Global elites gathered in Davos this week but is the annual shindig in the Swiss Alps really the best place to cure the world's ills? Our panel was quite critical.
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00:00 [Music]
00:12 Hello there and welcome to Brussels My Love, Euronews' weekly talk show on all things Europe and beyond.
00:19 My name is Shona Murray and I'm standing in for Maeve who's in Davos this week,
00:23 but he'll be with us throughout the show. Thank you for joining us.
00:26 Coming up this week, it's six months until the European elections where voters can decide the future shape of the European Union.
00:34 The timeline coincides nicely with the theme of Davos this week, rebuilding trust,
00:39 because in almost every capital in Europe, the rise of the far right is on the agenda.
00:44 Also, and not unrelated, the cost of living crisis and the fair transition to a greener world, vital to save the planet.
00:52 These issues are even more acutely apparent when you see the spectacle of limousines, private jets and helicopters in Davos.
00:59 And we're coming up to two years since Russia's territorial invasion of Ukraine.
01:03 President Zelensky was in Davos to remind the world's most influential people of Russia's renewed bombardment of Ukrainian cities.
01:11 He told NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg that Ukraine urgently needs bolstered air defence,
01:17 all while US and EU support for Kiev hangs in the balance.
01:21 So let me introduce our panel for this week.
01:23 Darmendra Kanani, Friends of Europe, Anna Nadejdevich, Wilfred Martin Centre and Petros Fasoulas,
01:29 Secretary General of European Movement International.
01:32 Now, before we get to that and our excellent panel, let's cross to Maeve McMahon in snowy Davos.
01:37 Maeve, everyone is talking about rebuilding trust there, which is, of course, no mean feat.
01:42 But how do they say they hope to achieve it?
01:45 Well, Shona, the World Economic Forum claim that this is not just an exclusive party for the rich,
01:51 that they're trying to make this World Economic Forum gathering that little bit more inclusive.
01:56 They even used virtual reality, for example, for some panels this week in order to get more voices,
02:01 more perspectives and more diversity into the room.
02:05 Also here, I've met a number of influencers who've created their own audiences online
02:10 and they're speaking to millions of people from all across the globe every day.
02:13 There's also a lot of NGOs here, youth groups, activists, even trade unionists
02:18 who are getting FaceTime with big business and global leaders.
02:21 But that said, you can feel as well the wealth around town, the powerful people that are here.
02:27 And of course, there's a lot of lobbying, a lot of greenwashing across the promenade as well.
02:31 But at the same time, I'm feeling a sense of urgency among many people I speak to
02:35 that there's been a lot of wrong done in the past and that definitely needs to be fixed,
02:40 especially given that four billion of us will be going to vote this year in 2024
02:44 and also given the news out of Iowa earlier this week.
02:47 May, in Davos there, Dharmendra, you were nodding and shaking your head.
02:52 Davos, what's your assessment?
02:54 I'm rather sick of it, actually. It turns my stomach.
02:58 Reading the stuff and the kind of daily outposts of who's there, what they're doing, etc.
03:03 makes you think it's a trumped up, mind the pun, unaccountable set of gatherings that come together.
03:11 And you have all these people there.
03:13 Don't forget, the number of politicians that are there, they're on our ticket.
03:17 They're on taxpayers' money.
03:19 And people don't realise that actually there's a lack of self-awareness of this event, I think, globally.
03:25 And people seem to think that it is the go-to place to define what we do on economics,
03:29 whether we do on politics, etc. But actually, nothing really comes out of it.
03:34 You get a lot of buzz. You get all this kind of hyper attention to it.
03:40 And a lot of whining and dining in the evenings.
03:42 And you think to yourself, who's benefiting from this?
03:45 I thought it was interesting that in the opening you had Christine Lagarde
03:48 explaining what's going to happen to the economy.
03:50 And also the reports that set out that the wealthy are getting super wealthy
03:55 and the poor are getting even poorer.
03:57 And, ooh, what a shame.
03:59 And you don't get a sense of what are the actions you might take around wealth tax, for example.
