In the latest episode of Talkin' C's, Bobby Krivitsky, Jack Simone, and Sam LaFrance share their favorite aspects of the Celtics' win over the Kings, preview Boston's matchups vs. the Clippers and Lakers, and break down Derrick White's All-Star candidacy.
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00:00 (upbeat music)
00:02 And we are back with another episode
00:10 of How 'Bout Them Celtics Talkin' Seeds
00:12 with Bobby Keritsky of SI Media Group.
00:14 Bobby, how you doing today?
00:15 - Doing fantastic, guys.
00:16 Just enjoying two days where the workload
00:19 gets a little bit lighter
00:21 with the Celtics on the West Coast.
00:23 And very excited, though, we will talk about
00:26 these games in Los Angeles coming up,
00:28 including the Christmas showdown against LeBron and company.
00:31 - Yes, sir.
00:32 Holiday season, Celtics on the West Coast in California
00:36 for the holidays.
00:37 Before we get to Clippers and the Christmas Day Lakers,
00:40 let's backtrack a little and talk about the Kings.
00:43 Celtics walked into Sacramento
00:45 on the second night of back-to-back
00:46 after getting stomped by, or not stomped,
00:49 but disappointingly beated by the Warriors in overtime.
00:53 They were none too pleased with what the Los Cowas
00:55 saying on the broadcast, how they went on the bus ride
00:57 and it was quiet and no one was very happy.
00:59 And they responded without Jason Tatum, without Al Horford,
01:03 and they killed the Kings.
01:05 They said, "You know what, Kings?
01:07 "You might've come out hot in the first quarter.
01:09 "Darren Fox might've been on fire, but we're better,
01:11 "and we're just gonna stomp 'em."
01:13 Got the win.
01:14 Bobby, what are your biggest takeaways from that one?
01:16 - Well, so I think that shows the resolve of this team.
01:19 And Tatum's talked about it before, and Jalen has too.
01:22 They don't want to let one bad loss snowball.
01:26 And in this case, having the back-to-back,
01:28 I wasn't sure, not that I was making any declarations
01:32 or leaning one way or the other,
01:33 I was just curious to see how they responded
01:36 to having to play the next night.
01:38 And it turned out to be a positive,
01:40 that they had to take the court.
01:42 One of the most impressive facets of that win
01:46 is that Kings' high-octane offense,
01:48 the Celtics outscored them in transition 30 to six,
01:52 which speaks to how they did offensively and defensively
01:55 in that regard against one of the most difficult
01:58 fast-break offenses to slow down.
02:00 And also, I know the first quarter
02:02 was this really entertaining slugfest
02:04 where they were trading threes,
02:06 but in the middle two frames,
02:08 Boston held Sacramento to six made shots
02:11 from beyond the arc total.
02:12 So that, again, that defense laying the foundation
02:15 for their success was on display
02:17 as they got back to playing Celtics basketball.
02:20 - Yeah, Jag and I texted about the first quarter
02:23 as it was happening, and I was obviously unhappy
02:25 'cause I was like, "Look at this,
02:26 "they didn't get a stop in the fourth quarter
02:28 "of the night before, now they can't get a stop
02:30 "against the Kings."
02:31 But a lot of those shots they did make were tough,
02:34 like Jag told me when I was all upset and he calmed me down.
02:38 As the game went on, the Celtics continued
02:41 to play a calm game.
02:43 They continued to execute on offense.
02:45 Obviously, they hung 144 on the Kings.
02:49 But the ball movement was really good.
02:51 Like, there's a reason why they had five different guys
02:55 have 20 points, six guys in double figures with Hauser too.
02:58 They have been playing really well as a team.
03:01 It's a reason why both Pritchard and Hauser
03:03 have stepped up big time this season as a whole,
03:06 but particularly over these last 10 games.
03:10 They've just proven that they are a worthy shot taker
03:15 in plenty of situations.
03:17 And a lot of the guys on this team definitely feel that way
03:20 about themselves, that's why you see somebody
03:22 like Derek White have such big games
03:25 because they all believe in each other.
03:28 Derek White being able to pop off for 28 points
03:30 on back-to-back nights is special when he's somebody
03:33 on the season that's averaging 15,
03:35 because he has to take a lesser role
03:37 when Tatum and Brown are healthy and Porzingis
03:39 because they are the all-star, high-level players.
03:43 And I know we'll talk about Derek White
03:44 as an all-star a little later.
03:46 But just the buy-in from everybody
03:48 is really something great to see overall.
03:50 - That's just what I was gonna say.
03:52 I wrote about it after the Kings game.
03:55 Usually when Jason Tatum's out or big players are out,
03:59 you see certain guys try to do too much,
04:02 say, you know, best player's out, this guy's out,
04:05 let me step up, I'll do a little bit more.
04:06 That's not what you saw in the Kings game.
04:08 Everyone did what they had normally been doing.
04:11 I think Jaylen Brown had seven assists.
04:13 Derek White played well around the game.
04:16 He ended up, I don't know if he led the team in scoring,
04:18 but he was up there.
04:20 - Him and Jaylen tied 28 a piece.
04:21 - Yeah.
04:23 They tied to lead the team in scoring,
04:24 but all the shots he got were in the floor of the offense.
04:26 Same goes for Jaylen.
04:26 He was aggressive while also making the right play,
04:28 which he's been doing a great job at this season.
04:30 Chris Dobbs had 24, Holiday had 21,
04:32 Pritchard had 25 different Celtics.
04:34 Had 20 points in that game.
04:35 They finished with 35 assists on 31 made baskets.
04:38 They were playing basketball the right way.
04:40 They didn't change the way they were playing
04:42 just because some people were out.
04:43 They didn't change the way they were playing
04:44 because the Kings got off to a hot start.
04:46 They committed to the way
04:49 that they've been playing basketball.
