On this episode of Head 2 Head presented by Tire Rack
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MotorTranscript
00:00 Hi there!
00:01 This is a tale of two GT-Rs.
00:03 In the white corner, the Nismo,
00:05 and in the green corner, the AMG.
00:08 - Hey Johnny, I got a question.
00:09 - Yeah.
00:10 - How could two cars that are so different
00:12 end up with the exact same name?
00:14 I mean, didn't Nissan copyright GT-R?
00:17 - Apparently not.
00:18 And I got a question.
00:20 Which one of these two track-focused monsters is the best?
00:24 - The Racing Line!
00:25 - Wrong show.
00:27 There's only one way to find out.
00:30 (upbeat music)
00:34 (car engine revving)
00:37 (laughing)
00:39 (upbeat music)
00:41 (dramatic music)
00:56 (dramatic music)
00:58 (upbeat music)
01:08 - You know Johnny,
01:11 maybe these cars aren't all that different after all.
01:14 - How do you mean?
01:14 - I mean, I'm thinking they've both got front engines.
01:16 - Yeah.
01:17 - They're both V configuration.
01:18 - Uh-huh.
01:19 - They've both got two turbos.
01:21 - Uh-huh.
01:21 - One's 600 horse.
01:23 - Uh-huh.
01:23 - One's 577.
01:24 - It's the same thing.
01:25 - One's 3.8 liters.
01:27 - Yeah.
01:27 - One's four liter.
01:28 - It's true.
01:29 - There's a pattern here.
01:30 - Yeah.
01:31 - They both go to a rear transaxle that's a dual clutch.
01:34 They've both got carbon fiber wings.
01:36 - Uh-huh.
01:37 - They've both got exotic exhaust systems.
01:39 There's really only one thing that's all that different.
01:42 Two wheel drive, all wheel drive.
01:45 - Well, I can think of a couple other things.
01:46 For instance, all wheel steering versus two wheel steering,
01:49 plus a street tire versus a race compound tire.
01:52 This car is about 200 pounds lighter than that car.
01:54 And this is the size of a barn.
01:57 But you're right, they're more similar
01:58 than they are different.
01:59 But my favorite similarity is actually the names.
02:02 And I'm not talking GTR, I'm talking Godzilla
02:05 versus the Beast from the Green Hell, right?
02:09 These cars have nicknames
02:10 because people are passionate about them.
02:11 You don't give nicknames
02:12 to things you aren't passionate about.
02:14 No one's ever given a nickname to a Sentra.
02:16 No one's ever given a nickname to a Mercedes B-Class.
02:18 But Godzilla and the Beast from Green Hell, that's awesome.
02:22 These are the cars you wanna be driving.
02:24 - Yeah, and they're fast cars.
02:26 - Oh yeah, on the Nürburgring,
02:28 seven minutes, eight seconds, seven minutes, 10 seconds.
02:31 - Those are amazing times.
02:32 But two seconds difference over a 13 mile road course,
02:36 that's nothing.
02:37 - Right, one driver was having a bad day.
02:39 Actually, one driver was probably slightly better
02:41 than the other driver.
02:41 There's your two seconds, you know?
02:44 - Are we gonna keep talking about driving?
02:45 Are we gonna actually drive these things?
02:47 - Which one do you want?
02:48 - Godzilla!
02:50 - Age before beauty.
02:51 I was pointing at the green car.
02:54 (car engine revving)
02:57 - Wee!
03:18 People knock this car these days for being old,
03:22 but man, does it move still!
03:26 - The car is so fast that it's still as fast as anything
03:29 down a windy, bumpy road, and you're way faster.
03:32 - And, you know, here's the other thing.
03:33 So this car's been in production since 2009.
03:36 That AMG, it's since 2015, so it's like,
03:39 oh, it's a two year old car versus an eight year old car.
03:41 But I know something you don't,
03:42 which is that the body in white of that AMG,
03:46 that's the old SLS glowing,
03:48 which has been in production since 2010.
03:51 They just cut 50 millimeters out of the wheel base.
