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00:00 Miles Bridges.
00:02 Last time we spoke about Miles Bridges in any depth,
00:04 I think it was our nine and 60 pod,
00:08 or nine, I can't remember, was it nine and 45?
00:11 Well, we talked about all the players
00:12 in basically six minutes.
00:13 We now have a much larger sample size for Miles Bridges,
00:19 which is, you know, beginning to get a better idea
00:23 of what he's gonna be as a player for this year.
00:24 So he's now played 19 games.
00:27 He's up at 36 minutes per game.
00:30 Yeah, I'm gonna let you lead off first here.
00:34 What is now really, you know,
00:35 a little bit on from his hot start,
00:37 what have been your big picture takeaways
00:39 of Miles Bridges' season so far?
00:41 Kind of got forgotten a little bit
00:42 in this myriad of injuries since he came back.
00:44 - So, I mean, he, for all the credit that he deserves,
00:50 did have a very good start when he came back.
00:52 The first like five or six games,
00:54 he was scoring very efficiently.
00:56 It was probably the reason that they won that Celtics game,
00:59 which seems so long ago,
01:02 but I think was the second most recent win
01:04 that the team had.
01:06 Was not even in the month of December, but I digress.
01:10 Those were, there was a very good stretch for him,
01:14 like right off the bat when he came back.
01:17 Since then, I genuinely think that every aspect
01:22 of his game has taken a dip
01:25 and I think I'll just start this
01:28 with my strongest take of everything.
01:30 I have my notes here.
01:32 There's like a very strong argument
01:33 that he is one of the worst perimeter defenders
01:36 on ball and off ball,
01:38 like all encompassing in the NBA right now.
01:41 And I'll be right off the bat,
01:45 the numbers don't align with that.
01:46 I'm pretty sure he's like barely even a negative player
01:49 in terms of on-off rating defensively,
01:51 but if you watch the Hornets play consistently,
01:55 which there are not many people that are doing
01:57 outside of the Hornets fan base in recent months, but-
02:01 - I didn't know that the Hornets fan base are right now.
02:03 - Right, yeah, that's actually a very good point.
02:05 But for those that are, I honestly,
02:07 I feel like he is perhaps one of the most mistake-prone
02:12 defensive players that I have watched
02:14 in my time watching basketball,
02:17 which granted is not all that long,
02:19 but it spans well over a decade at this point.
02:21 I'll start with on ball.
02:25 Defending opposing wings and forwards,
02:27 he has been like genuinely terrible.
02:29 He allows 1.2 points per possession
02:31 and isolation possessions per synergy,
02:33 which is the 11th percentile in the league.
02:36 And that matches the eye test.
02:37 He's poor and late on contests.
02:40 He doesn't utilize his strength or length
02:42 the way he does offensively.
02:44 He just gives up a lot of space and room
02:47 and doesn't really force anyone to do anything
02:49 in one-on-one situations,
02:51 which is especially concerning to me
02:53 since that's like ideally his role as a defender
02:55 on this team is being the guy that can guard opposing wings
02:58 and being able to limit them,
03:00 which is the most important position in the NBA right now.
03:04 The Hornets just don't have anybody
03:05 that can defend those players one-on-one.
03:08 And off-ball defense is much of the same.
03:10 His instincts to collect those like highlight reel,
03:13 help side blocks, and then just his general like
03:16 explosiveness, like maybe has improved,
03:19 like to give him some credit here defensively,
03:21 but it's just not impactful at all, like to me,
03:25 like he falls asleep off ball,
03:27 which frequently makes him late in rotation.
03:29 - On the strong side, not even like complex actions.
03:33 It's not even like, you know,
03:34 he has to chase through and elevate the screen
03:36 and he's getting caught.
03:37 This is like someone who's dribbling with the ball
03:41 and he's just like on the strong side.
03:42 He just doesn't check his shoulder for four seconds
03:45 and he sags too far for his man and he shoots the ball.
03:48 It's not even complex.
03:49 It's like he's, it's honestly like he doesn't care
03:53 the off-ball defensively.
