ESPN college basketball analyst Seth Greenberg breaks down how important the 2023-24 season is for Gonzaga basketball, the impact of NIL and the transfer and more.
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00:00 (upbeat music)
00:02 - Gonzaga Nation rolls on.
00:10 I'm your host, Dan Dickow,
00:12 here as we continue to connect
00:14 with a lot of the top tier analysts of college basketball.
00:19 Today's one of the best in the business.
00:21 One of the hosts of College Game Day for ESPN.
00:25 You will see him throughout the season,
00:27 breaking it down as a coach, as a fan, as a true insider,
00:32 none other than Seth Greenberg.
00:34 So Seth, hopefully that was a okay intro
00:37 and thank you for joining.
00:39 - Just don't call me a guru.
00:40 I'm not an insider.
00:42 I just talk ball, man.
00:43 I mean, I talk ball.
00:46 When I go to practices,
00:47 I don't tell people who they're gonna start
00:49 after watching a two hour practice.
00:51 I just kind of take it all in, get a feel for teams
00:54 and I have tremendous respect for,
00:57 you know, this time of the year is a great time as a coach.
00:59 It was my favorite time of the year.
01:01 'Cause you kind of get a better understanding of your team,
01:04 even though you've had them all summer
01:05 and you had them preseason,
01:06 kind of the temperatures raised,
01:08 you're trying to better understand roles,
01:11 substitution patterns, guys' strengths, weaknesses,
01:14 how to get your best players to the ball where they want 'em,
01:17 what you're gonna do defensively.
01:18 So it's a great time of the year, but I am no guru.
01:21 I'm just a fired basketball coach that likes to talk ball.
01:24 (Dan laughs)
01:26 - Well, we'll let you call yourself what you want
01:28 because you are one of the best analysts
01:31 out there right now.
01:31 So I will not call you guru.
01:33 What I will ask you though is,
01:36 before we started recording,
01:37 you said you were at St. John's practice yesterday.
01:40 That might've been the Rick Pitino to St. John's move,
01:43 might've been the most kind of influential
01:46 in coaching circles this off season.
01:48 The year before it was Jay Wright and Coach K retiring.
01:51 This year it was Coach Pitino.
01:54 I'd say this politely, he's a little up there in age,
01:57 but everything you read and everything you see
02:00 is he's still got that fire
02:01 and he's still one of the top coaches in the country.
02:05 What did you see?
02:06 - Well, God knows Rick, he's not 14 years old.
02:09 I mean, he's, like age has nothing to do with it.
02:11 You look at the NBA,
02:12 if you think about some of the older coaches in the NBA,
02:15 I mean, it just, it is what it is.
02:16 You either can coach or you can't coach.
02:18 If you have passion for the game, you don't.
02:21 Either you get to have the ability to connect with players
02:24 or you don't.
02:26 Either you can hold teams to a standard or you don't.
02:29 So Rick was Rick.
02:32 He's a master teacher.
02:34 He's an innovator.
02:36 He's got great energy about him.
02:39 It's individual workouts in the morning,
02:40 team practice in the afternoon.
02:42 He's there for every single session.
02:44 He's totally engaged.
02:46 It's not like he's handing things off,
02:47 but the only thing that changed is he wears a microphone.
02:51 So to save his voice a little bit,
02:53 but besides that, in terms of how he was engaged in practice,
02:58 he's just a great teacher.
02:59 And they've done a great job in the portal.
03:01 They've done a good job of recruiting players
03:03 and getting guys in,
03:04 whether it's Jordan Dingle, transferred from Penn,
03:06 who was a big time scorer,
03:07 whether it is the big kid from Kansas,
03:11 keeping Soriano was really, really important.
03:14 Dennis Jenkins, who he took back from Iona.
03:18 They're big, they're long, they're athletic.
03:21 They have shot makers.
03:24 They've got a really interesting roster
03:27 and they're gonna be a factor in the Big East.
03:30 - Yeah, the Big East obviously had the reigning champion,
03:35 UConn Huskies a season ago.
03:37 That league looks as deep as any in the country.
03:40 One of the other leagues that looks really extremely deep
03:43 and they've looked this way for a number of years,
03:45 but they haven't been able to break through
03:47 in the NCAA tournament is the Big 10.
