Brussels, my love? Déjà vu - Europe's migration muddle
In this edition of our talk show Brussels, my love?, we discuss the EU's response to the migration crisis on the Italian island of Lampedusa and the EU's dream to have zero pollution by 2050.
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00:00 Hello there and welcome to Bruxelles, je t'aime, Euronews' weekly talk show about European
00:18 news. On Brussels, my love, we take a look at some of the news stories of the week and
00:24 hear what it's like for you and for Europe. I'm Maeve McMahan, thanks for joining us.
00:29 Coming up this week, Maloney's migration conundrum. Thousands of migrants have landed on the tiny
00:35 touristy island of Lampedusa, outnumbering the local population and causing uproar among
00:40 residents. The EU Commission president visited the island, promising that a European solution
00:46 would be given to a European problem. But ten years after the Lampedusa migrant shipwreck
00:51 tragedy, we ask if that's even possible. And it's been called the silent pandemic. Air
00:58 pollution, that disgusting sensation in your nose you may be familiar with if you live
01:03 in a congested city like Rome, Paris or Brussels. MEPs voted on a revised law to improve air
01:10 quality in the EU, but delayed aligning with World Health Organization guidelines until
01:14 2035. We check what this all means for our health, but also how road users are feeling
01:20 about this green wave. With our panel this week, Lucas Mandl, Austrian MEP from the European
01:26 People's Party. Thanks for having me. Rebecca Christie from the economic think tank Bruegel.
01:30 Welcome. Glad to be back. And Matteo Albania from the public affairs firm Must and Partners.
01:36 Thank you. How are you all doing? How was your week? Nice and busy. Nice and busy. Well,
01:42 in just a minute, I will get your thoughts on those stories we mentioned. But first,
01:45 I'd like to just remind our viewers why the European Commission president Ursula von der
01:50 Leyen spent last weekend in Lampedusa. It is the movie we have watched too many times
01:56 before. Thousands of migrants in cramped conditions on the island of Lampedusa and finger pointing
02:02 from all sides on what to do and how. To show Europe cares, the EU Commission president
02:08 Ursula von der Leyen stood side by side with Italy's Giorgia Maloney. In her pocket, a
02:14 10 point plan of support from helping to redistribute new arrivals to potentially expanding naval
02:19 missions in the Mediterranean. The plan is a mix of old and new ideas, but it's vague
02:24 and needs backing from EU capitals to work. For now, Italy has brought in its own measures.
02:32 It will build detention centers and detain migrants for up to 18 months. Begging the
02:36 question amidst this new Italian emergency, why are European heads of state taking so
02:41 long to adopt and finalize a proper EU migration pact?
02:48 So there you are again, thousands of people arriving in Europe, but still no coordinated
02:52 plan. Lucas Mantle, perhaps we'll start with yourself. What is the reaction been over in
02:57 the European Parliament to this and as well to the response of the Italian Prime Minister?
03:01 Well, actually, in the Home Affairs Committee of the European Parliament, we have been negotiating
03:07 on the migration package since 2020, exactly three years now, and it's still not done.
03:14 There were mistakes in the Parliament, but there were also mistakes in the European Council
03:18 of the Member States Governments. Actually, this week, again, there was a backslash due
03:22 to the behavior of the Member States Governments. We need a solution. That's why I appreciate
03:27 that Maloney immediately asked for the line to come, because it's responsible for Europe
03:34 in its entirety, not only for this or that Member State. We know that and we have known
03:39 that for many years. But again and again, Member States were left alone, different Member
03:43 States for different reasons in the past. And that's the first Italian Prime Minister
03:48 who is acting differently because other Prime Ministers criticized the EU. But this lady
03:52 Prime Minister, I would say, immediately took into the responsibility for the line herself
03:57 and she had to come.
03:58 Let's bring in the perspective then from Rebecca Chrissie, how you've been digesting this story.
04:03 And of course, we mentioned the finger pointing and it's still happening this very week in
04:06 Brussels.