04:50 Sam, you said it on the last talk in the season.
04:52 It's like blackjack.
04:52 If you commit to your strategy and keep going,
04:54 you'll usually turn up good in the long run.
04:57 Except in basketball, there's not really-
04:59 - Unless you're the Pistons.
05:00 - Unless you're the Pistons.
05:01 Well, that's different.
05:02 That's like playing blackjack the wrong way
05:04 and committing to playing it the wrong way
05:05 and expecting-
05:06 - No, that's what I mean.
05:07 Like you commit to your strategy, it has to work out.
05:09 But they're not even-
05:10 - They're not even going over 21.
05:12 They're just not remotely close to it.
05:15 I hope they keep losing
05:16 'cause the Celtics have them next week.
05:18 And if they're still on the streak when they come to town,
05:21 I'm gonna have a lot of fun with it.
05:23 I know that.
05:24 I'm sure you guys will get to get in on it too.
05:26 - I mean, at this point, make history.
05:27 Don't come this far just to go this far.
05:29 - That's true.
05:30 Sit, everybody.
05:31 - I mean, Detroit's hitting on every 17
05:33 they see at this point.
05:34 It's bad.
05:34 It's getting rough out here.
05:36 But the Celtics played team basketball against the Kings.
05:38 It worked out.
05:39 And I think I said this after the Cavs Magic mini series,
05:44 both of them,
05:45 the Celtics have been doing a great job
05:47 of committing to how they're playing on offense,
05:50 but being willing to change up how they're playing defense.
05:52 And I think that's the important part
05:54 'cause I think that's how you have to play as a team.
05:55 'Cause offensively, it's just a matter of
05:58 finding what works consistently
06:01 in terms of getting open shots.
06:02 The shots may not always fall,
06:04 but then you can fix that by adjusting defense
06:07 according to what the other team is doing.
06:08 You look at the Cavs series
06:10 and they picked up screens higher
06:12 and they caught Srews and Mitchell off guard.
06:14 You look at the Magic series,
06:16 they played more physical,
06:17 they clogged the lane,
06:17 they switched it up to guard those guys
06:19 and they bullied some of the Magic players out of the paint
06:21 where they're more comfortable.
06:23 You look at even the Warriors game,
06:25 it obviously didn't work out in their favor,
06:27 but they did adjust later in the game
06:28 to try to deny Curry and Klay Thompson the ball.
06:30 They couldn't do it consistently and that was the problem,
06:33 but they did try to switch it up.
06:34 And then the Kings game,
06:35 Fox took, I think, four shots in the second half.
06:38 They saw him get hot
06:41 and then they did whatever they could
06:42 to shut down the offense and live with guys
06:44 that they wanted to beat them and it worked.
06:46 I think that commitment on offense
06:48 versus adjustments on defense is what's important.
06:51 And as we talk about the Clippers game next up here,
06:53 I think that's all the more important
06:54 with a team that's maybe one of the hottest teams in the league.
06:57 They just lost to the Thunder, but Kawhi wasn't there.
06:59 But when they've been healthy
07:00 prior to this Thunder loss last night,
07:01 as we're recording this, they had won nine in a row.
07:03 This team is really starting to figure it out.
07:05 As much as we can mock James Harden,
07:08 this team probably has as much talent as most teams,
07:10 most contending teams in the league with Kawhi playing
07:12 in an all-time high, Paul George, Cookin, James Harden,
07:16 buying into a playmaking role.
07:18 This is going to be a tough team to slow down.
07:21 But I think the Celtics showed what they need to do
07:24 in the Kings game as a sort of preview
07:27 for the Clippers game.
07:28 - Yeah, and one of the things that I'm hoping carries over
07:32 is that Christophs Porzingis was dominant
07:35 in the third quarter.
07:36 And what they were doing was his screens
07:38 were forcing switches, and then you get him
07:41 in the mid post on namely Kevin Herter,
07:43 and even with Sabonis in this case,
07:45 coming over to constantly double, he's seven foot three.
07:48 It's not going to affect his shot.
07:50 Two of them, three of them,
07:52 they're all munchkins in his eyes.
07:54 And so he's just shooting them over them
07:56 and he's got tremendous touch.
07:58 And so I think that there's a difference
08:02 between the Celtics do consistently create quality shots
08:06 for the most part, but you can still scale up.
08:08 So even if it doesn't mean that the process was poor,
08:13 that against Sacramento, we saw them play a lot
08:15 of inside out basketball.
08:17 And the combination of that and operating up tempo
08:21 is how you generate a higher quality of in rhythm shot
08:25 and keep players involved.
08:26 And that's more conducive to success from beyond the arc,
08:30 which we know that's a high volume
08:32 of where their shots come from.
08:34 So I'm hoping that process in particular,
08:36 that inside out basketball combined with playing up tempo
08:40 and pushing the pace is what we see against the Clippers.
08:43 - Yeah, the inside out stuff seems to be the real way
08:46 the NBA is trending now, whether it's driving kick
08:49 or you really have a dominant big guy like Yoko Jiren Bede.
08:52 It's what teams want to do.
08:53 You want to draw on the defense
08:54 and you get those clean looks from three.
08:56 I got a kick out of the Kevin Herter
08:58 trying to cover Porzingis on the switch.
09:00 It's like he's the Drake meme where Drake's trying to defend.
09:03 I think it's KD and he's just helpless.
09:06 That's pretty much what it was.
09:07 There was a Chris Dobbs shot in the Kings game
09:10 where it was like a Kobe shot
09:11 and there were like literally three guys
09:12 like all like closing in from every angle
09:15 and he sank it just for the spoiler.
09:17 But yeah, with the Clippers,
09:21 I think the Celtics are gonna have an interesting task
09:23 on their hands because they do have
09:26 a bunch of high level guys.