04:03 What might you do to kind of close the gap of inequality?
04:06 I didn't hear any of those debates.
04:08 Anna, I mean, that is sort of the issue.
04:10 I mean, it has potential, Davos, because of the number of people, the type of people,
04:15 the influence they have on the ground.
04:17 But nothing really materialises, does it?
04:19 Yeah, I partially agree.
04:21 I think that when we look at the reports about global risk and threats,
04:25 and it talks about misinformation, disinformation, extreme weather events and so on and so forth,
04:30 but indeed the gap between the rich and poor is widened and is widening,
04:35 and is set to continue to widen.
04:37 There's also, you know, when we look at the population,
04:40 there's also a widening gap between the needs of urban societies and rural societies.
04:45 And people are really, really concerned about the economic situation and their standard of living.
04:50 I think that what we are seeing, and when we talk to people,
04:53 people are really worried about that their life standard is declining and is going to decline.
04:58 So I think when we look at Davos and limousines and choppers and helicopters,
05:02 I think this is really, it feels like it's not caring about the needs of society,
05:06 and it's really very far away from the needs of everyday people that are going to vote this year.
05:11 Because let us not forget, it's not only about the European elections,
05:14 it's about, you know, half of the world's population going to vote.
05:17 And they will really vote based on their needs and their concerns,
05:20 and that's mainly linked to inequalities and economic situation.
05:23 Petros, I mean, that's one of the issues that we're going to hear about.
05:26 You know, people are sort of resisting this inequality.
05:30 First of all, we have to acknowledge that our problems are global.
05:33 So it's good to see multilateralism still being alive and active.
05:37 It's important, I mean, the mere message behind the idea of European integration
05:41 is that we need to pull together, work together, cooperate to solve our common challenges.
05:45 I agree, though, that the visuals, the optics aren't right.
05:48 And of course, there is no connection between discussion and results, as it was already said.
05:53 But the fact remains that we do need to cooperate, and we do need to underline that
05:57 unless we work together, those global challenges that affect us all,
06:01 whether it's the economy, the environment, the rise of extremism, war,
06:06 if we don't work together, we won't be able to solve those issues.
06:09 We just have to offer solutions.
06:11 We have to demonstrate to people that our discussions actually produce results,
06:14 or the discussions that are taking place in Davos at the moment.
06:17 Because you mentioned, Anna, the issue of misinformation and the rise of the far right.
06:21 Let's go back to Maeve McMahon in Davos.
06:23 Maeve, you spoke with Vera Jarova, EU Commissioner for Values and Transparency.
06:27 What was her solution to all of this?
06:29 Well, Shona, that was not an easy question for Vera Jarova to answer.
06:33 But what she did say she is doing is she's trying to rein in the big tech,
06:37 making sure that they help in countering hate speech and misinformation online,
06:42 and also prevent riots like the ones we saw in Dublin take place before Christmas,
06:46 because one thing is clear here, the future is not in your hands, it is not in my hands,
06:51 it is in those of Meta, TikTok, Microsoft, the companies that you see spread out here in Davos.
06:56 And Vera Jarova actually sat down with those companies and told them
06:59 that they have to play by the rules when doing business here in Europe.
07:03 Uncertainty is one of the drivers of the far right.
07:10 With big tech, it's always the same thing.
07:12 I speak about the need to protect our electoral system against hidden manipulation,
07:18 so it is also covering AI, and against the very pushy campaigns containing disinformation.
07:29 Domenca, I mean, at least Vera Jarova is getting to sit down with these people
07:33 at a forum like Davos all together, where the EU is trying, at least trying,
07:38 to rein them in ahead of half the world's population going to the polls this year.
07:42 Indeed. I mean, Europe's led on doing things well and for good on tech matters, OK?
07:48 We know GDPR, all the rest of it.
07:50 But she doesn't have to go to Davos to meet the tech players.
07:53 I mean, and why now? What I would like to hear more is,
07:56 what have they been doing the past 18 months?
07:58 We haven't just discovered we're having an election this year,
08:00 and we know about the excesses that are taking place.
