:27 or expanding this road network.
18:31 So coastal road provides a complete addition
18:34 to the existing network.
18:35 Normally you see the existing roads are getting widened,
18:39 but here it provides a completely new connectivity.
18:42 It functions as some kind of a marine ring road,
18:45 which provides a fully access control road
18:48 and a faster connectivity to the city.
18:51 So yes, its cost is slightly higher
18:53 if you compare to the rail-based public transport project,
18:57 but it also serves a larger purpose
19:01 for a city like Mumbai,
19:02 which is already gasping for land.
19:04 Because this particular coastal road
19:06 would reduce traffic time from 15 minutes to 10 minutes
19:10 between Marine Drive to Worli,
19:12 and that itself will reduce the burden on environment
19:15 because there will be less pollution.
19:18 There will be less air pollution,
19:20 there will be less noise pollution,
19:22 more space will be available.
19:23 Additionally, coastal road,
19:25 because it is built on reclaimed land,
19:27 there is some incidental reclamation,
19:29 and because of that 70 hectares of new area
19:33 is being added to the city,
19:34 which is fully getting dedicated to landscaped gardens
19:39 and recreational spaces.
19:41 So I think from that perspective,
19:43 coastal road is really beneficial to the city,
19:46 and now the coastal road will get extended
19:48 up to almost up to Virar.
19:50 So that provides a very, very efficient,
19:54 high-speed connectivity to the city,
19:56 which a financial capital like Mumbai,
20:00 and very, very highly congested,
20:02 or I would say, with highest population density,
20:07 the city with highest population density,
20:09 needs that kind of connectivity.
20:11 - So, you know, whether it's a coastal road
20:13 or it's Metro Line 3, or any large development project,
20:18 there are always questions on part of environmentalists
20:21 and the environment,
20:22 and perhaps the intentions are both, you know?
20:25 But my point is that, what is your response?
20:28 Because on the one hand, global warming, pollution,
20:31 all of that are real issues.
20:33 But on the other hand, you need this development as well.
20:36 - That is true.
20:39 Another point is, this development comes
20:43 with a level of environment.
20:45 It is not that it is not a mindless development.
20:48 The way the projects are planned,
20:50 they are planned taking all environmental aspects into mind.
20:54 But most of the times, in our argumentative society,
20:57 these features of the project are always kept
21:01 at the hiding, and they are not projected.
21:04 When we plan coastal road or even metro,
21:07 so metro itself is a green transport,
21:09 because it saves so much of fuel from burning.
21:14 Metro Line 3 itself will reduce 6.5 lakh vehicle trips
21:18 from the road, and that much fuel consumption will go down.
21:22 So, this rail-based metro projects
21:25 are always considered as green projects,
21:27 and that is why government of India doesn't even ask them
21:31 to get environmental clearance,
21:32 if they are that environmentally friendly.
21:35 A road like coastal road, people will always argue
21:38 that this will give impetus to more vehicles on the road,
21:41 but there will be also a dedicated bus lane on that metro,
21:45 so it will give further encouragement to public transport.
21:50 And roads would anyway, in the process of development,
21:53 connectivity is the key.
21:55 Without connectivity, you can't reach
21:57 from one place to another.
21:58 And unless you do these kinds of projects,
22:01 where will there be a faster, efficient connectivity?
22:04 And without connectivity,
22:05 there will be more congestion on the road,
22:07 more vehicles on the road,
22:09 and that itself will be environmentally detrimental.
22:11 So, these projects, they are planned with lot of,
22:16 after planning or taking into account
22:19 lot of environmental issues.
22:21 A detailed environment impact assessment
22:24 is done for these kinds of projects.
22:26 And even during construction,
22:28 multiple measures to curb the impact on environment
22:32 are taken.
22:33 In fact, mega projects are far better position,
22:37 considering the environmental impact,
22:40 than any other smaller project.
22:42 But what happens, because of the visibility,
22:45 most of the time,
22:46 environmentalists talk more about these projects,
22:50 which are actually required for the city,
22:52 which are done in the most environment-friendly way,
22:54 and they get a backseat.
22:56 Whereas thousands of small projects keep happening
22:59 without giving due attention to environment.
23:02 And that is something which the environmentalists also miss,
23:06 and that is something which the public discourse also misses.
23:09 So, I think we need to take things in its perspective.
23:13 The long-term impact of any project,
23:15 and that needs to be taken into account.
23:18 And besides, had that project not been there,
23:20 what would be the situation of the city?
23:23 What kind of problems citizens would face?
23:26 And what would be the net impact on environment?
23:28 That also needs to be seen.
23:30 - Last question for you, ma'am.
23:31 So, now Coastal Road is expected,
23:33 Metro Line 3 is expected.
23:36 The average citizen sees the whole city dug up,
23:40 one way or the other.
23:41 When is the face of the city going to change?
23:44 - With Coastal Road and Mumbai Metro Line 3
23:47 happening in 2024 itself,
23:51 that the South Mumbai's traffic
23:54 would definitely get far better regulated
23:58 than what it is today.
23:59 In suburbs, there are some other metro projects
24:02 which are going on,
24:03 and they are also in the process of getting completed.
24:06 So, maybe another, if we look at completion
24:10 of Metro Line 2 or Metro Line 4,
24:12 and then all these projects getting connected to each other,
24:16 it would take another couple of years.
24:19 But everything will get slowly completed in a phased manner.
24:22 And Coastal Road's extension, which is happening right now,
24:28 that would take maybe another three to four years,
24:30 because we have to go up to Mirabai, Inder, and even Virar.
24:33 But by then, metro network is getting completed,
24:37 so a lot of traffic will get absorbed
24:39 by the public transport system,
24:42 and then people would feel lesser pinch
24:43 of the other ongoing roadworks.
24:47 So, I think another three to four years,
24:49 Mumbai's transportation scenario will,
24:53 Mumbai's poised for a larger change
24:56 or transformation in its transportation scenario,
24:59 and which is on the way.
25:00 - So, the pain and the wait is going to be worth it,
25:03 and of course, this is the officer who's making it happen.
25:06 Thank you so much.
25:07 - Thank you so much.
25:08 - Ashwini Pideji for speaking with us.
25:10 - Thank you.
25:11 (upbeat music)
25:13 (electronic music)