09:29 James Harden, Kawhi, Paul George, all of them.
09:32 Like they can play for real.
09:33 Kawhi has been on a heater from everything I've seen.
09:36 He's been playing really well and like you mentioned Jack,
09:38 he wasn't there for the loss of the Thunder.
09:41 But nonetheless, James Harden has stepped it up
09:44 after a very slow start to his Clippers tenure.
09:48 We all saw the picture of him yelling into the camera
09:51 after an and one three against the Pacers.
09:55 The Celtics have the defensive tools to hang with this team.
09:59 We don't know as of Friday at 2.30
10:02 if Tatum's gonna play tomorrow with the rolled ankle
10:04 he suffered against the Warriors
10:05 or even Porzingis that matter who did roll his ankle
10:08 but then turned up to another level against the Kings.
10:11 But if they have,
10:13 at least everybody not named Porzingis healthy,
10:17 they still should have the defensive tools
10:19 to switch with Derek White, Drew Holiday,
10:21 Jalen Brown, Jason Tatum,
10:23 all of those guys on the perimeter
10:25 and then they'll have one big guy
10:26 to hang down low with Zubac.
10:29 They should be okay,
10:31 but it's gonna be interesting to see
10:32 how they handle the handful of stars
10:34 rather than just one guy like De'Aaron Fox
10:37 or mainly one guy like Steph Curry,
10:39 even though Clay was hot too.
10:40 - Yeah, I mean, over the last 10 games,
10:43 the Clippers are first in offensive rating at 125.2,
10:47 but down at 15th in defensive rating at 116.3.
10:50 And I think the big thing you just pointed out
10:52 is the way the Celtics win this game.
10:55 Zubac is gonna be in drop.
10:56 Porzingis is just gonna shoot all the threes,
11:00 all the threes in the world.
11:01 And even past that,
11:04 if Zubac plays in drop,
11:06 which he's going to,
11:08 'cause if he doesn't, he's cooked,
11:11 he's gonna play in drop.
11:13 Celtics are going to kick it to Porzingis.
11:15 And then if they rotate,
11:16 Porzingis is just capable of making that extra pass.
11:19 And so I think that's how you take down this Clippers team.
11:21 I don't wanna say difficult part,
11:23 but the intriguing part comes
11:25 when and if Tyloo decides to run a small ball lineup
11:29 with no center or PJ Tucker at the center,
11:31 who's been something.
11:34 - Excellent.
11:35 - He's putting up a lot.
11:36 - Might not be long for LA either, it seems like.
11:38 - Yeah, he's putting up Tony Snell numbers.
11:41 What a beast.
11:42 Shout out main Celtics legend, Tony Snell.
11:43 But the issue's not the right word,
11:47 but the intriguing part of Joe Mazzuolo's game plan
11:51 is going to come when inevitably Tyloo goes
11:53 to a small ball lineup that is switch heavy.
11:56 But at that point, I think the Celtics will just find
11:58 the weakest player on the floor defensively and attack them
12:00 because that's what they've done all season.
12:02 And for what it's worth, since I mentioned Joe Mazzuolo,
12:05 Mike Brown giving him the credit he deserved
12:07 after that Kings game, basically saying,
12:08 yeah, he coached circles around me.
12:10 He kicked my bleep, for lack of a better term.
12:15 Joe Mazzuolo's been great this season.
12:17 And then looking past the Clippers game,
12:21 I know it's the biggest game of the year for Sam,
12:23 probably so far.
12:24 - Yeah, it is. - Lakers on Christmas.
12:26 This is a game you really want to win.
12:28 Bobby, what are going to be the biggest keys in this one?
12:29 Because for all the,
12:31 Lakers aren't a great offensive half court team,
12:34 which is still true.
12:36 Anthony Davis is playing great basketball this season.
12:38 LeBron James is playing great basketball this season.
12:39 Like they are going to be a tough team, if nothing else,
12:44 but the fact that they're going to want to win this game.
12:49 - I'm with Sam.
12:49 This is the one that I have circled
12:52 on my regular season calendar that I'm most excited for.
12:55 It's one of the marquee rivalries in sports.
12:58 It's the most significant date
13:01 on the NBA's regular season calendar.
13:03 So I'm very, I'm more excited for this matchup
13:06 in particular, LeBron against the Celtics.
13:08 He always cranks it up.
13:10 We saw how much that loss at TD Garden last year,
13:13 how that felt like just a gut punch to him.
13:17 And so it was a combination of- - How'd you know?
13:19 - What's up? - How'd you know?
13:22 There's the combination of that
13:23 and this game being on Christmas
13:26 and what that means for superstars in particular.
13:29 And one of the areas that I'm most excited to see
13:32 is how the Celtics combat the physicality of the Lakers.
13:35 They have size across the board.
13:38 And when they went on that run
13:39 to win the in-season tournament,
13:40 I know that they haven't had the best of health since then
13:43 and they floundered a little bit,
13:45 but when they were winning that in-season tournament,
13:48 it was led by their defense and just digging in
13:52 and not giving players separation
13:55 and just wearing them down at the other end.
13:57 So it's gonna be very interesting to see
13:59 how the Celtics hold up against that challenge.
14:02 - What you got? There it is. - Well done.
14:04 I saw the smile on Jack's face
14:06 and I knew something was coming.
14:07 - Not a tech.
14:07 - Not a tech. - Tatum waves at the ref.
14:10 Ejected. LeBron.
14:12 - He wouldn't come to the podium after the game.
14:16 He did his post game speaking from his locker.
14:18 He refused. - He's the worst.
14:20 I detest the Lakers. I detest LeBron.
14:23 I detest Anthony Davis and his dad.
14:26 I can give you a reason probably for just about everybody.
14:29 You should be, I should be like, I hate that guy.
14:31 But LeBron, he does stuff like this.