03:53 So really, that car's seven years old.
03:55 This one's eight years old.
03:56 It's a good matchup.
03:58 And I mean, it's still a GTR!
04:00 - Yeah, this car's performance is in its function.
04:05 It's not a big winner in terms of its form.
04:08 - Sure, sure, sure.
04:09 But I mean, like the all-wheel drive.
04:11 You can just blast off corners.
04:12 - Is it the best all-wheel drive system
04:16 you've ever driven on a street car?
04:18 - I mean, there's like the Porsche Turbo.
04:20 - Yeah, that's good too.
04:21 - That's pretty good.
04:22 But this is right there in terms of putting the power down.
04:24 - Yeah, the all-wheel drive system.
04:26 I'm not talking about the shift program.
04:28 - No, no, no, no.
04:29 Just putting the power down to all four wheels,
04:32 always having traction, always having forward go.
04:35 - You know this car's not gonna let you down.
04:37 You get in the middle of a tight corner, a low gear,
04:39 gas it, and you just know it's gonna hook up and go.
04:43 - Right, and it doesn't really matter
04:45 what the road surface is.
04:46 This thing eats up the bumps.
04:48 It just soaks 'em up.
04:50 - That's part of the reason why it's good at the Nurburgring.
04:53 - And I think part of it, so one of the changes they made
04:55 for the 2017 model year Nismo
04:58 was they stiffened the body structure.
05:00 - I can feel it.
05:01 This car is solid.
05:02 - Instead of the car flexing,
05:04 it lets the suspension do all the work,
05:06 so the geometry stays true.
05:08 - Gives the car a feeling of quality and durability too.
05:11 - You know, look, GTRs have always ridden terribly, right?
05:14 They were the garbage truck of supercars
05:16 in terms of ride quality.
05:17 This one's actually better.
05:19 It's actually, I think the seats are better.
05:20 It's not as bad of a ride as I remember
05:23 in GTRs previously.
05:25 Still not great, but the result is you can go over
05:28 any kind of pavement at a million miles an hour.
05:30 - You can.
05:31 That's one of the strong points of a GTR.
05:34 - So I think we can say without hesitation,
05:37 this new 2017 Nismo, best GTR ever.
05:41 Best Nissan GTR.
05:42 - Yep.
05:44 - But it's still got some weak points.
05:45 - Lag, Johnny.
05:46 - Yeah.
05:47 - Lag, when I drive it on the street especially,
05:50 I get into power and I can count the seconds.
05:53 The tranny doesn't downshift enough.
05:55 And then it's a combination of turbo lag
05:58 and that high RPM, the peaky power band.
06:01 - It's embarrassing 'cause some like, you know,
06:02 Nissan Rogue is leaving you for dead off the line
06:05 and you're in Godzilla and it's not moving.
06:08 - Yeah, that's CVT transmission.
06:10 - Damn that.
06:11 The other thing though, you know,
06:12 you mentioned the power band.
06:13 So this thing makes max torque at about
06:16 3600 to 5600 RPMs.
06:18 - Yep.
06:19 - Yeah, this tiny little window,
06:20 and the engine revs quick.
06:21 So you've gotta be shifting.
06:23 - It's like a 125cc motocrosser.
06:26 You row it around with the shift levers.
06:28 - I'll have to take your word for that, but yeah.
06:30 - Although I like the paddles.
06:32 - Oh, the paddles are great, yeah.
06:34 But then the other problem this car has is brakes.
06:38 - I want more brakes, Johnny.
06:41 - Yeah, right.
06:42 - Pedal gets soft, doesn't have enough bite
06:44 for a supercar in this price range.
06:47 - This is $178,000 car.
06:49 - Yeah.
06:50 - This is no longer a $73,000 entry level bargain supercar.
06:55 This is playing with the big boy.
06:56 I could buy this or a Porsche Turbo S
06:58 and that Turbo S has carbon ceramics.
07:01 - Yep.
07:02 - For 180 grand, give me carbon ceramics.
07:04 - Yeah, but despite those negatives,
07:14 it's still got it.