03:54 He has zero interest, which is, you know,
03:56 in this, in pre-season, I remember during training camp,
04:00 one of his big things was he saying that he's focusing
04:03 on the defensive side of his game
04:05 'cause that's what Clifford wants him to focus on.
04:07 Well, if this isn't focusing, then holy hell,
04:10 like he has some major issues because I agree with you.
04:14 Like the off-ball stuff has been some of the worst
04:18 I've seen since he has been in Charlotte.
04:20 And like when you're younger, you can, you say,
04:22 oh, like he's still adapting to NBA concepts,
04:25 but I didn't care like from time off.
04:27 This is just stuff that like turns like,
04:29 you learn the scouting report,
04:30 you pay attention to shoot around in film.
04:33 These are things that you can learn.
04:34 This is not a sharpness fitness thing.
04:38 This is just, I just don't know if he's wired that way.
04:41 I really don't.
04:42 And it's annoying because we had that stretch
04:44 in the COVID year where he's coming off the bench
04:46 behind PJ Washington.
04:47 And he was playing really physically.
04:51 He's rebounding the ball at super high level
04:53 and he was playing good defense.
04:54 And he ended up forcing his way into the starting lineup
04:58 after coming off the bench.
04:59 And I almost think now that James Borrego did that
05:02 on purpose to kind of like light a fire under him
05:05 to try and get him to buy in to defend,
05:07 but just kind of gifting him into the starting lineup
05:10 and paying him 36 minutes tonight.
05:12 It's like he is just pacing himself on the defensive end.
05:16 I'm not sure for what, but it's just been,
05:20 I've not seen him defend well since that stretch in 2021,
05:24 which is a very sad thing to say.
05:26 - Right, and if you defend for one small stretch
05:30 when you come off the bench at the beginning of a season
05:32 in your five season career,
05:35 you are just an extremely unreliable player on that end.
05:39 Like there's no way around it.
05:41 And that is going to extremely hurt
05:43 or going to really hurt the team
05:45 considering how many minutes he plays.
05:47 Like he, right now, I think it helps
05:49 because he is like tethered to other good players
05:52 in the lineup because he's not,
05:55 he has actually been a playmaker in the last couple of games,
05:57 but he's really not a playmaker at all.
05:59 So he has to play with like other good players
06:02 and players that can pass the ball
06:03 and move the ball within the offense.
06:05 But defensively, he just is like,
06:09 I mean, he might be one of the worst defensive players
06:12 in the Hornets rotation right now, which is tough.
06:15 He is, he might be the biggest part of the problem,
06:18 like considering how much he plays
06:19 and what he's supposed to be for this team.
06:22 Like Terry Rozier is 6'1".
06:24 You can't blame it on him.
06:26 Nick Richards is supposed to be a backup center.
06:28 You can't fully blame it on him,
06:30 even though it's certainly partially his fault
06:32 now that he's been starting these games.
06:34 Miles is a 6'6" explosive, strong built,
06:39 like supposed to be able to switch
06:41 between guard and forward positions
06:43 and has the frame and athletic ability
06:45 to stick with really anybody in the league.
06:48 And he just doesn't do it and really has never done it.
06:51 And right now might be the worst stretch
06:53 in his entire career.
06:54 Like it's just not,
06:57 it's not something that's sustainable
06:59 for the Hornets at all.
07:00 Like it's just really, really tough to watch
07:03 over the last like couple of weeks.
07:05 - I can tell you've taken offense
07:09 of watching Miles Bridges play defense.
07:12 You don't often get like, you know,
07:14 emotive when you speak about the Hornets,
07:16 but that Miles Bridges defense
07:18 has definitely got your gears grinding, I can tell.
07:21 - I've got, I have a take that I don't think
07:23 there's anybody in the league that spends more time
07:26 standing still than Miles Bridges offensively, defensively.
07:29 There's nobody that spends more time
07:31 with their two feet flat on the ground,
07:33 standing in the same spot than Miles.
07:35 Like he has some strong positives as an offensive player,
07:40 but effort, engagement, like awareness, defense,
07:45 these are not a part of those positives.