14:34 He's the biggest crybaby guy ever.
14:38 He's always reading the book. He's one page in.
14:42 Anthony Davis and his dad had a tantrum
14:44 when he might get traded to the Celtics back in 2019.
14:47 This is good.
14:49 See, this is creative. - I love this was iconic.
14:51 - Also ripped to Eric Lewis,
14:52 one of the all-time great referees.
14:54 But- (laughing)
14:55 - Celtics legend, Eric Lewis.
14:57 - That's right.
14:59 But Anthony Davis's dad,
15:02 like throwing the Celtics under the bus
15:04 for the Isaiah Thomas thing will not be forgotten.
15:07 And of course the purple and gold out there in LA,
15:09 just that they got some of the worst fans ever too.
15:11 So this is a big one for me, but to Bobby's point,
15:14 the Lakers did win the in-season tournament
15:17 behind great defense, behind great play from Anthony Davis.
15:21 It's interesting to me how the Celtics
15:23 are going to combat Davis's paint presence.
15:26 Of course you want to stretch the floor as much as you can.
15:29 And you do have the pieces to do it.
15:31 But the Celtics have also been very good inside.
15:33 Jason Tatum's field goal percentage as a whole
15:36 has been at an all-time high this year, career high.
15:38 And he can't make any threes.
15:41 Like a tear sheds from my eye
15:42 every time I see him try and shoot a three.
15:45 But that means he's finishing at the rim.
15:47 Kristaps Porzingis, like Bobby said,
15:49 has incredible touch inside.
15:51 These guys are all capable of making the Lakers pay inside.
15:55 I'm curious to see how crazy all of the Celtics fans
16:00 are going to be driven by the amount of threes
16:02 they're probably going to have to take.
16:04 - Yeah, I mean, like I mentioned,
16:07 the Lakers defense last 10 games,
16:09 fifth, 113.0 defensive rating.
16:12 Lakers offense last 10 games, 25th.
16:14 They're not a good offensive team, plain and simple.
16:16 They get out in transition.
16:17 The reason they were able to bully the Pacers
16:20 in the in-season tournament finals
16:21 is 'cause they literally scored like a million points
16:23 in the paint and the Pacers had no answer.
16:26 'Cause spoiler alert, Pacers are a terrible offensive team.
16:29 Celtics aren't that.
16:30 If in knock on wood, Porzingis is healthy.
16:32 They have one of the better paint protectors
16:34 in the league this season, I would argue,
16:36 especially considering the tools he has
16:37 around him to work with.
16:38 It's really just going to be about slowing down
16:40 LeBron James and Anthony Davis,
16:42 who, like I mentioned, are on heaters this season.
16:44 They're playing really well.
16:45 Anthony Davis over his last 10 is averaging 29 on 54,
16:48 42 splits and 13 rebounds a night.
16:51 LeBron is averaging 25, eight, nine and a half.
16:54 Like Reeves is averaging 19 on 50, 40, 94 shooting.
16:59 Like they are playing well.
17:02 Their stars are efficient on offense, but past Reeves,
17:05 you just don't have a lot of floor space
17:07 and you don't have a lot of shooting.
17:08 You don't have a lot of guys who can help space the floor
17:10 for those guys.
17:12 And that's where the Celtics are going to have
17:13 to attack them, right?
17:14 Like look at the Cavs game.
17:16 The second game, they literally just left
17:18 Isaac Okoro in the quarter,
17:19 said we're going to guard Strewston and Mitchell.
17:21 Good luck.
17:22 And the Cavs couldn't do anything.
17:24 That's how they're going to attack the Lakers.
17:25 I guarantee you they put Drew Holiday on Cam Reddish
17:29 or pick your poison, D'Angelo Russell,
17:32 and just say, yeah, go nuts.
17:33 Have a good time.
17:34 We're going to send help in the lane.
17:36 We're going to make it annoying for Davis when he posts up.
17:39 We're not going to let Austin Reeves get into the mid range.
17:41 We're going to survive with these little floaters
17:43 you guys are going to throw up
17:44 and Cam Reddish taking a million threes.
17:47 And that's how they're going to defend the Lakers.
17:48 And whether or not it works is going to depend on
17:50 whether or not Cam Reddish has a career night
17:52 against the Celtics, which maybe you hedge your bets on yes.
17:55 - Yeah, I was going to say like,
17:57 let's play the which Lakers guy is going to make five threes.
18:00 - Yeah, but.
18:03 - Do we know when Gabe Vincent is returning?
18:09 - I mean, that's going to be,
18:10 it's at least supposed to be a significant piece for them
18:13 and give them a dynamic that outside of Austin Reeves,
18:16 they don't really have that someone who can create the shot
18:19 off the dribble and play the pick and roll so well
18:23 as the ball handler, as a guard.
18:26 And he's better in that capacity than Austin Reeves.
18:29 So to me, like if they have Gabe Vincent back
18:32 and he might not have his wind all the way under him,
18:34 but if he's back and shooting the ball well,
18:37 it just changes the geometry of the Lakers offense.
18:41 - It says.
18:42 - Nice PTSD for us too.
18:43 - Darvin Ham's latest update.
18:46 I think Gabe has come a long way.
18:47 He's done everything we've asked him to do.
18:48 Checked every box at this point.
18:49 Everything's going according to plan.
18:51 Just a few more conditioning boxes we need to check
18:53 and see how he responds.
18:54 Then we'll make the call to make him active.
18:57 Basically saying it looks like he'll be back soon enough.
19:00 That said, I don't know if we'll play against Celtics,
19:03 but he played last night.
19:05 He played last night.
19:06 He played against the Bulls on the 20th.
19:08 Two nights ago.
19:09 - Oh he's playing.
19:09 - Yes, he did play.
19:10 - Big impact in that one.
