New York-based writer and columnist Shomik Chaudhuri speaks with Mayank Chhaya on consciousness and human existence | SAM Conversation
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00:00 New York based writer and columnist, Shoumik Choudhury has been a practitioner of Kriya
00:13 Yoga for over four decades, a passion that has underpinned everything that he does, from
00:20 writing to his varied NGO related work, including for the United Nations.
00:25 It has led him to offer training at Harvard and Cornell universities apart from sensitizing
00:31 the United Nations to the importance of spirituality as an essential part of human existence.
00:38 In his latest book, Some Whispers from Eternity, he writes about grand themes such as Om Kriya
00:44 Yoga, consciousness, Koshas and Chakras and what it is that energizes the universe.
00:51 Shoumik spoke to MyAkshaya Reports from New York.
00:55 Welcome to MyAkshaya Reports, Shoumik.
00:57 It's a great pleasure to have you.
01:00 Pleasure is mine.
01:01 Thank you so much for having me.
01:04 Congratulations on your book, Some Whispers from Eternity.
01:11 Thank you.
01:14 The starting point of your book is your concern for the, as you call it, degradation of life
01:21 on earth.
01:22 That's a vast theme.
01:26 How did you manage to tighten the focus so as to make it palatable to a reader?
01:32 Well actually speaking right from childhood, I mean, we were very much focused on inculcating
01:39 certain values which encompass all humanity and we really practiced a lot of time tested,
01:50 you know, I would say practices, austerities from childhood and we saw that over a period
01:57 of, you know, throughout our life, it helped us to change ourselves, change our approach,
02:06 change our mindset and become more inclusive and more compassionate and, you know, we always
02:13 felt like serving people all around the world.
02:17 As you know, I have been working with the United Nations for the last 35 years and,
02:22 you know, through international NGOs initially where we volunteered and then we founded one.
02:30 So we have been talking with, you know, we have special consultative status with ECOSOC.
02:36 So through that we have been presenting recommendations at high level segment meetings on various issues
02:43 like eradication of poverty, environment, women's issues, etc.
02:49 So we have been recommending based on grassroot level experience that we have through our
02:55 projects that how we can help people to come up.
02:59 So basically our entire idea is not to do charity but to empower people at the grassroots
03:06 level and everywhere.
03:08 So this is, of course, the material, you know, empowerment, people becoming more self-reliant,
03:15 more, you know, prosperous, more educated, more aware of what the world is like and how
03:21 they can handle things.
03:23 So that is one aspect.
03:25 But of course, if you want, if we want this transformation and this empowerment to be
03:31 sustainable, the most important thing is values or spirituality.
03:37 Spirituality is something which is the core of our being.
03:41 So until and unless we really nurture that and empower us through spirituality, you know,
03:47 the good qualities, the good tendencies of our being won't get, won't flourish or come
03:54 out.
03:55 And to do that, that is why I said that, you know, my aim is to present this book as a
04:02 means of, you know, helping people understand how they can empower themselves spiritually,
04:09 elevate themselves spiritually and become much better human beings than they were before.
04:16 So that was my idea in this book.
04:22 You have approached this book as sort of a conversation between you and your friend,
04:28 Sadhusradhan, throughout the book, there are exchanges between the two of you over rather
04:33 lofty themes.
04:34 How did you go about giving them the shape of chapters?
04:41 I actually have been thinking that how do you evolve this subject?
04:47 You know, how do you start from the beginning, the basics, and then slowly move on to what
04:53 we ultimately want?
04:56 That is a golden age for humanity.
05:00 So throughout this, I generally went step by step into various aspects of our, you know,
05:07 our existence, and how to evolve ourselves to a higher level of existence.
05:13 And finally, how we can make the whole globe, the whole humanity, you know, usher in a golden
05:23 age.
05:25 The cornerstone of your book is Kriya Yoga, a spiritual system famously brought about
05:31 by Paramhansa Yogananda in his iconic book, Autobiography for Yogi.