04:07 Migration is an issue that feels very of the moment because it's something that so many
04:14 people can relate to. They see migrants, they know migrants, they can imagine a little bit
04:17 what that's like. For Maloney, it's a very key issue that fits with her strategy of finding
04:23 things that connect with voters and don't alienate financial markets. With the Italian
04:28 economy struggling, Maloney has to find a way to do things that maintain her control
04:33 of the Italian government, look for ways to help the Italian economy out of this and avoid
04:39 spooking financial markets.
04:41 And Maloney, of course, finding it a little bit harder to govern. It was a little bit
04:44 easier perhaps before she got into the role. It's not an easy role she has had to play.
04:48 I'm looking at yourself because of course you're from Sicily. So the story is probably
04:52 much closer to your heart than a lot of our viewers. Perhaps what's your take on the situation
04:56 and on the government's handling of it?
04:58 I think that Maloney quickly realised that she cannot do this alone. She has promised
05:02 during the election campaign last year that less migrants would be coming into Italy and
05:07 this is not the case after one year into government. She has to do something and indeed the fact
05:11 that the borderline came to Lampedusa was a strong signal. But more has to be done because
05:17 I have the feeling that this is all a deja vu. The 10 point plans, the visit to Lampedusa,
05:22 the visit to these migrants hubs, the point is that the other governments are not taking
05:27 this into their own hands.
05:29 Is it because it's out of mind perhaps, out of sight? And of course, Georgia Maloney is
05:33 among many world leaders over in New York this week and she's bringing that strong message
05:37 as well to that platform that she is feeling very much alone. And she said, of course,
05:42 very clearly when she was standing alongside Ursula von der Leyen that it's not a solidarity
05:47 gesture of Europe towards Italy but actually it's a responsibility towards the country
05:52 because these are the borders of Italy but they're also the borders of Europe. But this
05:56 message seems to be falling on deaf ears, Rebecca Christie.
06:00 It's a tough situation the EU has to confront because it's also looking at enlargement and
06:03 as the EU expands eastward there'll be a whole lot of other people that one has to integrate
06:08 into the EU and into EU values. A hundred years ago immigration and border crossing
06:14 was seen as an engine of economic growth but now it's something that voters are afraid
06:18 of.
06:19 Voters are afraid of and of course it probably doesn't get you many votes either if you have
06:22 policies in favour as well of welcoming more.
06:25 Of course in democracy votes are always important but at the moment we have a major crisis and
06:29 have to deal with it and this is not a partisan thing. I agree with Mr Albania that we have
06:34 déjà vu of many kinds, especially in terms of content because what the Commission's President
06:39 has proposed in her ten points plan in Lampedusa is more or less what we have been negotiating
06:43 on for three years but it's still not yet done.
06:46 It was a Commission's proposal which was good but the Commission didn't set the right priorities
06:49 in the past.
06:50 Now she's set the right priorities by responding to Miloni's invite and this is why I appreciate
06:55 the Miloni approach but also this new priority setting by von der Leyen.
06:59 It's late during the legislature to set the right priorities but obviously she's doing
07:02 it now and if it leads to a result it will be good.
07:06 I want to dive more into that ten point plan which I have right here beside me but first
07:10 just a bit of context for our viewers on that island of Lampedusa.
07:14 They might not be as familiar with it as you are.
07:16 Have you been to the island?
07:17 I've never been myself but of course coming from Sicily I'm quite acquainted, I have people
07:22 that are friends that live there.
07:24 The situation is difficult for the people that live there.
07:28 Of course we have mixed feelings.
07:29 There are those that are welcoming, I mean the Italian people, Sicilians, we are welcoming
07:34 people but there is still always a limit.
07:36 I mean seeing the double of the population or as much as the population of migrants coming
07:40 in, 7, 8,000, this is a situation that has definitely reached its limits.
07:44 A record breaking amount of people coming in, 12,000 people I believe in just six days
07:48 on an island of an area of 20 square kilometres and inhabitants are just over 6,462.
07:56 We also have to say that regarding to Miloni it's also interesting to know that most of
08:01 the governments that they are opposing migrants relocations are the governments that are in
08:05 the same political families of Miloni herself.
08:07 I'm thinking about Poland, I'm thinking about Orban, so probably the talks have to be also
08:13 among political families and not just thinking about the next election cycle but really thinking
08:18 about the European Union.
