Writer/Director Jon Bell and Actress Shari Sebbens talk to Fest Track about sacred vs. safe space, the context of the horror and playing to the textures and performance of genre in regards to in regards to their film: “The Moogai” playing the Midnight section at the 2024 Sundance Film Festival in Park City, Utah.
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00:00 <music>
00:26 This is Tim Waspert from Fast Track on Cirque TV. I'm here in Park City, Utah for the Sundance Film Festival.
00:31 So Sherry, I wanted to ask you because John said something very interesting about sacred versus safe.
00:36 But the thing is you also want to be in between those in order to really get the primality and the emotion of this woman.
00:44 Obviously in the hospital at the one point it's just sort of, you know, it's primal.
00:50 She's just, it's about surviving. But then once you get out into the bush, when you're out there in the middle of nowhere,
00:59 it takes on a completely different level. Can you talk about almost letting go in an acting sort of situation to be able to reach those places?
01:08 Because those places can be hard to exist in.
01:12 Yeah, definitely. And John and I spoke a lot about these places. I think the primal sort of the rage, I think, is quite easy for me to access as an Aboriginal woman.
01:26 I'm angry all the time and it lives, you know, simmers underneath.
01:32 But then, you know, that is absolutely a God that I know myself and a lot of women in my community, Aboriginal women,
01:40 Indigenous women the world over have had to build this kind of armour to exist in our colonies, respective colonies.
01:50 Pushing on through that is actually, it's scary because, you know, like you say, when she leaves the hospital and she's out in the bush,
01:58 that's really the moment where it was, yeah, it's an incredible moment between Ruth and Sarah that is pushing on through all the pain to let yourself feel, I guess.
02:14 And for me, it was letting myself, oftentimes, you know, like we Aboriginal people, a lot of us say, like, if we start crying, we'll never stop.
02:24 So we use humour a lot. We use, you know, like all this sort of stuff.
02:28 But there is, it felt like a floodgate and it felt like it wasn't Shari.
02:34 It was, I was, you know, I guess Shari the person was grieving and mourning for all of the Aboriginal women that have had their children removed
02:44 and continue to have their children removed, all the children of those Aboriginal women.
02:50 So it sort of felt in a way, I don't want to, you know, yeah, sometimes you get, you feel like you're a bit of a wanker when you're in after talking about cathartic moments and stuff like that.
03:00 But it's, you know, it really felt like an honouring, I suppose, in the letting go.
03:09 [BREATHING]
03:13 [BREATHING]
03:40 Hello?
03:43 Little girl, are you lost?
03:46 And my last question for the both of you. Thank you. I didn't want to take too much of your time.
03:53 But I think it's interesting to talk about the aspect of, you know, combating and, you know, hitting fear head on.
04:00 Because this is what, I mean, the child stealer, the Mugai, you know, the one who steals children, it's, you know, that's a parent's biggest fear.
04:09 You know, is that, you know, you don't know how anybody's going to react in that.
04:15 And that's what's interesting about putting it in the wrapper of a horror film.
04:19 Could you sort of talk about using genre to address these issues, but finding the balance between, obviously, social, you know, social context, but then entertainment, because there has to be a balance.
04:36 John, if you want to talk about it, but then for you, Sherry, embracing sort of the aspect of what the genre is and understanding how to play it, but also keeping her so grounded that no matter what, we feel an innate empathy for her in everything that she does, even up to that final moment.
04:56 Yeah, well, I mean, in terms of putting it into the horror space, it is a horror story, like in actuality, it is a horror story.
05:08 And it is kind of a, like I was saying, you know, you can't get refuge from certain forces, you know, to wake up every day and to know that your kids have been taken and they've either been stolen sort of surreptitiously, or, you know, they've been taken by force.
05:31 Or there's a third option where government officials have said, you know, we can give this child a better life than you can.
05:39 So you think that, so some people might think that they've done the best thing and then only years later find out that it was a horror for the child as well.
05:48 Like those kinds of things you just can't wake up from, you just wake up every day or you can't get away from, you wake up every day and you just face that fundamental.
05:57 That's interesting, like a waking nightmare.
06:01 Yeah.
06:02 Wow.
06:03 You can't get away from it.
06:05 You just wake up and then see the other kids and notice the absence of one.
06:10 And the natural inclination of a parent to say, I've got four kids there, I'm missing the fifth.
