Alistair Grant and Rachel Amery discuss First Minister’s Questions in Holyrood
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00:00 [MUSIC PLAYING]
00:03 Hello, I'm Alistair Grant.
00:10 I'm the political editor of The Scotsman,
00:12 and I'm joined by Rachel Aymory, The Scotsman's
00:14 political correspondent.
00:15 And we're here in the garden lobby of Holyrood
00:18 just a few minutes after the end of First Minister's Questions,
00:21 where it's fair to say there was two main issues.
00:23 The recent-- actually, published today, Audit Scotland report
00:27 into the NHS in Scotland and the future of the NHS,
00:31 and the kind of rally between Labour and the SNP
00:35 over oil and gas and over the future of the North Sea.
00:39 Rachel, what did you make of--
00:40 Douglas Ross went in on that Audit Scotland report
00:43 into the NHS.
00:44 What did you make of the exchange between him
00:45 and Humza Yousaf?
00:46 Yes, quite a fiery exchange, as it always
00:48 is in First Minister's Questions, of course.
00:50 But yes, Douglas Ross had the Audit Scotland report
00:52 in his hands and was sort of waving it
00:54 in the First Minister's face there.
00:56 But it's quite a damning report as well.
00:57 Often, Audit Scotland reports can
00:59 be quite conservative languages used, quite safe language,
01:03 because it's about money.
01:04 But this was quite a stark report
01:05 with lots of very worrying warnings about how the NHS is
01:08 not sustainable.
01:09 There's not a vision for the future.
01:11 That was a line that Douglas Ross
01:12 kept repeating over and over again at FMQs today.
01:15 So it was really a good chance for Douglas Ross
01:17 to really attack the government on this bit
01:19 here, because it's not just post-pandemic or pandemic
01:22 things that this Audit Scotland report was warning about.
01:24 It's the past 10 years of Scotland's NHS.
01:27 So it wasn't a good report at all for the government.
01:31 But I think anybody who has been involved in health care,
01:33 whether they're working in health care
01:35 or they're using health care services or their relative is,
01:37 this report probably does not come as much of a surprise
01:39 to them.
01:39 They probably are already well aware of just how bad things
01:42 are in the NHS just now.
01:43 But having it as an Audit Scotland report
01:45 obviously gives it a bit more context,
01:46 particularly when it comes to the finances of the NHS.
01:49 I thought it was interesting that Humza Yousaf very much
01:51 accepting that things are not rosy in the health service,
01:53 pointing to the impact, for example, of the pandemic,
01:57 but also launching quite a staunch defence of the SNP's
02:01 record when it comes to the NHS.
02:02 He was listing things like record funding,
02:05 record levels of staffing, also pointing
02:07 to the situation in England, where he says that Scotland
02:10 is performing better.
02:11 So very much trying to push back on those suggestions
02:14 that the SNP have not handled the health service well.
02:17 Yes, often this happens whenever we speak about the NHS
02:20 at our First Minister's questions.
02:22 We get the government saying, well, look,
02:24 we have had any strike days in Scotland.
02:25 We've not had better paid staff in Scotland,
02:28 et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
02:29 This is often what we see in First Minister's questions.
02:31 That will be cold comfort to all these people
02:33 who are on waiting lists or who are stuck in hospital
02:35 without a care package, for example, there.
02:37 I did think it was quite interesting as well.
02:38 They mentioned the fact that they have national treatment
02:41 centres now in Scotland, which are helping to drive down
02:44 these waiting lists.
02:45 Of course, earlier this week, it was
02:47 announced that loads of new buildings within the NHS,
02:49 including a number of new treatment centres,
02:51 are now being delayed because there's no money left.
02:53 I thought it was quite interesting
02:54 that national treatment centres got brought up
02:57 when it was announced that quite a few of them
02:59 are now not going to be built in the next couple of years,
03:01 as was promised.
03:02 And on to Scottish Labour leader Anas Sarwar.
03:04 And it was quite an extraordinary rally
03:06 between him and First Minister Humza Yousaf.
03:09 Humza Yousaf was up in Aberdeen earlier on this week
03:12 talking to the oil and gas industry,
03:13 talking to the North Sea sector.