08:19 That's a huge difference, I agree with you but you can't imagine a Hungarian Prime Minister
08:22 or a Polish Prime Minister at the moment who would immediately invite the Commission's
08:26 President and also ask for her responsibility.
08:30 This is the way to act, this is the way to cooperate because we will only solve this
08:34 issue on a European level via cooperation, not only via criticising each other.
08:39 But this is my point.
08:40 And Fonda didn't have another chance to go there and she...
08:42 But where is the cooperation?
08:44 I don't see any cooperation.
08:45 Well, responding...
08:46 I mean we supposedly have, if you look at the 10 point plan, you have this voluntary
08:50 solidarity mechanism, 18 member states have signed up but apart from Portugal this week
08:54 I haven't seen anyone saying that they'll step in and help out, Rebecca.
08:58 It's really hard for Europe because accepting people who don't look like you and who don't
09:03 come from the same culture of you is something that people are really struggling with right
09:07 now.
09:08 And you see politically, Meloni has a lot of incentives to maintain ties with Europe,
09:13 again to keep financial markets happy.
09:15 Financial markets always react poorly when Italy distanced itself from the European centre.
09:19 On the other hand, her political base is very much these nationalist, more closed-minded
09:24 political orientations.
09:26 And interesting what you say there because I've seen as well over in Germany, the Greens
09:29 are taking a step perhaps towards the middle or towards the right in the sense that they're
09:33 making public statements that they want to see asylum seekers sent back very fast, taking
09:37 a different approach perhaps to the past.
09:40 But just let's talk to you about this voluntary solidarity mechanism.
09:43 Austria, I understand, is not one of these countries?
09:47 Austria has contributed among two others, in total three, Sweden, Germany and Austria
09:52 most since the beginning of the immigration crisis 2015.
09:56 Austria has the largest number of positive asylum results all over the world per capita.
10:03 But each country is affected differently.
10:05 Greece, Spain, Italy are affected as border countries.
10:09 Austria, Germany, Sweden are affected because people want to go there.
10:13 What we need is this mandatory solidarity mechanism and this is the main part of the
10:18 immigration package which is still not decided on on European level.
10:22 There were ideological hurdles within the European Parliament.
10:26 There was disinterest by some member states in the European Council of Member States'
10:31 government.
10:32 So this is the kind of cooperation I meant before, that the different levels, also the
10:36 level of government in a country like Italy and the European Commission have to cooperate
10:41 and to be very frank.
10:42 If it would not be next year election and Ursula von der Leyen wanting to become Commission's
10:47 president again, I don't know whether she would have responded positively to Giorgio
10:51 Meloni's invite, but now she's acting.
10:53 Now she's doing, now she's setting right priorities and this is due also to our pressure
10:58 from the European Parliament over a long time, long period of time now.
11:02 So I see, I would say I see a reason for optimism at the moment after many years of lacking
11:08 decisions.
11:09 So the problem there is the word voluntary, it should be mandatory.
11:13 Because of course until it's voluntary every government, every head of state will think
11:17 about its electoral base.
11:18 And it's also multi-dimensional, I mean solidarity means to take care of asylum-seeking procedures,
11:24 to take care of returns.
11:26 Solidarity means to contribute jointly to Frontex and other missions to protecting the
11:31 borders and solidarity especially means to fight disinformation and the smuggling business
11:37 of human trafficking which leads to these suffering people you've just seen also in
11:40 this program again.
11:41 I mean people are suffering on the routes and people are concerned within Europe about
11:47 migration generally.
11:48 Solidarity, I mean this word we've heard so many times before but it doesn't really
11:52 translate into anything right in reality.
11:55 What's your take?
11:56 Europe is still uncomfortable with non-white immigration.
11:59 It's something that they step around, they say oh it's culture, it's you know it's the
12:03 flood, it's where they're coming, it's the boats.
12:06 But a lot of it has to do with cultures here not being used to having people who don't
12:11 look like them wanting to join their culture, learn their language and fit into society.
12:16 Making excuses why these people won't fit is not a good solution.
12:20 There needs to be a much more optimistic welcome of why they can, will and should fit and it
12:25 will help the European economy to have these people.
12:28 That's a message that often gets lost but these people have the potential to bring benefits
12:32 not just burdens.