03:49 Is this the year, because Purdue is probably top three,
03:53 top four, maybe even top ranked
03:56 in some people's eyes going in.
03:57 Michigan State should be pretty good again.
04:00 What do you see in Michigan, or sorry, in the Big 10?
04:03 - You know, it's interesting.
04:05 You're right.
04:06 I mean, they have a lot of good teams.
04:07 They always had, I mean, look, there's great atmospheres,
04:10 great energy, great ownership, great venues.
04:12 The Big 10 takes care of business preseason.
04:16 They're non-conference, they absolutely kick ass.
04:19 I mean, it's just the way it is.
04:20 So like whenever it says, "Oh, the Big 10's overrated."
04:23 Well, you know, in preseason, it's not overrated
04:25 'cause they win the games they need to win.
04:27 They win their out of conference games.
04:29 They have not had success, obviously, in Michigan State.
04:33 It's the last team in the Big 10
04:34 to win a national championship.
04:35 You understand that.
04:36 Purdue's had some probably difficult NCAA tournament results
04:41 in terms of obviously the loss to St. Pete,
04:43 loss to my alma mater, Fairleigh Dickinson,
04:46 Harvard on a Hackensack.
04:47 But they got, you know, Zach Eaddy back.
04:49 They got Foster Loyer back.
04:50 They got Smith back.
04:51 They got Gillis back.
04:53 I mean, they've got a really good basketball team.
04:57 They've got to figure out a way when they play
04:58 against these teams that get up and underneath them
05:01 late in the season, not early in the season,
05:03 but late in the season.
05:04 They've got to do a better job of handling that pressure,
05:06 not getting pushed out, not playing defensive,
05:09 being a little more assertive probably.
05:11 I've been to a ton of Matt Painter's practices.
05:13 He is a great coach.
05:15 I mean, he's a terrific coach.
05:17 You know, we judge him through, we don't,
05:19 but you know, the fans judge him through Marsh.
05:21 I'd more judge his body of work.
05:24 People said the same things about Jay Wright
05:25 until he won national championships.
05:29 That doesn't define you as a coach.
05:30 It defines you as a, maybe a Hall of Famer,
05:32 or it defines you, you know,
05:34 it puts you in an exclusive club.
05:36 But, you know, Purdue's going to be really good.
05:38 Michigan State's a monster.
05:39 I really, this is Tom's best team.
05:42 He's got young guys, he's got old guys.
05:44 He's got a veteran backcourt.
05:45 Adrian Hogarth is big physical.
05:47 He's the perfect compliment
05:49 because he kind of pokes Coach Izzo a little bit,
05:53 drives him a little crazy, which keeps him on his edge.
05:56 Obviously Tyson Walker is different.
05:59 Tyson just kind of does the right thing when, you know,
06:02 when it needs to be done, which is really important.
06:05 They've got front court guys that have versatility
06:09 and are a little bit different.
06:11 They've got depth all over the place.
06:12 They, you know, they've got shot making.
06:16 Michigan State's good.
06:17 Indiana's probably the big question mark.
06:18 Ohio State is a little bit of a question mark.
06:21 You know, how do you replace Trace Jackson Davis?
06:23 Well, you know, you got your point guard,
06:25 Xavier Johnson back, so that's a good start.
06:28 They've got the Reeves kid back,
06:30 who I think is going to be really, really,
06:32 Renaud kid back, who's going to be really good.
06:35 So the Big Ten's going to have the depth it always has.
06:38 It really is.
06:39 It's going to have the depth it always has.
06:40 Ohio State, I think they have a bounce back year.
06:42 They'll get healthier.
06:44 They just had a bad chemistry about them last year.
06:46 So I think the Big Ten will, you know,
06:49 have seven teams in the NCAA Tournament,
06:51 and I think two of them have a legitimate chance
06:54 to make deep runs.
06:56 Well, being on the West Coast,
06:57 we've started to hear a lot more about the Big Ten
07:00 because USC, UCLA a season ago,
07:02 and then Oregon and Washington recently announcing
07:06 their departures from the Pac-12 to that league.
07:08 So great insight there.
07:10 You know, put yourself in a current coach's shoes right now.
07:14 You've got the NIL to deal with,
07:16 and you've got the transfer portal
07:17 that you have to sift through every year.