07:15 - Oh, look, what's the car we keep referencing?
07:18 The 911 Turbo S, right?
07:20 One of the greatest supercars the world has ever seen.
07:22 And maybe that's as quick.
07:24 And maybe, you know what I mean?
07:26 - Good point, and it's been updated three times
07:28 since this came out.
07:29 - Yeah.
07:29 - When I was at Pike's Peak, I was in a GTR
07:36 and I was racing a 911 Turbo S.
07:39 And on a practice day, I was going so great
07:42 and he turned the exact same time to the 10th,
07:47 three runs in a row.
07:48 - That's how good the GTR is, right?
07:50 I mean, it's an amazing car.
07:52 I just wish it didn't look so funny.
07:54 Yeah, you know, I think there's a reason
08:00 why there aren't other cars that look like this GTR.
08:04 - When it came out, Johnny,
08:05 people didn't notice it because of how it looked.
08:07 - Right.
08:08 - What happened with the GTR was,
08:09 it was like the first real supercar of the modern era.
08:12 And it got a great rep.
08:14 And like we've seen today, people notice it.
08:16 - But it's still strange looking, right?
08:18 - It doesn't set any new standards in styling.
08:21 It's not shapely.
08:23 - And then you could say, okay,
08:24 it kind of had its own thing going on.
08:26 And somebody got the bright idea and said,
08:27 "All Nissans have to look like Nissans."
08:28 So they then took the corporate face
08:30 and grafted it onto the GTR.
08:32 And I think it lost something in that transition, you know?
08:35 - Well, this is the Nismo though.
08:37 So it's got the cool carbon fiber stuff,
08:39 the front air dam, the side skirts,
08:43 a wing that looks like a real race wing to me.
08:45 I think that wing will actually generate downforce.
08:47 - I agree, but it's just not traditionally beautiful.
08:51 I mean, you know what it is?
08:53 This thing.
08:53 - Oh man.
08:54 - AMG GTR.
08:55 So first of all, classic proportions, right?
08:57 Long hood, short deck,
09:00 the roof's about twice as high as the tires.
09:01 Like it just absolutely nails the way
09:04 a sports car is supposed to look.
09:05 And then for the GTR, what did they do different?
09:07 They made it wider, right?
09:09 The front track's wider, so you flare the fenders.
09:11 They make the rear track bigger, so they widen it,
09:13 you know, just like, "Oh, it looks so cool."
09:15 - And the grill.
09:17 I love the grill.
09:18 It says Mercedes race car.
09:20 - Yeah, yeah.
09:21 - 'Cause it looks like the Carrera Panamericana
09:22 back in 1952.
09:23 - You might like the front though,
09:24 but my favorite part is the rear.
09:27 I mean, come on.
09:28 - You like big butts and you cannot lie.
09:30 - Well, I'm not gonna discriminate, man.
09:31 I like them all.
09:32 But my favorite rear end on a car
09:34 has long been the Porsche 928.
09:36 And I think the AMG GT does it better, you know?
09:40 And then now this one, it's got the vents
09:42 to cool the brakes and it's got the holes for the exhaust
09:45 and the weird quad pipes and the diffuser.
09:47 It's just, ah!
09:48 If there's any critique of the AMG though,
09:50 it's on the sills.
09:51 They stick out and if they could just tuck it under
09:54 like a classic '60s sports car,
09:56 even the Jaguar F-Type, you know,
09:58 just roll it under, it'd be so much better.
10:00 But that's a minor point.
10:01 There's probably some aero advantage to it.
10:04 But--
10:04 - Remember those posters
10:05 where they had a woman's body silhouetted
10:08 and then the car would be next to it?
10:10 Now you can do that with the AMG.
10:12 - Yeah.
10:13 - I don't think you're gonna see 'em do it with a GT-R.
10:14 - Yeah, no, no, no.
10:15 I'd like to meet her.
10:16 But also I'd like to drive her.
10:18 So come on, my turn.
10:19 - Let's go.
10:20 (upbeat music)
10:33 - Now listen to this thing.
