Comelec Chairman George Erwin Garcia | The Manila Times Roundtable
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NewsTranscript
00:00 [MUSIC]
00:10 Chairman George Gaciet, thank you for making time.
00:13 I know in the run up to the next barangay,
00:16 in the second round of elections,
00:17 you must be so busy now,
00:19 you're into the last 30 days.
00:21 But we really appreciate your time to brief us on
00:25 how the preparations are coming along.
00:28 These kinds of discussions are very important,
00:31 because it's very important that the government
00:33 is able to explain to our people,
00:35 to educate them and inform them of the developments,
00:38 and the restrictions, limitations,
00:40 especially to the candidates.
00:42 Sir, just to start things off,
00:44 how are things coming along?
00:47 Are you smooth?
00:49 Do you have concerns that you're monitoring?
00:52 And I think the election period has already started,
00:54 so what should people know?
00:57 Sir Clint, if you noticed the filing of the certificates of candidacy,
01:01 and that's with all modesty and due respect to everyone,
01:05 our filing was very smooth.
01:07 The filing of our candidacy was very smooth.
01:10 It was very peaceful.
01:11 It was possible that on the first day,
01:14 there were a lot of blackbusters filing their candidacy,
01:17 and it resulted to a 1.414 million number of candidates
01:23 during the last day of our filing of our candidacy.
01:27 So it was very smooth.
01:28 And then after that, we said that campaigning is prohibited.
01:31 We have a prohibition on premature campaigning,
01:33 because our interpretation is that premature campaigning
01:36 is there in a manual election,
01:38 because our election is manual in Barangay SK,
01:41 but when it's automated, there's no premature campaigning.
01:44 So we said that there's premature campaigning,
01:45 and we will disqualify candidates who will prematurely campaign
01:49 in all forms of media,
01:51 whether in social media or in regular media that we have.
01:55 And we also said that whether direct or indirect campaigning,
01:59 that's prohibited.
02:00 So now, if our countrymen are noticing nationwide,
02:03 there are no tarpaulins spreading,
02:05 there are no campaign materials,
02:06 it's like you're the only one who has an election.
02:08 It's like there's no election.
02:09 And I'm happy because they're at least compliant.
02:11 However, sir, there are still some who are still being manipulated.
02:14 A few, a very small percentage.
02:16 A few are still being manipulated,
02:17 and our show-costs,
02:20 almost 3,000,
02:22 our show-costs,
02:23 and then, just a while ago,
02:25 nationwide,
02:26 just a while ago, our task force on premature campaigning
02:30 filed petitions to disqualify 35 candidates.
02:34 And then by next week, they said they will file more every day.
02:37 Because we wanted to prove to one and all,
02:39 especially to the candidates,
02:41 that the Comelec is serious.
02:42 Before, they were able to say,
02:45 "It's light, it's good, the Comelec is spacious."
02:47 "Change the present leadership of the Comelec."
02:49 We will impose and implement the law at all costs.
02:52 Right.
02:53 Sir, I saw a recording of your press release,
02:57 I think a couple of weeks ago.
02:58 You were saying that you were receiving some complaints,
03:00 but there were some instances where the candidates were not the ones who complained or something.
03:05 So how bogged down are you with those,
03:07 you said 3,000,
03:08 it's also only small,
03:10 but Comelec's resources is also, I think,
03:12 focused on having a smooth election, right?
03:16 So how's the staff?
03:21 How's the preparation?
03:22 How are your other concerns?
03:26 Of course, the Comelec is always understaffed.
03:28 Our resources are not that much.
03:30 Because remember, Sir Clint.
03:31 They didn't give you the budget you're asking for.
03:33 Yes, but remember, Sir Clint, as we discussed before,
03:36 the Baraguayan-SK election was postponed and reset.
03:39 We were given only 8.441 billion pesos.
03:43 And we were requesting Congress to give us 3.5 out of 4 billion pesos.
03:49 Although we were given by the executive additional 2.59 billion,
03:52 but of course, that's not enough.
03:54 But what we did, Sir Clint, was that number one,
03:57 we increased the teachers' honorarium.
03:59 Supposedly, one teacher will receive 6,000 pesos as chairman and 5,000 as a member.
04:06 We had three electoral board members per precinct.
04:08 And so what we did was that based on our savings and the savings we saved, Sir Clint,
04:13 in our procurement, we made 10,000 and 9,000.
04:17 Because it's too unfair to our teachers if what they will still pay,
04:22 what we will give them is 6,000 and 5,000.
04:26 And with inflation.
04:27 Yes, so whether, because there should be no distinction between those who are serving in an automated election
04:34 and those who are serving in a manual election.
04:36 It should be the same.
04:37 In fact, Sir Clint, manual elections are more laborious.
04:41 So it's right that we give that.
04:43 And then, of course, we are training our teachers now.
04:47 We also had a command conference with our AFP and PNP.
04:51 And of course, the commonwealth has several projects for this BSKE
04:55 because we wanted to set a standard.
04:58 And so that by 2025 onwards, it should be like that.
05:02 If we can do it in 2023, Barangay NSK,
05:05 hopefully in the next years, we will be able to do it or even better.
05:09 I remember when you were testifying in the Senate,
05:13 you were saying that you had to anticipate more voters.
05:17 Because when you delay it, of course, there will be more Filipinos coming of age.