07:20 How would you as a coach kind of work those two things
07:24 because they're the two biggest elephants in the room
07:28 anytime you're recruiting,
07:29 whether it's a high-level high school player,
07:31 which unfortunately a lot of your foundational
07:33 high school players, I at least think,
07:35 a lot of your foundational high school players
07:36 are being overlooked because of the transfer portal.
07:40 How would you work with those two elephants in the room?
07:43 - First of all, I totally agree.
07:44 I think guys are mis-evaluating.
07:46 I think guys are so into the portal
07:48 that they're losing opportunities to find players,
07:51 develop players, and enhance their culture
07:54 by having program guys.
07:56 You need program guys.
07:57 Now, the answer to that, when you speak to guys,
07:59 well, if guys are impatient,
08:00 they can transfer after a year anyway.
08:02 Well, that comes down to showing them
08:04 how you can help get better,
08:05 developing real relationships and having a plan for them,
08:08 and laying that plan out up front,
08:10 and then not over-recruiting over them through the portal,
08:15 which I think is important.
08:16 I think that the biggest part of recruiting
08:19 that people don't understand then is evaluating.
08:22 It's the most underappreciated aspect of recruiting.
08:25 And I think that this is an easy way out.
08:28 The portal's an easy way out.
08:30 You have a guy, he's older, he's more mature,
08:32 you kind of have a feel for what he's done,
08:36 but can he buy into your culture?
08:38 Like I used Villanova as an example.
08:39 Villanova had a great recruiting class in the portal,
08:43 but how do you get that attitude
08:46 that quote-unquote Villanova's basketball's all about,
08:48 or the DNA of the culture and the identity and the ownership
08:52 when you're gonna have four basically guys
08:55 from other programs,
08:57 and basically having to embrace new roles.
09:00 I think Kyle will do a good job,
09:01 but how to balance the two is real simple.
09:03 I think that you, I still think you just,
09:06 you use the portal to fill in gaps.
09:08 If you become a complete portal program,
09:12 very few can do it successfully.
09:14 Obviously, Eric Musselman's been able to do it
09:16 at a very high level, but I would fill in gaps with that.
09:20 The NIL's a different story.
09:21 You put the transfer portal on top of the NIL,
09:24 and it's not NIL, so let's stop calling it NIL.
09:27 Calling it NIL is such bull crap, it's ridiculous.
09:30 It's pay for play.
09:33 Call it what it is.
09:34 It's pay for play.
09:36 Guys are putting themselves out there, hiring agents,
09:39 and is it the best program?
09:41 Is it the best coach?
09:43 Is it the best environment?
09:44 Is it winning?
09:46 In the end, some of the guys are making decisions
09:48 just because of money.
09:49 And look, that's what it is, that's what it is,
09:51 but let's stop calling it NIL,
09:52 'cause NIL, collectives are not NIL.
09:55 Very few guys can move the needle like NIL.
09:58 I think it all depends on, to answer your question,
09:59 it all depends on what level you're at.
10:03 You know, if I'm a mid-major guy,
10:05 I find 10 corporations to give me 50 grand apiece.
10:08 I do reading programs and after-school programs and clinics.
10:12 I say, you know what, you're all gonna get
10:13 the same amount of money, now I'm gonna coach you.
10:15 Any guy that goes through the portal,
10:18 or any guy that is worried about his players
10:20 going into the portal,
10:21 and then becomes afraid to coach their teams,
10:23 to me, it's embarrassing.
10:28 Like, here's the deal.
10:30 Coach your team.
10:31 Coach your team hard, if that's who you are.
10:33 Be demanding, have a standard.
10:35 And you know what, if that kid decides to leave
10:37 'cause he doesn't wanna be coached hard,
10:39 he doesn't wanna get better,
10:40 he doesn't wanna have demands,
10:41 he doesn't wanna buy into a role,
10:43 he's not helping you win anyway.
10:45 So what, you know what, so you lose him.
10:49 That's just the way it is.
10:50 But that guy's not helping you win the games
10:51 you need to win, 'cause to win the games you need to win,
10:55 not just the games you're gonna win,
10:56 but the games you need to win,
10:58 you gotta have guys that are bought in,
10:59 that are playing for the right reasons,
11:01 that are great teammates, that are tough,
11:02 that are competitive, that are not worried about
11:05 what the static that's around them,
11:07 they're worried about one thing,
11:09 being a great teammate and winning.
