On this episode of Head 2 Head presented by Tire Rack
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MotorTranscript
00:00 50 years! Camaro versus Mustang has been going on for 50 years. What's awesome about this
00:07 rivalry is it just keeps getting better and better. I mean, think about where these cars
00:12 started at, right? Back in 1964, the Mustang was just a Ford Falcon in a body kit. But
00:18 then, thanks to the hard work of a lot of people, including some guy named Carroll Shelby,
00:22 they got sportier and racier until it evolved into this, the Shelby GT350R. In fact, last
00:30 time we did this head-to-head, the R kicked the stuffing out of the fifth-gen Camaro Z28.
00:36 Damn right it did, after I drove halfway across this country to drag race them.
00:41 Jason, you didn't do that.
00:42 I ain't Jason, I'm his cousin Bob from West Virginia.
00:45 Jason, you're not fooling it. You're not even fooling the voices in your own head.
00:48 You look ridiculous!
00:50 Thank you. Look, we can't possibly take ourselves seriously here. The rivalry has been going
00:54 on for 50 years, but I feel like we've been doing this comparison test for 100.
00:58 Fair point.
00:59 We have to have a little bit of fun with this. It's a Mustang and Camaro.
01:02 Yeah, but the people that built these two, they took their jobs very seriously. I mean,
01:06 pony cars, forget that. These are world-class sports cars.
01:11 So what you're saying is we need to go drag race them?
01:13 Sure.
01:14 Alrighty!
01:15 Woohoo!
01:16 Lose the wig.
01:17 [music]
01:21 [car engine]
01:23 [laughter]
01:25 [music]
01:29 [music]
01:44 [music]
01:47 [car engine]
01:58 I think, Jason, you've once again engineered one of your tests that I'm guaranteed to
02:06 lose. I mean, the Camaro has more than 200 extra pound-feet of torque, more than 100
02:10 horsepower than this poor Mustang, and we're doing a drag race. I mean, I'm guaranteed
02:15 to lose. I'm doomed.
02:17 I would say that all of that extra power and torque makes this car that much more difficult
02:22 to get off the line, and therefore, this is a perfectly fair test.
02:26 Yeah, you would say that. Instead of a quarter-mile drag race, let's just say whoever can fly
02:31 by the comp faster after a half-mile, that's the winner.
02:35 Oh, so biggest speeding ticket wins.
02:37 Exactly.
02:39 Somebody count us down. Okay, guys, ready? And three, two, one, go.
02:46 [music]
02:50 [laughter]
02:59 [music]
03:08 [car engine]
03:11 That's a pretty clear win for the Camaro.
03:25 I'm shocked.
03:27 But, you know, the Camaro is about $2,500 cheaper than the Shelby, so you can just go
03:32 ahead and apply that cash to your speeding ticket.
03:34 Good point. However, that straight-line stuff is stupid, and no one cares about it. In fact,
03:39 there is one thing and one thing only the buyers of this car care about.
03:44 How loud they are. I have here a decibelometer. Actually, it's an iPhone, but it has a decibel
03:50 meter on it. And the cars need to drive by at 60 miles an hour at full throttle, and
03:55 it'll tell me which one's louder.
03:57 Well, I think our ears can tell us which one's louder, but it's more important, I believe,
04:01 it's which one sounds better. You have your little toy. I have mine. This is Ben, the
04:07 silent sound guy. And Ben is going to listen to each car go by and let us know which one
04:12 sounds better.
04:14 Okay.
04:16 [car engine]
04:18 Okay, you can come through whenever you're ready.
04:21 You ready?
04:23 [car engine]
04:30 104.6 decibels. Did you like it?
04:33 104.6 decibels. This is what he does.
04:38 You want to get the Mustang?
04:40 So, like, can you speak or can you make sounds? Like, if I tickle you?
04:45 Ooh, angry sound, man.
04:48 All right, John, you want to come through?
04:50 [car engine]
04:58 110.4 decibels, and he's smiling. We have a winner.
05:03 [car engine]
05:07 [laughing]
05:26 Go figure, it's loud in here, too. Freakishly loud in here.
05:30 What?
05:31 Oh, my God. That thing's crazy. I can't believe it's legal.