10:35 There's the difference between the two GT-Rs right there.
10:43 - Oh, man, I love that rumble.
10:45 Hey, hey, hey.
10:47 - Wow, right?
10:47 - Yeah, man.
10:49 Sounds like muscle.
10:50 - You know, they call it the beast from the green L.
10:52 Emphasis on beast.
10:53 - It sounds like a beast.
10:55 - And then that sound is actually tied to some power.
10:58 - The beast has the torque, doesn't it?
11:00 - Oh my God, yeah.
11:01 So it's 516 pound feet of torque.
11:04 - Feels like more.
11:05 - Feels like more, but 'cause it's available everywhere.
11:07 1900 RPM is like basically idle.
11:10 - The torque is always there.
11:12 - But as you were pointing out,
11:13 the power builds so linearly.
11:14 So you always have this thrust,
11:17 this wonderful forward thrust,
11:18 but the car is getting more and more exciting
11:20 as you go faster and faster.
11:21 - Can you tell it's a turbo?
11:23 - I mean, maybe if I stopped and thought about it,
11:26 but no, you can't.
11:27 Especially, especially because
11:28 it sure doesn't sound like a turbo.
11:30 - When's the last time you stopped
11:31 and thought about anything when you were driving?
11:33 - (laughs) No, I don't do that.
11:35 - That ain't gonna happen.
11:36 - That's the secret to my success.
11:37 (laughs)
11:40 - The power's there though, right?
11:42 - Oh, it's awesome.
11:43 - I love the instant torque.
11:45 Always right there.
11:46 - Shocking, it's only four liters.
11:48 - Yeah, it feels like at least a liter more.
11:50 - And it's funny too, maybe 'cause it's lighter,
11:52 but it actually does make less horsepower
11:55 than the Nismo, but again,
11:56 it just feels like it makes so much more.
11:59 - It's so much easier to get to the power.
12:02 It's available right now.
12:03 The Nissan, you gotta be in that narrow power band.
12:07 - However, if you turn everything off in this car,
12:11 you do notice a problem with it,
12:12 and that is it's uncharacteristically hard
12:14 to put the power down.
12:16 - Don't turn it off, Johnny, don't turn it off.
12:18 - Well, I have my little switch here.
12:19 I can kinda crank it down.
12:21 - Well, the switch is cool.
12:22 You can adjust the traction control.
12:23 - Super, super cool, but--
12:24 - But you need it, you know why?
12:25 - Yeah.
12:26 - It doesn't put the power down.
12:28 Like probably it really oughta, like the GTS did.
12:32 - Right, the regular flavor version of this, the GTS,
12:35 which makes over 500 horsepower.
12:37 - It's a sweetheart.
12:38 - You thought, I'll never forget,
12:39 you came in two years ago at Laguna Seca,
12:41 and you go, this thing's all-wheel drive, right?
12:43 - Yes. - Nope.
12:44 - This is rear drive.
12:45 - That's when a car's hooked up.
12:47 (engine revving)
12:48 - This one, which has stickier tires,
12:51 not only are they Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2s,
12:53 it's the Corvette Spec,
12:55 which Corvette guys are not happy about,
12:57 it's the Corvette Spec.
12:58 - And they're that wide.
12:59 - Yeah, and when you're at 10/10s,
13:01 it doesn't put the power down.
13:02 - Yeah, if you ever have an issue in the AMG,
13:05 it's with the rear.
13:06 - Right, 'cause this front is practically perfect.
13:08 In fact, this turn-in--
13:10 - It's got quick response, doesn't it?
13:12 - There's an elegance to it, you know?
13:14 And maybe that's kinda what's missing from the Nissan.
13:16 The Nissan can change direction like no other car
13:18 in the world. - Oh yeah.
13:19 - But it's not a great feel.
13:21 - Yeah, it's a little bit more numb.
13:23 - Yeah.
13:24 - With AMG GT-Rs, you know exactly what's happening.
13:28 (car engine revving)
13:30 - Remember like old from the '70s,
13:31 like Marantz stereos, like the controls?
13:34 - Yeah, I remember Marantz.
