First Ministers Questions with Humza Yousaf at the Scottish Parliament
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00:00 (upbeat music)
00:02 - Hello and welcome to the Scotsman's Politics Show
00:10 for another week.
00:11 We're here to wrap up First Minister's Questions.
00:14 My name's Dale Miller, I'm Head of News at the Scotsman
00:17 and I'm joined by our political editor, Alistair Grant.
00:20 And Alistair, there was a bit of news
00:22 that broke on Michael Matheson just about
00:25 as FMQs was due to start
00:27 and it dominated proceedings again.
00:30 - Yeah, so this is obviously the story
00:31 of Michael Matheson's 11,000 pounds data roaming bill
00:35 on his iPad that was racked up
00:37 during a family holiday in Morocco.
00:39 Last week, we obviously had that emotional statement
00:43 by the health secretary to the Scottish Parliament
00:45 where he essentially said that this bill had been racked up
00:48 by his teenage children who were watching,
00:51 using the iPad as a hotspot to watch football matches
00:54 while they were on holiday.
00:56 He had previously been unaware of this.
00:59 He says, so this is kind of,
01:01 this holiday happened over the new year period,
01:03 11 months ago.
01:05 Initially, the Scottish Parliament had footed the bill
01:07 for this 11,000 pounds,
01:09 but Michael Matheson then paid back that amount
01:12 after he had become aware of his children's involvement.
01:16 But it took him a few days to then kind of reveal that
01:19 to the Parliament and to the media.
01:21 And he was asked about this in kind of the days immediately
01:23 after he found out about his children's involvement
01:25 and had kind of said there was no personal use,
01:28 said no one else had used the iPad,
01:30 was very much sticking to that story
01:31 about it being all to do with this SIM card
01:35 that he hadn't upgraded to the new data provider
01:38 and the iPad, and he'd been doing parliamentary work
01:40 on the device.
01:42 So there's no accusations that he's essentially lied,
01:45 that he's misled the public, that he's misled the media.
01:49 And this came up again today at First Minister's Questions.
01:51 And shortly before that happened in the chamber,
01:55 we had an update from the Scottish Parliamentary
01:57 Corporate Body, which is a cross-party group of MSPs
02:00 that essentially oversees the running
02:02 of the Scottish Parliament.
02:03 Where Michael Matheson had self-referred himself
02:06 to the corporate body during his statement last week,
02:11 basically allowing them the chance to investigate this
02:13 if they wanted.
02:14 And we then had an update from them a couple of days ago
02:16 where they said that there wasn't really a mechanism
02:18 to self-refer yourself, this hasn't happened before.
02:22 And so there's kind of question marks
02:23 over whether they were going to open a probe.
02:25 - I welcome the decision by the corporate body,
02:28 which falls on my writing to them last week,
02:31 asking them to investigate this matter.
02:33 Of course, I'll fully cooperate with their investigation,
02:36 and it wouldn't be appropriate for me to comment further.
02:39 Will that matter?
02:39 - Do you only aim to tell the truth, Michael Matheson?
02:42 Do you only aim to tell the truth?
02:45 - But they've essentially decided
02:46 that they are going to look into this now.
02:47 So they're going to investigate it.
02:49 That will be carried out by the corporate body itself.
02:51 And essentially, I understand that the process will be
02:54 that they will establish the facts,
02:56 and then they could refer this on
02:59 to the Standards Committee in Holyrood
03:02 to look at any potential action
03:04 that would be taken on the back of that.
03:05 I think the only thing the corporate body can really do
03:07 is withhold resources from MSPs.
03:10 So there's kind of, I think there's further questions
03:12 about what exactly the process of that investigation will be.
03:16 But Douglas Ross, the Scottish Conservative leader,
03:18 very much bringing this up again
03:20 at First Minister's questions.
03:21 He brought it up last week.
03:22 He was going in on it again.
03:24 He obviously viewed this as a weak point for Humza Yousaf.
03:27 They view Michael Matheson as vulnerable.
03:30 He's a senior government minister.
03:31 Obviously, the health secretary
03:32 is one of the most important roles in government.
03:35 Douglas Ross very much drawing attention
03:38 to the statements that he'd made in the aftermath,
03:41 the initial aftermath of this story breaking two weeks ago,
03:44 and trying to kind of put the question to Humza Yousaf
03:46 as to whether or not he still believed
03:48 this was a legitimate expense claim,
03:50 which is what Humza Yousaf had said
03:52 in the days following the story initially breaking.
03:55 Humza Yousaf accusing Douglas Ross of political opportunism.
03:59 But we also had Scottish Labour leader, Anna Sarwar,
04:03 going in on this as well,
04:04 and drawing attention to remarks that Shona Robison,
04:07 the deputy first minister,
04:08 had made on the radio this morning,
04:10 where she'd said, "It's always the aim
04:12 "of Scottish government ministers to tell the truth."
04:15 And Anna Sarwar essentially saying, "That's not enough.
04:17 "It shouldn't just be the aim.
04:18 "You should just tell the truth
04:20 "in your role as a government minister."
04:22 So I think this is an issue that's obviously not going away.
04:25 We're on day 15 of this round now, if you can believe it.
04:28 It's been more than two weeks now.
04:29 And if the Scottish government's hope
04:31 is that essentially the media are gonna get bored of this,
04:34 the public will get bored of it,
04:35 and people will just move on,
04:37 then that's not happened so far.
04:38 We've now got this investigation process
04:41 that will have to run its course,
04:43 which will mean this issue continues
04:46 for as long as that's going on for.
04:48 And perhaps the government is right.
04:49 Perhaps eventually people will just get bored of it
04:51 and people will move on,
04:52 but it's not looked good for the government so far.
04:55 And this is a very tricky first minister's questions
04:57 for Humza Yousaf.
04:58 He looked very uncomfortable during the entire thing,
05:00 I thought.
05:01 - Alistair, it feels like death by a thousand cuts
05:05 at the moment.
05:06 I mean, you mentioned how long it's already run across.
05:08 Are the SMP and Michael Matheson running out
05:11 of a bit of road on this one?
05:13 Because the longer it drags out,
05:16 the worse it looks PR-wise for them.
05:19 - As I say, I think they're just hoping
05:20 that it will go away,
05:22 that eventually people will get bored of it.
05:24 And perhaps, as I say,
05:25 perhaps that will be the case eventually.
05:27 But I think it is looking bad for them.
05:28 You know, it's not been a good look for them
05:31 to stand up and have their positions shifting.
05:34 Michael Matheson essentially did.
05:36 Why, or at least mislead the media
05:38 when he initially answered questions
05:40 after he'd found out about his children's involvement
05:43 in the iPad use.
05:45 He effectively misled the media on that.
05:47 And for a senior Scottish government minister
05:49 to be doing that, I think is quite serious,
05:52 particularly one in such an important role.
05:54 And I think obviously,
05:56 what probably remains to be seen,
05:57 what happens in the back of this investigation process.
06:00 I think that will probably be the key,
06:02 whether the Scottish parliamentary corporate body decides,
06:05 if they decide to send this to the standards committee,
06:08 what it decides.
06:09 So I think it's got a little way left to run.
06:12 And I think Michael Matheson's position is by no means safe.
06:15 - And Alistair, just lastly,
06:17 I know that Anas Sawa brought it around to transparency.
