Election 2024: Don't follow Alan; support NPP to break the 8 - NPP urges party faithful | The Big Stories
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NewsTranscript
00:00:00 Well thank you for staying with us and you know where we're going on our first conversation,
00:00:04 the first big story we're looking at today. Alan Chamartin has decided to go with the
00:00:09 butterfly and kick out the elephant. He has resigned, but what is the way forward for
00:00:15 him and for the MPP? Well today we have stalwarts from both ends who will be dialoguing with
00:00:22 us in terms of what the way forward is. On the back of the MPP's response as well, Justin
00:00:28 Friboncodia saying that there may have been some ill will, intention as far as this action
00:00:38 of Alan Chamartin is concerned. So we have joining the conversation via Zoom, Duke Sasu.
00:00:47 He is a member of the Alan campaign team. He joins the conversation, Duke Sasu. Then
00:00:54 we have Tia Abdo Kabiru Mahama, technical advisor, office of the vice president. Both
00:01:01 of them joined the conversation. Since you are joining us via Zoom, let me just ensure
00:01:07 that you can hear me. Duke, a very good morning to you. A very good morning. How are you sir?
00:01:14 I am well, how about you? I'm great, thank you. It's good to have you join the conversation.
00:01:19 Also in the studio we have Tia Abdo Kabiru Mahama, technical advisor, office of the president.
00:01:27 It's been a while since you joined me on the show. Yes, it's been a while. You've been
00:01:30 absent, AWOL. Maybe you've been absent. I have been absent, yeah. Because I've been
00:01:35 here a couple of times. But I've been in and out, like I said, doing a few things here
00:01:41 and there. So, good to have you join the conversation. Let me start with you, Duke. Alan has given
00:01:50 his reasons for leaving the party. Things not working, injustice, and a plethora of
00:01:59 issues that he cites. And the reaction from the MPP has been one of "Ude de bi anu a rezaini".
00:02:08 This is not your first time. And "We are MPP". There's even that thing floating around of
00:02:16 BJ Darocha from way back, 2008 thereabouts. The first time Alan resigned from the party
00:02:24 that they shouldn't let him back into the party. That he was interested in himself alone.
00:02:32 Here we are at the crossroads again and Alan has jumped ship. Some blue-blooded members
00:02:39 of the MPP say, "This is it. And if you go, don't come back." Can you share with us what
00:02:48 the, as in Trio Uzi, "Ni t'umu po", what the main basis was for Alan quitting the MPP? Why
00:02:58 it is justified? Duke. Once again, a very good morning and a very
00:03:05 good morning to Ghanaians all over the world who are listening to me this morning. I have
00:03:12 a message from Rambo Alan Tremonti. I think this morning he is on TV3 with Bebe Lamundi
00:03:20 for an interview as well. And he's in high spirit and he says, "I should tell the young
00:03:25 people across this country that this movement for change is for them. This movement for
00:03:30 change is one that they will stay ahead. And this movement for change is one that is here
00:03:35 to stay." This question of yours brings about a very
00:03:40 nuanced conversation. Allegiance to a party as against allegiance to a state or a nation.
00:03:49 The question is, should our ultimate allegiance be one that is to a political party or should
00:03:55 that political party be the vehicle to which we issue or we try to advance our interest
00:04:02 or our ambitions for the state? To that extent, we need to have that nuanced conversation
00:04:09 as a people. That we cannot allow political party structures to create a preserve, a right
00:04:19 of ownership of our interest, ownerships of our ambitions and ownership of our loyalty.
00:04:28 So that at every point in time where a certain political party structure becomes in this
00:04:38 functioning, no longer represents the ideals for which you became a member of, it is important
00:04:47 that you peacefully exit that very structure so that you pursue a certain structural narrative
00:04:54 that allows you to represent your intentions or allows you to pursue your dreams that allows
00:05:03 you to function as a rightful citizen of this country.
00:05:08 And so that level of enslavement by political party structures is one that we need to have
00:05:12 everything of us in a nation. And these are conversations that over the coming days and
00:05:17 months, you have massively are recorded in the country. But what I would say is that
00:05:22 we are not in any way vested by the press conference that happened. As a team, we are
00:05:29 much more encouraged to pursue this agenda of a movement for change. And there's a rallying
00:05:35 cry of hundreds of people who have already reached out to volunteer for Honorable Alan
00:05:41 Chairman Ting in this political campaign. So what I can assure you is that you are going
00:05:48 to see probably an active participation of people across the country who are eager to
00:05:54 see change manifest in every part and sector of our country as well.
00:06:00 So you're basically saying the Alan drive is going full steam ahead. But you also know
00:06:08 that there has been that charge. I've listened to Henry Nanabwachi, among others, you know,
00:06:13 suggest that once you lend your support to Alan Chairman Ting, you speak favorably about
00:06:20 him. You are opting out of the NPP. It's immediate and it is final. That would create quite a
00:06:28 problem. Right. And of course, we've heard of Eske Bwafo, who has even on the day said
00:06:33 that he sides with Alan. He's staying with him, which means he would have ousted himself
00:06:37 from the party. We've heard other people do say Dr. Richard Abokumar, I spoke to him yesterday,
00:06:43 also said that, look, I don't feel the party is going in the right direction and I am for
00:06:49 Alan. But isn't it going to be quite a hurdle now that the party has categorically stated
00:06:56 and we've seen others like the deputy finance minister who supported Alan, but has stepped
00:07:03 aside on his decision to go independent. Doesn't it create quite a problem for the Alan camp?
00:07:12 Because now many people will not be willing to leave the NPP to go independent with Alan
00:07:19 and forfeit their membership of the NPP. Well, thank you, but it's a matter of choice. I
00:07:25 think that people have a right to decide on that agenda. And that brings back the conversation
00:07:31 that I commenced my analysis with, as to whether as a nation we should allow party affiliation
00:07:39 to transcend our obligations toward the state. And that's from a quote, that kind of organizational
00:07:48 quote, within which we have built a duopoly of the NDP and NDC around, ought to be interrogated.
00:07:55 And so this conversation will be had. And of course, we'll have people who, for their
00:08:00 interest in terms of trying to sustain the current rules within the party and others,
00:08:07 it would have to, I think strategically, try and publicly say that, well, we can no longer
00:08:13 be a part of a process or with Alan Cherman in that regard. That is allowed. I think that
00:08:18 it is their right. It is, you have every right to do that. But what we cannot lose on the
00:08:23 other hand, in my mind, is that there are hundreds of thousands of people across this
00:08:28 country who are asking for change. They are asking for change that transcends political
00:08:34 affiliation. They are asking for change that transcends ethnic background. And that is
00:08:39 why Honorable Alan Cherman says that I am going to form a government of national unity,
00:08:45 a government where in appointing my ministers of state, I would duly satisfy the provisions
00:08:51 of Article 78 of the Constitution and appoint majority of my ministers from parliament.
00:08:58 However, my appointment of ministers would not be based on party colors. It would be
00:09:03 based on your competence, your credibility, and your character. These are the traits that
00:09:10 you don't need a party card. Also, people from all walks of life, no matter the affiliation
00:09:17 to a party or not, will have the opportunity to serve in my government. They are allowing
00:09:22 people within the private areas of our state to also advance, contribute to the nation-building
00:09:30 approach. So essentially, I don't think in any way, in fact, I can assure you that the
00:09:36 number of calls, the number of volunteers who are trooping in since the press conference
00:09:43 on Monday is amazing. And I'm even, I've been in, about one barrage personally, because
00:09:50 I was expecting some drive, but not within the space of time. And I can show you that
00:09:56 a massive statement will be made during this electoral cycle. And Alan Cherman is in to
00:10:02 win this election. And it has been proven in Benin through Patrice Stallone, Uhuru Kenyatta,
00:10:09 and William Ruto, this same in 2013 in Kenya. Emmanuel Macron, this same in France. And
00:10:14 so we are looking at a new revolution of change that is going to hit this country. And you
00:10:20 are all welcome to join in this very movement.