12:33 Interesting point there.
12:34 Well look what we said earlier for a lot of us here in Europe watching the image from
12:38 Italy it feels very very very far away but of course for Italians it is very close to
12:43 home.
12:44 That's why we sent our Rome correspondent, that's Georgia Orlandi, to the streets of
12:48 Rome to ask people how they felt about the situation and also what they want to see done
12:52 to actually address it.
12:57 I live quite close to Rome's main railway station.
13:00 When I get there the situation is terrible.
13:03 Most of them sleep rough and it's not safe at all.
13:06 But I also understand that it's difficult for everyone.
13:09 These people pay the highest price.
13:11 They live in a foreign country and they don't know their fate.
13:16 I don't think we are able to stop migration flows.
13:19 They are part of our history.
13:20 They have always been there and they have left a visible mark on past civilizations.
13:25 I think those who are in charge of managing the situation should be responsible for what
13:29 happens.
13:33 Italy is left alone when it comes to facing this migration crisis.
13:37 So the country needs help.
13:39 Even though Lampedusa's location encourages migrant arrivals, I think Malta should do
13:44 more to help, as well as other member states within the European Union.
13:52 More countries should make their ports available to facilitate landings.
14:00 It feels like just this non-stop saga.
14:03 I see it a bit more optimistic, even if it's absolutely right what you state.
14:08 And it's overdue for a long time.
14:10 But we had a decision in the parliament in March this year.
14:14 We had a decision among the immigration ministers, the Home Affairs Ministers in May this year.
14:19 And now it's really time to decide on maybe the recent crisis and also von der Leyen traveling
14:25 a few days after the State of the Union speech where migration didn't play a major role.
14:29 But then due to the crisis, traveling and pointing out the 10 points plan, which is
14:33 actually more or less what we have been negotiating on for three years already.
14:36 Now is the time for a decision.
14:38 And I push for that parliamentarily, but also member states, governments and the Commission
14:41 should do that.
14:42 I'd like to talk as well about the 10th point in this 10 point plan, which is the EU Tunisia
14:47 pact that was signed a couple of weeks ago by Ursula von der Leyen, Giorgio Maloney and
14:52 Mark Rutte.
14:53 Rebecca, that deal was quite rushed in.
14:55 And we've seen quite a strong reaction coming from Joseph Borre and a letter seemingly that
15:00 was written as well from a number of member states calling it expressing incomprehension
15:05 was the word and concerns about this deal.
15:08 It shows the discomfort the EU has with taking decisive action in a tough situation in general
15:15 when there's a crisis in Europe.
15:16 If it's not clear what the course of action is, the impulse is to stand still lest you
15:20 make a mistake, lest you make a wrong move.
15:22 This makes the problems even worse.
15:24 Usually just want to agree with you and make the point.
15:27 It makes the problem worse.
15:28 It was a copy and paste from what happened with Syria and Turkey.
15:32 You know, the same deal.
15:33 I thought that it would work in the same way with Tunisia, but it doesn't.
15:36 And it will not.
15:37 So, yeah, but migration is not the same.
15:40 Turkey wants to be called Turkey now, as we know, and I respect that.
15:43 And Turkey misused the deal for threatening us, as we know, a few years ago.
15:47 But generally, the deal was important and the deal remains important.
15:50 You do get to a point where plan beats no plan.
15:55 And the one thing you can say about this is at least they did something.
15:57 They took some kind of action and decisions are going to have to be taken.
16:00 And they are probably not going to be perfect, because if there were a perfect and easy solution,
16:05 we'd be doing it.
16:06 But interesting, the perception of the media, because I've been reading a lot of media reports
16:09 this week on the situation in Lampedusa.
16:11 Matteo, are Italians supportive of this kind of deal with Tunisia?
16:16 I think that Italians are supportive of any solution that stops seeing people coming to
16:21 Mediterranean shores, to their own shores, and whatever, whatever it's...
16:27 One of the people interviewed in the street said that Italy is left alone.
16:30 Well, that's the feeling that most Italians have.