05:38 Tell me a bit about that.
05:39 Well, actually speaking, we have been, you know, blessed by, you know, Mahavatar Priyababaji
05:45 must have read about him in Autobiography for Yogi.
05:50 He was Lahiri Mahasaya's guru.
05:53 Now he's someone who has been working behind the scenes with a lot of, you know, spiritual
05:58 people and guiding them, you know, elevating them, encouraging them.
06:03 So we have been very fortunate to get his blessings in the sense that right from childhood,
06:10 we have had, you know, realized saints who used to come to our house and teach us, you
06:17 know, Kriya Yoga, how to do Kriya Yoga, how to elevate one's consciousness to a higher
06:21 level.
06:22 And finally, in 1999, I met my spiritual master.
06:27 He was a divine personality, absolutely divine personality.
06:30 I've never seen anyone like that.
06:33 You know, I have given a description of his personality in the book and also my experience
06:40 with him.
06:41 And he initiated me into Om Kriya Yoga.
06:44 He actually got this initiation from Mahavatar Priyababaji directly from the Himalayas.
06:49 And he gave me the initiation in Om Kriya Yoga.
06:53 And Babaji actually told him that this is a very simplified form of Kriya Yoga, which
06:59 has to be, which should be spread all over the world so that anyone can practice this
07:05 and elevate themselves.
07:07 So that is how this Kriya Yoga started.
07:09 However, I would like to just point out that Kriya Yoga actually is something which the
07:16 Adiyogi Lord Shiva gave it to, gave it to the Saptarishis, the seven rishis many, many
07:22 thousands of years ago.
07:24 Then it somehow got a little lost.
07:27 Then Lord Krishna gave it to Arjun in Bhagavad Gita.
07:31 And then again, it got lost.
07:34 And Mahavatar Priyababaji, he has been famous for bringing this Kriya Yoga into, you know,
07:40 to humanity once again.
07:42 So in my understanding, Kriya Yoga is a combination of all the yogas that Lord Krishna taught
07:49 Arjuna, you know, Karma Yoga, you become a Karma Yogi.
07:53 He's saying Arjuna become a Karma Yogi, do Nishkama Karma, then Gyana Yogi, study as
07:59 much as you can about Shastras and everything that you can and do it to the best of your
08:05 ability.
08:06 Then do Dhyana Yoga, that is meditate and concentrate and try to elevate your consciousness.
08:12 And then you try Bhakti, then you do Bhakti Yoga, you know, which means you have devotion
08:18 for the Lord, because without devotion for the Lord, you will always slip because it's
08:23 a very, very trick, you know, tricky path.
08:27 You know, you can have ego, you can have so many issues.
08:31 But the thing is, if you have devotion to the Lord, you know, there are higher powers,
08:35 of course, and they take care of you and they guide you in through all these, you know,
08:40 tricky situations, they take you, he takes you to the ultimate, you know, realization.
08:47 So I think Kriya Yoga is something which is very important.
08:50 And that is what I have shared in the book in details for the first time for everyone
08:56 to read and practice and elevate themselves.
09:02 One of the many themes that you address involves Koshas and Chakras.
09:11 Explain to me the relationship there, especially between Koshas and Chakras.
09:16 The way I understand from your writing is that there are five Koshas and seven Chakras.
09:21 Tell me, elaborate a bit on that.
09:24 Yes.
09:25 Koshas, actually, they are several layers of our, you know, of our existence.
09:31 First is the Annamaya Kosha, that is the physical body which is made out of food.
09:36 That's why it's called Annamaya Kosha.
09:38 Then Pranamaya Kosha, that is the vital airs, you know, which, you know, the breath and
09:44 everything, the energies that we have.
09:47 Then Manomaya Kosha, that is the mind, you know, that we have.
09:51 Then the Vijnanamaya Kosha, which is the intellect, the intelligence.
09:56 And then the Annamaya Kosha, which is the core of our existence, which is the bliss
10:00 body.