00:10:23 All right. Just a very brief one before I come into the studio, Mahama, I'll give you
00:10:26 enough time to respond to all of these. I'm just curious about this. The Monarch Butterfly.
00:10:32 I've heard some people say Osunokwa Onguso, na Afafranto. The Monarch Butterfly, what went
00:10:38 into selecting that symbol?
00:10:40 Yes. So the Monarch Butterfly, I think it has to be, so the butterfly, for example,
00:10:47 is one of the most underrated species in terms of biological history, basically. But apart
00:10:57 from the foundational principles that define the Monarch Butterfly, its large influence
00:11:04 in terms of pollination within its bio setup is one that is underrated.
00:11:11 Hello?
00:11:12 The territory. Beyond its territory and its ability to wage an impact, the very climates
00:11:20 are far beyond where it might be situated or located. It's one that is amazingly amazing.
00:11:30 And the impact of the Monarch Butterfly, principally, which is a king of butterflies, is one that
00:11:35 has been underrated throughout our evolutionary history. And so you might be underrated on
00:11:42 Rambla and Chamantina at your own risk, at your own peril. You'd be underrated in a man
00:11:46 of strength and still character and spirituality. Elements that define this very Monarch Butterfly.
00:11:54 And so its traits are ones that you shouldn't underrate at all. The last thing you want
00:11:57 to underrate is a species that has had a large impact within our ecosystem. And so, as has
00:12:06 always been said, I would urge them to continue undermining Alan Chamantin. And in the coming
00:12:12 months, they will surely understand what's this Monarch Butterfly.
00:12:16 They will feel it, huh? Okay. Some would say, though, that thanks to Galamsey and all of
00:12:22 that, you can't even find Monarch Butterflies anymore. But I was thinking we'd also talk
00:12:27 about transformation, change, and how it symbolizes hope as well. Thank you for those initial
00:12:33 comments. Let me come into the studio now. You've heard your colleague. I don't want
00:12:36 to go straight into the questions I have for you, because I know you will definitely have
00:12:40 reactions for Duke. So what are your reactions? They've selected the butterfly. He said everything
00:12:46 about it. And the butterfly, they say, will crush the elephant. What's your take?
00:12:54 Thank you very much. Good morning to my colleague, and good morning to your cherished viewers.
00:13:01 You know, the membership to any association is usually based on what I would call the
00:13:08 law of two feet. The law of two feet. If you are neither contributing nor learning, you
00:13:15 take your two feet away. If you are neither contributing nor learning, you take your two
00:13:20 feet away. Okay. So to that extent, if anyone wants to exit any political party in the nature
00:13:30 Mr. Alan Sherman did, you would just respect that decision of that person. And I fully
00:13:37 respect that. Is that the law of two feet? He's not contributing, he's not learning,
00:13:40 so he's exiting. Is that what you're saying? That is what he's saying. Because if you are
00:13:44 in an association, you either learn from the association or you contribute. So if he feels
00:13:50 that he has nothing to learn in the MPP and he has nothing to contribute to the MPP again,
00:13:57 he leaves. And I think that that is what has informed the decision. No other point has
00:14:01 informed the decision. All other statements made are not the basis. If Mr. Alan Sherman
00:14:08 still felt that he had some contribution to make within the MPP, despite those concerns,
00:14:13 he would remain. If he thought he had something to learn in the MPP, despite the concerns,
00:14:19 he would remain. So that is the first thing. Two, the choice of symbols, the choice of
00:14:25 logo, the choice of slogans to pursue the agenda so determined by Mr. Alan Sherman and
00:14:31 his team is of least concern to us because that is their strategy. All we need to do
00:14:38 is to focus on what we can do differently under the circumstances. I'll be the last
00:14:45 and just like the general secretary mentioned, the fact that Mr. Alan Sherman is no more
00:14:49 with the MPP doesn't mean that we should treat him like an outcast. Of course, it's quite
00:14:57 unfortunate that if you are exiting a political family like the MPP and you would want to
00:15:02 exit with honor, you have to state your reasons without any form of antagonism to suggest
00:15:10 that the very party that made you the person you are, you are exiting it in a very round
00:15:16 cross manner. That is the thing we wanted to avoid in this whole discourse. If you realize
00:15:21 even our team in the run up to the special delegates conference, we're very careful as
00:15:27 to the things you see. And I respect Mr. Alan Sherman. I respect. I have enormous amount
00:15:32 of respect for him because of how he has carried himself. But this decision, I think that is
00:15:37 the most unfortunate. We would just leave him to that decision. And I probably feel
00:15:44 like I mentioned yesterday, it's an end of era. The end of the era that many people,
00:15:50 after some few months, will forget about Mr. Alan Sherman. We'll forget about Mr. Alan
00:15:54 Sherman because the political terrain, the duopoly he has mentioned has come to stay.
00:15:59 And if you will warn, the creation of political parties is not in a way adverse with the spirit
00:16:06 of the constitution. To the extent that someone would argue that national interest supersedes
00:16:12 party interest. The constitution in its own form has created for multi-party democracy.
00:16:19 And if it wasn't for the purpose of people coming together to form party and use the
00:16:24 party as a vehicle to secure power to run the country, the constitution would not provide
00:16:30 for multi-party democracy. In fact, it would have been contemplating multi-persons or multi-personality
00:16:36 or whatever individual aspirations and drive.
00:16:40 But there are two angles to that conversation. I do agree. You cannot even come to this level
00:16:45 and vie for the presidency and all of that without either going independent or attaching
00:16:51 yourself to a political party. In political science back in the day, they would teach
00:16:54 you that these parties are formed in order to ascend to power, wield power, and use it
00:17:02 in the interest of the people. I get that. But at the same time, there arise those situations
00:17:10 where the interest of a party may not necessarily be in line with the interest of the nation.
00:17:17 And this wouldn't be new in the political terrain in Ghana or elsewhere. History is
00:17:23 replete with examples. You cannot fault him for that.
00:17:26 You see, if any individual cannot bring people together to form an association and use that
00:17:32 association to run a country, even if you are giving power under a circumstance, you
00:17:36 may not bring the people together. You can't bring the people together. Because managing
00:17:40 a political party is a macrocosm of a nation. Okay, in my estimation, it would have taken
00:17:46 a test of Mr. Allen Chimwente successfully putting up a party together, letting the party
00:17:51 believe that his vision for running the country, movement for change, is the best, and that
00:17:57 the butterfly symbolized the aspiration of the nation. And if those people, if there
00:18:02 are hundreds of them, 600 of them, 1,000 of them, 1,000, I mean, 200 of them, they so
00:18:07 believe in him, I can have confidence that Mr. Allen Chimwente, if he's giving the nod,
00:18:12 he can manage the people of Ghana. But you are not even comfortable managing a political
00:18:17 party. You are not even comfortable coming to put structures in place across the country
00:18:22 based on that vision that you think that I'm going to be the driver of that vision. Now,
00:18:26 you are saying that I'm going to go as an independent person. Assess me on the behalf
00:18:30 of that independent person and give me the mandate. And I'll lead you and I'll bring
00:18:35 all the parties together and lead them. I think it's the most impossible thought. I
00:18:42 would think that--
00:18:43 But I find your thinking pretty interesting. He's going independent. Must you form a political
00:18:47 party before you can-- there are different avenues per our constitution, per our electoral
00:18:52 rules that he can use to ascend to the presidency. He's adopted one of them. What's this myth
00:18:56 about forming a political party? As an independent candidate, he has his followers, and they
00:19:02 will, if they trust in him, vote for him in election.