06:21 He referenced exchanges between Humza Yousaf
06:24 and his team or his office over those energy windings
06:28 and an exchange of messages between the two
06:32 to try and justify the statistics
06:35 that had been used by Humza
06:37 and by the Scottish government.
06:38 It's tying into a bigger picture, isn't it?
06:41 That transparency, and we've written about this
06:43 as the Scotsman for a couple of years now,
06:46 it seems to be a weak point for the government.
06:49 It's not a fair assessment.
06:50 - Yeah, I mean, I think it's something
06:53 that's coming up again and again.
06:54 It's something that they, particularly with those wind stats,
06:56 they've kind of struggled to come up with a coherent narrative
06:59 as to why they were still advancing them
07:01 when by all accounts,
07:02 they knew that they were at least misleading.
07:05 So I think it's becoming a real problem for them.
07:07 And I think the opposition parties love highlighting this.
07:10 They love bringing it up.
07:11 The first minister's questions
07:12 'cause it ties into this narrative of secrecy
07:15 of the Scottish government,
07:16 quote unquote, "covering things up"
07:18 and kind of being secretive in its dealings.
07:21 And that is something that is a problem for the government
07:24 when that narrative starts to build.
07:26 I think it's something that all governments face,
07:28 but it's particularly something that in recent years,
07:32 we've been seeing more and more opposition politicians
07:34 highlighting this when it comes to the SNP.
07:38 - You can read all the latest about the probe
07:41 into Michael Matheson at scotsman.com.
07:44 We've also got a full recap of what happened at FMQs.
07:49 There's a live blog, you can dip into that
07:50 and read blow for blow exactly what happened
07:54 in the exchanges we've discussed today.
07:56 Please follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.
07:59 And for all your politics news,
08:01 go to the politics tab in the sites navigation.
08:05 Thanks very much for joining us.
08:06 - Thanks very much for joining us.
08:08 - Cabinet secretary, that concludes general questions.
08:11 It's time to move on to the next item of business,
08:13 which is first minister's question.
08:16 And I call question number one, Douglas Ross.
08:18 - Thank you, Presiding Officer.
08:20 And I understand the corporate body have announced
08:23 that an investigation is going to be launched
08:25 into the health secretary's expense claims.
08:28 And while that investigation is welcome,
08:31 the health secretary still needs to come forward
08:33 to this parliament to give full answers.
08:36 And the first minister must give us frank responses today.
08:41 So for a moment, let's set aside the doubts
08:44 about Michael Matheson's latest story
08:46 on how he racked up a massive bill
08:49 on his phone while on holiday.
08:51 If we believe the unbelievable,
08:53 if we suspend our disbelief,
08:55 if we assume this fable is true just for one minute,
08:59 it still doesn't explain why back in February,
09:03 Michael Matheson claimed 11,000 pounds of taxpayers' money
09:08 for a bill he couldn't account for.
09:11 He promised parliament, he gave written assurances
09:15 this bill was the result of constituency work
09:18 and only constituency work.
09:21 His new version of events proves beyond doubt
09:24 that that claim was false.
09:27 The first minister said this was a legitimate expense.
09:31 Does he still believe that?
09:33 First minister.
09:35 - Well, let's remember of course the fact
09:37 that when Michael Matheson discovered,
09:39 after speaking again to his family,
09:42 to his teenage boys, after it was told to him
09:44 the use of the iPad, which Michael Matheson
09:47 of course laid out in full in a personal statement last week,
09:50 Michael took the immediate decision
09:52 to pay back the full amount.
09:54 Michael Matheson has made,
09:57 Michael Matheson has made mistakes
10:01 in the handling of this issue.
10:02 That is something that he has admitted to.
10:05 And what I thought was a very emotional statement
10:07 to this chamber, he gave the reasons why,
10:11 because he wanted to protect his teenage boys
10:14 from frankly the harsh political and public scrutiny
10:17 that often comes with the roles that we occupy.
10:21 But on discovering from his teenage boys what happened,
10:25 he agreed to immediately pay back the full amount.
10:28 Let me read a quote from an STV interview.
10:32 "I'm sorry, it was a big mistake.
10:35 "It's something that shouldn't have happened,
10:37 "but I am ultimately the only person responsible for that.
10:40 "This was a big mistake by me, for which I'm deeply sorry.
10:44 "I know how badly I performed here
10:46 "and how much I've let people down.
10:48 "And for that, I'm very sorry."
10:51 Forgive me, this was a quote from Douglas Ross
10:54 when he failed to declare 28,000 pounds of income,
10:58 Presiding Officer.
11:00 Now, the point here is that we didn't call
11:05 for Douglas Ross to quit.
11:07 We accepted, of course, the point
11:09 that he had made an honest mistake.
11:11 And the hypocrisy here, Presiding Officer,
11:13 that people will see through is that Douglas Ross says
11:16 it's fine for him to make an honest mistake,
11:18 but not fine for Michael Matheson
11:20 to make an honest mistake.
11:22 So we will not get distracted
11:24 by Douglas Ross's political opportunism
11:27 that Health Secretary is getting on with the job
11:29 of ensuring that our health service recovers
11:31 through what will be a difficult winter, Presiding Officer.
11:33 - To require briefer questions and responses, Douglas Ross.
11:38 - Thank you, Presiding Officer.
11:39 Let's be very clear.
11:41 My apology, which was full and frank,
11:44 was about not declaring something.
11:46 Michael Matheson tried to dupe the taxpayer
11:50 out of 11,000 pounds.
11:53 (audience laughing)
11:54 11,000 pounds he wanted the taxpayer to pay.
11:58 And isn't that the reason why the First Minister
12:00 couldn't answer my question?
12:01 And since he didn't, let's put it there again.
12:04 The First Minister previously said
12:06 it was a legitimate expense claim.
12:09 Does he still believe that?
12:11 Because Michael Matheson did claim
12:13 that 11,000 pounds from the taxpayer
12:16 and promised Parliament it was for constituency work.
12:19 But his story has changed.
12:22 Now we're supposed to believe that he didn't understand
12:24 why he had been billed so much, that he was clueless.
12:27 Michael Matheson supposedly didn't know anything about it,
12:31 but he was certain it was the taxpayer's problem
12:34 and their bill to pay.
12:36 So First Minister, if he had no idea what the bill was for,
12:40 why on earth did he claim taxpayers to pay it?
12:44 - First Minister.
12:44 - First, the motivations for Michael's actions last week,
12:52 before his personal statement.
12:56 - I'm not sure why I'm--
12:57 - First Minister, can I ask you to resume your seat?
13:00 Mr. Ross, Mr. Swinney,
13:03 I would expect better behavior from both of you.
13:06 We need to hear the answers from the First Minister.
13:09 We need to hear the questions as well.
13:11 First Minister, please resume.
13:12 - Well, they clearly don't want to hear the answers.
13:15 That is the exact point.
13:17 You can hear, they really don't want to hear the answers.
13:23 Again, Michael Matheson,
13:25 in what I would say was a very emotional personal statement
13:28 to this chamber,
13:30 laid out in full detail the handling of the issue
13:35 in relation to the expenses in relation to his iPad.
13:38 And he was clear that he should have handled it better.
13:41 I agree with that.
