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00:00 This is hard for me to say, because, Chase, I was forged, my basketball early philosophies in the
00:09 game were forged through Steve Clifford's coaching. I used to coach basketball in the UK, and I used
00:14 to take his low turnover, transition defense, defensive rebounding approach, and they were my
00:20 coaching philosophies. He genuinely was who I modeled the coach of when I was in my early 20s.
00:25 And trust me, I'm the last person, I'm the very last person in the crowd to ever criticize
00:33 coaching, because we don't see 99% of what's going on behind the scenes. And, you know,
00:42 every single, you can look at the Denver Nuggets last year, they all have had fans who have
00:46 criticized Mike Malone for his rotations and who he didn't play, right? It's just something that
00:51 happens. And this has nothing to do with rotations. For me, like, mostly his hands have been tied this
01:01 year. For me, it's if you look at the statistical profile of this team, there are some extremely,
01:11 extremely, extremely, especially for Steve Clifford's coaching team, worrying signs.
01:15 So before I get into the details, I mean, this is something I said to you the other week, I said,
01:19 off air, after you finished, I said, "Case, I'm just mentioning this and locking this away.
01:24 This team doesn't look very well coached at the minute." And we're now nine games in. I didn't
01:30 take anything away from that next game, but I feel like we're at the point now where I feel like
01:36 there's some stuff here which is not changing, and I feel like it's time I have to share this.
01:41 And I feel wholly uncomfortable doing it, because I'm not normally the, and I'm not blaming Steve
01:48 Clifford for everything. I'm not saying this is all the coach's fault. I'm not saying Steve
01:53 Clifford needs to be fired right now. What I'm saying is right now, this team doesn't look well
01:58 coached. And I'm going to get into the detail behind it in a minute. But what are your thoughts?
02:04 Do you think I'm reading too much into everything right now?
02:08 I don't know if you're reading too much into it. I don't know if I would say myself that
02:14 I don't think the team is well coached. But I mean, you're not wrong. The trends and the
02:20 tendencies of this team right now, A, don't line up with modern NBA trends and tendencies at all.
02:27 Actually, now that I look at it, this must have been updated from yesterday, they take the second
02:34 fewest threes per game in the NBA. The Lakers are actually the, take the fewest threes per game in
02:39 the NBA right now. But there's never a spot you want to be, especially with a team that has an
02:44 elite floor spacer in Lamello and Terry O'Zear when he eventually comes back to and has spot up
02:49 shooters like- Used to be elite. We've talked about this. Terry O'Zear, not been so elite in
02:54 the last few years. Should be elite. But maybe- Yeah, should be elite with the healthy roster
02:59 that they had two years ago or whatever. We can imagine that anyway. But even now, their transition
03:07 defense is absolutely horrible. And on top of the fact that they just give up a lot of points
03:12 as a transition defense, when they generate steals, they are 30th in frequency of when a team
03:20 steals leads to a transition play. So their deals are not even in advantageous situations. Often,
03:29 it's coming off of stripping ball handlers underneath the rim, and they're not creating
03:34 super high-paced opportunities on the other end. The team really only gets to run off of makes and
03:42 misses, which is just a really, really difficult way to rely on your offense is to force a miss
03:48 and then push off of it every time. It's A, tiring, and B, relies on the other team missing,
03:52 which in the NBA and with how skilled players are now is a tough thing to rely on, a night in
03:57 and night out. And on top of that, you're not even giving yourself a chance to be that team that's
04:02 making a bunch of shots, even though the other team is playing defense because your
04:06 three-point frequency is about as low as it could possibly be. I don't think that it's necessarily
04:14 Steve Clifford's messages are incorrect, because he said in that post-game, or I think it was a
04:20 pre-game interview before the Wizards game with Eric Collins, he's like, "We need to take more
04:23 threes. This is ridiculous." He's like, "There is no reason that we should be taking as few threes
04:29 as we are right now. We have too many good shooters, and you can't win games taking this
04:32 few threes. We need to take more." This is at Monty Williams in Phoenix,
04:35 where he was like, "No, we want to take mid-range shots. I want to see if we can do their elite."
04:39 Steve Clifford has said all the right things, but at the end of the day, a coach's job, like me or
04:45 you, can sit here and say, "Well, they need to take more threes. It doesn't make us good coaches."
04:48 Coaches need to be able to get their players to execute their instruction. That's what makes
04:55 elite coaches, is you influence, you help people understand and learn, and that's something that's
05:01 not happening. You talked about them not being modern in terms of their shot profile. You say
05:07 30th in the NBA in three-point attempts, or it might be 29th now, like you said.
05:12 Same difference, really.