00:19:05 As an independent candidate, he would have some followers. And I'm saying that those
00:19:10 followers are following without guidance, if you like. Because it is--
00:19:16 It's their opinion.
00:19:19 It is a fact. It's their preference.
00:19:20 That's what I'm saying. But whatever you are--
00:19:23 Whether you feel without guidance or whatever, it's their preference.
00:19:25 Whatever you are leading people without guidance, without any document suggesting the conduct
00:19:30 of members, OK? And a serious country like Ghana, you are going to lead people without
00:19:36 any guidance, a document to suggest that. Members who believe in me must go by ABCD.
00:19:45 And it is going to be a binding contract between me. And on the basis of what I'm going to
00:19:48 assess any member going out of that. And such a person is coming to lead the republic. I
00:19:54 just feel like there's no seriousness in that.
00:19:56 I see.
00:19:57 That's the greatest respect. I don't feel like-- but you see, the end of any intervention
00:20:02 may not necessarily to win power. OK? And there may be other objectives which the Ghanaian
00:20:08 people have not been-- are not privy to. And it is-- it will only take Mr. Alan Chairman
00:20:15 himself to declare that. Members of his team may not even know because he is only coming.
00:20:20 The ulterior motive behind that, we may not know. So--
00:20:23 Ulterior motive.
00:20:26 How can you sit here and say ulterior motive? Because ulterior is a very negative word to
00:20:31 use. You're basically suggesting vile negativity.
00:20:35 Ulterior motive.
00:20:36 Why would you use that word?
00:20:37 I am saying that the ulterior motive behind that, they may be. They may not be. OK? If
00:20:44 there is, how do we know? If there-- but we can-- a reasonable person wouldn't use the
00:20:49 actions of the person to infer whether the motive, it has some ulterior-- there's some
00:20:55 ulterior motive or not. I will look at the conduct of the person and ask, you've been
00:21:00 in this party since 1992. OK? You have contested an election where the very establishment you
00:21:09 are complaining about supported you, yet you lost. There was no problem with that particular--
00:21:14 He's also contested at a point where he was asked to step aside for some other person--
00:21:19 Yes.
00:21:20 --and he did. And he rightly did. Where that person said, after me, Alan is next. And now
00:21:26 you deceive him out of that and you want him to stand by. Is that what you're saying?
00:21:31 No single person has got the right to determine who is next in this party.
00:21:36 So was it right when the current president said--
00:21:38 I'm saying that the current president probably had expressed an opinion. The president cannot
00:21:44 determine who leads the MPP.
00:21:46 Was it the president now saying that, or was it the agreement at the time, at the top--
00:21:51 And I'm even--
00:21:52 --excellence of the party saying that.
00:21:53 And we know--
00:21:54 This is it.
00:21:55 --most of us, we don't know of any agreement. It would have been in the records book of
00:21:58 the MPP that at this particular point there was this agreement. And if the party structure
00:22:03 has so agreed, I'm sure Mr. Alan Chairman would have had a course of action to suggest
00:22:08 that, look, under that agreement of NEC, National Council or whatever it was, it was agreed
00:22:14 that no contest is going to be held in 2013 to elect a presidential candidate. As a result,
00:22:21 Mr. Alan Chairman is a presumptive candidate for the MPP.
00:22:24 So that's a little--
00:22:25 That would have been.
00:22:26 I get the point you're making, but that also says a lot about the leadership of your party,
00:22:31 or maybe even Mr. President. It means his word cannot be taken for--
00:22:34 I am saying that Mr. President may prefer Mr. Alan Chairman to become the next leader
00:22:40 of the MPP, but that preference is going to be subject to the preference of the structure
00:22:46 of the party and the grassroots.
00:22:48 So if-- and to that extent, if there's any disagreement between his preference and what
00:22:54 the people prefer, the preference of the people will sway. So that's the point I'm making.
00:22:59 So the President might have said that. The President also saying that could also be--
00:23:05 should also be mindful of the circumstances and context. If at the time that that statement
00:23:10 was made, the Ghanaian people had not known any person like the statue of Dr. Mahmoud
00:23:15 Bawumia, they didn't know that Mr. Ken Ajapong would also contest. They didn't know that
00:23:20 Mr. Adai Nima would also contest. And that statement was made. When these people are
00:23:26 not in the equation, that statement is subject to violation.
00:23:32 So that is the point people need to note, that this whole thing about someone saying
00:23:37 that some other person was the next person-- in fact, in the next contest, if MPP should
00:23:43 win the election, Dr. Mahmoud Bawumia cannot determine who would come after him. Okay?
00:23:50 It is the party that's going to determine. So I am of the view that Mr. Alan Chairman
00:23:56 Ting feels like, look, under the current dispensation of the MPP, I'm not able to contribute again.
00:24:02 I have nothing to contribute to the party. I have nothing to learn from the party. I'll
00:24:06 go my way. And that is exactly what he has done.
00:24:09 Okay, hold for me. Let me bring Duke back in. I just saw this post by Alan Chairman
00:24:13 Ting from his verified account on Twitter, or X if you like. He says, "When I am elected
00:24:19 as President, ministers and other key government officials will be appointed from all parties
00:24:24 and shall also include individuals who are apolitical but have a demonstrable and proven
00:24:29 track record of performance in their field of specialization. I will promote the establishment
00:24:34 of a government of national unity." This reminds me of the days of UNIGOV back in the day,
00:24:41 "which will include people from all walks of life, irrespective of their political,
00:24:45 religious, and ethnic affiliations. Rich or poor, able-bodied or physically challenged,
00:24:50 young or old, women and men." And quite a number of likes and shares on that.
00:24:57 But let me come to you first with this bit that Mr. Muhammad makes, the point he makes
00:25:02 that the theory of two feet, if you like. If you have nothing to contribute or nothing
00:25:08 to learn, then you walk away. Is that what happened? Does Alan have nothing to contribute,
00:25:14 nothing to learn from the MPP? Is he bitter and is that why he left? Duke.
00:25:20 Two things. Firstly, let me respectfully address my brother's assertion that Alan's followers
00:25:29 are following without any form of a guidance. Secondly, he talked about the fact that not
00:25:34 creating a party will yield no results. I think my brother lacks a nuanced understanding
00:25:39 of our constitution. Our constitution has a triangle, and within the triangle of the
00:25:46 constitution, it probably clearly needs certain objectives for the state and certain guiding
00:25:52 value for the state, so that any other element in our constitution becomes a subject, a subset,
00:25:59 or it's only supposed to advance the ultimate objective of the state.
00:26:03 Now, so that political parties in general become vehicles within which you can advance
00:26:12 your aspirations for the state. At any point in time, when that vehicle begins to crumble
00:26:20 and no longer represents the ideals for which you joined it, in the interest of national
00:26:27 unity, in the interest of advancing the state interest, you have a moral obligation to step
00:26:34 out of that vehicle and pursue any other vehicle that allows you to contribute credibly and
00:26:41 credibly. The government architecture asks for an individual
00:26:50 to put himself across to run for the presidency. A political party only proposes an individual.
00:27:00 Executive power lies in the president. It doesn't lie in the political party. That is
00:27:06 why I said in my earlier analysis that there needs to be a national conversation on why
00:27:12 we should not allow political parties to capture our allegiance as a people, so that at every
00:27:18 point in time, when a political party and their objectives become counterintuitive to
00:27:24 the objectives of the state, then we need to have a representation as a people in that
00:27:28 regard. That is one. Secondly, to say that the lack of structures,
00:27:33 I think that my brother is a bit not aware of the masterstroke that Alan Chamanthian
00:27:40 has really established. He says that in Australia historically, an independent candidate might
00:27:46 not get a buy-in beyond his person. So what he says is that I am not only running, I am
00:27:53 running a movement, a movement for change. A political organization, not a political
00:27:59 party, but a political organization that will have a structure that allows for people, irrespective
00:28:07 of their ethnic backgrounds, their religious relationships, their political affiliations,
00:28:13 to have to contribute to a national unity agenda. That no longer can you have opportunities
00:28:20 in this country only because of a party card, but simply because you are a Ghanaian. That
00:28:28 should be the primary element of your ability to contribute and to benefit from the state.
