Wondering if a Miata can beat a Hellcat? Then this Head 2 Head presented by Tire Rack is for you. This is an epic battle between two of the best sports cars on sale today. Yep
Category
🚗
MotorTranscript
00:00 Oh my god, bring your Ferrari, your Lamborghini, your Koenigsegg, your Bugatti, there is no
00:07 other car I would rather be driving right now on this road.
00:11 And by the way, nothing would keep up with this.
00:14 If you buy a car that's more powerful and more capable than this, you're compensizing.
00:21 So nice to like get back into a real sports car.
00:24 You just forget that you know driving is joy.
00:27 If this car does nothing else, it reminds you that driving is supposed to be fun.
00:32 This has to be the best sports car in the world.
00:35 [MUSIC]
00:46 [LAUGH]
00:48 [MUSIC]
00:58 [MUSIC]
01:08 Unless you've been living under a rock since about 1990, you know that this is a Mazda Miata.
01:27 And if you're laughing because I'm having so much fun in it, it's because you've never
01:31 driven one.
01:33 This is the 2017 Miata RF, and what's new about it?
01:37 The roof.
01:38 For the very first time, the Miata has a retractable, Target-y hardtop.
01:43 And I don't like that it gained 120 pounds.
01:45 I don't like that you can't put the roof down while you're driving, but I do love that they
01:50 fixed the flop.
01:51 This generation Miata has suspension that flops over in the corners, and you just can't
01:56 trust the rear end, until now.
02:00 This Miata almost won Best Driver's Car and Car of the Year when it came out.
02:05 If it had had this suspension tuning, I would argue that it would have won Car of the Year
02:10 and Best Driver's Car, and then it would have gone on to win SUV of the Year, Truck of the
02:15 Year, and Person of the Year.
02:17 In fact, I would go so far as to say it would have won the best sports car of all time.
02:26 I'm driving the Scion FR...
02:28 No, actually that's out of production.
02:30 I'm driving the Subaru BRZ.
02:33 This is the Toyota.
02:34 I'm driving the Toyota GT86.
02:35 I mean, in this country, we call it the Toyota 86, and it's awesome.
02:41 Why do they call it 86?
02:43 A hundred years ago, they made a Corolla 2-door.
02:46 The chassis code was the AE86, and some dude in Japan loved drifting it, so born was this
02:51 legend of the 86 life.
02:53 Toyota, they've done such a great job of managing their sports car heritage.
02:57 There's no Celica.
02:58 There's no Supra.
03:00 They went back and said, "Oh, let's just call it the 86."
03:03 Look, it is a return to form basic throwback sports car.
03:07 Front engine, rear wheel drive, super light, manual transmission, handbrake.
03:10 It's got everything you need.
03:13 What's important though is that they've radically improved this car.
03:16 They've added five.
03:17 Count that, one, two, three, four, five more horsepower.
03:20 Snicker all you want, but what they've really done is a whole bunch of little changes that
03:24 when taken together equals a much improved sports car.
03:31 For those of you sitting at home saying, "My mom's minivan's faster than that thing."
03:36 Kid, you don't understand driving.
03:38 Can you explain to me why the front of this car looks like a jack-o-lantern in December?
03:58 That's not even the worst part of the car.
04:00 The BRZ, the FR-S, they're all missed opportunities.
04:04 What I mean by that is when you dream about becoming a car designer, you typically start
04:08 in third grade and you draw an E-type, a beautiful sports car.
04:12 It's got a long front end, a short deck, and two doors.
04:16 Everyone dreams about, and this is what you do.
04:19 These guys had a great start because that flat engine is so low.
04:22 They had a really low hood.
04:23 That's the hardest part on a sports car.
04:25 If you squint and cover your eyes with a bandana and turn around and look the other direction,
04:29 it's almost a little bit Aston Martin in its proportions.
04:32 But only because it's front engine, rear wheel drive, and two doors.
04:36 It's just ugh.
04:37 But really what it is is it's indicative of a problem in Japanese design generally, and
04:42 Toyota specifically, it's at a very low M. I mean, look at Lexus.
04:46 Lexus?
04:47 What's Mazda's excuse?
04:48 Good point, because Mazda generally has great design, but the front of this thing, I mean,
04:54 first of all, the peaks of the fenders need to be over the center of the wheel.
04:58 Otherwise, the car looks like it's drooping.
05:00 It's melted.
05:01 That was the biggest problem with the Miata until this.
05:04 It was.