05:35 Look, I remember a couple years ago I was at the Goodwood Festival of Speed, and before
05:40 anybody had driven the R, they debuted it there, and Dave Parisek, the head of Ford
05:47 Performance, was there, and he was talking about the car, then he gets in and starts
05:50 it up, and I couldn't believe my ears.
05:52 They must have all scattered.
05:54 [car engine]
05:56 That was a crazy year because the Aston Martin Vulcan was there, and that is the best-sounding
06:00 car in the world, and the loudest because it's an uncored 7-liter V12, but this is
06:05 almost as good. This thing is just nuts.
06:07 It's so loud. It sounds so good. And it's been a while, so we should do a tech refresher
06:11 for those at home. This is a flat-plane crankshaft V8, so it should sound like a Ferrari with
06:16 that nice, sweet, smooth thing. It don't, and that's because it has unequal-length
06:20 heads, and it sounds like Chewbacca. I mean, it makes this insane noise.
06:26 [car engine]
06:27 The other thing, too, remember, it's got a much larger displacement than other flat-plane
06:30 engines because Ford put this big rubber donut dampener thing on the end of the crank so
06:35 it won't shake itself apart.
06:37 [car engine]
06:38 This has got to be the worst NV, and more importantly, H, of any engine in production,
06:44 is noise, vibration, and harshness.
06:46 Yeah, but what I like about it--
06:47 But it's the best part about it.
06:48 Yeah, exactly. To me, it's very racy. It's very race car-like.
06:51 Yeah.
06:52 And Shelbys are supposed to be racy. Remember, it's Carroll Shelby.
06:55 Racers don't care about smooth engines.
06:57 To be honest, if you go back from 2008 to the Shelby before this one, they were kind
07:03 of big, powerful, fat, straight-line cars for dudes to take on on Saturday mornings
07:08 and cruise.
07:09 Yeah.
07:10 They weren't sports cars.
07:11 No, no, dude.
07:12 This is a return to form for the brand Shelby. It's just awesome.
07:15 Yeah.
07:16 And there's a reason we're driving the R instead of the regular Shelby, because the
07:19 GT350 is a Mustang with a great engine, but this one, there's a layer of magic.
07:26 And I remember the very first time I drove this thing, I exited our parking lot, second
07:30 gear, did a hard turn, and was like, "This is as good as a Porsche GT3."
07:35 Whoa.
07:36 Serious.
07:37 Yeah, no, I don't disagree.
07:38 And it's so easy in the moment when you're first driving a car to get so excited and
07:42 make ridiculous statements like that.
07:44 Sure.
07:45 But this is two years later that we're driving these cars, and we still feel this way about
07:49 it.
07:50 Right.
07:51 It's two years later, and I still think about it because I still want one.
07:53 So does everybody else.
07:54 That's true.
07:55 Look, the dealers, they were initially asking for $25,000 over a sticker, and they were
08:00 getting it because you know why? It's worth it.
08:03 That's great.
08:04 The only problem is, at $95,000 or $100,000 for a Mustang, you're getting these plastics.
08:10 Right.
08:11 And you could literally shave the hair off of your body with some of these plastics.
08:16 That's so sharp, you'll draw blood.
08:18 Yeah, and there's some greasy stuff down below.
08:20 And then the paint.
08:21 Like, I walked over to this car earlier and thought, "Oh, no, the poor thing's been in
08:24 an accident.
08:25 It's been repainted by a bad body shop."
08:26 It's just that much orange peel on it.
08:28 It's just a Mustang.
08:29 Yeah, but I mean, the way it drives, who cares about any of that?
08:32 Look, you're going to be rock chipping the hell out of this paint job every day because
08:36 you want to drive it like this.
08:37 You know, you want to be a maniac in it because it's so much fun to drive.
08:40 And it really did prove itself as a sports car.
08:43 There's a Miata-ness to this car in its ability to be a cohesive sports car.
08:48 It does everything well.
08:50 It's fun and engaging when you're not doing terrible things, but then it's amazing when
08:53 you are.
08:54 This is truly the non-muscle car Mustang.
08:56 Oh, yeah.
08:57 And the other thing is, it backs it up, right?
08:59 It's one thing to make a car like a Miata feel great everywhere, but it's kind of slow
09:03 and doesn't really have any bona fides.
09:06 This thing on Laguna Seca was quicker than a Ferrari 458 Italia.
09:11 I mean, my mind is still blown by that.
09:14 It really does have a lot going for it.
