Is GOP now a 'cult'? Can Haley, Cheney guide conservatives back towards 'values & policy proposals'?
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00:00 And now I'm joined by Caroline Fredrickson. She's a senior fellow at the Brennan Center
00:05 for Justice and she joins us now from Washington, DC. Hello to you and thanks for joining us.
00:11 Thanks for having me.
00:13 So as we heard in that report, Haley is expected now to drop out, assuming she does, will she
00:19 then endorse Donald Trump?
00:20 Well, I think that's a big question. I think she actually has much more leverage if she
00:26 doesn't for the period of time that we face between now and the election. There's a lot
00:35 at stake in terms of those people who really don't like Donald Trump, but don't necessarily
00:39 like Joe Biden either. And I think Nikki Haley has some opportunity to influence those people
00:45 in one direction or another.
00:46 Indeed, they're known sometimes, aren't they, as the anyone but Trumpers, those in the Republican
00:52 Party who really want to make sure Donald Trump is not elected again. Are they a powerful
00:59 minority, would you say now? Might they abstain when it comes to November? Where do those
01:05 voters go?
01:06 Well, they are a very powerful minority. I mean, let's look at how close American elections
01:12 tend to be. And that's a number that could really swing the election very clearly in
01:18 Joe Biden's favor if they either stay home or they come over to his camp. So I think
01:26 it's a very important number for him to look at how high she polled in those primaries.
01:32 I mean, people say it was a wipeout that Donald Trump was so dominant. But let's look at the
01:37 fact that she got, well, she won Vermont. It's obviously not a super significant state.
01:42 But in other states, she got pretty serious percentages. If 20 percent of the voters,
01:47 the Republican base, want to vote for somebody else, that could mean Joe Biden gets reelected.
01:55 Let's talk about the internal machinations of the Republican Party, though, because what
02:03 do you think happens internally now? Is the GOP really the party of Donald Trump? Where
02:09 do the moderates within the GOP now go?
02:13 Well, it's not really clear there's a path for them in the GOP. I think we saw what happened
02:17 to Liz Cheney. Nobody thinks of her as a moderate. She's quite, quite conservative. And yet a
02:25 conservative who doesn't embrace Donald Trump can't be part of that party. It's turned from
02:30 a party of values and policy proposals to a cult. And so I don't think there's really
02:37 a place for them. The question is what happens to the Republican Party going forward once
02:41 there's no longer a Donald Trump? Does it simply collapse or does it reformulate itself
02:46 as something different? That's really unclear. And I think Nikki Haley, along with Liz Cheney
02:52 and some others, could really be the ones who help articulate that path forward.
02:56 Might that look like another party altogether? Is that what you're suggesting?
03:01 Well, it's possible it's another party. I think it's more likely that it's a party that
03:04 kind of comes back to what they would reclaim as Republican values of small government,
03:12 more libertarian, less perhaps populist, and hopefully more committed to rule of law. But
03:22 again, that remains to be seen.
03:25 And just a final question. We are looking then in all likelihood at a Donald Trump,
03:29 Joe Biden rematch. We know that's not what most Americans want. So looking ahead to November,
03:37 do you think that there will be a relatively low turnout in the election or is it just
03:42 too early to say?
03:43 Well, I mean, I think we have to look at some of the midterm results when normally we have
03:47 very low turnout. And yet the issues are so important right now. And we think about the
03:51 ballot initiatives to protect abortion rights that really came on strong in the midterms
03:59 and in special elections. And I think those issues are really going to drive people to
04:02 the polls. And the Supreme Court is a big trigger. I think that's going to be something
04:08 that overcomes a lot of the otherwise apathetic nature of this. You know, these two candidates,
04:15 people don't really love the choice, but they don't love the choice of having basic rights
04:20 eliminated by the Supreme Court either. And so I think that will really make a difference.
04:25 Caroline Fredrickson in DC. It's good to talk to you. Thanks very much.
04:28 Thank you for having me.
04:30 Well, there'll be plenty more election coverage here on France 24 throughout the day and indeed
04:36 a little later on. Jeanne Godula will bring us a special programme she filmed in Trump's
04:42 home state of Florida. That's at 5.45 Paris time.