13:42 He, of course, on discovery of the fact
13:45 that his iPad had been used by his teenage boys,
13:49 agreed immediately to pay back the full amount.
13:54 Now, look, as a father of two children,
13:57 including a teenager myself,
14:00 I can understand the motivation to protect your family.
14:03 But I agree with others in this chamber
14:05 that it should not have been handled in this way.
14:09 And Michael Matheson, of course, admitted to that.
14:12 Now, what Michael Matheson,
14:13 after making that personal statement,
14:14 has been getting on with is the job of health secretary.
14:17 That's why on Monday he chaired Fourth Valley's annual review.
14:22 That's why this week he's announced £42 million
14:26 for an extra 153 doctor training places,
14:29 the largest expansion on record.
14:32 It's why he visited Glasgow Caledonian University's
14:36 School for Life and Health Sciences.
14:39 It's why he met this week the Royal College of Nursing.
14:43 Because as much as Douglas Ross,
14:45 as much as the Conservatives want to distract him,
14:48 what I've got is a health secretary
14:50 that's getting on with the job.
14:52 - I am going to have to require
14:54 briefer questions and responses.
14:56 Douglas Ross.
14:57 - We've got a health secretary
14:58 who claimed £11,000 from the taxpayer
15:01 and a First Minister who won't simply answer,
15:04 "Was that a legitimate claim to make or not?"
15:07 Michael Matheson is taking the public for fools.
15:11 He supposedly found out on Thursday, two weeks ago,
15:15 what really happened.
15:17 He apparently learned at that stage
15:18 that there was personal use of the iPad
15:21 and other people had incurred the data costs.
15:25 But the following Monday,
15:26 Michael Matheson was asked point blank
15:29 if there was any personal use of the iPad.
15:32 He said, "No."
15:34 He was asked directly if anyone else had used it.
15:38 He said, "No."
15:40 First Minister, was the health secretary telling the truth
15:43 when he gave those answers?
15:44 First Minister.
15:45 - Again, I will say for the third time,
15:48 Michael Matheson accepts and admits and admitted
15:51 to this chamber that he made mistakes in the handling.
15:54 And Douglas Ross is shouting to me,
15:56 "Why?"
15:56 Michael Matheson once again addressed that
15:59 because he did what he did to protect his teenage boys.
16:02 Did he make mistakes?
16:04 Absolutely.
16:05 Has he admitted that?
16:06 Absolutely.
16:07 Has he agreed to pay back the full amount?
16:09 Absolutely.
16:10 And isn't it telling, Presiding Officer,
16:13 that Douglas Ross wants to talk about the health secretary?
16:16 What he doesn't want to talk about
16:18 is the savage cuts the UK government
16:21 have unleashed on the health service
16:23 through yesterday's autumn statement.
16:25 Let me read.
16:26 If you want to listen to those in the health service,
16:30 Presiding Officer,
16:31 let's hear from the RCN's chief nurse,
16:34 Professor Nicola Ranger.
16:37 She said the autumn statement is short-sighted,
16:40 that the NHS faces a multi-billion pound deficit.
16:45 They don't want to hear from nurses, Presiding Officer.
16:49 They want to try to distract.
16:50 They want to try to deflect.
16:52 They want to try to dodge away from the fact
16:54 that their autumn statement has led to savage cuts
16:58 to the health service.
16:59 Well, we won't let them forget, Presiding Officer.
17:01 Douglas Ross.
17:01 Douglas Ross.
17:02 (audience applauding)
17:05 The only person deflecting here is Humza Yousaf,
17:08 who cannot give honest answers.
17:11 And if everything to do with Michael Matheson
17:13 was an honest mistake,
17:14 why have there been so many dishonest statements about it?
17:18 And while Michael Matheson's story has unravelled,
17:21 Humza Yousaf himself has been caught up in it.
17:23 He was told by Michael Matheson last Tuesday
17:28 what actually happened and the personal use.
17:30 But the following day, last Wednesday,
17:33 Humza Yousaf told the press and the public,
17:35 and I quote, "For me, the matter is now closed."
17:39 He continued that Michael Matheson had,
17:41 and this is a quote from the First Minister,
17:44 "Taken the decision given the honest mistake
17:46 "that has been made in relation
17:48 "to the updating of the SIM card."
17:51 And he stuck to the same story that he knew was false.
17:55 And this morning, the Deputy First Minister
17:57 was further embroiled into this scandal.
18:00 She was asked if, on a point of principle,
18:02 ministers in the Scottish Government
18:04 always tell the Parliament and the public the truth.
18:08 She refused to answer that question.
18:10 So let me ask Humza Yousaf,
18:13 if Government ministers need to be honest,
18:15 why is Michael Matheson still in a job?
18:17 - First Minister.
18:18 - I will say for the fourth time
18:22 that Michael Matheson admits to making mistakes
18:25 in the handling of this issue.
18:28 And it is astonishing that Douglas Ross thinks
18:31 that the party of Boris Johnson,
18:34 a man that Douglas Ross described as honest,
18:37 can lecture anybody about standards in public life.
18:42 Isn't it really telling here
18:44 that we have a corporate body
18:47 that has said today, just before First Minister's questions,
18:50 and I will quote directly from them,
18:51 that in the interests of fairness to all
18:54 and to avoid prejudicing its investigation,
18:57 the SPCB will, as of now, not comment on any matters
19:01 that could be a bearing on this process
19:04 or provide a running commentary.
19:05 I think it's right that we let the SPCB
19:08 get on with the job that it's got to do,
19:11 and Michael Matheson will get on with the job
19:13 of ensuring he supports the health service
19:15 through what will be a difficult winter, Presiding Officer.
19:17 - Question two, Anas Sarwar.
19:18 (audience applauding)
19:20 - Deputy Presiding Officer,
19:21 honesty and integrity from members of both our governments
19:25 is essential for faith in public life to be restored.
19:29 This morning on the BBC,
19:30 the Deputy First Minister was asked twice,
19:32 do ministers in the Scottish Government
19:35 always tell Parliament and the public the truth?
19:38 The answer should have been an unequivocal and simple yes,
19:42 but instead the Deputy First Minister's answer was
19:45 that they only aim to do so.
19:48 People have known for a long time
19:49 that this government has a problem with the truth,
19:52 but is this now the official government position?
19:54 - First Minister.
19:56 - Look, we should all be telling the truth
19:58 in our interactions, wherever they are
20:01 and wherever they occur.
20:03 I will say once again what I said four times
20:06 to Douglas Ross already,
20:08 that Michael Matheson of course admits to mistakes.
20:11 He admits to mistakes in relation to the handling
20:15 of this entire episode,
20:16 but when Michael Matheson found out late on Thursday night,
20:20 not last week, the week before,
20:22 that his family had used the iPad,
20:26 he took the immediate decision the next day
20:28 to pay back the full amount.
20:30 In a personal statement to this Parliament,
20:32 he admitted not just the mistakes he made,
20:35 but he admitted the reasons for those mistakes.
20:39 He has undoubtedly reflected on that
20:41 and now what he has done this week
20:43 is get on with the job as Health Secretary
20:45 and ensure that he's supporting our NHS
20:47 through what will be an incredibly difficult winter indeed.
20:49 - Anas Sarwar.