13:34 - It was like weighted but balanced, you know?
13:38 That's the steering wheel.
13:39 - Oh yeah. - It's perfect.
13:40 Well, the rear steering though,
13:42 I mean, it really is noticeable that the car,
13:45 you know, can wow around a corner,
13:47 like very, very quickly.
13:48 - It's got a lot of steering response.
13:50 The Nissan is slower responding.
13:54 This thing, boom, you go.
13:55 - Now, also better on this car than the Nissan
13:58 for certain, the brakes.
14:00 Just like, wow, this thing just stops.
14:03 I know it's helped by the tires,
14:04 but also big carbon ceramic rotors
14:07 and they don't fade, they don't fatigue.
14:10 The response of everything is just kind of up.
14:12 And again, because I'm not a professional race car driver,
14:15 I bet I'd be quicker in the GT-R than I would in this car.
14:19 But I love how everything feels in this car.
14:22 You know, the Nissan has a,
14:24 it's good at soaking up bumps,
14:26 but there's like a numbness to the steering
14:29 and the throttle's artificial and the brake is long.
14:32 It doesn't work great.
14:33 And this is the opposite.
14:35 The steering's incredible, the throttle, perfectly linear.
14:38 You dial in 50%, you get 50% of the power.
14:41 - Oh, I love that part, Johnny.
14:42 - Brakes are perfect.
14:44 - You always know exactly the power you're gonna get
14:46 'cause it matches what you're doing with your gas pedal.
14:48 (car engine revving)
14:50 - So, but I just, the rear end, it's flabbergasting.
14:53 So like, how does AMG miss that, right?
14:56 Like, boy, this car does everything practically perfect,
15:00 yet it'll step out under power.
15:02 - I gotta guess. - Okay.
15:03 - This car is a lot more powerful than a GTS.
15:06 - Yeah.
15:06 - Maybe they say that's just part of the power.
15:09 - So maybe in other words, because some people make videos
15:12 where they promote drifting and nonsense oversteer.
15:15 You know, they're like, well, when people turn everything off
15:18 that's what they actually want.
15:20 - Maybe.
15:21 - But that can't be it because I know,
15:22 I know the people behind this.
15:24 I know Tobias Moore's the head of AMG
15:26 and track time, track time, you know what I mean?
15:28 Like.
15:29 - Well, Johnny, does the, did the GTS have rear wheel steering?
15:32 - No, that's new.
15:33 - I wonder if that's part of it.
15:34 And maybe that's not really completely sorted.
15:37 - I bet you're totally, totally right.
15:39 - 'Cause when I first drove that on Porsches,
15:41 I didn't like it as much as I do now in the latest, greatest.
15:45 - It's seamless, right?
15:46 Like if you drive a-- - Seamless, yeah.
15:47 - If you drive a Turbo S or the GT3,
15:49 don't even know it's there.
15:50 - It's like you never know it's there.
15:51 - Yeah.
15:52 - In this car, you can feel that the tail
15:54 is quite lively at turning.
15:57 I mean, it's responsive, but.
15:59 (car engine roaring)
16:01 - Another thing, you know, since we're being nitpicky here.
16:03 - Yeah, we are.
16:04 - Not a lot of suspension travel back there.
16:06 - You're right, the GTR and the AMG version
16:09 will bottom that rear suspension.
16:11 - It's like you're running out of travel, right?
16:13 I mean, it's weird. - Yeah, it is.
16:14 - And I don't remember the GTS doing that.
16:16 I remember-- - I got a real kidney shot
16:18 in that one corner with the jump.
16:20 - Yeah.
16:21 - Yeah, I didn't notice it in the Nissan.
16:22 (car engine roaring)
16:25 - So look, Godzilla has made a career
16:38 of embarrassing other supercars, right?
16:41 And we know from the Nürburgring times,
16:43 that's the seven minute, eight second.
16:44 This is a seven minute, 10 second.
16:46 - And that's really close.
16:48 - But those were different drivers on different days.
16:50 It might've taken place in different months.