05:05 Black plastic, misshapen pieces of glass, textures, cut lines, and lest we forget, tail
05:10 lights that are one foot too close together.
05:13 This is a mess.
05:14 What's the inspiration behind this, right?
05:16 You want it to look like something, and this is like a Nissan Z and a Triumph GT6.
05:22 Crashed into each other, and this is the carnage.
05:25 Yeah.
05:26 I mean, remember the Mini Coupe?
05:27 That thing that looks like it had a backwards baseball hat on?
05:29 I mean, this is now almost weirder looking, but when it's down, it's cool.
05:33 Check this out.
05:34 Okay.
05:35 Hang on.
05:36 Okay.
05:37 Okay, already you could have put this soft top down in the regular Miata.
05:40 Oh, a hundred times.
05:41 I don't mind the speed of lowering this, but it's that you have to be going six miles an
05:45 hour or less to drop this thing down.
05:47 The regular Miata, you can drop the top at 80.
05:49 30.
05:50 80.
05:51 That's a parachute at 80.
05:52 I am never lending you one of my cars.
05:53 It's the best.
05:54 That said, I do like Targas.
05:55 I mean, it's very cool.
05:56 Yeah, it's a big, wide sunroof.
05:57 Put this thing up and let's go.
05:58 Also, by the way, shouldn't they have just called it a Miata Targa?
06:01 But you know, in the US, this isn't even a Miata.
06:04 It's the MX-5 RF.
06:05 And I think they did RF because they're like, "It's a roof and you lose part of it.
06:10 You lose the O's.
06:11 It's the RF."
06:12 But those motors make the cutest little sounds.
06:14 Waste of time.
06:15 Yeah, luckily it drives great.
06:20 Man, you know, with me and you in this thing, it is not quick.
06:28 No.
06:29 It is also not big.
06:30 Stay on your side.
06:33 It's not really all that fun over here.
06:34 I've got to say, it's phenomenal from over here.
06:37 This thing could be fun in an underground parking garage turned off.
06:41 And, you know, unlike that Scion, the Subaru.
06:44 No, the Toyota.
06:46 You know, 10/10, like that's one of the purest sports car experiences you can have.
06:51 But we're going like 4 or 5/10 right now.
06:54 I figure cars can feel like this.
06:56 We've been driving all those heavyweights and like this thing is just wiggling its hips.
07:00 It's what happens when you design and tune a car for enjoyment rather than outright capability.
07:05 Look at this long right-hand sweeper, right?
07:08 You could put sticky tires on this car and generate, I don't know, 1.1 G's.
07:12 But you wouldn't.
07:13 You wouldn't go that fast because you can't see that far around the corner.
07:17 This thing, you're able to maximize all the meager amounts of grips that are there, which
07:21 means you get to play at the limit and the car actually has body roll and the suspension
07:26 moves around and you've got little tiny tires and little tiny brakes.
07:29 And so all of those tingles come through.
07:31 And you bring up a great point.
07:33 Body roll is actually a good thing.
07:34 It is.
07:35 Too much body roll or sloppy body roll is not a good thing.
07:37 But the car telling you what it's doing.
07:40 And like, can we talk about the steering for a second?
07:42 Anybody can make precise steering these days, I'm convinced.
07:44 But what this can do is I just went over a crack in the road and it was on the right
07:48 side.
07:49 How do I know that?
07:50 Because the steering wheel just communicated that to me.
07:53 And it's a lost and dying art.
07:55 Well, and the funny thing is this car is actually quite a bit slower than the regular soft top
07:59 because it weighs 120 pounds more.
08:01 But it's also got retuned suspension.
08:03 So you come in and roll with the car and you manage the weight.
08:07 And all of that is like dancing.
08:08 Yeah.
08:09 It feels like you're skiing.
08:10 You know, you really get your hips going back and forth.
08:13 It's the sensation of lots of good movement with lots of control.
08:16 Right.
08:17 It's just rare.
08:18 Normally you'll have a lot of control and the car is stiff and flat.
08:21 You don't feel anything.
08:22 It's numb.
08:23 Or you used to have bad where you're flopping everywhere and you have no control.
08:27 This is the combo of the two.
08:29 It's just so awesome.
08:30 And I'm convinced that if you're in a car that was a lot more capable, you wouldn't
08:34 necessarily brake any harder.
08:36 You definitely wouldn't be going around these corners any more quickly because you can't
08:40 see.
08:41 And the only difference is that your peak speeds between the corners would be that much
08:45 higher, which means your speeding ticket will be that much more expensive.