00:28:34 And to underestimate that very margin of contribution, then you are surely, surely, surely underestimating
00:28:40 what Alan Chamanthian can do. And that also represents how the butterfly itself is highly
00:28:45 underestimated. But also, let me also refer to the fact that it has been proven right
00:28:51 here in Benin, that an independent candidate, here as an independent candidate, Patrice
00:28:56 Taron, is the current president of Benin. He was an active party member of the ruling
00:29:02 figure government at the time, went into exile, received a presidential pardon, came back
00:29:07 into the country, and under the anti-existence establishment narrative, won the elections
00:29:14 in Benin. To underestimate the power of the people, the power of a people who are crying
00:29:21 for change, change in how things are done, that is problematic.
00:29:27 The next conversation is that, what does Alan Chamanthian represent? There's a man whom
00:29:32 right after he resigned from government, the first thing he did before he even pursued
00:29:40 his political, before he announced, when he announced his political ambition to run for
00:29:45 the leadership of this country, was to put across what he called the great transformational
00:29:49 plan. Never in our history has any candidate advanced his interest towards holding the
00:29:58 presidency of this country by first showing you what his plan is. A plan that is much
00:30:04 more robust than the Marshall Plan of 1948 that revived Europe in general. And Germany,
00:30:13 for example, was revived based on the Marshall Plan. He said that a comprehensive Marshall
00:30:17 Plan of industrialization, of digital mainstreaming, of trying to downsize the government for an
00:30:25 economic and cultural revolution is what we need as a people. He has a message, a message
00:30:31 that transcends your political identity, a message that transcends your ethnic background,
00:30:37 a message that says that whether you are an Ewe, whether you are a Ghan, whether you are
00:30:42 a Dagumba, whether you are a Mampusi, whether you are an Ashanti, wherever you are, whether
00:30:48 you are an Achen as I am, you have a role to play in the building of our country.
00:30:54 Is that part of why, just to explain, is that part of why he is saying, which is a bit interesting,
00:30:59 Unigov back in the day did not work. He is now proposing that even per this post and
00:31:06 what we've heard, he will rope in all parties in terms of appointments and all of that,
00:31:13 those who are apolitical, he's embracing all of them. And interestingly, in terms of appointments,
00:31:19 ministerial appointments and all of that, he's willing to bring in both the NDC and
00:31:23 the MPP. Does that mean then that because as a political party, you must have that sort
00:31:29 of clout, a base. The MPP said they had the men and the women, whether they do now in
00:31:34 the shape our economy and everything is, that's another story. But you must have those people
00:31:41 who can move the machinery of government. If he's only going to come and fall back on
00:31:47 the MPP and the NDC to get these people, how different will it be?
00:31:51 Thank you. So you, let's not underestimate the fact that there are very credible, competent
00:32:00 people on both sides of the political divide. The challenge within our country is that your
00:32:08 ability to form part of a government has been premised on your first and foremost, your
00:32:14 relationship with our political party. The first line of contact has never been your
00:32:21 competence. The first line is that what is your relationship with the political party?
00:32:26 And that is counterintuitive to how you can advance a government of excellence. We have
00:32:31 to say the fact that within the NDC are people of competence. Within the MPP are people of
00:32:37 competence. Outside this political divide are people of enormous competence and resources
00:32:44 who desire to contribute to our national development agenda. The only way that we can develop as
00:32:50 a nation is if we tap into all sides of competence and not limit our selection process of managing
00:32:59 the affairs of the states based on your party card. So that whether you are a member of
00:33:03 parliament in the NDC, in the CPP, in the PP, any political party you are a part of,
00:33:08 that doesn't matter. All that matters is that be competent, be credible, be a person of
00:33:14 character and surely Alan Cheymenta will consider you in his government. And I think that we
00:33:20 are at a point where the state is so polarized that that bridge allows us to actually progress.
00:33:26 And let me say this to our brothers in the NDC. The reason why many people in the NDC
00:33:32 probably might be trooping in for former president John Mahama is mainly because they see him
00:33:39 as a lesser evil to what the MPP is now. That for four years John Mahama was voted out mostly
00:33:49 by the people because they found him to highly not be up to task. Now Mahama's ratings are
00:33:55 so high against the MPP in the government simply because of how things have been managed.
00:34:02 When we provide them an alternative where they can also play a role and they can also
00:34:07 participate fully in government, we have a running cry where people will be willing to
00:34:11 come out in all forces that listen, it is no longer a matter of the lesser evil between
00:34:16 a potential race between the vice president, Alajibawo Muhammad Baba Bamiya, and possibly
00:34:23 John Mahama. But on December 7th you have the option of choosing Alan John Kodotsema
00:34:30 Nteng, a man who has spread his arm that will matter more than one reason.
00:34:34 A man who has also been part of the MPP's governance, first under Kufuor and now for
00:34:41 six years under President Kufuor, who has also been mired in the same things that Ghanaians
00:34:48 are complaining about. He can't detach himself from that, can he?
00:34:56 Hello Duke? Can you hear me Duke? Well it appears Duke is not with us currently. I'll
00:35:07 come into the studio. Blunt question, is the MPP afraid of Alan John Tremateng? Are you
00:35:14 and the vice president, you sit in the vice president's office, is he quaking in his
00:35:18 boots because Alan has stepped aside, it's a seismic shift whether you want to consider
00:35:26 it or not and especially when you were already going into a very tough, tough, tough election
00:35:34 trying to make history by breaking the eight, whatever that means. And now to add to your
00:35:40 woes, to add to the political fortunes of the party that have dwindled, the economic
00:35:47 mess, inflation and everything in between, you have infighting culminating in the resignation
00:35:54 of a juggernaut like Alan Kwejo Tremateng, who is now saying I'm going to now claw back
00:36:00 at you. So vote Nkwa'a Obenyano, Besambe Teso.
00:36:05 The seismic shift at West Etremor is not an earthquake for the MPP. Okay?
00:36:12 I see. I say at West Etremor, it's not an earthquake
00:36:17 of a magnitude and degree that will make the MPP shiver. And Dr Mahmoud Boumer is aware
00:36:26 that to win a political contest you can't get it from waking her from her bed. These
00:36:34 things we are experiencing are bound to happen.
00:36:38 You don't see that happening in the NDC. In 2004 when the Ego Party decided, of course
00:36:46 we know where it came from, then they formed the Grand Coalition. They got 1.9% of the
00:36:52 votes led by I think it's Mahama, Nsingri Mahama, almost 2%. That cost the NDC. It cost
00:37:01 the NDC almost 2% of the votes. Even if Alan is getting 2%, that's 2% that you can't afford
00:37:07 to lose. The fact is that you are assuming that he's
00:37:10 going to get 2% of the MPP's vote. What I mean from their analysis.
00:37:15 2% of any vote. It cannot be without impact.
00:37:18 It is to our advantage. Oh, okay.
00:37:22 Okay. So for me, the final analysis, history has also shown that even the party headquarters
00:37:29 is just here. NDP. I don't know whether they have moved.