07:49 - Well, on the other side of the ball,
07:52 it's fair to say his numbers have been a little bit down,
07:55 especially from where they were at the start,
07:57 but just generally compared to his career,
07:59 he's got a true shooting percentage of 53.4,
08:03 which the two previous seasons,
08:05 he was up in that 59 to 62 range.
08:08 He's always been like a pretty good, efficient player.
08:10 That has definitely dropped.
08:11 And look, it is the environment,
08:13 and we should have probably said this for Nick too,
08:15 the environment has not been great.
08:17 Players in and out of the lineup, tough opponents,
08:19 or we don't need to go over all that again.
08:22 But I will say there is definitely some of this
08:26 is self-inflicted with some of his decision-making
08:28 when he has the ball.
08:29 There's been a lot of isolations that I feel are,
08:33 these aren't end of the shot clock,
08:35 I need to get a shot isolations.
08:37 These are like 16 seconds left.
08:38 I'm gonna grab the ball, jab, step, jab, step,
08:41 and decide what I'm gonna do.
08:43 And I can't tell right now if Steve Clifford
08:48 is just kind of happy with the lack of offensive talent
08:51 for them to do that right now,
08:53 or if Miles Bridges is just like blowing off the system
08:55 and doing this, and Steve Clifford doesn't have a choice,
08:58 but to play him because of who else is available.
09:00 I honestly do not know which of those two things they are,
09:03 but it is a thing.
09:05 Bridges is taking 26% of his shots in the mid-range.
09:08 The last two seasons before this, he averaged out at 17%.
09:12 That's a pretty major jump.
09:14 And he's shooting a career low,
09:15 basically 33% from those mid-range areas.
09:18 So he's taking a lot more mid-range shots,
09:20 a lot of them being isolations,
09:22 and he's not making more of them.
09:23 His three-point shooting has dropped way back off now
09:28 to low 30s, which is kind of what he really is,
09:31 is a three-point shooter.
09:32 He's a 33, 34% shooter.
09:35 And I will say all the shooting rust
09:38 and the efficiency and the percentages,
09:40 those are the things I expected to be down
09:42 when he came back this year.
09:43 So I think it's important we be not too much of a prisoner
09:46 at the moment about the actual percentages on these things,
09:49 because he is still having to get back,
09:53 and he's having to play a lot of minutes
09:54 because of these injuries.
09:56 But it's the decision-making.
09:57 Like you said, decision-making in defense,
09:59 decision-making in offense.
10:00 That's where I think you can have
10:02 a more fair criticism generally.
10:05 But I think big picture, this is the thing.
10:08 If you've told me big picture,
10:10 these are the numbers after he came back,
10:13 I think I would probably say
10:15 that it was better than I thought.
10:16 Like if you're telling me, like back in July this year,
10:20 that by this point in the year,
10:21 this is what Miles Bridges is gonna average.
10:23 I'd go, "Oh, that's pretty good.
10:25 "He's not far off where he was."
10:26 So I think offensively,
10:29 we can't get too weighed down with some of his struggles.
10:33 I think some of it is decision-making,
10:35 which I think can be changed with better health,
10:37 a different system.
10:39 But I completely agree with you.
10:41 The defense side of things is my biggest area of concern.
10:46 And like you said, I just sometimes feel the stats
10:50 are a little bit empty.
10:51 Like I look up at the end of the game
10:52 and he's got like 26, seven, and four.
10:55 And I'm like, I just didn't feel like Miles Bridges
10:58 impacted that game in that way.
10:59 The one thing I will say is I didn't think
11:02 there was anyone like arguing strongly
11:04 that Miles Bridges is part of the core anymore.
11:07 And do you think like there's been a subtle enough change
11:09 that he's not come back and it's like,
11:11 "Well, we have to resign Miles Bridges."
11:14 I feel like that take is kind of now
11:16 beginning to wane a little bit.
11:18 It's like, well, yeah, he has signs and stuff like that,
11:21 but he's not changing the narrative on this team.
11:25 - Yeah, I think you're probably right.