08:50 This car, what do you see?
08:51 67, 69 miles an hour in between corners in a 55 zone.
08:55 You're not getting the ticket and yet your foot on the floor, mile after mile after mile,
09:00 trying your hardest, having the most fun.
09:02 Just all of the fun with none of the drawbacks.
09:07 Like a second ago I was sort of on team Subaru, but Toyota.
09:13 I think this one would be the winner.
09:15 Well before we crown that a winner, I need to get into that updated one and then we can
09:19 just jump back in this and declare it the winner.
09:21 That works for me.
09:24 Okay.
09:25 Hi there.
09:26 Hey.
09:27 Hey.
09:28 So far away.
09:34 It's an actual human sized car.
09:37 It's got a back seat and a trunk.
09:39 That's amazing.
09:40 You know what else it has?
09:41 Huh?
09:42 A telescoping steering wheel so I can reach the wheel.
09:44 You can sit the way you want to sit.
09:46 What a novel concept.
09:47 And it rides better than the Miata and it's quieter than the Miata.
09:51 Uh, yeah.
09:52 And you know, forget all that nonsense.
09:54 It's got 40 more horsepower than the Miata.
09:57 Yes.
09:58 Listen to those horses roar.
10:00 This sounds like two garbage trucks arm wrestling in a dumpster.
10:04 Dump trucks are too big.
10:05 It's smaller.
10:06 It's like two drain disposals, one gargling on marbles and the other one on silverware.
10:12 Aston Martin, AMG, they have sound departments.
10:15 Fuji Heavy Industries does not.
10:17 They make dump trucks.
10:20 But I mean, so what?
10:21 It doesn't sound that great, you know, but God, it's, I mean.
10:24 There were so many little things that used to bother me about the BRZ.
10:27 They fixed them.
10:28 86.
10:29 This is an 86.
10:30 FRS 86, whatever.
10:31 They fixed a lot of them.
10:32 The gearing is a lot shorter now.
10:34 That's probably the biggest fix.
10:35 Yes, they added a little more power, but this motor has no torque, right?
10:38 So when you're like, any downshift, no torque.
10:42 And it's so annoying.
10:45 Now it's pretty snick, snick, snick.
10:46 It's much better.
10:47 And it still has that dead spot after a shift where you get on the gas and it pulls for
10:52 a second and pulls again.
10:53 Yeah, but no car's perfect.
10:54 It's better.
10:55 It's so much better.
10:56 The steering is more precise and weighted more accurately.
10:58 And the back end is planted better.
11:00 That's a great point.
11:01 So it used to be that the Zion, the FRS, right, was like the drifty one for the kids, for
11:06 Fast and Furious.
11:07 And the BRZ was like tame and tied down and serious.
11:11 This, this splits the difference.
11:12 So you can have a little bit of fun, but you can still set a lap if you need to.
11:18 The only problem is that with more rear grip, the front tires tend to go away a little bit
11:23 more.
11:24 And in the corners they get hot and it just turns into an understeer.
11:28 Yeah, but pretty good for a Prius tire.
11:30 That's another thing we need to talk about here.
11:32 These aren't Prius tires.
11:33 They're not?
11:34 No, you cannot get a W rated summer tire on a Prius anywhere in North America.
11:39 Can you get them in Europe?
11:41 I don't know.
11:42 Prius tire.
11:43 Anyways.
11:44 Okay.
11:45 The other thing is, by the way, this is not a failure.
11:47 I keep reading on the internet, "Oh, the BRZ is a total failure and it's not selling."
11:51 Bull!
11:52 It's not selling at full capacity and the people who buy them love them.
11:55 Because why?
11:56 This!
11:57 It's epic!
11:58 That just goes to reinforce the point that everybody knows just because it's on Twitter
12:02 doesn't mean it's true.
12:03 That's true.
12:04 Right?
12:05 Just as you said, if you buy this car and you take it here and you beat on it like this,
12:09 you're going to love it.
12:10 And everyone who owns this knows that.
12:12 I'm hammering this back road and I got to say, this is every bit as good as that Miata.
12:18 Oh, so you're saying we might have a tie.
12:21 I'm not saying that, but I don't know.
12:23 Well, what I think you're actually saying is we're going to have to go visit our buddy
12:28 Randy Pope on a racetrack to settle this one.
12:30 I wasn't saying that, but it's a good idea.
12:32 Cool.
12:33 Well, we'll do it first thing tomorrow morning, bright and early.
12:35 Can we do it later?