16:32 But not just now, but in the last 10 years, we have the feeling that Italy has always
16:36 been left alone, that then there are talks, there are summits, there are special meetings
16:39 at the EU level, but then nothing or little is done at the EU level, really to make migration
16:45 a European problem of the Irish, of the Polish, of the Danish, and of the Italians as well.
16:51 And is that a feeling or a message that you have strong in your head and you take as well
16:54 to voters as you campaign, as I believe you'd like to run again next year?
16:58 This is also why I emphasise that this is a European endeavour, a common European endeavour
17:02 to face the challenges that come along with migration.
17:05 Actually, we are very attractive, we're a very attractive part of the world, and other
17:08 attractive parts, such as Australia, Canada, US and others, they deal with migration much
17:14 better than we do.
17:15 Then why can't we manage migration?
17:16 I mean, as Rebecca Christie perfectly pointed out earlier, we also need it.
17:20 We have labour shortages.
17:21 We heard it last week in Ursula von der Leyen's speech in Strasbourg.
17:24 There's a massive gap in the market that needs to be filled.
17:27 We have quite the other way around situation in Europe.
17:30 We face migration of that kind, but we don't, are competitive in the, let's say, global
17:37 competition on workers, and skilled workers especially.
17:41 Also when migration is used as a tool for propaganda, like in Poland there was going
17:45 to be a referendum on relocation of migrants, that doesn't help the debate.
17:49 That doesn't help the debate.
17:50 The distinction between good migrants and less desirable migrants is not helpful in
17:56 the global scheme.
17:57 It's very tempting for voters, and this is not a criticism of you, but it is a thing
18:00 that comes up.
18:01 That's not what I said or what I ever would say.
18:02 Hailing from North America, you really see that that's usually a code for racism, and
18:07 that's something that Europe has a very poor track record of confronting head on, and something
18:11 that the other places in the world have had to address, even though they haven't always
18:15 done it well.
18:16 And this is the elephant in the room.
18:17 Nobody's doing more than Europe is doing in terms of humanitarian aid.
18:20 Nobody's doing more on earth in terms of asylum, and as you know, only 20% even less
18:25 receive asylum status in Europe.
18:28 The others are not even granted asylum.
18:30 So they are tempted by smugglers, by human trafficking, by disinformation to come here.
18:36 But also by racist attacks.
18:38 We've seen reports from NGOs in Tunisia, and we have spoken as well here at Euronews to
18:41 people in Tunisia, and they have seen it with their own eyes.
18:45 Racist attacks against many people, and that's also seeing why they're fleeing.
18:48 That's something that has to be fought in each and every kind, like disinformation,
18:53 like human trafficking, and each kind of racism.
18:56 But we also have to face the labor market issues due to the lack of workers, especially
19:01 skilled workers, which is a completely different sphere.
19:04 We have to deal with both.
19:05 We have to grant asylum.
19:06 I really want to push back against this idea that it's a different sphere, because you
19:10 have workers who come in.
19:12 People can become trained.
19:14 People can become trained.
19:16 And also, you have a situation where you need just a bigger workforce, and you need people
19:22 who are available to do the jobs that are available.
19:25 If you want to have a more competitive Europe, you need to have workers, you need to have
19:28 companies.
19:29 You can't sit here and pick and choose, oh, we want to have a global giant, but not like
19:34 that.
19:35 You have to take the whole package.
19:36 Thank you, Christy.
19:37 We're going to have to stop you there.
19:38 A conversation we will inevitably, of course, come back to and keep our viewers informed.
19:41 Thank you so much to you all.
19:43 And you stay with us, because after the break, we'll be hearing from how in about 10 years,
19:47 we'll be able to take our local authorities to court for air pollution.
19:50 Stay with us.
19:50 [MUSIC PLAYING]
19:59 Welcome back to Brussels, My Love, Euronews' weekly talk show.
20:04 I'm Maeve McMahon.
20:05 And along with Lucas Mandel, Rebecca Christy, and Matteo Albania, we're talking through
20:09 some of the news stories of the week.
20:12 And one that caught our eye, given that this week also marked International Car Free Day,
20:16 was a vote in the European Parliament on air quality to help Europe achieve its dream of
20:21 zero pollution by 2050.