11:11 So my advice to coaches is, yeah,
11:14 you gotta deal with that, anyhow,
11:15 and you know, there's, or pay for play,
11:18 and there's a cost of doing that.
11:20 But if that impacts how you coach your team,
11:22 you're making a huge mistake,
11:24 because you won't get the best out of your team.
11:28 And you know what, isn't the whole idea
11:30 to help your guys get somewhere they can't get themselves?
11:33 Well, to do that, they can't do it by themselves.
11:35 Look, you played at the highest level,
11:38 you played on championship teams,
11:40 you played on teams that made deep runs in the tournament.
11:43 And you know what, everyone looks at you and they say,
11:46 or months and they say, "Those guys coached you,
11:51 "they held you to a standard,
11:52 "you had to play a certain way."
11:54 And you know what, I gotta believe,
11:57 I can't imagine Mark Few changing how he's coaching,
12:01 just because the portal's involved,
12:03 or just because NIL's involved.
12:05 You know, you gotta say true to your core beliefs
12:08 and your non-negotiables.
12:09 So I would tell coaches, if I did it,
12:12 I'd say true to my core beliefs and my non-negotiables,
12:16 I would try to be fair with the pay for play,
12:19 with through the collectives,
12:20 but most importantly, I would coach my team, man.
12:23 I'd coach my team, and I wouldn't be afraid
12:25 to coach my team, and I would spend a ton of time with them,
12:28 explaining what they're getting into
12:29 when they decide to come and play for me,
12:32 and tell them that if I did not coach you hard every day,
12:34 then I'm not helping you become the best version of yourself,
12:37 and that is cheating you.
12:39 And if you don't allow me to do that,
12:41 then that is cheating the program.
12:44 And I don't wanna cheat you,
12:46 and I don't wanna cheat the program.
12:47 I wanna do what's in both of our best interests,
12:50 and that is coach you every day.
12:52 - That's great stuff there.
12:54 And I would agree.
12:56 I've been to plenty of practices over the years
12:58 with Coach Few, and he hasn't taken a step back
13:02 of holding guys accountable to, as you mentioned,
13:05 or call them core beliefs or non-negotiables.
13:08 I mean, I remember back at my red shirt year,
13:12 one of his non-negotiables for a point guard was,
13:16 "I don't care how you get from point A to point B
13:18 "to get us into whatever set, but you gotta get us there.
13:21 "Your job is to initiate offense,
13:24 "and sometimes it might be a shot for you.
13:26 "Sometimes it might be a post-entry
13:28 "or a setup for a pick and roll."
13:30 That hasn't changed.
13:32 And I think the best coaches don't sway
13:36 with the ever-changing winds of rule changes over the years.
13:40 Would you agree with that?
13:42 - Yeah, 100%.
13:43 You gotta be comfortable in your own skin,
13:46 and you gotta have an identity.
13:48 Team's gotta have an identity,
13:50 and you've gotta have an identity.
13:52 Like I call it the outfit mentality.
13:53 I know they have it in the Pacific Northwest.
13:55 I mean, basically, you go to Outback,
13:57 you're gonna get a steak, you're gonna get a blooming onion.
14:00 It's gonna be pretty good going down,
14:01 and probably about two or three hours later,
14:03 it might not be so good,
14:04 but you know what you're getting every single time.
14:06 It's consistency.
14:08 All right, I think players need consistency.
14:10 As long as they know who you are
14:12 and who you're gonna be each and every day,
14:16 they'll figure it out.
14:17 But players also gotta understand who they are
14:19 and how they win, and as a team, who you are
14:21 and how you win.
14:23 And if you can have those two things together,
14:26 then you have a chance to have a special season.
14:29 And I think we're so blinded by
14:34 and worrying about by the portal,
14:37 and so, you know, and NIL, or pay for play,
14:40 that, you know, set your parameters,
14:42 your word is your body.
14:43 You say you're gonna do something, do something,
14:45 but in the end, this is not sustainable.
14:47 So we're either gonna have to have contracts,
14:50 or we're gonna have to find new revenue streams.
14:52 New revenue streams could be these two exhibition games
14:56 that teams are able to play.