08:03 And it's been great. I mean, some of the commissioners have done a fantastic job
08:06 of fining tech companies and trying to create a value base about behaviour.
08:11 But my only concern is it's a little bit too late and not enough.
08:15 And the issue is, for too long we've relied on elective behaviour.
08:20 So she sat down as a previous commissioner and said, you know, by election,
08:24 behave this way, rather than actually regulating behaviour.
08:29 And I think the risks are so high, we know about the level of disinformation,
08:33 what's happening on people's phones every day.
08:36 And when you think about the lack of tech savviness across our communities,
08:41 older generations and younger generations, the risk is so high.
08:44 And I think that what they ought to have done is much earlier,
08:46 but now sit down now and work out a plan of how people will be able to trust
08:52 what they're receiving on TikTok elsewhere.
08:55 There has to be a methodology.
08:56 And actually, working with the tech giants, they can do it very easily.
08:59 Well, someone who also spoke about this was President of the European Commission,
09:02 Ursula von der Leyen.
09:03 She was, of course, in Davos.
09:04 But she said that the top concern for the next two years isn't conflict or climate.
09:09 It's disinformation, misinformation, followed closely by polarisation within our societies.
09:15 Anna, I mean, that's an incredible warning, knowing that climate has been the top of the agenda
09:19 for years because our planet needs to be saved.
09:22 Absolutely. I mean, climate change has been one of the major issues,
09:26 one of the major concerns for years now.
09:27 But just coming back very quickly, maybe to comment on what has been said about misinformation,
09:33 disinformation, it is not happening just now.
09:35 It has been happening for years.
09:36 We have seen this happening, I think, for at least the past 10 years,
09:39 but it's only now being taken seriously.
09:41 And I think what is very important to think about here is that misinformation
09:45 and disinformation can undermine the legitimacy of newly elected government.
09:48 And we are not looking at that because the institutions are already in a crisis of legitimacy.
09:53 So I think that if that is not addressed, if that is not tackled properly, this is a major, major issue.
09:58 And fake news is travelling much faster than facts, than real news.
10:02 And, you know, we are having also young voters who are voting for the first time, 18-year-olds,
10:07 in some cases 16-year-olds, who have, you know, grown up in the world of Internet and social media
10:12 and have been, you know, exposed to misinformation and disinformation their whole life.
10:15 And I think this is clearly that needs to be addressed not only now.
10:19 It should have been addressed already.
10:20 But the efforts on this should have been much stronger.
10:23 And the same, of course, you know, misinformation does not cancel out, of course,
10:26 climate change and, you know, extreme weather conditions that we are facing.
10:29 And this is something that I feel it's not, it's been talked about,
10:33 but no clear and major steps have been taken towards it.
10:37 And because that point Anna was making about delegitimising governments,
10:42 we saw what happened on January 6th in the United States.
10:46 Do you think that we've learned from that or learning or at least concerned ahead of the European elections?
10:51 I'm not entirely sure that we have.
10:53 And our polling has shown a consistent decline in support for democracy across Europe.
10:57 People are feeling that the democratic system we have at the moment isn't delivering for them.
11:02 A lot of them are actually starting to question whether democracy itself is a form of governance
11:07 that will deliver the answers they need on the economy, on the environment, on social issues.
11:12 And I think that is a really scary part.
11:14 Voting every five years and not seeing anything for it is really putting people off democracy.
11:20 And we need to reconsider a little bit how we engage our fellow citizens in the decisions that affect them.
11:24 How do we make our democracy more participatory, more deliberative, open and transparent
11:29 to ensure that they can also have a say in the decisions that affect them?
11:33 Just briefly before I go to the cost of living crisis, Darmenta,
11:36 what Petrus just said there, Petrus just said was that people are questioning whether democracy is for them.
11:43 Absolutely. There's good news and bad news.
11:45 The good news is that just under 50% of the population in Europe believe or trust the EU more than their local government.
11:53 So there's only about 16% of the population in Europe that actually trust their national government
11:58 to do the delivery of what they need.
