Lead Actress Monica Raymund and Showrunner Rebecca Cutter talk to The Inside Reel about approach, legacy, evolution and the essence of gallows humor in regards to the 3rd and final season of their Starz series: “Hightown”.
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00:00 [MUSIC PLAYING]
00:03 I'm either going to kill myself or something's
00:14 going to change, but I don't want to be like this anymore.
00:17 I just don't know how to stop.
00:19 You lied to me.
00:20 We all have secrets, right?
00:22 You need to think long and hard.
00:29 About what side of this thing you're going to be on.
00:31 You know, seeing the trajectory of all these characters,
00:41 but specifically looking at Jackie,
00:43 it's about, you know, obviously the choices made,
00:46 you know, temptation, desire, but also
00:49 sort of empathy for her journey.
00:52 Could you talk about finding those notes
00:54 as you went into this season and tried to wrap up the story,
00:58 in terms of giving each of these characters, Rebecca,
01:02 a way to show their sort of perspective,
01:05 but Monica, bringing sort of Jackie's sort of trajectory
01:08 to a sort of specific point, if you will.
01:12 You go first.
01:13 Oh.
01:15 Yeah, well, I think the key to this season
01:19 is that I kind of knew where I wanted them to end,
01:25 and sort of that they would take a kind of final form,
01:29 if you will.
01:30 And so I kind of worked backwards from there
01:32 to where do they start and what's the arc.
01:36 And so, but especially with Jackie,
01:37 I think I really wanted to take her on a ride.
01:40 I really wanted to put her through her paces.
01:42 And I think all the characters sort of get
01:45 the ending they deserve.
01:47 And you can take that to mean whatever you want.
01:49 But yeah, I'm just really excited for you
01:53 to see what that means.
01:55 For you, Monica?
01:56 Yeah, I mean, I like--
01:57 you know, there's the word empathies
01:59 is resonating today for this show and these characters.
02:04 Understanding like that it's--
02:08 none of this is linear, that they're constantly
02:10 weaving in and out of darkness and lightness.
02:14 Like Rebecca said, hopefully by the end,
02:17 they've come into their final form,
02:19 whatever that means for each of them.
02:20 I know for me, for Jackie, she wants so much
02:23 to redeem these women who've been murdered
02:27 and to bring that to everybody's attention,
02:29 to find justice for that.
02:31 And I think by way of doing that,
02:33 she also finds redemption for herself.
02:36 And hopefully, she can learn how to keep that and grow from that.
02:43 It's messy, huh?
02:43 [MUSIC - MADELINE, "DOWNING"]
02:44 Well, if you told me you were drowning,
02:50 I would not lend a hand.
02:54 Jackie, can we talk to you for a second?
02:56 You know why you're here?
02:57 I've seen your face before, my friend.
03:01 But I don't know if you know who I am.
03:05 No idea.
03:07 And I can feel it crawling in the air tonight.
03:12 I'm working a missing persons case, which left me here.
03:16 I'm on to something big.
03:17 A murder big.
03:18 You say?
03:19 You should be ready for what's coming.
03:25 Listen, our entire case is about to go down the drain.
03:28 Well, yeah, all these characters are flawed.
03:30 I mean, that's the great thing watching Jackie.
03:32 She'll screw up, and then she'll come back,
03:34 and she'll try again while beating herself up.
03:37 But this is true of Renee's character as well.
03:41 We always try to do the best.
03:43 But it's where your heart's at.
03:44 Could you sort of talk about that heart of Jackie
03:47 as she's evolved over these three seasons?
03:49 Yeah, I mean, Jackie, I think she's a very passionate person.
03:57 And I don't think she's one thing.
03:59 I mean, yes, she's messy and an alcoholic,
04:02 and she can be hurtful or inconsiderate of others,
04:05 or selfish.
04:06 But she also has this huge heart.
04:08 She does want to save the world.
04:10 She does want to make things better.
04:11 So it's not one or the other.
04:16 These things are always existing within her.
04:18 And she does--
04:21 I say this in the most loving way possible.
04:23 She makes it about her.
04:24 She personally invests in everything
04:26 because it makes her feel a certain way,
04:29 a certain way to help people.
04:30 And it makes her feel a certain way to fail.
04:32 So she's always wearing her heart on her sleeve in a way
04:36 and making it about the feeling.