00:37:34 It was an offshoot of the NDC, right? In 2010. Okay, but in 2012, they still won their political
00:37:45 power. Okay. So for me, a lot of things will come into
00:37:50 the analysis. It's quite unfortunate that Mr. Chairman,
00:37:54 even if you lose a single member, as a member of the MPP, you'll be concerned that a single
00:38:00 member is leaving our fold. Even let's assume that he was not going with any member of the
00:38:05 MPP. So we are concerned about that. But we are of the view that MPP has gone through
00:38:10 much more turbulent situation and has weathered the storm and has come out successfully.
00:38:16 Even on the back of 2016 election, we had to take a very difficult decision of suspending
00:38:23 the party chairman and the party general secretary and went ahead and won the election.
00:38:30 People have thought that it was a very unpopular decision and that decision, people thought
00:38:34 that was going to be the final nail on the coffin of the MPP, but we won the election.
00:38:41 On the election year, Mr. Kofor's campaign coordinator, campaign manager, Alaa Jinusa,
00:38:47 even in 2000, Mr. Kofor took the decision and went for the contest, embracing the challenges
00:38:54 and won massively. Okay, we have...
00:38:58 You know the dynamics are not the same. Dynamics are not the same.
00:39:02 The charge was in favour of the MPP at the time, all the way from 1992.
00:39:06 Yes. Now...
00:39:07 The charge is against the MPP. Now, let's look at that. Why would we say the
00:39:10 charge is against it? Because the MPP has got eight years. And with the notion...
00:39:14 It's not just that. It's about the performance that people are seeing.
00:39:17 No, even if you are going to compare performance between MPP and NDC, on the back of the challenges,
00:39:23 MPP can still be able to install the records of the...
00:39:26 Your words. I don't want us to go down that road.
00:39:27 Okay. No, no. It is the data. I think it's...
00:39:29 It is the data. Which data?
00:39:32 We are seeing the highest inflation in two decades.
00:39:35 I'm saying that. Thereabout.
00:39:36 That's where we've been. We've gone to the island.
00:39:38 We've borrowed more than any other country since then.
00:39:41 The problem with your analysis is that... You want to tell me about...
00:39:43 The problem with your analysis is that your analysis is problematic because you use static performance.
00:39:47 The government has performed eight years. You have to use the performance over the eight years.
00:39:51 If you use a single month, you are basically out of gear.
00:39:54 Which single month am I using?
00:39:56 If you use a single month of inflation, 30%.
00:40:00 This? You are being...
00:40:02 Inflation is not 30%, by the way. Inflation is about 40%.
00:40:05 I'm saying that. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.
00:40:07 Let's do this. Let's not run around for...
00:40:08 Okay. Let's do it bit by bit so the people watching us can understand.
00:40:12 Inflation currently sits around 40.1%.
00:40:15 Okay.
00:40:16 Okay?
00:40:16 Okay.
00:40:17 Food inflation is one of the highest on the continent of Africa.
00:40:20 It's okay. It's okay.
00:40:21 Let me make my point.
00:40:22 I'm following you.
00:40:24 Your prices, one of the highest you would find on the continent of Africa.
00:40:29 Our economic woes, we've borrowed more than all the administrations since independence put together up to now.
00:40:36 And interestingly, even as inflation is at 40.1%,
00:40:40 this is the best we've done in close to a year, in about 11 months.
00:40:44 We've hit...
00:40:45 Hold on.
00:40:46 We've hit above 50%.
00:40:47 Do you know what this means?
00:40:48 Do you understand what this means?
00:40:49 So let me tell you what it means.
00:40:50 And I've given...
00:40:51 You are schooled in economics.
00:40:52 I have...
00:40:53 I've given you the benefit of raising them and I'll answer them one at a time.
00:40:56 Right.
00:40:57 Okay.
00:40:57 One, you've used inflation now.
00:41:00 And you are going to use the inflation for this month to judge a government that has performed for six months.
00:41:05 I mean, for six years, for eight years.
00:41:08 It is not going to be being genius to the facts.
00:41:11 That is pure ingenuity.
00:41:13 To use a government inflation for a single month, which is 40, to say that the government is doing bad.
00:41:19 Or on the back of that particular month.
00:41:21 I cannot get your analysis.
00:41:22 Can I make my point?
00:41:24 The best you've had in a year is this.
00:41:27 No, that's not the best we've had in a year.
00:41:29 Inflation has been over 50%.
00:41:31 It is wrong.
00:41:32 In about 11 months, this is the best.
00:41:35 It is not...
00:41:36 The 40.1%.
00:41:37 This argument shouldn't go there.
00:41:39 So you are contradicting what the Ghana statistics also have been telling you.
00:41:42 I am contesting the fact that when you are going to measure the MPP's performance against the NDC's performance,
00:41:47 you are going to use their performance for eight years.
00:41:50 Right.
00:41:50 As against the MPP's performance for eight years.
00:41:52 You will not be doing that on a single month or a single year.
00:41:55 That's the point I'm making.
00:41:56 Okay.
00:41:57 Okay.
00:41:57 Let me bring it...
00:41:57 So...
00:41:58 Let me bring it to the conversation.
00:41:59 That should be the angle we should be making this.
00:42:02 You are a maker of growth.
00:42:03 You have to use our growth.
00:42:04 You have made a real impression that we have borrowed more than a single government.
00:42:08 Of course, yes.
00:42:09 Volumes, that is true.
00:42:11 Right.
00:42:11 But have you gone to do analysis of the project that this government has done with those projects?
00:42:14 Which projects?
00:42:16 The interchanges that have been constructed.
00:42:17 No government has...
00:42:18 So now, interchanges are important.
00:42:20 I am telling you...
00:42:21 I am telling you...
00:42:21 No, you asked for some projects.
00:42:24 Okay?
00:42:24 You asked for projects.
00:42:25 I thought interchanges were irrelevant.
00:42:26 You asked for projects and I'm educating you on the projects.
00:42:29 Unless of course you are saying that it is not relevant...
00:42:31 Interchanges, right?
00:42:31 It is not relevant...
00:42:32 Yes.
00:42:33 Interchanges.
00:42:33 Yes.
00:42:34 We have contracted more airports.
00:42:35 Okay?
00:42:36 Airports.
00:42:36 Airports.
00:42:37 Which ones?
00:42:38 Who?
00:42:38 Who?
00:42:39 You know, Kumasi is there.
00:42:40 Tamal is there.
00:42:42 Okay.
00:42:42 Okay.
00:42:42 You hold on.
00:42:43 We will come back to this.
00:42:44 So we can keep...
00:42:44 I don't want us to lose your Deputy General Secretary.
00:42:47 We have him on the line.
00:42:48 I will come back to that point.
00:42:49 So you walk me through the others.
00:42:51 Haruna Mohammed is a Deputy General Secretary of the MPP and he joins the conversation.
00:42:59 Thank you for joining us, sir.
00:43:02 Thank you, my brother.
00:43:04 So, we've got to this forked road, if you like, where some people are going left, others are going right.
00:43:13 And some are siding with a certain Alan Kwadjo Chiramating.
00:43:17 Your party has come out to say that...
00:43:19 I'm looking at page 13 of the Daily Graphic today, that his resignation was premeditated.
00:43:24 It was some sort of plot and that he should have made the party aware that he was going down this road.
00:43:29 I've heard of calls that were made to him by the leadership of the party, but he's gone down this road.
00:43:33 Now, let me be blunt.
00:43:35 Dr. Richard A. Mwakoba, a political scientist, says this move by Alan simply means you are not going to break anything.
00:43:42 You are not breaking any eight.
00:43:43 You are losing election 2024.
00:43:46 Professor Kwame Mensah says the same thing.
00:43:50 And then we have this issue of hijacking the party.
00:43:54 Dr. Kwame Asa Asante of the University of Ghana says there are issues in your party to address when it comes to that.