12:00 But there's a fantastic and incredible fact that we, and that's not to be a positive,
12:04 is that the sense of belief in institution is dropping generation by generation.
12:10 And I think one of the things that we need to do is both short term and long term,
12:14 I think if you've got this election happening, we know what's going on in terms of disinformation.
12:19 The commission should be creating a massive approach, which is sitting down with various sectors,
12:24 including tech, and say, how do we make sure we solve this in a way that we have a better election turnout?
12:29 But secondly, long term, introduce civic education in schools.
12:33 Make sure that people learn about the importance of voting.
12:36 Make sure they understand how to understand disinformation and misinformation.
12:40 But I do think, if we don't recognise this properly and we can sit in Davos,
12:45 we'll reach a social tipping point where people will be so disaffected, they'll just remove themselves.
12:50 Completely, and disengage completely.
12:52 Because if the current trends continue, the world will have its first trillionaire within a decade, according to Oxfam,
12:58 but poverty won't be eradicated for another 229 years.
13:02 Let's go back to Maeve McMahon at Davos.
13:04 Maeve, what are they saying about the average struggling person,
13:07 and how this might encourage them to vote during the EU election?
13:11 Well, I didn't hear many panels here on that issue of inequality shown,
13:15 especially given the fact that one in two Europeans are struggling to pay their bills, according to Eurostat.
13:21 And 95 million Europeans are living on the poverty line, especially in countries like Romania and Bulgaria.
13:27 And it's of course these bread and butter issues that people will be thinking of when they go to vote this June,
13:32 if, of course, they vote.
13:34 But to get his take on what a meeting like Davos can do to address these kind of issues,
13:39 I spoke to Luc Treyang.
13:41 He is the Secretary General of the International Trade Union Confederation.
13:45 People feel that they are left behind.
13:48 They are not getting their fair share of wealth created.
13:51 We have seen an incredible cost of living crisis over the last years, high inflation,
13:57 and at the same time we see that the profits of companies have never been that high as now.
14:03 Inequality is existing and is growing.
14:05 So rebuilding trust means you have to redistribute wealth, you need to rebalance the economic power.
14:11 Workers need to be part of the debates.
14:14 And that message we give because only that can create a sustainable growth.
14:18 Anna, you know, the cost of living crisis, we've acknowledged it for so long,
14:23 but the profits of these companies are doubling and doubling.
14:25 Are we helpless here?
14:27 I don't think we're necessarily helpless.
14:29 Actually, the Martin Center, we have done a survey recently where we polled 27 member states
14:33 and we asked the middle class what is their concern.
14:35 And what emerged from it is that half of the respondents,
14:37 no matter from which geographical location they were coming from,
14:40 they said that they have seen their standard of living decreasing over the past two years
14:44 and they expect it to worsen in the next two years.
14:46 And that, of course, leads to a drop of trust in institutions because they're in national governments,
14:51 especially as Dermendo was saying, because the middle class feels,
14:55 the citizens feel like their governments failed at putting forward policies that address this.
15:00 But the positive news here is that they believe that inflation and the economic situation
15:05 and climate change can be reversed with the right policies.
15:08 So I think what is needed there is definitely a new approach,
15:12 reforms that and measures that do increase productivity, that tackle, lower the cost of living.
15:19 But I think also what is needed here is that we have been focused for so long only on economic growth
15:24 by forgetting the well-being of the people.
15:26 So I think that policies that put, you know, have a more balanced approach to growth,
15:30 but with the well-being of people in the center of the policy is very important
15:34 and creating this inclusiveness, more synergy between EU institutions, national government,
15:38 and civil society to bring everybody in the conversation and to make citizens feel heard
15:42 and that something is being done.
15:44 So this is the way forward.
15:46 Petros, you're kind of at the coal phase.
15:48 You're doing your research about a year now ahead of the European elections.
15:51 Will people listen to that?
15:53 Will they be convinced for another four years that eventually, finally,
15:58 people are listening at the top, you know, the Commission, the governments and so on?