16:52 I wonder if we had the same cars on the same day,
16:54 on the same track with the same driver,
16:56 what the results would be.
16:59 - You can't help but wonder that.
17:01 - If only we knew a guy.
17:03 Oh wait, we know you.
17:06 - Oh man, I would love it.
17:07 - Okay, but not just any track.
17:09 (car engine roaring)
17:10 - Oh, this racetrack.
17:13 - Yeah, man, only the best.
17:14 Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca.
17:16 And actually, the reason is, not only is it a great track,
17:18 but you have personally set the production car lap record
17:21 here several times.
17:22 So I figured what better place to lap these two.
17:26 Anyway, so I wanna ask you before you drive them,
17:27 which one of these two GTRs do you think
17:30 is gonna be the quickest?
17:32 - Man, Johnny, that's a tough one.
17:33 Right off the cuff, the AMG GTR seems faster to me.
17:38 I loved the GTS two years ago,
17:40 and this car has power, aero, tires, everything.
17:44 And then we compare it to a Nismo GTR.
17:47 This is the best Nismo, people.
17:49 I mean, the best GTR.
17:51 All-wheel drive.
17:52 - Yeah, huge advantage.
17:53 - That one draws a question mark in it,
17:55 because where's all-wheel drive the biggest advantage?
17:58 In a tight corner.
17:59 Well, Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca
18:01 has got three real tight corners.
18:04 It's gonna rock it out of there.
18:06 But I don't trust the brakes on the Nissan.
18:08 They're not at this level.
18:10 I'm sure of that.
18:11 So I think I'm gonna go AMG.
18:14 - Boy, you know, I've just seen so many times
18:16 when the Nissan has surprised everybody and beaten them.
18:20 And it shouldn't, right?
18:21 It's gigantic, and it's at this point old,
18:24 but they just keep making it better and better.
18:27 That said, when that was a GTS, it ran at 135.
18:32 It was a really quick time.
18:33 Now it's going from street to cup tires.
18:35 Right there, that's two seconds.
18:37 Then the extra power, the rear steering, the aero.
18:40 I don't know.
18:41 What I do know is there's only one way to find out,
18:43 which means Randy has to get in these cars and drive them.
18:46 (car engine roaring)
18:51 (car engine roaring)
18:54 (car engine roaring)
18:57 (car engine roaring)
19:01 (car engine roaring)
19:04 (car engine roaring)
19:08 (car engine roaring)
19:11 (car engine roaring)
19:28 (car engine roaring)
19:31 (car engine roaring)
19:49 (car engine roaring)
19:52 (car engine roaring)
20:01 (car engine roaring)
20:08 (car engine roaring)
20:15 (car engine roaring)
20:18 - Oh yeah, this thing rocks, people.
20:29 (car engine roaring)
20:32 - Two seconds.
20:33 Literally, two entire seconds over 2.21 miles.
20:37 Meaning that if it were a 10 lap race,
20:40 the Nismo would be coming off the corkscrew
20:42 as the AMG was apexing turn 11
20:45 and heading back onto the front straight.
20:47 That's a clear cut victory for the beast from the green hell.
20:51 As for Godzilla, the Nismo's continual improvement
20:54 means that despite its age,
20:56 it's still able to hang with the world's elite supercars.
20:59 If the Japanese GT-R is being held back anywhere,
21:02 it is by the decision not to fit the car
21:04 with R-compound tires and carbon ceramic brakes.
21:08 There's your two seconds per lap
21:09 at Mazda Raceway right there.
21:11 Despite that, the big Nissan remains a lovable monster.
21:14 However, the winner of this head to head
21:17 is the AMG GT Space R.
21:21 Not only did it turn the quicker lap time at Laguna Seca,
21:24 the ninth best we've ever recorded,
21:26 but the wonderfully, grotesquely painted German
21:29 was the car both Randy and I liked the best.
21:33 It's not just the beast, it's our kind of monster.
21:35 (car engine roaring)
21:39 (car engine roaring)
21:42 (car engine roaring)
21:45 (footsteps crunching)
21:49 (whooshing)