In the first episode of UAE Trailblazers podcast we talk to Ahmed Kazim, co-founder of Project Chai Walla on how he shifted gears to get into the competitive F&B industry, the trip to India that changed the trajectory of his career, why Karak, and why now
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00:00 (upbeat music)
00:02 - Hello, hello, Ahmed Kazim.
00:07 Thank you so much for joining us on the podcast.
00:09 - Thank you for having me.
00:11 - First of all, welcome to Khaleesh Times.
00:13 We haven't had you on before,
00:14 so this is a different one
00:16 where we have the podcast set up here in Project Chaiwalla.
00:20 - Thank you for coming.
00:20 I'm glad you said Project Chaiwalla correctly
00:23 'cause a lot of people confuse that.
00:24 - How do they say it?
00:25 - Project Chaiwalla.
00:26 (laughing)
00:27 - Chaiwalla.
00:28 - Chaiwalla. (laughing)
00:30 - All right, amazing.
00:30 So why, Khadak, out of all the F&B products here in the UAE,
00:35 it is saturated with tea products?
00:39 Like why go there?
00:41 - So before we become Chaiwallas,
00:43 myself and my business partner, Justin,
00:46 we're actually ex-financial consultants
00:48 and we used to discuss a lot of business opportunities
00:51 during our chai break or tea break.
00:54 So we actually noticed,
00:56 although you mentioned it's a saturated market,
01:00 the mid to high segment is not saturated at all.
01:03 And we noticed there's a gap in the market
01:05 that caters to this crowd.
01:07 So we decided to do a bit of more in-depth research
01:11 on that category,
01:13 competitors here in the UAE, globally, et cetera.
01:18 So we noticed there is a gap that we can kind of fulfill.
01:21 And I guess for the emotional part,
01:25 we grew up with, my daily breakfast was chai and toast.
01:29 And when we grew up a bit,
01:31 whoever got his driving license would stroll around Dubai,
01:35 sometimes beyond Dubai,
01:36 just to get a cup of chai from anywhere, right?
01:40 So that was kind of a midnight stroll.
01:42 And we just woke up with chai and ended up with chai.
01:44 So it was always revolving around tea somehow.
01:48 - Yeah, that's like the nostalgic part
01:51 when you get some chai from the cow
01:52 and get some khadak and you're like.
01:53 - But I guess more the business side
01:54 and that's exactly why we're in,
01:56 like there is a passionate side,
01:58 but there's also a commercial side
01:59 where there is a market to cater to.
02:02 And another thing to elaborate on
02:04 is that we're creating an omni-channel experience
02:06 where we do have our retail cafes.
02:09 We've also launched our consumer package goods.
02:12 - We're gonna get into that just a little bit later.
02:14 However, can you just go back and tell me
02:15 what is mid to high segment?
02:18 Is that what you said?
02:19 - Yeah, so yeah, mid to,
02:20 it's more or less mid to high disposal income.
02:23 - Oh, right, right, okay.
02:24 - Demographic.
02:24 - So fancier khadak.
02:26 (laughing)
02:27 - It's not fancier, it's actually,
02:29 so we use, so I'll tell you,
02:30 we use premium ingredients and we use fresh milk
02:33 the way it's authentically done in Southeast Asia.
02:37 - Okay.
02:38 - Oh, sorry, South Asia, sorry.
02:39 So that's how we're brewing it.
02:41 So we went to this,
02:41 so the journey is after we did our research,
02:43 we hopped on a plane,
02:44 we went to the capital of tea, which is Calcutta,
02:47 we went to Darjeeling,
02:48 just to experience how tea is within the gardens
02:50 and how it's done in the streets.
02:52 - Amazing.
02:53 - And we wanted to bring that experience into,
02:55 and modernize it in a city like Dubai.
02:57 - Amazing, so you went with your business partner
03:00 and you guys did a whole excursion around India.
03:04 How long did you stay there for?
03:06 - So quite a bit, actually,
03:07 and we did multiple trips.
03:08 So we'd go to Bombay, Delhi, et cetera.
03:12 - Focusing on the tea?
03:14 - Yeah, yeah.
03:15 - Or was it for something else?
03:15 - No, it's focusing on tea.
03:16 And then the culture behind it as well,
03:18 which is very important for us.
03:20 So the streets, so we wake up at dawn
03:22 and then stroll the street, different chai stalls
03:25 within, let's say Calcutta,
03:27 where the city is still asleep.
03:29 So it's a beautiful experience
03:30 and we kind of grasped a lot from there.
03:34 - Coming back here, like you're a young entrepreneur,
03:38 like how old were you when you went to do that
03:40 and you came back here?