19:12 - I will say, for what it's worth,
19:14 he is currently shooting two of 17 from three this season.
19:20 - Vincent.
19:21 - Saving them all for the Celtics.
19:22 - Well, but he might have played four games.
19:24 He had the ankle injury.
19:26 And then he just came back after a long absence.
19:28 - Yes.
19:29 - You know what, at least last year in Miami,
19:31 what the reputation was.
19:33 - And he's definitely going to bring it against the Celtics.
19:35 All I'm saying is 11% looks very funny
19:38 on basketball reference.
19:40 But listen, I think the Lakers are a good team.
19:44 I think they're a playoff team.
19:46 If the Celtics play the right brand of basketball,
19:49 and they come to play again,
19:51 both of those are question marks.
19:52 I'm not saying they're fully going to happen.
19:55 They're better.
19:56 The Celtics are fully capable
19:57 of handling most teams in the league.
19:59 I would say there's maybe four teams
20:02 that will give them serious trouble on a night-to-night basis
20:04 and it's the Bucs, Nuggets, Sixers, and Timberwolves.
20:07 Outside of that, you should, and maybe the Thunderbirds,
20:09 you should be able to be like,
20:10 "All right, we're more talented than you."
20:12 - But also--
20:13 - There's still the LeBron challenge.
20:14 You're on the road on Christmas for this game.
20:17 Both games last year went to overtime.
20:20 And so this is, you know,
20:21 I think you could put just because of LeBron even,
20:24 that playing him and his teams
20:26 goes into the same category as facing the Warriors
20:30 or the Miami Heat,
20:31 where it's just, it's another one of those mental challenges
20:34 where the Celtics have to prove themselves
20:36 in a different way,
20:37 even if they are the more talented team.
20:39 - Yeah, one good thing about this is it is Christmas.
20:44 So the Celtics should care.
20:45 And I say this seriously,
20:48 in games that the Celtics have cared,
20:51 they have been unstoppable.
20:54 Those two games against Orlando,
20:56 they clearly had a chip on their shoulder
20:58 and they played like it.
21:00 They got beat by the Warriors
21:02 and embarrassed that they lost that game.
21:03 They come out and stomp the Kings the next day.
21:06 If anything, they should be up for this game
21:08 more than any other, I mean, even the Milwaukee game.
21:11 Go back to that.
21:12 They played serious for three and a half quarters
21:14 and it was a blowout.
21:15 They almost lost, but they didn't.
21:17 If they play like that against the Lakers, it should be.
21:21 - All right, yeah. - He had enough.
21:25 He had enough of my rambling.
21:26 - He's out.
21:29 He couldn't handle it.
21:32 - I'm leaving this in 'cause it's funny.
21:33 - Welcome back, good friend of the program, Jack Simone.
21:36 - Yeah.
21:37 - It has like these little buttons here
21:38 and I went to grab it, but I missed.
21:41 And so I hit it and it hit the back button.
21:43 And so I left the room.
21:44 But I'm here, don't worry.
21:47 I'm still talking to you.
21:48 - Wow, I didn't even say anything bad.
21:50 - I just leave.
21:52 Sam, if I left whenever I got mad at something you said,
21:55 there wouldn't be a show.
21:57 - Well, there was one time you did.
21:59 It was like a five minute pause.
22:00 I was like, okay, I'm gonna apologize.
22:01 - In the playoffs last year, right?
22:03 - Yeah, we were both definitely mad that they lost,
22:06 but I was like, my level of mad.
22:08 And I just would not let him say anything positive
22:11 about the team.
22:11 - He said, if you're not gonna let me talk, I'm out.
22:15 - It's not even that you wouldn't let me say
22:16 anything positive.
22:17 I was just in a room with other people, so I couldn't yell.
22:20 And so nothing I said could be heard over you.
22:24 So I was like, dude, if you're not gonna let me talk,
22:26 I'm gonna leave.
22:27 And you're like, well then talk then.
22:29 And I just left.
22:29 And I was like, I'm done.
22:31 I'm like, wait.
22:31 - No, but I'm back.
22:33 - That's a top five moment on the pod.
22:35 - I'm back.
22:36 I cut it.
22:37 I had to cut it out.
22:38 'Cause it wasn't like a quick leave comeback.
22:39 It was like 10 minutes.
22:40 - No, it was like a contest.
22:42 - Oh my God.
22:43 Anyways.
22:44 - Sorry, you had to bleep that.
22:45 - Sam, though, I'm so glad that you brought up
22:47 how they play against the Bucs specifically,
22:50 because that's an example of when the Celtics
22:52 are the hunter.
22:54 And it's just so much easier to be aggressive
22:57 and I think play better when that's your mindset.
23:00 So like the Patriots teams in the early 2000s,
23:03 they used to lie to themselves
23:05 to get themselves in that mindset.
23:07 The Celtics, even if they don't believe it
23:09 or they can't stop thinking about how they're more talented
23:12 than their opposition,
23:14 I think it's what they need to consistently adopt.
23:16 However they can, and if it requires trickery,
23:19 then so be it.
23:20 To consistently be the hunter
23:22 and not act like you're trying to fend some team off.
23:25 - Yeah, I think they really do thrive
23:29 when they're like, "We have something to prove."
23:31 And I love it, because I think in years past,
23:34 we haven't necessarily seen that.
23:36 We have seen them play up to competition in the past
23:39 or down to it.
23:40 But it feels like last year in particular,
23:42 they kind of felt like they were better than everybody.
23:45 And on any given night,
23:47 they could lose to Milwaukee or the Lakers,
23:51 or you saw them go down 0-3 to Miami
23:53 and then they paid for it.
23:54 But they just didn't play for real at times.
23:56 Like the Atlanta series.
23:58 They weren't serious.
23:59 We were all like, "Yeah, they're gonna womp Atlanta."