16:03 The sense we get is that people feel disempowered.
16:06 They think that their voice hasn't been heard up until now, and they're considering alternatives.
16:10 We have seen the rise of the far right, of extreme parties across the political spectrum,
16:15 in various member states.
16:17 We have seen it also beyond the shores of the European Union.
16:20 And the reason for that is because they feel that traditional political parties,
16:24 established political elites, haven't delivered on the issues they care about the most.
16:28 You know, we have just gone through a pandemic, a major health crisis.
16:33 We see the emergence of war across our continent and beyond, of course.
16:38 And the sense is that we are disempowered.
16:41 We cannot do something about the things that matter to us.
16:44 So I think redistribution of wealth, reengineering our economy,
16:47 refocusing a little bit our attention away from growth to well-being,
16:51 is certainly something that will help.
16:53 But also the question of participation.
16:56 I think people feel that they are not shareholders of the decisions that affect them.
17:00 They see an economic and a political elite that is distancing itself more and more and more and more.
17:05 And it's our job, whether it's civil society, think tanks, political parties,
17:09 to engage with these people and give them access to the decisions that affect them.
17:12 Well, we know that a huge majority of Europeans do believe that climate change is a serious problem facing the world.
17:17 But who's going to pay for the bulk of the sacrifice?
17:20 Are we all supposed to pay for the use of Jim Bezos or Kim Kardashian's private jets?
17:24 We're crossing back to Maeve in Davos for more on the climate.
17:27 Maeve.
17:28 Well, Seona, look at some of the posters that you can see around Davos this week.
17:32 Let's restore biodiversity together.
17:36 The climate is changing and so do we.
17:38 And we also saw this week the secretary general of the UN, Antonio Guterres,
17:42 be on centre stage telling the world what is at stake for the planet.
17:47 But the reality is across the continent, the Greens are losing bandwidth
17:51 and the Friday for Future movement has lost momentum.
17:54 They're focused now more on the plight of the Palestinians.
17:57 For more on her take on what Davos can do to fix these issues regarding the planet,
18:02 I asked Jojo Meta.
18:04 She's the co-founder of Stop Ecoside International.
18:07 There is so much damage happening to the natural world.
18:10 No matter all the talk from governments, it's absolutely time to put in place a legal mechanism
18:16 to hold accountable and to deter people from severely damaging the natural world,
18:21 which sustains us.
18:23 We can't eat, we can't breathe, we can't do anything without a healthy ecosystem.
18:27 Farmers are indeed revolting and there is so much controversy
18:30 and so much polarisation and fragmentation.
18:32 And actually, that's why a law like this is so important,
18:34 because it's so basic and foundational and common sense.
18:37 It doesn't say you must do this, you must do that, you must do the other.
18:40 What it says is whatever you do, it should not create a certain level of destruction
18:45 because that becomes dangerous. It becomes dangerous to all of us.
18:48 Everybody agrees that climate change is the issue of our time.
18:52 But looking at Davos, I mean, again, you're quite pessimistic.
18:55 What do you think about the next few years ahead in relation to this?
18:59 The issue is, look, we're on kind of autopilot.
19:02 There's a kind of rinse and repeat approach to how we deal with some of these topics.
19:06 And, you know, I love all the questions and issues that are being raised,
19:09 but we've heard them before.
19:11 What we need to do is move away from describing the problem and chest beating
19:15 to doing something practical.
19:16 But again, if we look at examples of what's happened in London or in France
19:21 or in, you know, the kind of the Scandinavian countries elsewhere,
19:24 because we've taken so long to engage with people on the need to adapt or change things,
19:29 people suddenly feel, why is my life being controlled?
19:32 And if you knew about the problem all this time, why did you do something earlier?
19:35 And I think the issue here is about making sure that you have a sensitive approach
19:39 to the fact that people aren't making sense of their lives economically.
19:43 Well, I'm afraid that's all we have for this part of the show.
19:45 But stay with us because after the break, we'll discuss President Zelensky's message at Davos.
19:50 See you soon here on Euronews.