05:23 Has your calculations been on point?
05:27 Or how far are you from estimating the additional number of voters that you have to, of course, serve now?
05:35 Yes, Sir Clint, we started the registration.
05:38 We resumed the registration for purposes of the Barangay NSK election,
05:41 which was postponed from December 9 to January 30, 2023.
05:46 We did it in a small way because we know that we anticipated that it will increase.
05:51 And it resulted to 1.4 million additional voters.
05:54 1.4?
05:55 As correctly predicted, it will be around 1.4 to 1.5 million.
05:59 It resulted to 1.4 million additional voters.
06:03 And of course, it created an increase in the number of precincts
06:06 and of course, the number of ballot boxes that we are supposed to use, the number of ballots.
06:11 We have to print additional 1.4 million ballots.
06:15 And at the same time, you will add more indelible inks, more pen, and of course, the additional cost.
06:21 But as you were saying, you made due with it.
06:25 Did they force you to sign the throne?
06:28 Was something compromised to make you ready?
06:32 How did you go about it?
06:34 Instead of increasing too much the number of precincts, we clustered the precincts.
06:41 Of course, it will result to an increase in the number of voters per precinct.
06:45 But that is the effect that we are talking about.
06:48 If we save, the common leg will do something and it will result to a decrease.
06:55 Supposedly, it should increase but a decrease in the number of precincts
06:58 because we are going to recluster precincts.
07:01 And at the same time, we are saving a lot from our procurement.
07:05 Of course, that's the best thing in procurement because it's open and public.
07:10 Then, they will lower the price as long as they are compliant with our terms of reference.
07:15 So, we are awarded the lowest price.
07:18 We are able to have savings.
07:20 So, the clustering was done nationwide or it was just selective?
07:24 It was nationwide and presently, we have 202,000 precincts.
07:32 Based on our estimate, it should be around 228,000.
07:37 So, 20,000 something less.
07:39 Yes, we reduced it because when you increase also the number of precincts,
07:43 you increase the number of electoral board members.
07:45 And for your information, presently, we have about 836,000 teachers
07:51 that will be serving for the election of October 30.
07:54 And do you know that for purposes of information and dissemination to our fellow countrymen,
08:02 in budgeting, almost 65% of the budget of the common elect in an election
08:09 will go to our honorary teachers.
08:12 Workers.
08:13 Yes.
08:14 So, more or less, that will be about 7 billion.
08:17 The 8.449 and then the additional 2.59, it's about 7 billion for our honorary teachers.
08:24 You're saying that there is an additional 1.4 something votes.
08:28 So, total, how many are eligible and how many are you expecting?
08:32 Normally, the turnout is higher, right, when it comes to barangay compared to the national elections?
08:39 Our 2020 election, sir, it resulted to an 83% voter's turnout,
08:45 the highest in the history of our country's election, 83%.
08:49 And based on historical data, as far as voting for barangay and SK is concerned,
08:55 almost 70%.
08:57 That's a lot of work.
08:58 The 70% voter's turnout is still high, simply because maybe they know barangay,
09:04 they are friends, so they are going to the precincts and voting.
09:08 So, 70%, and we are expecting more or less 70% voter's turnout.
09:13 Lower, but still a lot.
09:15 Yes, because we have to understand that the election will be by October 30.
09:18 And the next day, it's All Saints Day.
09:21 And therefore, people will be flocking to their provinces and maybe after voting,
09:27 then they will rest and enjoy the holidays by that time.
09:30 Right. For the voter, will there be any significant changes because of the clustering?
09:37 Will the queue be longer? Because it's not as few as when you have the national elections.
09:45 When it comes to national elections, sir Clint, in the last 2022 elections,
09:49 we had 107,000 precincts.
09:53 The reason is because of course, one precinct was equivalent to almost 600 to 800 voters.
09:59 Wow. Okay. That's a ratio.
10:01 Because the machines are expensive.
10:02 So now, since this is manual, we don't have machines.
10:05 So, even if we do it from 200, we clustered it and did it from 400,
10:11 even if it's 600, we honestly believe that we can finish voting.
10:16 So again, for the information of everyone, the voting will be from 7 o'clock to 3 o'clock only
10:21 because it's manual election.
10:22 Right. And then you were, we were talking a while ago,
10:25 Comelec has some interesting innovations that you're trying out.
10:29 Can you talk about those pilot experiments?
10:33 Yes, sir. So, Clint, for this election of October 30, Barangay SK,
10:37 the Comelec would like to pilot this, the so-called mall voting.
10:42 Mall voting. Okay.
10:43 We were really surprised at the reception of our fellow countrymen.
10:46 Okay.
10:47 So, there will be 10 malls participating and at no expense, sir,
10:51 to Comelec.
10:52 In the commission of the election, we will not pay anything.
10:54 The malls' personnel and facilities will be given to us for free.
10:58 It's really just part of the corporate social responsibility of the malls.
11:02 And so, we will really pilot 10 here in Metro Manila and of course in Legazpi and in Cebu.
11:12 And we're hoping that the voter experience will be different this time.
11:16 Especially if you'll be going to a mall, air-conditioned,
11:19 you can go with your family after voting or before voting.
11:22 And at the same time, there's not much vote buying there
11:25 because we will monitor all the voters' movements.
