The Scotsman Politics - Michael Matheson iPad speech
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00:00 (upbeat music)
00:02 - Welcome to the Scotsman's Politics Show.
00:10 We're here to recap First Minister's questions.
00:13 I'm Dale Miller, I'm Head of News at the Scotsman
00:15 and I'm joined by our political editor,
00:18 Alistair Grant, live from Hollywood.
00:21 Alistair, it was all about Michael Matheson today
00:24 and that was the way Humsdale was attacked.
00:28 - Yeah, so as expected, it was all about Michael Matheson
00:31 and his 11,000 pound data roaming bill
00:35 that he managed to rack up on his parliamentary iPad
00:37 during a holiday to Morocco over the new year period,
00:40 just last year, slash the beginning of this year.
00:44 And so it's a kind of story that's been going on
00:46 for days now.
00:48 And at the end of last week, Michael Matheson,
00:50 who is of course the Health Secretary,
00:52 had agreed to pay back that full amount
00:55 after coming under a lot of pressure.
00:57 And there's a lot of stories in the media about this.
00:59 He was getting asked a lot of questions from journalists.
01:01 There's also a lot of pressure from opposition parties,
01:03 from the Conservatives and from Labour.
01:05 And he was originally insisting
01:09 that basically he would only pay,
01:10 I think, 3,000 pounds of this bill
01:12 out of his parliamentary expenses
01:14 and the rest would be paid by the Scottish Parliament itself.
01:17 But of course, this is all taxpayers' money.
01:19 So that's where some of the kind of interest was coming
01:22 when it comes to this story.
01:24 And he was also insisting,
01:25 he's actually provided written assurances
01:27 to the Scottish Parliament
01:28 that this bill was incurred doing parliamentary work.
01:30 So it was all related to parliamentary business.
01:33 It wasn't personal use of his iPad.
01:35 So while on holiday, he was doing parliamentary business
01:38 and he hadn't updated a SIM card within his iPad
01:41 as he was told to do by the Parliament.
01:43 He never got around to doing that apparently.
01:45 And that's where this huge data roaming charge
01:47 had been incurred.
01:49 And yesterday on a Wednesday,
01:52 we had the bill breakdown being published
01:54 by the Scottish Parliament
01:55 as a result of some of this media interest.
01:58 And it had shown that,
02:00 I think, between upwards of 7,000 pounds of that bill
02:03 was incurred on one day alone on January the 2nd,
02:06 which was obviously a public holiday in Scotland.
02:09 There's a lot of questions
02:10 about what Michael Matheson was doing on that day
02:12 to incur such a huge data fee.
02:15 Opposition politicians, very quick to point out
02:18 that it was the day of an old firm game
02:20 and asking questions about whether he or a family member
02:23 was in fact watching football on that iPad.
02:26 And I think it's important to remember
02:28 that Michael Matheson has repeatedly said
02:30 that there was no personal use on this iPad.
02:33 I actually asked him about it on Monday
02:35 during a visit that he was making
02:37 to the NHS Review in NHS Glasgow.
02:41 And he'd said then that there was no personal use
02:43 on the iPad.
02:44 And as I said earlier,
02:45 he provided written assurances to the Parliament.
02:47 But now at FMQs today,
02:49 we heard hundreds of users say that more information
02:52 seems to have come to light and that it was an honest mistake.
02:55 We're not quite clear what has happened.
02:58 There's a statement coming from Michael Matheson.
02:59 You can watch that later on after this video.
03:04 But I think the expectation is
03:06 that there's more information to come on this.
03:08 And I think the questions won't go away.
03:11 Hunter Youssef was doorstepped by journalists
03:13 after First Minister's questions,
03:14 just behind me, just up the stairs
03:16 outside of the Scottish Parliament's chamber.
03:18 And was saying that Michael Matheson would remain
03:19 the Health Secretary by the end of today.
03:21 There's obviously been speculation
03:22 about whether he would resign
03:23 or whether Humza Youssef would be forced to sack him.
03:26 And Humza Youssef seems to be quite clear
03:28 that Michael Matheson isn't going anywhere.