09:16 And that means that Camaro better be the best damn Camaro ever.
09:20 Ever.
09:21 Yeah.
09:23 Oh, yeah.
09:25 So, what do you think of the ZL1?
09:47 What do you think?
09:49 No, I think they gave us the wrong color.
09:51 Yes!
09:52 Look, this car looks so sinister in black, and it looks so, it's kind of awesome sporty
09:56 in red and in white.
09:58 It's like Mr. Generic.
10:00 It looks like any other Camaro.
10:01 Yeah.
10:02 Well, and speaking of any other Camaro, I think they gave us the wrong Camaro, too.
10:05 What do you mean?
10:06 ZL1 1LE.
10:07 Well, the ZL1 1LE was announced the day after I secured the loan for this car.
10:14 So, if you're watching this, it hasn't happened yet.
10:17 It's actually two months from right now, which is in the future, that the ZL1 1LE is available.
10:23 Okay.
10:24 I'm almost as confused by your statement as I am by the naming scheme on these Camaros.
10:29 I know because I'm in this business what a ZL1 1LE means.
10:34 Yeah.
10:35 But does GM actually think anyone else can follow all this?
10:38 Well, first of all, they should have just called it the ZL1 LE.
10:40 However, yeah, look, they're trying to sell to a new generation of car enthusiasts.
10:44 So, all the dudes that appreciate the old codes from the '60s, like the guy that knows
10:48 what an L88 is, he's either dead or his knees don't work and he can't drive stick anymore.
10:53 So, they should forget that.
10:54 And think about the competition, right?
10:55 Shelby, that's cool.
10:57 Hellcat.
10:58 Oh, Demon.
10:59 From now on, I say we refer to the ZL1 as the Satan Pony.
11:02 The My Little Satan Pony.
11:03 You can call it what you want as long as Satan Pony's in there.
11:06 I'm calling this slicing the Camaro pie a little bit too thin.
11:09 There are so many models of this car.
11:11 But speaking of alphanumeric nonsense, the LT4, which is the 6.2 liter supercharged V8 in this car,
11:17 they bottled it.
11:19 They bottled it up.
11:20 You can't hear it.
11:21 I mean, again, compared to the Shelby.
11:23 It's a silent car.
11:24 It is missing that anger.
11:26 I'm going to quote you.
11:27 What?
11:28 Why would you do that?
11:29 Well, it's usually a bad policy.
11:31 But here it makes sense.
11:32 Way back when, you said the LT4 is the best sounding production car engine in existence.
11:38 Oh, yeah.
11:39 I doubt.
11:40 I'm not sure I did.
11:41 That was one month before you drove the Voodoo Motor.
11:43 It was the best sounding engine in the Corvette.
11:45 It's really good.
11:46 But you know what my favorite part about this whole thing is?
11:48 So earlier you were super psyched.
11:50 You were all proud of yourself when you came over the radio.
11:52 Like, hey, I've been averaging 6.2 miles per gallon.
11:56 6.1.
11:57 But yeah, the Shelby was getting 6.1.
11:58 I was getting 3.9.
12:00 Like, that is 3.9 miles per gallon.
12:03 That's the beauty of a supercharger.
12:04 No lag and it's less efficient.
12:05 However--
12:06 Love this engine.
12:07 I mean, right now, you know, if you're an American, you live in a country where--here
12:10 in California where we have expensive gas, it's like $2.99 a gallon.
12:14 A bottle of water is $2.99.
12:16 Purified tap water.
12:17 Yeah, so who cares, you know?
12:19 And we should talk about how much more power this thing makes than the better named Voodoo
12:23 engine, right?
12:24 So 526 horsepower in the Shelby versus 650 in this mother.
12:28 You just don't ever have to--look, wheelspin in third at 70 miles an hour.
12:32 I mean, I was shocked the Shelby can't even get out of bed in the morning with that little torque.
12:35 Oh, my little pony disagrees.
12:38 My little Satan pony.
12:39 Good.
12:40 Sorry.
12:41 Actually, I think what the Voodoo should be a little bit more embarrassed about is how
12:44 quickly it revs or more importantly, doesn't.
12:46 Yeah.
12:47 Because with that flat plane crank, it should be really blippable, right?
12:50 The engine should spool up really quickly.
12:52 That's sort of the point of it.
12:53 And this actually responds--look, ready?