00:44:00 And he cites Kwame Pienim from yesterday, also saying that, indeed, your party has been hijacked by a few individuals.
00:44:07 How do you respond to this?
00:44:10 Thank you very much, Reynard, for this particular question.
00:44:15 First and foremost, I want to extend my greetings to your viewership and also Dr. Kabir in your studio.
00:44:23 It's very unfortunate that you are members of our party who either too would have wished to make sure that the good image that is enshrined in the party's constitution is what they project.
00:44:37 But they move on to make this a guided statement which are not based on facts and that cannot test the test of time.
00:44:45 I don't know which Dr. Mwakoba you are talking about.
00:44:48 If it is the same person that I know, the same person who doesn't believe in the positive performance of the MPP.
00:44:57 And I am not surprised that he says that there is nothing to break.
00:45:01 Remember, the MPP has a leadership and the leadership of the Nipah Party have to take a decision to break the aid.
00:45:09 And we have the strategy and the work to make sure that we break this particular aid.
00:45:15 We have responded to couples of statements that have been raised by Mr. Alan Kodjo-Jomansen on point of law and precedent.
00:45:25 And it is clear that either he did not understand the constitutional provisions in the party's rule and the performance of the National Council.
00:45:35 He says we hijacked the political party. Some people have hijacked the party.
00:45:40 The General Secretary had explained in detail the number of people who selected the presidential candidates.
00:45:47 And this is something that he himself is very much aware that even in the last election that we have just done on it in the Syria,
00:45:55 about 900 and something plus went to vote.
00:45:59 So how could somebody sit and hijack 900 and something?
00:46:03 All of us are well aware. And he was having the outcome to that particular election.
00:46:08 The General Secretary took us to the memory lane of how elections were done and how electoral college has been expanded.
00:46:15 So it is very unfortunate for somebody to see that somebody has expanded, has hijacked a political party.
00:46:24 So you're telling me that stalwarts like Kwame Pienaar and in fact even Nyaho Nyaho Tamaklo, who some of you...
00:46:32 Nyaho Nyaho Tamaklo is a suspended member of our party.
00:46:35 He is a founding member of your party, whether some of you say he is not a member now or not.
00:46:39 He is a founding member of your party.
00:46:42 Right.
00:46:43 Yes.
00:46:44 So, OK, let's even pretend he's not a member of the MPP.
00:46:47 He's a citizen of this country. He can share his opinion.
00:46:50 He says that Alan should have even gone ahead to mention those who are hijacking, names of those hijacking the party.
00:46:57 He was dissatisfied with that.
00:46:59 You're telling me the likes of Kwame Pienaar with his pedigree, knowing I don't need to tell you who Kwame Pienaar is,
00:47:05 are saying that the party is indeed hijacked by a few individuals.
00:47:10 And from where you sit, nothing like that is going on.
00:47:13 So Alan was totally off the trajectory, right?
00:47:17 You want to tell me that Kwame Pienaar doesn't have the right to his opinion.
00:47:23 And you want to tell me that the opinion of Kwame Pienaar is to spend a certain amount of time to represent the entirety of the MPP?
00:47:31 Not necessarily, but I'm also saying that would you not count it as crucial if someone like him says something like that?
00:47:38 That is his opinion. That's what I'm saying. We don't deal with opinions.
00:47:41 OK.
00:47:42 He's bringing his opinion and what he's saying is not the facts.
00:47:46 That is what the party is saying. It's not a fact.
00:47:49 Could he be part of those who hijacked the party?
00:47:52 When he was chief of staff, did he hijack the party?
00:47:56 When Alan was contesting and the system, including him, was supporting Alan, did they hijack the party?
00:48:03 When they were attacking MMDC, Zabuzugu DC, Mr. Bukhari, was that because he was not supporting Alan?
00:48:09 Was it because somebody hijacked the party?
00:48:12 Please, this party belongs to a number of people.
00:48:15 This party is a democratic party.
00:48:18 Everybody's opinion matters.
00:48:20 Let's allow everybody to express their opinion.
00:48:23 And when the majority carries a date, the person wins.
00:48:26 All right. I'll put to you the same question I put to Mahama in the studio.
00:48:31 Is the MPP afraid now that Alan has decided to step aside?
00:48:37 Some say Kennedy and Yapon promised a showdown, but Alan has given the first showdown.
00:48:44 Did you check the demeanor of the general secretary when he was in the press conference?
00:48:49 The MPP is not safe at all.
00:48:52 That is why we say we are the MPP.
00:48:56 We are not dissatisfied in any manner, but we wish that this never comes.
00:49:02 But the MPP will move on to clinch onto political power.
00:49:07 That is exactly what we are going to do.
00:49:09 Democratically, that is what we are going to do.
00:49:12 When you are faced with the challenge, it is left with you to prepare yourself and meet the challenge
00:49:18 and make sure that you distinguish yourself and prove to the whole world
00:49:22 that you are a resolute party, a corporate institution
00:49:27 that believes that you will be able to solve your own problem.
00:49:30 We are not going to behave like John Mahama, who wrote in his own book, "My Third Coup D'Etat,"
00:49:35 that as a young man riding a bicycle down the lane, he could not make a decision on his own.
00:49:40 The MPP will take a decision,
00:49:43 and that decision is going to make sure that we win political power in 2024.
00:49:49 Let's look at how much damage this likely will do to the MPP.
00:49:54 You do say that the MPP will stand.
00:49:57 You are the MPP.
00:49:59 He has chosen the symbol of a monarch butterfly,
00:50:03 and Duke Sassou, who is on hand, actually walked us through the symbolism of that.
00:50:10 But political watchers have said, especially from taking into context where Alan hails from,
00:50:17 the Ashanti region, and the sway he has, it could cost you big time in that region,
00:50:24 especially considering that any time you score under 75% in the general election,
00:50:31 it bodes trouble for the MPP.
00:50:33 Any votes taken by Alan, whether from the NDC or the MPP,
00:50:38 but knowing his stock, likely from the MPP according to political watchers,
00:50:43 will do some damage to the party.
00:50:46 What is your thinking on that? What is your reading?
00:50:48 First and foremost, if you look at where Alan comes from, if you say the Ashanti region,
00:50:53 the general secretary of the party is coming from Ashanti region.
00:50:57 The national organizer is coming from Ashanti region.
00:51:00 The national treasurer is coming from Ashanti region.
00:51:03 That tells you that the MPP means a lot to get a lot of the votes from the Ashanti region.
00:51:08 That is the operational blood of the party.
00:51:10 And I believe that these people are very young people
00:51:14 who have resonated well with the youth of the Ashanti region,
00:51:17 who have worked through with them, who have stayed committed to them.
00:51:22 And the Ashanti region has always been the region that supported the party very greatly.
00:51:29 If you go and see the NAD in Ashanti region, in terms of the support for the new patrotic party,
00:51:35 I am going to tell you that we are going to score more than 70% of the votes.
00:51:40 We have a strategy, and our strategy is within our circle, that we are going to make it.
00:51:45 And I want to make this particular point very clear,
00:51:48 that the MPP has not changed what we want to do in 2024.
00:51:54 Yes, we may have that particular challenge of Alan existing,
00:51:59 but ask yourself, if an eagle could not do anything to an elephant, what more of a butterfly?
00:52:05 Elephants are going to stand on the ground.
00:52:07 If you want to trace the history of symbols,
00:52:11 it will tell you that the elephant, the elephant that we all know,
00:52:15 when the elephant falls in the bush, and myself, you, we are going to cut our meat and go home.
00:52:22 I may even finish cutting, and then I will get to the house,
00:52:25 and I will not even know that you were out of that.
00:52:27 The elephant serves a lot of purpose.
00:52:29 What does the elephant even do in the bush?
00:52:31 Please, in choosing a symbol, that is very, very important for us to be able to do that.