20:50 - Deputy Prime Minister, I'm so pleased
20:51 the First Minister said that we should always
20:53 be telling the truth,
20:54 because in the short time Humza Yousaf
20:56 has been First Minister,
20:58 the record of this Parliament
20:59 has had to be corrected three times
21:01 because of wrong information he has told this chamber.
21:04 Once was in response to the serious issue
21:07 of the COVID inquiry and deleted WhatsApp messages.
21:10 And another was in response to me in this chamber
21:12 when the First Minister gave an inaccurate answer
21:14 about Scotland's renewables.
21:16 But instead of immediately correcting the record,
21:18 he took up hours of civil service time
21:21 to try and spare his blushes.
21:23 We know this because Labour now has
21:25 a full unredacted emails
21:27 between the First Minister's office and officials.
21:30 They show that when civil servants pointed out
21:33 he was wrong, he rejected their advice.
21:36 Instead, his advisors had civil servants
21:39 spend a month trying to cover up with a new line,
21:43 including manufacturing statistics to fit his answers.
21:47 First Minister, if these are the lengths
21:49 you will go to to hide the truth on a simple mistake,
21:53 should anyone be surprised that you won't sack
21:56 Michael Matheson for knowingly misleading the public?
21:59 First Minister.
22:00 There is a reason, Presiding Officer,
22:05 why the people of Scotland time and time and time again
22:09 have elected us to be the Government of Scotland.
22:12 And that is the reason why Anas Sarwar
22:14 and the Conservative Party sit here in opposition.
22:18 First Minister, could you resume your seat?
22:21 There is far too much barracking and background noise
22:24 as the First Minister is responding to the questions.
22:26 Let's hear the First Minister.
22:28 First Minister.
22:29 And Anas Sarwar is shouting they haven't elected me.
22:32 Can I remind him I have won elections to this Parliament.
22:34 In fact, the seat that I represent was held by a Labour MSP
22:38 until I won it, Presiding Officer.
22:39 So I won't take any lectures from Anas Sarwar
22:42 about how you win an election, if that's okay.
22:45 In terms of the issue that Anas Sarwar points to
22:49 when it comes to Scotland's energy potential,
22:52 yes, of course, there is an encompassing upon any of us,
22:56 whether it's a Government Minister
22:57 or whether it's a backbencher to correct the record
23:00 if any inaccurate statement has been made.
23:02 I take that responsibility very seriously.
23:05 And what I won't apologise for, though,
23:07 is the fact that we have an incredible
23:10 renewables potential here in Scotland,
23:13 a potential that we will invest in
23:16 and we will unleash that full potential
23:18 for the workforce going forward.
23:20 So while we will talk up our energy potential,
23:22 I know Anas Sarwar is only interested
23:24 in talking it down, Presiding Officer.
23:25 - Anas Sarwar.
23:26 - Deputy Presiding Officer, the people of Scotland
23:28 have only had one opportunity to pass judgment
23:31 on Humza Yousaf as First Minister.
23:32 That was the Rutherglen and Hamilton West by-election
23:35 when there was a 20% swing to Labour
23:37 and Labour getting double the vote the SNP got.
23:40 So I'll give you lessons on how to win an election,
23:43 First Minister, come the next general election,
23:45 because this is a gross breach of the relationship
23:49 between ministers and officials, a gross breach.
23:51 But not for the First Minister and the Government,
23:54 this behaviour has become a norm for them.
23:57 But actually, it's also a gross breach
24:00 between ministers and the public
24:02 when a minister can knowingly mislead them.
24:05 And that's why Scottish Labour has long called
24:07 for a clean-up Holyrood Act to sweep away
24:09 the culture of secrecy and cover-up
24:12 that the SNP have allowed to thrive.
24:14 The Salmond inquiry, the ferry scandal,
24:17 the failures at the Queen Elizabeth in Glasgow
24:19 and the sick kids in Edinburgh,
24:21 deleted COVID WhatsApp messages,
24:23 and now the Deputy First Minister now saying
24:25 they only aim to tell the truth.
24:28 Under the SNP, trust and faith in Scotland's institutions
24:32 has been lost.
24:33 Isn't it the case, as represented by the good people
24:36 of Rutherglen and Hamilton West,
24:37 that this is a Government that is running out of road,
24:40 desperate to save their jobs,
24:41 and willing to say anything to cling on to power?
24:44 First Minister.
24:45 - Sorry, officer, it's clearly not the case
24:49 because we've been re-elected time and time and time
24:52 and time again by the people of Scotland
24:54 to run our public services here in Scotland.
24:58 In terms of Freedom of Information Act,
25:01 I'm more than happy to provide a written response
25:03 to Anas Sarwar about the improvements that we have made
25:06 in relation to responding back
25:08 because we take our obligations very, very seriously.
25:11 And Anas Sarwar talks about trust.
25:13 He talks about values.
25:15 Well, I'm sorry, I do not know what the values are
25:17 of Sir Keir Starmer when it comes to the UK Labour Party.
25:22 Well, actually, I take that back.
25:24 I do know what the values of Sir Keir Starmer are.
25:27 The values of Sir Keir Starmer are to make sure
25:30 that he retains the two-child limit,
25:32 to make sure he retains the bedroom tax,
25:34 to make sure he retains the rape clause,
25:37 something, of course, Anas Sarwar disagreed with
25:40 and now suddenly agrees with.
25:42 So we know what our values are and nobody from London,
25:45 nobody from party headquarters will tell us otherwise.
25:48 - Question three, Edward Mountain.
25:50 (audience applauding)
25:54 - Thank you very much, Presiding Officer.
25:55 And I remind members of my register of interest
25:58 that I own a house and I am a private landlord.
26:01 To ask the First Minister whether the Scottish Government's
26:04 policy to require households to replace
26:07 their fossil fuel boilers with heat pumps
26:10 or other green energy systems in off-gas properties by 2025
26:15 and in on-gas areas from 2030 is still going ahead.
26:20 - First Minister.
26:21 - Our 2021 heat and building strategy committed
26:24 to introducing legislation to phase out the need
26:27 to install new or replacement fossil fuel boilers.
26:30 We will consult very shortly on detailed proposals
26:34 for a heat and buildings bill to ask everyone
26:36 across Scotland to help us design and deliver this
26:39 in the best way possible.
26:40 That consultation will provide more detail on when
26:43 and how the proposed changes will take effect.
26:47 Moving to clean heating systems will tackle climate change,
26:50 reduce the exposure of homes and businesses
26:53 to volatile fossil fuel prices.
26:56 But our 2021 strategy also set out the need
26:59 for the UK government to take urgent action.
27:01 That includes rebalancing gas and electricity prices
27:05 and making sure that energy companies themselves
27:08 are playing their part in delivering this vital transition.
27:11 Let me be clear, Presiding Officer,
27:12 we simply cannot meet our legal targets
27:15 in tackling climate change if we do not end
27:17 our use of gas boilers.
27:19 - Edward Maitland.
27:20 - And I thank the First Minister for that attempted answer.
27:24 I'm not sure I'm any clearer whether those targets
27:26 will be met.
27:27 It appears we'll have to wait.
27:28 But First Minister, I'm sure you'll agree with me
27:31 that it's absolutely vital that we do reach net zero.
27:34 And in order to do so, we need to take the public with us.