24:01 It took them six games.
24:02 They almost lost to Philly.
24:03 We're all like, "They should beat Philly every time,
24:05 'cause that's how it goes.
24:06 They almost lose.
24:07 Miami, they go down 0-3."
24:09 This year, it does feel different in that sense.
24:12 You got some new guys,
24:13 like Holiday has a chip on his shoulder,
24:14 even though he won't say it,
24:16 because Milwaukee ditched him for Lillard.
24:18 Chris Stops has never been in a winning situation
24:20 and he couldn't be happier.
24:22 Tatum and Brown have been ridiculed
24:24 for their inability to show up in a pair of big series
24:27 over the last couple of seasons.
24:29 They've all had enough.
24:30 I don't know why Derek White's turned up,
24:32 but he's done that too.
24:33 Is he an all-star now?
24:36 - Yes.
24:37 Segway.
24:38 Thank you, Sam.
24:39 I wrote about it today for Celtics blog.
24:40 I get passionate when I talk about Derek White.
24:45 Derek White might be my favorite thing in basketball.
24:48 I said this in our video.
24:50 I said, "People growing up wanting to get to the NBA
24:55 should want to be like Derek White.
24:57 You shouldn't want to be Jason Tatum.
24:58 You shouldn't want to be all the stars,
25:01 because the likelihood of you being Tatum or Curry
25:04 or Embiid or Jokic is like 2%.
25:07 If you're a top prospect in your class, sure.
25:09 If you are a guy looking to make it,
25:11 looking to separate yourself, play defense,
25:14 shoot well from threes, have a good mindset."
25:17 And all this other stuff that Derek White does,
25:20 driving to the hoop, finishing in the lane,
25:22 morphing his body at the rim, blocking shots,
25:26 that's great.
25:27 He is the perfect NBA player.
25:29 And not only that, as far as his all-star case,
25:33 he is the most impactful player on the best team in the NBA.
25:37 He impacts winning more than Tatum this season,
25:40 more than Brown this season, more than Porzingis this season,
25:42 more than Holiday this season.
25:44 By the numbers, he has the best value
25:47 over replacement player on the Celtics.
25:48 He has the most win shares on the Celtics.
25:50 He has the best plus minus on the Celtics.
25:52 Every stat tells you what the eye test tells you.
25:56 Impact on winning, Derek White is at the top.
25:59 If the best player on the best team
26:02 isn't in the all-star game, what are we doing?
26:04 And realistically, I know all-star game
26:06 is a stat contest, right?
26:08 That's what it is, effectively.
26:09 - It's a popularity contest.
26:10 It's name recognition. - For the most part.
26:13 However, when coaches are voting for the bench,
26:16 if there's anybody that should respect
26:19 what Derek White does, it's them,
26:21 because they have to play him every night.
26:23 I don't think it's likely,
26:25 but Derek White deserves to be an all-star this season.
26:27 I just wrote about it for Celtics blog,
26:28 if you want to read it, I will die on this hill.
26:31 He should be an all-star. - Will you buy
26:32 an all-star jersey if he makes it?
26:33 - If Derek White makes the all-star game, yes, absolutely.
26:36 And not only that, I'll buy a real one.
26:37 I won't buy the one from DHgate from China.
26:40 I'll buy a real all-star Derek White jersey if he makes it.
26:43 He deserves to be an all-star.
26:45 Everything.
26:47 - Porzingis, Pete Rogers jersey's coming.
26:51 You're feeling strong. - There we go.
26:53 - Love that. - That'll be fire.
26:54 Yeah, so Jack is the president of the Derek White fan club,
26:59 to the point that he might take umbrage
27:01 with the following statement here,
27:03 which is, "I believe Derek White
27:05 "has become the best role player in the NBA."
27:09 And I was talking with an NBA scout recently
27:12 who said that he thinks the two best role players
27:15 are Aaron Gordon and Derek White.
27:17 And I told him, "I think that Derek White
27:20 "has surpassed Aaron Gordon in that regard,
27:22 "especially when you consider the impact
27:25 "of Jokic's facilitating
27:26 "as one of the best passers in the game."
27:28 And so I wrote the other day as well
27:31 for Inside the Celtics, si.com/NBA/Celtics,
27:35 shameless plug, about Derek White's all-star candidacy.
27:38 And the conclusion is the same as Jack's,
27:41 that he's playing all-star caliber basketball.
27:44 I don't think he'll get voted in.
27:45 I think being a replacement player is a more likely outcome.
27:49 But there are four players in the NBA right now
27:52 who are in the 94th percentile or higher,
27:55 if you'll allow me to nerd out,
27:57 in estimated offensive and defensive impact,
28:00 and Derek White is one of them,
28:02 along with Joel Embiid, Giannis,
28:04 and Shea Gildas Alexander.
28:06 I'm not saying all four of them
28:07 are on the same tier of overall player,
28:11 but I do think that all four belong in the all-star game,
28:14 even though to reiterate that conclusion, Sam,
28:17 I ultimately think he won't get named
28:19 to the initial roster, at least.
28:22 - No, I mean, you're gonna see the fan vote,
28:24 and it's gonna be like,
28:25 we'll do safe for the sake of it,
28:29 Zach Levine, maybe, that doesn't deserve to be there.
28:32 He's always on the ballot 'cause he can do super cool dunks.
28:35 People know his name.
28:36 Trey Young's another one that's actually more realistic.
28:38 Like a lot of people will vote for Trey Young
28:40 'cause they know him.
28:41 They know him as the next Steph Curry,
28:43 regardless if he is or not.
28:45 He doesn't really shoot that high of an efficiency
28:47 or a percentage from three, at least for his career.
28:51 But I will say this about Derek White
28:53 in the role-player conversation.
