Forbes Senior Editor Alex Konrad sits down with Sophie Cairns of TrueBridge Capital to look at some of the key takeaways of the 2023 Midas List Europe.
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00:00 (upbeat music)
00:03 - Hi everyone, I'm Alex Conrad, a Senior Editor at Forbes
00:05 and the co-creator of the Midas List Europe.
00:07 It's my pleasure to have with us Sophie Cairns
00:09 from Truebridge Capital Partners,
00:10 our long-time partner on the Midas List.
00:12 Sophie, thank you so much for joining us
00:13 to talk about the Midas List Europe.
00:15 - Thank you for having me.
00:16 And from Truebridge, I think we're super excited
00:20 for the list this year, as we are always,
00:22 and always to work with Forbes.
00:24 It's an incredible opportunity.
00:27 - What has been the biggest highlight
00:28 or the top person on the list that stood out to you?
00:31 - Certainly, so when thinking about
00:34 how this year's list came together,
00:36 one thing that we noticed that there were a few newcomers.
00:39 So one which stood out was Eileen Burbridge
00:42 from Passion Capital.
00:44 She ranked at 15 this year with companies
00:46 such as Monzo and Butterbox.
00:49 And another exemplary newcomer was Gili Renan
00:53 from Cyberstarts, driven by great company Wiz.
00:57 And then, and not a newcomer,
01:00 but someone who did jump up the ranks a lot,
01:02 over 10 places, was Gil Dimpler from Angular Ventures.
01:06 - That's awesome.
01:07 And could you tell us a little bit
01:08 about who's number one this year?
01:10 - Of course.
01:11 So this year, our number one was the very impressive
01:14 Avi Eyal from Entree Capital.
01:17 And when we think about his different deal drivers,
01:22 it was interesting to note that many of his companies,
01:26 he had over two scores of qualifying companies,
01:29 many of them were European.
01:30 - Is that not common, that often you have
01:34 European investors on the list
01:35 who have American companies still driving their placement?
01:38 - So I think when we think about Venture Capital
01:43 and how the global Midas list
01:45 and maybe the past European Midas list has been shaped,
01:48 we think of often, is this concentration
01:51 of tech innovation happening in Silicon Valley.
01:54 But I suppose what we're seeing now
01:57 is more distribution of these companies,
02:00 these really high-performing companies.
02:02 So I think out of the top 20 drivers of the list this year,
02:07 there were six European companies,
02:09 such as monday.com, for example,
02:11 which is one that Avi's invested in.
02:13 - Besides Avi Eyal being number one on this year's list,
02:16 what were some other highlights that stood out to you
02:18 that were maybe different about the 2023 list?
02:20 - So I think we'd have to acknowledge
02:24 that the environment is quite different this year
02:26 than it might have been in previous years.
02:29 So when creating the list, that did have an impact.
02:31 So what I'm referring to is really
02:33 an absence of exit activity,
02:35 which is a really big aspect
02:38 that the list and the algorithm is dictated by.
02:41 - And for the audience, a lack of exits,
02:43 that means they're not making money back
02:45 for their investors through IPOs or big acquisitions,
02:49 is that right?
02:50 - I think certainly when we look at
02:53 how the rankings have been defined,
02:56 IPOs are a really big consideration.
02:58 We really do focus on exit activity
03:00 because we see it as the proven results
03:03 rather than just book value.
03:05 But this year, with more of an absence of IPOs than exits,
03:10 and we have, I suppose, a lot more influence then
03:14 of private companies or potentially older IPOs,
03:18 and which aren't directly from 2023,
03:23 but are still showing signs
03:25 of very good investment judgment.
03:27 So it's shaped slightly differently
03:31 to years where there would have been a flurry
03:33 of IPO activity, but at the same time,
03:36 we're just getting a slightly different flavor
03:38 of investor then, potentially.
03:40 - How do Forbes and Truebridge work on this kind of list
03:44 when maybe there isn't a ton of new activity
03:47 from a deal standpoint?
03:49 Does that put any different focus in place,
03:53 or how does your team kind of approach the list
03:56 in a year like that, that maybe is not as easy
03:59 as one where suddenly a huge IPO just puts
04:02 a ton of new people on the list?
04:04 - That's a really great question.
04:08 And a huge part of the Midas list
04:12 is the integrity behind it.
04:15 So even though the environment is slightly different
04:18 this year, the process actually does stand
04:21 by the same framework that it would have used
04:23 in previous years.