12:55 Blip, blip, like, blip down into first gear.
12:59 It responds so much more quickly than even the Voodoo does, which is amazing.
13:03 Yeah.
13:04 That's the difference between the two cars, really, is the engines.
13:07 The similarities are kind of crazy, right?
13:09 So Chevy and Ford both came up with very similar go-fast solutions, and they use the same suppliers.
13:14 You got big six-piston Brembos.
13:16 You got Recaro seats.
13:17 You got MagneRide suspension.
13:19 They're similarly sized.
13:21 They're similarly shaped.
13:22 That's crazy.
13:23 They are, like, within a fraction of an inch in every single exterior measurement, although
13:27 I got to say the Camaro looks four times as big until you park it next to the Mustang
13:31 and realize it's smaller.
13:32 You know, the Shelby is lighter.
13:34 You know, it's about 200 pounds lighter because this engine weighs a lot.
13:38 That supercharger adds a lot of weight, and so this is about 3,900 pounds to the Shelby's
13:42 about 3,700 pounds.
13:43 It's funny that it's only a 200-pound weight difference because, really, this car feels
13:47 about 1,000 pounds heavier, and it feels like that 1,000 pounds is all rubber that was sort
13:53 of melted and poured in, and it filled every little pore.
13:55 Everything is just a little bit less direct.
13:57 The car doesn't have quite the turn-in that the Ford does.
14:00 The shifter is great, but it's nowhere near as great as that.
14:03 There are benefits to that, too.
14:05 That car, I was flying all around it while you were driving.
14:07 It's just very difficult to be smooth.
14:09 It's sort of jerky.
14:10 This car is more polished.
14:11 This is a calmer, more relaxed car, which maybe that's what you want, but when you drop
14:14 in the supercharged LT4, you're putting 200 pounds in the worst place on top of the front
14:19 wheels.
14:20 These are big, heavy cars by sports car standards, right?
14:23 Yeah.
14:24 And one of the ways to cope with that and still have incredible body control and the
14:27 level of grip that these cars have is really stiffening the springs and the bars.
14:31 And as a result, this car, like a lot of other heavy cars, feels like it's on pogoes.
14:36 It's just kind of like...
14:37 There's a brittleness to the ride.
14:39 Yeah.
14:40 Oh, look, these things started their life as $25,000 rental cars.
14:43 Right.
14:44 If you're going to spend $65,000, $75,000, $85,000, $95,000 on a car that is effectively
14:50 a $25,000 rental car with a lot of options, it had better be special.
14:54 Forget special.
14:55 It had better be fast, which is why we're going to give these cars to Randy Post and
14:59 see what he can do with them on a track.
15:00 Cool.
15:01 Camaro ZL1 on a racetrack.
15:22 We've all driven it.
15:23 We all have our opinions.
15:25 My biggest thing is that compared to the Shelby, this drives like a luxury car out here.
15:30 It's just smooth and calm and controlled.
15:34 You just defined my entire goal as a driver.
15:37 The Mustang amplifies mistakes that you make when you're being unsmooth, and the Camaro
15:44 attenuates your screw-ups and makes you smoother.
15:47 The Camaro does make me feel like a good driver.
15:50 It's tough as a passenger, though, because I don't even care about what's going on back
15:53 there, but up front, there's nothing to hold on to.
15:56 If I could actually reach you, I would be your Hans device.
15:59 That's okay, because he's your airbag.
16:01 How does this car put power down like that?
16:06 It puts down power so well for 650 pound-feet of torque on a street tire.
16:11 That's nuts.
16:12 And it just goes.
16:14 But again, it's calm and controlled up here.
16:17 Normally on a track, I don't know, you're bouncing around more.
16:20 This is, again, I know it's a Camaro, but it feels like a luxury car.
16:24 If the Z01 has a shortcoming on the track, to me, it's that there's more weight on the
16:29 front of this than there is on the Mustang.
16:31 You can feel it.
16:32 And you can feel it.
16:33 As potent as this Camaro is, the Z01 is not the sweetest handling Camaro, right?
16:38 It's the SS1LE.
16:40 Oh, well, wait a minute, Johnny.
16:41 But God, it still handles so well.
16:44 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
16:45 You're talking about not the sweetest of some of the sweetest handling cars there are.
16:49 I'm just saying.
16:50 Whereas the Shelby R is the sweetest handling Mustang in recorded history.