19:53 [Music]
20:00 Welcome back to Brussels, my love.
20:02 Euronews' weekly talk show on European affairs.
20:06 Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky was also in Davos this week,
20:10 urging Western governments to stay the course with Kiev
20:13 as the Russian invasion rages into its second year.
20:16 It's not an easy task for him given the current global instability, such as the Middle East.
20:21 And last month, Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban blocked a vital money,
20:25 50 billion euro lifeline for Ukraine.
20:28 Maeve, what is the view from Davos on the aid for Ukraine?
20:31 Well, Sean, of course, that big issue of funding for Ukraine and the 50 billion euro package
20:37 that's being held up by the Hungarian government came up a lot here in Davos this week.
20:41 And in fact, I asked the President of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen,
20:46 how President Zelensky felt about being caught up in European politics.
20:50 My personal priority is to have an agreement by 27.
20:54 If this is not possible, we are prepared for an agreement by 26,
20:59 but I strongly support and prefer an agreement by 27.
21:04 Anna, you're Ukrainian.
21:06 How does it make you feel that, you know, you had this political euphoria with Ukraine and EU
21:12 going to start negotiations for accession, and then at the last minute,
21:15 Viktor Orban blocks 50 billion euro lifeline?
21:19 Well, I think, you know, one doesn't cancel out the other.
21:21 I think the message that has been sent with the granting of the opening of the accession talks
21:27 is a tremendous positive sign towards Ukraine and of the willingness of the EU to accept Ukraine
21:32 into the European Union.
21:35 And I think it's important to underline that the support from the EU towards Ukraine has been tremendous.
21:40 What is important now is indeed to have the Ukraine facility, the 50 billion euros approved,
21:45 and ideally as part of the EU budget.
21:48 So with all the 27 member states voting for it.
21:50 I think that, you know, what we are witnessing here, the position of Viktor Orban is not about Ukraine.
21:54 It's really about Hungary and Hungarian politics and what he can get out of the EU, you know, that benefits him.
21:59 So I think I'm really hopeful and positive that the Ukraine facility will be approved as part of the EU budget
22:06 with the upcoming council.
22:08 But I think that in, you know, worst case scenario, the money will still come from bilateral agreements
22:13 with the member states, but it sends a different signal.
22:15 But I still think that this is vital. We need to understand that, you know, it's not only about stopping the conflict.
22:19 It's also about recovery, reconstruction and modernization of Ukraine.
22:23 Petros, you know, that's the important point, and it's about Hungarian national politics.
22:27 But nonetheless, despite the motivation, it still impacts Ukraine and Ukrainian membership.
22:31 There's a lot more vetoes that Viktor Orban has down the road.
22:34 Exactly. And that's why the problem is structural here, because there will always be an Orban.
22:39 There will always be a difficult player that tries to derail the process.
22:43 So we need to get to grips with the decision making, the way we take decisions at the European level.
22:48 For far too long, we have allowed the system that necessitates 27 shareholders to come together
22:53 and agree unanimously on every little thing.
22:56 And it cannot work like this.
22:58 You know, Delors' passing reminded us that the way to have a common market was to do away with unanimity.
23:03 The way to have common defense, to protect not just Ukraine, but also EU, current EU member states
23:09 that are threatened openly by Russia, is to do away with unanimity and move to a proper defense union for the EU.
23:17 Well, I don't know. I mean, the EU is made up of quite a lot of small states who would say,
23:22 "Well, hold on a minute. Then my seat at the table is diminished."
23:25 Particularly, I come from Ireland, a country of five million people.
23:28 What do you think, Domenico? Will that fly?
23:30 I think it not necessarily will fly, but I think there's a time to be bold.
23:33 And I think I'm glad what the president said, Leslie von Kahn, said that, you know,
23:36 if it happens, then we'll go with a lower number.
23:39 Because, you know, people think there has to be a consensual and unanimity, but there are ways around it.
23:45 We've seen what's happened with, you know, the package on post-COVID.
23:48 27 or 15 can make an agreement to go for something.