05:14 Just 27.9% of their shots were threes. That was 2.1% below the next team, which was Orlando at 29th.
05:25 2.1%, that's the difference between 29th to 23rd. So they are 30th cut away by a mile here.
05:35 This isn't just that they're, it could be 25th quite easily. They are lagging way behind
05:41 everything. 30th in three-point shooting, 30% as a team. They are, again, 1.2% behind the next team.
05:49 I think it's like three or four teams tied in 31.4%. So again, comfortably in last place.
05:55 They are straight 30th in defense, 122.6 points per 100 possessions.
06:01 We started talking about them being, what was their top 10 defense after the All-Star
06:06 break last year? They are the worst defense in the NBA with the easiest strength of schedule so far.
06:14 This 3-6 record is mirage. They played a harder schedule. They could be like 0-10.
06:21 They've not played well. I'd say they played well in maybe half a game in that Atlanta Hawks game,
06:27 and then like a quarter here and there. And they've managed to eke out some wins against
06:31 Indiana, against Washington through good, brief spells. They are 28th in free throw rate.
06:39 So they're conceding 30th in defense. They're fouling everybody. They're turning the ball over.
06:46 Their transition defense is terrible. 30th in transition defense like you talked about.
06:51 So this is a Steve Clifford coach team. 30th in transition defense, 30th in defense altogether,
06:58 28th in free throw rate, putting people in the foul line, 13th in turnovers. These are not
07:04 Clifford coaching philosophies. This is the type of team that Steve Clifford hates. This is the
07:09 type of team that Steve Clifford asked me if he had any hair left, would be pulling out.
07:14 Now, I can see some people going, "Well, look at Mark Williams. He's been great. He had the 2020
07:20 game." And he has been great. But also Mark Williams' success for me is almost an indicator
07:27 of this team's wider struggles. This team is scoring on the paint all the time because it's
07:33 all they can do. And it's the only way they can score. And they're getting to Mark Williams all
07:37 time. And it's a benefit of the play style. He got, how many, 15 offensive rebounds against the
07:42 Wizards? And a lot of his points came from those and a lot of his rebounds. But that's also because
07:47 they're, one, missing all their shots. And then two, because they're trying to offensive rebound,
07:52 they're not getting back in defense. So Mark Williams has had some really positive moments.
08:00 But equally, I think his success sometimes is coming at the cost of maybe some wider
08:05 team style success. And he's having some of his statistics inflated a little bit.
08:10 They keep talking about playing fast, how this team is built to play fast. They're 25th in
08:17 transition frequency. And even when they get in transition, they're only 21st. LaMela Ball has
08:23 taken eight shot attempts in transition this season and scored once. LaMela Ball is supposed
08:29 to be a one man fast break. And yes, I know he drives the pass, probably 99% of the time,
08:34 but he should be taking, you know, trail man threes. He should be going coast to coast,
08:40 getting to the rim. And that is just not happening. And this goes all the way back to
08:45 the start of training camp where Steve Cliff had said, and he did the same thing last year.
08:49 He says, what a lot of teams do early is they put in like a lot of defense and offense.
08:55 What I like to do is we scrimmage, we get up and down because the guys like it. It's good,
08:59 it's competitive, it's enjoyable. That's great. And it all sounds great, but this team looks like
09:06 one that has not worked on its, you know, on its defense, on its offense, especially its defensive
09:11 stuff enough. And I wonder if Steve Cliff could go back in time now and change that. Maybe that
09:19 is how they used to do it. And he talks about that's how the Van Gundys used to do it. Yeah.
09:22 Well, are any of the Van Gundys coaching the NBA right now? No, Steve, they're not.
09:26 Maybe times have moved on and actually we should be focusing on some of the scheme stuff in training
09:34 camp. And like, for me, people should come into the season in good shape. Like Premier League
09:39 football clubs, they didn't coach fitness in the first few weeks of the season. That's like a
09:43 guarantee. Like that should, you're professional and you turn up your fit. Pre-season is where you
09:49 start to build your identity into your team. And this is just not a well coached team to start the
09:54 year. Now I'm not saying it can't get better. They made progress last year throughout the season,
09:58 despite the low wins, they made progress. He's shown Steve Clifford teams have generally got
10:03 better throughout the year. But that needs to start happening quickly. And they don't have
10:07 the guns right now with the guys available. Because if it doesn't, Steve Clifford is not
10:13 going to see out this year as head coach. If these trends continue, by the time we get to January,
10:19 February, I do not see the front office ownership, keeping Steve Clifford in place.