10:01 So these are the various levels, the various bodies that we have.
10:07 And that is called the Koshas also.
10:09 As far as the Chakras are concerned, there are actually 114 Chakras in the body.
10:15 Two of them are, you know, outside the body and 112 are inside the body.
10:21 So they are all over the place.
10:23 So they are actually energy centers all over the body.
10:27 So based on those energy centers, you know, the entire body functions or entire, you know,
10:34 our existence functions.
10:37 So there are seven main Chakras and there are minor and medium Chakras also.
10:43 There are 21, I think, you know, semi important Chakras and 86 minor Chakras and seven main
10:52 Chakras.
10:53 These are the Chakras.
10:54 These are the energy centers.
10:55 But we generally focus on the seven Chakras, which are the main ones in the spine area.
11:01 Right.
11:04 You also have rather elaborate conversations about how Hindu temples are so intrinsic to
11:12 our existence as a whole, not just as places of worship.
11:17 Let's talk a bit about that.
11:19 Yes.
11:20 Actually, you see, when I talk about temples, I'm talking about the ancient Vedic temples
11:25 because they were based on the vastu, which is the science of, you know, you know, direction
11:33 and everything.
11:34 I mean, how, you know, temples should be built in which direction, where it should be built.
11:40 So all these things, it was based on vastu.
11:42 And due to that, you know, the temples used to be very, very energized because it was
11:48 a science which was used to construct the temple.
11:50 It was not arbitrary, just building a temple.
11:53 No, everything was very, very scientific.
11:56 So based on that, there are a few things which used to happen.
12:00 First, you can go to any ancient temple, you know, really ancient temples like Tirupati
12:06 and all these temples, you will find a very, very high level of positive energy.
12:12 So primarily, they were places where people used to go for gaining positive energy.
12:20 So to elevate themselves, you know.
12:23 So then later on, of course, the temples became the hub of, you know, the community events,
12:33 you know, arts and sciences, you know, studies and research, all these things, everything
12:40 was around the temple.
12:42 So temple used to be the center of the entire community over there.
12:46 So in that way, it was very important not only to elevate yourself, but also to empower
12:52 yourself with knowledge and everything.
12:58 On the one side, there is the overarching spiritual ambience that you're talking about.
13:04 On the other, there is a famous example that you talk about of Sri Padmanabha temple with
13:09 its fabulous treasures amassed over a couple of millennia and now reputedly worth hundreds
13:17 of billions of dollars, perhaps even a trillion dollars, as you point out.
13:20 Although, I mean, I have no personal way of ascertaining that.
13:24 Tell me about that particular temple because I know it was extensively reported on some
13:29 time ago in the media.
13:32 Look, I mean, before, you know, for thousands of years, India was the richest country in
13:42 the world, you know.
13:43 They were successful in trade, in everything.
13:47 And India itself had a lot of resources, you know, minerals and metals and everything.
13:52 So India was a very, very rich country.
13:56 And till I think 8th century AD, India's or even later, India's share in the global GDP
14:03 was 33%.
14:05 Even before the British came, it was about 25%.
14:09 And when the British left, it was three or 4%.
14:12 So I mean, that is something which is a fact.
14:14 Now, what used to happen in ancient temples, the kings of the rulers and the kings over
14:21 there, they used to donate.
14:23 Why not only for, you know, just to amass wealth, but to as a resource for the temple
14:30 to do service, to feed the poor, to educate the people, to teach, you know, arts and sciences,
14:39 everything.
14:40 So the entire community used to benefit from the temple.
14:43 So that is why the temples were so, you know, rich.
14:47 And of course, India had a lot of wealth.
14:50 The kings had a lot of wealth.
14:51 So they shared it for the welfare of the people.
14:54 So that's exactly how the accumulation of the wealth happened.
14:57 And so Padmanabha temple is one example where, you know, the wealth is tremendous.