04:41 And she invests so much feeling in every case.
04:43 It's never just a case.
04:46 For you, Monica, and finding that right feeling
04:48 and when it feels exactly right within her skin.
04:52 Yeah, I mean, yeah, being able--
04:54 she has a hard time being able to separate her feelings
04:56 from the case without imprinting or projecting her own desires
05:01 on what comes of it.
05:02 And then also, Jackie gets in her own way.
05:06 She really does.
05:07 And Monica does too.
05:10 That's something we have in common, where
05:13 Jackie has an idea of what needs to happen to correct it
05:18 or to find justice or to help people.
05:21 But then she ends up getting so invested
05:23 that she actually hurts herself and hurts the case.
05:27 So it's really finding that balance is really her burden,
05:32 I think.
05:33 Sometimes it's through addiction.
05:35 Sometimes it's through her relationship to the people
05:38 who are involved in the case.
05:39 So it's really about, how do I get to that place of balance
05:43 where I can not only help other people, but help myself?
05:47 [MUSIC PLAYING]
05:50 [SCREAM]
05:53 Oh, my god.
05:55 Oh, my god.
05:56 Where'd you get that?
06:01 I think we should go look.
06:03 [MUSIC PLAYING]
06:06 Don't.
06:23 Don't do that.
06:26 Don't do that.
06:27 [SCREAM]
06:32 What the fuck?
06:33 For the both of you, can you talk
06:38 about understanding the gray and sometimes accepting the gray?
06:41 Because every single character has that gray element of it.
06:45 But even the area itself is all about gray,
06:48 about those quiet little corners or the places
06:51 where people don't go.
06:52 Can you talk about that?
06:53 Because the environment takes on a certain level
06:56 of that on the cape.
06:59 Right.
07:00 Well, in terms of the gray, in terms of character,
07:03 I would say that's--
07:06 I mean, that's what it's been from the beginning.
07:08 And I think every single one of them
07:11 has a moral gray area that they're willing to exist within.
07:16 And honestly, I mean, as the writer,
07:18 sometimes I forget, like--
07:20 in my mind, some people react, like, for example, to Rey.
07:23 And they go, oh, he's such a creep.
07:25 And you go, oh, really?
07:25 I kind of like him.
07:27 I forget how different people have different moral compasses.
07:30 And some things cross a line for some people
07:32 that don't for another.
07:33 And so sometimes I don't even know.
07:36 I can't even do black and white.
07:38 I don't know what I'm defining for the audience.
07:40 They're all taking their own personal experiences
07:44 when watching it.
07:45 So and then in terms of the location, I mean, yes,
07:49 season two was in the winter.
07:51 And it was very desolate and gray.
07:54 And then season three, we're back to the summer.
07:56 We're back to P-Town in the summer.
07:58 And yeah.
08:01 I'll tell you what.
08:03 I might have something you want to talk about.
08:06 Frankie's trial is coming up.
08:08 Figure we got a common interest in keeping him inside.
08:11 So you got any information on the murder of Jorge Cuevas?
08:16 Doesn't matter.
08:17 I ain't a snitch.
08:18 Bullshit.
08:19 You're the reason why Frankie got arrested the last time.
08:22 Nah.
08:23 I got no problem with the man.
08:24 Really?
08:26 Is that why your cellmate stuck metal in his gut?
08:29 Prison makes you do crazy things.
08:32 Good thing I got out.
08:33 You got out on bail.
08:35 And bail is not out.
08:38 Still got a trial hanging over your head.
08:40 Hey, look.
08:41 I got the best lawyer money can buy.
08:44 My trial's pushed.
08:45 But you can't push it forever.
08:47 We'll see.
08:49 But right now, I'm a free man.
08:53 So unless you need a car, I got nothing for you.
08:56 If you want to, Monica, talk about the gray of the character.
09:00 Because that's what makes her so interesting,
09:02 is that she goes and ping-pongs back and forth.
09:04 But the one thing I always liked that you brought to her
09:07 was a sense of humor.
09:08 Well, Ray has it.
09:10 Everybody has a sense of humor.
09:11 But I think there's one scene where you're driving.
09:12 You're like, I'm going to Beyonce this.
09:14 And you're on Molly.