10:26 That was extremely well said. That was one of the best soliloquies I think we've gotten on this
10:34 podcast right now. But I want to ask you a question, James. LaMelo Ball leads the team in
10:40 total free throw attempts this year, 39. He's made 32 of them. So obviously shooting pretty
10:45 well from the line. Where do you think that ranks in the entire league? Among just total free throw
10:51 attempts for individual players? Where do you think that ranks in the NBA right now?
10:55 Oh, wow. How many did you say he had the season? 39.
11:00 39 in nine games. 39 in nine games. I mean, it's not a great deal. 50th?
11:10 You're very close. 45th. But still, there is not a single other team that has a player who's
11:20 leading the team in free throw attempts that low. And when you put that next to the fact that they
11:27 are leading the league in points in the paint per game, what I think that says, and you brought it
11:33 up too, the only thing that they can do to get a paint touch is run, pick, and roll. Or have LaMelo
11:40 use his ball handling and get to the rim, or Hayward drop his shoulder and work his way in
11:44 there. Besides that, they have quite literally no way for someone to break down their defender,
11:50 off the dribble, get into the paint, create contact, or some sort of defensive collapse
11:56 where you can kick it out. Which, it literally is causing both of their problems. They're not
12:03 shooting threes because when they drive into the paint, it's off of a pick and roll, so the defense
12:08 only has to really defend that. You just have to tag the roller, make sure that you're in the right
12:12 spots to rotate and help and whatnot. And otherwise, they're just not getting to the
12:17 line either. So you are not getting any sort of production out of the two most efficient shots
12:24 in basketball. While also, you are getting to the paint. You're not doing it in the right way.
12:35 It's like you're almost there and you have the capability to do it, but the offense, when it
12:40 does anything that's not a pick and roll, the first action, if they run something in horns or
12:46 whatever, the ball gets to the elbow and it just dies. There's no movement, player movement, ball
12:52 movement, cutting, nothing after that. If they run something like a pistol action from the empty
12:57 side, the guy takes the pitch and comes up out of the corner and nothing happens. They just dribble
13:04 for a couple seconds or make a non-threatening pass to somebody on the other side of the ball
13:08 or on the other side of the court. And they just run the same thing. There's just no
13:12 second level to anything so far, really, if that makes any sense. It's just like,
13:19 come set a screen, roll to the rim or fade to the three-point line. That didn't work. Oh,
13:24 let me kick the ball over to the next guy. Then someone else can go set a screen for them and
13:28 they can run it again. And it just goes and goes until you get a bad shot or a turnover or
13:34 some pick and roll layup with Mark and Nick, which has worked. But if that's the only thing
13:38 you can do, you're in a good heap of trouble, which is what we've seen so far. And the offense,
13:45 I think, is still in the top 12 in offensive rating. That does not match the eye test whatsoever
13:51 to me. Do you think that there are 18 teams in the league that are worse at offense than the Hornets
13:56 right now? I don't. I didn't pick for a lot of points because of Lamello and Hayward.
14:02 It's only because of the schedule. Chase, if they played good teams, I'm telling you,
14:06 they would have all got like the Knicks games. They played the Wizards, the Nets, who are missing
14:12 all their size, the defenders, the paces. This is why. This is down to the reason why their offense
14:18 is so high. When they come up against a team that can protect the rim, like New York could,
14:24 you see what happens. This team does not. They do not have the offensive firepower to score at that
14:31 level. So it is a mirage right now. It is all mirage. The warning signs, this is why I was like,
14:39 I said those two Wizards games were must wins because the schedule only gets so much tougher
14:43 and you need to fatten up on those wins early. And I said at least the Hornets need to be 5-5
14:50 after 10 games for them to be in play and contention. They're going to be, at best,
14:56 they're going to be 4-6. They're probably going to be 3-7. Yeah, it is, you know, when they have
15:05 everybody available, like they then have the players like everyone can dribble, pass and shoot
15:10 when they have everybody available. But they don't have that at the minute. And they don't have a
15:14 player who can just consistently draw a double that then kind of gets the defense moving and
15:18 starts that. LaMelo Ball is not a double team drawing type of player right now because he's
15:25 not the scoring threat. I know he's coming off four third point games, but he is not someone that
15:29 other teams send two players at. They're more than happy to live with LaMelo Ball generally
15:34 under single coverage because they know he'd rather pass the ball most of the time. Yeah.
15:40 So that was hard to say. I have so much respect for Steve Cuffin and the work that he's done as
15:47 a coach. I think he's a top 10 coach in the league. There's an argument for it, at least.
15:53 It's just not. Well, not landing. I don't know if I made that argument now, but now,
16:00 certainly probably not. But prior to the last couple of weeks, it's just not not landing anymore.