03:31 And of course, it remains to be seen
03:32 whether that position will hold.
03:34 - Alistair, I thought there was an interesting point
03:37 made by Douglas Ross.
03:39 He said Humza Youssef had defended him
03:42 from when this row first emerged a week ago.
03:45 And Douglas was saying,
03:47 your credibility is now on the line, Humza,
03:49 and whether or not you're going to be the Secretary
03:52 of State, or whether or not you're going to be the Secretary
03:55 of State, or whether or not you're going to be the Secretary
03:57 of the Treasury, or whether or not you're going to be
03:59 the Secretary of the Treasury,
04:00 or whether or not you're going to be the Secretary
04:02 of the Treasury, or whether or not you're going to be
04:04 the Secretary of the Treasury,
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09:57 or whether or not you're going to be the Secretary of the Treasury,
09:59 or whether or not you're going to be the Secretary of the Treasury,
10:01 or whether or not you're going to be the Secretary of the Treasury,
10:03 or whether or not you're going to be the Secretary of the Treasury,
10:05 or whether or not you're going to be the Secretary of the Treasury,
10:07 or whether or not you're going to be the Secretary of the Treasury,
10:09 or whether or not you're going to be the Secretary of the Treasury,
10:11 or whether or not you're going to be the Secretary of the Treasury,
10:13 or whether or not you're going to be the Secretary of the Treasury,
10:15 or whether or not you're going to be the Secretary of the Treasury,
10:17 I thought it appropriate to make a contribution through office allowances of £3,000 towards the cost.
10:25 Following the publication of my expenses last week,
10:29 there was significant media coverage of the charges.
10:33 It is at this point, last Thursday night, when I returned home,
10:40 that I was made aware by my wife that other members of her family
10:45 had made use of the iPad data.
10:48 This was the first I knew that the data had been used by anyone else.
10:54 I had previously checked this, but the truth only emerged after the story was in the news.
11:04 I should have pressed harder.
11:06 Perhaps I should have been less willing to believe what I had been told.
11:11 I need to be very clear with you and colleagues today.
11:16 The responsibility for the iPad is mine.
11:20 The responsibility for the data usage is mine.
11:24 That is why my wife and I made the immediate decision to reimburse the Parliament the full costs.
11:31 I contacted parliamentary authorities the next day.
11:35 I contacted parliamentary authorities the next day to make clear arrangements
11:47 to reimburse the full costs of the roaming charges
11:50 and to issue a personal statement to explain the decision.
11:54 In my statement, which was issued last Friday,
11:57 I made no reference to the use of data by my family.
12:02 As a parent, I wanted to protect my family from being part of the political and media scrutiny associated with this,
12:13 which is something I believe any parent would want to do.
12:18 I am a father first and foremost.
12:27 I can see now that it is just not possible to explain the data usage without explaining their role.
12:34 The simple truth is that they were watching football matches.
12:40 On Tuesday, I told the First Minister that members of my family had made use of the iPad data
12:46 and yesterday evening I provided him with a full account of the matter and of my intention to inform Parliament.
12:55 Disclosing this information about my family has been extremely difficult.
13:02 Mistakes have been made by me and by my family,
13:06 and mistakes have been made in the way in which I have handled this.
13:10 I should have sorted the SIM card.
13:13 I should have investigated what happened more thoroughly.
13:16 I accept that, take responsibility and I apologise unreservedly.
13:22 That is why the costs have now been fully reimbursed to Parliament.
13:27 That is why I have referred to the Scottish Parliament corporate body under section 7 of the MSP code of conduct
13:36 so that it can consider whether to investigate the matter further
13:39 to address any remaining questions to this Parliament's full satisfaction.
13:45 I take very seriously the reputation of the Scottish Parliament,
13:50 of which I have always striven to be a diligent member since its restoration in 1990.
13:57 My wish is that I can now focus fully on the vital duties that I have as MSP for Falkirk West and as Health Secretary.
14:07 I hope members will accept my explanation, my self-referral under the code of conduct and my unreserved apology.
14:18 Thank you. Given the decision of the Parliament to suspend rule 13.1.4,
14:24 I will allow a period of around 10 minutes for questions.