11:28 And the most important thing in mall voting is that our senior citizens, PWDs,
11:35 heavily pregnant women, will be properly taken care of because there are facilities,
11:40 like a wheelchair, security guards, staff of the malls,
11:46 and of course there are staff of Comelec who will accompany them in voting.
11:51 So, while they're voting, their surroundings are a bit cold.
11:56 And while they're waiting, for example, here in Manila,
12:00 they were placed in a mall, in a cinema while they're waiting.
12:05 So, comfortably, they can sleep while they're waiting.
12:10 So, that's what we want because if in case we'll become successful in the Barangay and SK election,
12:17 we'll do mall voting nationwide. We have almost 400 malls nationwide.
12:21 It's more convenient.
12:23 And we don't force the voters.
12:26 We consult the precincts next to the malls before we cast their vote.
12:33 Number two, we have what we call as early voting hours.
12:38 Take note, hours.
12:39 So, same day but earlier starts.
12:42 Yes, sir. Because we have been pushing for early voting law.
12:46 We hope it will be at least one week before the election,
12:48 because we have media, AFP, PNP, teachers.
12:51 But it's not yet passed. So, the Comelec has to innovate.
12:54 So, we thought of early voting hours.
12:57 5 to 7 here in Muntinlupa and Naga City.
13:00 Then, these senior citizens, they're the ones who wake up early.
13:04 The heavily pregnant women, the PWDs, they can vote 5 to 7.
13:09 It's exclusive to them.
13:11 Of course, the others who don't want to vote 5 to 7, they can join the majority.
13:16 But they can't extend the queue, they can get in trouble, get hurt,
13:22 and vote.
13:24 It's exclusive. And it's a bit cold. 5 to 7 is the best time.
13:28 And then, the third project that we are going to have by the BSK of 2023 is the automated BSKE.
13:36 The ambition of the Comelec is to automate all of our elections.
13:41 That's why there's a massive violence, failure of election before.
13:46 It's because while the counting of ballots or the proclaiming of candidates is taking a long time,
13:51 the losing candidates of the election and the supporters are able to do it.
13:55 Meanwhile, in 15 minutes, you know the results.
13:58 How can you be deceived? How can you protest or whatever?
14:01 And we experienced that in 2022.
14:04 In a matter of one hour, you know who your mayor is.
14:06 In a matter of two hours, you know who your governor is.
14:08 In a matter of one day, you know who your president is.
14:11 Especially if it's the barangay.
14:13 We are pilot testing automated BSKE in Dasmariñas, Cavite.
14:18 Those are two barangays.
14:19 And in District 6 of Quezon City.
14:22 So that hopefully, the next barangay and SK elections, we can automate it.
14:26 Although, unfortunately, because of the decision of the Supreme Court.
14:30 Take note, sir Clint.
14:32 There was this decision of the Supreme Court saying that the postponement of the barangay and SK elections
14:37 that should be on December 5 of 2022 was declared unconstitutional.
14:42 And because of that, the Supreme Court said, "Okay, unconstitutional.
14:46 But we will have to proceed with the October 30 barangay and SK elections because of the so-called operative fact doctrine."
14:54 The communique was able to prepare everything.
14:56 So let's continue with October 2023.
14:58 But unfortunately, sir Clint, the Supreme Court said the next election will be by 2025, not 2026.
15:06 I do remember you were making a statement about that.
15:09 You effectively shortened the tenure of the new elected barangay in Kunting, Cavite.
15:17 Yes, that's right.
15:19 That's right, sir Clint.
15:20 That's the reason why the other day, I wrote a letter addressed to the Solicitor General,
15:24 respectfully asking him or his office to file the motion for reconsideration on behalf of the commission election.
15:31 Only on three grounds.
15:33 First, with all due respect to our Supreme Court, why are we shortening the term of barangay officials?
15:39 The issue that we are discussing now has been extended to the issue of shortening.
15:43 Number one.
15:44 Number two, the Supreme Court said the reason why the barangay and SK elections were declared unconstitutional,
15:50 the postponement, is because the election should be a periodic election.
15:55 If that is the case, if we are talking about a periodic election,
15:58 if the election that they are sustaining is valid in October of 2023,
16:04 three years thereafter, the election should be in 2026.
16:08 That's our third reason that practically we will be preparing for two elections in 2025.
16:13 The national and the barangay.
16:15 The midterms and the barangay.
16:16 One could be automated and we want to automate the other, but we will not have sufficient resources.
16:24 One will be in May, one will be in November.
16:26 The difference is only five months.
16:28 We are filing the motion for reconsideration.
16:31 It may be an exercise in futility, but just the same.
16:34 We would like to emphasize to our honorable Supreme Court,
16:37 maybe we can study those two things.
16:40 We will not take care anymore or we will not question anymore whether the Congress had exercised rightly the power to legislate or postpone.
16:50 That's not for us, that's for the Congress.
16:52 But as far as the public is concerned, well, Sir Clink, I can honestly tell you,
16:57 we can handle the two elections, but it will be very, very difficult.
17:01 Sure. With the limited resources or the resources that Congress is unwilling to give.
17:08 Yes, because the budget that we submitted to the executive, which was forwarded to Congress,
17:12 and which is now being heard, pertains only to the preparatory national and local election of 2025.
17:19 It does not contain any budget for any barangay and SK elections for the 2025 supposed election.