12:36 You can sleep when you're dead, Jason.
12:38 First thing tomorrow morning.
12:43 The next morning while Johnny was sleeping, Randy and I went out to warm up the tires.
12:48 And kept warming them up and kept warming them up and then had to replace them.
12:54 And then Randy did his magic hot laps.
12:55 And we're going to do it.
13:23 [00:01:36] [silence]
13:49 [00:02:00]
14:03 [00:02:30]
14:31 About 13 hundredths of a second separate these two cars at Streets of Willow.
14:35 But wait, there's more.
14:37 They swap positions for the lead five times during that lap.
14:41 Imagine how much fun Formula One would be if all the cars passed each other five times
14:45 a lap.
14:46 Yeah, man, any car, doesn't matter what.
14:48 As soon as you get in there, you got to just hold the pedal to the ground for three seconds.
14:52 You got to show it to who's boss.
14:53 You have to make the car respect you.
14:55 There is this thing, and I know you're going to think it's strange and I'm weird.
14:59 In between foot off the gas and foot on the floor.
15:02 Go back to Russia, you commie.
15:03 Your poor wife.
15:04 Teach her who's boss.
15:05 Oh, hey, it's Randy.
15:06 I think he needs another cup of coffee.
15:10 I just like how much fun he's having.
15:13 That car is great.
15:14 I love these things.
15:15 They're like, they're like fighter planes, not the heavy bombers, you know?
15:19 They're amazing.
15:20 Most fun you can have in a car.
15:21 It's just like an extension of the body.
15:24 It's a dance.
15:25 I'm steering like this.
15:27 One of them's a tenth of a second quicker than the other, like it matters.
15:30 But do you have one you prefer here on the track?
15:32 Well, the BRZ has got less.
15:35 The FRS 86.
15:36 86.
15:37 86.
15:38 86.
15:39 86.
15:40 It's got a lot less body roll.
15:41 I like the feeling of control that goes with that.
15:43 It's got more power, pulls better at high RPM, good strong brake pedal.
15:48 It just has a sense of control.
15:50 And the Miata has a lighter, quicker feel.
15:53 You can change direction quicker.
15:56 It's so willing and I like that.
15:57 It's great.
15:58 It's great.
15:59 So this is sort of the problem we were having yesterday was whichever car we drove was the
16:02 better car.
16:03 Whichever one I drove last, that's my favorite.
16:06 The Miata is better behaved on bumps.
16:09 The 86 can get more upset, get sort of a snap oversteer.
16:13 I had a real tricky run through the kink there on my hot laps, whereas the Miata was just
16:18 planted.
16:19 But, you know, my problem with both these cars, and they're great fun, they really are, but
16:23 they suffer from Caymanism.
16:24 What is that?
16:25 Caymanism.
16:26 That's when a manufacturer won't give the car the power it deserves.
16:29 Oh, here we go again.
16:31 No, listen to me.
16:32 We know Miata's working on turbocharged engines.
16:34 They're going to do a new Speed 3.
16:36 They'll never turbocharge this.
16:38 Good.
16:39 The BRZ thing over there, that engine is the WRX engine with the turbo.
16:42 Yeah, why not?
16:43 And they won't put it in that car.
16:44 Why would you just keep it natural?
16:46 More power without any additional control is worthless.
16:50 Yeah, but control without enough power is boring.
16:54 You want to tell me either of these cars is boring?
16:55 No, not at all.
16:56 Thank you.
16:57 But I was going to make the point that, like, you know, too much power with no control,
17:00 that's kind of fun.
17:03 Your poor wife.
17:04 Then you just wind up with a Hellcat.
17:06 Yes!
17:07 Yes!
17:08 No, no!
17:09 Yes!
17:10 Okay, what I want to see is you in a 707 horsepower Hellcat trying to beat Randy's lap time in
17:14 either of these two cars.
17:16 Beat?
17:17 I'll crush it.
17:18 Are we recording this?
17:20 Let's do it!
17:21 Let me put this in perspective for a second.
17:27 If you add up all the horsepower that the Miata makes, plus the horsepower that the
17:32 BRZ makes.
17:33 86.
17:34 Plus the horsepower that another Miata makes and another FR-S makes.
17:39 86.
17:40 It's about the same horsepower as that stupid Hellcat.
17:44 Okay?
17:45 155 horsepower out of the Miata is barely enough to turn the supercharger on that V8.
17:51 It is the definition of power and stupidity.
17:55 And yet, he's going to be slower than you.