27:38 Does the First Minister therefore acknowledge,
27:41 like some of his SNP MSPs do,
27:44 that the unrealistic and poorly thought out policies
27:47 set by his Green Party colleagues in government,
27:50 such as this one and the DRS scheme,
27:52 are causing more damage in reaching net zero
27:55 than they are in achieving it?
27:57 - First Minister.
27:57 - Presiding Officer, we get to the crux
28:02 of the Conservatives' issue and problem here,
28:05 is that in the face, in the very face of a climate crisis
28:10 that in the summer engulfed many parts of our planet
28:13 in flames, has flooded many other parts of our planet
28:18 in the recent weeks and months, at home and abroad,
28:23 we have a Conservative Party that tell us
28:27 they're not climate sceptics,
28:28 they're not climate change deniers,
28:31 but oppose every single measure
28:34 that this government brings forward
28:35 to tackle climate change.
28:37 So every time we bring forward a sensible proposal
28:41 that's necessary to meet our targets,
28:44 and we all voted for those targets,
28:47 they're opposed by the Conservatives.
28:50 The Conservatives have to decide what side they are on.
28:54 Are they on the side trying to protect and save this planet,
28:58 or are they on the side of climate deniers
29:02 and climate sceptics?
29:03 They have chosen to make climate change, shamefully,
29:06 a culture war election issue.
29:09 Tories aren't just bad for Scotland,
29:10 they're not just bad for the UK,
29:11 but it seems they're bad for our planet too.
29:13 - Supplementary, Fergus Ewing.
29:15 (audience applauding)
29:18 - Presiding Officer, we all agree
29:20 that there is an acute housing shortage in this country,
29:24 yet Homes for Scotland, Calla Homes,
29:29 Taylor Woodrow and Persimmon,
29:31 all major house builders,
29:33 have all warned, all warned repeatedly
29:38 that the heat pump targets, especially for new builds,
29:41 have had the effect of forcing up costs of house building
29:44 so that fewer homes are being built in Scotland.
29:48 So if the First Minister wants to tackle the housing shortage,
29:53 will he consign the Green Party half-baked
29:56 pie-in-the-sky policy in the bin where it belongs,
30:00 alongside deposit return and highly protected marine areas,
30:04 and will he recycle his Green ministers
30:07 to the back benches where they belong,
30:09 and then meet with industry and real experts,
30:13 actual experts, to work out a plan to solve the problem?
30:17 - First Minister, we'll have a response
30:18 from the First Minister.
30:20 - Well, perhaps the applause from the Conservative benches
30:23 might demonstrate to Fergus Ewing
30:25 that his proposals are not the most sensible
30:29 that he is suggesting that we bring forward.
30:32 I do not believe, I do not believe
30:35 that we can simply put our head in the sand
30:37 and ignore the scale of the climate crisis
30:40 that we are facing.
30:41 Yes, house building and house construction
30:44 is facing challenge.
30:45 Just look at sky-high, rocketing inflation
30:48 caused by the Conservative government.
30:51 So yes, let's tackle sky-rocketing inflation.
30:54 Let's tackle some of those high construction costs.
30:57 And of course, we have several, not just targets,
31:00 but significant investment in house building
31:04 over the course of this Parliament and beyond.
31:07 And when it comes to ensuring
31:09 that we replace gas boilers,
31:12 we will not consign that policy at all
31:15 to the dustbin of history.
31:16 In fact, history will judge very poorly
31:19 those who are climate sceptics or indeed climate deniers
31:21 in the face of a climate crisis that is harming our planet.
31:25 - Mark Roskill.
31:26 - While UK government sinks into another culture war
31:29 cheered on by climate change deniers and naysayers,
31:32 here in Scotland, we're realising our ambitions
31:35 on heat transition.
31:37 From next April, all new buildings will need
31:40 to meet our new standards for clean heating.
31:42 And our package of funding support for households
31:45 is the most generous in the entire of the UK.
31:48 So does the First Minister agree with me
31:50 that our upcoming budget must drive forward
31:53 pioneering work in tackling fuel poverty
31:55 and empower households and businesses
31:58 to make the move to clean heating?
32:00 - First Minister.
32:01 - Yes, I do agree that, of course,
32:03 when it comes to transitioning
32:08 from direct emissions heating systems
32:11 to zero emissions heating systems,
32:13 that, of course, government has a significant role to play
32:16 through legislation, through its budget.
32:18 But let's be equally clear that, of course,
32:20 this is going to require private investment too.
32:22 There's barely going to be a government in the world
32:24 that's going to be able to self-finance
32:25 that transition to net zero entirely on its own.
32:29 And that's why the good work being done
32:30 by the Green Heat Taskforce is work
32:34 that I am looking forward to seeing,
32:37 well, we've seen the report and are looking forward
32:39 to acting upon.
32:41 So Mark Roskill is absolutely right.
32:43 We've got to make sure we do take the public with us.
32:45 That's why we do have such generous grants available,
32:49 the most generous in the UK
32:51 in terms of funding support for households.
32:54 But I go back to the very point that I've made
32:56 to everybody who's asked on this question,
32:58 that none of us, none of us can deny
33:00 in the face of an existential threat,
33:02 the scale of the climate crisis,
33:04 none of us can deny that action is needed
33:06 and to accelerate that action as quickly as we possibly can.
33:10 - And Finlay Carson.
33:12 - On the 14th of September,
33:13 the First Minister told this chamber
33:15 that the climate change plan
33:16 would be published before Christmas.
33:18 Now, despite the cabinet secretary
33:21 for net zero's assertions,
33:22 that it was down to the UK government,
33:25 Chris Stark, the chief exec of the Climate Change Committee
33:28 said that there was only a minor impacts
33:31 on the Scottish plan and potentially positive impacts
33:34 from the UK wide strategy to accelerate grid infrastructure,
33:38 but there were reasons to go faster.
33:40 So when will the climate change plan be published?
33:43 - First Minister.
33:44 - You've not joined up thinking of this before he did.
33:47 - Well, we will publish the plan.
33:50 We'll publish the plan before the statutory target.
33:53 Now we aimed of course to do it a year
33:55 before the statutory target of when to publish that plan.
34:00 And I think what I would say to Finlay Carson
34:02 is that the UK government's rollback
34:04 on its climate ambitions,
34:06 many of its U-turns are not just, of course,
34:09 bad for those living in the rest of the UK.
34:12 They clearly will have an impact on Scotland.
34:14 And it's right that we look to explore in detail
34:18 what those impacts are.
34:20 And I think it's frankly shameful
34:22 that in an issue of this existential crisis,
34:27 that that has been turned into an election issue,
34:29 a cultural war issue by the Conservatives.
34:32 Wouldn't it be far better that we had an element
34:35 of consensus on the fact that all of us
34:37 have to pick up the pace,
34:39 urgently accelerate the work of tackling the climate crisis.
34:43 And if we don't, our current generations
34:45 and our future generations simply won't forgive us.
34:48 - Question four, Alistair Allan.
34:50 - To ask the First Minister what support
34:52 the Scottish Government is providing to households
34:54 that are experiencing the pressure
34:55 of increased energy bills in light of Citizen Advice Scotland
34:59 launching its Worry This Winter awareness campaign.
35:02 - First Minister.
35:03 - Well, energy bills remain significantly higher
35:05 than two years ago due to a volatile energy market
35:08 and the UK government's complete and utter failure to act.