23:51 There are mechanisms called the common agreement that people can do if there is enough, 15 or more, to go for it.
23:57 So I think you need to have a time now to be bold and say, "Stand up for what is right."
24:03 Because I think in an election year, one of the dangers of this debate, and Victor Orbán knows exactly what he's doing,
24:09 don't forget, closely tied to Trump and other, you know, right-wing leaders,
24:13 is to unbalance or unseat what we think is healthy democracy and move towards more kind of negative, autocratic modes of working.
24:22 But if we in Europe don't actually call it out and actually say, "This is important for our future, our future safety,"
24:30 I think in this polling, the six months that we have ahead of us, given misinformation and the actions of people like Orbán,
24:36 what you'll see is a toxic, really toxic narrative about us, only look after me, and actually we don't need to support Ukraine any longer
24:44 because I can't feed my kids, I don't have a job, and look at all these migrants.
24:49 And there's every, every, you know, seed ground for this toxic narrative to emerge,
24:54 which will really disrupt politics in the next six months if we're not careful.
24:58 Sorry, just on a word though, do you think getting rid of unanimity is important or will solve the issue like Victor Orbán,
25:05 because there'll always be a Victor Orbán, as Petra said?
25:07 I think that what we need to move away from is from unanimity to qualified majority voting.
25:14 That's where you've got the majority of the member states saying, "We think this is the right thing."
25:18 Now, people can come in and out of that press if they want to.
25:20 That doesn't take away from the single market, that doesn't take away from your access to the EU,
25:24 but the EU needs to grow up and realise that when it was crafted, it was a different world.
25:30 We're in a world now where you have Victor Orbán, you have a union, a member, that's putting in place the most right-wing,
25:38 anti-democratic processes. That's what the union's about.
25:40 Well, Anna, look, Rustam Murmurov, the Ukrainian Defence Minister, was in Davos as well this week,
25:46 and he made the point that we've heard so many times, but I suppose it always needs to be repeated,
25:50 that had the West stood up to Putin in 2014, we wouldn't be where we are now.
25:55 How do you feel regarding that point, being a Ukrainian?
25:59 I agree, and I would even argue that had the West stood up to Putin in 2008, when it was about Georgia,
26:05 we wouldn't have had the 2014 and we wouldn't have had the 2022.
26:09 I agree with the statements, but unfortunately we cannot change the past.
26:12 But I also think that had the EU and the collective West been bolder in providing military assistance right away to Ukraine
26:22 at the beginning of the full-scale invasion, probably the war would have been over now.
26:26 So I think it's something to take into consideration, but also what we need to take into consideration is that 2024 is a pivotal year.
26:33 As we said, we are in the biggest election year in history.
26:36 We are going towards potential change in the White House, and that can really shift balances.
26:43 So I think that this is the year that the West, the EU, the US and the collective West needs to be bold,
26:48 needs to take decisions to really help Ukraine win the war and then move on with reconstruction, recovery and so on and so forth.
26:54 Because we are talking about a death sentence, not just for Ukraine, but also for the values that we stand up as democracy.
27:00 Just briefly, your response to that.
27:02 We have outsourced security for far too long, and the world is becoming fragmented, it's becoming uncertain.
27:07 We have a competition of ideologies between authoritarianism and democracy.
27:12 And I think as a European Union, and I put the emphasis on the Union, we have to start acting as one.
27:18 Defend ourselves, defend our values, provide for our citizens, and above all, give them the feeling that they are secure and safe within our Union.
27:25 Well, I have to cut you there. That's all we have time for on this topic, I'm afraid.
27:30 But stay tuned on Euronews for more info about Davos.
27:33 For now, I want to thank my excellent panel for being with us in a very interesting discussion.
27:37 And thank you for watching. See you soon here on Euronews.
27:40 And welcome back to Brussels, my love, Euronews' weekly show on all things European and beyond.
27:53 Thanks for joining us.
27:55 Well, as we mentioned at the start, it's just six months to the European elections,
27:58 and as you'll see, the EU is looking for a foreign intervention to encourage young people to vote.