15:03 It has been, you know, accumulating for probably millennia.
15:07 And that is something which, of course, recently came out when, you know, the government, I
15:12 think, opened, forcefully opened one of the chambers and found, you know, untold wealth
15:19 over there.
15:20 And so that is something, you know, which is an example.
15:25 Among other themes that you talk about is consciousness.
15:32 Again, a vast subject, particularly relevant now, given the rise of artificial intelligence
15:38 and growing anxiety at some point, AI could become sentient and even conscious.
15:45 What's your take on that?
15:46 Because if it begins to rival humans as a technical species as capable of wealth, we
15:53 are in for serious trouble.
15:55 I believe so.
15:56 I mean, you know, I mean, if we are creating artificially a lot of things and we cannot
16:02 manage that, then we'll get into trouble, definitely.
16:06 Absolutely.
16:07 So it is a matter of concern that how you handle it, you know.
16:11 So I think it totally rests on the people who are working with this.
16:17 I don't have complete knowledge on artificial intelligence in terms of the scope and how
16:24 they are going to handle it.
16:26 But until and unless they handle it with responsibility and properly, I think it can be counterproductive
16:32 in terms of, you know, the future of mankind.
16:37 Right.
16:39 You write that for you, consciousness is the non-physical energy that makes it aware
16:45 of everything and it permeates the entire creation.
16:49 Elaborate a bit on that.
16:52 Actually you see, in the scriptures, in Srimad Bhagavatam and all, it talks about, you know,
17:03 Lord Vishnu having a sleep and dreaming about this creation.
17:09 So I believe that this is a reference to the creation of consciousness.
17:17 You know, consciousness is a very, very subtle, most energy, subtle energy, which makes us
17:23 aware, you know.
17:25 So that is what consciousness is all about.
17:28 In fact, the Vedanta also talks about consciousness in similar words.
17:34 And you know, that is something which permeates the whole creation because this whole creation
17:39 is, you know, a play of consciousness.
17:43 From consciousness, you know, the various stages are attained and finally the material
17:49 stage comes.
17:51 And that is how the material creation has happened.
17:54 So everything starts from consciousness and comes down to the material world.
17:59 And again, it will go back to consciousness.
18:02 So I'll tell you something.
18:04 I was reading about, you know, quantum interference, I believe.
18:09 So there they are saying that if you talk something on Earth, you know, it will have
18:16 some effect in the furthest galaxies, the furthest stars in the universe, which says,
18:22 which I mean, they are trying to say that that means that we are all one.
18:28 And that is something which our scriptures have spoken about thousands and thousands
18:32 of years ago, that we are one.
18:35 Everything is one.
18:36 It goes back to one and it emerges from one.
18:40 And so actually we are one.
18:42 It's a manifestation of the one.
18:46 And before I let you go, Shoumik, tell me how the book is doing.
18:51 I'm very curious to know because this is it's it's an intense read.
18:56 It requires a great deal of focus.
18:59 How is it doing?
19:01 I am hoping that, you know, it will do well.
19:05 I mean, in fact, you know, they have just started the marketing about a month ago.
19:10 And from what I heard from one, you know, mainstream media in Pennsylvania, they said
19:18 that apparently the book was ranked three, number three among thousands of books that
19:23 were published in the US in the month of November when my book was published.
19:28 So in that sense, I would say that it'll probably, you know, do successfully.
19:34 It'll take a little time because now, you know, they have just started the marketing.
19:39 Then internationally, we have to market so that people all around the world come to know
19:44 about this and they can learn this.
19:46 So I'm hoping I'm very optimistic that, you know, it is something which which will probably
19:52 help people a lot.
19:55 And finally, you know, I believe that this is something which I have, you know, offered
20:01 as a prayer to my spiritual master, you know, as a service to humanity.
20:07 So I have, you know, done my part and it is up to the higher powers to see that it, you
20:12 know, goes to as many people as possible and helps as many people as possible.
20:17 [ Silence ]