11:29 I mean, I definitely think there's still a,
11:32 perhaps very vocal or disproportionately vocal minority
11:35 that kind of planted their flag in the beginning
11:39 of this whole Miles Bridges fiasco
11:40 by perhaps supporting him very strongly
11:44 right from the get-go that now are a little bit too far
11:47 down that road to go back and be like,
11:50 "No, actually the Hornets should give him up."
11:51 So I think a lot of those people
11:53 probably would still consider-
11:54 - And it's not let him walk.
11:55 I wanna make it clear.
11:56 It's not just let the guy walk.
11:57 It's about trading him, sign and trade.
12:00 You figure it out, right?
12:02 It's about getting something back.
12:03 And letting him walk, I do think would be,
12:06 again, organizational.
12:08 Well, no, from a strategic point of view would be poor,
12:11 but I could actually understand it
12:13 from a moral point of view
12:14 if the new owners wanted to take that approach.
12:16 But I didn't think it would be moral.
12:17 Let's just be honest.
12:18 They've already made the decision to resign him once.
12:21 If they wanted to send a moral message,
12:23 they could have done that last summer.
12:24 So I don't know.
12:25 - Yeah, no, and I agree.
12:28 And at this point, he was when he,
12:32 at the end of '21, '22, was like a,
12:35 what, maybe borderline all-star projection.
12:38 Maybe a guy that snuck onto one or two all-star teams.
12:41 I think that-
12:42 - If he snuck onto an all-star team in the next two years,
12:44 he wouldn't have been shot, right?
12:45 That's where he kind of was.
12:46 Yeah, I agree.
12:48 - I think that, combined with the fact
12:49 that he missed a year of his prime,
12:51 I think that's completely out the window at this point.
12:53 I don't think there is a relative chance
12:56 that he makes an all-star team in his career,
12:58 given how poor he is defensively, which we just said.
13:03 But also to what you just said,
13:05 he doesn't impact the game offensively.
13:08 The Hornets have lost 10 games in a row,
13:10 and they are 29th in offense,
13:12 with him as primarily being the number one scorer
13:16 that's not Terry Rozier, who also has to play point guard.
13:19 Miles' job on this team right now
13:21 is just to put the ball in the hoop.
13:23 He can probably take as many shots as he wanted,
13:26 which again, you said he was taking a lot of isolation shots.
13:30 It's probably somewhere in the middle
13:31 between the coaching staff just being happy
13:33 to let it happen 'cause they don't have other scorers,
13:35 and him wanting to put the team on his back.
13:38 And clearly it's not working in any positive way at all.
13:42 He has not been able to carry the team to wins
13:44 in Lamella's absence.
13:45 Which again, that's not something we should expect from him.
13:49 But if you were to be some all-star level borderline player,
13:52 you would be able to do that once or twice in 10 games.
13:56 But it hasn't happened.
13:58 So I agree with you that this is definitely someone
14:01 they should be looking to move on from,
14:03 not via free agency, but definitely trade
14:07 and just not consider him a part of their core anymore.
14:09 - And the best of Miles Bridges always was with Lamella Ball.
14:13 We have to remember that.
14:15 They did have an electric connection on the court.
14:18 It was there evident to see.
14:20 And you've not seen many chances where Lamella,
14:23 you know, Miles Bridges has been able to catch things
14:26 in transition and get in the dunker spot
14:28 and sneak behind the defense.
14:29 They have been rare.
14:30 And that's really where he was making, you know,
14:32 huge eye popping plays.
14:34 That's what his game was predicated around.
14:37 It wasn't around the outside shooting
14:39 on the mid-range shooting.
14:41 But he's now having to lean into that more
14:43 because I don't think he's getting the ball
14:45 in those same areas.
14:46 So we have to always remember the context here
14:48 is not the best, but I understand what you mean
14:51 in terms of like, if you're gonna be an all-star level
14:54 player, then like you're able to adapt your context
14:57 around and influence.
14:58 And I don't think we've seen him successfully do that.