28:55 I almost think Derek White is a slight step
28:59 above the average role player,
29:01 or not even the average role player,
29:02 the role player category,
29:05 because I do think there are moments
29:08 where Derek White can spearhead an offense
29:11 and be an initiator and create shots.
29:14 I think we've seen it a few times.
29:16 We see him do a great job at getting downhill
29:19 to throw up his floaters
29:20 that almost always find the bottom of the net.
29:23 And it gives me confidence in his ability to shape-shift
29:27 and be the guy, for example, in a game in Sacramento
29:31 when Jason Tatum's out.
29:33 That's awesome.
29:34 Like, I don't know, of course it's the NBA.
29:37 Of course all of these guys grow up their whole life
29:40 being the best player in every game they play.
29:43 - Not Derek White.
29:44 - Well, it feels like Derek White
29:47 just has that difference about him.
29:51 He's not the average role player.
29:52 He's not Aaron Gordon.
29:54 - I think Derek White has transcended
30:00 the label of role player
30:02 because of what he can do when other players are out.
30:07 Like, I don't think Aaron Gordon could drop 30 and 10
30:13 when Yoakich is out.
30:14 - Just keep in mind that Aaron Gordon
30:16 was asked to be the number one in Orlando.
30:18 - Yes.
30:19 - Not a role that Derek White's had.
30:20 And I'm not saying, they were a playoff team
30:23 with him taking on a job offensively
30:26 that he's not really that well suited for.
30:29 - Yes.
30:30 And I agree that Aaron Gordon
30:31 is one of the best role players.
30:33 I think everything he does on the court
30:35 impacts winning at a very high level.
30:37 And I think he's perfect for that Nuggets team.
30:39 But I think the difference is,
30:42 and I truly believe this,
30:43 I think Derek White could be the number two option
30:46 on a title team.
30:47 I genuinely believe that.
30:49 Like, I think everything he brings to the table,
30:51 you look at the defense,
30:52 you look at his ability to score, play off the ball,
30:55 but also take guys on the ball and create his own shots,
30:58 which he's been doing more this year.
31:00 He's averaging career highs in points, rebounds, assists,
31:02 field goal percentage, three-point percentage,
31:03 win share, like everything, everything is career highs
31:06 in a year where everyone on the Celtics
31:08 was expected to take a step back
31:09 because they added two all-stars.
31:12 You look at his all-star case,
31:13 just to break it down a little bit here.
31:14 I broke it down in the article for Celtics blog.
31:17 I think Dame, Halliburton, Maxey, and Brunson
31:19 are locks for the guard position, right?
31:21 I think they'll get in
31:22 based on what they've done with their teams.
31:24 I think Tatum, Giannis, and Bede
31:25 will probably end up being the starters.
31:27 That leaves for three more secured front court spots,
31:32 Brown, Porzingis, Jimmy Butler, Bam in a bio,
31:35 Paolo, Franz Wagner, Scottie, Siakam, Bridges.
31:39 I think of those, you'll probably see Brown get in.
31:41 One of the Heat guys get in and Paolo get in,
31:44 which leaves Derek White competing for two wildcard spots
31:48 with Trae Young, Donovan Mitchell, Demar DeRozan,
31:50 and then the rest of those forwards I just named.
31:53 Of those, I think Donovan Mitchell probably gets in
31:55 'cause the Cavs are turning around
31:56 and he is, I mean, by name alone, gonna get it.
31:59 Past that, I think they're quite,
32:01 it impacts winning more than anybody else on that list,
32:03 by a mile.
32:04 I think it impacts winning more than
32:05 Donovan Mitchell this season.
32:06 And I know it's not the same role.
32:08 And I mean, using Trae Young as the example,
32:10 Bobby and I were talking about this off air
32:12 before we hit the record button.
32:13 I think if you put Derek White on the Hawks
32:15 instead of Trae Young, they win more games.
32:16 I think they're a better basketball team
32:17 with Derek White over Trae Young.
32:19 I think Derek White's a better basketball player
32:20 than Trae Young this season.
32:21 I think he's a better, like,
32:23 obviously you could say recency bias.
32:26 I would like to think I don't have that much recency bias.
32:28 I've been on the train for a while here, come on.
32:31 But everything he does on the court,
32:32 you look at the defense, you look at the offense,
32:34 you look at the efficiency shooting and the efficiency,
32:37 all I'm gonna say is the efficiency has stood up
32:39 when star players are out.
32:40 When he's stepped up into a larger role
32:42 and he's had to take more shots,
32:43 it's not like his efficiency is down
32:45 or he turns the ball over more.
32:46 Like he is steady, regardless of the role he's in.
32:49 I truly believe he deserves to be
32:53 on the first all-star returns that come out.
32:55 Like, I think he impacts winning more
32:58 than most of the guys on that list that I mentioned.
33:01 And that should be what it's about.
33:03 - He does.
33:03 Now it is, I can't stress enough,
33:05 it's a different beast when you're the number one option.
33:08 And even if you're Donovan Mitchell, for instance,
33:10 when you have Darius Garland,
33:12 it's still just different when you are the primary focus
33:16 of what the defense is trying to combat and quiet
33:21 every night throughout the course of the game
33:23 when you're on the floor, that you're the guy.
33:26 But yeah, like I think it's fair
33:28 if you wanna go beyond the general categories
33:31 of star role player on down the line,
33:34 that you could say there's an in-between
33:36 that more accurately slots Derek White.
33:38 That's totally fair.
33:39 But again, if you're just using those labels,
33:42 then I think Derek White has established himself
33:45 as the best role player in basketball today.
33:48 And I don't think that's a bias or anything.
33:50 I think we're trotted out the numbers,
33:52 including career highs for him
33:54 in pretty much every major statistical category,
33:57 how well he's shooting the ball
33:58 and his ability to fit in alongside any type of environment.