17:26 Because when we submitted the budget to Congress and to the office of the president, there was no decision yet of the Supreme Court.
17:32 So when you get that legal opinion, does that require a new case in the Supreme Court?
17:38 Or are you looking to legislate the new schedule of the barangay and SK elections?
17:44 What is the roadmap here?
17:46 Sir, the motion for reconsideration will be filed in the same case.
17:50 And we're hoping that the honorable Supreme Court will be able to clarify.
17:54 But if not, in the decision of the Supreme Court, there is nothing that prevents the Congress from legislating for a postponement of the barangay.
18:05 It's so very clear. But the Supreme Court merely said that if Congress will postpone an election,
18:11 the Congress should follow the following guidelines.
18:14 Oh, so that's something new. It's not what I understood.
18:18 So the Supreme Court said it was legal except they need to follow certain rules?
18:23 Yes, because according to the Supreme Court, the reason cited by the Supreme Court is a reason which is not acceptable.
18:31 I mean by the Congress.
18:32 I remember they said it can't be any for flimsy reasons.
18:36 Yes, and of course, you will have to abide by certain standards and guidelines.
18:40 Maybe if Congress will be able to abide by what the Supreme Court is requiring, then postponement of an election can still be possible.
18:49 Circling back to this innovation of the piloted automated elections for the barangay.
18:55 So how did Comaleg go about that?
18:58 I mean, because the problem with the machines before was that it's outlived its legal lifespan.
19:05 So how did you guys go about it this time for the pilot?
19:08 So we already declared the 98,000 machines or 97,000 machines as unusable.
19:14 Fortunately, we still have 1,000 machines.
19:16 Oh, so that's what you used.
19:17 That will be operational. That is presently operational.
19:20 And so that will be used for the Barangay SK pilot test, pilot automated election.
19:26 But of course, we'd like also to announce that by 2025, we'll no longer be using the entire 98,000 machines.
19:34 These have been used for the last three elections.
19:37 And to us and to our understanding, based even on technical issue, it will not perform that much or we can no longer expect that kind of efficiency.
19:48 And so the Comaleg will now venture into procuring new machines, hopefully leasing and not buying or purchasing machines.
19:59 I want to go back to that, Linlo, but just to close up that discussion on the pilot.
20:06 When you said earlier one of the pilots is to start earlier, 5 to 7, does that shorten or make the closing time earlier also?
20:19 No, sir.
20:20 So it just starts earlier but it still ends at the…
20:23 It will still have to end by 3 o'clock.
20:26 By 3 o'clock.
20:27 So it doesn't mean that you end at 1, just like that?
20:31 And sir Clink, we gave additional 2,000 pesos across the board to all the electoral board members serving in this pilot areas of early voting hours.
20:43 Wow. Now, since you mentioned the elections for 2025 and preparations, I know your attention is focused now on this one coming up.
20:53 But I'm sure that's also part of the things that's occupying because 2025 is not a long time.
21:00 Where is Comaleg at right now? What's the discussion among the commissioners on how to go about it?
21:08 You mentioned that we're not going to use the same machines.
21:11 You mentioned that you're favoring leasing rather than purchasing.
21:16 Are there any other details at this point that you can share publicly?
21:20 Yes. Of course, the first stage in preparation for an automated election come 2025 is to declare that the machines are no longer useful or usable.
21:31 So we already did that. The second one is, of course, to propose for a budget.
21:35 Hopefully, a budget that will allow the Comaleg to procure or lease new machines.
21:40 This is a budget for 2024?
21:42 Yes, 2024. We call that the preparatory NLE. Always, always people will have to understand that there must be a preparatory year for the conduct of an election, especially an automated election.
21:53 So we propose already. It was reduced substantially. The Comaleg was reduced by almost 17.4 billion pesos.
22:01 So what is the approved?
22:03 As proposed by the president's budget and already the Congress heard our budget, so we will be given only about 22.9 billion pesos for the new machines system, meaning the software, the hardware, the transmission, or everything about the automated election system.
22:25 We propose, hopefully, we propose more or less about 28 billion, but we will reduce to only 20, yes sir, to 22 only.
22:33 But what we will do is, that's how it was approved. Hopefully, they will be able to return it even if it's in the BICAM.
22:40 But if not, we will reduce the number of precincts. That's the first solution.
22:45 When you say you reduce the number of precincts, we were predicting, hopefully, that it will be 128,000 precincts, but because of that, maybe it will be 110,000 only. 1,000 voters per precinct.
22:57 That's the consequence of a reduced budget.
23:02 So by October, this coming October, we're going to start with the procurement process.
23:07 Even if the budget had not yet been approved under the law, sir Clink, we can already proceed with early procurement short of a while.
23:14 So we can now proceed so that we will determine.
23:17 Because we put new innovations in our new machines that are not yet there.
23:22 Okay, even in the technical requirements.
23:24 Yes sir, not yet. And for the last two months, we released the TOR, we put it on our Comedec website, there are no questions.
23:31 No one told us that it is tailor-fitted to any company because we really made sure that it will not be tailor-fitted to any of the companies.
23:41 And this is a feature of the machines based on our experiences and our needs.
23:50 I would like to cite an example, sir Clink, with your kind permission.
23:53 Sure.
23:54 The machine will have a 13-inch screen so that the voter will be able to see the ballot image back and forth.