04:24 So that process really has three phases.
04:27 Firstly, we have data validation piece,
04:30 which is incredibly important.
04:32 And then we build the Midas model for the data analysis.
04:37 And then the last thing we have is this independent panel.
04:41 So that process didn't change.
04:44 And when thinking about the algorithm as well,
04:47 it actually didn't go through an intense amount
04:49 of evolution for this year.
04:52 We still wanted to credit those who have made
04:57 successful investments that have been realized,
04:59 and also more recent investments as well.
05:01 So that probably means that the list
05:05 maybe wouldn't move as entirely dramatically
05:11 as a year, some of the previous years,
05:14 but it's still showing kind of rising trends
05:18 coming up through successful companies in the tech space.
05:22 - Was it a challenge that there weren't these kind of IPOs?
05:26 Or if not, was there a bigger challenge
05:29 that you all had to deal with here?
05:31 - This was something that we were aware of
05:34 going into the process this year,
05:35 and as submissions were coming in,
05:37 and it was certainly top of mind.
05:39 And it was considered then at all phases,
05:42 through the data validation, through creating the model,
05:46 although we did stay true to the philosophy
05:49 and principles that we had with the model
05:51 to reward recent exit activity.
05:53 And certainly with the panel discussion as well,
05:57 we are able to have that extra element of validation.
06:02 So validation was extremely important this year.
06:06 - Because ultimately the Midas list is fully data-driven.
06:09 It's not so much a buzz score or a heat check
06:12 where it's like, oh, this person's getting a lot
06:15 of discussion or is doing well on Twitter.
06:18 It's ultimately about their financial returns, right?
06:21 - Yeah, funnily enough, the model has absolutely
06:24 no Twitter element or field in it at all.
06:28 - Imagine.
06:28 - Imagine the algorithm is completely absent of it.
06:31 - Wow, it's dispassionate based on data, who knew?
06:34 - And in fact, that kind of can shape up the rankings
06:38 in a way where you see potentially companies
06:41 and names that mightn't be as familiar
06:44 to the general public, but are investors
06:48 that have incredible performance.
06:50 And when we look at the data and the numbers,
06:52 it really does add up.
06:53 - And some of these names may not be household names,
06:56 even for people who follow tech.
06:57 Like you mentioned Eileen Burbridge,
07:00 who's a newcomer on the list, great woman investor,
07:03 but maybe not from one of those huge firms
07:06 like a Sequoia or an Index that maybe is best known
07:09 at least within London, right?
07:11 - You know, you mentioned the firms in London,
07:14 and when we think of venture capital in the US,
07:17 maybe the global Midas list, we think of that concentration
07:20 in Silicon Valley, and in Europe, one's mind might go
07:24 to the concentration in London.
07:27 But when we were putting together the list
07:30 and you're seeing the output of the algorithm,
07:33 we did notice that there is a little bit more
07:35 of a geographic distribution.
07:37 So you have investors in London,
07:38 but also, you know, 0.9 in Germany,
07:41 and we have companies doing really well in Israel
07:46 and investors in Sweden, in the Middle East.
07:49 So there is a little bit more
07:50 of a geographic distribution there.
07:53 - Is London still kind of the Silicon Valley equivalent
07:55 though, where maybe it's the highest concentration
07:58 of investors?
08:00 - I think that would be a fair statement to make
08:03 that we do see, if we were to pick out a spot
08:06 as the greatest concentration of top-ranked investors,
08:09 it's London, but it's interesting to see
08:12 where the trend is skewing or moving.
08:14 - Do we have any investors from a place like France
08:17 on the list this year?
08:17 I hear about the Paris startup community,
08:20 but I don't know if any investors actually live in Paris.
08:24 - So we do have Philippe from Excel,
08:26 who is based in London, but is a French investor.
08:31 - Okay, so still based in London.
08:32 - Yeah, so we do see that, if we were to just think
08:36 of where people are based versus where they might be from,
08:40 then perhaps there's a little bit less distribution,
08:43 as I already said, even considering
08:45 that there are people becoming based
08:47 in more spread out locations across Europe
08:50 who are having very influential returns,
08:52 which I think does show the growth
08:56 and the evolution of the space.
08:58 - Well, Sophie, you're Irish, you lived in London,
09:00 now you live in North Carolina.