15:01 But to argue the side, maybe it is unfair to be expecting
15:05 that after a full year off and he's coming back
15:07 into a changeable rotation.
15:10 And yeah, but I agree.
15:15 I think overall, I would say I probably fall like flat
15:18 on it.
15:19 Like if you look at the numbers, take everything into account
15:22 I'd be pleasantly surprised.
15:23 The eye test is probably worse than that.
15:26 I kind of fall somewhere just like in the middle,
15:29 like a five out of 10.
15:30 Whereas I think most people have kind of maybe soured
15:34 even more on that.
15:35 I still think there are things that he can do offensively
15:37 that just not many players on this team can.
15:39 And he gives a level of rim protection, shooting
15:42 and passing that we don't have a lot of in this team.
15:46 But it's just not being harnessed in the right way
15:48 right now.
15:49 And I don't know how much of that is injuries and system
15:52 or Miles Bridges himself.
15:53 - While we're on the topic, James, I got a question for you.
15:58 If the Hornets were to move Miles this season
16:02 and he were willing to waive his no trade clause, say,
16:05 I mean, really just for any team that you would be willing
16:08 to trade him to, what would you expect his trade value
16:13 to be?
16:14 Do you think he's somebody right now, given how he's played
16:17 and obviously the legal situation that renders him
16:21 unreliable because he's not even allowed to travel
16:23 to Canada right now.
16:25 And he still has a court date pending for February,
16:27 which is after the trade deadline.
16:29 So this will not be resolved before that happens.
16:33 What do you think his value is?
16:36 He's obviously a player that on his face is worth something
16:39 in a trade, but like, do the Hornets have to give something
16:42 up to get something good back?
16:43 Like, is it just something that teams are gonna not ignore,
16:47 but just kind of put to the side for now,
16:49 since he already was suspended for a year?
16:51 So where do you land on that?
16:53 - Let's start with the legal stuff.
16:55 What I've heard around the legal stuff is that the Hornets
16:59 are not as concerned about the latest charge
17:03 as they were about the initial charge.
17:06 I won't go into details as to why, but they're less concerned
17:10 it's gonna have an impact on his availability.
17:13 That's what I've heard.
17:14 I don't know that to be fact,
17:15 but that's just what I've heard.
17:17 So if that were to be the case,
17:19 I imagine other teams would get wind of that
17:21 and would have access to some of the legal stuff.
17:23 So I'm kind of assuming that the availability point of view
17:28 from a legal standpoint wouldn't be an issue.
17:31 Canada probably still would be.
17:33 So-
17:34 - Not getting traded to the Raptors.
17:36 You can rule that one out.
17:37 - You can definitely rule that one out.
17:39 Look, I think this really depends on his agency and Clutch,
17:44 which are representing him.
17:46 Clutch were very, very good to Miles Bridges
17:49 throughout his whole NBA suspension.
17:51 I believe I've even heard that they let Miles stay
17:54 in accommodation rented by Clutch,
17:57 and they had people stay with him
17:59 to make sure that he was okay through it all.
18:01 They went extra mile to support him,
18:03 and for a player to go through all of this
18:05 and not change agencies,
18:07 that shows that he's very much loyal to them.
18:10 And we know that Clutch have relationships
18:12 with certain executives around the league and certain teams.
18:15 We know the LA Lakers, LeBron James,
18:18 are very closely linked with Clutch.
18:21 So they are known to make kind of ahead of time decisions
18:26 and planning with their free agents beforehand.
18:30 So let's say, for example,
18:32 Miles Bridges was traded to the Lakers,
18:34 he's gonna resign now, right?
18:36 I think you could buck that in.
18:38 And at that point,
18:39 you're probably willing to maybe give up more
18:41 because you know you're gonna keep the guy.
18:43 How many situations Clutch and Miles Bridges
18:45 would be willing to kind of make that
18:47 under the table handshake on?
18:49 I don't know.
18:50 I don't imagine there are that many,
18:53 if I'm being really honest, but there will be some.
18:55 So I think his trade value could be very variable
18:58 due to that, because if you're getting him
19:01 as a true rental versus getting him with a wink, wink,
19:05 nudge that you're gonna resign,
19:06 those are very, very two different things.