14:58 All right, I see like a lot of people
15:00 are playing games for charities.
15:01 They might become promoted by an outside group.
15:05 I know right now it's not legal with the NCAA,
15:07 promoted by an outside group,
15:09 coached the exhibition games by the coaches and the teams,
15:13 and the revenue generated would go to the two teams.
15:15 It would be an NIL stream, or a collective stream.
15:19 Summer, you have eight weeks in the summer.
15:21 End of the summer, you get four teams together.
15:24 You go to a site, you play two exhibition games,
15:27 coached by the assistant coaches,
15:29 give them a chance to coach a team.
15:31 That way the players won't be pissed at the head coach
15:33 if he doesn't, you know, guys don't get a certain amount
15:36 of minutes or whatever.
15:37 All right, same thing.
15:39 The end of the weekend, it's kind of a reward
15:41 for the end of the eight weeks.
15:42 The money raised, you know, you could play in Spokane,
15:45 you could play in Atlanta, you could play wherever.
15:47 After expenses, that money's gonna go into a pot
15:49 that's gonna be for the collectives.
15:52 But there's gotta be some accountability.
15:54 There's gotta be an academic accountability,
15:55 there's gotta be a social accountability,
15:57 there's gotta be a behavioral accountability,
16:00 like any other quote-unquote contract.
16:02 But I think we're gonna have to find new revenue streams.
16:04 Unless Juergen Zag and you have one really wealthy guy
16:07 that's gonna say, "Here, I'm gonna give you $20 million,
16:10 "and you're gonna live off the interest,
16:11 "your NIL's gonna live off the interest of that."
16:14 It's just not sustainable,
16:16 especially if you're not getting tax credit,
16:18 especially if you're not getting seat options
16:20 and better parking and all the benefits
16:23 that people get from donating to the university.
16:25 So we've gotta find a way to control it
16:28 to somehow, some way.
16:30 Contracts and finding unique and creative ways
16:33 outside of what we're doing now,
16:36 I think is the best way to go.
16:38 - Well, I wanna be mindful of your time,
16:41 'cause I know it's the preseason,
16:43 there's lots of prep going on.
16:44 But last question, with your role with ESPN
16:47 and in particular, College Game Day,
16:49 you go across the country
16:51 and are part of marquee games every single week,
16:54 once you hit that January time of year.
16:57 Game Day was in Spokane last year.
17:01 How did Spokane and the Kennel stack up
17:04 with some of the better venues you've been to
17:06 with Game Day over the years?
17:07 - It's tremendous, it was awesome.
17:09 It was awesome, it really was.
17:11 The students were incredible.
17:14 Got some pretty good donuts there too, it was great.
17:16 As I was walking down, coming in, I got a couple of donuts,
17:18 it was good, I appreciate those people that gave us donuts.
17:21 But no, it was a great atmosphere.
17:24 That was my first time to the Kennel.
17:26 I've done Game Day games with Gonzaga,
17:29 but I've done them at St. Mary's.
17:31 So it was different.
17:33 Just the whole environment there,
17:35 the ownership, the students, the joy,
17:37 the fun that they had,
17:39 to me was everything that I expected and more.
17:45 Now this year is gonna be different.
17:47 If you wanna get real quickly into your guys,
17:49 I mean, I am really interested to see,
17:52 Phewy is a master teacher and coach, we know that.
17:58 But this is probably, they got the least depth,
18:01 they're losing 60 points a game.
18:03 That's just, I mean,
18:03 like you don't have to be a rocket scientist.
18:05 Obviously getting Nebar in is huge
18:08 'cause you got a guy who, like you said,
18:10 put the ball in his hand, get his to the offense,
18:12 get his going.
18:14 Anton Watts has got a new role.
18:15 That's gonna be, I think, interesting.
18:19 Nolan Hickman's got a new role.
18:21 That's going to be interesting.
18:23 I mean, Ben Gregg's got a new role.
18:25 Grant E.K., is he gonna understand
18:28 exactly what's expected of him?
18:30 I mean, this is the changing of the guard
18:34 for Gonzaga basketball.
18:36 I mean, it really is.
18:37 It's a changing of the guard in a drastic way.
18:41 So I mean, and speaking of people,
18:44 I guess the Venter's kid is supposed to be
18:45 really, really good.