03:41 Let's talk about the entrepreneurship side of it
03:43 a little bit.
03:44 - I think I was 27, he was a bit older than me.
03:48 - Okay.
03:48 - A few years older.
03:49 - Had you been doing something before that?
03:51 Like how'd you been working full-time?
03:52 - So I was a financial consultant, right?
03:54 - Oh, you were a financial consultant.
03:55 - So I was a, I had a completely different world.
03:58 - Yeah, that's so different.
03:58 - You know, (indistinct) every day and whatnot,
04:01 dealing with a lot of financial institutions.
04:04 So that was kind of, but we come,
04:06 at least I come from a family of merchants and traders.
04:09 - Okay.
04:10 - So I guess somehow, subliminally,
04:13 there was a message that was just kicking in every day.
04:16 - Was there like a trigger, like something that you're like,
04:19 okay, I want to get into F&B?
04:20 Or was it the trigger?
04:21 - No, no, no, actually F&B is not exactly what we wanted.
04:24 It's more like a business opportunity that can be scaled.
04:29 And I think, so an important thing to highlight for us
04:33 is that we are, so Justin is from,
04:35 he's Indian, but he's raised in Dubai.
04:37 So he's a Dubai kid, just like I am.
04:39 - Yeah.
04:40 - So we wanted to create a business or a brand out of Dubai
04:45 and scale that globally to put Dubai on the map
04:49 from that aspect.
04:50 There are a lot of businesses and brands
04:52 that can come out of the region
04:53 that are not really franchised,
04:55 they're actually localized that are homegrown
04:58 and scaled abroad.
04:59 So that is kind of our goal.
05:01 And we thought Chai is an excellent platform to do that.
05:06 Especially from an omni-channel point of view.
05:08 - What is it, what do you mean by omni-channel?
05:09 - So it's multiple channels.
05:11 So as I mentioned, the retail cafes
05:12 and the consumer packaged goods.
05:14 And the consumer packaged goods, it's direct to consumer,
05:17 which is online, the websites, Amazons and Noons.
05:19 - Okay.
05:20 - And offline, whether it's through retail supermarkets,
05:24 cafes, et cetera, et cetera.
05:25 - So when you're talking about the retail part,
05:27 you're talking about like the machines,
05:29 the packets and stuff like that,
05:30 the stuff that can be ordered,
05:32 like delivered to like people to their homes?
05:34 - Exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah.
05:35 So we do have three in one instant Karak Chai, right?
05:38 Which is a premium, obviously,
05:41 version of what's available in the market.
05:43 - Yeah.
05:44 - And it's done very well.
05:45 We have our own blends as well, and we have our B2B.
05:49 - Okay, what's that?
05:49 - So we supply a lot of hotels,
05:51 corporates, et cetera, et cetera.
05:53 - Right.
05:54 - With our Chai machine.
05:55 - Delving a little bit deeper into like the transition
05:58 from corporate to like being a full-time entrepreneur.
06:01 How did it feel at the beginning?
06:02 Like, did you have to pitch for investments?
06:04 Like, where did the money come from?
06:06 Sorry, is that too forward?
06:11 - It's fine.
06:12 No, so we bootstrapped for a long while.
06:14 - Okay. - Right?
06:15 And there's no aha moment.
06:16 So a lot of people think there's an aha moment.
06:18 At least for me, there was.
06:19 Or just, I don't think there was an aha moment.
06:21 - Yeah.
06:22 - So it was kind of a smooth transition
06:24 into creating a business, testing it in the market.
06:27 Okay, it's worth taking a shot by taking a risk
06:31 of our daily jobs into that.
06:35 So we did that very, I guess, smoothly.
06:38 Obviously, we're very conscious of the challenges
06:40 and the risks involved.
06:41 - Yeah.
06:42 - So we did raise, then, family and friends.
06:46 But then, last, okay, 2022,
06:50 we did get into a strategic partnership
06:52 with one of the prominent retail groups in the region
06:55 to really scale the brand as a UAE homegrown concept.
07:00 - Right.
07:01 - In the GCC and beyond that.
07:03 - Okay, amazing.
07:04 - They kind of fulfilled exactly the motto of,
07:06 or the vision of Project Chaiwala.
07:08 - Right.
07:09 - Of what we, me, myself, and Justin wanted to do.
07:11 - I always hear, like, the F&B industry
07:13 is always, like, the hardest to get into.
07:14 Like, were there any,
07:16 what were, like, your biggest struggles, like,
07:18 getting into it?
07:18 - I think our biggest challenge is the perception of chai.
07:23 - Perception of chai.
07:24 - Yeah, yeah, yeah.