17:57 I don't know.
17:59 That Hellcat's three and a half seconds faster in a quarter mile.
18:02 I mean, from here to there, three and a half seconds.
18:05 Yeah, and then there to there when the road turns, he'll lose six because that's like
18:08 a lazy boy with a jet pack on it.
18:10 Dumbest car ever.
18:11 The Miata does scamper like a puppy.
18:13 You about ready for this, Johnny?
18:16 I'm mentally ready.
18:18 I think physically, though, I got to warm up the tires a little bit.
18:20 Of course he does.
18:21 You know, Johnny's really good at that.
18:22 You know that's going to help his lap time a lot.
18:33 Is that the best burnout car ever?
18:35 Yeah.
18:36 I said it's dumb, but what I meant by that is it's the best burnout car ever.
18:40 As if the rear end of that car wasn't going to be hard enough to control, now it has melted
18:44 rear tires.
18:45 Smart, Johnny.
18:46 We'll be timing you, so this is your time lap.
18:50 Will he come onto the straight sideways?
18:52 Wow, no, he's really mature.
18:54 Okay, now I have three seconds on the Miata.
18:59 Okay, net weight, two, one, zero.
19:01 Not anymore.
19:02 Yeah, Miata's in front of me.
19:05 He was on the brakes at approximately the point where you still had four seconds of
19:09 throttle left in the Miata.
19:11 He's also not using a lot of the racetrack.
19:13 Well, the car is so big, it takes up most of the racetrack standing still.
19:17 Problem is, this racetrack has too many corners.
19:20 Yeah, Hellcat's great in a straight line.
19:22 This is like a lazy boy strapped to a jet pack.
19:29 Stupid.
19:30 Stupidest car ever.
19:31 I kind of love it, but stupid.
19:33 Well, if nothing else, this proves that the Hellcat is the antithesis of the Miata.
19:39 Of course, I'm lucky I get to hang out with race car drivers like Randy Pope all the time.
19:44 You learn a lot if you really pay attention and listen to them.
19:48 What I've learned over the years is you really got to get your excuses in order before you
19:53 come in.
19:54 You know, I can't see him, but I can see the ozone cloud forming above him.
19:59 There's a nice hole in the layer.
20:00 A hole in the ozone.
20:01 Exactly.
20:02 Where is he?
20:03 Oh, God, he's coming quick.
20:04 Look at that.
20:05 He's being very, very careful, Jason.
20:06 Oh, boy.
20:07 That's not a quick way to go.
20:08 I think I lost.
20:32 149.4.
20:33 There it is.
20:34 140.79.
20:35 All right.
20:36 Tell me the inevitable.
20:37 Johnny, you are 10 seconds slower with four and a half times as much power.
20:42 Oh, that's mean.
20:43 Are you saying a guy who's in the SCCA Hall of Fame could beat little old me?
20:48 He's old.
20:49 Roger Penske?
20:50 The other thing is, you know, he did not do two drifts during his lap, which I did.
20:57 So I don't know.
20:58 I think it's hard to actually declare a winner.
21:00 Plus, you know, what were my excuses?
21:03 Tires are old and cold.
21:04 The track's too cold.
21:05 The sun's in the wrong position.
21:08 Mercury's in retrograde.
21:09 So, you know, really, I probably tied him.
21:12 Yeah.
21:13 The only thing this proves is for the same amount of money as that stupid Hellcat, you
21:17 could buy a BRZ and a Miata and have $10,000 left over to have Randy Pope teach you how
21:23 to drive it.
21:24 Nah, but can you really put a price on burnouts?
21:28 $289 a piece for the rear tires.
21:30 Yes.
21:31 A month.
21:32 A week, a minute, nothing.
21:33 Oh, that's all right.
21:34 Oh, that's so dumb.
21:38 That race wasn't faked.
21:39 Johnny actually did try, and he drives fast cars for a living.
21:43 Yet the 707-horsepower beast was literally 10 seconds behind a pair of sports cars that
21:49 are universally criticized for needing more power.
21:53 Laugh at these cars all you like, but you won't be laughing as hard as the person driving
21:57 one of them.
21:58 These are sports cars from a better day, when sports cars made you glad to be alive.
22:03 Picking a winner was tough.
22:05 We favored whichever car we got out of last until we drove them to work.
22:09 On normal roads at normal speeds, it's the Miata that turns drudgery into comedy, and
22:14 it puts the 86 in second place.
22:15 [MUSIC PLAYING]
22:34 (explosion)