03:16 And effectively, Anas Sarwar had asked
03:18 why Humza Yousaf is not backing Labour's plans
03:20 to extend and increase the windfall tax.
03:24 And Humza Yousaf was effectively accusing him
03:25 of risking 100,000 jobs in the sector.
03:28 It was quite a fierce exchange between the two of them.
03:31 It really was.
03:32 I think they were both trying to pin this
03:34 on the cost of living crisis.
03:35 So Anas Sarwar was saying these energy company profits going up
03:40 is going to hit people's energy bills,
03:41 whereas Humza Yousaf was saying that he's
03:43 concerned about these jobs that potentially will
03:45 be going in the North Sea.
03:46 So both concerned about the cost of living crisis,
03:48 just two different ways of how they're
03:49 thinking about it at the moment.
03:51 But it was a very fiery exchange.
03:52 Humza Yousaf seemed quite confident in his response.
03:55 He seemed quite comfortable arguing about the oil and gas
03:57 industry here.
03:58 Perhaps because he's been in Aberdeen this week,
03:59 it seemed to go down quite well.
04:01 Because this debate between Anas Sarwar and Humza Yousaf
04:03 turned into a general election pitch from both sides, really,
04:07 with both of them listing the pledges
04:09 that they would put forward in their manifestos
04:11 and almost egging each other on, saying,
04:13 can't wait to stand against you in the election.
04:16 Can't wait to see how Aberdeen receives us
04:18 at the general election polls and things like that.
04:20 So it kind of descended into more of a general election
04:23 sort of bashed into.
04:24 Yeah, it was quite notable that Anas Sarwar was saying,
04:27 I can't wait to put this choice to the Scottish people,
04:30 accusing Humza Yousaf of siding with these energy companies
04:33 that are making billions.
04:35 And Humza Yousaf saying, I can't wait
04:36 to put this to the people of Aberdeen,
04:39 essentially, very confident of their chances
04:41 in the Northeast.
04:41 I think this is quite an extraordinary position
04:45 that the SNP and Humza Yousaf have got into with this.
04:48 I mean, if you think back to their rhetoric on oil and gas
04:51 in recent years, particularly under Nicola Sturgeon,
04:54 they were not seen as favourable to the oil and gas sector
04:57 at all.
04:58 Even recently, Humza Yousaf has made clear
05:00 that they don't support things like Rosebank.
05:03 But then in the Holyrood Chamber today,
05:05 he was effectively saying to Anas Sarwar,
05:07 are you accusing OEUK, the offshore industries trade
05:11 body, of lying when they talk about this number of jobs
05:14 being at risk and the potential impact of this?
05:16 You could equally turn that around and say, well,
05:19 Humza Yousaf, you're not trusting
05:20 what they say on Rosebank.
05:21 So it's quite a strange balancing act
05:24 he's trying to do at the moment.
05:25 It's like you said, the SNP historically
05:27 have not always been the oil and gas industry's best friends
05:30 when it comes to politics.
05:31 But perhaps-- maybe I'm just being cynical here--
05:33 but we have seen polling that suggests the SNP,
05:36 while losing a lot of seats in Scotland,
05:38 will still fare quite well in the Northeast and the Moray
05:40 area as well.
05:41 So perhaps they're thinking this is an area
05:43 we can concentrate on in the general election.
05:45 This is where we can target some of our votes
05:46 because we've got a better chance here.
05:48 Let's go and see what we can do to back up the oil and gas
05:50 industry and the jobs that are there.
05:51 Perhaps that's what the thinking is behind it.
05:53 Yeah, and I think you could see the Greens behind them
05:56 in the Holyrood Chamber.
05:57 Obviously, there's a power sharing arrangement
05:59 between the SNP and the Greens and the Scottish government.
06:02 This will not be comfortable terrain for the Greens.
06:04 But notably, Humza Yousaf's argument is always
06:06 that they need to accelerate this just transition
06:09 to green energy.
06:10 So it's a balancing act that I think
06:12 we should see more of.
06:13 I don't think you're being cynical at all.
06:15 I think it is definitely an element of electioneering
06:17 in this.
06:18 And yeah, we'll probably see more of it
06:20 in the weeks and months to come.
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