07:25 - Okay.
07:26 - So people are used to that low category,
07:27 which is the one dirham, two dirham.
07:29 - The street.
07:29 - Yeah, yeah, and we're actually selling it at 5X that.
07:33 So, yeah, but it's premium ingredients,
07:35 it's fresh milk, it's all of that.
07:36 See, the moment they try it, they know the difference.
07:38 There's no doubt about it.
07:39 But just getting someone to purchase that is a challenge.
07:43 - Yes.
07:44 - So I think that is one of the--
07:45 - Or, like, wrap their head around it,
07:46 'cause they're just like,
07:47 "I'm used to getting this for this amount."
07:49 - Exactly, and they can buy any,
07:50 like, they could go to any of the fancy restaurants
07:52 and pay a lot of money for a steak or whatever.
07:56 - Yeah.
07:57 - However, when it comes to chai, he's like,
07:58 "No, I'm used to one dirham chai."
08:00 - Yeah, yeah, yeah.
08:01 - So that is, I think, one of the challenges.
08:02 But I think it comes with a territory.
08:05 We're not oblivious to it.
08:06 - Okay.
08:07 - But it's challenging.
08:08 - Okay, so does that remain a challenge,
08:10 or is that--
08:11 - Yeah, yeah, yeah.
08:12 - Beginning, okay.
08:13 - What about, like, flavor, just taste-wise?
08:15 I feel like people are also used to having a certain flavor,
08:19 certain ingredients, certain way of presenting the chai.
08:22 Is that a struggle, or have you standardized it?
08:24 - So it's not a struggle, because we said this is the,
08:27 it's the closest cup to the one you make at home.
08:31 - Okay.
08:32 - 'Cause the one we make at home is so customized, right?
08:34 So you can never match that, because you have it,
08:37 I say, with cardamom, I have it without,
08:39 I have extra sugar, et cetera.
08:41 So that's, we kind of found a very good middle ground
08:45 to serve that need.
08:46 - Okay, amazing.
08:48 So, what would you say, now you're in business
08:53 with your business partner, what are qualities you look for
08:57 when you're teaming up with people?
08:58 Say, whether they're collaborators, business partners,
09:01 just, yeah, people in business.
09:04 - There's no right answer, to be honest.
09:06 And I don't like to vocalize a lot of the things,
09:08 because each person is different.
09:11 - What are your values, in terms of business practices?
09:14 - I'm the usual, integrity, honesty,
09:16 trustworthy, et cetera, et cetera.
09:17 But the thing is, this is, it's very nice,
09:20 there are very nice, flashy words,
09:22 but it comes to the test when business happens.
09:26 - Exactly.
09:27 - And at different points, at different stages
09:29 of the business.
09:30 So that's very important for people to know.
09:32 At the beginning, it's rainbows and butterflies,
09:35 the biggest challenge--
09:36 - Excitement.
09:36 - When the rainbow comes through, what happens then?
09:40 That's when it really matters, actually.
09:42 So all these fancy words don't really mean much
09:44 if they're not really applied.
09:45 I say the best form of, I mean, this is a general motto
09:48 I go by, is that the best form of strategy is execution.
09:52 Maybe it has nothing to do with that,
09:55 with what we were saying, however, it kind of applies
09:58 to when push comes to shove, these words will only matter
10:02 during that, it's not on the strategy document,
10:04 yeah, we have integrity, we have values,
10:05 we have la, la, la, la.
10:06 - Yeah.
10:07 - Yeah, but come, let's put it to the test
10:08 and then we'll see.
10:09 - Let's put it to the test, exactly.
10:10 - Yeah, yeah.
10:11 - So what would you say is the most overlooked part
10:14 of having an F&B business?
10:16 - I would say as a business, it's just the details
10:19 that go into it and the intricacies
10:21 that people don't really see internally.
10:25 I think people just think that you just turn the kettle
10:28 and then you have chai, that's how it works,
10:29 but there's a huge process behind, before that,
10:33 just sourcing the right tea, getting the right chai,
10:37 that is trained, the training for the chai,
10:39 there's a lot of moving parts that people don't see, right?
10:41 - Right.
10:42 - And I also overlooked it when I wasn't in the industry,
10:45 'cause you sit in a restaurant, it's like,
10:46 I want this, I want that, I want that, right?
10:48 That's my order, but there's a lot of details
10:51 in the background that people don't see.
10:53 I guess people, you wish people would appreciate it more,
10:55 but that goes to any business as well,
10:57 including your kind of work, we think these guys
10:59 just sit in front of a--
11:00 - Yeah, yeah, exactly.
11:01 - Like a microphone.