23:59 When he enters, the receipt will still be displayed, he will be able to see his ballot.
24:03 So it's not a small screen.
24:05 Yes sir, and its speed, instead of 70 millimeters per second, 270 millimeters per second.
24:12 After that, sir Clink, it has an automatic correction of the ballot, it does not hit anything, it automatically corrects it.
24:21 And the most important thing, it will display a receipt, it has a QR code, you can shoot the QR code so that at the end of the voting, it will be summed up.
24:33 And the machine will be transmitting not only to the city or municipal board of canvas, but transmit to all.
24:42 Transmit to PPCRB, citizens, the Kapisanan ng mga broadcaster ng Pilipinas, the majority party, minority party, the Congress,
24:53 city or municipal board of canvas, and the Comelec.
24:57 Meaning, for the first time, we will do it. We don't have a transparency server.
25:01 Yeah, because that's what I was going to ask you.
25:03 There were some comments on social media about the removal.
25:06 So you're removing that, not because you're removing transparency, but you're removing that because you're going directly to all of these organizations.
25:14 Yes sir, so that they can compare among themselves if the data is transmitted.
25:18 So in essence, that's the transparency.
25:21 Yes, and there's another thing, the best transparency, that's why we called it,
25:27 because the machine can feature manual, it can be automated, what they call hybrid.
25:36 It can be, what's the last feature of that?
25:39 After the machine can sum up the ballot, and then the result is transmitted, the election returns are printed,
25:46 the machines will be showing all the ballot images to the public.
25:51 So could you go back to that again, how many will now receive? Is it KBP, PPCRV?
25:57 We made a point that there should be two citizens' arm, not just one.
26:01 Before, only one was given by the ER.
26:03 Now, there are two citizens' arm, PPCRV and KBP, and NAMFREL, and then the majority party,
26:11 whoever will become the majority party, the minority party, and of course, Congress,
26:16 and then the city or municipal board of congress and the commission of election.
26:21 Before, we were there in the transparency server, getting the results.
26:24 Everyone gets from that?
26:25 Yes, all the media entities, we're there now, it's gone.
26:29 If they want to get other media, then we can ask the NAMFREL or PPCRV or the KBP to get the copies of the election returns.
26:38 So people who were maybe criticizing you because there may be something nefarious there,
26:43 the safeguard is, as you said, they can compare now.
26:47 Yes, sir.
26:48 They should be fair, because if they're not fair, that's where the cheating may be.
26:53 Yes, sir. I sent "I love you" to everyone, and then one received "I hate you."
26:58 It's a bit confusing.
26:59 And then, the images of the ballots that our voters dropped, at the end of the day, we will show it all.
27:07 We can't identify who cast the ballot.
27:11 So we will show it, and we will allow even the watchers, even the candidates, to take pictures of the ballot images.
27:17 And then at the end of the show, they will sum up all the ballot images,
27:22 the vote of the mayor, the vote of this, so they know if it's the same as the one that was printed and transmitted the results.
27:27 So those people who may still be skeptical, would it be correct to say that instead of just hacking one transparency server,
27:35 they would have to hack all of these?
27:37 Yes, sir.
27:38 So in a sense, it's harder now to do the wholesale, because all of those recipients will have to match the results.
27:47 Is that correct? Is that the correct way of understanding it?
27:50 Yes, sir. That's why we call it FastTrack, fully automated system with transparency audit and count.
27:56 So you can manually count, you can audit, and we will not do away with the so-called random manual audit.
28:04 We are going to count the ballots, physically and manually, and that's still part of the process, because that's provided by law.
28:13 In fact, the Comlec is likewise pushing us another project for the 2025 election for internet voting for our overseas Filipinos.
28:21 It's high time that we use the internet so we can guarantee security and the transparency and auditability of the entire process and system.
28:29 Does that require a law?
28:31 Based on our study, there is no need for a law. The law by itself…
28:34 So the Comlec can, as a constitutional body, come up with the rules?
28:38 Yes, sir. Republic Act 50 provides that the Comlec can come up with other modes of voting,
28:45 and then we just recommend or we just report to Congress what other modes of voting there is.
28:50 And so we will proceed with internet voting, because, sir Clint, try to imagine in 2022,
28:56 we have 1.697 million overseas Filipinos registered.
29:02 1.697 million.
29:03 It's not just that many voters, all Filipinos abroad, 10 to 12 million.
29:08 Why 1.697 million?
29:10 And then, what we got, sir Clint, is 40.59.
29:13 Very small.
29:14 Highest in the history, not even 50%, 40.59.
29:17 And we spent almost 418 million pesos.
29:20 Right.
29:21 So it's a waste.
29:22 It's a waste.
29:25 And then, because they don't go to the embassy, to the consulates,
29:28 and they don't send back the same envelope that is filled with balotas when it comes to mail-in voting,
29:35 so what they still do is they just leave it or whatever.
29:39 So it's sad because the per capita is too big if we look at it as against voting.
29:46 Right.
29:47 And not unlike internet voting, especially for our seafarers,
29:50 even if they are in a remote area, sir Clint, they can still use their cellphones, laptops, iPads, and they can vote.
29:57 I see.
29:58 Interesting.
29:59 So going back to the terms of reference, have there been any expressions of interest from different parties?
30:07 How much interest has that generated so far?