34:03 It doesn't matter the system,
34:06 who the stars are on that team,
34:08 Derek White can seamlessly blend in
34:11 and elevate that team to the point where you talk about,
34:14 hey, could he go as high as the number two on a title team?
34:17 And I think there are certain examples
34:20 where the answer is yes,
34:21 especially if it's alongside a big man
34:24 like in Embiid or Jokic, I think Giannis too.
34:28 And we're gonna find out,
34:29 'cause right now he's on a team
34:31 that is over the second apron
34:33 and is widely considered to have
34:34 the best top six in basketball.
34:36 And so we're gonna see if he can help this group
34:38 capture banner 18 when they're pot committed.
34:41 - They'd better do it.
34:45 - Listen, we don't have to do this activity now,
34:48 but I think it would be fun to go down the line of,
34:51 is Derek White better than this player?
34:53 And you just have me answer,
34:54 because I would give you some obscenities.
34:56 It would be-
34:57 - I think we should absolutely do this.
34:59 Shout out to JJ Redick for moving Derek White
35:02 even further up within his top 50 now.
35:05 And I mean, maybe we'll have him on for this activity too.
35:08 I just think there's a huge difference,
35:10 because if the question is, would you rather have?
35:14 That list to me is longer
35:16 even than do you think Derek White's better than?
35:19 Unless you're Jack Simone perhaps.
35:21 Maybe they're of equal length.
35:22 - Hey, I would give you some obscene answers.
35:26 - That's why we have to do this at some point.
35:28 - I would be realistic, but we can definitely do that.
35:31 Maybe not today, 'cause we're running a little long anyway.
35:33 So we'll get you all out of here in the meantime.
35:36 But anyways, Bobby, anything else you want to talk about?
35:39 - I think we hit on it all.
35:41 There was one point that I left on the table there
35:44 against the Clippers.
35:46 And that is that, we talked even a little bit
35:49 about when they played the Cavs recently.
35:51 And one of the things that I wrote about
35:53 and was a big takeaway is how they defended Cleveland
35:56 and Porzingis' willingness.
35:58 It wasn't the first time, but just a reminder
36:01 that he doesn't have to play drop coverage
36:03 and you can put them at different levels against the screen.
36:06 Cleveland, I don't have the numbers in front of me,
36:09 but Mitchell and Garland are generally speaking
36:12 more likely to come off a pick and pull from three
36:15 than Kawhi and Paul George who love the mid range.
36:18 So that allows Porzingis to not even have to go
36:20 all the way up to touch.
36:22 He can have a little bit of an in-between there
36:25 and find that middle ground defending the pick and roll
36:27 compared to being all the way at the rim
36:29 versus up at the arc.
36:30 And it's gonna be really interesting
36:32 'cause I think that is going to help him out.
36:34 He said after that Cleveland series
36:36 that he's more comfortable playing up
36:38 and further away from the basket
36:40 and it helps him to just get his hands on guys
36:43 and it feels more natural to him
36:45 than being all the way back at the basket
36:47 waiting for the action to come to him.
36:49 So I think you're gonna see a lot of that
36:51 against the Clippers.
36:52 - Definitely, definitely.
36:55 Sam, any final points before we get out of here?
36:58 - Win 'em all, win all the games.
37:00 By the time you hear us again,
37:02 they had better be riding into the Pistons game
37:06 with a what, three game win streak?
37:08 - How will you react if they sweep the rest of this trip
37:11 and then lose to the Pistons?
37:12 - So, it's a good question.
37:16 - Sam's Pistons, by the way, Bobby.
37:17 I don't know if you knew that.
37:18 Sam had the Pistons as the nine seed.
37:20 - I do support the Pistons.
37:22 I wouldn't call myself a fan.
37:24 - They're your Pistons.
37:25 - They're my team that I'm like the leagues better
37:27 when they're good.
37:29 So I wanna see them succeed.
37:30 - Scorching hot take.
37:32 They need the Detroit market.
37:34 - It's not about the market.
37:36 It's just like I think their franchise is respectable.
37:37 - It's a legendary franchise for sure.
37:39 But I don't know if anyone else is trotting out that take.
37:42 - No, definitely not.
37:43 They're not.
37:45 But back to your question.
37:47 So the Lakers game means a lot to me.
37:50 I think I would-- - Really?
37:53 - I think I would sacrifice the Pistons game
37:56 in exchange to beat the Lakers.
37:59 But I'd like to have both.
38:01 - Well, you want 82 and 0.
38:04 - Well, it's off the table.
38:07 So at this point, I'm looking for 76 and six.
38:09 - All right, well, we'll leave you all on that.
38:14 Contemplate that request from Sam.
38:16 You knew it was happening before the start of the season.
38:19 Thank y'all for tuning in.
38:20 Make sure to follow Bobby's work @SISCELTICS,
38:24 S.I. Media Group, Bobby Kravitzky.
38:26 Subscribe to Hobbithub and Celtics
38:28 and I'll let Sam take it out.
38:29 - Yes, big thanks to Bobby for joining us again
38:31 for Talkin' Cs.
38:32 Make sure you check him out.
38:34 Inside the Celtics for S.I. Media,
38:36 Bobby is on the beat with Jack.
38:38 They're both at the games all the time asking questions,
38:41 observing from the ninth floor and taking notes.
38:44 So make sure you follow him on Twitter too, @BobbyKravitzky.
38:47 He's fantastic.
38:48 He's got all the updates for you there.
38:50 As for Jack and I, if you like the videos,
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39:45 That's it for us.
39:46 See you another time.
39:47 (upbeat music)
39:50 - Tacos.
39:51 - Tacos.
39:52 - Tacos having some fun here.
39:54 - He is bogus!
39:55 These guys are ridiculous!
40:01 These guys are ridiculous!
40:03 Killers!
40:05 (upbeat music)