20:23 363 MEPs voted in favor, 226 against, and 46 abstained on the vote, which sets a stricter
20:31 2035 limit for pollutants like nitrogen dioxide, so that air quality here in the European Union
20:37 is not harmful to health and biodiversity.
20:39 Lucas Mandel, I'm turning to you, the MEP here around the table, because your party
20:43 voted against, but you voted in favor.
20:46 So very divisive issue for your party, like a lot of these green files.
20:50 Well, the European People's Party group decided to vote against because of very strict, or
20:57 in my view, unrealistically strict goals, which is usually in the European Parliament
21:02 we always set the bar very, very high, which can't be achieved.
21:07 But OK, there is a direction to go.
21:09 In this case, I understand the colleagues who voted against.
21:11 I voted in favor because I see air pollution as one of the major, major problems of our
21:17 time, especially in urban centers, especially in our kind of civilization.
21:22 And this is why the general approach to fight air pollution within the EU, but also in other
21:26 parts of Europe which are not yet in the EU, by the way, where the situation is sometimes
21:30 even worse.
21:31 And this week we saw an extensive report by The Guardian.
21:34 Our colleagues over at The Guardian, they had an investigative report about air pollution
21:37 and the impacts it's having on our health.
21:39 They said it was pretty detrimental in Eastern Europe and also in Italy, in your country.
21:43 Do you welcome this vote from the Parliament?
21:45 Personally, I do welcome this vote.
21:47 I think that more has to be done in this regard.
21:49 I think that we start even late.
21:51 But a balance has to be found.
21:52 I mean, a lot of the Green Deal reforms and law proposed by the Commission, it is true
21:57 that they set the bar probably too high.
22:00 There is an industry sector affected by this.
22:04 How will this impact industry, Rebecca Christie?
22:07 It's really tough with the environment to find something that makes an impact on air
22:11 pollution, that has the democratic support to actually get done, and that will allow
22:16 people to continue to get to their jobs and get where they're going.
22:19 We see in Brussels this week with all of the anti-car legislation, that's great if you're
22:24 able-bodied, if you're able to ride a bicycle, if you're trying to get around multiple children,
22:28 if you're disabled, if you're unable to drive.
22:31 You need alternative forms of transport.
22:32 And so the emphasis has to go on all of the different angles, on improving train access,
22:38 on improving public transit, on finding ways to help people get what they need and not
22:42 just tell them what they can't do.
22:43 Well, in just a minute, I want to show you a clip.
22:46 We spoke to the motorcycle industry to see how they're feeling about all this legislation.
22:50 But first, we caught up with an NGO as well, Transport Environment, just to find out what
22:54 the quality was like of air right here in Brussels in the EU quarter.
22:58 Take a listen now to Alex Keynes.
23:00 Air pollution is a silent and often invisible killer.
23:04 We know that it's responsible for over 300,000 premature deaths across the EU every single
23:09 year.
23:10 You are getting much higher, much more dangerous levels of toxic air pollution around less
23:16 affluent areas, poorer areas.
23:18 And that's actually because of the much higher density of traffic, because you have significantly
23:22 higher emissions of toxic NO2 and particulate emissions, which is coming from the cars that
23:26 you see around us now.
23:28 And also in the area we are in now, near the European quarter, you also are getting these
23:33 very high concentrations of NO2.
23:36 Alex Keynes there.
23:37 It's worth pointing out, he did say the situation had improved as well over the last couple
23:40 of years in Brussels, that it's gradually getting a little bit better.
23:44 But how to address that issue, he said, of in some neighborhoods, it's extremely serious.
23:48 Well, I mean, recently, Brussels even launched the Good Move plan that has seen some improvement.
23:53 I still think that more has to be done.
23:55 The public transport is not well developed.
23:59 Other alternative ways of moving, they're not well developed.
24:02 Company cars are very well spread.
24:04 And this is another problem that adds traffic to the streets of Brussels.
24:08 So you have to give people valid alternatives.
24:11 And Lucas Mandl, we've seen France and Germany call on the Commission, if you like, for a
24:16 legislative pause.
24:18 What's the feeling over in Austria?
24:19 And what are the conversations that you're having with your voters about all these legislative
24:23 files linked to the Green Deal?
24:24 Well, actually, we have to see the target.