30:11 Yes, sir.
30:12 When we came up with the TOR, and the TOR was released via the Comelec website,
30:18 we conducted the so-called market survey.
30:20 It's part of the requirement of procurement.
30:23 And four interested prospective suppliers came to the commission and submitted their price, their quotation,
30:34 and they are saying they can customize the machine based on the terms of reference.
30:39 So hopefully, the number of prospective bidders will increase, not only four, but maybe more.
30:45 Sometimes, when you conduct a market survey, you are the one who is monitoring,
30:49 and suddenly you will be surprised that there are so many interested bidders.
30:52 And you said it's not designed to favor any particular supplier,
30:58 but for example, even Kit Tata today was saying that maybe we should disqualify Smartmatic,
31:05 but I assume that that's not your intention as well with the TOR.
31:09 It's not meant to favor anyone, but would it necessarily disqualify anyone?
31:14 Yes, sir. You are correct. It's not intended to favor anyone, and not intended to disfavor anyone also.
31:20 We would like to ensure a level playing field for everyone, a fair competition.
31:25 Everybody should participate.
31:26 You know, it's better if there's more technology, more choices by the commission.
31:30 Our problem is that there are certain rules and regulations that restrict competition,
31:37 such as for example, sir, the implementing rules and regulations of the Government Procurement Policy Board.
31:45 They said that for these kinds of transactions, the winner should have the single largest completed contract, 50%.
31:53 Who has 50%? If you have 20 billion projects, you should have 10 billion.
31:56 So I wrote a letter to GPPB. I said, as much as possible, the present leaders, you could like a level playing field.
32:03 Yes, so that everyone can be open.
32:05 I requested if it's possible to lower it from 50%. They agreed and said, how much more do you want?
32:10 So we proposed 30%. And then for the 30%, regardless whether it is supply, manufacturing, delivery,
32:16 it doesn't matter so long as they have experience already with the automated system of election or voting.
32:24 So if they can afford it, more people will participate.
32:28 And the disqualification, all of that is well taken.
32:35 In fact, there was a petition filed before the commission election to disqualify the supplier that you mentioned.
32:42 Unfortunately, as a lawyer, any lawyer, you cannot disqualify based on speculation.
32:49 You cannot disqualify based only on speculation. Of course, we are fully aware that the case was filed against the former chairman of the commission election involving the alleged rigging of the procurement.
33:02 And that's the reason why we are so monitoring the situation.
33:06 We wanted to find out what are the evidences available in the hands of the US Homeland Security.
33:13 Because this evidence will be very important to us, especially in our procurement and for us to be of assistance when we make the proper decision at the right time.
33:23 I see. So let's talk about timetables.
33:26 Because there is that timeline of the case against the former Commilite Chair Bautista.
33:33 And then of course, your preparations for 2025. What are the major milestones ahead?
33:41 So you came out with the TOR.
33:43 And hopefully by October, we'll be able to... well, 1st of October, we'll start with the procurement process.
33:49 And the process will last for about one to two months.
33:52 And then hopefully the Comilec and Bank will have a choice already by December.
33:57 And then by January, we can award already the contract.
34:00 And then when you award, of course, there will now be a customization of everything.
34:05 And there will be an end-to-end testing.
34:07 So customization, including end-to-end, will require about six to seven months.
34:12 There will be international certification. You need that.
34:15 And of course, the source code review and such other review as mandated by law and by regulation.
34:23 So all in all, sir Clint, the entire process will have to be completed by 2024, December.
34:31 So that by January, February printing of the ballots and such other matters in relation to the election.
34:38 And I failed to mention, sir Clint, that it is our proposal.
34:41 We did this. We didn't do this before.
34:44 What we did was we included in the contract the software and hardware.
34:50 And at the same time, other collateral such as ballot printing.
34:54 Of course, the ballots will have to be printed by the National Printing Office.
34:57 But they will pay the NPO.
34:59 There will be papers there. It's not just us who will buy or whatever.
35:02 It's just a package. The ballot box, the pen.
35:05 In fact, our pen, we said that it might not be necessary to be shaped.
35:09 The bingo one, it's just like being stamped.
35:11 Because if it's shaped, it's like a stamp.
35:13 If it's less than 50 percent, it's not counted as a machine.
35:16 Meanwhile, if it's stamped, it's better and easier.
35:19 So it's up to the supplier of the machine.
35:21 In the end, it's up to him.
35:23 This is ours. It's packaged.
35:25 Except transmission.
35:27 Are you looking at one supplier or is COMELEC open to maybe awarding several?
35:35 Luzon will be given to one company. Visayas to another company.
35:38 Is that?
35:39 Very dangerous.
35:40 So you just want it?
35:41 It should always be one supplier.
35:42 So that way, you're just keeping one.
35:44 Yes, sir. And at the same time, you know, for example, even on our cell phone,
35:49 the smart is different, the globe is different.
35:51 All of that cannot be matched.
35:53 They won't even give their password or code.
35:56 And that's also the reason why we decided not to include the transmission.
36:02 Because the transmission before was also included in the total package of the machine.
36:06 The transmission is a separate contract altogether because we should be the one talking to the telcos.
36:11 And we wanted to include the DICT as well as the National Telecommunication Commission.
36:16 Okay. And what's the concern there?
36:19 When you said that, is it again for security and transparency?