35:11 So campaigns like Citizen Advice Scotland,
35:13 Worry This Winter, together with our current
35:15 Home Energy Scotland campaign,
35:17 which will drive vital referrals
35:19 to HES warmer homes programme,
35:21 they're extremely important indeed.
35:23 I've consistently called on the UK government
35:25 to fully utilise the fiscal and policy levers
35:28 at their disposal to introduce measures
35:31 like a social tariff as a means to target support
35:34 to those who need it the most,
35:35 which unfortunately they failed to do
35:38 in the Chancellor's autumn statement,
35:40 leaving those in businesses and communities
35:43 already facing fuel poverty to suffer even more so.
35:46 - Alistair Allan.
35:48 - I thank the First Minister,
35:49 who will be aware that energy costs
35:51 are a particular worry in our island communities
35:54 who experience disproportionately high levels
35:55 of fuel poverty.
35:57 In yesterday's autumn statement,
35:58 the Chancellor rejected SNP calls
36:00 for a 400 pound energy rebate,
36:02 but with energy prices set to rise again by 5%,
36:05 can the First Minister assure my constituents
36:08 that the Scottish government will continue
36:10 to support people struggling with their energy bills
36:12 while the UK government so evidently ignores them?
36:15 - First Minister.
36:16 - I can reassure them on that point.
36:18 With energy bills rising again in January,
36:21 it's unacceptable that UK government's autumn statement
36:23 completely failed to deliver support
36:26 for those that need it the most.
36:27 This government has provided an additional
36:29 one million pounds this year
36:31 through the islands cost crisis emergency fund
36:34 to support islanders facing high fuel, food and energy costs
36:38 and in order to help meet the cost of living pressures.
36:41 So while we continue to help people
36:43 make their homes warmer and easier to heat
36:45 through our heat and energy efficiency support schemes
36:49 and support those in fuel crisis
36:50 through our fuel and security fund,
36:52 the powers to make a real difference
36:53 do unfortunately remain with the UK government
36:57 and it's frankly only when we have these powers
36:59 in control of the Scottish Parliament
37:01 and indeed the Scottish government through independence
37:04 that we can unleash the full potential
37:05 of our energy-rich nation.
37:07 - Supplementary, Sarah Boyack.
37:08 - Given the impact of fuel poverty
37:11 in the 38% of households who experience fuel poverty
37:15 and the 30% with extreme fuel poverty,
37:18 what lessons has this First Minister learned
37:20 from the failure to deliver 133 million pounds
37:23 of investment to make people's homes energy efficient
37:28 and mean that they can afford to heat their homes?
37:30 What will happen for next year?
37:31 How many homes are gonna get
37:33 that energy retrofitting in place?
37:35 - First Minister.
37:36 - Well, President, we have taken action
37:38 to help with fuel poverty.
37:40 One of the first acts that I did as First Minister
37:42 was to ensure that we didn't just double
37:45 the fuel and security fund
37:45 but we tripled the fuel and security fund.
37:48 We relaunched the warmer homes Scotland scheme
37:51 from 2nd of October with more funding
37:53 and help for households to receive
37:55 a climate-friendly heating system.
37:58 In year 22, 23, we delivered measures
38:00 in almost 5,500 households,
38:02 a record number of installs through warmer homes Scotland.
38:06 As I said, we've already agreed
38:08 to triple the fuel and security fund.
38:10 We also have, of course,
38:11 the child winter heating payment.
38:13 I'm more than happy to ensure
38:15 that the Minister, the Cabinet Secretary,
38:16 writes to Sarah Boyack with full details
38:19 of how we're supporting those
38:20 who are facing fuel poverty this winter.
38:22 But again, instead of having to mitigate
38:25 the failures of a Westminster government,
38:27 how much better would it be
38:27 if we had the powers in our own hands, Presiding Officer?
38:30 - Question five, Sue Webber.
38:31 - To ask the First Minister what work is being done
38:37 to support the expanding role of the GP surgery.
38:40 - First Minister.
38:41 - Since 2018, we have significantly expanded
38:44 the range of healthcare professional
38:46 supporting GP practices across Scotland.
38:49 There's now over 4,730 primary care
38:52 multidisciplinary team members
38:54 working in areas such as pharmacy,
38:56 physiotherapy, phlebotomy, and other disciplines too.
38:59 This means the average practice now has access
39:03 to more than five MDT members
39:05 alongside GPs and their practice teams.
39:08 Through our £190 million PCIF Primary Care Improvement Fund,
39:13 we're enabling those vital teams
39:15 to free up practice time
39:17 so that GPs can focus on more complex community care
39:20 and reduce referrals into secondary care,
39:23 ensuring more people get the right care
39:24 in the right place at the right time.
39:26 - Sue Webber.
39:27 - I thank the First Minister for that response.
39:29 Indeed, the expanding role of GP surgeries
39:32 is critical to help prevent acute hospitals
39:34 and A&E departments from being overwhelmed.
39:37 However, they cannot recruit and retain
39:39 the various MDT members
39:41 that the First Minister has made reference to.
39:43 Collins & Surgery in my region
39:45 has contacted me to express their concern
39:47 in the disparity in pay which is developing
39:49 between GP surgery staff and NHS staff.
39:53 There is now a two-tier NHS pay scale.
39:55 Staff there are frustrated and demoralised.
39:58 GP staff were uplifted less
40:00 than their Agenda for Change NHS colleagues.
40:04 Will the First Minister find the investment
40:06 to ensure an uplift can be agreed
40:08 to support the expanding GP practices
40:11 that continue to struggle?
40:12 - First Minister.
40:14 - Well, it's incredible we're being asked
40:15 to provide more funding for fairer pay
40:18 at a time when the UK government next year
40:20 will give us a paltry just under £11 million
40:23 in health consequentials.
40:25 That represents 0.06% of our health budget
40:29 here in Scotland.
40:31 And of course, when it comes to the health consequentials
40:33 that they are giving this year,
40:35 remarkably, they're not recurring for next year.
40:38 So what we will do and what we will concentrate on
40:41 is making sure that we, our NHS staff,
40:44 are the best paid anywhere in the UK
40:47 in terms of those who work in GP practices.
40:49 Sue Webber will be well aware, of course,
40:51 about the independent recommendations of the DDRB.
40:54 So we will continue to work with our GP practices
40:57 right across the country to ensure
40:59 we do everything we can to not only recruit,
41:01 which we have done,
41:02 but also retain GP practice staff.
41:05 But what I would say to Sue Webber
41:07 is this government has an excellent track record
41:09 when it comes to fair pay in our NHS,
41:11 very stark contrast to the UK government,
41:13 Presiding Officer.
41:14 - And Paul Sweeney.
41:15 - Thank you, Presiding Officer.
41:16 GPs in Glasgow tell me they are firefighting,
41:19 but still being expected to do more with less.
41:22 The Mental Health and Wellbeing Strategy
41:24 is making more demands on GPs,
41:25 but with little detail on additional capacity or resource.
41:29 So does the First Minister acknowledge
41:30 the pressure that GP practices are under?
41:33 And does he agree with them that the mental health strategy
41:35 is simply not deliverable without further support?
41:38 - First Minister.