00:52:35 But he has his democratical right to do so,
00:52:39 and we acknowledge his contribution to the new patrotic party.
00:52:41 We respect him.
00:52:42 We are not going to attack him.
00:52:44 We are not going to insult him.
00:52:45 But if he doesn't want to be responded to, then he should stop making negative news.
00:52:52 Else, if he says something about the MPP, we will respond to him,
00:52:56 because the constitution of the new patrotic party says so,
00:53:00 that we protect the new patrotic party, the good image of the party, and to protect it.
00:53:05 And that is exactly what we are going to do.
00:53:07 And point on, we have a president, we have a vice president, we have ministers.
00:53:11 Any of them that is in attack is an attack on the party and government,
00:53:15 and the new patrotic party will come and defend this particular party,
00:53:20 the sanctity of our democracy, and project forward to win the 2024 general election.
00:53:24 All right, Haruna, we're grateful that you took the time to join the conversation,
00:53:27 and we wish you the very best.
00:53:30 Haruna Mohammed is a deputy general secretary of the new patriotic party.
00:53:35 Let me come back and wrap with my two guests on this subject matter,
00:53:39 as we move on to another crucial matter,
00:53:42 which has to do with Albert Kandapa and Oliver Bakavomao,
00:53:47 with that claim of $1 million.
00:53:48 But before we get there, you were going to tell me about the MPP's projects,
00:53:53 which sort of substantiate.
00:53:55 I'm sure you've had enough time to look up as many as possible.
00:54:00 That can be substantiated by the gargantuan sums of money that we've borrowed.
00:54:06 Yeah, I don't even need time to go through that, because most of them...
00:54:11 You mentioned interchanges.
00:54:12 I think that we've constructed more rules than any other government from the money.
00:54:16 Again, I will not be tempted to go down that route.
00:54:19 But the problem is that,
00:54:23 we don't want...
00:54:24 The high contestations on Accent there.
00:54:26 We don't have the time to go down that road.
00:54:28 So if we don't have the time to go down...
00:54:31 You are contesting...
00:54:32 I'm saying that I will not go into detail on that,
00:54:34 because that is a whole conversation on its own.
00:54:37 Resurfacing and all of that has to be...
00:54:39 It's a conversation on the MPP's record.
00:54:41 I mean, I'm always...
00:54:42 No, I just want you to list as many as you can.
00:54:44 I'm always available. I can give you the list.
00:54:46 I mean, if you indulge me, I can...
00:54:49 I thought you could do this without...
00:54:51 No, I can do that, but you are saying that you want me to give you the list.
00:54:54 Of course, I've mentioned interchanges, which has never been done.
00:54:57 Meaning of the search,
00:54:59 this government has constructed more rules.
00:55:00 I've mentioned secondary schools.
00:55:03 Apart from the STEM schools that have come into the fold,
00:55:06 we have constructed more classrooms.
00:55:07 Okay?
00:55:08 This government has done more when it comes to agriculture.
00:55:11 Okay?
00:55:12 Despite the problem you have mentioned about food inflation in the agriculture sector.
00:55:16 This government has done a lot when it comes to...
00:55:19 What do you call it?
00:55:21 What's the name?
00:55:23 Rail sector.
00:55:25 For the first time, we are seeing the pictures.
00:55:28 Thema Mpakandang Railway Line.
00:55:31 This government is the only government that has ensured that
00:55:34 we have some state-of-the-art rail facility across the country.
00:55:38 We have mentioned so many universities.
00:55:41 It's been constructed.
00:55:42 This government made sure that that has been done.
00:55:45 We are making sure that, in fact, on the expenditure side,
00:55:48 when you talk of money, people will say, "You don't take it for infrastructure."
00:55:51 But we have sustained the health insurance that, up to date,
00:55:54 unlike the previous government where there were areas,
00:55:57 up to date, we are staying current on the payment of livelihood services.
00:56:01 That is the money we are getting.
00:56:02 We are making sure we are staying up to date in terms of financing our free SNS school.
00:56:05 That is money.
00:56:07 We have recruited more people than the NDC in power.
00:56:10 That is money.
00:56:11 They are over two million people who are coming to vote.
00:56:13 Do you remember?
00:56:14 I have a simple question for you, but before I get to that question,
00:56:18 you spoke about the rail systems and all of that.
00:56:20 Whatever happened to the SkyTrain?
00:56:22 When are we getting it?
00:56:23 I mean, that probably, the details of such will have to be,
00:56:26 the Ministry for Railways would have the details of that.
00:56:29 As I sit now, I don't have the details of what is the demand.
00:56:32 I remember when you asked.
00:56:33 Will it ever materialize?
00:56:35 Depending on the financing arrangement, for now, there's a clock.
00:56:38 There's a clock on financing over the challenges we are having currently.
00:56:42 Influence of, and even there's a limit of what government can add on to the debt stock.
00:56:46 That is going to affect several years.
00:56:49 Still, within two months, you've been able to add 6.3 billion to the public debt.
00:56:53 So, we are...
00:56:54 But you see, the problem with such analysis is that you are forgetting that
00:56:58 part of the amount coming is from the IMF concessional loan.
00:57:01 You see, so that is a problem we have.
00:57:03 That when you sign a program, and the program is giving you money,
00:57:07 you don't use it and say that still government is saying they are not going to borrow,
00:57:10 they are going to borrow.
00:57:11 Meanwhile, they have forgotten that it was a program we signed on to.
00:57:14 And part of the program was to give you a concessional funding.
00:57:17 So, we shouldn't use those as a basis to hang government.
00:57:21 You know, you know very well that this is money coming in anyway,
00:57:25 as a result of the program.
00:57:26 So, if you sit down to use it to hang government, you are being mischievous.
00:57:30 I am being mischievous.
00:57:31 No, you are, because you know that.
00:57:32 You know what I was going to ask you?
00:57:34 In spite of all these things you say you have done,
00:57:37 I mean, we could go into health and Agenda 111 and everything.
00:57:41 Now we are hearing that dialysis is going to shoot up even in public institutions,
00:57:44 from 300 cities to 800 cities thereabouts.
00:57:47 Let's not even get there.
00:57:48 When you go on the streets, okay, and you engage the ordinary man,
00:57:51 and ask, okay, so we have borrowed all of this.
00:57:54 How do you feel this has impacted your life?
00:57:57 I think as a party, don't let the media do it.
00:57:59 You may think we are whatever.
00:58:01 Sometimes you come and you think we are being skewed.
00:58:03 You should do it yourself as a party.
00:58:05 Go out there on the streets and speak to people.
00:58:07 And these claims that you are making, run them by the people and find out,
00:58:10 because when we speak to them, what they tell us is very different.
00:58:15 I agree. I agree that the ordinary Ghanaians on the streets,
00:58:20 and the people we are likely to interview on the streets,
00:58:24 are feeling the pinch of the economic crisis we are having.
00:58:28 And no one should take away that particular sense of difficulty from the people.
00:58:35 And if they so complain, it will be genuine for us in government to admit,
00:58:40 and take whatever measures possible to ameliorate that difficulty.
00:58:44 That's my position, and that's the position of the president and the government.
00:58:47 Okay.
00:58:48 But it is also insensitive and lack of recognition of government's effort
00:58:54 to jettison all the good things government have done.
00:58:56 Imagine this difficulty.
00:58:57 Parents were still going to be paying their war school fees.
00:59:00 Imagine this difficulty if the cash and credit system was back to operation.
00:59:05 Imagine this difficulty if the poor, the vulnerable,
00:59:09 who are benefitting from things, parents paying for...
00:59:12 Have you paid attention to some of the things they are having to pay for,
00:59:15 even in the midst of free SHS?
00:59:17 I agree.