18:47 - Great shooter.
18:48 - He's a big time shot maker,
18:50 which is obviously a huge,
18:53 and Stromer's supposed to be a big time,
18:56 skilled wing player.
18:58 But to rely on so many new players
19:02 and then so many players within new roles,
19:05 I think that's gonna be the interesting thing for Mark.
19:10 Now I think having the guys in the summer is huge.
19:13 It's not like he played guys a ton of minutes.
19:16 I mean, got deep, deep into the bench,
19:20 but you're still, you're injury away
19:22 from really having an issue.
19:24 So I think it's gonna be really interesting to watch.
19:27 The league has gotten better.
19:28 Like everyone smacks the league around,
19:30 but you know St. Mary's gonna get better.
19:32 Herb Sendak's done a really good job at Santa Clara.
19:35 Obviously we're losing BYU.
19:37 The non-conference schedule with the Ucons
19:39 and everyone else that they're playing
19:41 is as usual gonna be daunting.
19:43 I still think they're gonna be good,
19:46 but it is gonna be different.
19:49 It's gonna be different.
19:51 And there is a little bit of a learning curve.
19:54 The biggest thing is how strong a leadership
19:58 will they get from Anton Watson?
20:00 How long street leadership will they get from Hickman?
20:03 Obviously Nembhard understands what it is
20:06 to be a part of this program through his brother.
20:10 Because those things are real.
20:12 Now I think the other thing that they have going for them
20:14 is a bunch of you guys still live there.
20:17 And when I was a university of Miami as an assistant,
20:22 way back in the day, when Miami football was really good,
20:26 the former players were always around.
20:28 And those former players basically made sure
20:34 that they held those new guys in the program
20:38 accountable to the essence of what the program stood for.
20:41 And I think you guys being around is so, so valuable
20:47 to a season like this, because you guys are the standard.
20:53 And you guys probably have a little bit
20:57 of that moral responsibility
20:58 of making sure these guys understand,
21:01 'cause they're just putting that uniform for one year.
21:03 There's some of those guys.
21:05 How special it is to put that uniform on.
21:07 Like I said this about North Carolina's team last year,
21:10 and got a lot of feedback
21:12 from former North Carolina players, positive feedback.
21:16 Got a lot of negative feedback from fans, but former players.
21:20 It's not a rite of passage to put that Gonzaga uniform on.
21:22 It's a privilege and it's earned.
21:25 And when you put that jersey on,
21:27 there's an expectation of how hard you compete,
21:29 how you play, the way you play,
21:32 because that's what Gonzaga is all about.
21:34 The same last year, those North Carolina guys,
21:37 they put that jersey on,
21:38 they didn't respect those who played before them.
21:41 They didn't understand and respect how you play,
21:43 how hard you play, how unselfish you need to be,
21:47 how committed you need to be to the good of the group.
21:50 I think it's huge for Coach Few to have you guys around
21:55 just to support the essence of what makes
22:00 and what has made Gonzaga who it is
22:03 and the special program it has been
22:05 for the last, what, 30 years?
22:07 Close to, yeah.
22:09 Well, Coach, I appreciate the time.
22:10 Always appreciate you.
22:13 You drop nuggets in regards to everything
22:16 when we have conversations.
22:17 Hopefully our paths cross at some point
22:19 with our broadcasting seasons this year,
22:22 'cause you never know where you're gonna pop up
22:23 and I don't know where I'm gonna pop up yet either.
22:25 So thanks for joining.
22:27 Anytime, man.
22:28 Appreciate it and really happy for you.
22:30 And you're doing great.
22:31 You're killing it, man.
22:33 How's the gym?
22:33 That's what I wanna know.
22:35 Gym's going well.
22:36 Next time you're in Spokane,
22:37 I know you said you've only been here
22:38 that one time for game day.
22:40 You gotta come up and check it out.
22:42 We could use a Seth Greenberg testimonial, that's for sure.
22:45 You got it.
22:47 My pleasure.
22:48 All right, take care and have a great day.
22:50 All right, buddy.
22:51 For Gonzaga Nation, that was insider,
22:55 don't call him guru, former coach,
22:57 Seth Greenberg for Gonzaga Nation.
23:00 (upbeat music)
23:03 (upbeat music)