41:39 - Of course, we seek to support
41:41 and invest in mental health services.
41:44 We have a good, again, track record
41:46 of doing so over the years.
41:47 I'm more than happy to ensure that the finance secretary
41:50 engages with the Labour Party, with any political party,
41:54 in relation to what more we can do in the upcoming budget.
41:57 Mental health has been, always will be,
42:00 an essential part of general practice.
42:02 With mental health issues, a common feature of consultations
42:05 and the Mental Health and Wellbeing Strategy,
42:07 which was referenced by Paul Sweeney,
42:09 acknowledges the need to increase mental health capacity
42:12 within general practice.
42:13 I would say to Paul Sweeney,
42:15 we have a good track record of investment
42:17 in health service, of course,
42:18 this financial year, taking it to 19 billion.
42:21 So we are more than willing to work with those
42:24 right across the chamber to see what further we can do.
42:27 But I would say to Paul Sweeney, of course,
42:29 in the face of significant financial constraints,
42:32 those who are suggesting that we spend more money
42:34 in particular areas will have to say
42:35 where that money comes from.
42:36 - Question six, Kenneth Gibson.
42:38 - Thank you, Presiding Officer.
42:39 To ask the First Minister what the Scottish Government's
42:41 response is to the autumn statement.
42:44 First Minister.
42:45 - Well, the first time, of course,
42:46 the autumn statement has been raised
42:47 and I'm not surprised that the Conservative members
42:50 didn't want to go near it
42:51 because they're just as embarrassed
42:53 as they absolutely should be
42:54 on such a dismal autumn statement.
42:57 It's deeply disappointing
42:58 that the Chancellor has failed to provide the funding
43:01 that devolved governments need in the autumn statement.
43:04 This makes the challenge of our budget next year
43:07 even more severe.
43:08 And yet again, the Conservatives have completely failed
43:11 to take action to support struggling households,
43:14 businesses, public services,
43:15 missing the opportunity to invest in the services
43:18 that people rely on and infrastructure
43:20 that's so vital to our economy.
43:22 The increase to the minimum wage
43:24 falls short of the real living wage.
43:26 And despite the cut to national insurance,
43:28 hardworking people are still seeing
43:30 their living standards fall.
43:32 We are once again at the mercy
43:33 of poor UK government decisions,
43:36 which compound the pressure on our public finances
43:39 and increase the misery
43:41 that is faced by struggling households.
43:43 Wouldn't it be far better, Presiding Officer,
43:46 that we didn't have to mitigate,
43:47 that we didn't have to wait for autumn statements
43:49 from a UK government, an unelected UK government,
43:52 but instead that we had the powers in our own hands?
43:55 - Presiding Officer. - Kenneth Gibson.
43:56 I thank the First Minister for that answer.
43:58 The First Minister will be aware
43:59 that the 25 billion pounds in election bribes
44:02 that the autumn statement contains
44:04 is less than half the 55 billion pounds
44:06 in tax increases and spending cuts
44:08 the Tories imposed after a disastrous
44:10 trust mini-budget last year.
44:12 Does he share my astonishment
44:13 that at a time of high inflation,
44:15 the shockingly low extra 11 million pounds
44:17 for Scotland's NHS is barely a 2,000th
44:20 of its annual budget,
44:21 that capital budgets will be severely cut next year,
44:24 impacting on essential infrastructure,
44:26 and that Scotland's public services
44:27 will inevitably pay the price
44:29 of yet another abysmal Tory budget?
44:31 - First Minister. - Absolutely.
44:33 I absolutely agree with Kenneth Gibson.
44:35 Yesterday's autumn statement provided
44:38 the very worst-case scenario to Scotland's finances.
44:41 At a time when we needed investment in infrastructure
44:45 to help grow the economy,
44:46 and in public services that so many people rely on,
44:49 instead we ended up with a cut in national insurance
44:52 that will deprive those vital services
44:54 of the much-needed funds that they require.
44:56 And as a result of the UK Government's
44:58 disastrous handling of the economy,
45:00 projected growth is just 0.7% next year.
45:04 Inflation is still running at more than twice
45:08 the Government's target.
45:09 We needed an autumn statement that grew the economy,
45:11 invested in public services,
45:12 protected the most vulnerable in our society.
45:17 Instead, we had proposed sanctions
45:19 that will penalise those very people.
45:22 As we develop Scotland's budget next month,
45:24 we'll do so, of course, in line with our missions
45:26 of equality, community, and opportunity.
45:29 And just a reminder, Presiding Officer,
45:31 of course, the last time the UK Government,
45:33 when they did their disastrous mini-budget,
45:35 it was the Conservatives who demanded that we copy them,
45:38 that we follow suit.
45:40 Thank goodness, Presiding Officer, that we ignored them.
45:42 No wonder the people of Scotland ignored them.
45:44 - Supplementary Liz Smith.
45:46 - What the autumn statement did, of course, First Minister,
45:49 was to tell small businesses in England and Wales
45:51 that they will benefit for another year
45:53 for a 75% discount on business rates.
45:55 So can I ask again, if the Scottish Government
45:58 will ensure that that is also the case
46:00 for small businesses in Scotland?
46:02 - First Minister.
46:03 - Well, can I say, Presiding Officer,
46:08 of course, we have a very good track record
46:09 of when it comes to supporting our businesses.
46:11 Small business bonus scheme, of course,
46:14 and of course, we have a very generous
46:18 business support package.
46:20 So we will consider, of course,
46:21 the consequentials that come our way.
46:23 We will consider what more we can do
46:26 to support businesses, Presiding Officer.
46:28 But what I would say to Liz Smith
46:31 is that for the small relief that they are giving
46:34 to businesses, it will be minuscule
46:36 in terms, in comparison, to the damage
46:39 that her party has inflicted upon business
46:41 through Brexit.
46:43 The disaster of Brexit being felt by businesses
46:46 up and down this country will not be undone
46:49 by the paltry sums given by the Chancellor yesterday.
46:51 - I think we move to constituency
46:53 and general supplementaries.
46:54 I call first, Kocab Stewart.
46:56 - Thank you.
46:57 It's welcome that Israel and Hamas
46:59 have reached an agreement to exchange 50
47:02 of the hostages held in Gaza
47:03 for a four-day pause in fighting.
47:06 But much more work is needed to secure a ceasefire
47:10 and prevent a further loss of innocent life.
47:12 Could the First Minister advise
47:14 what the Scottish Government's response is
47:16 to this development, given that the Parliament
47:19 has now expressed its view on a ceasefire?
47:22 - First Minister.
47:23 - Well, can I commend members
47:24 right across the chamber for what I thought
47:26 was a very good debate in relation to the ceasefire.
47:29 I was pleased that the Parliament backed
47:31 by a majority a ceasefire to be called.
47:34 Can I also say that I know that the four-day pause
47:38 will be much welcome relief to those in Gaza
47:42 who've suffered complete and utter devastation
47:44 over the last six and a half weeks.
47:47 Can I thank in particular those who've been involved
47:49 in helping to negotiate that four-day pause,
47:53 the United States, Egypt, and in particular Qatar,
47:56 who've been at the centre of those negotiations.
47:58 I think all of us will say that we welcome
48:02 that four-day pause, but we want it not to be
48:04 a four-day pause, but a permanent ceasefire.