14:28 I would be grateful if any members who wish to put a question were to press their request to speak buttons now.
14:34 I call Douglas Ross.
14:39 I'm grateful, Presiding Officer, and to Michael Matheson for the personal statement he has just provided.
14:44 I can fully see the difficulty it has caused him.
14:48 However, questions remain.
14:51 During that statement, Michael Matheson said he could not understand how he had racked up so much data-roaming charges.
14:59 He went on to say he could not explain the data usage.
15:04 But, of course, he did explain the data usage.
15:08 He told this Parliament, when he claimed for expenses, that it was a legitimate expense.
15:15 He promised the Parliament it was a legitimate expense.
15:20 He gave this Parliament written assurances it was a legitimate expense.
15:27 If it has now transpired that his son was watching football, why did he claim he was doing parliamentary work?
15:37 Can he say, if he could not understand at the time or could not explain the data usage,
15:43 how he could 100 per cent say to the Parliament, when claiming £11,000 of taxpayers' money, that he was doing parliamentary work?
15:53 The two stories do not align.
15:57 It does seem that Parliament was misled to make that claim.
16:03 Does Michael Matheson agree with that?
16:07 He also said in his statement that he looked for £3,000 to be taken out of his office cost allowance.
16:16 Was that his only request, or did he seek more money and more support out of available budgets?
16:23 He said he made the immediate decision on hearing from his wife to repay the money.
16:30 In his statement to the media and the Scottish public, he said that was a direct consequence of using an outdated SIM.
16:40 Did he mislead the Scottish people by using that argument, rather than what we now know to be the case?
16:49 The Health Secretary has belatedly been forced to be honest about the circumstances.
16:55 But what we cannot ignore and we cannot forget is that months ago, he wanted the Scottish taxpayer to pay £11,000 for his roaming bill.
17:07 That roaming bill was accrued not due to parliamentary duties, which he claimed, and therefore he falsely claimed that money.
17:17 Will the Health Secretary accept that?
17:21 In my statement, I was clear that, at the time when I was notified of the high charges associated with my iPad,
17:34 the Parliament's IT department contacted the network provider to try to find out more details about how the costs had been associated with my iPad.
17:46 Unfortunately, the network provider was unable to provide that information to the Parliament.
17:53 Therefore, we were unable to identify how the costs of the roaming charges associated with my iPad had been accrued.
18:04 At that time, I passed my iPad to the IT department to consider whether there was an issue with it and for it to look at the device.
18:16 I also made a contribution of £3,000 towards the costs in order to help to meet the costs associated with the Parliament's IT department.
18:28 I volunteered to make that contribution to the Parliament directly.
18:34 The member referred to my statement last Friday, but I made no reference to the fact that data usage had occurred through members of my family.
18:46 As I set out in my statement, this has been a very challenging and emotional time for my family.
18:56 I chose not to provide details of that in my statement on Friday because it would implicate my children in this issue.
19:08 I chose not to provide that information in order to try to protect them from the inevitable media scrutiny and political interest that that would generate.
19:18 I did that as a father to protect them.
19:23 I thank Michael Matheson for his personal statement.
19:30 I think that anyone who has had teenage children will understand what has happened, but what people will not understand is the cover-up.
19:39 This has only had the effect of heightening the media scrutiny, which, understandably, he did not want for his family.
19:46 I regret to say that the failure to replace the SIM card, despite reminders over several years, is wholly negligent.
19:54 I regret that the failure to keep the iPad secure is equally negligent.
19:59 I regret that, on repeated occasions, he assured this Parliament and made statements in the press that were wholly incorrect.
20:08 There is a serious question of judgment here, but while he was focused on this mess of his own making,
20:15 accident and emergency waiting times had gone up this year to the highest level, NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde were named as suspects in a corporate homicide case,
20:27 and 820,000 patients are waiting too long on NHS waiting lists for treatment.
20:36 Does he not believe that, as a result of that serious question of judgment,
20:41 people will understandably have lost confidence in his ability to do his job as the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care?
20:49 I have to ask why he did not investigate the use of data when it was raised with him consistently by parliamentary authorities.