24:27 It's clear to fight climate change.
24:30 And we have to remain with that.
24:31 But we have to see maybe two factors.
24:33 The one is, it's all about extra burden, extra bureaucracy, extra administrative issues.
24:38 But it has to be a lot of innovation, sharing economy, innovation in terms of academia,
24:45 science, research, development.
24:47 That's one thing.
24:48 The other thing is, we need a global approach, because we are even less than 5% of world's
24:52 population.
24:53 How can we have a global approach if we can't even agree on anything here as 27?
24:58 Yeah, but this is it.
24:59 I mean, humanity has to fight climate change jointly all together, because otherwise we
25:03 will not fight climate change at all.
25:05 But we will weaken Europe time and again if we do it alone.
25:09 So we need this global outreach.
25:10 We need more strength to the outside.
25:11 This is also connected to the other issues we've been talking about.
25:14 It touches everything.
25:15 You see that with this debate with China over the electric batteries.
25:18 We need affordable electric cars.
25:20 We also need strong European industry.
25:23 How do you have both of these things at the same time?
25:25 It's tough.
25:26 And electric mobility is not, of course, the silver bullet either.
25:29 According to Dolf Willigers, he is the head of the European Motorcycle Association.
25:35 And our Paul Lerach-Hoppeno had the opportunity to ask him about how he felt about all these
25:39 files and how they could dramatically change his life and his lifestyle.
25:43 I think that we need more green regulations because, of course, the planet and the climate
25:49 change, you cannot deny that.
25:50 Does that mean that we should all switch to electric?
25:54 I would say no.
25:55 I don't think that electricity, electric motorcycles are the silver bullet.
25:59 I don't think that we should give up the combustion engine.
26:01 We should give it up partially for urban areas.
26:05 But at the moment, maybe in future sometimes, but for now, we still need combustion engines
26:12 for longer distances.
26:13 He has a point there, right, about the electric vehicles.
26:16 I guess to be open for where still the combustion engine will be needed will be important for
26:24 Europe in many different areas.
26:26 But we need as much as electricity as possible in our mobility, sharing economy I already
26:31 mentioned.
26:32 So let's remain open.
26:33 Let's also remain open for research and development.
26:36 I trust the scientists.
26:38 Mateo?
26:39 Yes, and let's not burden national government with more regulations.
26:43 Also there is now the energy efficiency building regulations.
26:45 I think that this green transition is good, but it has to be well thought.
26:50 We cannot just set deadlines and ban everything because we have to do everything now.
26:55 It is to be really well thought and not be a burden for companies and for enterprises.
26:59 Is that the message that you're getting?
27:00 It's a burden.
27:01 Are people you're speaking to happy to see the back of perhaps the former commissioner
27:06 who's in charge of climate, Franz Zimmermann?
27:08 Yes, I think that nowadays Europe and the Green Deal is seen as a burden, as extra regulatory,
27:13 as extra weight on their shoulders.
27:17 And I mean, if I think about many countries where they have, for example, very old buildings
27:20 and now they are afraid that they need to renew them, who is going to pay for that?
27:24 And then the heat pumps and so forth.
27:25 I mean, it's going to be it's a wave.
27:27 OK, I'm going to have to stop you there.
27:29 Thank you so much, Mateo.
27:30 Thank you so much, Rebecca, as well.
27:31 And thank you so much, Lucas Mandl, for being with us here.
27:34 And thank you so much for watching.
27:35 See you soon here on Euronews.
27:37 Hello there, welcome back to Brussels, my love, Euronews' weekly talk show.
27:50 I'm Maeve McMahon.
27:51 Now, this week, a big talking point here in Brussels was the announcement of the 2023
27:57 nominees for the European Parliament's Freedom of Thought Sakharov Prize.
28:02 That's a prestigious human rights award prize awarded in the past to the likes of Malala
28:07 and Alexei Navalny.
28:08 It's, of course, up to political groups to forward names.
28:11 And on the list this year are Massa Amini from the Woman Life Freedom Movement in Iran,
28:17 the Ugandan climate justice activist Vanessa Nakate, abortion rights activists from Poland
28:23 and the billionaire and ex owner Elon Musk.