00:59:17 You're talking about cash and credit.
00:59:19 When was the last time you went to hospital and used your national health insurance?
00:59:22 All the time I go to the hospital, I use my...
00:59:24 Are you being serious?
00:59:24 I'm being serious, because...
00:59:26 Look, go out there, don't go far, go to the very entrance of the school and ask people.
00:59:31 If you are not using your health insurance...
00:59:33 If you are not using...
00:59:34 I'm saying if you are not using it, it is your discretion.
00:59:37 Really?
00:59:38 I'm telling you, the health insurance system is working,
00:59:41 and people are using it to subsidize for their health care provision.
00:59:46 So, I'm just saying, even the provision the parents are paying,
00:59:48 imagine they are going to buy that at the same time paying their war school fees.
00:59:53 Right.
00:59:53 Okay, so you cannot belittle or diminish the impact of the intervention government.
00:59:58 But, so let's come back to the topic.
01:00:00 We have to end.
01:00:01 I want to go to Duke, but when I go to Duke, that will be the end.
01:00:03 So, I want you to wrap up.
01:00:05 So, this move by Alan, what is it going to mean for the MPP moving forward?
01:00:11 What does this mean, basically?
01:00:13 As your wrap-up comment, and then I go to Duke.
01:00:15 Basically, again, I already tried to find out this.
01:00:17 Unfortunately, Mr. Alan is going.
01:00:19 We wish he still remained and contributed.
01:00:21 But, like I said, if he feels he has nothing to contribute and has taken the decision to leave,
01:00:25 we have no option but to allow him to leave.
01:00:28 What it means, basically, is that MPP members who want to follow him,
01:00:34 basically will forfeit their membership.
01:00:36 And we'll have to measure the extent of the loss and see in what areas we have to make it up for.
01:00:41 There are other people in the NDC who are disillusioned, who feel that John Mahama is not the option.
01:00:47 And they want to find a new hope, a new leader who can associate with them.
01:00:51 We'll look up to that and see whether we can get a number.
01:00:54 We are also having to make a lot of impact in the north, because that's the stronghold.
01:00:59 Even in the Fulton region, those are the strongholds of the NDP, I mean of the NDC.
01:01:02 MPP will have to look and see how much more votes we can rake in from those particular areas.
01:01:07 At the end of the day, I'm also counting on the dynamics that will play when the two leaders come face to face.
01:01:15 At the end of the day, we know that Dr Mahmoud Baboumia is going to win.
01:01:18 And we know that the NDC has already presented John Mahama.
01:01:22 We know that Mr Alan Chiamate is going to be on the ballot.
01:01:25 At the end of the day, we have three candidates at least, we can be certain that these people will be on the ballot.
01:01:33 We will then look at the personality of this, who has the potential of bringing this power, who can deliver,
01:01:38 who is much more a young person, who understands the concerns of the youth.
01:01:42 These are all factors we have to capitalize on and make sure that we win.
01:01:46 For the focus of our campaign is that, look, Dr Mahmoud Baboumia is not yet over for us.
01:01:52 November 4th is still at the corner.
01:01:55 We take one thing at a time.
01:01:57 Because who knows, even though out of the proprietors of the several evidence and facts and even research we've done,
01:02:05 it shows that Mr Mahmoud Baboumia is going to win the election.
01:02:09 Sure, sure. Let me just ask you this, lest I forget, very briefly, just give me a straightforward answer.
01:02:13 So if election 2024 happens, the presidential election, and it goes into a runoff,
01:02:20 let's assume, Alan gets a chunk of the votes, maybe 5%, 7%, 10%, 12%, and that is how it goes.
01:02:29 Will you now try to bring him back? Will you try to get him to support the MPP?
01:02:36 It's a runoff. It depends on the number of people also in the contest.
01:02:42 If at the end of the day there are people together who makes up to maybe 20%,
01:02:47 and Alan is making 15%, and we get the 20%, Alan's votes may not be necessary.
01:02:52 But in that crucial situation, you need everyone.
01:02:55 But you are not getting him into the MPP. You are getting him to support the MPP.
01:03:00 So his support you will take. But for him...
01:03:04 But he said if in the unlikely event he is elected as president, he needs the support of the MPP. He said it.
01:03:09 Their spokesperson said it. So at any point we need the support of any other person.
01:03:14 So you will still want to fall on Alan Kodjoe-Chamartine?
01:03:16 Duke, you have the final say. Quick reactions and your final thoughts and then it's a wrap.
01:03:21 [phone rings]
01:03:23 Is that Duke?
01:03:25 Yeah, right here. Can you hear me?
01:03:26 Yes, I can. Please go ahead.
01:03:29 I'm wondering right now, how did you get here as a nation?
01:03:33 For example, the Jolobi protests started and for three days,
01:03:38 we did not get any official statement from the party, the MPP,
01:03:42 questioning the fact that how did we get here as a nation.
01:03:45 Alan Kodjoe-Chamartine resigns and there's a press conference.
01:03:48 It tells you it's your priority.
01:03:51 If you deny yourself, if you are in a self-denial of the state of our economy,
01:03:57 being championed by the vice president, Alaj Mbamudu-Bamiya,
01:04:01 then there's a problem in this country.
01:04:03 And my final words are this.
01:04:05 To young people across this country listening to me this morning,
01:04:09 the Ashanti region, from the northern region, from the southern sector,
01:04:13 wherever you are from, no matter your political affiliation,
01:04:16 whether you are NDC and you are also peeped about how His Excellency John Dramani-Mahama
01:04:23 has led this country and has nothing new to offer,
01:04:26 and how the incumbent MPP government is running the affairs of this country,
01:04:31 you have an opportunity to be a part of a movement that will transform
01:04:36 the future of this country, that will transform this nation.
01:04:39 A man with a plan by name Allan John Kodjo-Chamartine,
01:04:43 a plan he calls the Great Transformational Plan,
01:04:46 a plan that is at the level of the Marshall Plan, far greater indeed,
01:04:50 is saying that he's inviting you on board, a movement that he wants you to champion,
01:04:54 a movement that you champion, a movement for change,
01:04:57 a movement that will awaken all the people who are in self-denial
01:05:01 to understand that power resides with the people of this country
01:05:05 and that our ultimate allegiance as a people is to the state
01:05:09 and not to a quote establishment of a political party in any form.
01:05:15 Come and join this organisation and let's pursue an agenda called We Are Ghana.
01:05:20 Ghana will rise again. Thank you.
01:05:23 Thank you very much.
01:05:24 So it's going to be quite the showdown, depending on which political parties
01:05:29 take up the mantle and go through the easy processes ahead of election 2024.
01:05:33 But we know for certain that the monarch butterfly will be there,
01:05:38 the elephant will be there and the umbrella.
01:05:40 Who wins? That verdict belongs to you, the people.
01:05:44 Well, thank you for joining the conversation this morning.
01:05:47 We've had joining us in the studio.
01:05:51 And let me just get the details of that.
01:05:54 Tia Abdul Kabir Muhammad, Technical Advisor, Office of the Vice President.
01:05:59 We have also had Duke Sassou, you just heard him a short while ago,
01:06:03 member of Alan Kwejicharmatin's campaign team.
01:06:07 We were also joined by Haruna Muhammad, Deputy General Secretary of the NPP.
01:06:13 Well, stay with us. When we return, we'll be heading to Bwipe in the Savannah region.
01:06:19 That area flooded. And it's interesting.
01:06:22 The Bwipo authority says we've not spilled water,
01:06:26 but water still keeps getting into the community.
01:06:29 There's been no rain. So where is the water coming from?
01:06:32 It has displaced a thousand five hundred plus people.
01:06:35 We'll be getting into that story up next on The AM Show. Do stay.
01:06:39 (Music)