28:05 Let me say that no one can mobilise youth better than young people.
28:11 That's how it works. It's young people who can mobilise young people to participate.
28:17 More, I think, than commissioners from the press room.
28:20 Just to give you an example, Taylor Swift, last September,
28:28 she made a social media call to young Americans to register to vote.
28:34 The day after her post, 35,000 young Americans had registered to vote.
28:42 Now, Taylor Swift will be in Europe in May. 9th of May, Europe Day, she will be in Paris for a concert.
28:52 So I would very much hope that she does the same for young Europeans,
28:57 and I very much hope that someone from her media team follows this press conference and relay our request to her.
29:04 And Vice President of the European Commission, Commissioner Schienes, there, speaking to the press.
29:11 Dharmendra, do you think Taylor Swift's press team are watching that? Do you think they're active now?
29:16 I'm not sure they are. But don't forget, for Taylor Swift, Europe's a huge economic gain.
29:21 Every hotel in every city that she's going to be in is almost sold out.
29:25 And so there's a kind of economic vibe to this as well.
29:28 But in reality, there's a lot of talk about whether it should be her or not,
29:32 or whether she's European or not, and is a bit desperate.
29:35 I think it's a lot of nonsense. Young people don't consume popular culture by borders.
29:39 She is international. And we've just been talking about how there's a lack of faith in politics.
29:45 Anything we can do to aspire young people to say, if you don't like it, you want to change it, vote it.
29:51 And that's a key message. The only thing I'd say about Schienes is that great, good for him.
29:55 But in your own backyard, you have got multiple influencers.
30:00 And bring them round the table now, this month, and say, what can we do to increase the youth turnout,
30:07 tackle disinformation and make sure we feel good?
30:09 We should take away the negative and actually make people feel positive about voting.
30:14 And is the EPP considering something like this?
30:16 Well, I'm not sure. I will have to ask the communications and campaign team about that.
30:21 But I think, you know, to just get back to Taylor Swift, I don't think it's a desperate move.
30:26 I think it's a move that really reflects the reality that we live in.
30:29 I mean, it's a fact that young voters turnout has always been an issue in every election,
30:33 not just in European elections. So anything that can mobilize the young voters to vote is a plus.
30:38 So I think, you know, be it Taylor Swift or be it another influencer, I mean, artists and influencers,
30:42 they can mobilize masses. It's a fact. They have a major following on all the social media,
30:48 which is the place where young voters consume their news and their information. So why not?
30:53 I mean, I do agree with Commissioner Schienes that sometimes young people really listen only to other young people
30:58 and not to, you know, fellow adults.
31:00 Yeah, Petros, I mean, that was kind of the point that Dharmendra was saying.
31:03 Like, it's also it's an optimistic thing, you know, get to the polling station and you can change things,
31:08 not be dragged there for the same, same old, same old for the next four years.
31:12 Absolutely. And politics, democracy is for all of us. And I think culture, cultural heritage, pop art have a role to play here.
31:20 You know, it shouldn't be reserved to middle-aged men and unfortunately, usually middle-aged white men in ties
31:25 or polo necks, if it's called, talking about issues, you know, it should be artists, creators,
31:31 it should be athletes talking about politics. You know, we have made it into a business
31:36 and people are afraid of the economic effect if they express an opinion. We should encourage that.
31:40 We should bring them in. We should have them because it's not more often, always people take their advice,
31:46 take their cue from those closest to them physically, but also artistically.
31:51 Well, now we're clear out of time for Brussels My Love this week, but thanks to the great panel we've had,
31:55 Darmendra Kanady, Anna Naliveko, Petrus Fasoulas. If you have any questions or you'd like to comment
32:01 on anything from the show that we talked about today, please do reach out.
32:04 You can send us an email to brusselsmylove@euronews.com. We're also on social media, Twitter, Instagram.
32:10 Big thanks to Maeve, of course, as well for all her insights. She'll be back next week, fresh from Davos.
32:16 But from me, Shona Murray, thank you for watching and see you soon on Euronews.
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