48:07 So I would urge the UK Government
48:09 to use whatever influence it has
48:11 alongside the international community
48:13 to ensure that after four days,
48:15 the bombing of innocent men, women, and children
48:17 doesn't just resume, but we actually have peace.
48:20 And not only that, they all strive towards
48:22 a long-term peace which must be predicated
48:24 in a two-state solution.
48:26 - Tess White.
48:27 - First Minister, Old Meldrum Dental Practice
48:31 and Laws Dental in Carnoustie have told patients
48:34 they have no choice but to ditch NHS treatment
48:37 because of increasing costs and the recent changes
48:40 enacted by this SNP Green Government.
48:43 Far from protecting dental treatment for NHS patients,
48:47 we're seeing an exodus of dentists from the NHS
48:51 because of the Government's actions.
48:53 Will the First Minister commit to finding
48:56 a better working structure for dentistry
48:59 to ensure its long-term sustainability?
49:02 - First Minister.
49:04 - Well, we have invested in NHS dental services
49:06 and of course recently just agreed
49:09 some additional NHS dental reforms.
49:11 And the purpose of those reforms,
49:13 the exact point of those reforms,
49:15 is to incentivise NHS dentistry.
49:17 So that has seen some increased fees for dentists,
49:21 which I'm happy to ensure that the Health Secretary
49:23 writes to Tess White with the full details of that.
49:26 In addition to that, it's fair to say
49:29 that NHS registration in Scotland
49:32 is significantly higher than the rest of the UK,
49:34 with more than 95% of the population registered
49:37 with an NHS dentist.
49:38 That's not to take away from the important points
49:40 that Tess White does raise.
49:42 We do know on the back of the pandemic
49:43 there have been and continue to be challenges
49:46 for our dental sector right across Scotland
49:49 and right across the UK.
49:49 And I'll ensure that the Health Secretary
49:51 writes in detail to Tess White
49:52 about what we're doing to support
49:54 NHS dentistry in Scotland.
49:55 - Mercedes Villalba.
49:56 - Constituents working in modern languages
49:58 at the University of Aberdeen have contacted me
50:01 about university management's plans
50:03 to withdraw honours degrees in languages,
50:06 cultures and societies.
50:08 Given the Scottish Government's commitment
50:10 to improving language learning in schools
50:12 and the existing shortage of language teachers
50:14 in the North East region,
50:15 does the First Minister agree with me
50:17 that Scotland cannot afford for Aberdeen
50:19 to lose these languages degrees?
50:21 - First Minister.
50:22 - I can say that I agree with much of what
50:25 Mercedes Villalba says,
50:27 that of course learning an additional language
50:29 is a great skill for any person to have.
50:32 And the news that Mercedes Villalba
50:36 gives to this Parliament is of concern.
50:38 It is ultimately, of course, a matter for the university.
50:41 It's appropriate that they make those decisions.
50:44 But I will ensure that the Cabinet Secretary for Education
50:47 or indeed the Minister for Further and Higher Education
50:49 does engage with Mercedes Villalba
50:51 and see what support we are able to offer.
50:53 - Michelle Thompson.
50:55 - Thank you, Presiding Officer.
50:56 Workers in Grangemouth, in my constituency of Falkirk East,
50:59 are fearful of their future after the announcement
51:02 from Petro Ineos this week to move from a refinery
51:05 to an import facility.
51:07 Although I have an urgent question later today,
51:09 will the First Minister take this chance to confirm
51:11 he will do all in his power to protect
51:14 this vital industrial asset and workers' jobs?
51:18 - First Minister.
51:19 - Yes, I will give that absolute confirmation.
51:22 Can I thank Michelle Thompson for raising this issue?
51:24 And as she says, there is an urgent question,
51:26 I believe, later this afternoon.
51:29 Neil Gray and I both met with Petro Ineos
51:33 earlier this morning.
51:34 Neil Gray then went on to meet with the trade unions as well.
51:37 And I believe he's offered a briefing
51:40 for all MSPs right across the chamber tomorrow.
51:43 So we will absolutely engage with the owners of Grangemouth.
51:48 We will, of course, engage, as we have been doing,
51:51 with trade unions.
51:52 We will engage with the UK Government
51:54 and we'll do everything we possibly can
51:56 to secure a sustainable future for Grangemouth refinery.
51:59 In my conversations with Petro Ineos,
52:02 it was very, very clear that there are a whole range
52:04 of factors that have to be addressed.
52:07 Some of those domestic, but undoubtedly,
52:09 many of them global too.
52:11 But I can give an absolute assurance to Michelle Thompson
52:14 that we will work with everybody to ensure
52:16 that there's a sustainable future for Grangemouth
52:18 moving forward.
52:19 - Rachel Hamilton.
52:21 - Presiding Officer, on Tuesday,
52:22 Shona Robison, the Finance Secretary,
52:25 failed to guarantee to farmers that 28 million
52:28 of ring fence funding will be returned
52:30 to the Scottish agricultural budget.
52:32 Furthermore, 45 million is being cut from that rural budget.
52:36 First Minister, why are you abandoning
52:39 rural communities and farmers?
52:41 (audience applauding)
52:42 - First Minister.
52:43 - Astonishing, from the party of Brexit,
52:48 talking about abandoning our farmers.
52:51 The party that has inflicted the biggest self-harm,
52:57 the most dangerous self-harm our society,
53:01 our economy has ever seen, and for what?
53:04 So I don't think Rachel Hamilton or the Conservatives
53:07 have an ounce of credibility
53:09 when it comes to standing up for our farmers.
53:12 So yes, we'll continue to invest
53:14 in our agricultural community.
53:16 We'll continue to invest in our farmers.
53:18 What we will do is ensure that they don't have to suffer
53:22 any more pain that has been inflicted upon them
53:25 by the Conservatives' hard Brexit, Presiding Officer.
53:27 - And Paul O'Kane.
53:28 - Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer.
53:31 Today's Carers' Rights Day,
53:32 a day in which we should all express our appreciation
53:34 for what unpaid carers do.
53:36 The state of caring report was also published today,
53:38 making harrowing reading.
53:39 In particular, 51% of carers who are struggling financially
53:43 haven't had a break.
53:43 So can the First Minister tell us
53:45 why his carers strategy last year
53:46 was so thin on respite commitments?
53:49 And does he agree with calls,
53:50 including from this side of the chamber,
53:51 for at least two weeks of respite
53:52 to support carers who are in such need?
53:54 - First Minister.
53:55 - More than happy to look into that suggestion
53:57 being made by Paul O'Kane.
53:58 I want to start exactly where he did,
54:00 which is to thank all of our carers
54:02 for the incredible work that they do.
54:04 But every single carer I meet
54:06 will rightly challenge the government
54:07 to say that it isn't just warm words they need,
54:09 they need to see action.
54:11 And that's why this government has acted.
54:12 And I'm more than happy for the Cabinet Secretary
54:15 to write to Paul O'Kane in detail
54:18 around the measures that we have taken
54:20 and are going to be taking to support carers
54:22 right now and into the future as well.
54:24 But in terms of his suggestion in relation to respite,
54:27 that's one we'll give consideration to.
54:29 - Thank you.
54:30 That concludes First Minister's questions.
54:32 - Thank you.
54:33 (upbeat music)
54:35 (upbeat music)
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