16:55 By far.
16:56 Yeah.
16:57 All right, well, before we're both covered in vomit, maybe we should bring this thing in.
17:00 Okay.
17:02 All right.
17:04 [00:01:15] [silence]
17:11 [00:01:37]
17:18 [00:02:00]
17:25 [00:02:22]
17:32 [00:02:29]
17:39 [00:02:36]
17:46 [00:02:42]
17:53 [00:02:50]
17:59 [00:02:55]
18:06 [00:03:00]
18:13 [00:03:10]
18:21 [00:03:22]
18:29 [00:03:29]
18:38 Well, Randy, I'm a little shocked.
18:41 I thought the vector between the ZL1 and this would be huge.
18:44 My guess was a second and a half faster in the ZL1.
18:47 So in other words, the ZL1 felt a second and a half faster, but really it's only like less
18:52 than four tenths quicker, which to me says a couple of things.
18:56 First of all, why does the Shelby feel slow to you?
18:59 And number two, why is it so fast in reality?
19:02 It's so well balanced and it does not feel like a 3,700 pound car.
19:08 Right.
19:09 It hides that weight really well.
19:10 And the torque makes it feel slower.
19:13 That Camaro ZL1 has so much torque and that's what you feel right in your chest when you
19:18 get on the gas.
19:19 A 650 horsepower car versus a 526 horsepower car, less than a second difference.
19:25 Like how is this making it up?
19:27 Because it is more agile.
19:28 That's its only advantage.
19:30 The one thing I noticed from the passenger seat is how much stiffer this thing is than
19:34 the Camaro.
19:35 Is that helping or hurting?
19:37 Yes.
19:39 Actually, most of that is just comfort, Johnny.
19:42 The stiffness is not as comfortable, but it doesn't seem to affect the car's grip.
19:47 The Mustang still sticks really well, even on the bumps.
19:51 This is a sports car.
19:52 It's got more sports car in it.
19:54 Actually, I love the ZL1.
19:56 Yeah.
19:57 But it's more muscle car that works.
19:59 This is one of those head to head.
20:01 How can you go wrong?
20:03 It's a tough one, Johnny.
20:05 I would hate to have to be you and Jason and pick a winner.
20:08 Man, I'm glad I'm not Randy.
20:10 No kidding.
20:11 For setting a lap time here, these things are so fast.
20:14 I wouldn't want to do it.
20:15 They're crazy.
20:16 I mean, think about this.
20:17 The pony car has evolved to the point where these two things are capable of humbling most
20:21 of the super cars on earth.
20:23 It's just weird.
20:25 They're both excellent.
20:26 However, we're not in the everyone's a winner.
20:28 It's a tie game.
20:29 One of them's a loser.
20:31 And by my scorecard, looks better.
20:34 A little bit.
20:35 Sounds better.
20:36 A lot of it.
20:37 Feels better.
20:38 Yeah.
20:39 Versus performs better.
20:40 Yeah.
20:41 And even if you throw in does stupid things better, like drifts and burnouts, it's still
20:45 three to two.
20:46 Right.
20:47 And this Mustang's already two years old.
20:49 Ford hasn't bothered to touch it because it doesn't really need anything.
20:51 And GM's about to touch this.
20:53 They're going to make a 1LE version of the ZL1, and it'll probably have more capability.
20:58 But I don't want it to have more capability.
21:00 What I want is a little bit more drama.
21:02 Like when you're doing really stupid things in this car, it's amazing.
21:05 It's awesome.
21:06 When you're just driving it normally, it's just kind of a--
21:08 It's a car.
21:09 It's a car.
21:10 It's a regular car.
21:11 This thing, doesn't matter what you're doing, it's nuts.
21:13 I'm getting donuts!
21:14 Yeah, woo-hoo!
21:15 You start it in the morning, and it's enough.
21:16 That's awesome.
21:17 And for that reason alone, it's my choice.
21:19 That's not only your choice, man.
21:21 It's mine too.
21:22 Yes.
21:23 The winner of this head-to-head is the Ford Shelby GT350R.
21:27 It's the best Mustang ever.
21:30 What?
21:31 That old broad finally kicked the bucket?
21:33 I sold her double wide, bought me a new Camaro, and it lost again?
21:37 Damn it!
21:42 And Chewbacca--
21:43 [roaring]
21:54 (explosion)