06:18 You know, I've got a stack of grandkids.
06:20 When we go somewhere, we don't call out names, we just number up.
06:25 So we just count numbers and then go, hey, who's missing here?
06:28 Like the numbers the first thing and there's, I don't know, there's just no getting away from the horrific reality of it.
06:38 And the way that that fits into the wider context of genocide is a really insidious fact that when you start to put the whole thing together and you contextualize it, you've realized that, oh man, this force is invested in our complete destruction and we can't get away from it.
07:03 And what I was saying about the sacred versus the profane space, once the sacred spaces, like in the Western world, people are sort of moving away from religion, church numbers are down and a lot of stuff.
07:16 And there is no sacred space existing in the Western world anymore.
07:34 Like people in the Western world, people just exist on a certain level and can't reach their notion of God, their notion of the creator and whatever you choose to call it.
07:35 And so the safety net of that, the safety net of the spiritual is even cut off.
07:44 So all of that stuff just feeds so much into the horror.
07:49 And then at the same time, because I genuinely do like Hollywood blockbusters and Hollywood type storytelling.
08:00 The film itself was very much striving for things like a decent runtime.
08:11 So you're not sitting there for three hours and your bottom gets numb.
08:15 And the piece was very specific.
08:19 The narrative drive, just pushing forward, pushing forward so that you're not sort of, you might be jumping ahead, but you're not jumping ahead narratively to know what the next turn is or whatever.
08:29 Hopefully, hopefully, hopefully.
08:32 And then also just that there's entertainment in there that it's not necessarily a horror in the sense of all these jump scares and stuff, but that the creepy feeling just settles in.
08:46 And the notion of someone watching, because that's the truth of the Stolen Generation Mob 2, because no matter what happens for those parents, they're always on edge.
08:57 They'll always be on edge for the rest of their lives.
08:59 Are you hurt, sweetie?
09:06 Do you want me to take you home?
09:12 What did you say?
09:18 For you, Sherry, did you want to speak to that?
09:21 But also, obviously, you know, performing like within the context of the genre and yet making it so grounded that it creates that empathy.
09:31 I mean, when she finally does this at the end, she's like, "Oh, I'm so happy."
09:36 Yeah, thank you. That's really cool to hear.
09:59 This is certainly my first, apart from the short, first step into the genre, I guess, in that way.
10:07 And the exciting thing about it is it's the first Indigenous genre film, to my knowledge, which is awesome.
10:15 So we're all kind of figuring out, too, like testing these waters and going, "What is this?"
10:20 And then suddenly you're like, "Oh, actually, this is just us dealing with an allegory."
10:26 And the fact is, the truth is far more horrific than anything we can put on screen right now.
10:30 Like, it's the truth of the colonized truth.
10:33 That's the irony.
10:34 Yeah, yeah.
10:35 So whatever scary story we're telling, you know, it's nowhere near as terrifying as what has happened and is happening.
10:43 But I think you kind of also, I had to really go, "Don't lean into what your idea of genre is.
10:52 Don't, you know, you can saturate yourself with other reference points and inspiration and resources, but don't play a trope.
11:01 Like, you don't want to go down that path."
11:03 So I really kind of just relied on day-to-day scene-to-scene with John and the other actors.
11:10 What are we doing?
11:12 Absolutely trying to really craft her journey every step of the way.
11:16 Like, you know, you're trying not to be at a 10 yesterday and then an 8 today, like emotionally, things like that.
11:23 Well, because there's a waking – I did want to add, like the waking nightmare thing that John was talking about.
11:28 Like when your hand is going into the crib with the snakes or stuff like that, you almost feel like she is halfway between a dream and reality.
11:38 Sorry, I didn't mean to interject that.
11:40 No, no, no, that's great.
11:42 That's exactly what it was.
11:43 It was really, I guess, just trying to stay as present as possible with everyone and everything.
11:52 And, you know, suddenly there's a six-week-old baby around you as well.
11:56 So you're like, "Oh, my energy's got to be here, but I'm looking after the six-week-old and I'm going to see some snakes in the crib."
12:02 It's all happening.
12:04 It really, yeah, it's – I guess I don't really have any other words other than to say it's just an endeavor in staying as present as possible in each moment.
12:15 And whilst being completely aware of the trajectory that you're on or where you've come from.
12:22 Yeah.
12:23 [Music]