28:27 Have you seen this list and what's your reaction, Rebecca?
28:30 The idea that we should privilege white male rich guy speech and reward that even more
28:38 than the global economy already does is pretty baffling to me.
28:42 I hope this goes nowhere.
28:43 Mateo?
28:44 I absolutely agree.
28:45 I think it's a publicity stunt put forward by the group Identity Democracy.
28:48 I think that this prize has been awarded to the Belarus opposition, to the people of Ukraine,
28:54 given to a billionaire that has done not very much about the freedom of speech in its new
28:58 social media acts.
29:00 I think it's really just a publicity stunt to talk about it.
29:04 Lucas Mandl, what was the word on the corridors this week of the parliament?
29:07 I supported the idea of Massa Amini to grant her the Sakharov Prize from the very beginning
29:12 when it was just an idea among a small group in the European Parliament.
29:17 And I don't care whether Elon Musk would be man, white or rich.
29:21 It's just the wrong laureate for something like that.
29:24 Frankly, when I saw the list, I first thought it would be a bad joke.
29:28 Well, I'll tell our viewers why his name was on the list.
29:32 It was actually the far right wing group Identity and Democracy that threw his name into the
29:36 hat and we wanted to find out why they thought he deserved it.
29:40 So we sent our Paul La Rocque Hoppeno to speak to the French MEP and party member Thierry
29:44 Mariani.
29:45 I think he's a symbol for freedom of thought.
29:49 But in a character, you have multiple facets.
29:52 What we are judging here with the prize is, is there something in danger?
29:56 For me, today, the symbol is freedom of thought.
29:58 You can think differently than most people.
30:01 And the one that for now paradoxically embodies this freedom of thought is Elon Musk, whatever
30:06 his character is.
30:07 You know, there will always be people who will demonize those who want this freedom
30:10 to continue to exist.
30:12 My freedom of thought, they won't have it.
30:14 Thierry Mariani there, very clear on his reasons.
30:20 I said it was a bad joke, but OK, we have to deal with it.
30:24 It was a proposal and it meant it was meant to be serious.
30:27 Just want to make an important point.
30:30 It's not freedom of thought provision.
30:33 If you provide like it would be nutrition, food on the same level as poison, when something
30:39 is toxic or when something is good, it's a difference.
30:42 And if you provide something on the same level, which is toxic or which is positive, it's
30:47 not a provision for for for freedom of thought.
30:51 And this is what Elon Musk's platform is doing right now.
30:55 And this is what we even fight with our endeavor against disinformation, against foreign interests.
30:59 Rebecca, are you still on Twitter or X now, as it's called?
31:03 I am.
31:04 I use it much less since Musk has made it easier for Nazis and trolls to express their
31:10 thoughts and made it harder for people who are targets of abuse and pylons to continue
31:14 to express themselves by removing all the content moderation.
31:17 It's the wrong direction.
31:18 Absolutely.
31:19 I second this vote.
31:20 It's the wrong direction.
31:21 There are other social networks that they are growing and they are expanding Macedon
31:24 threads from from Instagram.
31:26 So I think, you know, there are other places where you can discuss, you can share your
31:31 thoughts in a civil manner.
31:33 I think that X is going towards another direction.
31:36 They have the freedom, the idea in the market, the group has the freedom to propose Elon
31:40 Musk and we have the freedom to criticize it.
31:42 We won't find out until October, I believe, who the last three nominees are.
31:46 And then we'll have to wait until December to hear who the winners are.
31:50 You said earlier you would like to see the Iranians win.
31:52 Of course, last week we saw...
31:54 For the reason that she herself, I mean, she gave her life for freedom of thought, but
32:00 also for the whole movement for women, freedom, Iran.
32:04 Thank you so much, Lucas Mandl.
32:05 Thank you so much, Rebecca Christie, for being here.
32:07 And thank you as well to Matteo Albania for being our guest as well this week.
32:10 And thank you so much for watching.
32:12 If you have any comments on any of the stories that we covered or anything that you'd like
32:16 us to dive into, reach out.
32:18 Our email address is brusselsmylove@euronews.com.
32:22 You can also find us on Instagram.
32:24 See you soon here on Euronews.
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