36:23 Is that the aim there to talk directly to the telcos for the transmission?
36:26 Definitely. Because the COMELEC would like to demand whatever document.
36:30 We would like to be included in the contract.
36:32 Like for example, we always have the so-called telco exchange.
36:37 You need that because of course, smart or other or globe or other telcos will not allow their system to be shared with other companies.
36:47 So there should be a telco exchange.
36:49 Now, the telco exchange, we will allow everybody to participate in the procurement.
36:58 But the telco exchange, whoever will win in that exchange, will now be talking to the different telcos.
37:04 We wanted to have a part in the contract that they will enter into.
37:08 We wanted to be a nominal party to the contract, signing the contract, amending, changing, modifying, whatever is the provision of the contract.
37:16 And we wanted the National Telecommunication Commission to be a witness to that contract.
37:20 In fact, whatever the data being sent to the telco exchange coming from the machines, there should be a backup of the COMELEC and the backup of the DICT.
37:32 We wanted also to include the DICT because of course, for security reasons, in order to ensure that whatever will happen in the telco exchange,
37:44 there will always be two backups.
37:46 Right. Can I ask you something hypothetical?
37:49 So given the timeline you were mentioning earlier, so hopefully, if I understood correctly, by the first half of 2024, there should be a winning bidder already.
38:00 But assuming that maybe a bid is awarded to a supplier and that is that controversial supplier and then the case of former chair, Gertz Bautista,
38:15 comes out, the decision comes out after the bid that's been given, in a scenario, would you think COMELEC would step in, say, just in case that same supplier is...
38:31 And that's the reason why, sir, Clink...
38:36 I know it's very difficult to...
38:39 That's why, to me, the present circumstances and the available facts should be factored in whenever we are to choose the new supplier or the supplier of the machines.
38:53 Meaning to say, my statement should not be construed as disqualifying anybody because that's what I'm telling you, sir, that definitely we're not going to disqualify anybody at this point.
39:04 But that's very important and hopefully, before the proper time comes that we are going to award, hopefully it will become very, very clear to us.
39:12 You know, we are so aware of certain political, historical, and certain issues surrounding the COMELEC automation.
39:22 And that's why we do not want to commit certain mistakes, perhaps committed in the past, or mistakes that we anticipate will be committed.
39:30 That's why we want everybody to be involved. And that's why the procurement will be open to the public, will be open to all stakeholders, will be live-streamed.
39:40 And we do not want to hide anything to the public, especially the fact that we are going to spend billions of pesos, people's money.
39:47 That's why I guarantee, under the present leadership, that certain things that happened before maybe will not happen again.
39:56 But not only that, is COMELEC monitoring what's going on in the U.S., where there were a lot of criticisms against Smartmatic and Dominion, and then they sued the Fox Network?
40:08 Is that something that you guys are looking at also and see if there's something that maybe, there may be a need to safeguard anything for the Philippines?
40:19 We are wondering, Sir Clink, we cannot answer that, maybe it's the U.S. Homeland Security.
40:26 The one that was charged was the former chairman, but there was no charge as against the company.
40:33 Oh, I see.
40:34 From the legal point of view, why? Shouldn't they be together? One is the one who gave, the other one is the one who received.
40:44 Why is it that only the one who received, allegedly who received, was the one charged and not the one who gave?
40:50 So there's something, that's what we're asking.
40:53 Why was not there a charge sheet against the company that allegedly gave something?
41:00 That's why it's very important.
41:03 Was there not a case against really the company or is the evidence against the company so not strong?
41:10 But why charge only the former chairman of the company?
41:14 Can we go back to the Balangay and Sagunayakubatay elections?
41:17 Sir, what should people know? Because I know you've been making statements about early voting.
41:24 I think you had a public issue, a press statement a couple of weeks ago about warning, I think, bribes through digital wallets, things like that.
41:38 Are there any other things that you would like to remind people to watch out for with regard to this October 30 elections?
41:47 Yes, very, very important is the issue of vote buying. It's not only about vote buying, it's vote selling also.
41:53 It takes two to tango. There's no vote buyer if there's no vote seller.
41:56 So it's a warning to everyone, even including our voters, that if you receive money in kind or promise and you vote for the person who gave it to you,
42:09 it's not only him who will be the one to be charged, it's also you.
42:12 So it takes two to tango.
42:14 And when a case is filed against you, what is this? Election offense, one to six years imprisonment.
42:20 And if you're convicted, perpetual disqualification to hold public office.
42:24 So that's what we're saying. Vote buying is the new cancer of our democracy and therefore we have to really get rid of that.
42:33 We cannot have that kind of culture. When we're young, it's okay to receive money, it's okay to receive promises.
42:42 We cannot have that kind of culture. We should be able to teach our youth especially that it's bad.
42:50 And what you're going to sell is not only yourself, you're selling to the debtor, you're selling your future.
42:56 And you cannot be able to have a right choice if there's always a counterpart money or promise.
43:03 We should understand that and that's the reason why voters education is very important.
43:08 But we need also the public. We need them to report attempts and in fact we promulgated the guidelines.
43:14 We will make some presumptions which presumptions will lead to the fact that these people may be engaged in vote buying.
43:20 We have not done that before. This time we will make some presumptions such as for example, Sir,
43:25 for example, a person two days before the election will be sending to 20 people, 1,000 pesos using the modern mode or way of G-cash, of Paymaya.