20:58 Why is it only now that he asked his family what actually happened?
21:03 I wholly accept that the data usage and the costs associated with that are my responsibility.
21:13 That is why, last Thursday, we as a family made a decision to reimburse the Parliament for the full costs associated with that.
21:23 My use of the iPad when I was on holiday was purely for constituency and parliamentary purposes,
21:29 and that was my understanding of all that had happened with the iPad when it travelled with us.
21:35 Clearly, things have changed as a result of the information that I now have.
21:40 I ask the Member to be very clear.
21:43 I asked, and IT sought to try to get further details from the network operator on exactly what the iPad had accrued the charges for,
21:53 and the network operator was unable to provide that information.
21:57 I also discussed the matter with my family and received assurances at that time.
22:03 Had I known that my family had made use of the data at that time, I would have met the costs associated with that,
22:10 but I did not know that, which is why, at that time, I could not understand how the costs had been accrued.
22:18 When it became apparent that we had accrued the costs as a result of actions within my family,
22:24 we took the immediate decision to reimburse the full amount to the Parliament.
22:29 I hope that the Member will take my reassurance that, as soon as that became apparent to us,
22:33 the Weiser family decided to ensure that Parliament was reimbursed for the full costs associated with it.
22:39 I welcome the Member's statement and ask whether he is engaged with the Parliament
22:46 on data capping on parliamentary devices in the future.
22:52 I am aware that the Parliament is undertaking a review of the existing arrangements that it has in place.
22:59 In my own painful experience of this, I am more than happy to engage with the Parliament
23:05 to offer it any assistance that I can from my experience
23:09 to ensure that no other member experiences this type of difficulty at some point in the future.
23:21 For a family member to access the Cabinet Secretary's iPad, passwords would need to be shared.
23:28 Can the Cabinet Secretary confirm whether he has shared his device's passwords with anyone?
23:34 Does he accept that this goes against GDPR rules, given the sensitive information held on parliamentary devices?
23:41 Can he share with the Chamber when he first shared with the First Minister
23:45 that his family members used his iPad during his family holiday in Morocco?
23:51 I set out in my statement the information that I provided to the First Minister.
23:57 When I engaged with the Parliament's IT department about the difficulties that I had with my phone not operating,
24:05 the advice that I was given was that I could use the iPad for hotspotting purposes.
24:11 I had used a hotspot before, and my son helped to facilitate that provision.
24:18 That is how they have been able to access the data that was provided on the iPad during the course of the holiday period.
24:25 I thank the Member for his statement.
24:32 We spoke yesterday in this Chamber about the Nolan principles of selflessness, integrity, objectivity, accountability, openness, honesty and leadership.
24:42 We have seen across this Chamber and outside the challenge that this statement has been, and I respect that.
24:48 In the my expenses that we use in this Parliament to authorise payments out of the budget that is provided by the Parliament from the taxpayer,
24:58 we certify that the expenditure was appropriate and arisen.
25:02 That was not correct in this case, was it?
25:08 This was a cost that was accrued to the Parliament's IT provision, not through my office allowances.
25:14 It was funded centrally by the Scottish Parliament, so there was no claim for the £11,000 through my parliamentary office.
25:22 I volunteered to make a contribution towards the cost, given the costs that the Parliament were facing as a result of the high roaming charges.
25:35 Does the Member agree that standards in public office are very important?
25:39 That is why it is right that he has referred himself to the Parliament Bureau.
25:44 I have been 24 years in this Parliament and I have always sought to maintain the high standards of the Parliament
25:57 through how I conduct myself, not as a Minister but as an MSP,
26:01 how my constituency office operates in supporting constituents
26:05 and how we have utilised the public resources that we are provided to undertake our job.
26:10 They are standards that I have always sought to apply and I will continue to seek to apply.
26:15 I have acknowledged the errors that have been made in this particular instance
26:19 and, as soon as those errors became apparent to us, the actions that I have taken in order to address them
26:24 by fully reimbursing the Parliament for the costs.
26:27 Thank you. That concludes the personal statement.
26:30 [Music plays]
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