09:01 Do you think any of these investors who aren't British,
09:04 but moved to London, do you think they would ever go back
09:07 to their home countries to be based,
09:08 or do you think London stays that concentration?
09:11 - That is a good question, and yeah,
09:16 being Irish and away from home is not that original
09:21 of a situation, but I think that it certainly opens up,
09:30 and maybe an advantage in deal flow,
09:34 with connections back to different spaces,
09:37 and we do see tech really being a focus
09:40 in different countries as an area of development,
09:43 and a lot of governments taking great initiatives
09:45 about that, and also in the private space as well.
09:48 So I wouldn't rule it out.
09:52 I know in Ireland it's a big thing,
09:54 we have our love of tech and innovation.
09:58 - What is it, Silicon Docks or something
10:00 is the place in Dublin?
10:02 - You're not too far off there, yeah.
10:04 We have a lot of our beloved Strife, et cetera.
10:07 - Yeah, and to lean into the fact that you are
10:10 our native Irish Midas Europe participant here,
10:15 you probably know some of these companies
10:18 a little bit better than we might here in the US.
10:22 Could you maybe tell me one or two companies
10:24 that you saw were helping people make the list
10:27 that maybe aren't as familiar to a US audience at least,
10:29 but that you and your friends,
10:31 maybe when you were living in London or in Ireland
10:33 would be like, yeah, I know that brand.
10:35 - Certainly, and this came up in discussions
10:38 of people like, oh, look at this company,
10:40 it's so impressive, I've never heard of it,
10:42 and I have all these flashbacks to being like,
10:44 well, I know many, many people with Monzo accounts
10:47 or who have used companies like Otreum or Back Market,
10:52 or even wonderful companies like Dr. Lib in France
10:56 doing telemedicine.
10:58 So there is certainly another level of familiarity
11:02 I'd have with some of these companies,
11:04 and of course, not to leave out Stripe,
11:07 which is certainly a household name back home
11:10 and beloved of the many, many small businesses
11:13 that are in Europe and in Ireland.
11:17 And yeah, certainly, so I think that added
11:21 an interesting element to the conversation
11:24 around these companies then and the analysis,
11:27 certainly for me.
11:28 - Were these companies driving the list?
11:31 Did you see any sectors that were standing out
11:33 like FinTech or security or something like that?
11:36 - So that is another great question,
11:42 and it's funny in 2023, when you think of one sector
11:47 or one particular trend,
11:49 one's mind really does jump to generative AI.
11:52 But when we look at the Midas list,
11:54 the Midas list Europe this year,
11:57 we see that really that isn't quite yet at the stage
12:01 where it's shaping the rankings.
12:04 And instead, we see some areas
12:06 that would have been in the media typically more
12:09 a few years ago, really now converting high potential
12:14 kind of trends and ideas and spaces
12:16 into really performing enterprises.
12:18 And one that stands out is cybersecurity.
12:22 So someone who came onto the list this year
12:25 is Gili Rolan from CyberStarts
12:28 with a great cybersecurity company,
12:30 Wiz being a driver there.
12:31 - Another Israeli investor.
12:32 - Yes, another Israeli.
12:33 And then as well, another Israeli investor
12:37 is Gil Dibner who has many cybersecurity investments.
12:42 So--
12:44 - That seems to be a theme.
12:45 I wrote a cover story about Wiz this summer
12:47 and got to go to Tel Aviv.
12:49 And certainly it feels like Israeli cybersecurity companies
12:53 punch way above their weight.
12:54 And so it's no surprise to me to hear
12:56 that the investors coming from Israel
12:58 tend to have some of these companies in their portfolio.
13:02 - Certainly, it's definitely an area of expertise
13:05 in the region.
13:06 And we see that then coming through
13:08 with the performance in the global market.
13:11 - So one thing I know Forbes and TrueBridge
13:12 have paid close attention to over the years
13:14 is the diversity of the list,
13:16 the room for improvement there.
13:18 Looking at this year's list,
13:19 what's your take on sort of where things stand
13:21 from that standpoint?
13:22 - So thinking of the rankings this year,
13:27 of the top 25, we have four women.
13:31 We also have a new woman on the list,
13:33 Eileen Burbridge, who hasn't been on the top 25 before.
13:36 And this is something that we think
13:41 there's a lot of work still to be done.
13:43 - Well, Sophie, thank you so much for coming
13:45 and talking about the Midas list.
13:46 We look forward to see how things change in future years.
13:50 - Thank you so much.
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