11:02 - It's so effortless.
11:03 - Yeah, yeah, yeah.
11:05 - When you're hiring for people to work with you,
11:08 how do you, who do you hire first?
11:10 - For the role of the, let's say, this is a store
11:13 or a chai diner, what we call it,
11:15 versus a kiosk, it's very different.
11:17 - It is a chai diner.
11:18 - It is, let's see the other seats.
11:20 - Yeah, it's like snowing.
11:21 - So cool.
11:22 Tell us a little bit more about where you see yourself going
11:27 in the next couple of years.
11:29 Where do you see Project Chai Mama going?
11:31 Thank you.
11:32 - This is mine, that's yours.
11:33 This is a lemon iced tea.
11:35 - Okay.
11:36 - And this is my classic karak.
11:38 - So exciting.
11:39 - I'm old school, so I--
11:40 - Guys, I'll be honest.
11:41 I'll tell you exactly how it's here.
11:43 (laughing)
11:44 - You gotta cut that.
11:45 (laughing)
11:47 - This is really good.
11:48 Ooh, is this peach?
11:49 - This is lemon.
11:50 - Okay, really good.
11:52 10 out of 10.
11:54 - As I said before, the goal is to really scale the brand
11:59 from a, as an omni-channel chai concept,
12:03 starting from the UEE onto the GCC and beyond that.
12:08 So really globalizing this chai concept from two angles,
12:13 which is the retail cafes, which is your brick and mortar,
12:16 and then the consumer package goods.
12:18 And to become really that chai reference.
12:20 So if you think chai, think Chaiwala, Project Chaiwala.
12:23 There's a lot of Chaiwalas.
12:25 But the real--
12:26 - For people who are just starting out in this business,
12:28 like what advice would you give someone who's aspiring
12:31 to do exactly what you're doing?
12:33 - You think after we sell the business,
12:34 I'll be becoming a motivational speaker, right?
12:36 No, I'm not gonna do that.
12:38 - No?
12:38 You're not gonna--
12:39 - Don't quote me on it, but I don't think I will.
12:41 - Okay.
12:42 - So I don't know whether I would like to answer that,
12:46 'cause everybody has their own challenges.
12:48 - Yeah.
12:49 - And it's what works for you wouldn't work for me,
12:52 et cetera.
12:53 You can, again, say the typical things is that
12:56 perseverance, challenging, et cetera, et cetera.
13:00 Your talents is very different than mine.
13:02 - What would you wish someone had told you?
13:04 - Oh, I need to think about that.
13:08 - You're like, I needed a book.
13:09 - Shoe Dog, definitely.
13:11 - Shoe Dog.
13:12 - Nike story.
13:12 - Ooh.
13:13 - Because it really explains the details
13:17 of a challenging entrepreneurial life.
13:21 And then now it's over, I'd say, a $200 billion company.
13:25 So it's extremely inspiring and really, truly reflects
13:30 an entrepreneurial journey versus these, sorry,
13:35 what do they call them?
13:37 Self-help books or any of those.
13:39 These are just authors.
13:40 Come on, again, it goes back to execution, right?
13:43 If you do it, then you can speak about it.
13:44 - 'Cause he actually did it.
13:45 - And my only reflection on reading books
13:50 is that you'd know a true author
13:54 is someone who wouldn't tell you how it's done.
13:57 He'd just say, this will work for me,
13:59 for you it might be different.
14:00 Because it's not a one size fits all.
14:03 It really differs from one person to another.
14:06 - Do you think of opening up another cafe or store
14:08 that has nothing to do with Karak?
14:10 - No.
14:11 - Just Karak all the way?
14:12 - I really wanna focus, so I think we really want to focus
14:16 on creating the right experience and not losing focus.
14:21 'Cause that's the only way you could really scale.
14:23 - Yeah, I think you're right.
14:24 I think that's a good way to go about it.
14:25 - 'Cause it's very cool to do multiple things,
14:27 but I think specialization and really focusing
14:30 is what really gets you to the finish line.
14:33 - That's a good thing to have.
14:36 So basically, focus. - That's my formula.
14:38 I'm not implying to everybody, is it?
14:40 - Exactly.
14:41 Noah, thank you so much, Ahmed,
14:42 for being so candid and transparent.
14:44 And I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors.
14:47 - Thank you, thank you, thank you for having me.
14:49 - All right, guys, well, you heard it here first.
14:51 If you like this video, then do like, share, and subscribe.
14:55 And we'll see you on the next one.
14:56 - And grab some chai, actually.
14:57 - And grab some chai.
14:58 (both laughing)
15:00 (upbeat music)
15:03 (whooshing)