09:15 And it's just sort of a beautiful thing
09:17 that she can laugh at the situation,
09:20 even though she has to be razor sharp.
09:23 And she does.
09:23 She gets back to that point.
09:25 Can you talk about finding that gallows humor
09:27 with both her friends, but also her fellow colleagues?
09:31 Yeah, gallows humor is sort of like a survival mechanism.
09:35 You have to find the funny in the sad.
09:38 Otherwise, how are you going to get up every day
09:40 and do your job?
09:41 It's something that I've learned over my years,
09:43 actually, as an actor working as different roles
09:46 from first responders, is that gallows humor
09:49 is a part of the culture of police, law enforcement.
09:54 That's very much a part of the culture and lifestyle
09:56 between coworkers.
09:58 So that has to be there.
10:00 Otherwise, it's just too sad.
10:04 You need to have some fun.
10:05 But like you said, she gets back on her razor edge.
10:07 She does take the job seriously.
10:10 It's not about that.
10:11 She just has a really hard time, I think,
10:14 sometimes taking life seriously and finding a balance
10:19 in all of that.
10:20 [PHONE RINGING]
10:23 Close the door.
10:26 I'm going to ask you one question right now.
10:28 Are you [BLEEP] serious, Jackie?
10:30 I know. I'm sorry.
10:30 You're going to be late for your first day off desk duty.
10:32 Throwing a debrief with the major?
10:34 It will happen again.
10:34 I promise.
10:35 It's just my car was stolen.
10:40 What?
10:41 In P-Town?
10:42 For real?
10:43 Yeah, I mean, I think so.
10:45 You think so?
10:46 You think your car was stolen?
10:47 Or did you forget where you parked it?
10:49 Really, dude?
10:50 I get p-tested like every other day.
10:51 If I was partying, you would literally
10:52 be the first person to know.
10:54 I had to ask.
10:56 OK, want me to start over?
10:57 I'm going to start over.
10:59 Welcome back to the field, Agent Quinones.
11:00 You are off desk purgatory.
11:02 And I absolve you of your sins, my child.
11:05 See?
11:05 Good.
11:07 And my last question, finding the edge,
11:09 you know, that's the thing.
11:10 It's like in storytelling, it's all about legacy.
11:12 You can look back on this 20 years down the road.
11:14 Is it still pertinent?
11:16 Can you talk about that, about the legacy of a series
11:18 like "High Town," in what it was able to say,
11:21 what it was able to do, and how it spoke to people?
11:25 I mean, I think--
11:28 I don't know what the statistic is, but something like,
11:30 you know, the number of overdose deaths from fentanyl
11:34 has only gone up since we started the show.
11:35 So we're clearly not out of the woods, which was--
11:40 sort of that was the backdrop.
11:41 That was the sort of impetus for the show.
11:43 I mean, the sort of--
11:44 not the impetus, but like, that was the backdrop of the show
11:47 from the start.
11:48 And I don't think that's going anywhere anytime soon, sadly.
11:53 So I think it's still very relevant in that way.
11:56 But I hope that it also leaves a legacy of the idea
12:00 that recovery is possible, you know,
12:05 redemption is possible.
12:06 I think there are all--
12:08 there's-- I think people who can relate to that struggle
12:11 will see a lot of hope in the show.
12:13 I do want to say something, actually,
12:14 because I think it's important that, like--
12:15 and I think this is a huge testament to Rebecca,
12:18 and I think people at Starz is putting a show like this
12:21 with such a female-forward-driven project
12:26 that stays in-- rooted in the characters.
12:28 But to be able to see, like, a queer Latina or people
12:32 of color, such a diverse world, too,
12:36 of people who are struggling with these issues that
12:38 are going to keep going till, you know,
12:41 as long as we all live.
12:43 To be able to be a part of that and represent
12:48 those communities, that's a big part
12:50 of the legacy for the show, too.
12:51 [MUSIC PLAYING]
12:54 Do you think the day will come when you feel like enough's
12:59 enough?
13:00 [MUSIC PLAYING]
13:04 There's no bigger lie we tell ourselves
13:06 than it's just business.
13:08 It's always personal.
13:09 [MUSIC PLAYING]
13:12 [SCREAMING]
13:16 [MUSIC PLAYING]
13:19 [SCREAMING]
13:23 [BLANK_AUDIO]