19:08 But I mean, I don't think his trade value is great,
19:13 if I'm being really honest right now,
19:16 because he's someone that he kind of,
19:18 at the minute, if you look at the tape this year,
19:20 well, he's not a good defender, as we've talked about,
19:23 and he's not a great floor spacer.
19:25 So you need to put the ball in his hands.
19:27 Well, are any of these playoff teams
19:28 gonna wanna put the ball in the hands of Miles Bridges
19:31 in the starting unit?
19:32 Probably not.
19:33 So if you're looking for a sixth man, okay,
19:36 but then you're talking about like a sixth man
19:38 for a playoff team, are you giving around
19:40 a first round pick for that?
19:42 Maybe, like a, maybe a bad one.
19:45 I don't think it's great, if I'm being really honest.
19:48 And that's why I just think it's unlikely
19:52 that they do trade him at this deadline,
19:54 even though it might make some sense
19:56 that no trade calls hurts as well.
19:59 I didn't think he has a great deal of value, Chase.
20:02 I'd love to give you better information than that,
20:05 but I don't think he's gonna be worth,
20:10 I think like a late first round pick
20:13 was probably where I'd peg his value,
20:15 which for someone who averages 27 and three
20:20 is like not a lot, but for all his mitigating circumstances
20:25 that we've talked about.
20:26 - Yeah, I was just gonna say,
20:27 I unfortunately don't think that his trade value
20:31 is commensurate with the value he produces
20:34 or provides in the box for, at least.
20:37 - Would you do it for a late first,
20:39 let's say like a first between 23 and 28.
20:44 If you could get a first round pick in this year's draft,
20:47 that makes it more difficult, right?
20:49 In this year's draft, for Miles Bridges
20:52 and an expiring contract, let's say,
20:54 would you do that straight straight up for Miles?
20:56 - Oh yeah, like absolutely.
20:59 - Really?
20:59 - So I don't know if the Lakers would wanna do this,
21:01 but I think that if they wanted to just upgrade
21:04 on the Tory and Prince slot,
21:07 I believe they can just trade Miles Bridges
21:09 for Tory and Prince outright and that trade would work.
21:14 And it does work in the trade machine.
21:16 So if they wanted to upgrade on that spot
21:18 and turn what is maybe a more efficient floor spacer
21:22 in Tory and Prince into somebody that can-
21:24 - What picks will it have?
21:25 - I don't know, I'll have to look a little bit more.
21:27 I think they only have future picks,
21:30 like in 2028 or something like that,
21:32 or second round picks.
21:35 They have a couple from the Clippers, I think,
21:37 that are second round picks.
21:38 And I think they have a bunch of late 2020s,
21:42 future firsts as well.
21:42 - It says here, it says they have a 2025 first round pick
21:46 and they have a 2026 first round pick,
21:48 which would mean they can trade one of those.
21:51 They would have to keep one.
21:54 In fact, they would have to keep 2025
21:57 because they've traded this year's.
21:59 So that means that they could trade a 2020.
22:01 And then it gets more complicated.
22:04 No, they are talking about 29, 29, 30.
22:06 So you're talking about like a late future first round pick.
22:09 - Which given the career stage of LeBron and Anthony Davis,
22:14 I don't think they'd be willing to give that up
22:16 for Miles Bridges.
22:16 You'd probably wanna be getting like Siakam
22:19 or something like that if you're giving up a pick like that.
22:23 - It just depends.
22:25 But yeah, I'd say that's where things are up with Miles.
22:27 Like I still think like the franchise,
22:31 if I was in charge of the Hornets, I'd be saying,
22:33 doesn't look great right now,
22:35 but let's wait till we get to see Miles Bridges
22:37 back on the court with like actually a NBA
22:41 starting caliber unit, which the Hornets do have.
22:44 It is semi respectable.
22:46 We've just not seen it at all
22:47 before we make our final decisions.
22:51 That's what I'm saying right now.
22:52 I'm not jumping to any conclusions just yet.