43:37 We will presume that person is engaged in vote buying. It's quite a serious thing.
43:41 So your economic is able to monitor that?
43:43 Yes, because we already talked with the Anti-Money Laundering Council and the Banco Central ng Pilipinas as well as G-cash, Paymaya and such other platforms.
43:50 So they are already asking for it.
43:51 And that's the reason why we are announcing try and attempt because we would like to find out whether we can be able to trace them.
43:58 I see. Interesting. And then I think you also mentioned something about internships or as a form of another form of vote buying or employing people.
44:09 Could you expound on that?
44:10 Yes, Sir. On election day.
44:12 You were saying that they have to get permission from Comelec regardless of if you had allowed it in another place, every single instance they have to go through a process with Comelec.
44:25 Yes, Sir. If you can still remember, this happens usually on election day.
44:31 What a candidate will do is he will get 50 watchers per precinct.
44:35 Right.
44:36 Those are voters, Sir. Klinkion, of the precinct.
44:40 Watchers. In Tagalog, it's just watcher-watcheran.
44:43 You don't need 50. You just need two. Alternate.
44:46 So that's vote buying.
44:47 Yes, that's vote buying. Who's 48? You give 500 pesos, 1,000. It's just a lot out there. It's even on a teaser.
44:53 But that's vote buying. Pure and simple.
44:55 So we will be making that kind of presumption.
44:58 If a candidate is waiting in line at their house a day before the election, and there are plastic bags in the line,
45:05 we will presume the candidate living in that house or in that headquarters as engaged in vote buying.
45:13 There's one person, he has indelible ink, and he was caught.
45:18 We will presume that person as engaged in vote buying and the money ban.
45:23 Before it was attempted in 2013, money ban was implemented in Vidrowal.
45:29 We will not do that. We do not want to disrupt the banking system.
45:32 Sure.
45:33 That is unfair.
45:34 But any person, at least three days before the election,
45:38 he's going to be scattered in the barangay, he has 500,000 pesos, plus, and take note of my word,
45:43 plus other evidence, for example, he has indelible ink, he has sample ballots.
45:50 We will presume that person as engaged in vote buying, not because of the bringing of the 500,000 pesos only,
45:56 but because of the other evidence.
45:58 So meaning, this is an enhance, we strengthen our fight against vote buying.
46:03 That's why we entered into a MoA, a memorandum of agreement with the DOJ for the prosecution side.
46:10 We also entered a MoA with the public attorney's office.
46:15 We entered a MoA with the Philippine Association of Law Schools, as well as the Integrated Bar of the Philippines.
46:22 So, okay, those who will violate, you will not get lawyers, all of them are with us, who will defend you.
46:28 So maybe, they will just think twice if they were going to be engaged in vote buying or vote selling.
46:34 For those who may witness something like that, is this common like you have a hotline or do they have a chance to report something like that?
46:43 Yes, our common like website.
46:46 You can see all the telephone numbers there.
46:49 In fact, certainly, we will assume jurisdiction even if it's not under oath or formally filed.
46:56 Even if it's just a simple report, what we are doing now in our campaign against premature campaigning is very, very effective.
47:03 All the reports that we have verified, yes, there's a poster there, a piece of it.
47:08 We are issuing show-cause order against the candidate.
47:13 He will just be denied.
47:14 He will be denied.
47:15 He said he's not a candidate, number one, number two, he didn't put it.
47:18 Number three, he put it prior to the filing of the candidate.
47:22 So, you shouldn't have removed it.
47:23 At least, we are giving due process.
47:26 But we are now acting based only on these reports so that we can verify.
47:31 Therefore, we can motu proprio, and that's what we did early this morning.
47:36 We can motu proprio file petitions to disqualify or election offense cases against candidates.
47:41 So, we encourage our people to please report to common like.
47:45 If in the past, it's not acted upon or your complaints were not acted upon, please try this present leadership.
47:51 Wow.
47:52 It seems like you have your hands full.
47:55 Is there anything else, Chairman, that you want to maybe remind people about or maybe you would like to share with us something that I haven't asked about?
48:04 I just want to ask our people, our voters not to vote on candidates who violated the laws, who are not following our laws or regulation.
48:12 If it's just for now, they are not following the law, they are not winning.
48:17 It's better to vote on those who are following the law because they have good intentions in our barangay.
48:24 But if they are violating the law now, don't steal those.
48:27 At the same time, you will violate your rights.
48:30 You are not following the law. So, this is a fair warning to one and all.
48:34 If you want, and also we would like to emphasize, Sir Clint, barangay is very important.
48:41 It may be the smallest unit of our government, but all of our problems are family, husband, neighbors, pandemic.
48:50 Our frontliners are barangay.
48:54 Therefore, if our barangay is good, our life will be good.
48:58 Well, Chairman, I wish you luck.
49:01 I think we'll talk to you again very soon as the election day gets near for more updates and other reminders.
49:10 Good luck, Sir Nano.
49:11 Yes, Sir. Thank you very much, Sir Clint.
49:13 Maraming salamat sa Manila Times at sa lahat ng readers and ng mga nanonood po sa inyong programa.
49:19 Okay. Thanks, Chairman.
49:21 Salamat.
49:23 [Music]
49:38 [Music]